Israel: Boycott, Divest, Sanction
It's time. Long past time. The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa.
In July 2005 a huge coalition of Palestinian groups laid out plans to do just that. They called on "people of conscience all over the world to impose broad boycotts and implement divestment initiatives against Israel similar to those applied to South Africa in the apartheid era." The campaign Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions--BDS for short--was born.Every day that Israel pounds Gaza brings more converts to the BDS cause, and talk of cease-fires is doing little to slow the momentum. Support is even emerging among Israeli Jews. In the midst of the assault roughly 500 Israelis, dozens of them well-known artists and scholars, sent a letter to foreign ambassadors stationed in Israel. It calls for "the adoption of immediate restrictive measures and sanctions" and draws a clear parallel with the antiapartheid struggle. "The boycott on South Africa was effective, but Israel is handled with kid gloves.... This international backing must stop."
Yet many still can't go there. The reasons are complex, emotional and understandable. And they simply aren't good enough. Economic sanctions are the most effective tools in the nonviolent arsenal. Surrendering them verges on active complicity. Here are the top four objections to the BDS strategy, followed by counterarguments.
1. Punitive measures will alienate rather than persuade Israelis. The world has tried what used to be called "constructive engagement." It has failed utterly. Since 2006 Israel has been steadily escalating its criminality: expanding settlements, launching an outrageous war against Lebanon and imposing collective punishment on Gaza through the brutal blockade. Despite this escalation, Israel has not faced punitive measures--quite the opposite. The weapons and $3 billion in annual aid that the US sends to Israel is only the beginning. Throughout this key period, Israel has enjoyed a dramatic improvement in its diplomatic, cultural and trade relations with a variety of other allies. For instance, in 2007 Israel became the first non-Latin American country to sign a free-trade deal with Mercosur. In the first nine months of 2008, Israeli exports to Canada went up 45 percent. A new trade deal with the European Union is set to double Israel's exports of processed food. And on December 8, European ministers "upgraded" the EU-Israel Association Agreement, a reward long sought by Jerusalem.
It is in this context that Israeli leaders started their latest war: confident they would face no meaningful costs. It is remarkable that over seven days of wartime trading, the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange's flagship index actually went up 10.7 percent. When carrots don't work, sticks are needed.
2. Israel is not South Africa. Of course it isn't. The relevance of the South African model is that it proves that BDS tactics can be effective when weaker measures (protests, petitions, back-room lobbying) have failed. And there are indeed deeply distressing echoes: the color-coded IDs and travel permits, the bulldozed homes and forced displacement, the settler-only roads. Ronnie Kasrils, a prominent South African politician, said that the architecture of segregation that he saw in the West Bank and Gaza in 2007 was "infinitely worse than apartheid."
3. Why single out Israel when the United States, Britain and other Western countries do the same things in Iraq and Afghanistan? Boycott is not a dogma; it is a tactic. The reason the BDS strategy should be tried against Israel is practical: in a country so small and trade-dependent, it could actually work.
4. Boycotts sever communication; we need more dialogue, not less. This one I'll answer with a personal story. For eight years, my books have been published in Israel by a commercial house called Babel. But when I published The Shock Doctrine, I wanted to respect the boycott. On the advice of BDS activists, I contacted a small publisher called Andalus. Andalus is an activist press, deeply involved in the anti-occupation movement and the only Israeli publisher devoted exclusively to translating Arabic writing into Hebrew. We drafted a contract that guarantees that all proceeds go to Andalus's work, and none to me. In other words, I am boycotting the Israeli economy but not Israelis.
Coming up with this plan required dozens of phone calls, e-mails and instant messages, stretching from Tel Aviv to Ramallah to Paris to Toronto to Gaza City. My point is this: as soon as you start implementing a boycott strategy, dialogue increases dramatically. And why wouldn't it? Building a movement requires endless communicating, as many in the antiapartheid struggle well recall. The argument that supporting boycotts will cut us off from one another is particularly specious given the array of cheap information technologies at our fingertips. We are drowning in ways to rant at one another across national boundaries. No boycott can stop us.
Just about now, many a proud Zionist is gearing up for major point-scoring: don't I know that many of those very high-tech toys come from Israeli research parks, world leaders in infotech? True enough, but not all of them. Several days into Israel's Gaza assault, Richard Ramsey, the managing director of a British telecom company, sent an e-mail to the Israeli tech firm MobileMax. "As a result of the Israeli government action in the last few days we will no longer be in a position to consider doing business with yourself or any other Israeli company."
When contacted by The Nation, Ramsey said his decision wasn't political. "We can't afford to lose any of our clients, so it was purely commercially defensive."
It was this kind of cold business calculation that led many companies to pull out of South Africa two decades ago. And it's precisely the kind of calculation that is our most realistic hope of bringing justice, so long denied, to Palestine.
Further Reading: Disengagement and the Frontiers of Zionism
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194 Comments so far
Show AllIt's pretty rare I disagree with Naomi Klein. However, there are two sides to this story. Israel is slow to negotiate, but Hamas utterly refuses. It seems Hamas hoped Israel would react the way they did. By now they know how Israel is going to respond to rockets, and people act less rational when spending time in bomb shelters. Above all, Israel is very different from South Africa. The blacks didn't do anything to bring on apartheid. However, one Palestinian group or another has broken truces as often as Israel has. Non-combatant Israelis have been targets of attacks. South African whites stood to lose power, but South Africa wouldn't cease to exist. Israel fears it will cease to exist, so it will hold out longer than boycott advocates expect. I don't suggest boycotting Palestinians either because life already sucks for them. Now that we have a change in our own government, and Israel won't be getting terrible advice and approval of stupid moves from the next president, it's time to try to be a friend to both sides, and tell them the truth, that the other side is as tough as you are. They can keep making your life miserable. The other one is never going away, and will never listen to your case while they feel you might bomb them at any time. Negotiation is inevitable since inevitably you must face reality, so might as well start now. No preconditions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/09/AR2008050902296.html
This article is a very-well articulated piece of Zionist spin, and immediately goes in the trash can with other Wash-Post garbage. Lets look at it detail:
First the subterfuge:
...Israeli forces were unilaterally withdrawn from the area in August 2005.
Note the word unilaterally. This word was carefully chosen to indicate that Israel made a major sacrifice. Truth is, Gazans did not occupy Israel, and could not withdraw. The use of the word unilaterally here blindsides the reader, forcing a view of a reality that does not exist (i.e., spin).
...Israel's nonmilitary responses to Hamas-led terrorist activities -- severely limiting the flow of food, fuel and other commodities into Gaza...
Note the words nonmilitary response. Seems pretty peaceful, huh? Alas, the blockade is maintained militarily, and in every book on military history that I have read, siege is a military weapon, and has been for millennia.
Dozens more examples exist throughout the article.
Now a look at some serious sins:
The key tenet of the article is that Gaza is not occupied, and that Israel governs the legal rights of Israel and Gaza's population. If this is the case, then all occupants of Gaza have access to Israeli courts, but no warrants have been issued to those living in Gaza. Israel has its own constitution that protects its citizens, and it is clear that Israel does not accord the occupants of Gaza with these rights. Israel's constitution also prohibits the use of military force against it's own citizens. So who are the people of Gaza if not citizens, then they must be squatters. Alas, the squatters are unable to leave if they wnted to, and are being forced to live in what amounts to a concentration camp, or konzentrationslager. So if these are foreign nationals being held against their will, without charge, then Israel is guilty of many heinous international crimes.
Although intelligently written to fool the weak-minded, I was surprised that lawyers should be so blind to international law. But then, the article was written for Joe and Sheila American who are not the brightest bulb on the tree.
I give the article a D-
First, obviously the meaning of 'unilaterally' mystifies you because of your lack of knowledge. Israel handed land to the PLA which it gained in the war against Egypt. But the Palestinians failed the test.
Therefore Israel excluded the inhabitants of Gaza from moving around Israel due to the fact that they did nothing to stop the rockets and mortars which were fired at Israel. It closed the borders.
'The key tenet' - this indicates your intelligence problems, because you cannot even read and quote correctly, and due to this want, you draw false conclusions:
While Hamas is clearly trying to bolster its legitimacy, the conflict along Israel's southern border has a broader legal dimension -- the question of whether, as a matter of international law, Israel "occupies" Gaza. The answer is pivotal: It governs the legal rights of Israel and Gaza's population and may well set a legal precedent for wars between sovereign states and non-state entities, including terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda
Always personal attacks, yet you provide no substance. Your fervor blinds you to the truth.
The fact is, as I logically demonstrated, is that Israel is breaking either its own constitution, or international law, or both. What is it?
Nevertheless, Israel's crimes of immorality are without precedence this century, even making the massacres in Somalia look small.
Goodbye.
Somalia, well, that is really a point for you, this islamistic-arabic slaughterhouse. Please, don`t leave, come up with more examples of the cilized behaviour we want to learn from islamistic movements.
ericf:wonderful interview on DemocracyNow this morning with Avi Shlaim, in England. I think you'll like it. www.democracynow.org for transcript or you can see/hear the show online,free.
Hamas have several times sued for peace, their only requirement that Israel return to its 1967 borders:
Nov 2006: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1104-26.htm
Dec 2007: http://www.imemc.org/article/52046
Apr 2008: http://www.greenleft.org.au/2008/748/38684
Apr 2008: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24235665/
How can you say Hamas refuses to negotiate?
Israel have yet to propose any cease-fire on their own accord without a third-party proxy.
As always, the ball is in YOUR court--and I don't see you doing squat.
Um, Serena, as a US citizen, are you doing anything? Even in Mexico, there is much for you to do.
Well, this denunciation of Israel is already disproved, but a limited mind like yours does not even understand numbers. So walk to Washington, in your wishful thinking, for the annihilation of Israel, it won`t be your last walk.
comment Islamistic martyr
One thing to do is for the big banks and hedge fund firms to short the Israeli Shekel value into oblivion thus destroying the Israeli economy. But no, these gangsters (like Goldman Sachs) are too busy beating up on Iceland, Hungary and Mexico's currencies (and sending the $$$ to Israel). Another is for the US to cut off Israel's welfare check (that'll be the freakin' day).
I wonder what will happen to all these oil states and the states they finance after the oil is gone. Well, I guess, better keep out of reach, 50% of the population is under 25, there will be a lot of failed states.
Naomi Klein is great on everything but this topic, in which she's dead wrong. As long as Hamas exists, there will be no peace. Israelis would make peace with Palestininas tomorrow if there were no Hamas. Neither party wants war, both want to co-exist and respect / recognize each other's right to exist. That's why Hamas and Hezbollah must be exterminated in their entire.
If I said the same thing about "exterminating" Israel, I would be labeled an anti-Semite.
Your mindset is deranged, comparing the goal to exterminate a murderous organisation with the annihilation of a state, especially of Israel. Your wishful thinking will never turn into reality.
illumineer, surely you jest...Even the world "exterminated" sounds a bit bizarre to me.
You are the one being blindsided by an irrational "right or worng" love of Israel "illumineer" an alas all too tragic flaw amongst ostensibly "liberal" diaspora Jewish people who have been exposed to a certain kind of brainwashing and fortunately one that can be overcome as Klein, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky and Amy Goodman show.
"That's why Hamas and Hezbollah must be exterminated in their entire." That is what Hitler said of the Jews are you really sure you want to go the way of hatred? Not only is it extremely unethical it would also be suicidal for Jewish people considering there are 1.2 billion Muslims and roughly 13 million Jewish people. You are outnumbered quite literally 100 to 1, not only is making peace by giving Palestinian their rightful land as guaranteed by the U.N the ethical thing to do it might be the ONLY thing Israel can do to assure its survival.
hootowl, i also admire those of my fellow jewish folks that you mentioned here.
Brainwashing? Well, i never was good at being brainwashed so i never bought into the whole israel thing or organized religion for that matter, however, i am no atheist. It is an ethnic thing, being jewish. And a long history of being the 'other' in a christian world. And persecuted.
'Karmically', the jewish people didn't do badly over the past 2,000 years. No crusades or inquisitions or colonization or forced conversions or pedophile clergy (that i know about anyway) or genocides or the ravishing of entire continents as per Africa and South American, etc ...you name it...Until, yes, the state of israel. Now they have been making up for lost time.
Too bad patriarchal religions have been the informing paradigm of all our so-called civilizations for so long.
But as far as brainwashing is concerned, after WWII it was not brainwashing, it was PTSD in spades.
Israel depends on this 'otherness' for its rationale for existence. As we can see, it is imploding upon them, and i fear, on all jews. Unless the enlightened progressives of the world will remain vigilant and vocal and active. Time will tell.
Peace.
Hamas have several times sued for peace, their only requirement that Israel return to its 1967 borders.
Nov 2006: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1104-26.htm
Dec 2007: http://www.imemc.org/article/52046
Apr 2008: http://www.greenleft.org.au/2008/748/38684
Apr 2008: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24235665/
What neo-con kool-aid flavor are you drinking this time? I hope it tastes shi**y.
My little Hamas boy, once it is an offer of hudna, not peace, then a truce with conditions, you cannot make up the differences.
My my, it can read...barely.
So any proposition with terms is not peace? Which petri dish did you fall from?
This means that the US is still at war with Germany and Japan? Something I guess you would approve.
Your functional illiteracy alone is not interesting enough for me to continue the discussion. Do you have other disabilities, too?
If the discussion fails to interest you, why do you ask a question? The only disability I (and the world) have is you and your Zionist friends.
What excuse do you have to offer today to justify the slaughter and genocide of Gazans?
Peace is about compromise (if you have a family, you will know that), and it is clear that you and your Zionist kind are willing to accept only unconditional peace. The Zionist spin-machine is running at full-speed, but all your talking points justifying the asymmetric slaughter have all been shredded on both moral and legal grounds. There is NEVER any justification for planned mass-murder.
World opinion is against you and your kind. GOD is against you and your kind.
You have become what you hate. And hatred is strong in you.
Oh, you are a believer, that is disability enough.
In an asymmetric war which the Hamas thought it will win and provoked Israel proves to be stronger, and that is why you are starting to complain and, by this, relativise the Holocaust and confuse the term genocide. This is petty-minded.
Under normal circumstances one declares defeat and negotiations are starting for peace settlement, but since sixty years you find no one on the other site who is courageous enough to do this, with exception of Sadat who consequently was murdered.
So there we are, but the Islamistic movements will destroy themselves even when they have got some strongholds inside the western left.
It's not like Israel has never conducted genocide before. The UN in 1982 declared the Sabra and Shatila massacres acts of genocide.
Israel is thus predisposed to invoking the Holocaust on it's enemies. And these attacks are becoming more regular, ferocious and cowardly.
Thanks for the proofs of your shortcomings. Who exactly committed the crimes at Sabra and Shatila?
And as the populations increased, in Libanon, in Gaza strip, in Jordania and so on, your lies are obvious.
Check your facts, poor boy.
The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) allowed 150 Lebanese Christian Phalangist militiamen to enter the two Palestinian refugee camps, and the militia massacred civilians inside while the IDF prevented the escape of terrified Palestinians through the IDF-controlled checkpoints. The IDF shot illuminating flares over the encircled camps to make the job easier for the Phalangists.
The subsequently established Kahan Commission recorded that Israeli military personnel were aware that a massacre was in progress without taking serious steps to stop it, and that reports of a massacre in progress were made to senior Israeli officers and even to an Israeli cabinet minister; the Commission therefore regarded Israel as bearing part of the "indirect responsibility", that Ariel Sharon bore "personal responsibility" and recommended his dismissal from the post of Defense Minister.
The reason this is considered a genocidal attack is that the attacks were premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatants. From wikipedia:
"Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan met Sep 16 with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps to clean out terrorist nests. Under the Israeli plan, Israeli soldiers would control the perimeters of the refugee camps and provide logistical support while the Phalangists would enter the camps, find the PLO fighters and hand them over to Israeli forces".
As history now knows, the Phalangists handed over nothing but corpses, mostly women and children.
The Phalangists were mercenaries, a proxy for the IDF. Israel was responsible for this atrocity. QED.
Well, the point is the phalangists were seeking revenge for an earlier massacre of their people by PLO-fighters.
Wikipedia correctly described the deal with the IDF, no one was aware that the Phalangists will betray the deal and just seek revenge.
So if you want to have the responsibles sue the Phalange but for such a simple-minded it is easier to continue his hate way against Israel..
Genocide: The organized attempt to deliberately and systematically destroy, in whole or in part, an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. - Wikipedia
What part of this does not apply to Israel's systematic attacks with overwhelming force on the Gazans? The Israeli attacks on the Gazans is genocide, and calling speaking the truth petty-minded is feeble at best.
I offer the links again: Hamas have several times called for peace; the Israelis have not once offered peace, and refuse to negotiate. Read the truth and weep.
Nov 2006: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1104-26.htm
Dec 2007: http://www.imemc.org/article/52046
Apr 2008: http://www.greenleft.org.au/2008/748/38684
Apr 2008: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24235665/
Your Hamas truth? That is really a reason to weep, because it indicates the extension of ideological-religious thinking in a confused world which needs neither empiric facts nor logic, similar to the wishful thinking of political neocons and the religious rights that it is enough to change the image, the view by spin, to alter the facts, the reality.
The USA and Israel offered negotiations based on the recognition of Israel and of the achievements of the Oslo process. The Hamas said never. So sometimes when the Hamas feels weak, they offer hudna or a truce, but never a peace settlement.
As lying, massmurder, genocide etc., is typical for you, in order to fulfill your duty of islamistic propaganda and I already disproved the false claims of a Hamas which offers peace there is no need to answer.
So, dude, tell us why the IDF is systematically fire-bombing hospitals, UN schools, and UN warehouses that store food and medical supplies destined for civilian Gazans?
Maybe you think this is the lies of Hamas?
The only liars, mass-murderers are the state of Israel and it's Zionist supporters. You will find yourself increasingly alone as world opinion grows against you.
That the IDF have adopted the tactics of the Nazis is now widely known:
- Blockade
- Blitzkrieg
- Invasion
But you don't care. Your hatred blinds you to truth. You become what you hate.
As we know enough of the ties between the Nazis, the al Husainis, the Iran, Egypt and Syria, we don`t care about your world opinion which does not exist. Maybe you look too much Al Jazeera, and all that islamistic stuff which likes to compare Israel with Nazi. So the Palestinians are Jews, according to your simple mind?
Seriously spoken, now it is clear that you are a religious fanatic who supports barbarians, those who disguise their mass slaughter as martyrdom.
FACT: Just looking at the time when Hamas was elected to power in Gaza, Abbas stated 28 Jun 2006 that Hamas agreed to work with Fatah "in the pursuit of a negotiated permanent peace with Israel" (Abbas' words, not mine). No hudna there, eh?
But then the late-2006 US/Israeli coup against Hamas threw that effort out the window. You reap what you sow.
Looking forward to seeing how you spin your way out of this well-documented piece of non-revisionist history. Why do you keep distorting reality and spread lies?
To continue your education, the Arabic word "hudna," means truce, and is more concrete than "tahdiya" (a period of calm) which Hamas often uses to describe a simple cease-fire. "Hudna" implies a recognition of the other party's existence. But we will never hear that on FoxNews.
Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people in January 2006, but the Israeli government has refused to recognize the Hamas government, choosing instead to recognize the un-elected appointees of Abbas. This is the real reason why there have been no peace negotiations. Israel does not want peace; it wants to ethnically cleanse the region that it defines as its own (in defiance of the UN).
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population". - David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat". - Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)
Well, as you come up with the same old lies again, and some new ones, I will answer only the new ones, first that of Ben-Zohar, because the indicated time of May 1948 was the time when the Israelis were bombed by the Egyptian airforce, with heavy casualities under the civilian population.
There is no such quotation in his books so you use a fabricated one. I recommend that you should read first and quote later.
The second quotation is just copy out of the internet of a quotation of a quotation which lacks the source.
So you are obviously not only an islamistic believer, but also an incorrigible liar.
You have no answer on Abbas' call for a permanent peace in June 2006. So you change the subject. But maybe you will claim that Abbas' statement was a fabrication too, as you have attempted to do with every quote and reference that I have given.
Maybe you will tell us that the Israeli hate-speech given at:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.html?q=palestinians.html
are fabricated as well?
I suggest that you seek help for your paranoia, as you seem to believe that there is a global PR conspiracy against Israel.
Your uninformed ad hominen attacks fall flat as well. I am not an islamist believer, actually an atheist and don't care much for weak-minded people who are unable to face reality without a baby bottle. I object to my taxes being used to kill innocent lives, and the influence of the pro-Israeli lobbies on our Government. What's clear and final is that according to the Anti-Genocide Convention of 1948, a civilian population can never be punished collectively, as Israel is now punishing the Gazans, for the actions of militants in their midst. Gettit?
Your meme is to attack people, not data. You disguise your screams of "anti-semite" behind name-calling. A typical pro-Zionist ploy.
I'll leave you one more quote that your paranoia is surely to attempt to discredit:
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial." - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online
As I already proved that you are a liar, the rest of your hate postings against Jews is irrelevant.
You have neither logic nor facts, only fabrications of simple minds, just like the neocons.
Inschallah.
Hootowl I take your point. In addition to "The Diary of Anne Frank" I will request the Rachel Corrie and "The USS Liberty" be offered also to our students. It is most difficult to not be hateful when one sees the slaughter in Gaza and then be insulted and cowed by our own representatives!!
Very hard indeed. My hatred is hard to contain. TY anyway.
Much better, more information is always better than less IMO.
I dont know what the fight is all about. Read below and lets all bow down to the almighty Israel:
According to the Torah, Israel's character as the chosen people is unconditional as it says in Deuteronomy 14:2, "For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people
sunshinebiz,
Hi, Now I hope I'm not cynical here but allegedly some long hair named Moses wrote Deuteronomy, for all I know he was Catholic, BUT, IF, he was Jewish, well, then, I hate to say this but he may not have been IMPARTIAL in his analysis. I hate to ask this, but could he have pre-judged this affair? Rashly? Before stuff like Equal Rights got popular? Everyone makes mistakes. Let's cut this dude some slack.
?????
www.jamescarroll.net/Constantine.html
There is no hope for the USA government to act in a moral capacity; witness the recent unanimous vote in support of the Paletinian Holocaust. The USA is still in denial in regards to the Native American genocide.Couple this with a general lack of remorse for the millions killed by the USA in Phillipines, Southeast Asia, Latin America, Africa,Iraqi and Afghanistan and you have a truely cruel, greedy , heartless nation. The USA politicians ignore all the Palestinian/zionist history and just endlessly repeat "Rockets" "Rockets" "Rockets". Yes those rockets that killed exactly one israeli between the time israel violated the latest ceasefire by murdering six Palestinians and this massive bombardment.Hamas is the duely elected government of Palestine and has made hurclean efforts at peace( not retaliating for one year to a couple dozen assassinations and kidnappings of Hamas's elected ministers) The USA is in a state of well deserved collapse. And israel is the USA's Frankenstein; it would neither exist as state or be as powerful except for USA aid and influence. Hopefully it will collapse with it's sponsor. All empires collapse and considering the Senate vote the USA is way past due.
glenn ford:is it you? The Glenn Ford who was on Hugh Hamilton's show on WBAI not too long ago? (I don't remember the date.) or someone using the name as a screen name? (clue:typos?)
Sorry to confuse you. It is the dead movie actor Glenn Ford.-----------------Thanks -------------------- Peace ----------------------
glenn ford:thanks. I'm old enough to remember him, and until I heard the journalist Glenn Ford, who has an online site....Is why I asked. www.blackagendareport.com is Glenn Ford's good site.
If a non-Jew had written this article CD wouldn't have published it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/09/AR2008050902296.html
No myths, some facts
Who finances, educates, takes care, feeds and arms the people of Gaza since sixty years?
UNO, UNRWA, FAO, UNICEF, OPEC, EU, USA, Red Cross, former Soviet bloc, Islamic Conference, Arab League, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Lybia, Kuwait, ... and hundreds of NGOs.
Inhabitants of Gaza
1946: 100.000
1948: 250.000
2008: 1,5 million (due to Israeli suppression and starvation, or because it is a Ghetto or why?)
Fertility rate: 7.5
Women rights: Hamas
UNRWA: 28.000 employees, more than 20.000 of them Palestinians, more than 50% of these are members of Hamas
If someone "transfered" you (see genocide) to a small area of land and denied you basic human rights you'd look for weapons wherever you could find them too. When you leave people hopelessly in despair they tend to have kids, perhaps unconsciously hoping to win the demographic war. if Israel keeps behaving in an overtly genocidal way I hope that IS what happens and Israelis Jews have some damn lifejackets and know how to swim well. Fuck Israels manipulation of their captive populations for the purpose stealing land completely.
You Hasbara canned talking points are wearing awfully thin fitzwunderlich, there is only so long you can lie on behalf of genocide for so long before people rise up against you, count on it.
As you are not fit to argue rationally, but prefer to come up with war, when I offered the truth - your lie of genocide when there is an increase of population - it makes no sense to discuss. You proved the point for Israel.
Well, "quite simple" - that is true, at least for you. And I hope you mean the responsibility is not direct, particularly, as Gaza was not occupied.
Anyway, as long as Palestinians prefer killing Jews to the love of their children, there will be no peace.
The production of children for the only goal to become martyrs is despicable:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/3267
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M5D5_m93A0
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2009/hamas-tv-gifted-child-jihad-warriors-p1.php
This is war, no occupation, you have troubles with clear thinking, and the question remains will Hamas sacrifice the population or declare its defeat. As Hamas propagates martyrdom, the answer is clear.
It is occupation, blockade, war, a massacre, collective punishment and a Holocaust( sorry Holocaust is not intrinsic to only Jews, ask a Native American, or Palestinian)
Please proof the Holocaust of Palestinians, or shut up, brain dead.
Greetings to you mom, I`m sure she does a good job, maybe spoils you a bit too much, so be nice to her, because nobody else will be nice to you in your future, spoilt brat.
64, and still childish?
I like to comment islamistic massmurderers.
No it's not a war when one side has tanks, jets, an Army, a Navy, white phosphorus, cluster bombs and DIME and the other side has not only none of these but no bomb shelters and no where to run to, the correct words is not "war," but "massacre". You can talk your Hasbara points until you are blue in the face but the truth is self evident in this case. And no that doesn't make Hamas rockets "good," but the response to light causality pin prick attacks after imposing a blockade and breaking a ceasefire on Israel's side is NOT a massacre, the whole world is watching and outside the U.S./Israel* media bubble condemns Israel's actions strongly. That is why both the U.N. and Red Cross have spoken of "crimes against humanity."
* And kudos to Israelis press like Haaretz for actually being less biased than U.S MSM.
Folks like you cry foul when they begin something like firing rockets and mortars out of civilian sourroundings, which is a warcrime, at civilians, which is a warcrime, for eight years and then get a response they did not expect.
This is war - the Hamas wanted it, they got it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?_r=3&hp
UNRWA and Hamas
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FShowFull
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=11...1231063776
http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/07/gaza-hamas-unrwa-oped-cx_cr_0108rosett_print.html
History
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/981931.html
And in ten years, precisely 24 Israeli citizens have been killed by Qassams.
http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/gaza--bomb-them-back-to-the-stone-age.aspx
How cowardly was Winston Churchill and his government to hide amongst Londoners during the Blitz whilst planning the fire-bombing of Dresden and Hamburg? How terrible it was for the Soviet Army to hide amongst the citizens of Stalingrad while Hitler was protecting his army at the gates? SHOCK, HORROR, the Russians had the nerve to shoot at the Nazis! Cry warcrime, warcrime!
As you don`t understand history and context, it is obvious that you had to post your nonsense.
If I don't understand, why don't you enlighten us all and explain why Gazans, under siege and being starved, should not defend themselves against an overwhelmingly superior invading army? Since you know so much about history, perhaps you can remind us when genocide was legally and morally justified?
I'll say it again. In 10 years, 24 Israeli citizens have been killed by Qassams. More Israelis die from infection induced by ingrown toe-nails, but I don't see Zionists demanding that all toes be amputated.
Repeating lies, like you do, won`t help in this situation, but if you cannot stand up to truth and reality it is, maybe, a good solution for you.
What lies? I am sure that the Israelis are counting bodies. Why don't you show us your data and attempt to refute the data that I posted a link to?
The truth and reality is genocide in Gaza. Prove me wrong!
Hasta la vista, baby!
I find Canadians are nicer people than Americans.
I thought that until I saw the Indian reservations.
Joe
Canucks? I distrust anyone wearing plaid shirts, wielding axes and who worship mythical figures called Dudley Do-Right.
(Just kiddin', cuz).
Hi. Where? What's the total population? I once had relatives on one coast, now different relatives on the other coast. That reminds me:in the 1990s, I heard an indigenous person from Canada, during a visit to NYC, say on the radio, that he thought it was impossible for people to live so crowded in cities and remain calm and friendly. (I'm a city person, love city living, but he's got a point.)
No shit, any bunk room up there?
NYCartist, to answer your question, if you're still reading this thread: No, I'm not Jewish, but since I frequent what one might call an intellectual/artistic milieu (when I can get out of the house, that is), many of my friends and colleagues are Jewish, as has been the case since University, and thus such questions as I address here have long been a subject of conversation among us. How many times we've wondered how different things could be if "the right Jews," who seem to be so many (i.e., Jews like them but with more power and influence), truly, profoundly represented that community, or at least had equal input into matters of politics and policy regarding Jews, and played an equal part in defining the Jewish identity today, to that of the warmongering Zionists and pro-Zionists. In no way did I mean to imply that Jews were somehow different from others and therefore had more of a responsibility to "lead" (and this is why I said "leaders or participants in human advancement"); I merely meant to say, as others have said before me, how unfortunate it is that the Jewish identity (especially in the public eye, as simplistically represented in the MSM), has been usurped, so to speak, by Zionist Israel, to which Jews are expected to pay homage as if to some false god. How different the Israeli ethos, with its militarism and lack of compassion for the other, is from the culture that produced, say, Einstein, Arendt, Kafka, Chagall, Jonas Salk, Hermann Broch, Leon Blum, Bruno Schulz, Osip Mandelstam, et al. And, say what one will about Israeli achievements, even today nearly all of the great Jewish cultural figures of world stature (regardless of their stance towards Israel) are not Israeli: Chomsky, Primo Levi, Yehudi Menuhin, Harold Pinter, Philip Roth, Wallerstein, our dear Naomi Klein, Tony Judt; and those Israelis who do rise to this level--witness Barenboim--are almost always severely critical of what has become of the Zionist project.
But, to put a further nuance of my point, and to illustrate that the onus lies on us all as Americans, and not just on Jews, I said the other day, in a post commenting on the US Congress's recent resolution overwhelming in support of Israel in their current buthery in Gaza, that the US itself is the problem, in a very real sense, with Israel being an extension of that problem, and nothing short of a complete overhaul of the predominant mindset of Americans--in re Israel but also in re their power relationships with the rest of the world--is going to change things much. I'm thinking in particular of what Chomsky, referring to the post-Vietnam era, called the need for something similar to the "de-Nazification" of the ruling elites of Germany, but in America, and I think the same is needed now, even more, in the wake of Bush gang's depredations. But given the current makeup of the Obama administration, this doesn't seem around the corner. Nothing short of a 'soft revolution', a non-violent but nonetheless profound upheaval in the very manner in which we perceive our roles in the world as individuals and co-nationals will ever bring us even close to realizing something of this nature. It may not even happen in our lifetimes. But it needs to happen, or we're all doomed.
clovis:Hello.
Edit insert: By literally distancing yourself from where I asked my question and your comment on Jan.9, the whole meaning of our exchange changes. I just found your Jan.9 comment suggesting Jews "need to distance themselves...from" Israel... Why did you not comment at the place where I replied to your comment?
I just found your comment. Hard to stay away, as I'm rather upset at the actions of the Israeli government and the nonactions of my, the US government. Explain the line, "when I can get out". We may have something in common. Your comment is long and I have to reread it.. (I may not add to this.) First, I am uncomfortable about a statement like "the right Jews". People are people and Jews are people. Do folks say "the right WASPS"? Do you ever list "the right Christians"? I think Jews are perceived differently. I now have a link to the book I have been referring to often, "Constantine's Sword". http://jamescarroll.net/Constantine.html Please look at James Carroll's book link.
The U.S.could stop Israel's government's behavior, I think. I want to point out Howard Zinn's Nov. 8,2008 speech, played on DemocracyNow on Jan.2,2009 www.democracynow.org transcript online,free. He makes a good point, in addition to knowing history is important or its like you were born yesterday and the government can tell you anything. His point I wish to make here, is that government interests and people's interests are not the same. So when people use "we" with US policy and "people", it's important to differentiate between people in a country and the government. I shall look for your answer and reply, if possible. Thanks for replying. Where (roughly, geography)did you go to University? I went to a NYS college long long ago on the GI Bill (a gov't benefit after dad's disabled/deceased death after WWII;he'd enlisted. He was related to one famous Jew you mention and one historically famous WASP family. When his grandpa married a Jew, he was thrown out of the WASP family.)
Hi, NYCartist. Sorry about the confusion in not posting my reply right next to yours. I've been very busy lately and I wrote that reply in a single breath without any thought to its placement (or its style, either). In any case, I agree with everything you say and didn't mean anything sinister by the phrase "the right Jews." I was simply referring to the fact that I have repeatedly heard it said in conversation, usually by Jews (clearly of a secular-leftist persuasion), that those who most visibily--and, let's say, institutionally--represent "the Jewish community" are increasingly some of the most reactionary, intransigeantly Zionist members of that community, and that it's a shame that we see in such positions of power so few of those prominent Jews who have more in keeping with the great humanistic tradition of modern secular Jewry. The paradigm is perhaps artificial, in that one could likewise say, as you imply, that the WASPS in the government also tend to be reactionary etc. The only difference I would say is that, to the great credit of modern Jewish culture, it is easier to say that modern Jewry indeed has a tradition of thought striving for human emancipation, whereas it is harder to say this generally for WASPdom (I have never particularly subscribed to the various myths of the "Founding Fathers" of the USA; though they did write some progressive documents for their time, I tend to see US history in more jaundiced terms as one of genocide and imperialism where the social advances made--often with Jews playing a big part--have always gone against the institutional grain). But, in any case, to conclude the point, one should not in general be too surprised that those with institutional power are some of the most brutal representatives of their respective communities, since such is the nature of power itself as presently conceived in our culture. And this is why I say that some sort of spiritual revolution (in the broadest sense)--a fundamental change in our way of thinking and conceiving society and power--is necessary before we see any significant results in the manner in which power is wielded. The International World Court seemed a step in this direction, especially when that Spanish judge Garzon went after Pinochet, but the US, Great Britain, Israel and others have done all they can since then to undermine what had seemed like a watershed moment in terms of making leaders responsible for their crimes. It's going to be a very long road, in any case...
clovis:aha. I think I disagree with your core point (if I have understood it). I don't see people in power in the US government as representative of the ethnic, religious or racial group they come from (although for diversity, I do keep count. That's a different topic.). I have never heard a Jew in over 6 decades, talk about "the right Jews" in any position of power. I have heard said that Jewish mainstream organizations do not represent the majority of Jews opinions. (Jews are well known, as in the old Jewish joke:put 3 Jews in a room and you'll get 5 positions on any topic.)
Jews are looked at differently from other groups. Jews are in very many countries, citizens of the countries. www.jamescarroll.net/Constantine.html I really like this book. It's the James Carroll who has articles on CD from the Boston Globe. He also wrote a history of the Pentagon;his dad was a general. James Carroll left the priesthood. He wrote a wonderful obit on Roslyn Zinn, who besides being an artist, was known to him and she had a spiritual, peace side.
To switch gears for a moment. Howard Zinn points out in his speech, played on DemocracyNow, on Jan 2,2009 that governments and people (of a country) do not have the same interests. When someone speaks of the US government doing something in "our"interest, you can be sure it's not in your and my interest, but in the interest of the government and power of the government. www.democracynow.org A great speech.
I shall "pass" on the spiritual stuff. I am not spiritual. I am a Jew and an atheist. I grew up Orthodox Jew and my Orthodox Jewish grandmother, Bubbie, was strongly socialist in her leaning. I have made many comments about her all over the place.
Finally, what country are you in?
Hi, NYCartist. At last we meet. My pleasure. Now, where and when did I say that the "people in power in the US government [are] representative of the ethnic, religious or racial group they come from"? I think you have misunderstood me. I mean quite the opposite. It is the institutions themselves, and the people within them, that CLAIM to represent their respective constituents, but this does not mean that they do in fact represent them. On the contrary. This was the meaning of the whole 'Not in My Name' movement, no? My only point was that, as far as major Jewish institutions--say, Israel, B'nai B'rith, AIPAC, JINSA, etc.--are concerned, the progressive intellectual traditions of modern Jewry (which it sounds like your grandmother was part of) are not exactly well represented. Perhaps part of the problem is that there is NO real progressive political movement of any kind afoot these days (as there was, say, in the Sixties), and perhaps if there was, this would allow progressive Jews (who remain nevertheless quite numerous, aside from the prominent intellectuals who, however brilliant, remain mostly confined to the academic milieu), along with everyone else, to manifest themselves politically. Another interesting, similar example in US history, though certainly not parallel by any means, is that of the Italian Americans. Once a solid cornerstone of progressive and even far left thought and action, the Italian Americans have for the most part degenerated, with their entry into the middle classes, into a reactionary petit-bourgeois self-satisfaction worthy of the boring suburbs they now inhabit.
Anyway, as for the rest, I'm a big fan of both James Carroll and Howard Zinn, though I have to say that I found Zinn's People's History of the United States so heart-wrenching, so mind-numbing in its unflinching enumeration of atrocity after atrocity, betrayal after betrayal, that I could only read it little bits at a time. And I certainly agree completely with your point that governments and people of a country normally do not indeed have the same interests. That said, in nominal democracies like the U.S. and Israel (a democracy at least for the Jews), the people do bear some responsibility form the actions their government takes, even if its not in their interest. With one caveat, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned: Bush did not legitimately win in either 2000 or 2004, so the 'American people'--amorphous, elusive, sprawling, undefinable mass that they are--can perhaps be (partially) exonerated.
And how did you figure out I no longer live in the US? I'm now in France, six years running.
clovis:I have good intuition, when I asked what country you are in. I don't always understand what you are saying. I didn't say you said, what you put in quotes.
Zinn "People's History..." certain parts were too painful for me. My favorite book is "You Can't Be Neutral in a Moving Train", Boston:Beacon Press,2003 edition has a great introduction. It's Zinn's autobio. You'll love it, if you haven't yet read it.
Oddly:you touch on some odd coincidence: one of my grandfathers (who I never knew) was French. Jew. My half-WASP grandmother married him. I grew up among Italian Catholics and East European Jews. My Bubbie, the Orthodox Jew who had socialist leanings, was pre-1960s and always a Democrat since she got her citizenship. Her only education was her learned father (a salesman in Poland at turn of,into 20th century, taught her to read and write Yiddish. She learned from "The Forward" newspaper up into the 1950s or later and life. She had incredible smarts and social skills. From pushcart, to small grocery store, widowed twice, first time with 5 babies under age 5 pre WWI in NYC;died penniless, I am proud to say.)
I am old enough to have participated in the 1960s, as a young adult. Some small activism:beginnings of teachers union (first contract),delegate to union; left teaching for art, small wheel in civil rights movement in the South, women's art movement, disability rights movement and here I am.
I haven't been to Paris since 1964 and I'd love to visit. Too ill.
Read Howard Zinn's speech online at DemocracyNow www.democracynow.org on Jan.2,2009, transcript is online, free. I think we can say people in a country are responsible for things they do:such as: folks who work in munitions, military machine, for rotten politicians....Do you know the work of Frances Fox Piven? She has said that people should put sand in the machinery of the war machine (not literally), to stop war in Iraq. So did Arundhati Roy in one of her speeches. She has her own website.
More on responsibility: People who remain silent during attacks on Muslims and South Asians in their communities, are responsible passively. People who ignore police brutality in NYC by the NYPD and pretend the Mayor Bloomberg is great, because he's rich, are responsible in part. So are the politicians. I do not feel responsible for the war on Iraq. What I feel as an American, is great pain and that I couldn't (along with many) stop it. I remember that we were successful in stopping the Vietnam War, but it took a long time to get many people involved, and it might have been the soldiers' resistance, as Chomsky said, that did it even more than the protests. But, as he's said, in another context, every bit helps.
I have a gut feeling that you think of Jews differently than Americans as a whole. Do you want to continue about that? It's about Jews in organizations that are Jewish organizations. No doubt, the majority of Jews are not affiliated with groups that are "Jewish groups", with exceptions of progressives who organize around Jewish, such as JFREJ:Jews for Racial and Economic Justice in NYC (and have a radio show;google). There's Jews Against the Occupation of Palestine www.jatonyc.org But Jews are in all progressive organizations. Some of us are not much in groups at all.
I don't know your frame of reference. Where did you grow up and go to university? (Sorry for my cognitive glitches, are due to CFS/ME and "overtired", but the basic brain still seems to be here, for now.) I enjoy our comments back and forth. Thanks.
"I merely meant to say, as others have said before me, how unfortunate it is that the Jewish identity (especially in the public eye, as simplistically represented in the MSM), has been usurped, so to speak, by Zionist Israel, to which Jews are expected to pay homage as if to some false god."
Excellent point you'd probably be interested in this article by ex-Jew GILAD ATZMON who now self identifies as a "Hebrew speaking Palestinian:
http://www.counterpunch.org/atzmon01202007.html
From the responses of the international community this past week, and the entire immediate ineffectiveness of protests and boycotts, its seems to me the horror will draw out, perhaps for a month, until future generations will read about this moment in history as Holocaust II. It was a problem technology exacerbated, not solved.
Jewish Lobbies are a decisive factor in Washington's support for Israel and wield immense power and influence in the United States
In a November interview with the German daily Junge Welt, former state department official William R. Polk said Jewish lobbies have long had an 'active and determined' say in US politics
"That is a characteristic of American politics. It is unfortunate and disturbing, but it's just like that," Polk said.
It seems to me that the only way to bring Israel to it's senses is to bring America to it's knees.
By de-powering the US we will de-fund the IDF. Boycott and divest in the United States (of Israel) and sanction all of our Israeli controlled politicians (at the ballot box).
Humbaba's opinion
Occupied America
i have know some jews -- Israelis -- who said that there israeli jews of conscience who , refusing to serve in their army against the arabs and palestinians - would try to be "ineligible" by pretending to be "crazy"...they would have to undergo medical exams to find out of they are lying. the punishment for refusing is JAIL. some say it is one reason many Israelis have left israel as they couldn't bear doing what their conscience opposed: "to kill".
There is no need to go to crazy extremes to avoid conscripted military service in Israel...
If you are Hasidic, then you are exempt... If you are a conscientious objector, you can join their version of the peace corps...
Other than that, it is a matter of pride and patriotism and duty to serve in the Israeli military...
After these kids serve their time, many are traumatized by what they have had to do in the name of Israel...
I met an ex-special forces sniper who was drinking himself into oblivion in Colombia after serving in the military...
He would brag to me about shooting Palestinian children, because they were sub-human, worth less than dogs...
I pitied him for allowing his government to brainwash away his humanity...
One hopes that the movement to divest ourselves of those entities which support the genocide by Zionist Jews of the mostly helpless Palestinians will grow into a chorus that will be continuous and effective. The Jew State has so far been able to, through a concerted effort by their helpers (sayanim) here in America, bribe or smear it's detractors into America. Our feeling, here at The American Peasant is that these ongoing efforts by foreign-controlled Jweish organizations are criminal...and, as I said "ongoing" Some might find language in the RICO Act applicable. Should thus be the case that an ongoing criminal conspiracy exists to thwart American election law, why then those entities might be fined right out of existence....think about it.
I believe a major campaign using all media - showing palestanian children praying to GOD asking God to send another Moses to Deliver them from the Jewish Pharohs.. would really convey the message.
Maybe Millions of Good and Decent Jewish People would understand the parity between their history and todays situation.
kr8ion: http://jamescarroll.net/Constantine.html
No screw all religion, Muslims suicide bombers are atrocious in a pretty similar way to the Jewish supremacist land grabs of "God's chosen people."
Show them holding copies of international law books calling for the occupation of Israel and deposement of it's government by the U.N. to enforce U.N. resolution 242 and you might have something.
whoa that sounds pretty jarring. someone should make a movie!
salam, shalom
Saudis reject oil embargo on Israel
What American stations sell gas made from Saudi oil?
Join the buycott of Citgo as that is oil from Venezuela, viva Chavez!
Serena--
Your answer above reminds me of an interesting distinction between the Kennedys and most other wealthy American political dynasties. The Kennedys had plenty of dough (virtually all the children were millionaires before they left adolescence--it was just in trust funds to guard against them squandering it in too prodigal a way)but money for its own sake was never their goal--they consistently saw money as the means of acquiring power for the purpose of public service.
Yes they were arrogant and acted many times like rules applied only to others and not to Kennedys and yes their manner was offensive to many, but they fought the power and changed the dialog in America for a brief period anyway.
Hugo Chavez Frias at his best has done and is doing the same thing with the oil wealth entrusted to his care and I really believe (just like JFK and RFK) that his legacy of doing good will far and away outshine any annoying aspects of his personal manner.
Now fulminate over that.
Poet
Americans are still starstruck over the Kennedy brothers after wandering in the political desert for 40 years...
They were no saints... JFK created death squads to kill union organizers and leftists in Colombia and Guatemala...
I saw a statue of JFK in Costa Rica with a swastika spray painted over his face...
That is pretty much the sentiment in Latin America when it comes to the Kennedy's...
I would be honored to meet a wonderful human being like President Chavez.
CD posters spread the word on this video around the world. I will be
renting a hall and publisizing in the local paper that this film, plus the story of Rachel Corrie and a tape I procurred on the USS Liberty will be shown free of cost twice daily on Successive Saturdays and Sundays after the super bowl. I will also take it to our local school boards (accompanied by about 20 people, plus a petition signed by 215 people) and ask them to allow students to voluntarily view it. We will ask that from now on "the Diary of Anne Frank" not be mandatory but only read as an elective.
Rachel Corrie and Anne Frank both tell important stories - why choose between them! In fact, they would be more powerful if read/viewed together.
Crimes Against Humanity belong to no one country or race.
If this was a story about the slaughter of Jews, I know a few Canadian Muslim organizations which would be condemning the slaughter - don't worry!
That is just stupid Jonah all genocides and brutality are wrong BOTH what is happening now and the Holocaust against the Jews. Yes to more information about Rachel Corrie and the Liberty, no to a campaign to make Anne Faank's diary less read.
THINK man!
Naomi Klein I love you! All poster must go to the following site: http:portail.islamboutique.fr/gaza2008/
Naomi klein is a voice of a person that speaks to JUSTICE and what is right over and above that all to common voice of the nationalist and tribalist that considers justice and what is right as a thing tied to ones skin color, religion or ethnicity.
seems that she speaks more as an economist... pros and cons for effective justice
Boycott Israeli products: http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/modules11748.php
That's quite a list. I would suggest boycotting their number one export, Abrahamic religions.
Good point!
Two things:
One:
We need to make clear to the Israelis that we think the land of Israel is a wonderful dream made manifest. The Jewish homeland was re-created after World War 2 by a world both shocked and, for once, realistically guilty for millennia of horror visited on the Jews. This didn’t start with the Holocaust; the Holocaust was merely the logical extension of what had been going on for more than 2000 years. But the equally horrible mistake made then of ignoring the area's other inhabitants has been compounded by the Israelis' transgenerational PTSD. We need to make clear that we understand that, we forgive it, and we will stand by Israel and the Jewish people and not let that or anything like it happen to them, ever again. The only way to do that convincingly is by not letting it happen to anyone else, either--including First Americans, Islamic and Arab people, gay and lesbian people and other minorities everywhere. Ironically, it is largely by peacefully and non-punitively preventing Israel from further abusing the Palestinians that we will finally convince Israelis that Israelis are safe.
We need to draw up a resolution stating our love for Israel, Israelis, and Jews everywhere, and let them know that although we will no longer trade with Israel as long as they abuse Palestinians, we will offer them any forum for discussion that they want, and any assistance we can agree on to make the transition, especially to poor people hurt by the boycott (although a socialist state like Israel probably won’t need that). We must also offer gratis any personal or systemic therapy they need to recover from their affliction and be able to feel safe without violence, without projecting onto and projectively identifying the Palestinians and other Arabs into violence against Israel.
We must get individuals, governments, business, religious and other institutions participating in the boycott to sign this resolution, which will further say that as soon as the Palestinians are treated well and fairly we will welcome Israel back into the fold, as we did South Africa.
Two:
We need a website, an organization, a clearinghouse for information on brands, products, actions, and ideas. We need to communicate with each other in some forum designed just for that.
While I appreciate you idealism and agree in principle about you ideas on self determination, your history is a little hazy. The origins of Israel are in terrorism (the Stern gang INVENTED the car bomb), bank robberies, and attempted collaboration with the Nazis. The behavior of the pioneers of the state of Israel was so atrocious that Albert Einstein felt compelled to write a letter to the NY Times describing their behavior as overtly fascist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Dissent/Einstein_NYTimes_Israel.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs03242007.html
While we should respect the human rights of all people we also ought not be naive to the fact that some social groups have an ideology that is NOT humanistic like ours and thus saying "we think the land of Israel is a wonderful dream made manifest" is way beyond naive regarding Israel's origins, it's continuous abuse of Palestinians, and its current behavior in Gaza.
The fact that the working out of a dream in the physical world is less than perfect is amply demonstrated in the US; you don’t have to go to Israel to see it. Yes, many latched onto the idea of Israel as a global ghetto. Yes, behavior right from the start was abominable—on all sides. The Jews could have been less militant; the US and British could have planned and negotiated better and with better intentions; Arabs and other groups could have reacted less violently and entered into negotiations; etc. etc. Yes, Israel’s behavior now continues to be oppressive and murderous. So does ours. So does that of many countries and groups, even those who stand by and do nothing or profit from strife. That humans suffer a nearly species-wide emotional illness does not negate the good that has been or remains to be done, thought and felt.
There is no way to change the past; we all have a choice between continuing to personalize the transgressions of the past, or to express in more appropriate fora our grief, fears, rages, sorrows and hopes to each other and move past those so we can begin to work together. If it sounds like a pipe dream, think of Ireland, Czechoslovakia and the major current of democratic socialism in Germany for the last 60 years—not even close to perfect, but a dramatic turnaround from the previous decades. Forgiveness, assistance, assurance of safety and abundance, education, and many other factors are part of this but to think we can make progress by condemning one side and/or talking endlessly about endless violence is the naïve view.
I never said I hold Israel blameless. The innocent don’t need forgiveness; only the guilty do. And yes, we cannot undo what’s done; we have to stop despairing and move forward from where we are, not where we’d like to be. Explicitly accepting that fact and then ignoring it and its implications is a contradiction. Why not kick the Europeans out of the Americas? Why not give Britain back to the Picts and kick the descendants of the Visigoths out of France and Italy and undo, step by step by step, the Mfecane?
To say “some social groups have an ideology that is not humanistic like ours” is not only to demonize them but to ignore our history of genocide and slavery. Those are just 2 parts of the same enshadowment and projection process: we demonize them BECAUSE we ignore our own faults. Our origins are in terrorism, too. All origins contain terrorism—unless you belong to one of the small matriarchal bands of indigenous people, formerly worldwide, who are nearly extinct—not because of their peacefulness but because of our warfulness.
They are peaceful because they do not physically and psychologically hold onto emotions. They let go; they forgive. Although it will take time in cases like this that is the only way to move forward—to begin that long process while suspending violence despite each side’s certainty it is the righteous and injured party. Neither side will do that without being assured that we are with them no matter how long or difficult the process. No excuses, no enabling, no relenting. But forgiveness just the same. It’s time both the Israelis and the Palestinians were able to acknowledge each others’ wonderful dreams of home and peace and get on with creating them together.
Excuse me, but "a wonderful dream made manifest?" WTF, are you HIGH?!
The Allied nations post-WWII shuddered at the thought of hordes of penniless, homeless Jewish DPs (displaced persons) arriving on their shores. Since Britain occupied the Palestine Mandate they thought it was the ideal dumping ground for the refugees. So began the Palestinian nightmare.
Allowing Israel to continue to exist as a Jewish state is equivalent to approving of the European occupation of North America IN 1680 (!) (60 years after the landing in Plymouth) and shrugging one's shoulders, saying "they're already here; it's too late to do anything about it now."
I agree, J4zonian, that much cannot be undone; a just solution would be a single NON-JEWISH state in which Palestinians are given the right to return to their homes and villages (those that remain standing) as well as reparations and compensation. Then, together, they can go about the business of putting the past behind them and building a future based on justice and equality.
Unfortunately, the U.S. and Israel will NEVER let this happen. And so the killing continues.
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
kgarry,
The Israeli government and people are--well, call it strong, call it intransigent--it has the same result. Can you imagine them ever accepting the terms demanded by boycotters with the sentiments you express? They would huddle starving in hovels first.
Yes, there were crimes and mistakes committed on all sides. Yes it is an unfair and unjust situation, the worst possible situation in 1947--except for all the rest. (Or at least almost all the rest. all the possible ones, anyway.) Yes, some people wanted Israel so they wouldn't end up with Jews on their block; I think a lot of people have come a long way since then. People always go along with events and ideas for a whole range of reasons. It's possible that moral persuasion does nothing except give people an idealistic excuse to do what they're doing for other (economic, military, emotional, whatever) reasons. That's OK with me. You?
I'm not saying it will happen this week. Slavery and the Irish troubles both took several generations. So might this. Why not try? I.F. Stone said if you expect to achieve your goals in your lifetime your goals aren't big enough. So why not try?
Naomi Klein, Ralph Schoenman and Mya Shone, Noam Chomsky, Glen Greewald, Norman G. Finkelstein, and Gilad Atzmon, are but a few of many Jews who show determined courage in the face of a very real political atmosphere in which the slightest criticism of egregious Israeli policy is swiftly followed by fallacious and highly intimidating charges of anti-Semitism.
The systematically cruel and devastating occupation of the Palestinian people has served only to galvanize support by the average peace-yearning Palestinians for more desperate means of surviving this genocide by installment...which in turn serves to compromise (to whatever degree that it might) the security of Israel.
I am joining the rest of the courageous and conscious world in speaking out and taking action against the horrific injustices committed by Israel, not the least of which is the continuing brutal occupation of the Palestinian and Lebanese people.
No justice, no peace. The future is in the Israeli's hands as the Palestinians are in truth, powerless against the Israeli military juggernaut. Israel's citizens must choose to finally make a stance against the devastating occupation and attrocities carried out by their leadership in their name.
Naomi Klein is just amazing !
Naomi Klein for Secretary of State! President next time around!
She's Canadian.
Doesn't she have US citizenship as well?
Naomi Klein was born in Montreal to a draft dodger who did not believe in the Vietnam war. Naomi Klein would be eligible to play for Team USA for Hockey, if she was good enough, but not to be President.
ouch
Great article, she's just such an inspiration.
But Jews who disagree with Israel have to lead the way. It is up to them to start it. Israel has been benefiting from less condemnation and consequences by the world community for aggressions only and exclusively BECAUSE they are Jews, so it is up to the Jews to distance themselves from this cynical abuse of Jewish history for military and aggressive purposes.
If such a movement weren't spearheaded by Jews, I can see the danger that a "Boycott Israel" movement could easily turn into a "Boycott Jews" movement, and we've been there in Europe, thank you very much, so we gentiles have to avoid anything that resembles Nazi tactics and slogans.
Not because the right wing in Israel would immediately publicly draw the parallel, they'd do that anyway every time you criticize them, but because it is a matter of simple ethics.
In Europe, already the extreme right everywhere is happily chiming in when progressives are criticising Israel, so we have to be careful about eerie bedfellows who have a completely different agenda and who actually often are antisemites.
If America had a more diverse political landscape with more parties in Congress which would represent the entire political spectre in the US, the same would be the case, BTW. I am sure that the KKK is also highly critical right now...
So I am hoping for the combined efforts of Jews around the world to lead the way.
"But Jews who disagree with Israel have to lead the way. It is up to them to start it. "
Where have you been? There is already a storm against Israel and it is NOT lead by anyone.
There is already a rampant anti Jewish movement around the world and it is caused by Israeli and American Zionists because of their proven hatred for HAMAS, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, Arabs, Muslims and anyone else who looks sideways at Israel.
Didn't you know if we dare to criticise Israel, we are considered "supporters of terrorists" according to one poster here.
Don't forget to boycott Starbucks in this case. Their founder donates millions to Israel, as I understand.
But I could be wrong !
Don't forget to boycott out Senate in this case. That group donates millions of our tax dollars to Israel and, as I understand, our Full Faith and Credit.
Saint Thomas Aquinas once charactorized the Jews with the words "cruelty and avarice."
Now the Israelis want the entire world to sanctify their diabolical slaughter of the Palestinean first born and to demonize all who object to their war crimes. Our Senators support this insult.
Times change but it seems that the attitudes of Ego-terrorists never do.
http://jamescarroll.net/Constantine.html
Well said and to the point. Thems are the marching orders folks, let's get to it.
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Ms Klein has shown the way. Let progressives everywhere join together in solidarity with the oppressed Palestinian people by contacting the president of European Commission letting him know we favor the commission, which has authority to do it, to approve action to provide for European Union sanctions against Israel, and call for the Council of Europe, which must be in on the process to back same referring over to the European Parliament to be passed as legislation.
The contact information is listed below for the president of the European Commission:
Jose Manuel Barroso
President of European Commission
phone number-- 322/2991111
fax number-- 322/2991111
Act locally, contact globally for a better world globally. As Martin Luther King Jr once said we must "internationalize the struggle." Dr King was so right! "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
AD
"It's time. Long past time. The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa."
Waiting for business to orchestrate a boycott against Israel is like waiting for Godot.
I feel as if I could stand on top of the tallest mountain with the largest megaphone and scream in my loudest voice that the true power of the people now is economic, but I know I wouldn't be heard.
Screw it. OUR TRUE POWER IS ECONOMIC! STOP BUYING ISRAELI PRODUCTS AND THEY WILL GRIND TO A HALT! SAME IS TRUE FOR ANY CORPORATE ENTITY! STOP B-U-Y-I-N-G AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AND LIFE WILL CHANGE!
Carry on...
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Ted Markow:yes. At the same time, there's lots of blood,ruin now. We need a way to get the US government to tell Israel "NO! Stop!" immediately. A threat of no more weapons, money would do it very quickly. I doubt we can count on Congress to halt military weapons quickly (remembering how long it took to stop getting military aid to Indonesia to force that military out of E. Timor. Allan Nairn refers to E.Timor and our newly announced NSA chief, Adm.Blair on DemocracyNow today. www.democracynow.org Blair will be boss of the new CIA chief,Leon Panetta ) Blair's record is not pretty. Any ideas?
"Any ideas?"
I have ideas, but they are not legal.
Sadly, I'm coming to the conclusion that things will get so bad, so desperate, so impossibly painful to watch, that we will resort to the brutality of desperate measures.
And on it goes...
"It is not true that life is one damn thing after another - it's one damn thing over and over." Edna St. Vincent Millay
It is illegal for businesses in the "Land of Liberty" to organize boycotts against Israel.
PK
I applaud this article. The only problem with it, as I can see, is that it will only be effective if the Jewish community in the United States, Canada and elsewhere take the lead. I don't think that's likely to happen.
Far too many diaspora Jews are complicit in this crime, and acquiescent in what is patently a pattern of gross violation of human rights.
The other thing that has to happen, and this will follow from above, is that the US government has to stop its unequivocal support for Israel. Either that, or the United States sinks further into decline, taking Israel with it, and they can both go down together.
You know, I have admonished others for blaming the Jews for Israel's actions, but you present this in a very cogent manner.
There is a deep-rooted denial that is happening, born of a fear of ever suffering the kind of pain and diaspora that has happened before. Jews around the world have a choice of seeing things as they really are, or turning away and giving tacit approval to genocide. Ironic that Jews would choose to ignore the truth, and history (I am a Jew).
I agree, also, that the US must stop its unequivocal support of Israel. As bleak as it may sound, I think the real solution for the US is to stop ALL support of Israel, force Americans with dual citizenships to commit to one country or the other (and live in their homeland), and let things happen. Agreed, also, that barring that, this very likely will eventually drag us and Israel down, with many others to boot.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
I applaud this article. The only problem with it, as I can see, is that it will only be effective if the Jewish community in the United States, Canada and elsewhere take the lead. I don't think that's likely to happen.
Far too many diaspora Jews are complicit in this crime, and acquiescent in what is patently a pattern of gross violation of human rights.
The other thing that has to happen, and this will follow from above, is that the US government has to stop its unequivocal support for Israel. Either that, or the United States sinks further into decline, taking Israel with it, and they can both go down together.
The boycott is an excellent idea and I for one as an American Jew fully support this action and will work on implementing this in my own life and suggesting it to other (especially Jewish) friends.
There are quite a few Jewish peace organizations that might take this on.
Israel is committing war crimes -- all under the aegis of its twisted (and incorrect) narrative of simply defending Israelis.
S. Cohen
Long overdue. And a good start. Thanks
Great article. It's time for the whole world to unite against Israel and its partner in war crimes, America.
These two greedy, elitist, imperialist, warmongering countries do not deserve a place in this world. They are a scourge!
www.dangerouscreation.com
I think that the world must unite in protest not against Israel and the United States as countries per se, but against Israel's policies, and against the United States' policies of complicity. That being said,
this:
"These two greedy, elitist, imperialist, warmongering countries do not deserve a place in this world. They are a scourge!"
doesn't help, imho.
I know, I love Naomi.
She's a goddess.
Right on, Naomi! And a very fine nuancing of her argument by Hoodeet. It is hard, sometimes, to remind Jews of their own need to distance themselves from the dysfunctional, hypermilitarized state that has long been trying to usurp their identity, and I think Hoodeet has laid out some very useful guidelines to attaining that end. It's in everyone's interest, especially Jews, to reassert the great humanistic traditions of modern Jewry, without which many of the major advances in science, thought, and human emancipation would never have occurred. Such should be the identity to which Jews all over the world aspire, that of leaders or participants in human advancement in all fields, not that of ruthless ethnic soldiers fighting weaker cousins for a mythical homeland based on the violent assertion of a dubious birthright.
clovis:Are you a Jew? I am. So, also, I think, is Naomi Klein. I know Amy Goodman, Phyllis Bennis, Marjorie Cohn are progressives, activists and Jews who are fighting for justice and an end to the policies of the Israeli government towards Palestinians. I note that N. Klein is Canadian, but the others I list, and I are Americans. ( My list is just a quick, incomplete list because I am typed-out on replying to people who think Jews are different, in some ways, than, for example, other Americans. I do not know if you think that.) The women, and myself, are and have been critical of our own government's policies in the middle east.
(I am not a famous name. I am one of many Jews who you don't know about.) I have been a progressive for about 50plus years. I am comfortable with having been born a Jew, into a family of mainly E. European Jews who were Orthodox, and I became an atheist at 15. I have always stated my being a Jew, publicly, when I was a small wheel in the civil rights movement, and antiwar movements, in the disability rights movement since middle age, the women's art movement. Because Jews are such a small minority and the stereotypes hang around....)_
I was a small child during WWII, my father enlisted, became disabled immediately in WWII and was dead when I was 10. It took me awhile to realize that war is bad, all war. I like Howard Zinn's writings. Zinn's speech, played on Jan.2,2009 about history and government and that government and people do not have the same interests, is a "must read". Transcript online: www.democracynow.org I have no connection to Israel, although my Bubbie, grandmother, collected clothing and my job was to sell raffle tickets and collect coins from our working class neighbors in the 1940s. Who could refuse a little girl? Poor people are the most generous people, in my experience.
Poor people, of all kinds:you go into someone's home and they want to feed you. All my life I have been interested in people. That is the gift of being a Jew, for me. My grandmother would be broken hearted at Israeli government policies. She was a tough woman:widowed with 5 kids under age 5, she survived. She believed no one could get very rich honestly and died penniless, having given away all her money as she lived. She was religious but made friends with all kinds of people in Brooklyn. She taught me justice.
"Poor people, of all kinds:you go into someone's home and they want to feed you."
That sure strikes a note with me, no, wait, a full chord. We were dirt poor when I was a kid in the 50's. Many of our friends were also. The first words you always heard when visiting friends were, "Have you eaten?" And they were sincere, they wanted to feed you. And then, later, I recall in grade school one day, our teacher telling us about some foreign cultures where this was a common occurrence. She related to us how just so unimaginable that must be for all of us, because we in America were all so well off that this would just be such a social faux pas. That happened in the early grades -- third, fourth, I don't recall, but, what arrogance, what ignorance. I knew lots of "well off" kids and they never let you forget, in their opinion, your position in the social order.
-- ekaton aka d.k.shaw
Laughing. I had the same experience. Poverty was officially non-existant in the 50's.
Joe
Well put, clap, clap, clap.
naomi klein and her husband BOTH come from families of leftist activism. her own mother was VERY activist - and Klein herself says she actually resisted her mother's activism - and wanted to be the "conservative, normal, that dressed chic" girl...i saw this in an interview she gave from her home in toronto..which is very simply upholstered.
she's not only a genius, she has the heart of a human being.
"Yet many still can't go there. The reasons are complex, emotional and understandable. And they simply aren't good enough"
Ethical behavior is an outcome of ethical values and the ethical deficit exists generally in the USA, not specifically to the issue of Israel. The reasons many still cannot go to democratic socialist nirvana are NOT understandable, and can no longer be ignored. They have to be acknowledged and then properly disposed in the compost heap instead of put back in the cupboard. People can't face their own personal ethical deficits due to their embrace of the "success formula" of capitalism which requires people not to think to achieve an independent satisfaction, but to want, so that capitalism may create a mass DEPENDENCY that keeps the capitalist (class war) machine running. People who don't think but only consume cannot take civic responsibility such as demanding their government take a stand against apartheid. This is NOT understandable. This is EVIL on the part of the elites. Everyone has to shift all of their exchange/association away from all the elites, all the power centers, and toward their local communities, toward people they know and trust. This builds mass independence, self-determination, responsibility, worldwide peace and prosperity.
"It was this kind of cold business calculation that led many companies to pull out of South Africa two decades ago. And it's precisely the kind of calculation that is our most realistic hope of bringing justice, so long denied, to Palestine."
Here, Ms. Klein implies that "cold business calculations" should be more convincing than ethical concerns for people to choose the apartheid bandwagon. But this only illustrates the contradiction that deflates her argument. Why should a cold hearted capitalist be concerned with the plight of his fellow man? and so the only effective approach is a general approach - to raise the society's ethics in a general sense, to dump oligarchic capitalism and embrace democratic socialism, to dump the elites and join the people in defense against the elites' class war aggression.
It seems a small thing to boycott Israel as one lone consumer. But if you personally feel antipathy towards the policies of this murderous national entity, then do you own personal boycott. The "invisible hand" will take care of the rest of it. Actually, this is what Adam Smith was getting at with his notion of self-interest. Free individuals making personal choices spontaneously create a market, or anti-market, in this case.
How does one identify Israeli products? Check attached labels. If not labeled, check the numbers associated with the bar code. If the prefix is 729, it's Israel.
back in the 1970s, the left called for a boycott of Suoth Africa, but not Cuba. In the case of Cuba, they said that Boycotts don't work. The right called for a boycott of Cuba, but not South Africa. In the case of South Africa, they said that Boycotts don't work.
Boycotts don't work. Besides, Israel is not alone. Hamas can share the blame. Also, why single out Israel. Other countries have their skeletons in closets. Hypocracy.
Boycotts don't work, eh? Tell that to a free democratic South Africa, oops. And the reason many on the let dont want to boycott Cuba is we share Cuba's over all goals while feeling free to criticize where Cuba has fallen down on the free speech and democracy fronts.
In short your disingenuous post is just that disingenuous.
"Personally, I boycott US products" (Serena)
We already assumed that Serena!!!! You buy nothing from the gringos!!!!)))))) (Exactly what products are still made in the United States?) lol (Just kidding)
Are there even any left to boycott?
A boycott cannot be truly effective, as a friend astutely reminded me, unless all arms dealers, gangsters and small states AND the US (a prime market for Israeli military technology) are on board. True, massive commercial losses from such items as fruit, flowers, make-up, candy, chocolate bars, clothing, and especially tourism will make a dent. (As someone here pointed out, many commercial brands are disguised.)
But the real meat of Israel's economy is in the weapons and military technology industry and in the hiring out of military and security "consultants" and "advisors" (mercenaries and paramilitary trainers), as well as in tourism (mainly by Jews, who are for the most part knee-jerk supporters of "Eretz Israel right or wrong", and Christians, predominantly the masses of evangelical types). Both line items are big fat cash cows and it will be very hard, probably impossible, to wean much of the world from them.
Moreover, Israel has well-placed advocates in foreign governments, media and financial sectors around the world, who do not allow dissent and who play influential roles.
To head off my critics: I'm not blithely repeating the shibboleth about "Jewish-owned media", although the Aspers in Canada do a good job with their near-monopoly and many high-profile media personalities in the U.S. certainly keep a tight rein on criticism of Israel; nor am I echoing the Nazi paranoia about the "conspiracy of international Jewish bankers", although the likes of Mr. Madoff and Mr. Greenspan are pretty hefty pillars of the financial community and coincidentally do not appear to line up with progressive Jews against the excesses of the Jewish State.
I only wish to invite people to be realistic and practical.
Divestment, yes. And progressive Jews of the Diaspora need to move the debate into the synagogues and the Jewish charity organizations, front and centre, so these institutions are no longer automatically the channels they've been for pro-Israel propaganda and indoctrination. Progressive Jews now have to find the courage to challenge and confront their peers within congregations and associations, and not limit themselves to the safety of like-minded groups at demonstrations or on line. This is, I think, where the tough work needs to be done, because the politicians and the military establishment in Israel (one and the same, really) have always taken the Diaspora communities for granted, to keep on sending money (Israel bonds, etc.) and to keep on parroting the official line.
The Jewish nation has become a dysfunctional family, no different from the imperialist U.S. or the Catholic Church. We must confront the source of the dysfunctionality, which is the militarized state and the hubris and hypocrisy of its rulers and their enablers. At the same time we need to counter the shameless Holocaust industry and the exploitation of a very real anti-semitism, which is going to come back to bite all Jews in a big way as Israel's despicable actions continue to be identified with Jews worldwide. None of us want community centres, places of worship, or non-combatants (religious children in the streets of France or Argentina or India, Israel or Iran) to become targets of extremists, yet Israeli policies are increasing the vulnerability of those civilian sectors.
So it's up to us Jews to "clean house" and be leaders in setting Israel on a more righteous path.
Well articulated Hoodeet !
Can you explain what the "Holocaust Industry" is for me?
Google Norman Finklestein himself BTW from a Holocaust survivor familiy BTW. The idea in a nutshell is the state of Israel exploits and ruthlessly promotes it's tragic legacy of the Holocaust to justify it's own unethical actions like the current massacre in Gaza. Finklestein can explain it far better than me. :)
To boycott Israeli products one has to know what they are. In a supermarket there may be one soup packet labeled BING and another labeled BONG; BING might be Israeli (or even a settler colony) but the packet only names the local distributor, or it might be BONG. There needs to be a web page where one can ask if a product is from Israel or not. This would do much to increase the communication that Klein describes.
A boycott of Kosher products would go a lot further than boycotting Israeil products. Look for the symbol. There are several, this among the more prominent:
http://www.okkosher.com
JohnE; Primarily Israeli exports are 1. Cut Diamonds 2. Hi-Tech Equipment. 3. Chemicals and 4. Plastics. Evidently we could bring Israel to it's knees if we quit buying diamonds-Google Israel Exports....A 40% drop in diamond prices largely helped drop Israel's 4th quarter GDP 20%.
I did not know they had so many Diamond Mines in Israel.
.In fact they do not have diamond mines. The art of diamond cutting is a traditional orthodox Jewish skill set, passed from father to son even today. If you were to go to the NYC diamond center you would see many Hassidic Jews working there in this endeavor.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Adapted from JFK's address to the nation on civil rights, June 11, 1963:
"We are confronted primarily with a moral issue. It is as old as the scriptures and is as clear as the UN Deeclaration of Human Rights.
The heart of the question is whether all dwellers in Israel and Palestine are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities, whether Israel is going to treat all the citizens and those who live in territories under its control as they would want to be treated.
If a Palestinian, because his faith language, or customs, are different, cannot come and go as they please, or use any facilities or institutionhs intended for the public, if his children cannot be properly fed or educated, if he cannot vote for the public officials who represent him, if, in short, he cannot enjoy the full and free life which all of us want, then who among us would be content to stand in his place? Who among us would then be content with the counsels of patience and delay?
Sixty years of delay have passed since the establishmednt of the State of Isreal, Forty-one since they siezed territories that are not a part of their country, The UN did not create the nation of Israel in order to allow them to persecute the original dwellers in that land which they now occupy. Yet the Palestinian people not fully free. They are not yet freed from the bonds of injustice. They are not yet freed from social and economic oppression. And the nation of Israel, for all its hopes and all its boasts, will not be fully free until all its citizens as well as those who live in territories under its control are free."
***************
We have faced these issues before--the question before us is whether we will have the courage to face them again.
Poet
Poet:Are you saying Israel's government killed JFK?
I had never heard of this speech before. Thank you for posting. Lends credence to the conspiracy theory of Mossad/Jewish mafia involvement in JFK assassination.
Not so fast! This was AN ADAPTATION of JFK's famous address on civil rights given 06-11-63. To read (or watch a video of) the original on which this adaptation was based go to:
http://millercenter.org/scripps/archive/speeches/detail/3375
The purpose of the adaptation (besides showing the similarity of current US foreign policy to its racial politics 45 years ago, was to show that as we have been able to rise above small minded bigotry in the past, we should be able to do so yet again.
By the way, it wasn't Mossad that killed JFK. It was the national security state establishment (the alphabet soup of Intel and military organizations) and LBJ, J Edgar Hoover, (they were neighbors in DC), and the secret service who have covered and are still covering up the bare naked truth about the assassination lo these many years later.
Poet
Poet:it's poetic and very far out. I was in NOLA when Jim Garrison was doing his investigative work. I read the newspapers.
As demonstrated elsewhere on this site, the UN did NOT "create the nation of Israel." What exists in Palestine is a terrorist enclave named Israel, whose existence is assured by more powerful states for reasons related to their own Imperialistic policies.
Its the right action but Jewish groups are probably going to have to lead the way.
I really dont expect many celebrities to come forward to endorse it however. Too many high level zionist supporters in Entertainment business.
Its a difficult hill to climb due to the money and power involved, and the Holocaust Industry.
I think Israelis like comfort and leisure, and being invited to foreign universities,
and divestment would make them very uncomfortable.
But they could be stubborn for a long time before seeing the light.
Buying land in an arab country makes no sense.
If French were driven out by French canadian migrants, would it make sense to have them relocate to Spain or Belgium and make a country there?
make the European Jewish settlers in palestine give up the dream of an an artificially jewish majority and things will be better--but having a UN police to protect the palestinian arabs from Israel is a good idea. Palestinians have been in favor of it for a long time-but not Israel obviously.
What do you mean by "Holocaust Industry"?
The only way Israel and Palestine will stop fighting is if they are seperated by a policeable, defendable, no-person-land (PC?).
It is necessary for the UN, Israel & the US, Japan, etc. to purchase a tract of sand/land in one of the surrounding countries and turn it a state-of-the-art country with water desalination, solar power and light rail system to a number of the Arab countries and Jerusalem.
The "host" country that sells Palestine it's land would instantly become a major player in world politics.
All Palestinians would be resettled there, with homes, apartments, everything they need to survive in peace and moderate well-being. It would cost a fraction of what is being spent on terrorism and the military and cut off direct access to Israel by any die-hards. It would not have to be that large - perhaps the size of London or LA - a small country.
It is the only way, short of world war 3 that the situation will ever be solved.
Traveler
traveler said:
"The only way Israel and Palestine will stop fighting is if they are seperated by a policeable, defendable, no-person-land."
What do you think Israel is doing by turning southern Lebanon into a cluster bomb mine field in 2006? If they aren't able to annex Gaza during this offensive, I would gamble that they will leave a cluster bomb barrier behind as they pull out...
It would be part of the economic warfare Israel is waging against Gaza...If they can't "Nuetralise" Gaza leadership, Israel will make sure Gaza farmers can't use open land to grow food for the people.
One of the most effective boycotts of apartheid South Africa was the sporting one. It succeeded, not just because South African teams could not play against other countries' teams (and South Africa are very very good at rugby union and cricket), but also because it hurt their pride. South Africans take their sport very seriously and the sporting boycott was taken seriously. And when SA was allowed back into the community of nations, and their rugby team was on the verge of winning the World Cup, the sight of President Mandela wearing a Springbok shirt and urging the team on was one of the great moments in sport.
So keep the Israeli sports teams off the rosters?
I'm trying my best not to laugh and make a non-PC joke or 20 here. The light reading joke in airplane I can't get out of my head though.
______________________________________
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies. " Groucho Marx
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
H. L. Mencken
I just tore up my mint condition Sandy Kofax rookie card in protest of Israel...
.Koufax, and even though I hated the Dodgers I loved watching him pitch!
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
ardee:you hated the Brooklyn Dodgers? or the LA? Only Rudy G. admitted to that, and he said it was because his father was for the Brooklyn Dodgers, so he was a Yankees fan. What was your team? (Disclosure:I was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, now a Mets fan, after a hiatus of no baseball from 1957 to 1985. I hate the Yankees....)
.I hated the Brooklyn Dodgers, I hate the LA version also. ( Hate is a rather strong word, but its in a sports context after all). I was born in the Bronx, so my early choices were limited to the Yankees or the Giants. As a resident of the Bronx I was obligated to hate 'dem bums'! The Yankees were too much like rooting for the front runner so I went with the underdog Giants. Still am a fan of the orange anbd black.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
ardee:My husband hated the Giants. He knew about the rivalry in the National League. I hated the Yankees. When I was a kid, the Bklyn Dodgers had Jackie Robinson. I saw the last game of the World Series in 1955 at a friend's apartment. I still remember it. And 1986.
I had relatives in the Bronx; was there twice as a little kid for weddings. Am a bit older than you. I now am a Mets fan, as I said, but since players move around so much (and didn't eons ago; free agency was good), I tend to root for certain players wherever they go, after they've been a Met. How great is the Mets gift to us all,in 2009? New bullpen pitcher J. J. Putz!!! I can't wait for the season to begin and hope he's staying.
."My husband hated the Giants"
We all have our own crosses to bear, I will try to think nice thoughts about him anyway!
On Oct. 8th, 1956 I had the distinct honor of accompanying my Father to Yankee Stadium, where he had been given two tickets for the world series game against your husband's Dodgers. In the row in front of us was a priest rooting for 'dem bums'. Along about the sixth inning, as Don Larsen worked his magic, my Dad leaned over and asked the priest if he was aware of what was happening out there. When the father nodded and shrugged my Dad said, and I remember it clearly," Father, we could use all the help we can get here, think you might switch sides for a couple more innings?".
Apparently that happened and I got to see my only perfect game ever! I still have the ticket stubs, framed in my den!
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We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Naomi Klein is right. The one thing more powerful than money is public opinion. And the strategy she is really advocating is not a bad one, not the boycott, that she rightly points out is just a tactic. But realistic reports and rational claims.
.Money buys public opinion...
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Gee, if public opinion is more powerful than money, then why is the former constantly ignored by US politicosas proven by many polls?
Chomsky calls it the "democracy gap".
I think this is a very good idea. Klein didn't mention that such a divestment and boycotting tactic would be portrayed as "antisemitic" by much of Israel's diehard apologists. Of course this has nothing to do with antisemitism since many Israeli Jews and Jews from around the world support divestment and boycotting Israel.
From 1948 to 1962, the U.S had an arms embargo on Israel. It would be great if it could be reinstated, although that seems extremely unlikely at this point. Besides the boycott, we must do everything we can to neutralize and expose AIPAC for what it is first, and other Zionist-Likudnik lobbying groups.
We have friends in Israel in the Peacenow movement - http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/homepage.asp
Don't forget the courageous Orthodox Jews against Zionism - http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
Give 'em, gal! You're right on the mark. What's not to love about a really decent woman and intellectual it hitting right on the mark? Stand your ground. The struggle continues-- thanks for the leadership.
AD
Naomi Klein I bought that book. You are a crdit to the human race. I feel the UK and independent states in the EU must be targeted to break ranks. God help us all for allowing complicity in this to terrible venture to persist. There has to be justice and criminals must be confronted, whatever the cost. Some country must break ranks.
I tie this to The Lisbon Treaty in Ireland being given a re-run. Let the elites Sarkozy and Merkle the Dutch, Belgians, the Czechs and Poles know that Lisbon is dead and the Irish people will not allow some EU foreign minister represent us in war crimes as EU solidarity persists.
Campaign in Ireland before the vote and ask at what cost would Irish people representing the European populations who have no say vote, follow this dreadful EU relationship with the rogue state's crimes. Unless and until The European Union severs all ties with Israel till it fully complies with International Law it dies with its ally forthwith. How dare the elites in European capitals disgard their citizens voices? Let them rot and stew with their Zionist masters. They will make Gazians of us all soon enough if they can. Waken up to the terror of the situation everybody who is human and free!!! What is democratic about what is happening in Gaza? Ask around the world with truth and information about realities. Nobody who is a human being could condone or support such barbarity. Those who do are either ignorant or liars and psychopaths, thieves and deluded lunatics, greedy, insatiable, selfish and cruel, mean and vile, lost and powerful usurers. We support them? Who are we?
Not me, my friends, my family or my Palestinian brothers and sisters. I will fight for them to-day and forever confronting such bullies and such terrorism. Break EU and USA first. Country by country. Divide and rule like they do. Go for their wallets, they are ours anyway. Good luck Naomi and God Bless. Thanks!
Naomi Klein was the Keynote Speaker at the Independent Jewish Voices (Canada)'s first meeting.
The IJV says: "As a Jew and on behalf of the Jews across Canada who support peace and justice, I stand in solidarity with Palestinian people in condemning the Israeli massacre of the people of Gaza."
(video of Klein's keynote speech is at the bottom)
http://ijvcanada.blogspot.com/
Naomi Klein's husband is Avi Lewis (also the offspring of two Jewish parents). Avi was covering the American election for Aljazeera. This is his piece on the Israli lobby:
Inside USA - Lobbying for Israel - 05 April 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOvdQ7vPLn0
When Avi hosted The Big Picture, he became very upset with one Zionist guest who made Avital (the Israeli spokesperson) seem almost normal by comparison.
Naomi's married? Darn!
Yeah I bought that book too when I normally get books from the library specifically to support Naomi Klein and the resurgence of a serious economic analysis from the left which I think is damn important. I also support the buycott of Citgo. Seeing as our protests are ignored by the corporate MSM, and our petitions ad well by the bought off government economic carrots and sticks may be the only tool we have for now to change policy.
Why are you boycotting Citgo?
"Venezuelan-owned Citgo Petroleum, which had indicated earlier it might end a home heating oil assistance program for low-income Americans, said yesterday it had decided to continue the program. Citgo chief executive Alejandro Granado cited "the current global financial crisis and its impact on the oil industry in general" as reasons for renewing the assistance. Before Christmas, Citgo, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Venezuelan state oil company, had told the nonprofit group Citizens Energy, which administers the program, that the effort was "suspended until further notice." The program provided assistance to 200,000 households in 23 states last year."
Complete story at:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-world085991739jan08,0,6209909.story
-- ekaton aka d.k.shaw
They wrote BUYcott not boycott...
I stand corrected. A buycott of Citgo makes total sense. The topic being the boycott of Isreal, I misread buycott as boycott.
-- ekaton aka d.k.shaw
We just need Bob Dylan, Ringo Starr , Lou Reed, Peter Gabriel, Jackson Browne , U2, Keith Richards, Ronnie Wood, Bonnie Raitt, and Joey Ramone to take a stand again.
Bet some of their mothers will be pretty disappointed.
On a more serious note Annie Lennox has been speaking up at protests in London.
The real trick is that the big money comes from the US taxpayers. Boycotting that will be about the same as saying I'm boycotting the Iraq war.
______________________________________
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies. " Groucho Marx
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
H. L. Mencken
"We just need Bob Dylan, Ringo Starr , Lou Reed, Peter Gabriel, Jackson Browne , U2, Keith Richards, Ronnie Wood, Bonnie Raitt, and Joey Ramone to take a stand again."
Good luck in digging up Joey's body; his grave in NJ is surrounded by barbed wire (or it should be).
Dylan is a pretty strong supporter of Israel. See his song Neighborhood Bully. Not surprising for someone so intelligent. I don't think any of those people are going to openly support terrorism, which is what criticizing Israel amounts to.
Anyway, people are welcome to try boycotts and sanctions against Israel. Unfortunately, without public support, which doesn't exist, it won't work. But go ahead and try.
Dylan went to Israel as a stunt MikeP mainly to fuck with his public image, he's no ones talking point tin soldier, unlike you:
"Dylan did almost anything to shatter the lofty image many people had of him. He writes that he intentionally made bad records, and once poured whiskey over his head in public.
He also writes that, as a stunt, he went to Israel and made a point of having his picture taken at the Wailing Wall wearing a skullcap. When he went to Israel, he writes that the newspapers changed him overnight into a Zionist. How did this help?
CBS) "If the common perception of me out there in the public was that I was either a drunk, or I was a sicko, or a Zionist, or a Buddhist, or a Catholic, or a Mormon – all of this was better than 'Archbishop of Anarchy,'" says Dylan, referring to being considered the voice of a generation opposed to everything.
Dylan was especially opposed to the media, which he says were always trying to pin him down. He wrote, "The press, I figured, you lied to it."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/02/60minutes/main658799.shtml
Mikep thinks "criticizing Israel" amounts to "open support for terrorism."
Is he for real?
I dare them to arrest me for such "support for terrorism"...the shackles of fear are right now being broken around the world. Israel is generating a world wide storm against its evil tyranny. A day of reconning is coming for Israel and its backers.
Of course you are right. This should have been done years ago. I only hope its not too late...
Come on, even Chomsky disagrees with divesting against Israel.
What about the people of Israel? What about the children?
Aren't you all the same people who argued against using sanctions in Iraq, because we had to think of the Iraqi people?
But I guess you feel it's fine to starve Zionist for the crime of defending themselves.
Regardless, there are not enough Israel-haters out there to make a boycott effective.
.Frankly I am unaware if anything can restore your severely damaged reputation at this forum. But the inclusion of links in support of your claims might be a start in that direction. I am unaware of Chomsky's views on this subject, perhaps you might enlighten me with a link to that position?
I wont hold my breath.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
.Ok so, in the interest of truth and clarity I didn't wait for smarmy,errr, Joe, to provide what he should have originally....Here's Mr. Chomsky's position on the boycott:
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2002/2002-July/017363.html
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
The comments of a committed fool are consistently irrelevant.
The Glue That Holds Chaos Together
All excellent points, but let's be more specific and suggest that we need to get non-stop video feeds from Gaza sent to the States and the rest of the world, through government enforced media coverage.
Pathos,
Why wouldn't the Israeli government/Military allow reporters into Gaza if they themselves figured that they were doing everything above board?
Seems that you only bar reporters (or make it too dangerous for them to stay) if you have something to hide.