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TechnoratiThe Republicans' Dirty Secret... Torture
So what will be left of the Republican Party after next week's US election? The answer lies in the sands of Florida, where the sunshine-state Republicans have nominated an unrepentant torturer as their candidate for Congress. They view his readiness to torture an innocent Iraqi not as a source of shame, but as his prime qualification for office. This is American conservatism in the dying days of Bush - and it points out the direction that Sarah Palin would like to take it in 2012.
In August 2003, Colonel Allen West - commanding a US unit in Baghdad - heard a rumour that one of the Iraqi policeman he was working with was a secret insurgent. He ordered his officers to go and seize Yehiya Hamoodi, a thin, bespectacled 31-year-old, from his home. They dragged him into a Humvee, beat him, and then handcuffed, shackled and blindfolded him. In a dank interrogation room, they told him he had better start talking.
Perplexed and terrified, Yehiya explained he didn't know what they were talking about: why was he here? So West was called in. He told Yehiya he was going to be killed. While his men beat him again, he explained he had one last chance to save his life - by talking.
Yehiya protested: I am innocent! What are you talking about? So West took him outside, had him pinned down, and began to shoot. First he fired into the air. Then he ordered his men to ram Yehiya's head into a barrel used for cleaning weapons - and fired right next to his head. Then he began to count down from five. Finally Yehiya began to scream out names - any name he could think of, just to make it stop.
The men he named were seized and roughed up in turn. No evidence was found of any plot, and after another 45 days of terror, Yehiya was released. Today, he is severely traumatised, and collapses when he sees a Humvee approaching. The story only came to light after one of West's soldiers began to protest against these practices, and the Pentagon launched an investigation. At a pre-trial hearing, West was fined $5,000, and now concedes grudgingly: "It's possible I was wrong about Mr Hamoodi." But he says he would do it again, and again, and again.
West has even taken to joking about it, gaining applause for telling Republican audiences: "It wasn't torture. Seeing Rosie O'Donnell naked would be torture." But the 1994 Convention Against Torture, to which the US is a signatory, is explicit: "Threat of imminent death" is the third form of torture it outlaws. There are reams of studies showing it can traumatise a person for life.
Yet the Republican Party has rallied to the defence of this torturer, and of torture in general. The Bush administration has ordered the simulated drowning of "high-value" suspects, and set up secret black ops sites across the world where it is practiced. After Afghan detainees were hanged from the ceiling and beaten to death, the officers responsible were merely given a "letter of reprimand".
West's "toughness" is fawned over; one leading conservative magazine has even named him its Man of the Year. And Sarah Palin, the Party's darling, mocks Barack Obama's opposition to torture. She complains: "Al-Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America [and] he's worried that someone won't read them their rights." Palin is fond of saying that she "won't blink when it comes to terror", but if you don't blink, your corneas dry out, and you go blind.
At first, the rise of John McCain looked like a repudiation of torture. McCain was tortured by the Viet Cong for three years, and the beatings were so vicious that even today he can't raise his arms to brush his own hair. For a time, he was a loud, proud opponent of torture - but then he caved. In February 2008, he voted to allow the CIA to be excluded from the ban on torture - when he knows the CIA who are the prime American torturers today.
Then, when the Supreme Court ruled that Guantanamo detainees have basic habeas corpus rights, McCain called it "one of the worst decisions in the history of the country." If McCain will compromise on this, he will compromise on anything. He has tried to flip-flop back, saying he would ban torture after all, but if he tried now, he would face mass rebellion from his own party and Vice-President. It is unthinkable he would permit war crimes tribunals of the Party colleagues who ordered this torture.
The advocates of torture love to wheel out the ticking bomb scenario served up every week on 24. But think about what it requires. You have to (a) be certain you have captured a bomber in the very brief window between him planting a bomb and it blowing up, yet (b) have no idea where the bomb is. This has never happened, anywhere in the world, ever.
No: what happens in reality is Yehiya Hamoodi. You get a man you kinda-sorta suspect; you torture him; and you get junk intelligence leading you up wrong paths. What would you confess to if I put a gun to your head and started counting down from five?
Once you start to torture it doesn't just stay in the neat mind-experiments favoured by philosophers. After the Israeli supreme court approved torture in very limited circumstances, soldiers were soon torturing two thirds of the Palestinians they held captive. Professor David Luban explains: "Escalation is the rule, not the aberration. Abu Ghraib is the fully predictable image of what a torture culture looks like."
There are no recorded instances of getting useable intelligence from torture - but even if in some freak instance after you have tortured a thousand Yahiyas you finally did, would it outweigh the damage of handing al Qaeda a thousand new recruits, vindicating Bin Laden's hate-talk and breaching the most basic moral codes?
The gap between the Republican and Democratic Parties is too narrow, but on this issue it is hefty. The Republicans have curdled into the Party of Torture, bullying their torture-victim nominee into backing their barbarism, and proudly picking a torturer as their candidate for Congress. That sound of screaming from inside the Palin-drome isn't just from fawning Republicans - it's from men like Yehiya.
38 Comments so far
Show AllSince right wing ideologues support torture and that through them Habeus corpus was abolished, along with the introduction of the Patriot act (all three were policies created by Republicans by the way...), Should not right wing people have a taste of their own medicine when the left wing people are put into power? Call it reverse McCarthyism :-) If the French, the Cubans, and the Russians could do it, the USA could too.
snydly
Torture is not to make the soldiers safer or the war shorter or stop an attack. Torture is to cover the tracks of the perps of false flag ops and war crimes. The info given up during torture is generally junk, unless one knows what they're looking for. Which may be why Cheney wanted raw interrogation data sent directly to him, un-analysed. Somewhere in our intelligence agencies are principled people who have no tolerance for the insult this kind of crime puts on our great nation and the many who have sacrificed to bring the ideals of our Constitution upward through history. I hope the next administration gives them the cover they need to come forward and do what is right.
The Republicans logically thought we liked torture because there is no other way to explain someone listening to a second attempt at a sentence by Bu$h the inferior.
The entire Republican program is based identifying anyone it is safe to ridicule, abuse, violate, or punish. Why wouldn't they torture?
Nietzsche
Rene Girard (Professor Andrew B. Hammond) proposed a brilliant theory in the seventies that had always been true, but is especially prophetic for our time.
When communities begin to detect stress faults in society a scapegoat is always chosen who is unwilling or unable to defend himself. Any group will do: Jews, immigrants, black skins, liberals, atheists,...
The community that was in danger of falling apart becomes united in their agreement that the chosen scapegoat is the cause of all the problems. The longer the threat to society lasts, the more blatant becomes the persecution of the scapegoat.
Republicans since the wizardry of Lee Atwater have become more and more adept at scapegoating any opposition or criticism as being un-American, unpatriotic, evil, lying, and vindictive.
The truth of course is that they have in every instance projected the worst of themselves onto their opponents, and it worked so well that there is actually some doubt, even now, about whether we will be governed by a senile, dying old man or the best hope for competent leadership to have come along in decades.
This election may be the most important in the history of this country, and nobody can stop the USA from becoming bankrupt.
Nietzsche
Rene Girard (Professor Andrew B. Hammond) proposed a brilliant theory in the seventies that had always been true, but is especially prophetic for our time.
When communities begin to detect stress faults in society a scapegoat is always chosen who is unwilling or unable to defend himself. Any group will do: Jews, immigrants, black skins, liberals, atheists,...
The community that was in danger of falling apart becomes united in their agreement that the chosen scapegoat is the cause of all the problems. The longer the threat to society lasts, the more blatant becomes the persecution of the scapegoat.
Republicans since the wizardry of Lee Atwater have become more and more adept at scapegoating any opposition or criticism as being un-American, unpatriotic, evil, lying, and vindictive.
The truth of course is that they have in every instance projected the worst of themselves onto their opponents, and it worked so well that there is actually some doubt, even now, about whether we will be governed by a senile, dying old man or the best hope for competent leadership to have come along in decades.
This election may be the most important in the history of this country, and nobody can stop the USA from becoming bankrupt.
The key to the public mindset that allows torture practice to be accepted: mind control. "The Unit," presented as "television entertainment," is one tool. And quite effective, I think.
Just one more parallel to Nazi war crimes. Main difference was that they were held accountable with war crimes trials. More and more Americans are demanding accountability. Spread the word. We need a reckoning.
Torture, there are all kinds of torture.
Cointel pro gang stalking is torture. Its been picked up as a tool for illegal Patriot act warrant less surveillance at the community watch group level.
Its being taught to local law enforcement agencies as an effective way of destroying a target without leaving a trail.
Its happening nation wide, people that are peace activists, have Muslim friends, Muslims, anyone that the community leaders deem to be a threat to the twisted Pro-Patriot, Anti-American, religious righteousness ideology.
They will follow 24/7, and let you know it, they will run cars with loud music by your home every 15 minutes letting you know they are watching.
Ems and Firetrucks will run by your home with sirens blasting to warn surveillance crews that you are leaving in your car.
There surveillance teams are easy to spot , because they are right wing religious whack jobs.Their cars have the common Jesus , Mccain-Palin stickers, military license plates and stickers. They will crowd you wherever you go in public.
They will do it for years until they can prove that you are a delusional threat to the community.
And they do it hiding behind the cloak of Gods righteousness.
God help you if you live near a military base, like Mccdill in Tampa.
They have their own crews.
This is a large group of very sick people being led by a large group of power hungry, unconstitutional thugs.Law enforcement, Firefighters and EMS first responders.I am sorry , but what other description can you use for public servants that will not protect the constitution and will abuse and destroy people by leading mob rule groups, Judge-Jury- and executioner.
A untraceable method of torture, fear mongering at the community level building spy torture groups for future use of controlling a city,county or state.
Ask Colonel West if he would allow himself to be tortured for the same amount of time ,using the same methods he applied to his victim. No , better yet, don't ask him, just do it, make the threat of imminent death real.
Then ask him if he would do it again, and again, and again.
I am tired of this non-intellectual John Wayne Super hero cowboy mentality that is strangling this country.
Americans, should not be lead by the right wing religious whack jobs and the military industrial complex.
We are a nation of intellects that obey the rule of law.Constitutional Law.
And "WE THE PEOPLE" run this country, its time we reminded those power hungry freaks.
Vote. It counts now more than ever, remove every Right Wing Religious Republican from office NOW. Stop their anti-American name calling and fear mongering.
Our Founding Father were correct , separation of Church and Sate is a must.
And we now have seen why.
BornFreeMen
Nietzsche
This mood fostered by the far right is not merely non-intellectual, it's anti-intellectual. They actually take pride in the Ronald Reagan mentality. It comes and goes. In 1890 it was verbalized as "Our country, may she always be right; but right or wrong--OUR COUNTRY".
This kind of blind obedience is not something to take pride in and all conservatives have always, to a greater or lesser degree, worn it like a badge of honor. This is part of what makes me despise them. I have no desire to come together with these dolts so we can all be Americans. It's just too god damned dumb.
Until and unless the presumptive Democratic Congress holds public, comprehensive, courageous hearings and appoints special prosecutors, the US will continue to be, and be seen as, a rogue state. The trail should be followed all the way to the Oval Office. Restoration of the rule of law demands the respect for the rights of victims, the obligation to make whatever amends possible, the deterrence of future crimes by rigorous punishment of the guilty, and measures to prevent future abuses.
That the Christian and Jewish right wings, the most self-consciously devout people in our country, support and condone such foul behavior is prima facie evidence of their hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy.
Alex
If the gap is so wide between Dems and Repugs on torture, then why did leading Dems, including Pelosi and Jane Harmon, approve of it when briefed about it, and even call for harsher treatment?
Torture has never been intended to produce sound intelligence -- false confessions is what the devils are after, confessions that provide post-hoc rationalization of the torture.
Rhetorically and substantively, Barack Obama has treated his opposition to torture much like his opposition to the 2003 invasion of Iraq: he briefly reminds voters he was against it, remains against it, and will end it, and then moves on to another topic in the laundry list of issues considered more pressing and germane to the instant presidential campaign. In his speech yesterday in Canton, Ohio for instance, while castigating John McCain's smear tactics and his Bushie philosophy positions on taxes, health care, the Wall Street bail out and so forth, Obama in one short sentence paused to specifically praise McCain for his legislative opposition to torture, and then moved on to other subjects.
I think John Hari is correct that the GOP should be held politically accountable for adopting torture as official US policy. The problem is that the time to do that was 2004, and the person to hold accountable was George W. Bush. For reasons that still remain shrouded in mystery, the Kerry campaign never mentioned Abu Ghraib, torture, rendition, or the Geneva Conventions in any of the presidential debates, or in any of their TV advertising or stump speeches.
Little George thus got a complete pass despite his personal complicity in authorizing the Gitmo/Bagram/Abu Ghraib torture gulag, based on the disingenuous legal advice of Alberto Gonzales (whom Bush then named Attorney General). If, as aussidog's post and others often charge, Nancy Pelosi was told about the torture in a classified White House briefing and that co-optation under the guise of Congressional oversight produced a Democratic beltway establishment decision never to talk about torture in the 2004 presidential campaign (and to even back off on impeachment), then that was an incomprehensively stupid partisan miscalculation of shameless and staggering proportion.
George W. Bush campaigned in 2000 on a promise to restore morality to the Oval Office. He gave us instead stacks of shit-stained naked Arabs piled into homoerotic tableaus with sacks over their heads, prisoners ostensibly being "softened up" for interrogation by CIA operatives Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld personally authorized to "take the gloves off."
Now here was a pristine moral values issue presented to the Democrats upon a silver platter, a what-would-Jesus-think issue that resonated with many people, including a sizable number of fundamentalist Christians. Instead, what the American electorate got in 2004 was total silence about the entire question of torture.
Barack Obama, in turn, would be bat shit crazy to try to use torture as a partisan issue against John McCain in the 2008 campaign. McCain's personal biography totally inoculates him on this issue, even when he authors and votes for the CIA exception that swallows the anti-torture rule.
The time for fixing domestic political accountability for Bush's torture policies have passed. If there is ever to be legal accountability, it will have to be under international law, in an international forum, like with Pinochet.
Bill from Saginaw
An excellent summation of events and reality. Thanks.
I honestly thought, after the filth of what this country did at Abu Ghraib (a name Herr Bush has never pronounced correctly) was revealed, the torturers would eventually be brought to justice. I also thought that the shame inherent in this would lay the Bush regime open to scrutiny that it could not stand against. I was wrong. This country has embraced torture as policy, and Obama isn't speaking out against it because he is, by definition, not against it. He, as they all do, says he'll do whatever is necessary to "protect this country"...and torture is one of their tools, regardless of the immorality, and reality that it produces zero intelligence. I wish it were different with Obama, but the simple fact now is, if you aren't standing against it, you are enabling it's use.
I've seen and heard Frau Palin make the comments indicated in this article, and it is beyond chilling, it is disgusting. The false equivalency they practice crosses all boundaries, and now, per her characterization, torture is no worse than failing to read a suspect their rights...which by the way, is not an inconsequential oversight.
It's the master race mentality that all those who brutalize others take as their own....we're Americans and we can do no wrong, even if we do stuff that looks wrong. By most American's definition, Americans ONLY do good, therefore, even if it can be proven that we did bad, the preceding definition remains. America good, everyone else, bad. We're only as bad as we are against the unclean sub-human "others" because we're so good! Nice logic, huh?
The master race mentality reduces all outsiders to sub-humans, which leaves the door wide open to torture, brutality and death. What this all misses is our common humanity...ALL people's common humanity, not just the convenient ones you like. It is the very characteristics of our common humanity that makes us all vulnerable to this exact form of bestiality. Torture destroys the tortured, and the torturer, by destroying their humanity...which is the only thing we've got that separates us from the likes of sharks, scorpions and lions. Or, common house cats, who delight in torturing their mouse (and bird) captives, before they kill them and eat them.
We are burrowing back into the jungle, and each day that criminals like this vicious lunatic from Florida walk free, is another day further into the jungle of savagery, inhumanity and the destruction of civilization as we know it. The strong ALWAYS victimize the weak, and today is no different than a thousand years ago...it's just that we have more sophisticated tools to inflict the savagery of our inner animals. That said, some of the classics still hold sway...like waterboarding, a favorite method since the dark ages. If it was good for our great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, it's good enough for us today! We don't need no cattle-prods when we've got bamboo shoots.
Honestly, the only way this ends, is if the responsible parties are arrested, tried, and if found guilty, sentenced to the maximum penalties the law allows. This means Herr Bush and his coterie of torturers et al. If this is not done, the next set of torturers will be worse...more brazen, more brutal, more all encompassing. This problem is not going away, and it is only now at the easiest level to deal with. After this, if Bush and his goons are allowed to walk away, the next will be far more difficult to remove from power. This is a country of precedents, and our Presidents depend on that to push beyond the boundaries of government, law and civilization itself. That's to say, be it Obama or McCain, the next President will run with the powers that the previous President established as acceptable. And this is unacceptable. If this continues, we are all in the iron maiden, because torturers typically pull their methods close, and use them against all who challenge their hegemony. That means you and me...along with all other human beings on this unfortunate world of ours.
guntotinganglion says:
"Honestly, the only way this ends, is if the responsible parties are arrested, tried, and if found guilty, sentenced to the maximum penalties the law allows. This means Herr Bush and his coterie of torturers et al. If this is not done, the next set of torturers will be worse...more brazen, more brutal, more all encompassing."
I agree this is paramount. But, specifically, how do we hold them accountable with such a reluctant Congress? How do we get the "ball rolling"????
The law would be a good place to start. Tough sell with this Justice Department, but this too shall pass. Likelihood of bringing the criminals to trial is zero with McCain as President, unless the House and Senate have commanding (and filibuster-proof) Democratic majorities. Preferably, Obama would be President, and he'd support a no-holds barred investigation of criminal fraud, war crimes, crimes against humanity, torture, murder, illegal wars of regime change, illegal wars of plunder, graft, corruption, mayhem, robbery, embezzlement, bank fraud, racketeering, voter fraud, voter suppression...the list continues.
What is needed then, is a campaign to contact our Reps and Senators, demanding a Special Prosecutor be appointed, with broad powers to investigate EVERYTHING that's gone on, and wrong, in the last 8 years. We MUST DEMAND a Special Prosecutor be appointed! Probably be good to co-ordinate with the International Court of Justice in the Hague, to prosecute the war crimes, and crimes against humanity...and wars of aggression.
And remember, once Herr Bush is out of office, no need to impeach. He is, unless I missed something, Joe Six Pack (citizen) when he leaves, aka indictable. No extra measures required of a US citizen, than an indictment.
We are the only ones that can make this happen. It's a slim chance, but the only one any of us really has. Our votes mean shit, but perhaps a concerted letter/e-mail writing campaign could move the Democrats if they're actually the power in the government over the next many years. We shall see.
Thanks for the detailed answer. Again, I agree. A coordinated campaign towards contacting Reps and Senators would wield more power in concert with individuals contacting their members of Congress.
However, I do think it will be tricky because Bush and his cohorts used the Dept. of Justice to great effect in their efforts to protect themselves against possible prosecution.
Indeed, in October 17, 2006 Bush signed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 which says in part:
"SEC. 5. TREATY OBLIGATIONS NOT ESTABLISHING GROUNDS FOR CERTAIN CLAIMS… (a) IN GENERAL.—No person may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto in any habeas corpus or other civil action or proceeding to which the United States, or a current or former officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent of the United States is a party as a source of rights in any court of the United States or its States or territories."
According to the transcript for the documentary "Torturing Democracy": "The new law stripped the courts of the power to hear cases based on Geneva. And, in a provision that had been pushed hard by the Vice President, it granted retroactive immunity to U.S. officials who might have carried out – or ordered – torture."
I do agree we, all of us, ought to make every effort to hold the Bush people accountable.
I would hope also, should Obama be our next president, that he can be persuaded to relinquish much of the "Unitary Executive" power Bush has co-opted under the guise of fighting terrorism. To reinstate FISA. To close Guantanamo. To no longer imprison people without charge and no longer deny habeas corpus because of the wrong-headed notion that this is somehow the power of the Executive (as Bush has done.) I would hope...
One of the technicalities in all this is Herr Bush using the term "War President" to justify literally all of his crimes. This term however, requires that war actually be declared, which it has not been (since December 1941). Thus, he is NOT a War President, and all of the extraordinary powers he claimed, are, to put it bluntly, bull-shit. He is actually exposed to law, it's just time for the law be exposed to him, and his goons.
I believe I've read that the retroactive immunity that they've engineered for themselves, is easily cast aside from a legal standpoint. It's akin to them having murdered (which they have) and then enacting legislation that, for their specific purpose, makes murder legal. That boat won't float. And it is my opinion that, if they open these issues to public scrutiny, and the law is to prevail, all the retroactive ass covering their doing will be revealed for what it is, legal cover for a vast set of crimes that were done with full and complete knowledge aforethought that they were ALL very serious felonies.
Basically, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 is deeply unconstitutional, and will likely be overturned at some future date. Even the heavily politicized Supreme Court is unlikely to let this pass if the nature of the crimes can be communicated to them. These things were all done in the guise of national security, while the reality of ALL of this is, it was a vendetta, that just happened to provide cover for a vast criminal opportunity (think hundreds of billions gone "missing" in the fog of war) to defraud everyone in sight, including ALL Americans, and ALL Iraqis. Elizabeth de la Vega (former federal prosecutor and author of "United States v. George W. Bush et al.") said it best, this is world class fraud...and, when I asked her after a talk of hers if she thought these guys were idiots who just fell into this criminal opportunity, or are simply very good at what they've done, she said they are world class criminals and have been very effective in perpetrating fraud and covering their asses throughout (I paraphrase).
Perhaps, in the end, our only hope is for the international community to do their duty as signatories to the Geneva Conventions, and demand that any of these criminals be taken into custody if they EVER enter their sovereign countries. All signatories to the Conventions have a duty to do this, including the United States. However, being the master race that most Americans think of themselves as, the United States will certainly not uphold their commitments to the Conventions, or the International Court of Justice. I think the contempt this country has developed for all countries not America can best be exemplified by Herr Bush's comment from Sept. 15, 2006 in this regard...
"This debate is occurring because of the Supreme Court's ruling that said that we must conduct ourselves under the Common Article III of the Geneva Convention. And that Common Article III says that there will be no outrages upon human dignity. It's very vague. What does that mean, "outrages upon human dignity"? That's a statement that is wide open to interpretation."
Simply put, anyone who cannot understand the term "outrages upon human dignity", shouldn't be allowed to wield power over ANYONE!
Yes, how do they reason it? Something like "unconstitutionally interferes with the powers/responsibilities of the commander-in-chief in time of war"....but no declaration of war by Congress as required by the Constitution. Hmmm....
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I think, therefore I am dangerous.
The saddest thing is, the opposition has been sitting on their hands while this criminal destroys the country. That makes them, by definition, part of it. I just wish that third party candidates actually had a chance, but the corporatocracy has total control, and thus, we get two real choices only...which is only one away from dictatorship. We have the absolute minimum requirement for Democracy, and we saw how well that went in 2000 and 2004.
Really and truly, this country is finished. Bush and his pack of goons won. And in winning, they tossed aside every law that they ever came across. The fact of this psychopath taking control of the highest office in the land, by hook and by crook, is a clear statement that the Constitution is null and void, and that only the laws he wishes to acknowledge need apply. He stole and cheated his way into the office, and then he decimated the Constitution, and in so doing, made the military-industrial-congressional complex a great deal of money (through "preventative war"). We have now adopted Adolf Hitler's concept of "preventative war", which is to say, we can attack anyone we like, anytime we like, for any reason (or lack thereof) we like. International conventions be damned. Just say they're a threat, and we can attack them regardless of inconveniences like "facts", "evidence" or "morality"...all of which can be fabricated to meet any "need".
I was intending on voting for Nader, but now I realize there's no point, cause voting is just an opiate for the masses anyway. I truly believe that my vote counts for nothing, so, just in case I'm wrong, I guess I'll toss a vote toward Obama, but as usual, it's not because I like him, it's because John McCain is anathema to me. Not that he can destroy the country, since Herr Bush has already done that, but perhaps Obama might not be quite the paranoid schizophrenic idiot that McCain is. It's not much, but it's all I've got.
At least pick your votes for your local races and state initiatives carefully, they affect your life infinitely more.
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I think, therefore I am dangerous.
Cruelty and Corruption - these are the GOP and the Bush Crime Family Values we all know.
Benito Mussolini, Joe Stalin and Joe McCarthy all used this.
Why hasn't the Obama campaigned uttered a single word against torture? If he has, I haven't heard it. Why haven't democrats made this a rallying cry for why we (rightly) need to obliterate the Republican party? Perhaps if the Republicans lose big, it will be the start of ending BOTH major political parties! That thought cheers me up!! (;
I will be using it as a rallying cry against the Republicans, believe me. I have also been using the article on here from several weeks ago "America's Elephant in the Room" to show how Republicans in general and specifically the conservative power-wielders have destroyed this country. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am sick of "liberal" being a four letter word the Republicans throw out everywhere...it's time to make "conservative" that four letter word :-)
Jeevee
The only thing that can save this country is GENUINE SPIRITUALITY.
Nietzsche
You are talking about a commodity that has always been actively suppressed by government, business, and the fake spiritually promoted by these professional manipulators.
What did Nancy Pelosi know and when did she know it?
It's the Democrats little secret, too, is it not? Where does Johann Hari think the use of torture comes from? It comes from places like Chicago, Illinois, Pardner, which has been torturing Black POWs in its jails while Obama slept on ever since way back before the times of 1968 and Democratic Party Mayor Daley's reign there. How dare the donkey voters and pushers get off on pushing the responsibilty for US torutre off onto only the Republicans. You guys are part of the 'bipartisan' group that runs the show.
Yup. It would appear that the reason Nancy Pelosi has taken impeachment of Bu$h/Cheney "off the table" since day one of her becomming Speaker of the House is that she herself explicitly endorsed the use of waterboarding and other forms of torture on captured (suspected) al Queida and Taliban leaders during a closed door meeting with three other representatives and George Tenet in 2002. In fact, several of the representatives attending that meeting asked if waterboarding was harsh enough (it is unknown if Pelosi was one of those questioning whether waterboarding was harsh enough or if other, more brutal methods of torture should be used.) For Pelosi to make an attempt at impeaching the chimp and Cheney would be like putting her own neck in the noose.
This country has become a place that absolutely disgusts me. When I was growing up during the late 50's and early 60's, I was taught that the United States was a role model for the entire world in its respect for human rights. What a fucking lie that turned out to be! Bu$h, Cheney, Rice, and all of the other "Christians" in this administration need to get a real life taste of the golden rule and get a dose of their own medicine. Perhaps by doing that, they will confess to multitude of other crimes they have committed.
No wonder the Iraq population is turning against us. Hamoodi and the people he implicated all have reasons to hate us, they have friends and family that will hate us. I want an America that lives to higher values the beacon on the hill, not the people we've become.
"For many persons have such strength of body and soul that they heed pain very little, so that there is no means of obtaining the truth from them, while others are so susceptible to pain that they will tell any lie rather than suffer it."
-Domitus Ulpianus (3rd Cent AD)
"It has been recognized at all times that this manner of interrogating human beings, of putting them under torture, produces nothing good. The unfortunates say whatever comes into their heads, and everything they think we want to know."
-Napoleon Bonaparte, 1799
"We should not torture or treat inhumanely terrorists we have captured. ... In my experience, abuse of prisoners often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear -- whether it is true or false -- if he believes it will relieve his suffering. I was once physically coerced to provide my enemies with the names of the members of my flight squadron, information that had little if any value to my enemies as actionable intelligence. ... I gave them the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line."
- John McCain
Trouble is, American torture camps are far from a “secret”. And despite the lack of real news outlets, their existence is widely known, even inside America. And the lack of outrage is deafening. Torture has become, in America, banal.
Anyone know what district this fucker is running in? I know it's not in the Tampa Bay area.
Nevermind, found his campaign website. http://www.allenwestforcongress.com/
A black Republican who loves to torture people running for Congress in Palm Beach County. God, I can't wait to move out of South Florida for good.
ZachP,
Have patience. I grew up in Tampa and got the hell out of there seven years ago. What can you expect when you mix together MacDill/Centcom, fundamentalist churches on every other corner, and 7th Ave in Ybor City? A giant mess that conservative Republicans try to control. I am in Massachusetts now - it feels like a different country around here.
Vote Nader/Gonzales '08
Well I'm only here for school, and I'm graduating in a month in a half, then back to Ft. Lauderdale until I find a job. I personally love New England, I have tons of family in New Hampshire. I really want to live there..I just guess I need a car first..as bad as public transit is here in Hillsborough, I doubt it's any better in those mountainous areas.
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I think, therefore I am dangerous.
Is he voting against a white person? Electing him could be symbolically important as we were lectured about in other articles this week. Who cares what his positions on issues are, right gang?
This dude personally directed the torture of an innocent person. About 60 years ago, we executed people for that kind of shit in Nuremberg.
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I think, therefore I am dangerous.
You hit the nail on the head Zach. Either these guys are guilty, or every Nazi below Hitler was "just following orders" and therefore innocent. *shudder*