Why Do Feinstein and Wyden Sound Much Different on the Torture Issue Now?
But it's actually somewhat worse even than Scherer suggests. According to Mark Mazzetti and Scott Shane, who wrote the article, Feinstein and Wyden are just two of the "senior Democratic lawmakers" who have "seemed reluctant in recent interviews to commit the new administration to following the Army Field Manual in all cases" -- despite the fact that both Feinstein and Wyden said throughout the year that they emphatically favored such a measure and even co-sponsored legislation requiring it.
From the Times article: "in an interview on Tuesday, Mrs. Feinstein indicated that extreme cases might call for flexibility." And: "'I think that you have to use the noncoercive standard to the greatest extent possible,' she said, raising the possibility that an imminent terrorist threat might require special measures." Wyden's comments were even worse:
Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, another top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, said he would consult with the C.I.A. and approve interrogation techniques that went beyond the Army Field Manual as long as they were “legal, humane and noncoercive.” But Mr. Wyden declined to say whether C.I.A. techniques ought to be made public.
What makes this so notable is that, for the last year, Feinstein and Wyden were both insistent that the only way to end torture and restore America's standing in the world was to require CIA compliance with the Army Field Manual -- period. But as long as George Bush was President, it was cheap and easy for Feinstein and Wyden to argue that, because they knew there was no chance it would ever happen. As they well knew, they lacked the votes to override Bush's inevitable veto of any such legislation. So as long as Bush was President, it was all just posturing, strutting around demanding absolute anti-torture legislation they knew would never pass.
But that has all changed now. Although Obama's top intelligence adviser, John Brennan, has questioned whether it was necessary or wise to do so, Obama himself said repeatedly and unequivocally during the campaign that he supports legislation to compel CIA compliance with the Army Field Manual, making it virtually impossible for him to veto any such legislation if Congress passes it. Thus, Senate Democrats now know that if they pass the law they claimed so vehemently to support, it would actually get enacted.
So now, suddenly, Feinstein and Wyden are sending at least preliminary signals that they are far more "flexible" on the issue -- I believe the all-justifying catchword in vogue now is "pragmatic" -- than they ever were before. What had been an unequivocal principle has instantly transformed into caveat-riddled buzzphrases. I'm sure we'll be hearing shortly -- from many precincts -- that those of us who insist that Democrats fulfill their commitment to compel the CIA's compliance in all cases with the extant Army Field Manual (not some brand new, more permissive set of guidelines written and issued in secret and which provides for exceptions), are guilty of being dreaded "ideologues," purity trolls and civil liberties extremists.
Just to get a flavor for how unequivocal Democrats had been on this issue, here is a statement Feinstein herself issued on October 15 -- less than two months ago:
U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) today denounced the Bush Administration's secret approval of torture methods used by the CIA during interrogations, and renewed her call for all U.S. intelligence agencies to be required to follow the Army Field Manual's rules on interrogations. . . .
"To me, this further demonstrates why a single standard for interrogations across all branches of the government - including the CIA - is necessary," Senator Feinstein said. "I believe it is very dangerous not to set this standard across the board, and the only document that does this is the revised Army Field Manual. The abuses we've seen at Guantanamo, at Abu Ghraib, and in Afghanistan clearly show the spillover results of allowing the CIA to engage in coercive interrogations.
Let's repeat what Feinstein said: "the only document that does this is the revised Army Field Manual."
In an Op-Ed she co-wrote last February with Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse for The San Diego Union-Tribune, urging the President to sign their bill to compel the CIA's compliance with the Army Field Manual (co-sponsored by Sen. Wyden), Feinstein was just as emphatic:
Here's why this is so important:
It is the right thing to do. . . .
Our intelligence agencies would be able to effectively interrogate detainees – by using 19 techniques that are today used with success by the military . . . .
The Army Field Manual has been in use for decades. It was updated in 2006 to reflect lessons learned from combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. . . .
The 19 interrogation techniques authorized by the Army Field Manual come with strict protocols for their use. Most of these techniques involve psychological approaches – for example, making a prisoner believe cooperation could save his country by ending a war more quickly. Military commanders say these methods produce good intelligence.
And listen to the unequivocal vow Feinstein made, as reported by CQ on April 28, 2008:
“The CIA has heard the message that a majority in both houses of Congress want the uniform standard provided by the Army field manual,” [Feinstein] said the day before Bush vetoed the 2008 bill in March. “We will not stop until it becomes law.”
After the House failed to override the veto, Feinstein said, “We’ll just keep sending it back, and he can keep vetoing it.”
"We will not stop until it becomes law."
Wyden has been just as emphatic, giving a speech on the Senate floor in supporting Feinstein's no-exceptions bill (which he himself co-sponsored) back in February in which he said:
With respect to the role of the military, they already abide by interrogation rules that are flexible and effective. They have been used by professional military interrogators with many years of experience and they are clearly effective . . .
The Army Field Manual actually makes it quite clear which techniques are authorized for all service members and which require special permission. So there it is, the need for this legislation - just on the basis of the developments of the last few weeks - is even more important than it was.
There was no talk whatsoever by either of them of the need for "flexibility" in "extreme cases" or using noncoercive measures only "to the greatest extent possible" or the need for "special measures" in times of heightened threat environments or "approv[ing] interrogation techniques that went beyond the Army Field Manual" or the need to have the interrogation laws be kept secret -- all the things which Feinstein and Wyden are suddenly telling The New York Times they are now considering. What changed?
What is needed in order to put an end to the Bush torture regime are absolute, unequivocal, and transparent legal prohibitions governing interrogations, ones that are devoid of ambiguity, flexibility and secrecy. Feinstein and Wyden certainly purported to recognize exactly that all year long when, as they well knew, they weren't in a position to do anything about it. Now that they are, they ought to follow through on what they repeatedly said they intended to do.
Obviously, the CIA can and should develop specific interrogation tactics that are classified, but only within the parameters of unambiguous and fully disclosed laws. As Feinstein and Wyden have argued -- correctly -- all year long, the Army Field Manual authorizes robust and effective interrogation techniques, and there is no reason to re-write it for the CIA or to carve out exceptions to it.
Anyone who doubts that should just read this Washington Post Op-Ed from the military interrogator who used those techniques in Iraq to find Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and who wrote that they were far more effective than techniques that go beyond the Field Manual. And, as Mazzetti and Shane reported: "a dozen retired generals and admirals are to meet with senior Obama advisers to urge him to stand firm against any deviation from the military’s noncoercive interrogation rules."
Several members of Congress, such as Rush Holt, have called on Obama not to wait for Congress to act and, instead, to immediately issue an Executive Order compelling government-wide compliance with the Army Field Manual. Obama should do that. But, as Holt recognizes, this is really an area where Congress can and must legislate.
For that to happen, Feinstein and Wyden need to return to the clear, principled position they claimed to believe in throughout the year. All this sudden talk of exceptions and "special measures" and new, secret guidelines do nothing but cloud an issue where absolute clarity is most needed. That's exactly the wrong message to be sending -- both about the authenticity of the Democrats' pledge to end torture and about the country's intent to cleanse itself of the abuses of the last eight years.
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37 Comments so far
Show AllWords fail to express my loathing of Dianne Feinstein and her war-profiting hubby.
If you vote in California, please work to defeat her, even if she's running against Satan himself.
-TIA
If they really believe "some flexibility" in torturing an individual could be necessary, they shouldn't need it enshrined in law, since they would be able to prove there was no other option, it was essential, it was effective, and saved a nucelar holocaust, for example. The official concerned would be viewed as a patriot. But they'd better fulfil all those conditions or they would have the full weight of international law thrown at them.
I think you might find them less neurotic about the possibility of such a situation arising, the law would not be passed, and no torturing patriot would be created. All of a sudden, the official "worriers" would miraculously regain their peace of mind, and no more would be heard about it.
Love is all you need.
George C. Brown - With a new Administration, let's shed ALL of the garbage that came from the Cheney/Bush regime, and get back to being a civilized nation: NO TORTURE - period! Abide strictly by the Geneva Conventions, no ifs, ands or buts about it!
Has anyone considered that Feinstein has muted her rhetoric because she was told to by her new leader?
George,
You nailed it: Let's get back to being civilized!
I wholeheartedly agree. But imagine the can of worms it will open, if like in the Nuremburg trials, all involved from top to bottom are investigated and arraigned. This is the reason that there will be no legal actions forthcoming from an Obama administration. The threads of guilt are long, deep and diversely woven.
Well said!
Well, gosh and golly gee - who would have ever thought that, once they gained power, the Democrats would show themselves to be the same lying, manipulative, two-faced power-mongers as the Republicans.
Democrat, Republican -- there's only ONE party - AND WE'RE NOT INVITED!
Vote third party!
Dianne (DIFI) is considering a run for governor of California and that is the ONLY reason she's now backtracking on her past positions supporting just about everything Bush has wanted.
SHE is totally culpable for a host of wrong votes made after an overwhelming number of her constituents took the opposite position. Most egregious was her repeated stands AGAINST IMPEACHMENT.
We now have a daily headline from Bush of each new regulation he's shoving through to destroy the country before he leaves office. DIANNE is as RESPONSIBLE as BUSH since she abdicated her responsibility to uphold the constitution and to represent her constituency.
I think it was during her VOTE FOR THE BAILOUT that she cavalierly stated that she knew better than the thousands upon thousands who told her to vote NO. Well, guess what Difi, you're OUR EMPLOYEE, not our queen.
Governor? I don't think so.
###
until working, middle class, americans take to the streets like the latinos and others did in 2006 did against the racist immigration bills.
nothing will change in d.c.
nothing
Here is a way we can change everything: http://www.thoughts.com/RedNeckPossie/blog/a-way-to-give-power-back-to-the-people-184665/
Nice effort, but your career as a satirist hangs by a thread.
What you talkin' 'bout, Goebbels?
My apologies. I thought you were funnin' us with your original message, but i see from subsequent posts you actually believe what you're saying.
Carry on ... any snide replies from me in the future will be in the form of actual rebuttal.
Goebbels, since I sometimes post satire at first I thought, this guy cannot be that uninformed, this must be satire, so I guess I was wrong also!
."You will never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
P.T. Barnum
Joe seems either brainwashed or he plays one on TV.....
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
As a constituent of hers, this flip-flop is no surprise. She voted for the India Nuke pact and I questioned her vote.
I received a 2 page letter containing 1 3/4 pages of why the pact should NOT be approved and a 1 sentence statement that essentially said but I voted for it anyway.
If anyone doubts the stranglehold of the Military-Industrial Complex over all of our lives, the increasing use of the term 'pragmatic' should cure that.
I am surprised that Obama's controllers are letting the populace see the true extent of corporate control before the inaugral.
When people voted for 'Change Now', little did they suspect that it would be for the worse. The rule of the 'Haves' over the 'Have-nots' appears to be tightening.
Now we are beginning to understand why the Dems made no move to repeal any of the acts and/or directives that shredded our constitutional rights under Clinton and Bush.
But I could be wrong ! But not this time.
There is only one dance at the Democratic party.
Take a step to the right, take another step to the right, take another...
As someone else said, this election boiled down to the guy who wanted to keep Gates as Defense Secretary and the guy who is keeping Gates as Defense Secretary.
Will the most insignificant pipsqueak of a Progressive voice be allowed in Washington? So far, so bad.
Just as it did in 2006, when we all breathed a huge sigh of relief and expected change, we are rapidly going back to "business as usual."
Geneva Conventions? Quaint. Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Naive. Constitution and Bill of Rights? Old hat. Nuremberg Principles? Too restrictive for a fascist government.
Billions for war? Right on! Billions for Gambling addicted CEO's who stood a chance of having a bit of the gold knocked off their parachutes? Name the figure, we'll sign.
Add a few cents to the minimum wage? Look at us, we're heroes!
Cut food stamp limits so our veteran's families and the unemployed can't have enough food to feed their families? Times are tough and somebody has to sacrifice.
Impeach the lying, criminal bastards that have driven our nation to bankruptcy, slaughtered well over a million people whose only crime is living on top of SOME of the oil we covet? Oh, no, if we make an example of them, someone may make us accountable for our crimes against "We the People" and the world in general.
Presidents used to select a cabinet. Now it is a "National Security Team." Don't expect any substantive change, just new window dressing. Torture will continue, people will still be disappeared, the concentration camps will not be torn down. Some of the more high profile places such as Gitmo may close (but they will just be mothballed) and the Dems will cheer, like Little Jack Horner, "Oh what a good boy am I!" (Meanwhile, back in the gulag...)
Sadly true, but brilliant comments ---
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
"Feinstein and Wyden need to return to the clear, principled position they claimed to believe in throughout the year."
Principled and Politician don't belong in the same sentence.
Feinstein is like the dog that actually catches the car.
If the CIA were, ah, smart, they'd say no problem, anything you want, then continue doing whatever they wanted to do while denying they've done anything 'wrong,' as they have always done.
Cause the truth is, a majority of "us" have no problem with "terrorists" being tortured, and actually like the idea that the message to the world is: don't f**k with America or we will seriously f**k with you.
Dianne Feinstein is a Blue Dog Democrat who has consistently voted with Republicans on a host of bills before Congress. No surprise here.
The Army Field Manual was written so that interrogation methods were limited by, and in accordance with, the Geneva Conventions.
Speculatively speaking, if the CIA were obliged to adopt the manual, they'd find themselves in the business of conducting espionage that is governed by the rule of international law.
Can't have that can now can we? Spies in Nuremburg docks, I ask you!
Democrats stink. Sure, there's "a difference" between the two parties: the Democrats are more two-faced. At least the Republicans more or less tell you how they're going to stick it to you, straight-up.
Note that Greenwald complains, "I'm sure we'll be hearing shortly...that those of us who insist that Democrats fulfill their commitment to compel the CIA's compliance in all cases with the extant Army Field Manual ....are guilty of being dreaded "ideologues," purity trolls and civil liberties extremists..."
- Even beyond the issue of CIA compliance with the Army Field Manual, this is PRECISELY the treatment that liberals (ie, Dem Party apologists) routinely dish out to those on the real Left. This describes perfectly how the Obama apologists treated Nader supporters, Greens & socialists in the run-up to the election; and how they now treat Obama's Left critics. In the liberal mind, anyone who criticizes Democrats is "a purity troll."
I'm no fan of Dianne Feinstein, but Think Progress has an article indicating that the NYT misquoted Senator Feinstein by deleting an important sentence from what she actually said thereby apparently distorting her position: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/feinstein-nyt-torture/
I am, however, a fan of Glenn Greenwald but am disappointed if he didn't do his homework before writing this article. As for Senator Wyden we will have to go to his office to discover his real position.
Fallen & . ./.__can't-Get-UP?
http://flickr.com/photos/videolux/3050810586/
And here I thought it would be impossible to slide further to the right in replacing Rockefeller as Intelligence Committee chair. Then again, I assumed a Democrat would be appointed to the position.
Meet the new boss!
Same as the old boss!
Thanks for the laugh!! :)
Writing as a California constituent of Diane Feinstein whom has followed her career since her buddy Dan White made her Mayor of San Fransisco (Jello Biafra has described her as "a dragon lady to a tea" in his spoken word when he ran against her for mayor), it is not surprising she is waffling on an important issue and voting more in line with Republicans than her own professed party, as she has shown a consistent pattern of doing this (she was pivotal in getting Michael Mukasey confirmed as Attorney General) over the years. In fact, she is the quintessential corporate Democrat whom the habituates of this site have come to despise.
www.wunderman-comics.com
Why are people so surprised that the Democrats do exactly what they've done throughout their 200-year history. They have ALWAYS supported and engaged in torture, ever since the days they used torture to break recalcitrant slaves. They have ALWAYS supported war, every war the US has ever been in. They have NEVER ever investigated abuses in the military, or accusations of torture, or war crimes. The Democrats are a right-wing, corporate party devoted to endless war and propagating corporate power. That's what they've always been, and what they will always be. Why do people keep expecting this leopard to change their spots? They mouth platitudes for political purposes, but the reality is that they are very, very corrupt, violent, dishonest people, some of the worst the world has ever seen.
D. Feinstein is worth millions. Her hubby is another of those smooth white collar MoFo's who holds a glass of extremely expensive wine in one hand while he is picking your pocket with the other. I prefer political criminals like Randy "Duke" Cunningham and Jack Abramoff; they don't ptetend to be anything other than what they are: hustlers.
How true! Check the Kurt Nimmo article at Infowars: "CFR-Brookings to Dominate Obama 'Strategy'".
Should there be any surprise? They used rhetoric against torture to see themselves elected.
They never really BELIEVED any of it.
pk