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Rx and the Single Payer
In 2003, a young Illinois state senator named Barack Obama told an AFL-CIO meeting, "I am a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program."
Single payer. Universal. That's health coverage, like Medicare, but for everyone who wants it. Single payer eliminates insurance companies as pricey middlemen. The government pays care providers directly. It's a system that polls consistently have shown the American people favoring by as much as two-to-one.
There was only one thing standing in the way, Obama said six years ago: "All of you know we might not get there immediately because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate and we have to take back the House."
Fast forward six years. President Obama has everything he said was needed -- Democrats in control of the executive branch and both chambers of Congress. So what's happened to single payer?
A woman at his town hall meeting in New Mexico last week asked him exactly that. "If I were starting a system from scratch, then I think that the idea of moving towards a single-payer system could very well make sense," the President replied. "That's the kind of system that you have in most industrialized countries around the world.
"The only problem is that we're not starting from scratch. We have historically a tradition of employer-based health care. And although there are a lot of people who are not satisfied with their health care, the truth is, is that the vast majority of people currently get health care from their employers and you've got this system that's already in place. We don't want a huge disruption as we go into health care reform where suddenly we're trying to completely reinvent one-sixth of the economy."
So the banks were too big to fail and now, apparently, health care is too big to fix, at least the way a majority of people indicate they would like it to be fixed, with a single payer option. President Obama favors a public health plan competing with the medical cartel that he hopes will create a real market that would bring down costs. But single payer has vanished from his radar.
Nor is single payer getting much coverage in the mainstream media. Barely a mention was given to the hundreds of doctors, nurses and other health care professionals who came to Washington last week to protest the absence of official debate over single payer.
Is it the proverbial tree falling in the forest, making a noise that journalists can't or won't hear? Could the indifference of the press be because both the President of the United States and Congress have been avoiding single payer like, well, like the plague? As we see so often, government officials set the agenda by what they do and don't talk about.
Instead, President Obama is looking for consensus, seeking peace among all the parties involved. Except for single payer advocates. At that big White House powwow in Washington last week, the President asked representatives of the health care business to reason together with him. "What's brought us all together today is a recognition that we can't continue down the same dangerous road we've been traveling for so many years," he said, "that costs are out of control; and that reform is not a luxury that can be postponed, but a necessity that cannot wait."
They came, listened, made nice for the photo op. and while they failed to participate in a hearty chorus of "Kumbaya," they did promise to cut health care costs voluntarily over the next ten years. The press ate it up -- and Mr. Obama was a happy man.
Meanwhile, some of us looking on -- those of us who've been around a long time -- were scratching our heads. Hadn't we heard this before?
Way, way back in the 1970's Americans were riled up over the rising costs of health care. As a presidential candidate, Jimmy Carter started talking about the government clamping down. When he got to the White House, drug makers, insurance companies, hospitals and doctors -- the very people who only a decade earlier had done everything they could to strangle Medicare in the cradle -- seemed uncharacteristically humble and cooperative. "You don't have to make us cut costs," they promised. "We'll do it voluntarily."
So Uncle Sam backed down, and you guessed it. Pretty soon medical costs were soaring higher than ever.
By the early '90s, the public was once again hurting in the pocketbook. Feeling our pain, Bill and Hillary Clinton tried again, coming up with a plan only slightly more complicated than the schematics for an F-18 fighter jet.
This time the health industry acted more like Tony Soprano than Mother Teresa. It bludgeoned the Clinton reforms with one of the most expensive and deceitful public relations and advertising campaigns ever conceived -- paid for, of course, from the industry's swollen profits.
As the drug and insurance companies, hospitals and doctors dumped the mangled carcass of reform into the Potomac, securely encased in concrete, once again they said don't worry; they would cut costs voluntarily.
If you believed that, we've got a toll-free bridge to the Mayo Clinic we'd like to sell you.
So anyone with any memory left could be excused for raising their eyebrows at the health care industry's latest promises. As if on cue, hardly had their pledge of volunteerism rung out across the land than Jay Gellert, chief executive of Health Net Inc. and chair of the lobbying group America's Health Insurance Plans, assured his pals not to worry abut the voluntary reductions. "We believe that we can do it without undermining the viability of companies," he said, "and in effect enhancing the payment to physicians and hospitals." In other words, their so-called voluntary "reforms" will in no way interfere with maximizing profits.
Also last week, John Lechleiter, the chief executive of drug giant Eli Lilly, blasted universal health care in a speech before the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. "I do not believe that policymakers have yet arrived at a full and complete diagnosis of what's wrong and what's right with U.S. health care," he declared. "And I am very concerned that some of the proposed policies -- the treatments, to continue my metaphor -- will have unintended side-effects that make our situation worse."
So why bother with the charm offensive on Pennsylvania Avenue? Could it be, as some critics suggest, a Trojan horse, getting the health industry a place at the table so they can leap up at the right moment and again kill any real reform?
Wheelers and dealers from the health sector aren't waiting for that moment. According to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, they've spent more than $134 million on lobbying in the first quarter of 2009 alone. And some already are shelling out big bucks for a publicity blitz and ads attacking any health care reform that threatens to reduce the profits from sickness and disease.
The Washington Post's health care reform blog reported Monday that Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina has hired an outside PR firm to put together a video campaign assaulting Obama's public plan. And this month alone, the group Conservatives for Patients' Rights is spending more than a million dollars for attack ads. They've hired a public relations firm called CRC -- Creative Response Concepts. You remember them -- the same high-minded folks who brought you the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the gang who savaged John Kerry's service record in Vietnam.
The ads feature the chairman of Conservatives for Patients' Rights, Rick Scott. Who's he? As a former deputy inspector general from the Department of Health and Human Services told The New York Times, "He hopes people don't Google his name."
Scott's not a doctor; he just acts like one on TV. He's an entrepreneur who took two hospitals in Texas and built them into the largest health care chain in the world, Columbia/HCA. In 1997, he was fired by the board of directors after Columbia/HCA was caught in a scheme that ripped off the Feds and state governments for hundreds of millions of dollars in bogus Medicare and Medicaid payments, the largest such fraud in history. The company had to cough up $1.7 billion dollars to get out of the mess.
Rick Scott got off, you should excuse the expression, scot-free. Better than, in fact. According to published reports, he waltzed away with a $10 million severance deal and $300 million worth of stock. So much for voluntarily lowering overhead.
With medical costs rising six percent per year, that's who's offering himself as a spokesman for the health care industry. Speaking up for single payer is Geri Jenkins, a president of the California Nurses Association and National Nurses Organizing Committee -- a registered nurse with literal hands-on experience.
"We're there around the clock," she told our colleague Jessica Wang. "So we feel a real sense of obligation to advocate for the best interests of our patients and the public. Now, you can talk about policy but when you're staring at a human face it's a whole different story."
- Posted in





164 Comments so far
Show AllWe already know Obama spins tall tales circa 2003. Many also asserted that Obama would change the system. Turns out the system changed him. What else is new?
Obama's lame excuse that single payer is not viable because most Americans get their medical insurance from their employers can only be described as devious.
I am 57 years old and could retire from my recession-proof family wage job (where I pay $75 per person per month for medical insurance)tomorrow if single payer were in place. My employer makes available a group insurance policy that costs retirees $700.00 PER PERSON per month with no cap (It could go to $1,400.00 or more next month). There are millions of other boomers who, like me will stay in their family wage jobs for an additional 5, 10, 15 or 20 years beyond their planned retirement date solely for the employer-provided medical insurance.
The result of us boomers delaying our retirement is millions of young Americans remaining underemployed or unemployed for many years as we boomers continue to hoard the family wage jobs until medicare kicks in at age 65.
It appears that Obama will succeed in implementing his pro-pharma, pro-insurance industry, criminalize the uninsured, start taxing employer-provided insurance legislation.
Let's hope that young Americans who supported Obama in 2008 remember that he and the Democratic Party-controlled US Congress are the cause of their unemployment and underemployment when they vote in 2010 and 2012
Current health care policies keep us wage slaves in our place. That is why they like things just the way they are.
Yes, and they also continue to make enlisting in the military a viable option for young people who can't find jobs with benefits and are tempted by the offer of health care and education that come with military service.
"the truth is, is that the vast majority of people currently get health care from their employers."
That's disingenuous, rather than devious. Most couples have one person who doesn't get their health insurance from their employer but from the spouse's employer. When they split up, one person becomes uninsured. The much touted COBRA is a mirage for most as the monthly premium for even that kind of truly restrictive and piss-poor coverage and total absence of choice I had when about to be divorced 3 years ago was going to cost me $900+ a month, a sum I couldn't even imagine paying.
Take in the move in the last couple of decades from full-time employment to part time--no health insurance at all, add in the frequent unemployment and switches from one dead-end job to the next, it it gets worse still. And in some states medicaid is very restricted.
But now we know: Obama's going for HillaryCare. The insurance and pharmaceutical corporations are already recording the propaganda and donating to those who want to continue the status quo. And that supposedly brilliantly clever man in the WH will not achieve anything. In fact it could be that the poor slobs about to be unconstitutionally locked up for the duration of the 1,000-Year-War on Terror, may just be some of the few who actually do have access to government-provided doctoring, thus proving that Nazis still have wonderful healthcare.
Dr. Mengele would be slobbering.
Rainborowe
The most insidious fraud being perpetrated by Obama and his cohort of corporate liberals is the "public-option" plan. This proposal, although it purports to offer an appealing "public plan" as an alternative to the private insurers, is simply more of the same. Here's why:
The advantage of single-payer is in risk pooling--everyone is in the same pool: well, sick, young, old, sick, and poor, thus averaging out the risks and costs of guaranteeing coverage to everyone. In the "public-option plan," everyone is NOT in the same risk pool, as they would be in single payer. In a "pub-op" plan, the oldest, sickest, and poorest would end up in the public plan--the youngest and healthiest cohort would aggressively marketed by the private HMOs, because that's where the profits are. Hence the whole advantage of single-payer risk pooling would be lost: the whole point is to combine EVERYONE's resources (through taxation rather than private premiums) so that the healthy 80 percent subsidize the unhealthy 20 percent and thus achieve overall cost efficiencies not obtainable if these two groups are in separate pools. In a pub-op plan, the public sector, saddled with the sickest and oldest 20 percent, will incur unmanageable per capita costs and will be made to look unworkable. Moreover, it will have to charge premiums and impose deductibles, just like the private plans. It would be just more of the same, notwithstanding the "public" branding.
This is the sham in the making that is the Stark-Hacker-Obama pub-op plan: game the system so that the public sector founders, thus discrediting the idea of publicly funded health care for another generation. Pub-op is a Trojan Horse for the HMOs--a wolf in sheep's clothing, lipstick on a pig--chose your cliche, but that's what it is. What it is NOT is the real reform the public needs--it's just another scam to keep the private insurers in business--the HMOs Plan B to gull the public into believing that it is getting some kind of "reform."
A publicly funded plan can achieve real cost efficiencies ONLY through true risk pooling--that means EVERYONE IN--everyone in the same pool. That means single-payer Medicare for all. Pub-op is not a step toward single-payer--it's a sham, a step into the abyss.
Oops--inadvertent double post. I have deleted the duplicate comment--see my post above.
v.purto
We can be sure that nothing will change. The system is ossified. Touch 16% of economy with single-payer universal system and watch how yet another 16% of economy will go down te tube as health insurance companies' shares plammet to zero. With that 16% of our pension plans will go in smoke. So, it will stay intact all the way over the cliff. Amen.
Change is coming. You just have to wait and give it some time. All this silly whining and shouting by the purists only causes more trouble. Patience my friend, patience.
v.purto
Re: Change is coming.
Sure, change is coming but not through all president's men. Change is coming through mass movement and that will not be pretty. What I tried to point out is that our system is beyond reform.
Change came from mass movements during the Great Depression. Unfortunately, no such mass movements exist. Instead, all we see are bedwetting crybaby purists or mentally unstable crackpots relying on astrological predictions to predict the end of the world. The advocates for single payer killed the chances by getting too out of control and even turning out to be trouble makers. We elect politicians and let them show us what they have to offer. If we don't like it, we simply vote them out next time. All this disorderly conduct does nothing to make change possible. If you don't like what the Democrats are doing, then vote them out in 2010 and 2012 and let the Republicans bring in some darker days ahead but don't come to me when the Republicans give more to the giant drug and insurance companies because you put them there. It's time to shut up and lower all those silly high expectations.
Sioux Rose
NEBRASKA NATHAN: You are a paid schill, highly uninformed, and an enabler of EVERYTHING that's morally wrong and deadly about the corporate state. I guess you were as the song goes, "born under a bad sign" that you see fit to castigate a field that you are even more ignorant about than politics.
This article runs chillingly parallel to the same disease that showed itself in the banker bailout. When only BIG MONEY has a seat at the table, everything worth anything is sacrificed. And that means what's important to the value of our lives as citizens.
America has come to the point in its evolution where it serves only two masters: Mammon (big $) and Mars (the military-industrial complex). The marriage of these two principles, the darkest ones on the wheel of time and destiny, spells disaster. Of course the vultures who resonate with these destructive principles now lushly feed off disaster capitalism like the vultures (they are) who have seized upon ready prey. That's all humanity is to the likes of these.
-I guess you were as the song goes, "born under a bad sign" that you see fit to castigate a field that you are even more ignorant about than politics.
Me thinks thine readings of the stars doth spell truth, Sioux Rose.
Sioux Rose
JLOCKE: Thank you. Mr. Nathan reminds me of a disorderly dog that keeps sniffing up my skirt. I would like to just slap him across the face, but the internet only allows me to do so virtually.
"You are a paid schill, highly uninformed, and an enabler of EVERYTHING that's morally wrong and deadly about the corporate state. I guess you were as the song goes, "born under a bad sign" that you see fit to castigate a field that you are even more ignorant about than politics."
Yawn. I may own a lot of stock in defense, banking, insurance, pharma, etc ... but even Nader did it and none of you complained about it and still worship that sore loser. Plus, you can get the money you need in the event you can't pay off your debts or something. The more I'm getting, the more I'll be ready to more into a McMansion. The only obstacle is my pesky wife who can be such a purist pig squeeler like you. If she hadn't bugged me into giving up corn-growing, we wouldn't be taking a profit loss. I know growing loads of corn can deplete the soil but we have to be practical here. Without us corn growers, there won't be enough food to feed this god damn planet already ! Maybe I ought to beat the crap out of my wife and bury her. Mother Earth can have her while I can enjoy being a tough asskicking farmer ! She couldn't give birth to kids but then again can't take chances as them darn kids would've probably turned out to be pesky idiots ala Red Rick and JenniferBedingfield.
"This article runs chillingly parallel to the same disease that showed itself in the banker bailout. When only BIG MONEY has a seat at the table, everything worth anything is sacrificed. And that means what's important to the value of our lives as citizens."
I don't like the bank bailouts either but now that the banks are doing better now and I can safely invest in their stocks and earn some extra money, who cares?
"America has come to the point in its evolution where it serves only two masters: Mammon (big $) and Mars (the military-industrial complex). The marriage of these two principles, the darkest ones on the wheel of time and destiny, spells disaster. Of course the vultures who resonate with these destructive principles now lushly feed off disaster capitalism like the vultures (they are) who have seized upon ready prey. That's all humanity is to the likes of these."
Astology, just like religion, is nothing but a disease and a scam. There is nothing to gain by predicting doom and gloom all the time and doing nothing about it. So where's Venus anyway, whoring around and messing with other male gods ? You're turning out to be an unstable astrological zombie and are giving me plenty of laughs just like those bedwetters Red Rick and JenniferBedingfield have done. If you want to solve the MIC problem, drop your astrological BS and learn to be practical and realistic. Otherwise, you're just as entertaining as the Looney Tunes cartoons.
Sioux Rose
Not even worthy of a response. You are just plain sick.
That does it. This has gone way too far. Your talking of wanting to beat your wife just because she won't let you be a greedy pig and screw yourself up is totally sick. If it weren't for your wife, where would you be today? Certainly not typing your hate and spew. And since you're a farmer as you claim, your wife must be doing all the house work for you while you're so busy posting all that hate talk of yours, right ? You could learn from your wife about respecting Mother Earth a little more or at least acknowledging your faults and trying to find a better idea or solution instead of acting like a greedy pig about it. I may own an SUV for business purposes but even I acknowledge that I would love to see fuel efficient versions come down in price and repair our dependence on oil by switching to switchgrass based ethanol instead of corn based ethanol. That way I could keep my SUV and spare Mother Earth the damage.
And please stop personally attacking Ms. Rose on her astrological beliefs. She has a right to express a point any way she feels like it. I may not take astrology seriously but I don't go attacking others on it. Just because she was showing her anger doesn't mean you have to act so sick. She may sound abstract to you because you probably never studied the subject of astrology but calling it a disease is totally unworthy.
Sioux Rose
SHAWN: Am I detecting respect or chivalry on your part? If so, thank you for the active defense.
I respect everyone's beliefs even if I don't understand or agree with them. I just can't stand Nathan's violent and greedy behavior here. I may not know a lot about astrology but even at my age of 45, I'm still ready to sit down and learn. Even if I don't get my switchgrass fuel or a better fuel efficient replacement for my current SUV, I still hold hope that by reading these articles and worthwhile comments, I just might muster the will and the courage to go for an earth-friendly job and not worry about the money. I'm thinking of asking my wife to go beyond being a house wife and find a job that's more Mother Earth friendly. Maybe from there, she can make me do the same faster. I still believe that I'm never too old to learn.
That's the spirit Shawn, you can get your stars in alignment at the same time as your SUV's tires!
Sioux Rose
JLOCKE: C'mon, alignment ain't that easy! But if Shawn is sincere, then he and his wife (shades of "if two or more gather and ask in my name, so shall it be done") can definitely generate enough income for life's basic needs if they focus on where their passion is and do something of benefit to others.
Sadly there are many who think as this corn fed Nebraskan does. He pulls Sioux Rose's tail by directly attacking her craft in his desire to negate her wisdom and hopes to inflame anyone who doesn't sanction wife beating... He reads as a very angry and alienated individual... but the fact is that he and many many others do not really understand that cause and affect are the law of reality. Growing prosperous by investing in industries/ethics that are destructive is no different than developing biotoxins in the name of defense. The monsters so created couldn't care less who fed them - they are "equal opportunity" when it comes to destruction.
I find no wisdom in disparaging tirades and name calling directed at differing views. It seems too many posters have no idea that Progressive Community can only flourish with mutual respect. No wonder our nation is in peril when too many seem to think there is only one way worthy of regard - theirs!
The problem with people like Nebraska Nathan is not understanding the role women play in life and why men cannot afford to take them for granted. I may be employed while my wife is a house wife but without her, life would never be the same. I don't know what my life as a single guy would have been like but I know that even if I were a happy single that I'd find myself doing at least twice the work. Men need to appreciate the basic safety nets women are providing for them. Women may not be perfect but there's still a lot to appreciate and respect them for. My wife used to not understand anything about single payer but is starting to understand the more she reads the articles on these progressive sites and the comments too. If I were Nebraska nathan's wife and reading his abusive comments, I'd report him to the local police and file for a divorce with this evidence.
I'm willing to bet that Mother Earth is punishing our healthcare in return for destroying hers and we deserve it until we can all come to our senses and reform for the better. Maybe then, she'll lesson the punishment.
Sioux Rose
SHAWN: Nice post. I wish more men appreciated their women. Eric Butterworth, a very charismatic UNITY speaker in NY has written numerous books and he spoke, as did Edgar Cayce, of this idea of two persons becoming helpmates to each other. When you find someone that you can approach (or share) that ideal with, you are rich indeed!
Remember the study CD published by Robert E. Lane, Professor Emeritus, entitled, "The Loss of Happiness in Market Democracies?" It essentially concluded that persons value happy relationships over material gratification. I don't think there are that many happy marriages and in my view, it's due to so much contention in our nation. We may live in separate bodie and seem to be able to close our doors to the rest of the world, but ultimately on subtle levels we feel and are part of ALL that's going on. Jesus himself taught this as "whatsoever you do unto the least of these is done unto me." And even if atheists challenge the words of Jesus, few would say he was not one of the masters who came to this planet to try to teach enlightenment to virtual Neanderthals. A process... still very much required (and in motion).
Sioux Rose
EARTH LOVER: I appreciate your wise words. I try to contribute words of value to this forum and it does yank my tail (as you put it) to have my opinions tainted or distorted by the few who wish to diminish what Light I can shed in this venue. Persons who share my beliefs have been persecuted for centuries, although ours is supposed to be a time where that type of behavior is passe. I have spent 40 years studying spiritual teachings and mystical schools of thought, astrology being ONE of them, and feel I add to this forum by relating what these researches (added to travel and personal experiences) have taught me. Intelligent debate is always welcome, but those who attack my character or integrity will find that I will hold my ground, and occasionally aim at their jugular. I am here for a reason and it has taken quite a bit of inner fortitude to stand up to critics THIS long, nor is this my first lifetime where such a strategy was required.
Nebraska Nathan;
Take a hint.
Shut up. We know a shill when we see it
Is that you Scott Peterson who tried to kill Laci just to exploit the insurance system? Is that how guys in Nebraska treat women? How's your healthcare system in your state assuming that there's enough of a population that takes the issue seriously unless they've been eating too much korn to think?
So for clarification, you are telling Nebraska Nathan that he was born under a bad sign and that's why he doesn't believe in astrology, or am I missing something? I think that's quite funny. The less logic is used to rebut him the funnier it gets.
How can advocates of Single-payer get meaningful change when they elected a man who claimed that he wanted single-payer, universal care (Medicare for all) and got this other 'single-payer is off the table' Obama instead? We tried to do it by voting. That did not work. Your suggestion to wait is naive, and specious reasoning at best. The Democrats and Republicans both dine at the same trough, filled by the corporate pig-farmers and we get to live in the lagoons of pig-excrement they create...nice how that works. Actually, the only thing that can make change happen in a facist state like this is direct actions taken by grass-roots (not astroturf) organizations. Voting cannot bring change when the media and corporate interests align against the people.
As Thomas Jefferson said, when people fear their government, things are headed down a dangerous path, but when government fears the people, we get positive change. (Note: I have paraphrased Tom's writing here.)
-Voting cannot bring change when the media and corporate interests align against the people.
I'm with you up to that point. "direct action" as in peaceful demostrations, yes. But if you are advocating violence and revolution, sitting at your keyboard, that just makes you sound like an imbecile.
Voting is the best, easiest, smartiest thing you can do to better your country. I know most Americans rarely try it but they should.
Dissing the vote sounds, to the rest of humanity, who either are fighting for the vote, or are thankful that they have it, it sounds like the idle rantings of a retard who hasn't read enough history.
Just having the 'right to vote' is meaningless without substantial differences in candidates. I was not 'dissing' the right to vote, as I consider it a precious responsibility in a true democracy. However, when the only choices on the ballot are those funded by our corporate overlords (and who else can afford to run against these juggernauts), voting ceases to make any real difference in governance...and more direct action is required. It is puerile to believe that we are only to be allowed input into the political process every four years. Not the America I volunteered to protect and to serve when I joined the Navy.
As to your insult, I think I have 'read enough history', compared to the average American. I just fail to see how voting alone can bring a change without an informed populace, which the MSM is working overtime to subvert. Perhaps it is equally important to know who wrote whatever is being passed off as history, which is notorious for being created by the winners...I will pass on the opportunity to exchange name-calling taunts with you at this time, as they might be seen as "the idle rantings of a retard".
As for the form of 'direct action' needed, I advocate non-violent forms first above all. If that does not work, we will need to consider whatever alternatives are left to us.
I don't want to exchange taunts either my friend,
-It is puerile to believe that we are only to be allowed input into the political process every four years.
But what is stopping you, from volunteering, donating, running for office? It is the same in the greatest democracies in the world, dude. Voting happens at regular intervals.
-"without substantial differences in candidates"?
you are telling me that the Green party(for example) and its candidates look the same to you as the Democrats? From a thousand miles away, I can see glaring differences. So the playing field isn't level, that is the same everywhere, not to as great an extent, mind you as in America(your system does suck big time), but that is the hand you are dealt.
It all comes down to you convincing enough of your buds to vote for the candidates you think are best. You may lose(even in a perfect system you may lose) but democratic elections are the best game in town.
recent developments would indicate that votes are frequently not counted correctly, if at all...do none of you believe the transition to electronic machines gravely compromises the security of this process? A number of races have been shown to involve 'problematic' tallying...code has been written and executed to alter votes on these machines...I have no faith that any elections, at this point, are being decided accurately, which would equate to honestly...the various Secretaries of State, and their local equivalents, should be ashamed of their involvement...I acknowledge that vote-fraud is a long-standing practice, predating digitalia, but digitalization sure makes things easy, doesn't it? And fun!
then, of course, there is the whole issue of 'candidates offered', which is a whole 'nuther arena of control, filtered down through a fraudulent 'one party-two party' puppet show...
finally, once a 'candidate' is in, many methods of manipulation exist to 'help' them do as they are 'requested' by the powers that be...
-electronic machines gravely compromises the security
Very true. I can't believe you guys fell for that one. countries that use pencil and paper count their votes faster than you, and there is a paper trail(obviously) for auditing.
With paper, fraudsters would have to physically dispose of ballots or use other labour intensive methods to foil democracy. Electronic machines without a paper ballot kept at the voting station, make it possible for someone to change some computer memory and voila, you have "one stop shopping" for fixed elections, done wholesale.
-then, of course, there is the whole issue of 'candidates offered', which is a whole 'nuther arena of control, filtered down through a fraudulent 'one party-two party' puppet show...
OK this, I still don't "buy" this argument. So what if the Democrats stiff Kucinich or whoever. Even in your joke of a system, You can still vote for joe shmoe or whoever, right? Yes there are hoops to jump through, but...c'est la vie.
-finally, once a 'candidate' is in, many methods of manipulation exist to 'help' them do as they are 'requested' by the powers that be...
I don't think this is true either. Obama may be manipulated, but only because he is "going home with those that brung 'em" in other words, he and his party depend on money from lobbyists, because without it they would not be able to out campaign Nader and McKinney, both of whom articulate more popular opinions (on health care to name just one area).
...Or put simply, can you imagine the Green party bowing to "the powers that be". Like the Greens are in it for the money, HA!
one of my aquaintances was a beginning politician in Britain...he had enjoyed initial success, and had begun to propose humanitarian ideas in circles that mattered...
He was on a street corner one day, when he was approached by a woman he'd never seen before, who told him he had a lovely little boy, and that, if he didn't watch himself politically, his little boy could get hurt...that is how things work...he quit politics...
Nathan is right about one thing we should not vote for a party that is not working in our interests. But, as he says, we only have two choice---vote Dem or vote Repub. Unfortunatly these two parties stand for the same thing---profits for the already wealthy. Since both the dems and the repubs are funded by the same wealthy elite, they want to please their 'donors' and don't care one bit about their constituents. And if one party fails us, we go to the other---and we are shafted again. When will we see the facts of this situation? Don't vote for EITHER OF THE TWO EVILS!!.
wrd, nice post, having voted once, for BO, and being bummed, I'm sure open to a better way.
I observe a calcifying of what is wrong, what decency the system had ebbing, and that NO political process can change this. Including 3rd party politics.
Why? What ARE politics? They are the machinations the elites to keep what they have and steal more. At this point in US history the .01%/1% have stolen enough political power & wealth that no balancing forces exist anymore, and thus we will slide inexorably in a straight line to our Revolution.
NO political process can change what is wrong when politics is what protects the wrondoers. Or, o political process can change what is wrong when what is wrong IS politics.
"Resist Or Become Serfs." A CD columnist said this. I quite noticed he did not say do this, that, or the other thing politically to avoid enslavement, he was being quite candid and said Resist. His name is Chris Hedges.
I've been voting Dem for years and feel like a victim of domestic violence who finally understands the pattern and realizes nothing will change if I keep being attracted to the same type. I had a lengthy discussion last night with a fellow Dem (who calls himself liberal), expressing my disappointment especially over the health care issue. Still very defensive of Obama, this friend kept talking about what Obama is doing, the mess he inherited, how he's going to change the Supreme Court, how he's going to fix health care- anything that's not being done satisfactorily is the fault of the Senate, not Obama. I reminded him that the Dems have the majority and can accomplish so much for the people, not the corporations, for a change. I asked how he can justify the deaths of 20,000 Americans who don't have access to health care-- and he ignored that and said it would be improved, maybe we wouldn't get Single Payer but the system would be improved under the Dems. And they tried it under Clinton, but the Republicans got in the way. Blah blah blah.
Yep, change the health insurance companies, HMOs and pharmaceutical industry can believe it.
Excellent synopsis of what's happened so far.
Mr. Moyers, we cannot let this moment pass. Please use your voice and scream these truths.
Challenge other media sources to report the issues.
If the American people favor single payer by as much as two-to-one then American democracy, our freedoms, must be realized.
"If the American people favor single payer by as much as two-to-one then American democracy, our freedoms, must be realized."
Are we really sure that they favor it by that wide a margin? If so, then why did we choose practical over extremes when electing our senators and representatives? While I am in favor of single payer, we have to be practical and realistic and learn to compromise. Relax and be happy. Our freedoms won't go away tomorrow just because we don't get single payer today.
Dream on.
Dream on? Keep raising your expectations and you could end up like some of your favorite people on this site now in the hospital, getting banned from this site, or showing signs of mental instability. Compromise or keep your big mouth shut.
Nebraska [Light]
Obama just appointed Cheney's assassination General to head up Afghanistan. He sold us out on FISA and TARP. AIPAC owns the man. He is escalating the war in Afghanistan and conducting covert air strikes on non-combatants in Pakistan. He is engaged in another environmental fantasy called "clean coal" the most egregious source of energy on the planet, and the most abundant; in fact, its use as a primary source of energy is increasing, not diminishing. (I recommend you read, Big Coal: The Dirty Secret Behind America's Energy Future by Jeff Goodel as to why coal is NEVER GOING TO BE CLEAN AND WHY IT IS DESTROYING OUR PLANET.) Obama has also sold us out on Single Payer promising during the campaign that his health plan would not mandate coverage for Americans who cannot afford it; now it appears he will mandate it because the corporate insurance industry owns him too.
Now comes News that Obama might appoint a conservative judge; this was one of the main arguments prior to the election by the apologetic wing of the Democratic Party asserting why we ought to vote for Obama. We were told, Obama would reverse the rightward tilt by naming a liberal. Turns out, Obama is another con artist in the mold of Reagan.
More change we can believe in apparently. "Yes we can!" Get screwed again.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Brand Obama a product of the same company that manufactured a brew called Full Bodied Bush. Now we have Bush Light a full bodied lager with a Dark twist
Like I said, Dream On.
I'm not satisfied with Obama on what you said but there's nothing you can do about it. He's just being practical and you'll just have to learn to shut up and get used to it. You can vote Republican in 2010 and 2012 if you're not satisfied.
Nice obfuscation. Never voted for a Republican in my life. And I am sure Obama supports your notion of keeping people silent. That is certainly the norm for those with a mental disability when it comes to diversity and open debate. Anything else?
If you want to sound like those bedwetting purists such as Red Rick and JenniferBedingfield and crackpot astrological zombies such as Sioux Rose predicting doom and gloom, go for it. Look what happened to those three losers when they raised expectations too high. Don't worry. Be happy. It will take lots of compromises but single payer will come even if it takes another century.
No doubt you are making the best case against Obama I've heard on these pages. I can see you have a lot invested in the man and his talking points. But such is the case for all 'true believers.' Try thinking for yourself for a change. And please take the last word and make it memorable. I don't have any further time to waste on your infantile rants. My adivce is to find someone to change your diapers.
Nebraska Nathan1 May 22nd, 2009 11:22 am...To think that most citizens are willing and complacent enough to wait one hundred years for health care reform smacks of naivete or complete lack of awareness.
Sioux Rose
ELOHIM: Nathan has a tag team ready to attack any who SEE what is going on. I am one of them. I am not sure what kind of dance is going on here behind the scenes but he is a paid schill. His role is to divide the forum by turning one against another. Notice how he offers as choices only what's served on the menu by the elite insofar as the pre-selected candidates are concerned. No matter that they all dance to the same elite drummers and have lied their ways into office, seized the public's money, continue wars the vast majority are against, and now plan to use a mafia-style legalized form of extortion to force us to buy insurance, once again leaving the insurance middle man as the decider on our treatment programs. NO progress is being made at a time when not only America's future, but that of nations in general hang in a delicate balance.
Nathan has tried to assasinate my character in this forum in numerous attacks. His job is to try to ruin the credibility of those who see over the cuckoo's nest. I welcome any viable debates with intelligent persons, but this guy uses a lot of sneaky tactics that speak of persons (like myself) in the 3rd person, as if HIS opinion constitutes a consensus, and that his slurs represent actual facts. Argue with him as you will... any hot air balloon tends to dissipate on its own when no air (communication) is added.