Obama's Efforts to Block a Judicial Ruling on Bush's Illegal Eavesdropping
A federal appeals court dealt a blow to the Obama administration Friday when it refused to block a judge from admitting top secret evidence in a lawsuit weighing whether a U.S. president may bypass Congress, as President George W. Bush did, and establish a program of eavesdropping on Americans without warrants.
And here are the two paragraphs from the AP report:
The Obama administration has lost its argument that a potential threat to national security should stop a lawsuit challenging the government's warrantless wiretapping program. . . .
The Obama administration, like the Bush administration before it, claimed national security would be compromised if a lawsuit brought by the Oregon chapter of the charity, Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, was allowed to proceed.
Let's just pause for a moment to consider how remarkable those statements are. One of the worst abuses of the Bush administration was its endless reliance on vast claims of secrecy to ensure that no court could ever rule on the legality of the President's actions. They would insist that "secrecy" prevented a judicial ruling even when the President's actions were (a) already publicly disclosed in detail and (b) were blatantly criminal -- as is the case with the NSA warrantless eavesdropping program, which The New York Times described on its front page more than three years ago and which a federal statute explicitly criminalized. Secrecy claims of that sort -- to block judicial review of the President's conduct, i.e., to immunize the President from the rule of law -- provoked endless howls of outrage from Bush critics.
Yet now, the Obama administration is doing exactly the same thing. Hence, it is accurately deemed "a blow to the Obama administration" that a court might rule on whether George Bush broke the law when eavesdropping on Americans without warrants. Why is the Obama administration so vested in preventing that from happening, and -- worse still -- in ensuring that Presidents continue to have the power to invoke extremely broad secrecy claims in order to block courts from ruling on allegations that a President has violated the law?
Obama defenders take note: this is not a case where the Obama DOJ claims more time is needed to decide what to do, nor is it even a case where the Obama DOJ merely passively adopted the Bush DOJ's already filed arguments. Here, they have done much, much more than that. Obama lawyers have been running around for weeks attempting one desperate, extreme measure after the next to prevent this case from proceeding -- emergency appeals, requests for stays, and every time they lose, threats of still further appeals, this time to the U.S. Supreme Court.
During the controversy in the Jeppesen/rendition case, there were actually "defend-Obama-at-all-costs" advocates in the comment section offering the painfully ludicrous excuse that Obama only embraced Bush's State Secrets theory because Obama secretly hoped and expected to lose the case and thus create good judicial precedent. But in the Al-Haramin case, the Obama DOJ has now lost -- twice -- in their attempts to invoke secrecy to stop this case from proceeding, but they just keep searching for a court to accept their claims:
Yet government lawyers signaled they would continue fighting to keep the information secret, setting up a new showdown between the courts and the White House over national security. . . .
[H]ours after the appeals court made its decision, government lawyers filed new papers insisting they still did not have to turn over any sensitive information.
''The government respectfully requests that the court refrain from further actions to provide plaintiffs with access to classified information,'' said the filing, suggesting the Obama administration may appeal the matter again to keep the information secret and block the case from going forward.
Manifestly, the Obama DOJ has one goal and one goal only here: to prevent any judicial ruling as to whether the Bush NSA warrantless eavesdropping program was illegal. And they're engaging in extraordinary efforts to ensure that occurs.
To explain why this behavior is so pernicious, so lawless and so dangerous, I'm going to turn the floor over to a long-time, eloquent critic of Bush's secrecy theories -- who just so happens also to be Obama's soon-to-be-confirmed appointee for Chief of the Office of Legal Counsel, Dawn Johnsen. In March of 2008 -- less than a year ago -- this is what she said about the Bush administration's efforts to conceal its FISA-violating eavesdropping activities:
NYT? What's Bush's Excuse for Keeping Law Violations Secret?
But I think we do have to name the even more fundamental question: whether the Bush administration itself acted responsibly in keeping secret that same story. What was its legitimate justification in the first place for misleading the NYT into keeping that information secret for more than a year?
I'm afraid we are growing immune to just how outrageous and destructive it is, in a democracy, for the President to violate federal statutes in secret. Remember that much of what we know about the Bush administration's violations of statutes (and yes, I realize they claim not to be violating statutes) came first only because of leaks and news coverage. Incredibly, we still don't know the full extent of our government's illegal surveillance or illegal interrogations (and who knows what else) -- despite Congress's failed efforts to get to the bottom of it. Congress instead resorted to enacting new legislation on both issues largely in the dark.
Yet here we have the Obama DOJ doing exactly this -- not merely trying desperately to keep the Bush administration's spying activities secret, and not merely devoting itself with full force to preventing disclosure of relevant documents concerning this illegal program, but far worse, doing everything in its power even to prevent any judicial adjudication as to whether the Bush administration broke the law by spying on Americans without warrants. As Obama's hand-picked OLC chief put it: "I'm afraid we are growing immune to just how outrageous and destructive it is, in a democracy, for the President to violate federal statutes in secret."
The details of this case (which I've recounted in full here) highlight even further how indefensible is the Obama DOJ's conduct. The Bush administration succeeded in blocking all other judicial challenges to its illegal NSA eavesdropping with the Kafkaesque argument that because (a) nobody knows on whom the Bush administration spied without warrants (precisely because eavesdropping without warrants ensures that the targets are concealed from everyone, including even a court) and (b) that information cannot be disclosed to anyone (including courts) because it's a "State Secret," no individual party has "standing" to sue because nobody can prove that they were actually subjected to the illegal eavesdropping (because it was done in the dark).
But this case, from the start, was different. As part of a criminal investigation against the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, an Oregon-based charity, the Bush DOJ accidentally turned over to the charity's lawyers a document showing that the Bush NSA eavesdropped without warrants on conversations between the charity and its two lawyers, both U.S. citizens. The charity and its lawyers then sued the Bush administration for illegally eavesdropping on their communications. That document is what distinguished this case from all other NSA cases, because it enables the plaintiffs (the charity and its lawyers) to prove that they were subjected to Bush's illegal spying program and they therefore have standing to sue.
It is that document -- which has been described publicly and which the plaintiffs' lawyers have already seen -- which the Obama DOJ is now desperately attempting to block the court from considering on the grounds that allowing the case to proceed will -- somehow -- harm America's national security. Everyone knows the Bush administration spied on Americans without warrants and in violation of the law. Everyone knows that this document reflects that these plaintiffs were among those who were illegally spied on.
Still, there's the Obama administration -- just like the Bush administration -- claiming that we'll all be slaughtered if a court rules on whether the President broke the law. And, as Marcy Wheeler astutely notes, the lawbreaking here is particularly egregious (and certainly criminal) since some of the warrantless eavesdropping here appears to have occurred in March, 2004 -- during the exact period when even the Bush DOJ expressly concluded that the NSA program was so illegal that it refused to certify its legality and top DOJ officials (including John Ashcroft) threatened to resign in protest of its continuation (here's more from Marcy on some key details in this case, and from EFF as well).
Our nation's most transparent administration in history won't bother to explain why they're doing any of this: "A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment." We'll probably have to wait for one of them to gather up enough courage to anonymously whisper their alleged reasons into Marc Ambinder's faithful ear. In the meantime, while we wait for that, what is clear is that the Obama DOJ has undertaken exactly the same mission as the Bush DOJ for years so successfully carried out: namely, ensuring that Presidents remain above the law by invoking patently absurd claims of secrecy to argue that our National Security cannot withstand judicial rulings on whether the President's actions were, in fact, illegal.
* * * * *
On a related note: last week, I interviewed the ACLU's Jonathan Hafetz about the Obama administration's March 23 deadline to file a Supreme Court brief in the Al-Marri case, brought by the last person still being held on U.S. soil as an "enemy combatant." In 2003, Al-Marri (Hafetz's client), who was in the U.S. legally on a student visa, was about to be tried on various criminal charges when, at the last minute, Bush declared him an "enemy combatant" and ordered him transferred to a military brig, where he has remained ever since with no charges and no trial. In his case, the Fourth Circuit's Court of Appeals last year largely upheld the power of the President to imprison legal residents (and even U.S. citizens) on U.S. soil in military prison with no criminal charges, and the U.S. Supreme Court had agreed to review that decision.
This week, the Obama DOJ filed criminal charges against Al-Marri, so he will now be transferred back to the civilian court system and have what the U.S. Constitution clearly mandates: a full trial and due process. For Al-Marri, that is a positive step: now, he'll only remain in prison if he's convicted of a crime in a real court and (presumably) will be freed if he's acquitted. That's how our system is supposed to work.
But whether this is a positive step in a general sense is a different question. In the Jose Padilla case, the Bush administration kept a U.S. citizen in a cage for many years without charges of any kind, and then suddenly filed criminal charges against him right as the Supreme Court was set to rule on the constitutionality of imprisoning U.S. citizens as "enemy combatants" with no trial. Once they finally indicted Padilla, the Bush administration ran and argued that the indictment rendered the questions before the Court moot. The Supreme Court, in essence, agreed and refused to hear the appeal, thus leaving in place the Fourth Circuit's affirmation that the President has this power.
If that is what the Obama DOJ does here -- namely, if it succeeds in its efforts to convince the Supreme Court not to rule on this critical matter because, yet again, the individual who has been encaged for years without charges was, at the last minute, transferred to a civilian court (thus leaving standing the Fourth Circuit's horrendous ruling) -- that will be destructive for all the reasons that Bush critics cited when the same thing was done in the Padilla case.
The Obama DOJ deserves some limited credit for indicting Al-Marri and thus refusing to continue to imprison him with no charges. It's certainly not Obama's fault that Al-Marri was imprisoned for years with no charges, and the only fair option was to do what they did: give him a real trial. But if this indictment results in the preservation of the President's power in the future to similarly detain people without charges -- because of the Obama DOJ's efforts to block the Supreme Court from ruling on this question -- then it is worthy of criticisms for the same reasons it was in the Padilla case.
Ultimately, the real question is not whether you think Obama will use these powers the same way Bush did (nobody can know that), but rather: do you want the secrecy and detention architecture built by George Bush, Dick Cheney and David Addington to remain in place so that -- even if it remains dormant now -- Obama or some future President can decide at any time to revitalize and use it at will? Thus far, Obama's answer to that question seems to be a resounding "yes."
UPDATE: I spoke to the annual conference of the ACLU of Massachusetts last month regarding impediments to the restoration of civil liberties under the Obama administration. I posted the link at the end of yesterday's post, but since that was at the end of the day, and since the speech relates directly to the topic here, I'll post it again for those interested: the 30-minute speech can be heard on MP3 here and is also available on ITunes here (the video of the speech may or may not be posted at some point in the future).
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65 Comments so far
Show AllAs I have written many times over the years, the primary reason that Congress did not take on the impeachment of Bush and the repeal of his administration's illegal acts is because they wanted to inherit it to use for their own purposes. I would say that it is coming to pass. In the Obamanation, most of the key illegalities of the Cheney/Bush are being protected, hidden or used.
No government in history has ever voluntarily given back any rights or freedoms that they have taken from their people.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Santayana
Basically, FISA is already a violation of Constitution rights so any
weakening of FISA law is simply a further violation of Constitutional
rights.
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Bring America Back !!!!...So much for the CHANGE we voted for, and Greenwald proves Obama may not even deserve the lesser of 2 evils title.
***Instead of Mr. Change, Barak Obama is rapidly earning the title, Mr Cave-In ! He needs to call off the DOJ dogs.
omg, the executive is not seeking to limit its own power! or relinquish power its predecessor accrued! shocking!
the "unitary executive" of the bush years is actually very attractive...to the obama admin, to congress, corporations, the msm, the military......the stale formalities of democratic procedure are withering away. elections, checks & balances and all that...so tiresome and annoying and ineffectual...adios democratic facade.
Well, what can I say? Obama's refusal to restore civil liberties isn't too much of a surprise given the fact that he didn't make much of an issue on it. Unfortunately, much as I don't like what he's doing, I'm afraid he already knows that there are far more brainwashed voters who accept this kind of false "security" as "winning the war on terror". Until we the people actually unite and take on Big Telco, don't expect Obama or Congress to listen. I've already boycotted and buycotted and it doesn't take a lot of research to switch to a real provider that represents you and respects your rights to privacy. Let us all shoot for the positive breakthrough and put these corporate wrongdoers out of business. Take the fight to your local, state, and federal legislators and make them open the doors to public telecommunications so that you have the option of throwing out the middle man and make it clear to them that you will not tolerate illegal eavesdropping. While you're at it, let's get to work on rebuilding small business telecommunications locally and showing our support for local business against the corporate bullies.
By defending the telecom companies, Obama is not defending Bush. It seems reasonable to me to to assume that these companies did not think they were breaking the law, because the government told them that national security was at stake, and that trumps privacy concerns. Just because Bush abused his authority doesn't mean we should try to bankrupt AT@T.
joehope,
I hope you realize that you just made a fool of yourself with that remark. Obama, in this case, is making a grave mistake and AT&T engaged in corporate wrongdoing but Obama is screwing up by continuing to give it "immunity" and you call that "national security" ?
"I hope you realize that you just made a fool of yourself with that remark."
How so?
racom40
How could at&t, verizon and others not know what Quest did know when they refused to do the dirty work? The wire tapping companies should be prosecuted, the only way to insure it will not happen again. No government authority can over ride the constitutional rights of citizens.
AT&T staff attorneys were well aware of the FISA laws. They also knew that Bush could have gotten an immediate warrent from the FISA Court if our national security was threatened by NOT wiretapping.
Bring America Back !!!!...well JoeHope, nobody is more aware of privacy protections and the wiretapping laws than the Big Telecoms. National security warrants are the means by which government protects our interests. The key is the necessary Warrant !
****They all knew those laws were being flagrantly violated without the proper executed warrants. Only a Fool would believe they did not know it was wrong, illegal, and feloniously treasonous !
**Most all the Big Telecons cowered and cooperated with King George, except QWEST, which stood up to the Govt and Corp bullying, refused to Wiretap. That CEO is a national Hero.
**Only a Fool would attribute any good faith to the Telecoms, and JoeHope that makes you a Fool, based on your comments.
Dream on, joehope, dream on.
Of course Obama is defending Bush AND the telecom companies that broke the law. They knew what they were asked to do was illegal and did it anyway.
And BTW, "national security" does NOT trump the privacy guarantees addressed by the Constitution, most of all not the "privacy concerns" of a president who violates the law.
Give me a break! The U. S. Constitution contains no express right to privacy. The Bill of Rights, however, reflects the concern of James Madison and other framers for protecting specific aspects of privacy, such as the privacy of beliefs (1st Amendment), privacy of the home against demands that it be used to house soldiers (3rd Amendment), privacy of the person and possessions as against unreasonable searches (4th Amendment), and the 5th Amendment's privilege against self-incrimination, which provides protection for the privacy of personal information.
Show me where the Bill of Rights covers wiretapping?
In addition, the Ninth Amendment states that the "enumeration of certain rights" in the Bill of Rights "shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people." The meaning of the Ninth Amendment is elusive, but some persons (including Justice Goldberg in his Griswold concurrence) have interpreted the Ninth Amendment as justification for broadly reading the Bill of Rights to protect privacy in ways not specifically provided in the first eight amendments.
Thus the "right to privacy" is to be determined by the the Court's subsequent decisions. So if you are willing to rely on precedent for fleshing out what the "right to privacy" means, then you also have to accept that precedent has established that National Security trumps individual liberties. A military draft, for example, does exactly this (even general security can trump individual liberties such as traffic check-points or obscenity laws).
So, "national security" does indeed trump the privacy guarantees addressed by the Constitution.
joehope
Are you aware that the Bill of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, and therefore part of the Constitution?
Why would you foolishly and futilely try to separate them?
I really think you're a BushBot, but you should realize that you don't have a chance to persuade progressives that your point of view is good for America.
"Are you aware that the Bill of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, and therefore part of the Constitution?"
Yes.
"Why would you foolishly and futilely try to separate them?"
How? By mentioning that we didn't have the Bill of Rights in 1776?
"I really think you're a BushBot"
I voted against Bush in 2000 (Gore, not Nader) and in 2004 (Kerry, not Nader), and thank G*d, in 2008 (Obama, not Nader). If you want to trade random attacks, then I think you're a LaRouche/Nader supporter.
Well, since the Bill of Rights was written about 150 years before wiretapping existed, it's a bit disingenuous to ask "Show me where the Bill of Rights covers wiretapping?" That's like saying, "Show me which of the ten commandments says selling meth to 12 year-olds is prohibited," as a way of justifying it. The rest of your defense of Obama's protection of Bush's illegality is most likely cut and pasted from some conservative legal website. It sounds like John Yoo thru and thru. If Obama suddenly decreed that everyone who didn't vote for him be rounded up and incarcerated in Iraqi prisons, you'd concoct some groveling defense of it. You exactly like all Bush's defenders over his 8 years of crime and duplicity. Authority is what you respect above anything else, especially if it comes from your Lord and Savior St. Barack.
"Well, since the Bill of Rights was written about 150 years before wiretapping existed, it's a bit disingenuous to ask "Show me where the Bill of Rights covers wiretapping?"
Thank you for making my point for me.
Yes, quite obviously it is just as disingenuous as saying that that the Constitution prohibits wiretapping.
You are surrendering your inalienable rights unless ennumerated?
Of course the right not to be wiretapped isn't mentioned . . . neither
are many other human rights!
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Well, opening and reading your mail (letter) sent by the post office would be analagous to wiretapping.
"The Church Committee learned that beginning in the 1950s, the CIA and FBI intercepted, opened and photographed more than 215,000 pieces of mail by the time the program called "HT Lingual" was shut down in 1973. ..... The Church report found that the CIA was zealous about keeping the Postal Service from learning that mail was being opened by government agents. CIA agents moved mail to a private room to open the mail or in some cases opened envelopes at night after stuffing them in briefcases or coat pockets to deceive postal officials."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
So we know it was considered illegal then.
And based on this case, opening domestic mail (letters) w/o a warrant certainly seems to be a violation of the 4th amendment. International mail is a whole different animal, the government has a right to open and examine anything that crosses the border (ncluding whats on your notebook or hard drives).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=431&page=619
So, assuming the analogy with snail mail is proper I think it is safe to conclude that wiretapping w/o a warrant is a violation of the 4th amendment, at least for domestic only calls.
"Well, opening and reading your mail (letter) sent by the post office would be analagous to wiretapping."
I don't see how. Electronic mail is not the same as paper mail.
"So we know it was considered illegal then."
Nothing in the statement you quoted mentions it being illegal.
"And based on this case"
I couldn't get your link to work. Is it the Postal Reform law?
"International mail is a whole different animal, the government has a right to open and examine anything that crosses the border (ncluding whats on your notebook or hard drives)."
Right. I believe the reason they have that authority (trumping our individual liberties) is for national security.
Also, there's this (hate to agree with Bush, But this does seem reasonable):
"The Dec. 20 signing statement said the president had the power to check mail "in a manner consistent, to the maximum extent permissible, with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances, such as to protect human life and safety against hazardous materials, and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=2770381&page=1
So your argument seems to be that any technology not specifically anticipated by the writers of the Constitution at the end of the 18th Century is not covered by any legal protections. After all, you haven 't stated any other bases to distinguish electronic writing from snail mail. Wouldn't your reasoning extend to letters written on a typewriter, for example, as opposed to a quill pen? Indeed, letters written on a ball point pen also wouldn't be covered. This seems like an argument not based on any accepted principle.
So in other words you're all in favor of wiretapping. Certainly, if your God Barack decrees it! You have no idea what privacy even means, or what it's good for, if it stands in the way of some politician's definition of National Security. You are EXACTLY like Bush's defenders. In fact, you probably are one.
Are you also gung ho about Obama's pledge to surge into Afghanistan? Getting all moon-eyed and heart skipping a beat about his bailout of Wall Street's banksters and hedge funds hustlers? Is there anything he could do to make you question his infallibility? If he said tomorrow he's nuking Iran the next day, you'd be groveling at his feet and chastising anyone who protested. If you're a "progressive" it's little wonder why that means nearly nothing anymore. You're a progressive like Kissinger's a progressive.
"National Security trumps individual liberties"-i don't normally go around tooting washington and jefferson's horn, but joehope, spouting that crap in 1776 might have got you hung or shot. whatever happened to "give me liberty or give me...." what was it again? national security?
you really need to get over this attachment to obama and the dems. your justifications for whatever the latest b.s. obama is doing get dumber and lamer every day.
Unbelievably!
Please come back to reality.
Has the US ever used the draft?
Yes.
Did using the draft violates civil liberties?
Obviously.
How thick-headed are you?
""National Security trumps individual liberties"-i don't normally go around tooting washington and jefferson's horn, but joehope, spouting that crap in 1776 might have got you hung or shot."
Please, read a history book. Better yet read the Federalist papers. We didn't even have the Bill of Rights til December 15, 1791. In fact, Washington was nearly made our king! So no, I wouldn't have been shot any more than Alexander Hamilton would have (assuming he didn't say it to Aaron Burr).
These companies have an army of lawyers who would have advised them if it was legal or not. The CEO of the one company that did reject to cooperate because it was unlawful got himself "investigated" and went to jail.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=civilliberties_232
And this cooperation started before 9/11, not after, as is commonly believed.
I seriously doubt there was a legal consensus on the issue. Bush did not preside over the first administration to engage in surveillance (with or without a warrant). Remember COINTELPRO?. The primary responsibility of the Executive branch is to protect national security. Lincoln's suspension of habeaus corpus proved that it trumps all other constitutional liberties. If that was the reason they engaged in wiretapping, then their is a legal basis for their actions, or at least it could be argued, I admit it's problematic.
I am sure the legal consensus was we do not operate under a rule of law and better do what Big Brother says.
Technically we have not been a constitutional government since March 9, 1933 when FDR signed the Wars Powers Act of 1917 as amended in 1933 giving him emergency powers over US civilian citizens. Lincoln started the prescedent. Both Lincoln and FDR are glorified as great Presidents. Also, FEMA was established in 1978 by EO under Carter and their authority expanded under Reagon and Bush Sr. Clinton was accused of authorizing warrantless spying. John Schmidt, who served under Clinton as associate attorney general between 1994 and 1997, argued that both Congress and the Supreme Court have recognized presidents' "inherent authority" to bypass warrants in ordering the eavesdropping of U.S. citizens....
The United States government is operating under emergency rule, outside of the United States constitution, as stated in the following quote from a 1973 Senate Report.
"Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency....Under the powers delegated by these statutes, the President may: seize property; organize and control the means of production; seize commodities; assign
military forces abroad; institute martial law; seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens."
Since 1933 we have lived under emergency rule. Freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency....from, at least, the Civil War in important ways shaped the present phenomenon of a permanent state
of national emergency." Senate Report, 93rd Congress, November 19, 1973
So why is that a bad thing? The Constitution was meant to be a living document.
Well, it's a corpse now.
It comes down to a reality we all hate to admit. "The Political and Corporate Elite" could care less about the Constitution or human life....It is still Greed and Power. They will protect one another until they have all the gold, all the money, and all the oil.
Code Pink Ladies are on the terrorist list and so are another 1.5 million activists and citizens. Why ? The CIA, ISI, Mossad , and the Saudis have created so many false passports for so many terrorists, they themselves have lost track of what identities they use......My guess is that every terrorist out there, at one time or other, was funded by either the CIA, Mossad, or Saudi Arabia (One must remember that the Mossad created Hamas in 1987 to counter the PLO at the same time the United States and Saudi Arabia were funding Al Qaeda.)
The CIA's independent investment agency, In-Q-Tel, has invested billions in data mining. Whether it is Peter Thiel or James Breyer as Board of Directors for Facebook and their links to In-Q-Tel, there is an "Evil" about collecting data on every citizen and we have not seen the end of it.
We have had mysterious suicides and plane accidents to eliminate witnesses to the election fraud of 2004. We have had mysterious plane accidents and suicides with regards to 9/11 activists seeking an independent investigation. We have had mysterious suicides and accidents with people who were involved in the movement of atomic weapons to the staging area at Barksdale AFB, Louisiana. We have had mysterious suicides and murders with regards to the Washington Madam Case. When "The Elite" are threatened by "Truth", people start mysteriously disappearing.
The NSA was monitoring all phone calls from and to Osama Bin Laden from the late 1990's. The NSA knew exactly where he was from 1997 through 2001. That is not a secret.
Which is more important, "The Rule of Law" or a "Fascist State" that can do whatever it wants to its people?
If Bush's wrongdoing is investigated and prosecuted, will Obama's support of that wrongdoing result in any negative consequences for him? Will anyone have standing to bring charges against Obama for refusing to defend and protect the Constitution, for instance?
What I see Obama doing is leaving a bush policy in place until he has a chance to examine it thoroughly and then changing it as neccesssary. Perhaps he is keeping power to fight Plutocracy. Or perhaps his motive are less honorable.
Well, when you wake up from your sweet dream and confront your last sentence, good luck.
Democrats and Republicans are joined at the hip on this issue. One is more in your face on it than the other, thats all. The Dems just work a bit harder on maintaining the myth and illusions, but behind closed doors, their agenda is the same.
Mi 6:47 ------- Their agenda may be the same on surveillance and foreign aggression. Obama has thrown down the gaunlet on social issues. If his taxes are truly collected from rich and corportions, and honestly applied to health and education, then there is truly a social change for the better.
The tax will be collected from your children and grand children, he is giving more back to the corporations in bail outs than he will receive in additional taxes, so the national debt will continue to grow. Unless he changes the system of money creation (Fed), not to mention the costs of immigration (legal and illegal) there will be no money for health and education.
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff02262009.html
"Obama’s health care plans are a recipe for failure. There is no way that this nation’s health care cost and access problems can be solved that includes the insurance industry as a part of it. The key to solving them is having the government become the paymaster, as every other modern society in the world has long since realized. Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, he need only ask some Canadian health officials to come down and set up a version of their system here. For that matter, he could ask the executives at Canadian subsidiaries of US companies operating in Canada—they love the Canadian health care system too!"
Finally, on education, the president missed the point. It’s true that education in the US is a disgrace, that it is grossly unequal in both availability and quality depending upon the race and class of the local students, and that the educational standard of the nation as a whole is in decline. But simply pouring money into schools and into college loan programs won’t solve all this. One answer is to end the crazy idea of having local government be the primary source of funding for education.
A second problem is that Americans have been discovering that getting an education is no ticket to success. Jobs are being shipped overseas so fast these days—including good jobs like engineering and math, and lately even law—that it makes no sense for students to borrow a king’s ransom to pay tuition and learn a trade. If they’re lucky people who earn a PhD in physics may end up managing a Burger King outlet."
And Obama still supports Globalization and Free Trade, so jobs will keep moving away from the US.
The change you see is an illusion.
I think you're right on target - the enthusiasm over Obama has been manufactured in order to evoke the illusion of change. This illusion is extremely useful for many purposes, but primarily because it allows the same policies to be pursued with different apparent justifications. The majority by necessity lives on hope. Nurturing this hope is a key factor in the continuing dominance of the command and control system of which Obama is now the visible symbol. Decent people will endure hardship as long as they believe that those at the top truly have their best interests at heart, but will require sacrifices of them during crises. Obama symbolizes the intelligence, compassion, and unruffled endurance that are required to realize this drama.
Sickening sycophantic ignorance. A crime is a crime. The Bu$h buddies played fast and deviously with the definition of "crime." I sorrow to see everyone continuing to cave in to such crass, common criminals.
I thought Obama's support would wither on the campaign trail when as senator he voted for the FISA bill - signaling that he was letting off Bush and the telcos for Fourth Amendment (domestic spying) violations.
I was wrong. Instead, Obama squeaked by McCain by a few percentage points in the general election to become president.
What does this mean?
Alas, I think it means that well-crafted discussions like Greenwald's fall upon deaf ears. Loyalist Dem voters ride on feel-good emotions and can't be bothered by the details of policies. So there will be no pressure from them to push Obama away from supporting Bush policies, like this domestic spying issue.
Besides, Obama voted for the USA PATRIOT Act - another blow to our inalienable Constitutional rights.
I think it's also crystal clear - as it should be by now to loyalist Dems everywhere - that Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress are one with Bush's illegal actions over the years. Such a fact should cause every loyalist Dem to switch parties, but they didn't do that. And we'll live without a republic until they do so.
-TIA
Here's another theory: The Democrats and Obama are fearful of another large-scale terrorist (false-flag?) attack. If said attack occurs after Obama has returned civil-liberties and prosecuted the Bush crimes, then everyone will say it happened because the Dems are soft on terrorism. They will then lose the next few elections, and the republicans will gain power again and our rights will be no more.
you can speculate about that kind of stuff till yer dead.
9/11 occurred under who again? and that affected the elections how again?
Politically this makes sense, but it evades the larger question of whether massive illegal spying is a proportional response to the threat of a large scale terrorist attack. It's the old question of killing a fly with a cannon. Spying on all communications traffic into and out of the U.S. may uncover a terrorist plot, but it is useful for many other purposes as well. Other law enforcement methods have been found effective for detecting and stopping terrorist plots that do not involve monitoring all communications traffic. In addition, the response seems wildly disproportionate to the level of likely damage. For some reason, the news media wants to focus our attention on terrorist plots while very real threats that are far more threatening to human life such as global warming command far less attention. It seems to me that there is an overarching strategy that both Obama and Bush share. This helps explain for me anyway why their policies on this issue are practically mirror images of each other. I think we need to dig a little deeper to answer the question of why the new DOJ is struggling so hard to maintain Bush's NSA spying program.
I'm not saying that what Bush did after 9-11 makes any sense in fighting terrorism. The entire "war on terror" construct is misguided and even counter-productive. Stop the blind support for Israel and the hypocrisy and the troops in their holy lands if you really want to fight terrorism.
All I'm saying is that the perception will be that the democrats are soft on terrorism if Obama returns our civil-liberties and we're attacked again. The media will pounce, and any progressive movement will end. We'll be back to the authoritarian proto-fascist---with Mitt Romney leading the way.
I thoroughly understand the political reality of Democrats as "soft on terrorism", but I still see a need to understand the wider strategy of illegal spying, which supports an agenda that goes way beyond the phony "war on terror". Obama's denial of civil liberties involves tactics that transcend such a "war" and call us to analyze what the spying indicates about future plans for the American populace.
Once the can of worms was opened by Bush, it makes it very hard for Obama to put them back in. Bush's attack on our civil-liberties may very well have had a motive beyond the "war on terror". "Total Information Awareness" has far reaching implications in the realm of corporate domination---for example. That doesn't mean Obama shares those same goals when it comes to keeping his programs in place---or his "looking forward". It could be a purely political calculation.
FISA was a very well-designed protocol to enable monitoring of telecomm for national security WHILE respecting our legal rights to privacy. Contempt for quality in the name of mediocrity destroyed FISA. FISA, destroyed by the acid of petro-fried privilege/pride. FISA, destroyed by the audacity of imperial hubris! Trade in habeas corpus for a new 2011 model SUV! God Bless the United States of America!
Is it really such a mystery why Obama would follow the same warrantless spying policy as Bush? Power once assumed is rarely relinquished. The implicit assumption behind this whole discussion is that Obama really wants to return to the rule of law which was so egregiously violated by Bush. In fact, it appears that what Obama and the Democrats really want to is to legitimate and normalize the powers that were implicitly granted to the previous administration.
These legal moves are part of a consistent pattern. Earlier this month, Holder invoked the state secrets privilege to quash a case brought on behalf of individuals who were abducted by the CIA, held in secrecy without charges and transported to countries known for their practices to be interrogated under torture. Thus the extraordinary rendition policy of having foreign countries torture suspects on our behalf has been explicitly endorsed by Obama using the same national security grounds as Bush.
In the case cited above, Judge Walker had ruled that "state secrets" do not trump a provision in FISA which authorizes federal district judges, "whenever any motion or request is made by an aggrieved person," and "notwithstanding any other law," to "review in camera and ex parte [confidentially] the application, order, and such other materials relating to the surveillance as may be necessary to determine whether the surveillance of the aggrieved person was lawfully authorized and conducted." Obama's attorneys are asserting that the violation of federal privacy laws must continue in the interests of "national security".
The status quo created by Bush has now been permanently validated by Obama, whose current popularity is being used to quash inconvenient questioning. It appears that those in power foresee the need to rescind such legal protections possibly in view of the social strife that is likely to arise in the next few years due to the economic crisis. I'm open to alternative explanations, but this seems to make the most sense to me politically.
I think you are close: it all smells like sheer stagecraft to me.
This all so disturbing. The big unanswered question is why? Why is Obama covering for Bush, and thereby keeping these pernicious powers in reserve? Perhaps it's too much to ask ANY president to relinquish power.
The best outcome to all of this would be to have congress outlaw these activities---explicitly, and then force Obama to sign or veto---showing everyone what he's truly made of.
But that assumes Congress is any more in opposition to flaunting the Constitution than Obama is. It' ain't, so it won't outlaw any such thing. They're all in this together, with the exception of 3 or 4, proving the rule. The Bush crime wave lives on and will not be countervened!
Why?
The answer is simple.
Follow the money.
Who paid for Obama's presidential bid campaign?
It wasn't the pissant small individual donors.
It was the corporations.
They paid the piper, they call the tune.
Why do you think so many Clinton/Bush corporate lackey retreads are in the Obama cabinet? Why do you think Obama turned to war criminal Henry Kissenger for advice on the Middle East? Why do you think Obama was silent when Israel was using chemical weapons indiscriminantly on the innocent people of Gaza? Why do you think Obama has thrown even more fiat money at the corporations most responsible for the collapse of the world economy?
You people expected change when you 'elected' Obama.
What you should have done was march on the Whitehouse and Supreme Court EIGHT YEARS AGO!
You had your chance.
You get the government you deserve.
And you have.
Walk in peace.
"Who paid for Obama's presidential bid campaign?"
I've heard your argument before, but I've seen no supporting evidence. Study the Opensecrets website and you find that the bulk of Obama's money came from over 2 million small online donators. He got money from PEOPLE who work for Wall St.---maybe less than 10% of his total---maybe more after he won the nomination. Follow the money and you find the people, not the big corporations.
His budget does not favor the corporations either.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638#bli
Do you understand "bundling"?
What the site shows elsewhere is HEAVY corporate involvement in Obama's campaign, much heavier than individual donors.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/bundlers.php?id=N00009638
Do you understand "percentages"?
561 "bundlers" have gathered at least $63,200,000 for Obama. That comes to around 10% of the more than $600,000,000 he hauled in.
Do you understand hauling in $600,000,000? That's astronomically more than any candidate has ever raised. And that meager $63,200,000 doesn't buy those corporations any special access? Or does every shmuck who tossed him 20 bucks have just as much access as any old Fortune 500 corporation? Since after all, there were millions of shmucks throwing money at him, not just a few thousand corporate donors, and every one of those ordinary folks is as important to Obama as any number of CEOs and boards of directors. Right?
The two million shmucks mean more to him than the corporations---when those shmucks give you $540 out of $600 million. That's what I'm saying.
What's next? Obama commissioning the erection of a monument to Bush, the liberator of Iraq? I wonder if he's really been trying hard enough to get David Addington on his staff. Surely Cheney would approve of Addington serving under Obama, since our very progressive president is doing his damndest to keep as many Bush era policies firmly in place as sneaky Dick himself could ever dream of.
In the gentlest spirit of correction, comrade: you're WAY off here. If there's ONE thing you can ABSOLUTELY rely upon, it's that Clinton 2.0 is not commissioning ANY type of erection-- or even GETTING an erection-- during his administration!
I hear they're even spiking his food with saltpeter, just to be on the safe side.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Obd't Sv't: I knew someone would riff on the use of "erection", even if I meant it in the monumental sense. OK, now I'm implying Obama has a monumental erection. But you get what I mean. Pay homage to Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2--it's all pretty much the same thing. The point is, continuity by all means, from one smooth transition to the next, always the same policies gussied up in new language.
Holdonasecond...
Didn't Obama promise 'Hope (tm)' and 'Change (tm)' during his election campaign. And during every speech since being (s)elected?
Between this and the voluntary pay caps for CEO's and the opening of the fiat money tap even wider, it's beginning to look like the new boss is the same as the old boss.
Kinda like giving a Detroit gas guzzler a paint job and more chrome, and calling it 'New' and 'More Efficient'...
Walk in peace.
"Ultimately, the real question is not whether you think Obama will use these powers the same way Bush did (nobody can know that), but rather: do you want the secrecy and detention architecture built by George Bush, Dick Cheney and David Addington to remain in place so that -- even if it remains dormant now -- Obama or some future President can decide at any time to revitalize and use it at will? Thus far, Obama's answer to that question seems to be a resounding "yes.""
You're asking Obama to put himself at a disavantage. If you were going to fight the all powerful oligarchy, wouldn't you want every weapon at your disposal? This is David vs Goliath. There are plenty of other crimes the Bushites can be tried for.
ezeflyer,
Good point, and we'll see what becomes of the use of "these powers".
You're a persistent poster in defense of President Obama, and I applaud your efforts here. I enjoy online visits here and Daily Kos.
Several months ago a friend of Lina Newhouser posted that her last public political act was placing an Obama sign on another friend's lawn, so I feel we're in good company!
eze --- I was thinking similiar. Perhaps Obama is preparing to resist a proletariat, inflamed by the MSM plutocracy, rioting against its own best interests.
How would David use state secrets privelege to fight the oligarchy?
If the watchers are already watching, wouldn't the watchers watch David as he watches the watchers?
Not if he watches the watchers that watch him first.
'David' is now recognised by historians to be a guerilla fighter involved in the ongoing war of colonisation and genocide against the Philistines.
Walk in peace.