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President Obama: Small Change and the Mendacity of Hope
We are witnessing one of the fastest betrayals of the Democratic Party base in modern memory, as President Barack Obama and the Democratic Party leadership in the Senate slither away from a crucial constituency, the labor movement, and from support of labor's key legislative agenda item: passage of a bill, "The Employee Free Choice Act," which would restore a measure of fairness to labor relations.
Obama, who once supported the measure, and who campaigned saying he would sign the bill, has stood shamelessly silent as a massive corporate campaign mounted by such lobbying powerhouses as the US Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers and the National Retail Federation, hiding behind a fake "citizen action" organization called the Coalition for a Democratic Workplace (sic), has descended on Congress, and especially the Senate, where it has been working to peel away support for the bill among both Democrats and swing Republicans who had formally backed the measure.
The business lobbying campaign is having considerable success. Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), who is facing a Republican primary threat next year from a conservative challenger, has already announced that he will not support allowing the Employee Free Choice Act to go to the floor for debate and a vote in the Senate. As well, Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA), a former co-sponsor of the bill when it was last introduced in the Senate in 2007, now says she will not support it.
Since 60 votes are needed to move a bill past a Senate filibuster vowed by Republicans, Specter's defection is particularly damaging. It is also a betrayal of the many unions that have consistently backed this sometimes unpredictable Republican. But Feinstein's volte face is a particularly odious betrayal of her union backers in heavily unionized California. With senators like Feinstein caving in to corporate anti-union pressure, it makes it less likely that Senate Democrats would or could move to push the bill through past a filibuster by more confrontational means, such as attaching it to a budget bill that would not be subject to a filibuster-something Republicans did a number of times when they had control of the Senate between 2002 and 2006.
Clearly, the key turncoat in this sorry tale is Obama, whose presidential campaign would have sunk into oblivion early had it not been for powerful support from key elements of organized labor. It was also undeniably organized labor's army of grass roots backers that handed him victory, a majority of the popular vote, and a mandate for "change" in November over Republican John McCain.
If Obama were to strongly advocate for Employee Free Choice, he could clearly line up the backing needed to win its approval in both houses. Moderate Republicans like Specter need Obama's support for their own pet bills, and would have no hope of accomplishing anything, much less bringing home the bacon that they need in order to win re-election, without the president's willingness to support them. This gives Obama enormous leverage if he wants to use it. Wavering members of his own party, like Feinstein, would also certainly respond favorably to his calls for backing on a key issue for his base. But he has chosen instead to duck this issue.
Anyone who thought, as I once did out of an excess of optimism, that this president was positioned to act in this economic crisis as did the once equally reticent Franklin Roosevelt before him, should see clearly now that this president is not that same kind of bold risk-taker as FDR. Obama, rather, is following in the well-worn path of gutless political hacks before him like President Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, kowtowing to the wishes of the corporate elite and taking the Democratic grassroots for granted.
Employee Free Choice, which would have reversed 50 years of steady erosion of workers' organizing rights by ending employers' ability to stall off union elections for years, fire union organizers with impunity, and intimidate pro-union employees, by mandating that unions be recognized once they had obtained signature cards of support from over 50% of a work unit, is only one sign of this betrayal, of course, but it is a significant one.
Meanwhile, even as the Employee Free Choice bill is swirling ominously around the drain, a new study is giving the lie to the main argument the corporate lobbyists have been using to win over one-time backers like Specter and Feinstein: the fear-mongering claim that facilitating unionization in a recessionary time could lead to business failures.
Not so, says labor economist John DiNardo of the University of Michigan, who just released a study titled "Still Open for Business: Unionization Has No Causal Effect on Firm Closures," published by the Economic Policy Institute
DiNardo's study cites two surveys of similar enterprises at which workers either narrowly won union votes by 51% or narrowly lost by 49%. These surveys, covering the period 1961-2004, found "zero correlation" between a company's being unionized and the likelihood of its failing.
"I don't think business leaders or people like Sen. Specter are crazy," DiNardo says. "Many of them probably honestly do believe that having a union increases the likelihood of business failure, but the evidence is just not there. In fact, wages don't always even go up when a company is unionized."
DiNardo speculates that what really may cause many corporate managers and business owners to bitterly oppose unionization is not the fear of business failure or even perhaps of higher labor costs, but rather the fear of losing control over workers.
"Business managers in non-union firms are more like monarchs," he says. "With a union, a company becomes slightly more democratic, and the manager becomes more like a president."
That puts the name of the anti-Employee Free Choice Act business lobbying coalition in an interesting light. Obviously no corporate lobbying organization is actually in favor of democracy in the workplace, as their name deceptively implies.
This betrayal of workers is not the first betrayal of the Democratic base by Obama and Congressional Democrats. Scarcely two-thirds of the way through his first 100 days, Obama has also already betrayed a vow to end the Iraq War, having announced his intention to leave upwards of 50,000 troops in that benighted and blood-stained nation for years to come.
Instead of closing Guantanamo, he has made a vague promise to close that horror show a year from now, but then left open the possibility of continuing to hold people indefinitely without charge, and even left himself a loophole to torture them.
Instead of restoring the Constitution, Obama has already begun adopting the Bush practice of using signing statements to assert an unconstitutional presidential authority to ignore laws passed by the Congress. He has declined to order a halt to the odious practice of using the NSA to spy wholesale on American's electronic communications.
Instead of assuring that the laws of the land be faithfully enforced, as he swore in his oath of office, and promised in his campaign, Obama has refused to order a Justice Department investigation into whether members of the prior administration should be charged with crimes such as torture, warrantless spying on citizens or lying to Congress.
This litany of betrayals shows that rather than audacity, this president has chosen mendacity. Instead of change, he is giving us at best small change, and when it comes to abuse of the Democratic base, no change. (And I haven't even mentioned his wholesale betrayal of ordinary citizens in his pro-Wall Street bail-out of the big banks and financial institutions.)
At least President Clinton waited two years before he began a wholesale sell-out of Democratic voters.
Obama isn't even waiting for the honeymoon to end to start his betrayal.
- Posted in




127 Comments so far
Show AllYes, he is doing all this and more, faster than I'd have thought....and he is shedding support just as fast. Bad advice? Stupidity? Ignorance? I don't know, but he will soon find out its different when everyone is opposing you.
"The Employee Free Choice Act," which would restore a measure of fairness to labor relations."
Bull. Just gives unions a whip hand and tells them who in the work force is opposing them. Censorship and non democratic proposals are easy to recognize.
Right. As if unions have any power to "bullwhip" anyone.
This is rightwing nonsense. The nonsense about secret-ballot elections is all a charade. What happens is once organizers get a majority of workers to sign cards of intent saying they want a union, owners hire anti-union lawfirms and then delay an election for years, using all kinds of illegal tactics (because there are no sanctions for violation of labor relations laws). During that period of delay, they fire the organizers (illegally), and intimidate the workers who had supported the union, firing those they can't intimidate and hiring new workers who are (illegally) questioned in advance about theri support for unions. When the election finally happens (if it ever does), they win through this subversion.
Union activists have no power except peer pressure and good old-fashioned jawboning argument to convince people to fight for a union.
It's an unfair playing field, until there are laws like the anti-racketeering statutes with fines and treble damages for violating labor laws.
Cards should be a fine way to demonstrate majority support for a union.
Secret ballot elections could only work if the labor laws were enforced. but they are not enforced.
How else to explain why 60 percent of Americans say they would like a union on their job if they could get one, while only 8 percent of private employer workers have a union?
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
Dave
Rightwing nonsense? Hardly. Nonsense is trying to pass a law that solves a problem that doesn't exist. You obviously have never been a member of a union. They bully a lot. Union activists can be merciless in attacking ones family and friends. And in attacking you, physically. Lets not be naive here. Bob Wells, Heny Cineros and Charlie Linstock to name a few since you were going to ask.
I would suggest that you look at the proposal more carefully. The union gets the card check amount needed and the company is required to negotiate with them as representatives of the workers. No election needed I believe(please correct if I'm wrong). And they are required to go to binding arbitration if they don't reach agreement in a specified amount of time.
"How else to explain why 60 percent of Americans say they would like a union on their job if they could get one, while only 8 percent of private employer workers have a union?"
One sure reason is that companies are employing more foreign workers and moving union jobs out of the country.
There is a woman where I work, that claims she stoops for the job only for the benefits. She turns her nose up with distaste for the common man's Union....of whom she has to thank for her benefits.
Your lack of logic is similar in using terms like "bully" to frame organized labor. As if they were too forward and not keeping with their assigned social strata in seeking a decent standard of living. I'll betcha you never frame the smooth, tailored CEO who makes 4000 times the salary as the typical employee even when he has swindled the company--and the country into the ground--and now commands Obama bow and kiss his ring at your children's futures expense.
"One sure reason is that companies are employing more foreign workers and moving union jobs out of the country."
You state as the reason most people would prefer Union representation. Is there something wrong about that? Again logic is wanting in the disconnect, but my guess is your deliberately baiting just to stir a reaction.
Vern
Man....disagree and you are baiting. Sheessshhh!
I used the term "bully" because as far as I can see thats the only reason for "card check"..........
You mistake my distaste for this unneeded policy as being against unions. I'm not. (one caveat) I have NO use for unions that take illegal workers as members allowing them to replace American workers. No use at all. The AFL-CIO stinks for joining business in their theft of American jobs.
When someone disagrees with your position, you should look at your response. Your inference is that if I don't go for card check I must be "right wing" as Mr. lindorf opffensively suggested or must approve of and defend CEO's and corporations.
I'd suggest you consider your thinking a bit more closely and don't shoot from the hip with unsubstantiated opinions.
"One sure reason is that companies are employing more foreign workers and moving union jobs out of the country."
"You state as the reason most people would prefer Union representation. Is there something wrong about that?"
I didn't say "most people" you did. I said "one sure reason" The main reason people join a union is for protection from unwarrented firings and harrassment. Plus benefits.
But Unions can be just as bad as any Corporation.
Your distaste for anything that management dislikes is boringly predictable. Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that sit down strikes cause prostate cancer.
He's not against all unions. He's trying to differentiate the good ones from the bad ones. The money obsession on the part of the union leaders is hurting the unions. Also, I don't know whether to trust today's unions as most of their leadership and even a great deal of the members paid no attention to Kucinich or Nader/Mckinney despite the fact that they actually had stronger support for labor unions while Obama didn't. Thomas More is not trusting certain labor unions but from a different persepctive compared to management's dislike of all unions regardless.
Why thank you m'amm!
AGG
What is boringly predictable is your kneejerk approval of anything anybody tells you is against anyone above the worker.
This is a dishonst policy that removes the need for an electuion, a policy where the union soes not have to tell the workers or company how many they have. And at 51% becomes a defacto union. You don't even know how it works obviously.
My distaste is for dishonesty, lies and subtrefuge and I don't care who is doing it. The they are all bad and we are all good bunch are fools.
You obviously didn't read my little bio at the end of the article. Not only did I belong to a union, I played a key role in founding one--the National Writers Union. I organized a workplace where I worked at the age of 21. I was a Teamster truck driver.
My wife is vice president of her AFT Local, the TAUP, which has represented the faculty at Temple University in Philadelphia for the last 35 years.
It is utter bull to say that unions threaten workers. Sure there have been criminal unions, but unions represent the one best chance for workers to have some equity in confronting the boss.
Bullying? How exactly. The days of thugs with baseball bats are long gone, and those were corrupt unions, mostly linked to mobsters.
The real bullies are the managers and capitalists who treat workers as "inputs".
At least by law, unions have to be democratic. when they are not, the fault lies largely with the members, who don't take the time to exercise their democratic power and leave it to the people in office.
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
"You obviously didn't read my little bio at the end of the article"
Correct, my apologies.
"It is utter bull to say that unions threaten workers. Sure there have been criminal unions, but unions represent the one best chance for workers to have some equity in confronting the boss."
Let me be clearer....not Unions per se, (I hope) but organizers and people that represent them do bully and suggest to others that they should harass those that don't want to join. As you are well aware some Corporate problems show up in Union offices for the same reasons.
"At least by law, unions have to be democratic. when they are not, the fault lies largely with the members, who don't take the time to exercise their democratic power and leave it to the people in office."
As familiar with unions as you are then, you should be more than aware what happens many times. Its an inherent problem. Stewards like being stewards and officers seldom want change. Human nature.
"The real bullies are the managers and capitalists who treat workers as "inputs".
Can't dispute that!
I simply feel "card check" is a bad idea that would immediately lead to abuse's.
I didn't know unions could be that bad. That to me doesn't sound like organized labor but merely creating another gang with a bully as a leader. When I studied about labor unions, I learned that there was a sense of unity and caring along with team work. The union leaders would never get so picky about the fees back in the old days and bullying their own members was unheard of. The ones you describe I wouldn't even come close to calling them unions.
JenniferBedingfield
Don't mistake what I'm trying to say. I am not saying all Unions are bullies or a gang with a leader as a bully.
The instances I mentioned are isolated and NOT symtomatic of Unions. Most unions are needed, but there are some that are not good. The service workers union leaps immediately to mind.
The instances I mentioned were caused by organizers being paid by the member. So please don't take what I said as a blanket condemnation of unions, nothing could be farther from the truth.
Card check is not needed in my opinion and just begs to be abused. (also just my opinion)Thats all I'm talking about.
Hi Thomas More,
No, I don't think you're bashing unions and in fact you're correct to distinguish the good from the bad. In fact, I read your historical posts and I remembered the last two decades of a lot of unions whose leaders would go out of their way to out-CEO corporate CEOs which would result in the union collapsing. John Sweeney of the AFL-CIO sure comes to mind. People may think that I have no respect for unions just because I'm not a member but like you I have plenty of non-monied sympathy for them. In the last two decades alone out here in MO, labor unions have been privatized to the point that people nowadays look at union members with too much scorn unable to tell apart the good from the bad.
The tearful thing about labor unions this past year alone was who they supported in the elections. It sickens me that the major labor union leaders paid no attention to Kucinich in the primary or Nader in the general election, both of whom I proudly voted for and those two candidates were more supportive of real labor unions rather than the fake over-monied types. Sometimes I wonder if this country needs another Great Depression to learn.
By the way, pleased to meet you. I introduced myself to you when I replied to your post on this article:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/03/30-5
I look forward to hearing more from you and discussing more with you. :)
I am glad you didn't mistake what I was saying. I think most Unions are fairly good, with a few bad actors that don't help their image.
I always look forward to discussions and new thoughts.
I admit that I know only so much about EFCA. From what you're describing, EFCA would open up the war between the union leaders and top management but that in the end, the members are not going to benefit either way because unlike the labor unions of the past, today's labor unions are mainly focused on the money and not teamwork, labor pride, or true worker care, correct?
JenniferBedingfield
I had not gone back to that posting ( http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/03/30-5)
so I missed yours (my bad). You were very kind and yes now that you jiggled my memory about JW, I do remember that posting.
Jump in! Don't be shy. There are lots of good passoniate folks here that exchange ideas and thoughts. You'll soon realize who the trolls and loons are. There aren't many.
Thank you Thomas. I think I'll even get a lot of friendly supporters from Alternet to come on over. Like myself, they too have been utterly disgusted with the two party klutz and they would find a lot of comfort discussing their points and issues here rather than getting harassed and persecuted by the Obamabots or even the Limbaugh dittoheads. I don't mind those two groups but they really ought to know where to draw the line if they going to win over any sympathy in the long run. Maybe someday, more voters can be convinced into voting less on personality and more on the issues and their degree(s) of moderation.
Every day new details emerge that proves Obama to be the cowardly sellout that he is. Unless and until we throw off the suffocating yoke of the corrupt corporations that has engulfed our government, the worse it will get. REVOLUTION NOW.
I hate to sound like a broken record but....this should surprise no one who did any kind of digging into Obama's voting records, his writings, his public statements that WERE NOT campaign BS - which there was A LOT of.
Sioux Rose
Mr. Lindorff left off what I find to be the greatest betrayal: That of unquestionably bailing out the bankers and AIG without the slightest oversight. This diminishment of the nation's collected sums (taken disproportionately from the "working class" as present and future taxes) to shore up those with disposable incomes is a gigantic stab in the back. It only adds major insult to injury that atop this "legal" heist workers are then told they cannot freely organize to seek better conditions. The breaches of justice passing for DC's business as usual are increasingly rotten to the core. The stink is unbelievable, but I guess a lot of people are either desensitizing to what's underway or developing a unique twisted taste for it.
Actually Siouxrose, I did mention the banking outrage at the end of the article, but since I've been writing about that betrayal ad nauseum for the last few weeks, I didn't want to open that can of worms in this particular article. Believe me, I ain't insensitized to it.
Visit Dave Lindorff's website at www.thiscantbehappening.net
And in that Mr. Lindorff you were absolutely correct! It was a betrayal....
He ain't done shit about I\P either--continuing Bush's strategy of no strategy in adopting Israel's line--which of course the entire world sees through.
He ain't nothin but shit.
He is the empty man -- empty words, empty promises, empty heart, and, apparently, an empty head, all adding up to an empty suit.
This is key:
"Obama isn't even waiting for the honeymoon to end to start his betrayal."
Because so many are unwilling to face it, are in denial and attempt to ward off the inevitable by seeking the passage of time for Obama to redeem himself. Meanwhile, Obama's betrayals multiply by the hour, and while some desperately cling to the promise of hope and change, he rams through his true agenda.
Truthfully, I despise him more than Bush, because no expected any better from Bush--Obama's deception is truly betrayal while he still cynically recites his lines.
I'm with you on this. Barack Obama is the Dalai Lama of Supreme Political Phonies. He certainly fooled me . . . or more precisely, I certainly fooled myself.
"He certainly fooled me . . . or more precisely, I certainly fooled myself."
I was right behind you Mordechai. At least I was in good company.
I still don't get it. Obama is a good speaker, full stop.
Hitler was a good speaker...
So oratory is not everything.
Did you really think all America needed was a new "spokesmodel"?
Nope! But I was sure it didn't need to be McCained. I was "hoping"
How terribly disappointing this administration is already. This is certainly not the man who campaigned so vigorously for "CHANGE!!!!!"
I thought that perhaps I had lived, at age 65, long enough to experience at least one President who actually meant what he said when he campaigned for changing America into a democracy such as was cherished by Lincoln!
Instead we get more of the same old crap - government by the Corporatocracy!!! Mr. Obama, enjoy your one-term presidency. Your constituents are dropping like flies!!!
You have to "deserve" a second term and so far, Mr. President, you are NOT measuring up! Perhaps re-reading some of your stump speeches might jog your memory and remind you of the "PROMISE" of the new Republic you so vividly described during your campaign. We remember what you promised and will not forget!!!
Et tu, Barry?
From now on, I shall refer to Obama as "One-Eyed Jack". This is from the movie of the same name in which Marlon Brando tells the villain, Karl Malden, "You're a one-eyed jack around here. But I seen the other side of your face."
I tried my best to explain to people the insanity of expecting change from Obama and to build a third party. Now maybe all you Obama lovers out there will finally wake up and realize you have been fooled again!The same people that have controlled our government for many years control Obama;otherwise, believe me, he would have been truncated like Cynthia Mckinney, Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, ect.
I am a lifelong socialist who voted for Obama and I would do so again if the election were held tomorrow with the same contestants. I was under no illusions as I expected little to nothing from Obama in terms of progressive policies. The corporate media and the rest of the corporate oligarchy held a gun to the electorate's head, said gun named "McCain/Palin," with the expectation that most people would want to avoid catastrophe and so would vote for Obama. Obama would be elected and most people would be convinced that the system was legitimate and that they had exercised a real choice. I went along with it as there were no viable options at the time and there will not be until we get the pot boiling, the anger among the common people rising to the level that they will join together and risk everything for change.
If McCain had won, which was very unlikely given the lack of corporate media support (they recognized an unjustifiable risk in electing a madman when a compliant yes-man like Obama was the alternative), there was a significant risk of war with Iran and possibly Pakistan, including a risk that either such war would go nuclear. But what may be the most important reason for stopping McCain was that he would be almost certain to take draconian measures if significant unrest developed, including ordering military units to fire on protestors, using electronic and other surveillance on virtually all left-of-center groups, disappearing protest leaders and other significant members of any protest movement, and probably shutting down the Internet as a tool in political organizing and communicating. It is my guess that Obama would be much more reluctant to take such measures.
This post from kivals is the usual composte of counterfactual conjectures. People who are desperate to find reasons to support corporate Democrats like Obama seldom have recourse to FACTS, because FACTS show mainstream Dems and Repubs on the same page on nearly every key issue of the economy and national security. So these Obamaphiles revert to their rich imaginations--if the Republicans were elected, all blacks and Jews would be rounded up and sent to underground shelters, three simultaneous nuclear wars would start--some with other planets and galaxies, right-wing agents would start peeing in the water supply of San Francisco, etc., etc. Out this swirl we end up with somebody's "guess" that Obama would be a part of this rich effulgence from their fantasy life.
Some people, unable to deal with the reality of the Democratic Party, revert to fantasy. Whatever it takes.
Talk about counter-factual, you made up "facts" about my comment. Obamaphile? Where did that come from? I made it pretty clear that I despise Obama. And where did that come from about "blacks and Jews"? Is there a bit of projection there or just ordinary closet racism? Do you even have a job or are you a trust fund baby? You sound like you are 12 years old or, if older, that you still live off of your parents as you appear to have no appreciation for the difficulty of choosing between unpalatable alternatives when a choice must be made. I suspect that I was voting for and supporting socialists and knocking on doors to discuss political matters years, maybe decades, before you were born. And I voted Nader in 2000 and 2004 but did not see any reason to do so again in 2008.
Obama is a hopeless corporatist and the Democrats as a whole have become pathetic corporatists. No kidding. How long did it take you to figure that out? My 12 year-old son figured it out. Congratulations. But you are just wasting everyone's time if you do not have an understanding that everything is flowing and constantly evolving. You have to hit a moving target. If a Republican is going to shut down the Internet and shut down all avenues for growing a protest movement, it does make the path more difficult, does it not?
There are no political algorithms and we all have to guess when it comes to optimal political strategies. My guess is that a McCain victory would have been worse. I would also guess that you do not have a clue.
Someone who spews a foaming mouthful of personal insults at someone he has never met accuses someone else of acting like a 12-year-old? Hmmm . . . takes all kinds.
Oh, yeah--you despise Obama enough to have voted for this creep and help to put him in a position to stage the largest looting of a national treasury in history, to continue the slaughter in Iraq, to escalate the war in Afghanistan, to basically do nothing about the impending climate catastrophe, to push single-payer out of consideration, etc., etc. On behalf of millions of other Americans, I wish to thank you deeply for your carefully considered gesture of solidarity for ordinary Americans. . . oh wait, that turns out to be solidarity for the crooks on Wall Street and the private insurance bloodsuckers. Sorry, I got that exactly backwards.
And, of course, I was NOT putting any words into your mouth or misrepresenting your thoughts. I was doing a reductio ad absurdam of your mode of thinking--the usual classical fact-free rationalization for voting for the Dems, because you IMAGINE that they would have done this thing less offensively or less ineptly than the Republicans . . . except for the inconvenient truth that ALWAYS, while in office, they are just as bad or worse.
I'm sorry to hear that your long experience as a socialist has taught you exactly nothing and has left your issuing lame apologetics for casting your vote for one of the most criminal kleptocratic regimes in American history. For that, and for your unhinged spew of personal abuse, you must be very proud of yourself!
You started with the personal insults. My, you must be clever to recast such insults as "reductio ad absurdam." (check your spelling by the way) Do you not realize that all insults can be recast in that manner? And do you not realize that there are an infinite number of logically consistent interpretations of history possible, that it is impossible to prove that yours are any more valid than mine or Lindorff's, and that those we choose are the ones we find most consistent with our experiences and knowledge?
I believe Lindorff was right that you have the cart before the horse: The popular anger and motivation for change leads to the development of viable third parties, not the other way around (that was why I had mentioned the necessity to get the "pot boiling" in an earlier comment on this thread).
So my vote elected Obama? I am so proud! I stopped McCain all by myself. And I support Obama's policies? I do not remember ever stating that. Talk about fact free ...
I am quite certain I have voted for more third parties in the past than you have. With experience I have learned, like Lindorff, that without the popular movement behind them, such efforts are exercises in futility. Maybe you would benefit from watching Monty Python's "Life of Brian" sometime. It hilariously depicts fictional third parties in Palestine during Roman rule fighting amongst themselves and having no effect on the occupation whatsoever.
If you really want to effect change without a popular political movement, there are ways to do it, but they involve real personal sacrifice including jail time and possibly death. If you are not ready to go there, please do not imply that you are dedicated to making changes.
And I really did think you were 12. I still do. Just kidding. In all honesty, I believe that you are a freshman in college. Political philosophy and theory are quite middle brow. This is not any great intellectual exercise. Americans are generally pathetically misinformed about these issues and far too many young people in the US assume they have achieved some great intellectual status when they experience an epiphany and recognize that the US political/social/economic system, and the supporting rhetoric used to justify it, is complete nonsense.
Your ad hominem rants grow more unhinged with each round.
And your attempt at analysis betrays a mind seething with confusion unto disorientation--your post is like a glimpse into a case history of emotional and intellectual unraveling. Not a pretty sight at all.
What are you saying--there are an infinite number of possible interpretations of history, so they're all equally valid? David Irving's argument that there was no Holocaust is as valid as all others? Milton Friedman's argument that free markets are the key to human freedom is as valid as Chomsky's view that markets lead neither to freedom nor equality? There is no view of history or society that is any truer than any other? Are you quite serious?
What else can we find amid your lather of invective--oh, yes. Your vote single-handedly stopped McCain. What's your implication here--that there are significant differences on domestic and foreign policy between Obama and McCain that exist IN FACT, on the record, rather than in your imagination, as hypothetical what-ifs? If so, please document such differences.
You further state that you vote for people whose policies you strenously deplore--or claim to deplore. This is a sign of some kind of strange masochistic mental disorder, and I would seek professional help for this.
By the way--none of your personal conjectures about me are true. In fact, I am a superevolved life form sent here from the Andromeda galaxy. I extract life energy from an inexhaustible ether that is not yet known to your paltry earthly science. My mission here on your planet is to confer wisdom and enlightenment on souls riven and tormented with hatred and confusion such as your own. I am here to help. Please disgorge another round of your confusion and contempt so that I can understand you even better. I am here to help. That is all for now. I must file a report with my handlers via telekinesis, so I will be unavailable for several nanoseconds. (Here imagine the sound of a theramin, just as you imagine all the terrible calamities that would ensue from electing a Republican shill for corporations rather than a Democratic shill for the same corporations.)
"By the way--none of your personal conjectures about me are true. In fact, I am a superevolved life form sent here from the Andromeda galaxy. I extract life energy from an inexhaustible ether that is not yet known to your paltry earthly science. My mission here on your planet is to confer wisdom and enlightenment on souls riven and tormented with hatred and confusion such as your own. I am here to help..."
So you do offer impressive proof that you are a college freshman. And I was just making a wild guess!
Obama vs. McCain? Do you really believe there were no differences between the meek corporatist Obama and the insane warmongering fascist McCain? As bad as Obama's foreign policy team is, McCain was talking to Kristol and Podhoretz and a virtual gang of madmen whose number one priority was attacking Iran. As bad as Obama's economic policy team is, McCain's main economic adviser was Phil Gramm. As bad as Obama's domestic policy is, Obama, as far as we know, is not attempting to privatize Social Security or end Net Neutrality while McCain would have done his best to accomplish those objectives. And Obama has increased, however modestly, outlays for unemployment insurance and other social safety net expenditures. There are an infinite number of degrees of evil, and just because Obama is evil that does not mean that McCain could not be significantly more evil.
In general, your simple model of the universe is hilarious. I must grant you that. I bet you have your dorm mates in stitches. And I love your constant ad hominem attacks in which you claim that I am making unjustified ad hominem attacks in response to your ad hominem attacks, which, according to you, are not ad hominem at all! I do recall a propensity for freshmen to use their own definitions. Good for you.
I really should let you debate my 12 year-old son, who has an impressive vocabulary for his age, as you do for yours, but who has not yet developed an ability to think very deeply, and in that respect you are a good match for him.
Oh, and kiddo, when did I say that all models of history would be equally valid? Are you making up your facts again? I wrote that there are an infinite number of models of history that are logically consistent. That means that such models do not dispute what we would consider to be undisputed facts (and I do mean "you and me" by "we" here as we are the ones constructing a common model of the universe in our communication, so you and I would conclude that a model of history denying the Holocaust is not logically consistent). We all create models of the universe in our own minds, and in our communications we compare and contrast, looking for inconsistencies and contradictions, and create shared models that are based on "facts" and rules of reasoning that we can agree on.
In mathematics, virtually all inconsistencies can be ironed out as all the basic underlying assumptions and proofs can be spelled out. In the hard sciences, rigorous experiments can be performed to winnow down the possibilities and allow for the development of universal models. With regard to the social sciences, it is far more difficult to winnow down the possibilities. When it comes to history, forget it. Even if we can agree on a large number of historical facts, there will always be an overwhelming number of historical events for which no broad-based agreement exists. And the interpretations even of those facts we agree on are unbounded in number because the level of analysis one can engage in is unbounded in depth.
I am really getting tired of engaging in a flame war with a kid. This is my last entry on this thread. Kiddo, you really should be getting back to your schoolwork. You probably have an Econ test or something like that coming up. By the way, call your parents. I bet they miss you. And good luck with your studies.
I have no idea what you're talking about, and neither, obviously, do you. I asked you to produce one real-world important policy difference between McCain and Obama, and what do we get? A jag of frenetic souped-up adjectives about McCain being a fascist mad dog, Phil Gram having been his economic advisor some months back (as though he's any worse than Larry Summers!), etc., etc. But not one significant policy difference that's ON THE HISTORICAL, EMPIRICAL RECORD.
I rest my case.
Actually, McCain might have nailed it if the economy perceived to be under Republican control, hadn't tanked. And I wonder--if McCain-Palin had pulled it off and the policies were identical, want to bet that the anger would consolidate much faster than this lingering clinging to the hope and change mantra?
I saw a corporate media viciously attack a clueless Palin after treating an equally clueless Bush with kid gloves for years. And the media treated Obama far better than it had treated Kerry or Gore. I do not know for certain, but it appeared that the corporate media was rigging it for Obama.
Everything you say is true, especially this: "It is my guess that Obama would be much more reluctant to take such measures." Yes . . . but he'd do it if necessary and probably with less provocation than we think.
The far right is fulminating, frothing at the mouth like a pack of drunken mustered out German army officers in the Weimar Republic. I think they'll be back as early as '012 because One-Eyed Jack Obama is proving to be such a lilly livered chicken- shit.
But you see, I agree with you that Obama is a "lilly livered chicken-shit," and that is why I think he would be reluctant to take extreme measures. McCain would have been itching to have his "heroes" mow down protestors to prove he really was a greater warrior than his father or grandfather. I suspect the man gets a woody at the thought of being responsible for blood flowing in the streets. Of course, if one wanted violent revolution, one may regret a McCain loss because he may well have provoked it. Obama may do so yet, but he is more likely to provoke massive unrest that, I am hoping, he is too cowardly to squash violently. But it could happen.
"there will not be [a viable option] until we get the pot boiling, the anger among the common people rising to the level that they will join together and risk everything for change."
Many of us who refused to vote for a Democratic or Republican presidential candidate did, in some sense, risk everything for change. And we wonder what the hell the rest of you are waiting for. Just do it. The next time the corporate media holds a gun to the electorate's head, tell them to go screw themselves.
If the millions of people who vote for Democrats as the lesser of two evils stopped doing so, it would send a shock wave through this country's political system, and the people might then reclaim some of the power that they were meant to have. But fear of the consequences keeps them from doing so.
John, how true! " fear of the consequences keeps them from doing so". Would you rather have McCain and Palin; you are wasting your vote for third party candidates; ad naseum. You hear that again and again from the Obama supporters.
I voted for third parties for years and years, the last time being for Nader in 2004. But over time I have come to agree with Lindorff's position that the movement comes before the viable third party, not the other way around. In the meantime, I have come to believe that the best I can do for now is to do what little I can to stop those (such as McCain/Palin) who would provide the greatest obstacles to the growth and success of such a movement.
In other countries, people who "risk everything for change," risk jail time and even death. I am afraid that until a significant number of Americans are willing to do the same, that nothing will change. I think it is time we admit that Americans have been, and may be for some time, the most sheepish, lazy, easily manipulated dupes on the planet.
I saw an interesting documentary on the Supreme Court recently. Episode two went on about Lincoln-appointed chief Stephen Fields and how he was obsessed with the "right of contracts." He believed that unions and minimum wage laws interferred with the average person's "right" to enter into a contract. He said "if that person took a minimum wage job it meant that he would have been willing to negotiate for it for even less." God bless him. This was one of the ingredients that led up to the great depression by increasing the nation's wealth disparity. It would take FDR's threat of adding supreme court justices (something he could have gotten away with because the nation was so behind him) to get the court to finally overrule this idea. I guess settled law isn't so settled after all.
The upshot, and I'll say it again: I guess tax cuts to the rich aren't enough for Obama, he's seen fit to hand money to them in bailout-buckets. Personally, I think the only bailing out that AIG execs should be considered for is by a bail-bondsman.
To me, the most disturbing thing about all of this is the silence of the so called liberals, dead silence, while this guy continues Bush's legacy in almost every way he can. Obviously, he's completely devoid of principles. But show me where he's helped somebody in his long career, show me a specific instance of him doing good in this world, and I'll show you how Bush was never AWOL.