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TechnoratiWhat Lies Beneath the War in Afghanistan
Many North Americans still buy this lie because they believe the 9/11 attacks came directly from the Afghanistan-based al-Qaida and Taliban movements.
False. The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, and conducted mainly by U.S.-based Saudis to punish America for supporting Israel.
Taliban, a militant religious, anti-Communist movement of Pashtun tribesmen, was totally surprised by 9/11. Taliban received U.S. aid until May, 2001. The CIA was planning to use Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida to stir up Muslim Uighurs against Chinese rule, and Taliban against Russia's Central Asian allies.
Al-Qaida only numbered 300 members. Most have been killed. A handful escaped to Pakistan. Only a few remain in Afghanistan. Yet President Barack Obama insists 68,000 or more U.S. troops must stay in Afghanistan to fight al-Qaida and prevent extremists from re-acquiring "terrorist training camps."
This claim, like Saddam Hussein's non-existent weapons of mass destruction, is a handy slogan to market war to the public. Today, half of Afghanistan is under Taliban control. Anti-American militants could more easily use Somalia, Indonesia, Bangladesh, North and West Africa, or Sudan. They don't need remote Afghanistan. The 9/11 attacks were planned in apartments, not camps.
The United States should not be waging war on Taliban. However backwards and oafish its Pashtun tribesmen, they have no desire or interest in attacking America. Even less, Canada.
Taliban are the sons of the U.S.-backed mujahidin who defeated the Soviets in the 1980s. As I have been saying since 9/11, Taliban never was America's enemy. Instead of invading Afghanistan in 2001, the U.S. should have paid Taliban to uproot al-Qaida.
The Pashtun tribes want to end foreign occupation and drive out the Afghan Communists, who now dominate the U.S.-installed Kabul regime. But the U.S. has blundered into a full-scale war not just with Taliban, but with most of Afghanistan's fierce Pashtun tribes, who comprise over half the population.
Obama is wrestling with widening the war. After eight years of military operations costing $236 billion US, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan just warned of the threat of "failure," a.k.a. defeat. Canada has so far wasted $16 billion Cdn. on the war. Western occupation forces will be doomed if the Afghan resistance ever gets modern anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles.
The U.S. is sinking ever deeper into the South Asian morass. Washington is trying to arm-twist Pakistan into being more obedient and widening the war against its own independent-minded Pashtun tribes -- wrongly called "Taliban."
Washington's incredibly ham-handed efforts to use $7.5 billion US to bribe Pakistan's feeble, corrupt government and army, take control of military promotions, and get a grip on Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, have Pakistan's soldiers on the verge of revolt.
Obama has been under intense pressure from flag-waving Republicans, much of the media, and the hawkish national security establishment to expand the war. Israel's supporters, including many Congressional Democrats, want to see the U.S. seize Pakistan's nuclear arms and expand the Afghan war into Iran.
Obama should admit Taliban is not and never was a threat to the West; that the wildly exaggerated al-Qaida has been mostly eradicated; and that the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan is causing more damage to U.S. interests in the Muslim world -- now 25% of all humanity -- than Bin Laden and his few rag-tag allies. The bombing in Madrid and London, and conspiracy in Toronto, were all horribly wrongheaded protests by young Muslims against the Afghan war.
We are not going to change the way Afghans treat their women by waging war on them, or bring democracy through rigged elections.
I wish Obama would just declare victory in Afghanistan, withdraw western forces, and hand over security to a multi-national stabilization force from Muslim nations. Good presidents, like good generals, know when to retreat.
87 Comments so far
Show AllHaven't read Vonnegut in decades. Ought to go back. I suspect he has literary routes to Latin American magical realism, although more cynical no doubt. Didn't he survive the Dresden firestorm?
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Vonnegut's story of the two bugs in a jar is instructive here.
The boys playing with them were entertained when they fought each other---but the bugs would not fight unless the boys shook the jar...
Boy, NASA sure is dumb, firing those scrap missiles/rockets/ whatever into the moon to cause an explosion and then photograph it to try to discover whether there is WATER on the Moon. Of course there is water on the moon. After all, it's made of cheese. Jeez. Come to think of it, there's also oil in cheese. Maybe we could build a pipeline to the moon!
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"Right, beauty is sentimental and useless. Let's freaking blow up everything in the name of "utility".
Just because you can't measure and quantify the utility of something doesn't means it is useless. It means you lack the ability. It means your model of utility is not as perfect as you in your hubris believe it to be."
No. I would not blow up a few cubic metres of rock on the moon for no reason any more than I would build a statue for no reason. By this standard anyone who cuts down a tree for wood or digs in the ground for iron is being some kind of criminal. Also, there is no fundamental reason why everything must have utility, and something that cannot be percieved, is IRRELEVANT. That's "perceived", not "quantified"
Incidentally, the moon has been, and still is, bombarded by numerous meteors. And there also is no reason why a cataclysmic event such as an explosion must be fundamentally DESTRUCTIVE. The moon EXISTS AT ALL becuase a dwarf planet almost blew the Earth into bits some million years ago.
In this excellent article, "What (Really) Lies Beneath the War in Afghanistan", Eric Margolis accurately notes these facts:
1. "Taliban, (are) a militant religious, anti-Communist movement of Pashtun tribesmen"
2. "Taliban are the sons of the U.S.-backed mujahidin who defeated the Soviets in the 1980s"
3. "The Pashtun tribes want to end foreign occupation and drive out the Afghan Communists, who now dominate the U.S.-installed Kabul regime."
But today, the Pashtuns, the Taliban, and (surprisingly) the Russian people have something tellingly in common ---- they both previously overcame the Soviet EMPIRE, which acted as a monopoly of military power under the banner of 'communism'.
The Pashtun Taliban kicked the Soviet EMPIRE's ass in the late 1980s, the East German people broke down the Soviet EMPIRE's wall in 1989, and the Russian people finally defeated the Soviet EMPIRE's claim of a 'monopoly on power' in the name of 'communism' in 1991.
But today, the real 'monopoly on power' in the world is not the next-to-the-last Soviet Empire's claimed communism, but the real global 'monopoly on power' exercised by the last EMPIRE standing --- the disguised and guileful ruling-elite's corporate/financial EMPIRE, which controls ‘our’ country by hiding behind the facade of its two-party 'Vichy' sham of democracy --- and which is rightly called "Corporate Communism" by Dylan Ratigan, as he shouts out publicly on national MSNBC TV (if GE doesn't fire him).
Unfortunately, neither the Pashtun, Taliban, German people, Russian people or any other people will likely be able to revolt against this new and insidious form of global 'monopoly on power’ --- the EMPIRE of ‘Corporate Communism’.
This 21st century disguised EMPIRE is nominally headquartered in ‘our’ country (although it has satellite ruling-elites in countries such as the U.K., Israel, and others).
No, only the American people, with our slight remnants of political influence can take on this world-girding political-economic EMPIRE of “Corporate Communism”, which has already employed its financial and economic monopoly to weaken our political rights and take over our government by bribing, subverting, and hollowing-out our Constitutional rights of real democracy.
Just read this history of the fall of the next-to-the-last Empire, the Soviet ‘communist’ Empire, and see if it does not ring true about the disguised ruling-elite corporate/financial EMPIRE of “Corporate Communism” in our midst today:
“The Soviet Union's collapse into independent nations began early in 1985.[dubious – discuss] After years of Soviet military buildup at the expense of domestic development, economic growth was at a standstill. Failed attempts at reform, a stagnant economy, and war in Afghanistan led to a general feeling of discontent, especially[citation needed] in the Baltic republics and Eastern Europe. Greater political and social freedoms, instituted by the last Soviet leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, created an atmosphere of open criticism of the Moscow regime. The dramatic drop of the price of oil in 1985 and 1986, and consequent lack of foreign exchange reserves in following years to purchase grain profoundly influenced actions of the Soviet leadership.[1]
Several Soviet Socialist Republics began resisting central control, and increasing democratization led to a weakening of the central government. The USSR's trade gap progressively emptied the coffers of the union, leading to eventual bankruptcy. The Soviet Union finally collapsed in 1991 when Boris Yeltsin seized power in the aftermath of a failed coup that had attempted to topple reform-minded Gorbachev.”
Summary from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Soviet_Union_(1985%E2%80%931991)
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
amacd " in this excellent article"blah blah blah.The article is hogwash.The usual double talk failing to tell the truth and get to the point!THE REAL TRUTH IS---
HEROIN REVENUES =ONE TRILLION PLUS DOLLARS PER YEAR
DUCK CHENEY AND WAR PROFITEERS have become filthy rich and NOW the OBOMBA club.
THE MASSES STILL STRUGGLE TO LIVE ON $1.00 a day,most lose that battle!
THE HERE A WAR, THERE A WAR, EVERYWHERE A WAR WAR =BIG BUCKS
for whom? Anyone care to guess? The details of how the wars exist and perpetuate, is always the same excrement, different geographical location.
coups /blackmail/rigged diebolds/propaganda ,extortion,lies. Any exploitive means to control and dupe the masses is used.Torture is very effective because it scares most of the 'civilized world (used loosely) into inaction. Thus genocides, if and when reported,are covered as casually as Michelle's ridiculous bout with the Queen.meanwhile millions are starving or being massacred. The real terrorists are the government sychophants, who follow to the letter, their rich dude masters.You think.
Why is it that Mr Margolis, so clear eyed on many things associated with Afghanistan, continues to perpetuate the long discredited myth that the events of 9/11/01 were planned and perpetrated by 19 Muslim fanatics directed by bin Laden from a cave in afghanistan. Given that this myth has been used to justify (so far) two illegal wars and the deaths of well over one million people (and counting)Mr Margolis owes his readers some intellectual honesty in calling the 9/11 story for what it is: a myth used to justify expansion and control of oil and gas resources; contain China and Russia; keep control of the lucrative narcotics trade; and help out their friends in Israel.
mr.jamesoneil, are you sure you got mr.margolis's message? if i am not wrong and re-read the article several times, i never see mr.margolis defending the thesis that bin laden used the tora bora caves in afghanistan to launch 11.09. i myself - do not know if you or mr.margolis have been there - i was there in november 2001, as a reporter... and those famous "sophisticated" caves, provided with "high tech" were good enough ... maybe to hide a few rabbits or foxes... or maximum to hide a very few indivuals among terrible dust, with minimum of space and oxygen and never to store high tech communications and last generation weaponry.
propaganda, propaganda... which i do not understand some people, too many axiely, still try to keep on passing to the world... specially in america. but i do not think, if i am not wrong, that is mr.margolis's case!
As far as our government is concerned, they have the playbook, but more toys to make it so. Here are some quotes by the masters, right out of the book. Sound familiar?
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
And:
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
Joseph Goebbels, MiniProp for Hitler’s Third Reich
1897-1945
Then there is Goering:
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same for any country."
Herman Goering to Gustave Gilbert at Nuremberg, 18 April, 1946
See? It works!
"I wish Obama would just declare victory in Afghanistan, withdraw western forces, and hand over security to a multi-national stabilization force from Muslim nations."
You can't hand a country over to people from outside it, regardless of their religion. Why is this so difficult a concept for liberals to understand? Even Kucinich used to talk about getting the "U.N. in and the U.S. out" of Iraq. This is just stupidity.
Economic hegemony is why we are there. It's just another piece in the puzzle leading to economic world domination by European and American economic elites. If your dumb enough to fight for the elites, while the rest of America suffers, then history will condemn you.
The last news I heard about NASA causing explosions in the Moon just for greedy purposes is, I am afraid, the last drop of cruelty and ignorance I can take.
...
.Not only poets, or lovers worshippèd her (I am sure the moon is a she) but farmers, philosophers, children did. What kind of rapacious sub-species has taken over our dreams and is bringing the Pachamama (Mother Earth) to its knees and is now going for the Moon as the next victim?
OH< GOD, not this again. The causing of explosions on the moon is not "greedy", though it probably gives SOME benefit to SOME contractor. It's a damned GEOLOGICAL experiment.
Your talking like a comic book, no normal person destroys just for the destruction, and that has nothing to do with the wars on earth.. The wars are the darker side of human nature, geophysical experiments on the moon are absolutely harmless and do not affect it's sentimental but utterly useless beauty.
Right, beauty is sentimental and useless. Let's freaking blow up everything in the name of "utility".
Just because you can't measure and quantify the utility of something doesn't means it is useless. It means you lack the ability. It means your model of utility is not as perfect as you in your hubris believe it to be.
What is most troubling is that fact that all of these so-called mainstream, corporate "Newspeak" journalists must have an inkling that the "Official" story which the American people were spoon-fed on September eleventh, two thousand and one is suspect? Yet they continue going about their day as if everything were NORMAL. It's not!
These "journalists" (that's a joke) are being paid handsomely to continue to foment the disinformation, the mendacity which is ruining our once great country.
There are over seven-hundred "prominent" architects and engineers who believe the buildings were brought down by explosives. Why won't the media touch this story? They're not going to. Once they tug at the threads it would begin to unravel like a cheap suit. Sadly, the corporate media is too busy keeping the sheople preoccupied with their inane programing, such as Jon and Kate plus eight or David Letterman's affair.
So the illegal Middle East wars of aggression and hegemony continue. Yet more senseless death and destruction. It seems that "We the People" no longer have a say in this matter.
Meanwhile America crumbles from within. The question remains, have we already crossed the Rubicon?
One thing Mr. Margolis fails to mention is the drug trade in Afghanistan, which is in the billions of $.
Thank God for the lies. If the relatives of the soldiers who gave their lives in vain were to find out the truth it would be a disaster. The american people deserve no less.
Guam is infested with large brown snakes that climb power poles and short out big sections of the island. Mongooses were brought in to eradicate the snakes but there was a problem: mongoose hunt at night and snakes come out in the daytime.
Power poles on the island kept falling down during typhoons. Large, massive concrete and steel towers were installed but there was a problem: more motorists were being killed hitting them. The top speed limit on the island is 35 MPH.
I know this things do not have much to do with the article at hand but I submit them in the interest of quiet respite and ....
Peace
you may be correct but since guam is a military staging area and u.s. "protectorate," which has maintained a stable population for generations, many of the locals are very concerned about the huge planned influx of soldies!
you may be right but onthe other hand. guam, and american "protectorate" an military staging center, is about to face a massive influx of soldiers. since WWII guam has maintained a stable population, but many, many "guamites"? "guameseians"? are deeply concered--
but who asked 'em?
Then just bury the damn power lines.
Thank you, Rick! Actually. I see a connection here..........
The column tells us about the lies beneath the war in Afghanistan, but it doesn't tell us what lies beneath the war in Afghanistan, that is, why the U.S. is so hell-bent on having a war there. It's can't be oil, because the only involvement of oil there is in the possibility of building pipelines. Would these idiots really spend the money, manpower, and ill will of the war for a pipeline or two? Is it some larger strategic interest in controlling Pakistan and thus isolating China on her southern front (sort of like the British in their great game with Russia)? What's up with this idiocy in the face of such a heavy price? Is is like LBJ in Vietnam, not wanting to lose a war in his watch? Surely we can be men enough to lose a war in which we have no real stake. Can electoral politics in the U.S. be a sufficient condition for continuation of wars? Fear of losing some elections to the crazies?
america is still the largest manufacturer in the world - weapons...
"The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, and conducted mainly by U.S.-based Saudis to punish America for supporting Israel."
If that were true, then the Saudis are the most congenitally, incredibly, moronically stupid people in the history of mankind. Why? Because the attacks did not punish the people in the US that support Israel (i.e. congress; Why didn't they fly the planes into the capital building? )
The attacks HELPED Israel get MORE money. Any idiot could have seen that. The people working at the WTC towers weren't funding Israel, our government was/IS.
Try another excuse. That one won't wash.
Didn't mossad wire the 9/11 twin towers to detonate,so that Israel could make war on IRAQ and make lots of money!
MAYBE HELP PAY FOR THEIR 300 NUKES and white phosporous bombs they are so fond of.
Elites use crises like 9/11 like they use capitalist marketing strategies to push/shove the people to give up more of their meager energies to the elite establishment. Suggestion: Push back, people, HARD.
Sorry, iit washes if you knew that the CIA was responsible for giving the visas to the terrorists from Saudi Arabia...It washes if you know that the Saudi Royal Family was making direct payments to Saudi Terrorists in San Diego. (Philip Shenon, The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Commission)....
What does not wash is the "Plan for a New American Century" and the need for a "Pearl Harbor Type Attack" because the Taliban had decided to give the "Oil Pipeline Contract" to Bridas Oil of Argentina instead of UNOCAL.....The Three Countries that should have been attacked for the 9/11 attacks were: The United States, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia......even the $100,000 that was given to the ISI of Pakistan and passed on to Mohammed Atta came from the Department of Defense. (Again, Philip Shenon, "The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Commission")
Until there is an "Independent Investigation of the attacks of 9/11", there will be no peace and the same men who have earned TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS will force Obama to continue the murder of innocent, unarmed civilians and American Soldiers will continue to die for "American Capitalism" is always "Cost Effective" when it comes to profits and earnings......Brown People don't count to the "Elite" and Low Income Soldiers are expendable..........
There was NO investigation of the murder of almost 3,000 people and evidence was destroyed or lost by the very agency that should have been investigating. Who was the FBI working for and why was that agency more concerned about hiding the evidence and editing out evidence?
If we follow the billions, it went to... ?
Military private corporate contractors ... $$$ lucrative
Military suppliers ... How much of our GDP?
If we follow the actions...
Military operations in invading another country-- a practice run? Mastering techniques in creating chaos, capturing/torturing resistance opposition, establishing PERMANENT bases
Stepping stone to CONTROL of the entire Middle East region?
Using drug money to help pay for the excursion, also using drugs to erode society/middle class? Also helps vast US crime/prison industry and big pharma
Natural gas pipelines? Through the Swat Valley (Pakistan), where the Taliban are 'most troublesome?'
A practice run for eventually doing all this in the "homeland?" hence the Patriot Act. etc.
All for global dominion for global elites ?
Just musing...
Good,intelligent post, Herbert.
This article is correct.
Sioux Rose, thank you for putting so nicely what I would like to express but can't because English is not my native language. I absolutely share your thoughts and live by them and can't understand why most are so receptive to lies when it's really crystal clear.
The last news I heard about NASA causing explosions in the Moon just for greedy purposes is, I am afraid, the last drop of cruelty and ignorance I can take. Instead, newsmongers showed a bright smile of satisfaction for the deed. Through its long history, mankind have looked at the Sun and the Moon with marvel and love. Not only poets, or lovers worshippèd her (I am sure the moon is a she) but farmers, philosophers, children did. What kind of rapacious sub-species has taken over our dreams and is bringing the Pachamama (Mother Earth) to its knees and is now going for the Moon as the next victim?
Sioux Rose
METCHART: Thank you for the kind words.
I gave up TV almost 3 years ago and heard something about blasts on the moon, but hoped I was only hearing a rumor. I remember that Indigenous persons felt that taking rocks back from the moon (during the original landing and moon walk) was a sacrilegious thing to do. If that is so, imagine the level of dischordant energy that would result from blasting weapons there!
It's a powerful metaphor, that having so badly damaged THIS planet, those identified with "fire power" would see fit to contaminate the moon, too.
Years ago I read (I think it was in the Seth material, but I am not sure) that higher, more intelligent forms of life were monitoring our planet, that it was sort of quarantined due to its intense forms of violence. What I read was that if human beings tried to take their nuclear weapons OFF the earth and begin to use them in space, it would call for "aliens" to thwart such moves and measures.
I don't know about you, but right about now, I'd welcome ALIEN intervention. IF there is any higher form of intelligent life, spirit-based or otherwise, overseeing the progress or retardation of our species, I'd be very glad to welcome some HELP from their end, and now would be none too soon! The brilliantly designed conduits put in place to ensure that the exact species of government (aligned with business = fascism) abuse NOW taking place never could ensue, have been disabled or short-circuited. Like the Sting song, I'm "sending out an S.O.S, sending out an S.O.S."
Maybe some of those people at the "spiritual warrior" sweat lodge managed to get themselves "beamed up" ahead of schedule. Perhaps they are convening a conference in a non-corporeal dimension on behalf of those of us still SWEATING it down here?
Brings to mind the 'Out of the Silent Planet' series by C.S. Lewis, which speaks of our inability to understand the wonder of our surroundings...it is a series worth revisiting for me too...'Perelandra'..the ideal of what earth COULD be like, and 'That Hideous Strength', when nature finally has to take over again, from man's disasterous domination. WE have to keep writing and believing that maybe mankind will evolve(use our thinking brain) beyond the situations we find ourselves in today...the illusion of separateness, when in truth we are scattered parts of the same picture, just need to be puzzled together again to regain harmony in the universe. It's beyond any ONES capabilities, we're all in this together. And WAR does not have a place in sane and sustainable world...period...
Hey there Ms. Rose!
Indeed. Think of it. The moon. The feminine; light of the night. Gets blasted. For ????? Water. The astrologically lunar element, of course.
Blasphemous! But how deeply symbolic of where we are right now....It is all playing out. But we must keep in mind that changes are occurring at so many levels in our multiverse.
Such a major cycle is ending/beginning. Larger than i believe we have in any of our histories as we think of them.
And it is great to see you mention 'Seth' here. Check out "The Nature of the Individual and Mass Events". It has more meaning now than ever!
There is no sane or moral leadership in Washington, D.C.....
President Obama with the ring in his nose; will be led around by the elitist Military Commanders, and GOP power-brokers. Their Stars and profits increase in direct proportion to the thousands of dead U.S. soldiers shipped home.
This commitment to endless foreign wars,,,,SUCKS
/
The only path to peace in Afghanistan and the entire Middle East lies through Israel.
Obey UNSC-242 or rescind UNGA-181.
"re-acquiring terrorist training camps."
Because Terror Instructors find it so difficult to secure the right location to set up some monkey bars, a few tires and a few targets...
So that's one line of super-bullshit The People gulp down without question.
The other is: the mightiest military in forever has been unable to raise and train an Afghan Military in 8 F@#KING YEARS, in spite of the fact that every recruit has been living in a war zone his whole f@#king life.
Our boot camp is, what - six weeks?
If I was in the 'powers that be' club, I'd take a look at my American audience and decide that they're so stupid and pacified, they'll buy any lie to avoid the possibility of facing reality and actually having to do something about it.
Hey - 'Couples Retreat' did $35 million. That's how we prefer our reality...
Does anyone out there expect a Columnist with a major urban daily to acknowledge the obvious regarding the 9/11 attacks?
9/11 was planned right here in the USa by Mr. Cheney and carried out with plently of cooperation from the then JCS chairman Richard Meyers.
Whatever happened to good old anti-war rallies?
Big rallies are happening all over the country this weekend - October 17 and surrounding dates. We're picketing and rallying against Obama in SF on Oct 15, too. Check the net for actions near you and get involved!
you need a fukkin' permit now.
please, sir, may I protest, sir?
What's the cost of a protest permit these days?
http://www.afghanistanpetroleum.com/calendar.php
http://mom.gov.af/index.php?page_id=87
This is a war of occupation for the theft of $500B in Afghan natural resources, right in plain view, but NOT ONE WORD from the media or national leaders. Go ahead, ... try to find one.
Karzai will get his second term, the fix is in at State.
Karzai will get his GZ Surge3, the fix is in at Defense.
Karzai will then sign away the Afghan people's birthright on "February 5, 2010 at the latest". It is written in the stars!
Our children will piss on our graves.
It would have cost less just to pay for the resources than to go to war for them.
With the war there are all the other ancillary profits.
I don't know or care where the attacks at WTC were planned, nor by whom.
All I know is that the buildings there, all 3, were brought down by explosive demolition.
All I know is that the Official Conspiracy Theory is a damn lie.
Well said Eric, keep up the good work.
The rest of the world knows that something is terribly wrong with the 9/11 comminsion report. And here , in America, private individuals and organizations are now gaining more credibility for research and reporting on the demolition style colapse of the Towers and building 7.
There is great concern about what actually happend 9/11 and the great effort by the Bush/Chenny Regime to discredit,slander and destroy anyone who questions there official version of the events that dark day.
For now, the American people might understand that Mr. Margolis is trying to build a strong case for illeagal occupation on the world stage by forcing major media to debunk his claims.
We need to get out of Afghanistan, and let the Taliban have thier country back, before the whole musilm world joins in to hurt America.
Do these arrogant war/fear mongers think we can fight the whole muslim world.
Teach your children to know the difference of joining the military to protect America or fight battles for bankers and oil companys.
If there are no volunteer troops, they will have to reinstate the draft, if they can , then we will see who goes to fight for two faced capitalists. They can send thier own kids first.
Except that it's not "the Taliban's country".
The Taliban are the reactionary fundamentalist proxy for Pakistan government interference in Afghanistan, where Pashtun is the majority, but only by 65%.
The Taliban did not exist until Pakistani ISI created them in the NWFP/FATA.
If you want to argue for North-South division of Afghanistan into Tajik North
and Pastu South, with the Pashtu South controlled from Islamabad, go ahead.
But don't clamor for the 35% of non-Pashtu's and primarily 'secular' Islam
national Afghan population to be submerged under a Reign of Fundamentalism,
as though the fundamentalists are a national insurgency.
That's the tragic policy flaw of this occupation by the 'chess players' in the Pentagon and State. We are, in effect, legitimizing fundamentalist interference
in Afghanistan, by making it over into a 'loyalist' national Afghan insurgency.
Bin Laden wins.
"Except that it's not "the Taliban's country". –(ChipH)
–Identifying or demarcating the sectors of the Afghani populace who are fighting against American imperialism seems to me a moot point and mainly a 'technical' one only of interest to the specialist.
That it is not the "Taliban's country" is besides the point.
It has the feel of a 'false distinction' when you say that the sources of resistance, (irrespective of whom is doing the fighting) does not constitute an insurgency of the general population against American imperialism. Maybe you are correct. I don't know. Maybe I have misread you here.
Nationalist struggles are always exceedingly complex. The sources of the resistance must be 'general' enough to attain the seeming success they are having.
Irregardless if the imperialist invasion and occupation of Afghanistan is "legitimizing fundamentalist interference," and channeling disparate sectors of the populace into a legitimate nationalist struggle, that can only be a good thing as I see it.
Fundamentalist or secular, the point is to drive out and/or destroy Western/American fascism. The pieces, (and they will be fractures) will have to be sorted out later, as they always are by the vagaries of history. –(Jill Bains)
The hurried cleanup of the 9/11 debris was the clear indicator of US elites' agenda not to pursue justice through the rule of law, but to pursue vengeance and imperialism, beyond the law. USans should have smelled this rotten fish, but instead they elected elite chimps again and again.
elite chimps were never 'elected' not even once.
Supremes ratified a fraudulent election;
see "murder,spies and voting lies" documentary
by 'bradblog' friedman on clint curtis.
After election fraud, chimps needed something BIG to
make them WARTIME presidents to enhance their POWER
and make second term SEEM like "wartime presidents
are always reelected". As you noticed from jan 2000 to
december 2008, the CRISES kept coming...alll designed
to make retrospective investigation less and less likely.
"Western occupation forces will be doomed if the Afghan resistance ever gets modern anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles." –(Eric Margolis)
–That cannot come too soon. Nothing like a truly fair fight. Nor is there anything like 'poetic justice.'
I can think of nothing that would advance the cause of cosmic justice more than to see the malefic Predator drones incinerated in the skies on the Fourth of July, to the cheers of a jubilant world.
Or to see the American torture prison Bagram Air Force base smoldering in ashes.
That beneficent moment would resemble nothing so much as the sight of the fascist U.S. helicopters absconding the rooftops in Saigon, Vietnam as the liberating NVA approached in the near distance.
"The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, and conducted mainly by U.S.-based Saudis to punish America for supporting Israel." –(Eric Margolis)
–Whether this is true or not– and if it was not indeed an 'inside' job– the role of Israel as the linchpin around which all issues of world peace revolve, cannot be overstated.
Israel remains the tumescent cancer of unrepentant state terror; it must be brought to heel before any serious talk of 'world peace' may legitimately commence.
Of course, this is not to forget Israel's 'mirrored' evil twin, the United States of America.
–(Jill Bains)
Sioux Rose
ERIC MARGOLIS like so many columnists mistakes the pretext for war/aggression/occupation (that which is necessary to "market it" to the American public) with its true intention (resource acquisition). It must make for many hours of chess game-style strategy, an intellectual exercise that enjoyably bounces around theories on how effective the U.S. military is in its "mission" to wipe out the Taliban or the enemies du jour. When someone is privileged with a pulpit, and only bats around what the permissible dialog allows, leaving the true cause factors in the dark, I lose respect for them as writer, teacher, or columnist. His is art, or artifice, without substance.
Yes, the 'allowable dialogue' is very carefully hectored and hedged.
http://www.afghanistanpetroleum.com/calendar.php
Have you EVER heard a SINGLE WORD from ANY media or ANY world leader about the ~$500B worth of world-class Afghan natural resources right now being auctioned off and signed away on "February 5, 2010 at the latest"?
Then what is all the BILLIONS of words and TV sound bites for, but a SMOKE SCREEN?
There's zero incentive for Afghanis to host foreign resource profiteers. Afghanis don't want/need foreign warez so they don't need foreign munny to exchange for them. Afghanis don't want/need large volumes of fossil energy so they don't need foreign extraction services. For domestic fossil production (including pipeline through-routing) Afghanis should rely on their native industrial development, thereby creating an incentive for themselves to develop industrially. No hurry. It could take 100 years and the world would be much better off, having mitigated carbon emissions in the meantime, and delaying production for the benefit of future generations. Plenty of people are looking at all the angles and supporting something very different than the petro-elites have in mind.
"ERIC MARGOLIS like so many columnists mistakes the pretext for war/aggression/occupation (that which is necessary to "market it" to the American public) with its true intention (resource acquisition)." –(Sioux Rose)
–Yes. A necessary point that underscores the inimical connection–in fact the congruent overlap– between the dictates of American capitalism (Oil sector) and rampant militarism.
But the darker thought– beyond the resource acquisition motivation for military expansionism– is that war is simply an end itself and is self perpetuating irrespective of material motive.
It is an American psychopathology, an 'event horizon' of a demiurge that has become intractable.
–(Jill Bains)
Sioux Rose
Jill: Thank you for the acknowledgement. You are new to this forum. I have pontificated LONG and HARD on the idea that the archetypal persona of Mars, known best in modern times as the military-state and/or the dominator-society is fueled by the human ego when it identifies most formidably with its separation from the whole. This model is the dis-ease which has, in my view, endeavored to destroy life and all things sacred in the name of saving them, or providing "protection" to those that become its adherents.
All around me I make note of what happens when this uber: masculine idea of force first takes over, that it quite literally unsettles the very equations of life. You, as a scientist (medical doctor) may appreciate the poetic truth that every living cell generates from a UNION between the Yin (mother) and the Yang (father). That DNA is writ in doubled helixes to express the embrace of the great He for She.
Tearing at this fiber, deconstructing the value of, and contribution of the (Divine) feminine has led societies to an over-identification with the action-principle, along with its penchant for aggression, and acts that serve the self.
The TRUE purpose for Mars, as taken from the astrological lexicon, is to PROTECT the weak. Today, Mars is the great predation, and casts its fiery eye upon each next civilization that it might conquer so that to the victor might go the spoils. Naomi Klein describes its virulent parallel in the economic model that sees in the world, all coveted assets that nothing so trite as law, international treaties, or respect for human lives can stand in the way of acquiring by hook, crook, or most trusted, VIOLENCE.
Just as the I ching teaches so brilliantly, on a treatise that explained the nature of evil several millennia ago, evil can never be fought with direct force. The only way to overcome it is to invest in OTHER, the path evil would not take. To me, this signifies investing in the counterpart to Mars, which is Venus; and she glorifies all things of beauty, love, romance, pleasure, and those predilections that would lead to a CARING (or care-based) society, as opposed to what we now confront in all aspects of our lives, the CARE-less society.
Whatever problem we seek to analyze, the premise of caring and caring-less (which is to say not at all) stares back at us. Every time a person acts with love, decency, concern for other; every moment an individual invests in that which will create beauty, edify the senses, nourish another... the vast Venus deficit receives what Carlos Casteneda's teacher Don Juan described as a "payment to the spirit of humankind." THAT is the remedy for what ails us... although many in this forum, can cite the chess moves of history with profound wisdom and skilled detail. HIS-story alone tells the tale through the prism taken by Mars, and that is why too often it is little more than an endless resuscitation of wars!
Through the prism I use in formulating my analyses, it all goes back to Venus and Mars. Our planet, this living orbiting school house, is situated between the orbs of these two for a Divine purpose. EVERYthing was designed as a love song, a mating dance... and when societies allot too much of their passion, purpose and resources to the god of war, the sacred strands of life's embrace of itself no longer cohere. The center cannot hold. MARS alone cannot make life. Where Venus leaves behind a legacy of fine art, gorgeous architecture, soul-lifting music, fabulous furniture, amazing fashion... Mars' legacy is depleted uranium, limbless children, widowed women, and dead ecosystems.
Choose ye which Master ye shall serve. (This is not directed at anyone in particular, rather it is the staple of Universal law.)
I recall the Taliban offering to hand over Bin Ladin if the Americans provided proof of his complicity - proof which would hold up in court, not just some monkey's say-so.
This proof was never presented and the Taliban's offer was painted as insincere.
If such proof does exist I can only suppose that revealing it would jeapordize America's Notional Security.
"This proof was never presented and the Taliban's offer was painted as insincere." –(vdb)
–Yes. One does not have to be a conspiracy 'kook' to credibly assume that such "proof" does not exist and for the very reasons you have stated.
If such 'proof' was ever forthcoming one could be assured in advance that it would not be ineluctable.
–(Jill Bains)
as has been pointed out elsewhere, even the FBI admits it has no such proof.
Once upon a time in a deep dark cave a smart guy carried fire in from a lightning strike, darkness was no longer a fear. A second smart person used a piece of a tree such as a log to roll stuff on, moving heavy objects was no longer a problem. Then another brilliant one used sharp stones as tools and weapons, another fear almost wiped out. A few developed language and speech. Yet, one of the last not so smart but rather lazy saw that his job as protector/warrior might no longer be needed so he invented " The Lie ". It went something like, " How can you not be afraid of what you cannot see ? "
The Cave Man invented the Bogey Man. The protector/warrior/police then invented the politician. Fast forward to modern times and you see that for the rich to be richer aka capitalists they need to have a Bogey Man. Once we have a truly united one gov world we will have a Bogey Man from Space. Oh wait we got that now, he wears green.
Bill Brown Pine City, MN
Sioux Rose
BILL: Interesting, creative post. Although I think more than fear animates societal hierarchies, there's no question that fear works as powerful incentive to get persons to act against their own best interests. And as you related, it's a proven time-tested "formula." Where is the courage in lazy lives lived through conveniences? If you've ever seen the wonderful film, "Time Bandits" (one of Terry Gilliam's gems) it begins with a precocious child unexpectedly watching as a fantasy come to life. However, downstairs are his thoroughly programmed parents, hypnotized by the "telly" relating the latest appliances and make-life-easy apparatus of note! It's a great parody on our times! Has material wealth slayed the old dragons? What would the MIC do if there was no taliban to rail against?
CHINA!
It's all, including 9/11, about manufacturing a war with China. But don't take my word for it. Read "The Grand Chessboard". The goal since 9/11 (actually 1991) is to surround China.
and let's not forget...
"Further, the process of [military] transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" - September 2000
and...
The US military is not going to run it's tanks and planes on solar power or batteries now are they? The oil grab is to perpetuate the military monster.
Deliberately destroying the dollar so China will call in our loans. Just like the Japanese oil blockade which caused Pearl Harbor in 1941.
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=10134
Deliberately destroy the ice-caps to make a cheaper shipping lane to America's new owner (China Inc.) after we lose the war. Make more money!
China. China. China! War with China is a wonderful opportunity! And afterward bring on the "Amero" in the new feudalist China Inc. colony, America.
Need more proof it's all about China?
10/9/09
"The United States is planning an enormous $15 billion military buildup on the Pacific island of Guam. The project would turn the thirty-mile-long island into a major hub for US military operations in the Pacific in what has been described as the largest military buildup in recent history."
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/9/guam_residents_organize_against_us_plans
"They make the weather and then they stand in the rain and say, shit! it's raining." -the movie Cold Mountain
AMERICA IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE A STANDING ARMY.
AMERICA IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GUERILLA ARMY.
WHY?
1) BECAUSE GUERILLA ARMIES DON'T LOSE.
2) STANDING ARMIES NEED WARS.
"War with China is a wonderful opportunity!"
Do yo mean like with the Cold War with the Soviet Union? It most certainly benefited the war profiteers, warmongers, authoritarians, rightwingers, in general. The more people who could be scared into supporting the Cold War the more energy that could be drained away from peace, universal equity/justice, etc. Worst still, many who continued to embrace these ideals were convinced that the Cold War was necessary to secure them. Today, US elite media could easily convince the great majority of USans that a new Cold War against China/Russia will accomplish the same thing. US elites are planning to put the War on Terrier to rest because it's becoming stale, in that the terriers are obviously not the barriers between USans and their new goals. Such a new barrier must be created to hedge. China is it, especially when the production of cheap warez moves out of China and into Africa. USans will be ready for Cold War with China and escalation of the war economy from 10% of the total economy to 20% (3 trillion $/yr).
on at least ONE count -- you are correct.
that CHINA is the "ulterior" target OF the US Warmakers - needing WAR to justify their own existence of course -
has really been around for DECADES and in fact - just before 9/11 "focused" america on the "middle east and central asia" AGAIN - having a "great cause" to follow --
since CLINTON CHINA was overtly the one country that was being "painted" as the "THREAT".
that the events have "blurred" THAT focus -- mean only that what has been made to "simmer" NEVER really disappeared from US policy.
just as they are "beating war drums" against iran ...
they are also and have always been beating war drums against china...and russia and ....whatever else country the US war manufacturers latch onto.
the problem for the USA
SHOULD it provoke China - and the chinese will CERTAINLY recognize it if it is "getting out of hand" - the USA basically
will have been waging war and provoking ALL of ASIA or at least "EAST asia" which is, for all effective purposes , is now within China's orbit - as it should be - and has been for thousands of years - REGARDLESS of western , and US dominated , imperialism that -
in the TOTAL scheme of things in human history and civilizations
is a MERE BLOT in time.
considering that India - an erstwhile "ally" of the USA (at least since the clinton years and when the USSR ceased to exist) - is a great populous and huge potential power in itself , BUT will NOT dare to provoke China with whom India's historic rivalry AND ties (cultural and religious, despite the many quarrels) are long ...also means that in the long run...
India - surrounded ALSO by rival Pakistan that can also make life very difficult for India -
would conceivably PREFER to NOT be seen as a US "lackey"
IF india is to take its place IN Asia as a RIVAL or "co-equal" to China.
other asian nations simply would not take to that..and india - can NOT afford to be the "odd man" out in ITS historic , natural, geographical and cultural region.
WHY would India - regardless of ideology or party in a given moment - wish to be perceived by the rest of asia and its own population as
"having rid of BRITISH imperialism -- BECOMES the USA's poodle in asia?"
India, being a proud nation and culture will NOT want to be compared unfavorably to CHINA as SUCH a country :
"THE USA's LACKEY" -- among HER own neighbors.
which brings one to the point:
SHOULD THE USA try to "isolate" china -- it can't - it is far too late for that.
Should the USA TRY to provoke something somewhere to "bait" china into a shooting war
it is the USA which will lose. ..and this has nothing to do with how many "NUCLEAR warheads" the USA has.
it is the USA that has TOO MANY "acupuncture points" that china can press with very little effort that can conceivably bring the USA to its knees.
as for the ASEAN nations - what are THEY going to get from supporting or allying with the USA ONCE a real shooting war ensues -- or even "blockades" or naval buildups by the USA in its "claimed" Pacific Lake which it certainlY ISN'T? and EVERY asian on earth knows that?.
how are ASEAN nations (10 of them, philippines, indonesia, hongkong, taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia....etc...) going to answer for their OWN tightening relationships as ASEAN WITH the "big three" consisting of China, South Korea and Japan - in an already underway plan to firm up the "EAST ASIA REGION" --
PRINCIPALLY because of their COMMON experience, whether as allies or not, of US and western colonialism and its RESULTING devastations of their economies, ONCE of which greatest proofs was the CHINA's OWN isolationism BECAUSE of Western meddling?
now that their region is "waking up" - while naturally not necessarily having "solved" every problem - BUT movign towards recognizing their NATURAL coordinations as cultures and economies -- which were ALREADY in effect LONG before the westerners came -
WHY should they - if it comes to making a CHOICE - ally themselves WITH the USA in a shooting war or "isolation" or "sanctions" and whatever else "economic, political and military pressures" the USA tries on China?
UNTIL the DAY - maybe when the moon melts - that the USA finally ADMITS and ACCEPTS that it CAN NOT be the world's hegemon - nor even in any region --
the Asian economies - by their respective , individual struggles AGAINST western imperialisms and colonizations - swallowing the "washington consensus" that led to the economic disasters which should NEVER have happened, those experiences and memories are far to long and deep
and they will not have forgotten - that in the LONG view - -THEIR common future and whatever prosperity they ACCOMPLISH TOGETHER - as they can not AVOID IT --
rests with CHINA as the "middle kingdom" - even if they will ensure that "reality" DICTATES to china that there are OTHER neighbor interests china has to take into account equal to ITS development and power IF CHina is to REGAIN its RIGHTFUL place as the greatest nation in asia.
that is just fact: historical and future and it can't be avoided by mere RIGHTS of the realities and the asians are - if ANYTHING - a collection of cultures that , despite their NATIONAL prides and concerns - WILL acknowledge as a NATURAL function of their own regional cohesion.
as the old saying goes:
"AS CHINA GOES -- so does the rest of asia".
and there is NOTHING the USA can do to change that in the long run. if it attempts to insist "as THE USA GOES -- asia goes"
it WILL be rejected.
just as Vietnam did- just as the philippines TRIED but failed and HERE is its chance to integrate itself to its "home region" - and most spectacularly of all - for good or ill --
just as CHINA did.
let us put it this way:
china was already weakened in the 19th century by the time the europeans and americans "raped" her - it took china a while - through nationalist quarrels, communism, the "cultural revolution", the brutalities, etc. etc. etc....it is STILL continuing to refine its "present" to guide itself to its future as well as the rest of asia --
BUT China is NOT the world's OLDEST CONTINUING CIVILIZATION for insignificant reasons that a mere 300 year old "wanna be global empire" USA thinks it can "direct" to behave as the USA wishes.
or - as an old saying from INDIA went , answering a British looking down upon "backward" india:
"WE WERE HERE - long before you were even TRIBES in the west....we shall still be HERE , long after your empires are no more".
people should NEVER forget the power of "nationalism" especially in these modern times of wars and wars of resources.
because if the AFGHANIS would NOT permit Alexander the great , or the other greeks or the british or the russians and now the americans to "direct" their affairs - considering that they are a collection of different , highly fractious tribes ....
HOW MUCH MORE a great nation of such ANCIENTRY that is so proud of its place in human history - some even say - to the point of being "xenophobic" -
whose existence is at least 30 centuries old - compared to a MISHMASH of so-called "united states" that can't even hold ITSELF together after a mere 300 years of being "discovered" ?
this is like comparing LUKE SKYWALKER with YODA!!
IF there were a "shooting war" between the USA and CHINA -
are AMERICANS - all 300 million of them WILLING to confront the possibility of their own cities and major centers of civilization that holds the "united states" together and HIGHLY dependent on their modernity that can be destroyed in a few days -
against ONE BILLION , nearly 400 MILLION chinese who will NOT allow their own nation to cease to exist from the threats or battles with 300 million people ?
as some chinese generals recently had said:
"generations ago -- we allowed ourselves to become so weak that we were conquered (japan, western imperialists, etc.)...
"we shall never again allow anyone to defeat us so easily".
and THAT'S considering the "worst scenario".
if any country does or SHOULD NOT wish for a shooting war -- it is not china - it is the USA.
if it can't even hold on to BAGHDAD --
how does the Magnificent Grand Army of the USA imagine to try and conquer and control CHINA?
it would be LAUGHABLE!
I agree. At different times the English were considering learning French or Spanish. Most of us will just try to learn Mandarin Chinese, I suppose.
Interesting. China only because they challenge our economic dominance. Without controlling the energy supply our last dominance -- military-- is kaput.
But too late. We handed over the keys when we offshored our industrial base and hocked ourselves over to them in the name of short-term profit.
Dumb dumb dumb. But it happened.
Sioux Rose
GHOST: There are a number of foes the US military can't vanquish, and one is the weather. I think Global warming, a/k/a Gaia may have other plans for Guam.
--"Western occupation forces will be doomed if the Afghan resistance ever gets modern anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles."
To characterize the Taliban as Afghan Resistance is incorrect and Margolis knows this, but spin works. The Taliban (Margolis' old friends) are a virulent band of thugs, using religion as a convenient mask to oppress all Afghans. Only an old Reaganite can sympathize with these dickwads.
--"Washington's incredibly ham-handed efforts to use $7.5 billion US to bribe Pakistan's feeble, corrupt government and army, take control of military promotions, and get a grip on Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, have Pakistan's soldiers on the verge of revolt."
Oh brother ... this has been an extremely useful trick these last 60 years. Decades of bribing the Pakistani Military and especially during Reagans times as Margolis is well aware since he was embedded with them, has yielded a lot of ripe fruit for the U.S. For all their protestations, the Pakistani Military accepted the bribe once again. They need to make the necessary noises to quell genuine revulsion.
Margolis ofcourse never had such concern for Pakistani democracy in the past. In fact this old Reaganite could not get enough of the Pakistani Military's endless capacity to create trouble in South Asia. His heroes were the same rag-tag bunch of bearded mullahs who are bringing such terror to South Asia at large.
"The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, and conducted mainly by U.S.-based Saudis to punish America for supporting Israel."
Sure would like to know Eric Margolis' evidence for the above statement.
The evidence seems to point in a different direction, namely, right to the "Homeland" of the U.S. of A. with assistance by Israel's expert demolition experts.
Quite a few rich folks made money on 9-11 right here, down home.
An exception was made for the Bin Laden family and other Saudis to leave the country lickety-split by plane when all flights had been grounded and banned. Go figure.
/cm
normally i can go along with eric's analysis due to the fact that the spent time on the ground with the boys in afghanistan back in the day, including obl
but here we have a flawed case being made for the end of the non-war in afghanistan - which has the effect of supporting the whole fiasco as a situation that has gone out of control. eric points out some awkward truths about the fiction of this non-war but he doesn't even talk about the gas and oil of the region, as if it isn't the real reason we are in that place to begin with
the great game is about the gas and oil (and american reluctance to pay retail for them)
folks don't appreciate the importance of oil beyond the obvious use as gasoline to run their cars and trucks. oil runs everything
from plastics to fertilizers to almost every product in your house, office and everyplace in between
the history of imperial presence in this region goes back a long way but the oil game has been in play since the latter 1800's
it was the british who were the imperial warriors at that time and they were the ones who first saw the potential in the region. remember that at this time the us was flush with its own supplies of oil - we were the number one producers of it, it was the bedrock of the standard oil rockefeller dynasty
the brits recognized even then - from the front porch of their fading empire that oil was king maker and the ones who owned it or controlled it was - by default - the king
there were four solitudes in europe at that time - the brits, the germans, the austrio-hungarians and the russians
when the kasier and co decided to build a rail line to connect germany to the oil in iraq - ww1 was set in motion. the brits recognized the importance of denying access to their enemies - just as we are doing today to keep the russains and more importantly the chinese from gaining access to the gas and oil. what's old again is new again. in french you would say: plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
the germans had established right of way for all the territory it needed to complete their railroad with the exception of one small country - serbia
it is well known that the assassination of an austrian duke - heir to the austrio-hungarian empire assassinated in sarjevo was the starting point of the great war as it was called, ironically also termed the war to end all wars
that was the first domino that fell cascading into ww1
it was about a railroad being used to transport oil
here we are today playing the same game - this time not with the fading british empire but with the debt ridden and increasingly desperate american imperium
to lose control of this region would be a disaster for the imperial us
first off, we have no money to pay retail for the stuff and that would be economically disastrous for us
secondly, both the russians and the chinese have the cash to pay for it and with it they would grow their economies and thereby transplant themselves as the world's major economic entities
thirdly, selling all this oil retail would make a lot of folks in the mid-east rich and that would help them to truly throw out the american invaders for once and for all
our economy would collapse into oblivion and those of our enemies would flourish
the collapse in our economy would mean that we could no longer support our bloated military and we would have to close our bases and come home - that would lead to the further inescapable collapse of the economy
then our influence would fade and freedom and democracy would break out all around this world - people would be free of this yoke of domination and would aspire for a better life for themselves and their families
why we might even see a reorganization of the world into a caring and balanced and sustainable planet
THIS is what we cannot allow to happen
so we will kill them all as long as we can - we have no other option
having de-industrialized our country we have to use brute force to make the folks of the third world continue to do our slave labor and allow the rape of their countries for american corporate profits
like i said we have no other options
it is the 8 hundred pound elephant in the room and it is disappointing for eric to miss the boat on that one
also eric going on about 9/11 as if it wasn't an inside job is mind numbing
if he believes that he is a fool and he ought to know better - knowing what he knows about the imperium
he has reduced his analysis to dribble and has called his "knowledge" of the situation into question
hey eric: wake up and smell the coffee bro
There Will Be Blood!! (Can I have some of your milkshake?!)
"so we will kill them all as long as we can - we have no other option." –(lebeau)
–Yes. This is dystopian enough to sound like the truth– which it is.
And for America, as you presciently state "...we have no other options."
Grimly, it is even impossible for America to even imagine other options, much less 'retool' to accommodate them.
Darkness visible, into those primeval forests with more indians to kill.
Those dice have already been rolled. Yet they keep rolling...
For the rest of the world, they must come to understand that America, as it is, is no longer a permissible option either.
–(Jill Bains)
Sioux Rose
JILL: Borrowing from the film title, "What Dreams May Come," makes one wonder, "What Box Cutters (or a similar ingenious derivative) May Come"?
I totally agree that it is about oil and gas, and I can agree with your analysis for IRAQ, but Afghanistan is about the PIPE LINE, from the Russian 'stans'. The area of Afghanistan itself does not show to be that rich in Oil, but is essential for the shortest pipeline.
Eventually I believe that we will have to capitulate, PAY the talliban for permission to pass through the territories and thereafter pay a yearly 'fee' for them to 'patrol and protect' the pipeline. We will also have to agree to allow the poppy growing to continue along with the gem mining.
Short of total 'glassification' of the area, we can not expect to achieve a military victory. First because of the terrain, and second because we're too arrogant as a nation and fail to learn about a people's culture before engaging them. As Americans we cannot understand how a person would willingly sacrifice his life, the lives of his family for an ideal, for honor. We are used to instant gratification and can't understand how a child will take up the father's fight and carry on a vendeta based not only on family pride, but upon religious "justice". When we send in diplomats that threaten to 'bomb them into the stone ages', hell, there not far removed from that right now, so that's not such a threat.
just an opinion, but we REALLY need to talk first....
nobody: afghanistan is the pipeline route - you are correct but i consider the whole area to be one psyop - one big rip off
as for paying the taliban - we tried to do that prior to 9/11 - the taliban was in washington in full tribal garb negotiating with rumsfeld and cheney
the proposed pipeline was to transverse 23 tribal areas and the taliban were supposed to bring thee tribes in line and to protect the pipeline when it was completed
instead though they made a deal with an argentinian company - and then they became "terrorists"
then the 9/11 psyop was run and the rest, as they say, is history
Great post. 5 stars.
Agreed. He's got the big picture and well-said.
Check this out for a very good description and maps of what is going on: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5792
In a nutshell: we need to get "our" Caspian Sea oil to friendly ports so we can ship it all home to promote and maintain our "freedom" and "way of life".
In Afghanistan, currently only The Taliban stands in our way for the TAPI pipeline that would run from "our" Caspian Sea oil near Turkmenistan, which would carry thru southern Afghanistan to friendly ports in India. UNOCAL, which originally planned this route more than a decade ago, plainly said in public that the only thing standing between the us and the pipeline was the Taliban, and that they needed to be removed for stability.
Similarly, the Trans-Caspian pipeline is necessary to get the oil around Iran over thru our uber-ally Turkey (Google "Sibel Edmonds" for how all that works) to compete with other lines being aggresively pursued by Russia and China, who, as were posted above, have way more money to pay for their oil development than we do. Hence the incredible importance of again Turkmenistan & Khazakstan as American allies (puppets?) and why we rather clandestinely and militarily support southern Georgia's independence from Russia (and may have been behind some of the skirmishes there against Russia).
Wonder how it feels to be Obama having to lie to the world daily concerning what this is all about. Being the upright guy he is must be positibely soul-rotting. To tell the truth would 1) either bring down the US economy because it would mean that he would have to admit in public that we are not entitled to the oil, and/or 2) be dead because the powers-that-be would have him offed as soon as he spoke the truth. Too much at stake.
Really disgusting. Mainstream media compliance on this is essential for the ignorance of the American people. Think you'll see an analysis like the one I linked to in any Mainstream news? Ya know, even if you did, I don't think collectively Americans have the attention span or interest to take it all in and understand what this means for us.
Yes, when they are talking about them hating our our "freedom" and "way of life" as W frequently used to say, just realize that those are shorthand for "freedom to grab energy wherever it is in the world, killing whomever in the process", and "our energy-hogging, oppressive and consumption-based way of life".
Which ties into the 9/11 thing, since that was the rationale given for "their" terrorism. I believe the truth is in between Margolis our astute commenter above. The Saudis were on the CIA payroll down in Florida, training for missions that we put them up to, but they double-crossed us and I believe that Cheney, certain Israel-loyal neocons, and Mossad via P-Tech (Google Indira Singh for that story) had a hand in the double-cross. The aim was war against Muslims and also a massive money heist in the basement of the WTC. Larry Silverstein was in on it. I don't believe Bush was in on it. But there were rogue elements in our government who were complicit in the way Ollie North was. Cheney and the neocons have different agendas (profiteering via energy dominance/security for Israel), but they have a nice symbiotic relationship going on. Just my opinion based on all I've read.
Excellent analysis by Eric Margolis... but he leaves out the elephant in the room!
Why are gas and oil never mentioned in the discussions over what to do in Afghanistan?
Outside of us being in Afghanistan as an energy pipeline protection force, Margolis and I do not see the purpose of our being there. 8 years ago it was to find Osama bin laden, still no luck, and he is probably in Pakistan and the guys who rammed the planes into the WTC trained in Dresden ,Germany as well as the USA. Then there is the argument that we got to get them there or else they'll come here and create havoc. But people can prepare to attack the US from anywhere in the world-- Af/Pak, Dresden, New York or ???.
What was needed in Afghanistan was police/spy work; not invasion. Our military overthrew the Taliban-- the mainly Pushtun group, and Afghanistan's largest minority (43%), and put the smaller minority Tajiks in power. Guess what? The uproar continues .
Solution-get out now as our being there only causes more friction and let the Pushtuns and the Tajiks work it out.
Unless, of course, we're there as a energy pipeline protection force. Even so, this is a bad neighborhood for us to be in. China and Russia want their energy routes in this part of the world and we want ours. India and Pakistan are killer enemies and we are foolish to step in the middle of it. So, if oil and gas is your game, then fight it out in this tough arena and the hell with the toll in deaths and revenue--if not, get the hell out.
For further info:
Chomsky Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqX4Jg3DrzY
Escobar article: Pipelineistan's Ultimate Opera
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175121/pepe_escobar_pipelineistan_s_ultimate_opera
The only way to "win" the war on terror is to stop the war on terror.
Terrorism is still a crime. That's why we pay law enforcement to address it.
If the US government would show it does NOT work for AIPAC we would be over half way to the end of Islamic terrorism against us. Ending military occupation of Muslim lands would soon put this mess into the past.
But that's not what the US Government is interested in.
The Beast is named at davedubya.com
Dave Dubya: "If the US government would show it does NOT work for AIPAC we would be over half way to the end of Islamic terrorism against us. "
I agree completely with the above, although I'd say we'd be nearer 90% of the way. I agree with your other points also. It really is that simple. And one could have made the same points, with the same validity, in any one of the many, many US "interventions" in 3rd World states in my lifetime (65 years). But the US never learns that the answer to "If at first you don't succeed" is NOT "use a bigger hammer." This is why most people in countries around the world (and not only 3rd world countries) tend to fall back on the term "stupid" to describe American foreign policy.
Yet another sensible, sane article from Eric Margolis.
My only quibble is the linking of Usama bin Laden (as our FBI spells it) to the 9/11 atrocities. To this day, 8 years later, the FBI does NOT list those atrocities as one of bin Laden's many crimes, because the FBI does NOT have hard evidence of his complicity. You can look it up.
So the entire "justification" for bombing Afghanistan starting in Oct., 2001 may well have been, as was the case with Iraq, made up to provide a reason for geo-strategic positioning of U.S. military forces near oil and gas resources (Caspian Sea) and near the borders of Iran, Russia and China, to control their access to those resources and, in the case of Iran, surround it.
I agree. I have never heard any convincing evidence that Bin Laden had anything to do with the WTC disaster. Supposedly he claimed he had done it, but that could be faked, and so could the occasional messages supposedly coming from him since then. The GWOT is a fraud, in my opinion. The official story has always defied common sense.
I was also shocked back in 2001 when all the evidence from the biggest crime scene in U.S. history was picked up and hauled away and the steel sent overseas to be melted. When an airplane goes down, every scrap of the plane is kept and examined, even to the point of trying to re-assemble the plane. But with the disaster in NYC, all the physical evidence was removed and destroyed by the government, and so it has been difficult, nearly impossible, for anyone to do forensic analysis of the debris.
yes too true, until we resolve the underlying crime of 9/11 we can't address our foreign policy problems
Exactly. Detail in an earlier reply to lebeau.