"Now Make Me Do It"
Never much of a fighter against abusive corporate power, Barack Obama is making it increasingly clear that right from his start as President, he wanted health insurance reform that received the approval of the giant drug and health insurance industries.
Earlier this year he started inviting top bosses of these companies for intimate confabs in the White House. Business Week magazine, which proclaimed recently that "The Health Insurers Have Already Won" reported that the CEO of UnitedHealth, Stephen J. Hemsley, met with the President half a dozen times.
These are the vendors. They and their campaign slush funds cannot be ignored in the power struggle over the legislation percolating in the Congress. One public result of these meetings was that the drug industry promised $80 billion in savings over ten years and the health insurance moguls promised $150 billion over the same decade. Mr. Obama trumpeted these declarations without indicating how these savings would be guaranteed, how the drug companies could navigate the antitrust laws and what was given to the health care industry by the White House in return.
We have now learned that one Obama promise was to continue the prohibition on Uncle Sam from bargaining for volume discounts on drugs that you the taxpayer have been paying for in the drug benefit program enacted in 2003.
Unknown is whether the health insurance companies were also promised continuation of Medicare Advantage with its 14% added taxpayer subsidy to induce the elderly to make the move out of public Medicare. Also unknown is whether the Medicare public option that Mr. Obama formerly espoused but since has wavered on has been put on the concession table.
The whole secret process is seedy and demonstrates cruel disregard for the millions of American who, whether in dire need of medical services or not, voted in "change we can believe in."
By stark contrast, President Obama has never invited to the White House the leading consumer-patient champions in this country who favor full Medicare and free choice of physician and hospital-often called "a single payer" system. Open to the corporate barons who have failed decade after decade to deliver what patients need, the White House door is closed to the likes of Dr. Quentin Young-a founder of the Physicians for a National Health Program and an old Chicago friend of Obama's, Dr. Sidney Wolfe, who heads Public Citizen's Health Research Group, Drs. Marcia Angell, Stephanie Woolhandler, and David Himmelstein, who are nationally known and accomplished single payer advocates or Rose Ann DeMoro, executive director of the fast-growing California Nurses Association.
Mr. Obama even tried to exclude any advocate of a single payer system-previously favored by Obama and still favored by a majority of the American people, doctors and nurses-from his roundtable meetings convened to receive the views of different constituencies.
"Make me do it" was the advice of Franklin Delano Roosevelt to reformers when faced with legislation he desired but did not have the votes for in Congress. Mr. Obama is not exerting that plea for people power. Were he to do that, he would be encouraging daily public hearings in the Senate and the House on the bureaucratic waste, greed, overbilling, collusion, and fraud that many in the corporate world have inflicted with their costly, pay or die health care industry.
Such publicized hearings would keep him on the offensive. It would arouse the public and focus energies on the main problem-the corporatization of medicine. This commercialism has left tens of millions of people without health insurance, caused 20,000 fatalities a year, and cost Americans twice or more per capita than have full Medicare systems in western countries, which have better health outcomes than the U.S.
Further indication of Obama's corporate dealings is that he never identified himself with a specific bill with a House and Senate number that he could rally the people around. No wonder people are confused, frustrated and angry. President Obama did not stand for an unambiguous proposal.
He thereby emboldened both the cash and carry Blue dog Democrats to rebel and the Republican yahoos to launch their lies and distortions via Rush Limbaugh and similar trash media.
Obama is about to make his biggest mistake to date by favoring the bipartisan deal his assistants are working out with Blue Dog Senator Max Baucus and his Republican counterparts on the Senate Finance Committee. This proposal has no public option, no consumer protections or restraints on the mayhem and skyrocketing charges of the so-called health care industry.
Already the less corporate-indentured bills being reported from the House Committee by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and his allies are getting short-shrift from a White House that clearly views the forthcoming Baucus-Grassley "compromise" as the "more practical" go-to legislation.
There is reliable word that the AFL-CIO will endorse whatever Obama approves, with the exceptions of the California Nurses Association and the Sheet Metal Workers' union. The latter, through their president, Michael J. Sullivan, announced in late July that it was suspending all future campaign contributions to any candidate for Congress or the Presidency.
Already over sixty progressive members of the House, headed by Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) have declared opposition to these unacceptable compromises moving forward in both the House and the Senate.
So is gridlock around the corner? Will there be a health insurance reform of any stripe signed into law this year? It depends on the alliances that settle for the lowest corporate denominators being blocked by the unyielding principled stands of the progressives who want something that puts patients above the failed profiteering vendors.
The guess here is that Obama will sign anything which squirms through a cowardly Congress that cannot give to the American people in 2009 the health care system Congress stopped President Harry Truman from establishing in 1950.
It is up to the people of our country to "make him do it" whether this year or next. A mere one million immediate calls to members of Congress by one million assertive citizens will start sobering up these legislators who think they can get away with another sale of our public trust.
The Congressional switchboard is 202-224-3121. The full Medicare, single payer bill (backed by nearly ninety legislators) is H.R. 676. The go-to citizen group for your sustained engagement is singlepayeraction.org. The rest is up to you, the majority, who want to put the people first.
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182 Comments so far
Show AllIf Obama didn't want to give America an affordable health care system that will truly fix the damage our current system does to the economy, then I can't imagine why he took on the project. At the same time, I can't imagine why he would stipulate that the plan be dominated by the private insurance companies. For obvious reasons, the private insurance plan is bound to fail on economic issues alone, and Obama, seemingly, knows it. Yet he goes through the motions, day after day, of pushing the worse possible solution.
It's as if he is outlining, by negative actions, the solution to the problem: a single payer plan. The more Obama tries, the more he illustrates the impossibility of the private insurance plan. I cannot believe that Obama wants to saddle the country with Max Baucus' insurance-industry cash cow, and to go down in history as the fool who did it. He knows senate progressives can kill a bill that lacks a public option. And he knows that the insurance companies really want Baucus's plan so bad they can taste it. So, in the end, we can force them to take a public option, or get nothing at all. Maybe a restart with a single payer solution. We are the change. Let's "make him do it."
I think for myself, taking information from all sides and processing it for the purpose of living a life which promotes an egalitarian society with respect for all living things, especially the Earth. That said, I made the mistake of voting "against" Republicans rather than "for" real change. Positive social and economic change cannot come from the Democrats. Third parties can count on my vote as I protest the Democrats complicity with the Republicans. I'm sick of the hypocrisy and lies the two major parties promulgate on a regular basis. Obama's lack of progressive politics was the last straw. I'll bet there are many more like me out there.
Ralph Nader has vision. I wonder if he might articulate a strategy for the disempowered intelligentsia who want change, who would listen and act upon a "Nader Strategy," so many vital people....but more than tactics, a strategy.
I'd follow any advice he gave, once he recommended getting 500 people together and that would draw an assemblyman or some such, but, that is a tactic, easily absorbed,
We need more, and HE has vision and believers. Hello you all. Elections cometh.
Hello back... from me anyway.
Hey man, I'm heading into the mountains to do a 3 or 4 day solo backpack. But not completely alone. I'll have my girlfriend "Shasta" with me. Girl dog that is. She'll let me know when there's bears around, and let the bears know that we bad. Sure hope the weather holds. Nothing sucks more than a soggy camp.
It'll be nice to get away from phones and computers and POLITICS!
Adios amigos and amigas! Especially la amigas!
first off obama was picked by the corps because he wasn't threatening to them and they saw him as a great con and diver
son and would keep us busy for a while with his wit and bs.
that part of the onion has been peeled to reveal a spineless
coward who even in the collapse of our once great democracy
will not fight the powers who are enslaving us.OBAMA
IN BASKETBALL PARLANCE ITS TIME TO BUST A MOVE AND TAKE
THE ROCK TO THE HOLE! GET YOUR ASS MOVING! as much as he
inherited a bad hand he prefers to bite ours rather then do whats
right for america. you knew the deal coming in but your
killing the people who elected you. this will be on your
CONscience until you die. thats if you have one!
its time to be the obama who talked all that junk
pre nov 4 2008 and the man you swore you would be!
"A mere one million immediate calls to members of Congress by one million assertive citizens will start sobering up these legislators who think they can get away with another sale of our public trust."
Why just restrict it to calling on the phone? What about a "call" in person?
How about stopping off at the local art store for some poster sized paper and then heading on over to your nearest elected Democrat's office and hold a sign like:
60 People Die
per day lacking
SinglePayer
HealthCare
While
CA Rep Susan Davis
Enjoys Vacation
You can fill in whichever Democrat's office you happen to be standing in front of.
If enough people did this for just a couple of hours once a week then THAT would bring some sobriety right quick. It can also kick-off a movement to unseat in 2010 all those Democrats who betray the public trust.
Vote for a Democrat ever again? Make me do it.
Mr. Nader,
Children who haven't learned the difference between right and wrong must be "made" to do the right thing.
I believe President Obama knows the difference between right and wrong.
"Single Payer" health care is the only right thing to do for the American people!
I am sick and tired of the term "Political Will"!
You are right "mebadgett": "DO THE RIGHT THING"
HANDS ACROSS AMERICA RALLY for SINGLE PAYER(MEDICARE FOR ALL)
August 23, 2:00(cst)at or on your local main street
everyone should watch the new movie:
"DISTRICT 9" (warning: don't read further if you don't want the "spoiler"..and i'm leaving a space below so you can avert your eyes and scroll on to other commentary)
aliens landing on earth - but get stranded and unable to return to their spaceship that's floating above Johannesburg in south africa - so they are "allowed" a "district" of their own - and become a cause celebre or notoriety or derision for the whole world --
which is just FINE for the then-global dominant MNU (Multi-National-Unity - meaning corporations become more and more militaristic to "secure order" globally)...which are of course interested in profitmaking and do ANYTHING, for adopting the weaponry of the aliens which are "confiscated" by earthlings as the aliens are of course allowed only to be in their district like a slum.
EXCELLENT low-budget movie that is actually a metaphor for our times.
This article is typical Nader: progressive, brilliant, and passionate.
Single payer or Revolt!
Someone on another thread reminded me that I hadn't checked Michael Moore's website for quite some time. If anyone is interested, SICKO is showing on Turner Classic Movies on the following dates:
On The Movie Channel
08/17/09 at 6:30 AM
08/17/09 at 10:00 PM
On TMC Xtra
08/18/09 at 5:15 PM
On TMC Xtra
08/21/09 at 2:30 PM
On TMC Xtra
08/21/09 at 4:00 AM
I feel that Barack Obama was allowed to be elected so to place blame on a non-white for the excesses of the rich/white man mentality...war, war, war, against others, against their own, for the 'almighty' $$$. I was assured by someone 'relatively' close to him that he was the 'real deal' and could be trusted to work on behalf of the people, but I question that daily now, besides words I would like some proof, the progressives got him there and he needs to stand firm on his earlier promises. I write, protest and pray that those who understand the golden rule, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" will unite in their thoughts and actions and some universal awareness will suddenly, inexplicabley, be apparent....in a shrinking world full of wrong decision makers, we need something to shock us into reality...and remove the veils of deceit.
that could possible be true..
are they already working towards the next election time?
if they have,
control of
all media, or what you read in the papers daily, plus control of:
healthcare,
departement of Defense
Insurance companys
banks/
large corporations such as metals, automobiles,
and control of the web?
They could blame everything on this brand new, young president, and
then you would not have the ability to check up on them too, could you?
received this email from my icu nurse brother this a.m.:
OK, riddle me this. I have something like the flu. One person in the ICU has died from swine flu. I call my MD on a Saturday. He says to get Tamiflu and he'll send a prescription order right away. I have to wait until Monday for a simple throat swab, even though the lab that runs them is open 24-7. Why wait an extra 2 days for a definitive diagnosis? For insurance billing reasons. Thanks corporate Healthcare.
yup thanks heaps from me too....one of those 'one med. emergency away from homelessness' stats....
ahh,
swine flu?
does the name donald rumsfeld come to mind? as in drug (pharma) companys, and fear?
go straight to the source..
check out:
cdc.org, or centers for disease control and prevention in Atlanta..
They are the experts who takes millions a year to prevent outbreaks, and such.
Ralph my man ! I voted for you three in a row and you would have been better but what happened happened. Anyway, up until the end of your article, you were spot on. I hate to break it to you and everyone else reading and posting here but Congress is filled with long tenured criminals who are "immune" to our cries for single payer. This applies to Republicans and Democrats. We can call and bug 'em until eternity but Congress ain't gonna listen. The only way we can really make 'em do it is by voting them all out next year. Sorry.
frederick,
you mentioned voting?
I have a website for you, on voting fraud, election scandals, etc..here it is:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/electionscoverups
Obama is a vertitable caveman in that he caves, caves, caves to corporate interests. He is the last Dimascrap Presidential candidate that I will vote for unless he miraculously changes his tune. As ever Nader is right and fighting for our interests.
The solution is simple: we need to make it clear that we will not re=elect any politician who supports anything but single payer.
reading911 August 16th, 2009 12:14 pm................Do you seriously believe you have any power whatsoever over who becomes president?
We have power. We just choose to sit on our asses and moan about how awful things are instead of organising to USE our power.
DK could have been elected president in 2004...except that none of those who claim to want him as president would do anything more than sit around and complain.
If we get off our asses and start organising, we can have IMMENSE power.
Americans voted the Democrats in but thanks to Obama, Republicans are still making the laws. Now the Democrats will be blamed for bad Republican laws, laugh out loud.
The bottom line is that both of the parties are too far to the right to pass a reasonable health care law or even to fully understand the issues and requirements involved. You can get away with it on some things, but you can't be anti-progressive and solve health care. It appears to be that simple.
Obama, as Nader describes here, seems even more incapable to do anything that will work for more than a few short years than do the two parties as a whole. Moreover, Obama is so lame that he does not even seem qualified to be President. If Obama was a prime minister in a parliamentary democracy, there would already be some talk about a future vote of no confidence which could end his tenure and trigger a new election.
Although there are many other issues that both parties are too far to the right to successfully deal with, the health care issue is special. Most of the other issues requiring progressive input apparently don't have the kind of relatively near term "economy wrecking power" that the failed US health care system seems to pack.
"Long term" means about 50 years or many multiples of that whereas "near term" could be a few short decades. Even right wingers sit up and take notice when something threatens the economy in the near term, thus all the discussion about health care this year.
It appears that health care may be the thing which is first in line to bring down the hard right US system once and for all.
Consider this summary of the grim logic and plausible chain of events involved here. The political system can't fix the health care system. And the health care system is bringing down the economy as a whole. If the economy is destroyed, the political system would no doubt go with it.
this goes straight to voting in again...check out this one on our voting cover-ups.:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/electionscoverups
somebody has been pissing on your voting system.
I think perhaps Obama's choice of cabinet and advisors points out his position on things and would negate any push to make him do anything at all.
Attorney General Holder came out of a Washington DC law firm and worked for GW bush in the Rove lost email case. He worked for the RNC and defended the RNC in the new hampshire phone jamming case among other republican cases. I doubt he will address criminality of the past administration or revisit 911.
Obama surrounds him self with republicans and right wing hacks as he glibly lies to the progressive democrats. Hope that we the people could move him away from this position through phone calls or even marches in the street seem doomed to fail or not be effective.
Suggestions to make changes locally within our towns, counties and states, a bottom up push, would seem to be perhaps more effective. Understanding and taking action as consumer and wage slave is a place where we are face to face with the policies that fail us and face to face with those that profit without moral input and seek personal power and control, a place where we can have the most influence.
Quite unfortunately this would require a large amount of personal fortitude, strength, and intelligence and our actually forming coalitions with others that we may find our selves uncomfortable working with. As a very individualistic society I think perhaps it hard for us to understand the necessity in democracies of coalitions and community building blocks to address the issues that confront us and be the change and hope we wish someone else would just hand us.
He certainly has hired his fair share of Clitonistas as well and that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me. When you look at Clinton and his capital gains tax cuts and banking deregulation, you realize he was the bluest of blue dogs. Obama is proving to be a huge disappointment but I don't know why my expectations were higher when you realize that there isn't a whole lot of truly progressive Democratic leadership out there. Conyers and Kucinich come to mind but that is about it.
The unbridled capitalism of Reagan has led to the corporate fascism we are now experiencing today. How else would you describe the banking bailouts and massive deregulation we are now experiencing. Marx pointed out that unbridled capitalism leads to an alienated worker and detached citizen. It has come to fruition and the lack of coalitions and community building in this country is more than evident. We're in a fine mess and I am not sure how we get out of it.
Obama is no Abe Lincoln. He fears walking through the valley of the shadow of change. He acts the part of a corporate house boy. He is ushering in a new age of the old broken down 20th Century. He is resistant to change, an anchor of the past. Change will blow by him and forever cast his vacuous smile in shame. Obama is milk toast.
The fat lady is not singing...yet. That said, his performance thus far is well below my lowest expectations. Stepin Fetchit comes to mind. Let us only hope he is ultimately subversive to the status quo.
" I saw the impertinent malice of mediocrity boastfully holding up its own emptiness as an abyss to be filled by the bodies of its betters."
A quote from Shakespeare?
No. Not by a long shot.
But the lines do have their brilliance.
They tend to capture that horrid essence of capitalism that causes both its masters and its slaves to see each other as dehumanized.
So then: any guesses as to the unwitting author?
[This questions shouldn't be too difficult to answer, at least at first....]
It was Ayn Rand writing in Atlas Shrugged. Richard Halley, I believe but, I'll have to look at it again. Yeah, I read that piece of shit book when I was a kid. I even read the whole speech that went on for page after page...lol
The John Galt speech in the book was more than I could handle. And, it did go on, page after page, after page! In fact, I skipped it -- once I had read a few pages! To me, the speech seemed so pretentious.
A friend of mine gave me a copy of the book when I was attending college.
I read her Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged too - also "enthusiastically" suggested to me by a college friend...
and after a while..i decided it was nothing but self-important condescension and PLENTY of bitterness.
I can't even really recall the episodes as what kept jumping out at me was this constant sense of condescension and contempt in her writings towards the "unelect".
and she made out this John Galt (the architect) as some kind of godlike figure that out of frustration at the "undeserving"...was going to destroy his "creations" for society - as if some kind of God withholding his blessings...meaning
The "people don't deserve our TRICKLE DOWN economics because they are such INGRATES towards OUR kindness and generosity of being their BETTERS".......
of course Rand was known for developing those "concepts" as a result of her RICH family's experience in soviet russia of being dispossessed by the communist revolution.
her work basically is a reflection of a rich , comfortable bourgouie's bitterness that her socially and economically elevated status - based as it was on historical feudalism and incipient capitalism - or something akin to "royalty" or "nobility" was dashed to pieces by the "proletariat".
whatever the merits or demerits of communism or socialism OR the demerits of the way they were applied in russia -
Ayn Rand's rantings were just that -- rantings, couched as philosophy, by a rich woman resentful that her life of privilege was "stolen" from her and her family...so she makes up this John Galt character symbolizing how the rich did it all by their honest to goodness hardwork and honesty and decency -- and ordinary folks are poor because they "deserve it"...........
no wonder ronald reagan adored her..for her making the rich look like martyrs in the midst of the '"lazy, undeserving" masses....
meaning - the peasants of the world , in her view.
she is the High Priestess of "we the rich are rich because we are DESTINED to be rich and it is our BIRTHRIGHT".
I mourn for your lost childhood :-)
Posting Rand quotes on a progressive website? I'm surprised the server didn't crash.
Let's do it, Ralphie! Howabout the rest of yous? Are you in?
Now, MAKE THAT CALL!
That's 1-202-224-3121
CALL NOW!
"The full Medicare, single payer bill (backed by nearly ninety legislators) is H.R. 676"
I called my Congresswoman Kathy Castor about Rep. Weiner's amendment a couple weeks ago, but I'll definitely start calling her district office to ask her to support the full HR676 bill when it comes down to a floor vote.
Jeevee
NOW will you start looking at the voting records???
hey Jeevee, you can start with this website, on voting cover-ups..http://www.wanttoknow.info/electionscoverups
The part that's really scaring me is who's going to be the Reagan to Obama's Carter?
Oh that's so easy to answer--Mitt "the Mormon-Nazi thug" Romney. His polished jack-boots, swastika armband, and SS collar pins are waiting for their chance to "come out of the closet" and glitter before the goose-step strutting masses.
Be afraid, be very afraid, because he is neither old and senile nor in the posession of any kind of historical consciouosness of the past 100 years or so of contemporary history. His mind is the perfect blank slate on which corporate America can scribble its latest abominations designed to make the world desolate in the name of greater profits.
Poet
Sarah Palin.
I'm tellin' ya... if Obama doesn't pull off a big (undeniable) win with single payer healthcare, he's history. Expect Hillary to challenge him and win the nomination. She'll then face Palin.
Of course, its just my take.
Hillary vs. Obama? That's soooo retro. Hillary turning on Obama would be viewed as the Super Bitch. Her only chance is 2016.
Nader's usual trenchant analysis nicely sinks the canard that Obama is an FDR analogue.
The FDR "make me do it" anecdote always seemed spurious to me. As RichM's frequent comments on this point explain so well, FDR's seeming invitation to be coerced into supporting reform and benefits programs was issued at a time when governments were far more fearful of mass rebellion and revolution, and labor unions had found their footing.
The implication that Obama sort of winked and gave a quiet thumbs-up to progressive, populist values doesn't stand up upon consideration of the totality of the circumstances.
Nader complements this argument by underscoring the typically overlooked fact that FDR actually supported the goals of labor and left-wing populists, even if FDR's motives were not necessarily altruistic and pure.
Clearly, Obama is at best cool to politically labor-and-capital-intensive ambitious hopes to reform health care and rehabilitate civil liberties and the rule of law. He's the Man of a Thousand Poses, but his disdain for policies and programs that benefit ordinary citizens at the expense of corporate and financial interests is no pose.
Since winning the nomination, much less since getting elected, Obama "castled" behind his right rook and has been working ever since against populist, progressive, and humanitarian politics by fortifying his instinctive reactionary attitude with a ring of neoliberal Clintonista hawks military brass, and-- last, but not least-- banksters.
His ONE exception, way back when, was his alleged desire to have Dawn Johnsen appointed head of the OLC. Obama has let Johnsen twist slowly in the wind ever since. Her name will go down in infamy, in the manner of Lani Guinier.
So remaining Obama apologists need to stop pimping the wholly discredited view that he's always been waiting for sufficient arm-twisting from progressives and populists to challenge the Ruling Class vested interests as FDR did.
Otherwise, I appreciate that Ralph continues to call for citizen action to sway their elected misrepresentatives from their usual disastrous course.
But it brings to mind a scene from "The Simpsons" when Marge, Bart and his buddy Milhouse visit a sporting goods store to outfit Bart with a football uniform and equipment-- including a protective cup.
Bart tries on the outfit, then stands in front of the dressing room demanding that Milhouse kick him in the groin to test the newly-installed cup. Milhouse gets in a few swift kicks before Marge intervenes, and Bart confirms with smug satisfaction that he didn't feel a thing.
I'm pretty sure that it's mandatory for federal elected misrepresentatives to wear a cup.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Yes, the "make me do it" thing is getting a little old. Of course, what Ralph suggests should be done, but those who can write on the "blank slate" that Obama claims to be are obviously only the plutocrats and their minions. (Maybe we can write, but it's in disappearing ink.) Nothing could be more obvious at this point. "Make me do it" becomes another "dragging out" diversion, like "give him another few months".
By all means, deluge them with letters and messages. It's important to make ourselves known and keep the flow going, but the danger is thinking that it is enough.
Right now, the Obama administration (and Congress) probably believes the progressives are restless, but, as long as they can be contained in the ghetto, the corporatocracy can get along with its business. (The ghetto is a set of cultural assumptions and actions that seemingly validate ourselves but have little effect beyond the ghetto.) Maybe a flood of messages will help, but they may not be "sticks and stones". The whole set of corporate assumptions has to be undermined.
I agree with Abe Winken...work on the local things, too. We have some single payer legislation advancing in my state. Also, look at something like the Pharmacy Ownership Law in North Dakota (not exactly a blue state).
http://www.newrules.org/retail/rules/pharmacy-ownership-laws/pharmacy- ownership-law-north-dakota
Wal Mart, Walgreen's, and others fought it tooth and nail, but it survived and is still on the books. It's a great local measure and a bright spot. Maybe we are a little reluctant to step outside the ghetto, although there may be some green fields out there worth exploring. We have to out-think the corporatocracy. If we share practical political assumptions about ourselves with it, we won't get far.
I'm afraid that UNLESS americans show their displeasure EN MASSE - all at once - in the great majority - where it can no longer be hidden by media - and continuously - nothing will change.
just look at ALL the changes - radical ones - or at least for the moments that they forced changes - whether of leadership or politics or otherwise -
only when the people showed up ALL AT ONCE - after a groundswell of independent frustrations -- did the powers BEGIN TO FEAR the people.
that was in part really how the soviet union also collapsed...everyone saw - the russians simply showed they had ENOUGH of being "fearful" of the state apparatus.
the berlin wall fell when the germans of both sides just put all things aside - and just went the "old way" - just simply tore down the wall.
extremely disappointing is the generous way to say it about obama.
he is summed up in a few words:
"SALESMAN"
"SOLD"
"SELL-OUT".
i honestly don't know how he thinks he can continue his "ambiguities" when talking to the american public ...and then turn around with the secret deals against the american public...and still expect , come campaign time , to be believed when just this short into his presidency he has already a VERY long list of flops and discrediting decisions -- that would make Bill Clinton or George Bush blush at the "expertise" with which obama out-performs them.
it's really amazing how power and the ambition for it can corrupt.
and sad that it has to happen with the first black president that should, by itself, have been the great opportunity to truly move towards greater justice...as Dr Martin Luther King, Jr dreamed of...
and yet Obama turns all of that on its head.
We already voted so it's too late at this point. I think it's best for me to pay attention to my gubenatorial race in VA and help elect an independent governor who supports single payer for the state rather than helplessly try to phone our damn Congress critters in Washington who won't listen anyway. I suggest you people also fight for single payer in your state legislatures first just like Canada before hoping for national single payer.
I would try to keep in touch but up to a point. At some point, no amount of trying to contact them will work. I agree with the idea of trying to get one's own state to pass single payer.
At least now it seems the Obamabots mostly get tired of defending this fraud known as Barack Obama, the Beije Bush. The mask has fallen off, even compulsive liars like Randi Rhodes are having a hard time covering up for Obaminable.
Remember that more than two million registered Democrats voted for Bush in 2000 but cretins like Rhodes and most Dumbocrats still blame Nader for Bush's "victory" that year, and that just because Al Bore, who couldn't even win his own home state, lost by some 500 votes in Florida. Democrats are the ultimate scum, at least Republicans don't pretend they're not corporate criminals. Democrats do.
I'm getting so sick of that line about Nader "stealing" the 2000 election, or 2004, or was it both that he stole? Jesus Christ, who knows anymore. What a tired piece of horse dung that line is.
If the Democratic party is so bereft and bankrupt that they can't even take a win from the guy who pulled in 3% of the vote, I'd say you have bigger problems than Ralph Nader!
I was recently banned from one of those "Democratic" blogs for mentioning Nader one too many times. Honestly, what a bunch of 5-year-olds. How are these cretins different from the clowns at Redstate and Freeperville?
What I find disconcerting when I come to progressive sites like this one is this anger towards Democrats. I certainly would like a strong social Democrat party that would put a nasty wrench in these corporate fascist machinations but reality says otherwise. I can be frustrated and angry or I can look to move the Democratic party towards socialist goals and ideals. I choose the latter. That said, I vote for third party candidates when I see a solid one. What I don't do is vote for a Republican because I know an enemy when I see one.
You'll get no apologies from me regarding my Obama vote. I had to live through Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. I understand the realities of not voting for a Democrat president. You apparently do not.
What I find disconcerting is to find progressives still voting for Democrats. You say you don't vote for a Republican but you do when you put an Obama or a Bill Clinton in office, don't you realize that? Are you people ever waking up?
Isn't Obama betrayal of his campaign promises enough? His continuation and enhancing of ALL Bush policies? Or the 2007/8 Democratic backstabbing of the American voter after their take over of congress in 2006? Or Bill Clinton, the best Republican president we've ever had? Are you really that blind? During 8 years of the genocidal Bush administration, Democrats
1) Refused to stop funding his wars.
2) Refused to impeach him for several crimes.
3) Refused to investigate him for torture.
4) Allowed right-wingers like Mukasey, Gonzales and others to be confirmed.
5) Confirmed right-wingers into the Supreme Court.
6) Rubber stamped gargantuan military budgets.
7) Allowed Bush to spew 935 lies about the war without one single filibuster!
8) Allowed Cheney to out CIA agents and defy subpoenas.
9) Granted Bush and the Telecoms immunity for spying on Americans.
10) Insert your favorite Democratic Party backstabbing here____________.
For HEAVENS' SAKES wake the f*ck up.
Are the Dems in congress who support the single payer bill, fools and criminals?
Waldo, who did you vote for who had the experience and support to fix it?
Are you trying to apologize for Democrats by claiming there might still be a handful of good apples left in the party? What power do they have? These clowns' function is to keep gullible voters like you from leaving the party once and for all. They're useless unless they quit and start a new party.
The real power in the DNC belongs to extreme corporate criminals like Pelosi, Reid, Feinstein, the Clintos, Obama, Kerry and Biden. Like the GOP, the corporations pull the strings, there's absolutely no hope, let it go.
We all know about the corporations.
I support Progressives in Congress and we need more.
You won't get anything you want condemning all Dems.
You are free to believe what you want, but don't tell me what to do or how to vote.
Since you couldn't answer my simple question, I would ask you again who you voted for but with your clownish attitude, I don't give a hoot.
He's 7 months into his first term. I am not ready to throw the towel in. He should have done a war crimes investigation. I agree. Confirmed right-wingers to the Supreme Court? Huh? Better fund the military until we withdraw. The rest of the stuff you cite was done by Republicans. Now you try to blame him?
Any socialist gains we make in this country are going to have to be done within the framework we have today. I am not holding my breath for a violent revolution when we can't even organize a march on DC for single payer. Given the level of corporate fascist control in this country, the deck is clearly stacked. That doesn't mean we can't mount a serious counter attack and I think developing a highly progressive and vocal arm of the Democratic party would be a good first step.
You didn't read my post carefully, I was blaming Democrats in general for aiding, abetting and co-conspiring with Bush & Cheney for 8 long years. Please stop making excuses for Obama and his right-wing party. I can see you 3 years from now telling us that one term is not enough, no more dishonesty please.
"What I find disconcerting when I come to progressive sites like this one is this anger towards Democrats."
If you would actually read carefully and think about the issues instead of party affiliation alone, you would have realized that we're angry with the Republicans but we're just as angry with the Democrats who play go-along get-along with them.
"You'll get no apologies from me regarding my Obama vote. I had to live through Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. I understand the realities of not voting for a Democrat president. You apparently do not."
Oh please ! That's nothing but Obama apologist talk. Obama always lionizes Ronnie Raygun and he's continuing Dubya's policies and making it even worse. Pay attention to what's being discussed or at least go back and read the archives.
"Democrats are the ultimate scum"
What the heck? I can read just fine. I don't belong to the Democratic party. I would like a strong social democrat party that supports moving towards nationalizing the healthcare, insurance and energy industries. I would like a party that supports government provided higher education. I don't have one. I can pout and call democrats scum but that won't do a bit of good. The reality is, of the two parties, my socialist ideology has a better chance of being adopted by the democrats than the republicans.
As for Obama apologist, that isn't the case at all. I am just not prepared to make a final judgment at this point in time. You'll get no apologies or condemnations.
Lefty August 16th, 2009 10:46 am...........What "light" do you see in the Obama strategy that allows you to have some idea that Obama will suddenly become the "peoples" president? Do you see him hopping off the corporate bandwagon? Is he re-instating habeas corpus? Is he calling for a new investigation of 9/11? Is he rescinding the Patriot Act? The MCA? Is he holding the last administration accountable for their myriad crimes? Is the Valerie Plame case being re-investigated? Is anyone talking about the use of DU in the ME? Are war crimes being investigated? Is anyone taking a second look at the crimes of Katrina. Is anyone in the administration looking into the idea that OBL died in December of 2001, according to Egyptian headlines? Has Blackwater been barred from any further government contracts? KBR? Halliburton? Is anyone looking for the 350B dollars that has disappeared under TARP? Does anyone care that children were tortured in our name? That anyone was tortured in our name?
What light do you see that I am missing?
Bravissimo. You see that you got no rebuttals from Obamabots. They have absolutely no argument against the bitter truth about what President Obusha really represents.
So join them like Arlo if you feel that way....
We need it all.
Parties are tools to use by the people if we use them.
Parties are tools to use by the people with brains, but Democratic and Republicans voters have none. Democrats and Republicans are not parties to begin with, they're co-conspiring criminal enterprises operating in perfect harmony. Only fools believe they oppose each other in any way, shape or form. They never did.
OK, If you are better than all the criminal fools who run the show, what do you suggest in reply of Ralph Nader's article?
More "2012 talk". Always deferring action until the "next election". Always.
And, sorry Ralph, but phone calls will do nothing.
All they'll understand is a million pissed-off people at their front door who refuse to leave until a fair, single payer deal is cut. Period.
Only that will get their attention and get us what we what.
Anything else will fall short.
I'm not sure millions of bodies in Washington will do the trick. Before we invaded Iraq literally millions hit the streets around the world and look where that got us...I'd sure take the bus ride to DC if progressives would just organize a gigantic march that included ALL lefties and free thinkers.
I think you're wrong - phone calls will do something, just not enough.
Nader is right - we need to do it all. Email, call, write letters, join www.singlepayeraction.org, sign up to organize events at your mis-representatives' district offices (which I just did at the web site), AND show up pissed-off at their offices. Hell, do it all!
Again, join an organization that is focused on this issue. Calling for people to stage anything without an organizing entity is like blowing smoke.
If you're gonna contact your Congress critters, make sure you have a million bucks to entice 'em with. Otherwise, it's too late once they're voted into office.
I get your point, but disagree that it's too late. Fear is a powerful motivator and even a rich man will let loose of his gold if he is afraid for his life.
If your representative has been in office longer, there ain't no way you're gonna be able to get him or her to listen. They're often well established and unlikely to give in to public opinion. Good luck if your rep is one of 'em.
Two days after taking office, Al Franken already had $2,500 in his coffers from the health insurance industry.
These scum lobbyists are THAT fast. And I'm sure there will be more where that came from. Anybody who thinks Franken told his aides to get on the phone to Blue Cross and give that money back is delusional.
These politicians are corrupt to the core.
Franken's a pro-Israel centrist anyway. You can't trust him.
moonpie August 15th, 2009 7:11 pm......You have nailed it exactly. Until that happens, all talk is BS.
IT'S ALL TALK UNTIL WE WALK!
I'm in. When and where do we stage? I've had enough of right wing news hour. Let's make some news!
...and therein lies our quandary, Lefty... who will lead?
You'd think our wonderful leaders--writers, publishers, activists (and perhaps even a trusted political weasel or two) in the progressive camp--would have banded together & stepped up. Nope. They're too busy carving their little niches in the markets and smoozing each other.
The Huffington Posts, TruthDigs, The Nations, The Progressives, The Michael Moores, The Bill Mahers, The Antiwars, the JIm Hightowers, the Howard Zinn, and of course everyones favorite liberal, PBSs Bill Moyers. You know, the liberal MONEYMAKERS.
Come to think of it, I wonder if they could actually come together--personality and ego wise-- to put on a Peoples Political Woodstock? I think not, they have a vested interest in seeing that things stay the same--there's more money in that than camping out for a few weeks on the Capital Steps.
Just my take, mind you.
I agree MP. Our business and political leaders have failed us miserably these last 30 years. We are clearly heading backwards. That said, I have to look in the mirror and realize my own lack of action has done nothing to stem the tide.
When people have to make their politicians do it, then we don't live in a democracy. Nader's suggestion that a million people call their members of Congress only goes so far. Who controls the politicians? Except for voting, we don't. The corporation do almost every day. We will have to first take control of the corporations before we can make the puppets do it.
How do you plan to take over and control the corporations?
Are you speaking of taking them over by force? Or, by trying to take them over from within?
Either way... the latter way is a comical idea, I think. But, I would be willing to hear the plan.
As to the former way: if you try to take over the corporations by force it means that you will also have to "get past" and defeat the State and their goon-squads (police). Understand that these two entities have a symbiotic relationship - they support and reinforce each other.
The State (government) has ALWAYS protected the capitalists first and foremost. They ALWAYS side with and protect corporate economic interests and property rights (after all, protecting property rights is one of it's main functions) over protecting the common interests of the people. In short, the state is simply a coercive mechanism that is essential to ensure that the power elites are able to dominate and exploit the planet and the masses by protecting certain economic monopolies from which the power elites derive their wealth.
EDIT: After already posting my first response I see that (through reading your response to others) that you have further elaborated on your once vague idea of "taking control of the corporations."
Take care
Right, your gonna take control of the corporations without calling anybody in power.
Anything by itself only goes so far and that is why we need everything.
The people need to speak out inside and outside the system.
Since the built up animosity of Ralph and the Dems, both competing for progressive votes, I have been thinking that his ideas will have a better chance to shake up this winner take all system if he ran as a radical Green Republican.
I think that party is in need of a new direction and the majority of their voters are not wealthy. They are trapped into this world is against them mind frame ...like many of us are here.
He can take the lead from Arlo Guthrie who joined the Republican Party because he believes that since we have this system that has evolved, the Republicans are very important to change.
Most of the "vote 3rd party posters" from our past discussions over the years want to teach the Dems a lesson by getting a Republican in so why not teach the Republicans how to be real populists and Nader would get their ear real fast.
Just a suggestion since I think Ralph could get his good ideas across much better as a Green Republican.
And all the progressive 3rd parties need to get together for voter power. Inside and outside, together forward.
Make the Republicans do it too!
Still Dreamin
You're missing my point. Congress is controlled like puppets by the huge corporations. But we the people who do business with those big corporations can stop doing business with them and switch to good corporations and small businesses. We could also find ways to help take over the bad leadership of those bad corporations and turn them into good puppet masters for the people. That's what I mean by working from the system inside and out.
OK.
I'm following your comments back and forth...
about reversing the direction of the hostile corporate takeovers.
I would so love to see THEM taken over for a change, by.....what in their place??
Watched "Food Inc." last night.
Knew most of it already - but the video reality is still haunting me.
Today I say www.storyofstuff.com
One year ago I watched "The Money Master"
BUT.... 3 years ago I discovered Sudbury Valley Schools.
www.sudval.org
The shining light in the midst of darkness!
Sudbury Valley is a school that is democratically run, by the students, k - 12.
They handle all aspects of the school - from finances to hiring the staff....EVERYTHING!
What's brings sense to all this jumble?
I wrote Mr. Nadar.
I told him he has me listening because he can identify the problems.
I had to say that he looses me because he can't paint a picture of the alternative.
The "democracy" that we have now, barely registers a pulse.
Instead of "fighting it", maybe we can go with the tao.
Talk more about the picture, the vision....
Get some detail, put some meat on the bones, get poetic.
Here's mine..
#1 check out www.sudval.org to see how to handle the kids
It's the best investment in the democratic process a society could ever make
#2 do you know of permaculture? It's the blueprint to Permanent Culture
In my world, everybody would be signing up for courses.
#3 check out the weston price foundation. A diet for consideration.
Together with permaculture....
THESE ARE THE INGREDIENTS OF HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!!!
I didn't see Sicko - but I think he missed the point.
Our cultural conditioning (addicts to consumerism) can't be fixed by any of the "health" care bills.
Call those bills "body mechanics" - or something else.
Please don't confuse the reality of the current medical system by labeling it "health"
It's late where I live - got to make the dinner
I went to singlepayeraction.org but there was no petition to sign.
Yeah, hitting the Join the Action is the only way to be part of the 1m but don't see petition either.
This line is starting to sound like a defiant taunt instead of a pleas for public support. Be careful what you wish for President Obama, you just may get it!
Poet
"It is up to the people of our country to "make him do it" whether this year or next. A mere one million immediate calls to members of Congress by one million assertive citizens will start sobering up these legislators who think they can get away with another sale of our public trust."
I'm not so sure that it will work this time. Last year, in Kansas City, MO, 99% of those who called Congressman Cleaver on the issue of bailouts to Wall Street opposed the package but he still voted for it.
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/elections-politics-politics-political-parties/12100254-1.html
And this is the problem. We all vote for Congress members who keep doing it to us and yet we expect different results. I'm not so sure calling them does any wonders anymore. They listen to money more than voices. I would like to ask all of you on this forum which of you are employed and how long do you work a day? The reason I ask is some people who are employed work longer shifts and are unable to get to know what's really happening. Until recently, I didn't have the time to read or post because I worked 11-13 hours a day on average. Another thing to consider is that despite the polls showing that 70% agree with single payer, there are more people who don't even know what it is to begin with. I strongly support single payer but we have to keep the masses in mind. If more people don't know it, then aren't the polls flawed? I am very disappointed with Obama for paying more attention to the drug and insurance companies and not the people. But I don't see Congress any better because most of them have been there for years. Good luck calling them but I don't trust them to listen to us.
Stanley1979 August 15th, 2009 5:51 pm.........The bailout was pushed through CONgress by Bush threatening martial law. A few members held out. Most were scared crapless. This is how the Bush family has always done things...blackmail, murder, force and money.
Bush threatening martial law? Don't recall that one. Gotta link to it?
Congress is filled with corporate puppets. We have to take control of the corporations that are pulling the puppet strings first.
Shawn Berry August 15th, 2009 7:14 pm....Try this..If it gets truncated, just google "Bush...martial law bailout..OPED had a good article...................................http://www.opednews.com/articles/Representatives-Were-Threa-by-Patrick-Henningsen-081004-301.html
Look a few posts below, I "un-truncated" it.
"The bailout was pushed through CONgress by Bush threatening martial law."
I remember hearing that...a Congressmen from New England mentioned that, right? Was there any substantial reporting done on it, anywhere?
zmann August 15th, 2009 7:14 pm..OPED news...try this...
http://www.opednews.com/articles/
Representatives-Were-Threa-by-Patrick-
Henningsen-081004-301.html
"99% of those who called Congressman Cleaver on the issue of bailouts to Wall Street opposed the package but he still voted for it."
The "representatives" are corporate puppets. Nothing we do other than voting will change their tunes. We must first take control of the corporations before we can control the representatives and make them do it.
Shawn Berry August 15th, 2009 7:06 pm...........And how do you intend to take control of the corporations? Incidentally, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation. I refer you to usavsus.info
You're looking at it a bit on the wrong side here. My take is this. We do business with corporations and since corporations control Congress more easily than we do, calling Congress won't help much as we've seen before. However, we can stop doing business with corporations that control Congress to be used against us by finding good corporations and smaller businesses to do business with. True, it's a long term effort but Whole Foods CEO Mackey would regret his remarks against single payer if enough customers had left and put the company in financial limbo. That's what I'm talking about.
"Make me."
Nothing but a typical bully's taunt.
The public may pay 0's wages, but the corporations cover his expenses.
"The public may pay 0's wages, but the corporations cover his expenses."
That's why I recommend that we first take control of the corporations. O is just another puppet.
the only way to control the corporations is to put them out of business.
boycott where you can.
Whoo!... Alright!...Babylon...Original.Fire...Happy.Wood.Stock...I Control(Audio Collage.#2)... http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3896970/Meat_Beat_Manifesto
i have written bill nelson D FL several times about health care... the financial industry handling... and 2-3 weeks later get a canned e-mail reply...
can't entirely blame obama... read between the lines... "it's not about me"... and were he to only have one term... won't go away shamed and bitter...
read between the lines... it's like an outsider... saying... we can do this... but it's always the same old same old... partisan bickering... corporate influence...
both on the ARRA and energy and health... left it to the congress to put up a plan... with basic goals and guidelines... what do we get... nibbling around the edges... lot's of media coverage... and at the end of the day... the real players keep their vested interests... or get a little more...
i will say... i'd rather have obama than mccain in there right now... you wouldn't even hear public option... just tax cuts and free market...
short of a million or two showing up on the capitol lawn... and state houses and county seats around the country... i'd love to see every major artery into dc blocked as tight as the new york state thruway during woodstock 40 years ago... THAT would get some attention...
problem is... individuals are widely dispersed... regardless of where you fall on the scale of health coverage... without numbers... you're not listened to... how... can any one individual... or even 100 individuals... compete with $1+M A DAY in lobbying... by PAID PROFESSIONALS... walking distance to congress...
i voted for perot 92... he got 19.8%... but the years since have seen many more americans brainwashed for what passes as mainstream media...
too many may be confused... but... why aren't those CONFUSED getting up an lobbying what they DO want...
instead of the same old... same old... sniping and bickering...
what we'll get... is some cosmetic "reforms"... a few more "insured"... but left intact will be the health care costs that will collectively bankrupt the the general revenues... then the call to repeal social security will trotted out...
it's really an ideology... going back to the 50's... ayn rand... paul weyrich... milton friedman.... playing right into the 2-3-4-5th generation uber wealthy elites who wnat to not only keep what daddy gave them... but a whole lot more...
and you know... they have the cash to do it...
its time for some hard work here folks. even ralph himself said
so. so f the phone calls letters etc. they don't work anymore.
its now time for the public demonstration phase of our
activism . thats all these bastards are going to understand
we have to understand that millions of us are what will get it done! i 've been there and done it and i know it works.
you meet people and make friends that you will never forget
during this process. you will also call these folks friends
the rest of your lives as you will have shared a special
spiritual awakening and find an inner strength that you
didn't know you had in you.it will be a beautiful experience
and we will all be better people as a result of this journey.
another benefit is that we will know how to respond whenever
we see this type of thing happen again and stamp it out quickly
and not let it get traction again.this is democracy on the line
here.
As we expected, Obama has learned from the mistakes the Clintons made in trying to get healthcare reform.
What we didn't expect was that Obama would make far worse mistakes.
Laugh out loud, even though it's not really funny.
Why have the representatives of left - Ralph Nader, Michael Moore, Bill Moyers, MoveOn, the progressive caucus, etc. - been so quiet on this issue? I don't see any of them out there making any real noise. The media is corporate-run and not very open to progressive viewpoints, that's true, but they would have to pay some attention if these people were making news - for example, holding rallies in favor of single payer.
Can't speak for the others, but my take on Moore is that he is still in "first black president" mode. IMO. Those scales haven't fallen from his eyes yet.
He also might be feeling very conflicted about all the shit that's gone down, since he was very strongly supportive of Obama over Hillary AND Nader this time around, whereas last time didn't he support Nader? He would have to backpedal on his original recommendation after realizing Obama is a complete fraud. Maybe he's getting ready to do that, or maybe not.
I hope he's gearing up to say SOMETHING about Obfraud, though, and I don't check his website all that often, so maybe after this piece of shit legislation passes, he'll be on it.
The reason why Ralph Nader could never be president of the United States is that he does not understand how power works here (or at least he pretends it doesn't exits). Yes, utopia would be wonderful - a single payer health care system like that of the rest of the developed world. But, if you look at the fight Barack Obama has trying to push through moderate reforms, can you imagine what it would be like if he hadn't solicited support of the health care industry? While the Republicans seem intent on blocking any reform, at least this measured reform has a better chance of success than a more radical appproach (and believe me, I would love to see something radical). So, with all of the whining about the failure of the Obama presidency to achieve progressive goals, how about a little reality check? Until masses of Americans rise up against the power structure in this country which ensures profits for the rich and powerful while the rest of us get screwed, our leaders are going to be nothing but pawns for the rich and powerful. At least Obama is attempting to push through some reforms that will help those who have no access to insurance or those who are denied insurance because of pre-existing conditions. Personally, if I didn't have health insurance from my employer, I would have died 10 years ago. My insurance is keeping me alive at this point. Why should others be denied that privilege simply because the Obama plan is not "perfect" in the eyes of progressives?
"But, if you look at the fight Barack Obama has trying to push through moderate reforms, can you imagine what it would be like if he hadn't solicited support of the health care industry?"
I disagree, tanguero. I think the Dems' problem is that they simply never want to rock the boat of the status quo. If for once they drew a line in the sand and proposed a radical alternative, to anything at all--whether it meant beginning the pullout in the Middle East TOMORROW or proposing single-payer universal health care, or creating a federal public works/jobs program à la FDR--I think they might get far more popular support than they presently do with their half-assed, timid attempts at "reform" always looking over their shoulders.
Obomber and his minions have already dug their own graves. Escalation in "Af-Pak," Colombia, and who-knows-where next (Iran?). The health care package is a joke. Let it die, like Hillary's plan in the '90s, in the hope that next time around, somebody else might offer the real thing.
"While the Republicans seem intent on blocking any reform,..."
See, this is the kind of thing that makes posting and following threads on sites like CD become really, REALLY tiresome.
I mean, how do we deal with this post -and specifically this quoted statement?
Should we treat it kindly, like the easy mistake of a well-intentioned ally? The tone of much of the post would seem to suggest we do so.
Should we treat it fairly but ironically, like the obvious mistake of one who should know better if they are going to adopt the lecturing tone of the first portion of the post?
Or should we treat it harshly and ruefully, like the disingenuous statement of an enemy who comes here with purposeful lies and twistings of facts to sow confusion and discord?
It is really impossible to know which treatment would be righteous at this point, isn't it? And so the thread teeters on the edge of becoming intolerably tiresome.
Ahh, how I hate/love the Internets.
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-
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Tanguero- whatever else may be true or good in your post, the quote at the top of mine is most certainly NOT. The Repubs, for all the hue and cry and "scaring the Reps. greedy for Re-election" they can get up to, CANNOT "block" any legislation AT ALL in the current Congress. The Dems have an overwhelming majority in the House and a filibuster-proof one in the Senate AND they hold the Executive. They could pass whatever they want. They have no need to compromise with the Repub minority. The leaders of the Dem Party and their useful right wing are the TRUE obstacles to Single-Payer passing this Congress.
Also, Single-Payer is NOT what much of the "rest of the developed world" has. Single-Payer would eliminate much of the profit-sickness in Medicine -but mostly by stauching the wound that Private Insurance has opened. Hospitals and Doctors would still be private enterprises, their profit margins would just be kept in check by the negotiating power of the big "Single-Payer" -the Government. in much of the "rest of the developed world" they have eliminated profits from basic heatlhcare COMPLETELY by adopting Social Medicine, where healthcare is a right and the doctors and hospitals are Government or Social workers and enterprises.
Hope you're not a shill. ;)
-matti.
tanguero August 15th, 2009 3:35 pm
if he hadn't solicited support of the health care industry?
I think the reality check needs to be yours. Why the support of the industry and not the American people? He has directly in everything he does cut out the wants and needs of the people. He is not the voice of change but same old.
Until masses of Americans rise up against the power structure in this country which ensures profits for the rich and powerful while the rest of us get screwed, our leaders are going to be nothing but pawns for the rich and powerful.
Our leaders are sock puppets for the rich and powerful already. Perhaps you were asleep during the DNC and RNC conventions where we the people were put in freedom cages or arrested before events got under way and during the conventions. The police even arrested alternative press so that only corporate news would get it's slant. To suggest that the people rise up is to suggest violence on us by the police.
Personally, if I didn't have health insurance from my employer, I would have died 10 years ago.
I am 60 and have no insurance if something happens I am dead and your Obamabot ideas fall on deaf ears. You have just a little so don't really care if anyone else gets anything at all. So you cowardly suggest they I should rise up against the swat team in the streets. That is so ignorant.
Thank you, Ralph Nader.
You could spot the real change, the man in the White House advocating for the people's business if you saw something like:
"daily public hearings in the Senate and the House on the bureaucratic waste, greed, overbilling, collusion, and fraud..."
Despite Obama's faith in the alleged "savings" being passed by the care-denial industry, Obama has nothing of substance to deliver. If it existed, it would be written into the law, but all he has are vague promises. In the case of the drug industry, they were walking back the promise of $80B the day after it was reported in the news. The promises are vapors.
Where is the legislation limiting by law the percentage that the insurers can keep, which has already ballooned from about 5% to 20%? Where is the legislation that an insurer makes a contract when they agree to collect your premium, and that they must do their due diligence then and not when they discover they are having to pay out on the policy? Or perhaps an industry so dependent on government subsidy should limit its payouts to CEOs. No, it is clear from the stance that the only nod to the public was when congress said, "Our constituents need help obtaining health care." Since then the entire process has been in the service of the constituents who will profit off this new lease on the existing failed system while kickng back a few bucks to their lackeys in Washington.
Our health care system is unsafe at any speed. If we want to know how this "reform" turns out, we need only look at the last "reform" in 2003.
As usual, Ralph Nader speaks truth to the powerless...and the essential truth he utters is, "You are as powerless as you allow yourselves to be."
---------------------------------
I would rather vote for what I want and not get it, than vote for what I don't want and get that. -- Eugene V. Debs
OK, let's assume that Mr.Chomsky is right (which I believe he is.) Real power lies within the economy, the corporate world, not the political.
We can make our voices, actually our dollars, heard/count by living voluntarily simple. Wean ourselves off consumerism and stop throwing our dollars at the feet of corporate giants.
Create a whole new economy: buy locally and work locally, not for corporate employers. This is a long-term, lifestlye solution, but it is a solution!
'lorado'
A very good suggestion with one exception. One would need the participation of a 'very large number' of consumers who would 'withhold their dollars' in order to have the desired effect.
The analogy of the desire to stop 'prostitution' would be better applied here.
The Politicians are the Prostitutes, the members of the Plutocratic Oligarchy are the 'johns'. One can run 'all of the prostitutes off all of the corners, and they will just go somewhere else.
If however one takes the 'johns' to task (or jail) then the prostitutes will be forced to 'give it away' or find other jobs. It is the "johns money" that the prostitutes are after.
Eliminating the "Lobby" would most likely be the most effective approach. They are the 'Pimps and Madams' of the system, and they have grown so bold as to not even be ashamed of their roll. In fact they often hire 'politician/prostitutes' who are not re-elected/or become too 'ugly to even sell their wares in a dark room"----
(now that is UGLY) to be Lobbyists/Pimps/Madams.
The American people would need to begin caring enough to actually do something about their failing political system. And it is my experience that the vast majority of them are far too selfish and self centered to actually want to make their national integrity a matter to take action on.
As it appears now, the likely hood that the Sun will rise in the WEST tomorrow would be more a possibility than for the American people as a whole---to suddenly developed a 'national integrity'.
Actually from my experience and that of my 'people', America and Americans in general have never had a 'national integrity'---
And the way they have been conducting themselves in the rest of the world---the rest of the world has begun to develop the same observation. They all can fear, and rightfully so, the USA, and its Plutocratic Oligarchy it has established the same kind of mind set where ever it goes; and leaves death and destruction behind it.
Good Luck America, you really need it.
I too know the frustration of making my views known to those men who are supposed to represent me in Congress only to be ignored. I now know that I am not the only Progressive that is being ignored by my two Senators and Congressman.
I do understand the feelings of frustration that Jennifer feels because I too feel frustrated and angry. Sometimes when you keep trying and trying and everytime you find yourself banging your head against a brick wall, you know within your heart that to keep doing the same thing over and over and over hoping that this time the results will be different is insane.
I am not saying give up, because anyone who knows me know I am not a quiter, but I am saying we need to find new and creative ways to make our voice heard. Also I think it is time to do a deep house cleaning of Congress. If we continue to have people in our government who ignore WE THE PEOPLE than it is time for WE THE PEOPLE TO VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE.
We have a situation today where those in government do not CARE what the American people want. They only care about CORPORATE AMERICA. That is the truth.
Health care isn't the only issue that the government is ignoring the will of the people. There is mountaintop removal mining that the President and those in Congress choose what is best for Coal Companies over what the WILL of the PEOPLE is.
WE need to do more than just calling which the reality is that our phone calls will continued to be ignored. Maybe if we all got together and we all visited their offices at the same time and they could actually see our faces? By having us all over this country network and visit their offices at the same time they would know that WE THE PEOPLE feel very passionate about this issue.
Democrat or Republican is not the answer to real change that the American People want or desire in this country. We have got to have a real Progressive Party. For me that party is the Green Party.
chrisy58, thank you too for understanding my upset and angry feelings at all this. I generally agree with Nader but I sort of agreed with him but for the different reason. I like what you said about the need to be creative in putting forth new ideas in getting Congress to listen and take us seriously. And what you said about other issues, I think we need to connect them all. The conservatives do it and they win. I wished our side would quit treating them as laundry lists.
Thanks Mr. Nader. We need you more than ever.
Cayetana
Obama is a corporate sock puppet. We can not make him do it because the corporation of the day has it's hand up his .....
frustration grows and grows as obama continues and enhances bushco's reign of pax americana, health care - one of the more progressive issues the prez has tackled has been - as noted above - so thoroughly compromised so as to make it useless
and so it goes
we are not going to get a single payer system and that much is clear.
we are staying in iraq. we are going full bore into afghanistan, we are going to be going into pakistan, murdering and destroying every step of the way
obama is hyper-militarizing colombia with four new bases and steep enhancements of the old ones and i'm guessing that is the preamble to war with all the leftist governments in latin and south america
what's old is new once again
let's face it - we should have voted for ralph and cynthia when we had the chance
We must take control of the corporations that are currently controlling Washington like a puppet.
I too am joining the ranks of those who wish to hell I had voted for Nader.
I'll not scold you for voting Obama. It was a mistake, but a forgivable one that every single one of my friends and loved-ones made. So don't kick yourself to hard for it, you're in rather good company.
All I'd ask is that you carry your new conviction into action this Fall in your local elections and especially in 2010 in your State-wide and Congressional elections. New Parties are not built by quadrennial Prez Campaigns -as Ralph and the Greens have been proving since '96- but by annual and biannual campaigns to the thousands and thousands of "lower" Offices in this country.
I'd also strongly encourage you to run for your local municipal or city Council YOURSELF if there is no candidate that you find worthy. In most States it is far easier to do this than many think. In my State of Washington, 1% of the position's yearly salary will get you on the ballot, in the voter's guide with a short essay of your own composition, AND invited to all of the citizen's and interest-group -sponsored discussions/and debates. This means for between $80 and $200 you can run for most city and county offices and get your ideas out to the entire voting public. Whether they dig them or not, or whether you want to try ans raise/spend more $$ than this is another story.
Anyway, encouragement extended.
-matti.
"let's face it - we should have voted for ralph and cynthia when we had the chance"
Thank you ! I know I voted for Ralph as did a lot of us who voted for him or Mckinney but our votes were canceled by the those of Mccain and Obama. However, knowing that not all of them are total bots, some are forgivable because I'm getting to know them better for what this bloody system has put them through. I just wished they could open their hearts and minds to the issues and not allow party to control their voting. I have to go clear my eyes now. :.(
Thanks for voting third party. :-)
It's really really important to vote third party even though the candidates have no chance of winning. But this is how third (and fourth and fifth) parties get built. They don't arise out of thin air so you can't "wait" for a third party to be "established" before you stop voting for Democrats!!
You have to jump ship from the Democrats NOW and vote third party all the way down the ticket every time you vote. That is the only way to get these corrupt corporate Dems and Republicans out of there.
Ralph Nader has done more for this country than every person in Congress and the White House COMBINED. Mr. Nader, we love you!
I generally vote on the issues more than the party. It's just that I always end up voting 3rd party as a result. Even on local elections, I rarely voted for a Republican or Democrat as a result of voting based on the issues. I haven't dedicated myself to any one particular 3rd party although there is so much about Nader that he did that inspired and even influenced my way of thinking in such a positive way. I used to get so depressed every time Nader lost. You're right. He has done so much for this nation and yet it breaks my heart that our cornfed electorate persecutes him as if the corporate media and the two party duopoly aren't doing enough of that already. :(
Thanks as always to Nader for stating things clearly. But Obobmer's bill already seems so compromised that it seems that the best thing at this point might be to let it die. Indeed his program is so unappealing that there aren't many people out there who want to defend it against the rightwing fearmongers. This is quite unfortunate, since it is precisely this lack of support, in my opinion, that has allowed the Repugs and their hordes of goons the opening they need to drive a distractive wedge into the whole debate. Thus has the whole issue managed to create a divide between disaffected left-leaning people and similarly alienated right-leaning libertarians who had been coming together on many other issues, such as the wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. It's almost as though the distraction was made to order.
Bring America Back !!!!
****If there is still hope for Single Payer, then Mr Nader
gives us the phone numbers and web sites to get active with !
Good effort !
**But, implicit in Nader's recognition of Obama's lie-soaked failures to support grassroots America, in all it's dire needs, is that fact that, after only 7 months we know Team Obama does not deserve another term of Office.
**An innovative approach, an untried path, is needed: Ralph Nader immediately needs to change party affiliations to
Democratic. We need to build a cresendo of grassroots support for the next 3 years for Nader==working from within instead of from the minority Green, or Progressive, or
Independent affiliations he has had!!
**Nader working from within the 2 party structure is the only way to change it !!!! He and We must know that by now, and give reality its due! Can you imagine the uproar, the blue dogs screaming , the core Dumbacrats shrinking into oblivion, and out of the halls of power !! Can we just imagine Nader getting bigger crowds, bigger audiences than Saviour Obama, for the next 3 years, bringing the issues to bear from the Inside of a Democrat==whether or not he gets the big suits approval or Not !!
**Go Democrat Nader, Now. So we can get to work and stop floundering====I guarantee if you do, articles such as
yours here this morn will be on the Times, Post, and Journal.
**America needs you, Mr Nader, to forego the 2-party bad taste and work with us from within rather than from without, and if you do, you will be forgiven for Gore's Defeat !
*****Do we realize, if Gore had been elected, we would have the blue dogged Joseph Lieberman as our Vice Preident, merely the shadow of Dick Cheney. We cannot thank Nader for "W" Bush, but he just may have had something to do with Lieberman's no longer being a Democrat !!! We should make our calls for Single Payer as he suggests, but I'd rather make calls helping form an avalanche, a 3 year typhoon campaign to get a Real Leader into the White House !! Ralph Nader. Make them do it !!!
Go Nader, register Democrat, save America from itself !
I'm with you. It would be nice if he registered Democrat and tried to build a power base within the party. His reputation precedes him and he would be in a unique position to move the party in the direction that it needs to be moved.
No way I am going to second guess my vote for Obama. You would have to be taking high quality drugs to think that things would be better today with McCain as president.
When is the single payer march on DC going to happen? It would be a God send if such an event were planned. I doubt phone calls will do any good in terms of these store bought politicians. A march would be a real problem for them and would help raise awareness with many Americans who don't have the time and/or don't understand the issue. Our corporate owned media seems to be doing an excellent job of spinning this issue to their benefit. It would be nice if we could do something to counter attack.
TruthKnoller August 15th, 2009 12:03 pm....GUARANTEED that Nader will never become a Democrat. He is a man of integrity..it will never happen. He will not compromise and knows he would have to if he joined their cabal.
This is rather sad. Telling Ralph Nader that he should become a democrat after you just pointed out exactly how Untrustworthy the democrats are is like telling an eyewitness to a crime that he should join in with the criminals so they won't do it again.
The real problem here is that so many people in this country are Not paying attention and, as You said, they feel as if they have lost their nation, but they are willing to stick with the very criminals who sold it out from under them. We do NOT have a two party system. We have two faces on one corporate controlled government.
The real solution is for those in the Congress who really are progressive to LEAVE the stupid democrats and republicans behind. Look at Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Since the progressives are ignored by the democrats anyway, they should stand up against that corrupt party. The majority of democrats are delusional liars.
If Joe Lieberman, one of the most retarded, greedy, warmongering pigs on Capitalistic Hill has been allowed to remain within the democrats fold - even after he fought against them to keep his lips securely locked on Bush's ass, I think the democrassness party is pretty much without integrity.
The above bilge is so comically shallow that one hardly knows where to start. Mr 'TruthKnoller' doesn't have the faintest understanding of why Nader left the 2-party system in the first place. Nader wouldn't be the extraordinary figure he is without his integrity & his principles -- and those things would never allow him to join a filthy big-business party like the Democrats.
Belief in the concept of "working from within" is strictly for gullible fools. The US political system possesses a definite internal logic. The basic idea is to make it seem superficially plausible that "change" can be attained by "working from within;" but in reality, powerful mechanisms are in place which guarantee that nothing happens without support from the corporate oligarchy. Therefore, "working from within the system" means agreeing to live permanently under unchallenged corporate rule. Support of EITHER party leads to that result. (That's why they only allow a "choice" between these 2 parties.)
Nader himself is not the issue. He's too old to run for president again, and even if he wanted to run as a Democrat (which would be an unthinkable betrayal of his principles, & thus something he'd never consider), the Democrats would give him the Kucinich/Gravel treatment.
Mr 'TruthKnoller' is under the sad delusion that if Nader became a Democrat, "articles such as [Nader's] here this morn will be on the Times, Post and Journal."
- Sorry, that's not how the world works. Those newspapers are corporate organs. They only print articles which espouse views favorable to corporate interests. They'd black out Nader's views the same way they blacked out Kucinich.
RichM,
I agree with you, sir.
Thank you.
I agree about Mr. Nader's age perhaps hindering him running again, but the man has enormous amounts of energy. I watched the video about him, and he is intellectually and physically in terrific condition! :-) It would not surprise me if he ran again.
Having said that, Mr. Gonzalez can pick up where Nader has left off, and I'm sure Gonzalez can also bring in others who are younger and committed to progressive causes. No worries.
The important thing is this: STOP VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS. You are wasting your vote and asking for the same bullshit corruption, war, and destruction of the working and middle class when you do. Register for a third party - Communist, Socialist, PSL, Green, Workers Party of America - just pick one and register and then start voting third party EVERY TIME YOU VOTE FOR EVERY CANDIDATE.
Third parties become viable AFTER people start voting them in, not before. A third party will NOT magically appear, so voting for Dems while you "wait" for another party is a joke. DO IT NOW. Yes, Republicans might win a few election rounds in the meantime, but you have to stop enabling the Democrats, who are Republicans in practice anyway!
I don't know how ANYBODY could have voted for Obama knowing he would escalate in Afghan. He came right out and said he would send more troops to kill people in Afghanistan during the presidential debate. Came right out and said it. It was disgusting and horrifying. I would never vote for someone who said that.
But I voted for the Commie. :-)
Thanks, RichM.
I came across this quote from Noam Chomsky:
"...as long as you have private control over the economy, it doesn't make any difference what forms [of government] you have, because they can't do anything. You could have political parties where everybody gets together and participates, and you make the programs, make things as participatory as you like -- and it would still have only the most marginal effect on policy. And the reason is, POWER lies elsewhere... if we ever had a popular reform candidate who actually achieved some formal level of power: there would be disinvestment, capital strike, a grinding down of the economy. And the reason is quite simple. In our society, REAL POWER does not happen to lie in the political system, it lies in the private economy: that's where the decisions are made about what's produced, how much is produced, what's consumed, where investment takes place, who has jobs, who controls the resources, and so forth and so on. As long as that remains the case, changes inside the political system can make some difference -- I don't want to say it's zero -- but the differences are going to be very slight."
So true what Chomsky says. So we have a representative government--one that represents corporate interests.
Excellent post!
Thanks for the quote! It says it all, doesn't it?
I pretty much agree with the Chomsky quote, but I believe he overstates a bit. I believe the second to last word ("very") should have been dropped. Do remember, there have been times when real changes have been achieved by our government, such as SS and Medicare. I was also thinking that this quote was aimed more at third world nations, where capital flight can quickly devastate.
Chomsky does NOT overstate. And, the quote is aimed at BOTH Latin America and the US.
So, let me clarify and add some context to the Chomsky quote that Old Peculiar reproduced... I am the one who originally copy n' pasted this Chomsky quote in a previous CD comment. The reason I know this is because I purposely left out about 2 full paragraphs that are between the (...) in the middle of the quote. ("POWER lies elsewhere... if we ever had a popular reform candidate")
I got this quote from "Understanding Power, The Indispensable Chomsky" Page 62-63. This book is a Q and A format. The lead in to this particular topic was about democracy under capitalism, social planning, and how capitalism and social planning have "fundamentally different interests."
The question asked in regards to the quote was, "Then what kind of mechanism for social planning do you think would work? Obviously you're not too sanguine about our current form of government."
Chomsky answers (and this works into the beginning of the quote) "Well, there's nothing wrong with the FORM - I mean, there are SOME things wrong with the form - but what's really wrong is that the SUBSTANCE is missing. Look, as long as you have private control..."
The 2 paragraphs that I chose to omit talk about a real case that happened in Latin America. He says, "Well, when popular reform candidates in Latin America get elected and begin to introduce reforms, two things typically happen. One is, there's a military coup supported by the United States. But, suppose that doesn't happen. What you get is capital strike - investment capital flows out of the country, there's a lowering of investment, and the economy grinds to a halt." Chomsky goes a bit further into an example of Nicaragua in 1980's and how the problem is, "the wealthy would prefer NOT to invest unless they have political power." Then he finishes the paragraph with, "I mean, these guys (wealthy) hate democracy as much as Congress hates democracy: they want the political system to be in the hands of wealthy elites, and when it is again, then they'll call it 'democracy' and they'll resume investing, and the economy will finally start to function again."
Chomsky goes on to say (which works into the second part of the quote), "this same thing would happen here if we ever had a popular reform candidate who actually achieved some formal level of power: there would be disinvestment..." He says, "In fact, if you think through the logic of this, you'll see that so long as power remains concentrated, everybody, EVERYBODY, has to be committed to one overriding goal: and that's to make sure that the rich folk are happy - because unless they are, nobody else is going to get anything." He uses an example of how if a state were to raise taxes on a big business that the big business would create a PR campaign stating that if they do raise taxes on them that it will hurt jobs, investment, and how there will be a loss of business confidence, and that the big biz will simply move to a new state that offers better tax rates. (This talk was before NAFTA - April 1989 - so now big biz just takes their capital overseas)
In essence, they (big biz and the wealthy) use their private power to get what they want because "they own the place" so don't piss em off with reforms that step on their feet. That is a fact, and that is where the REAL POWER lies.
- The 2 significant changes you mention, SS and Medicare, occurred under very different conditions, where the US ruling elite was compelled to make significant class concessions. They only made these concessions because they were forced to; and because they saw that longer-term, it was in their interests to do so. These things would never have happened without terrific pressure being placed on the ruling class. Such pressure is completely absent today.
SS was passed during the Great Depression, when there was a powerful militant labor movement, as well as a global collapse of capitalism. Medicare was passed in the 1960's, in the thick of the Cold War competition for the "hearts and minds" of the rest of the world. In that situation, there was a propaganda advantage in being able to boast that the US model of capitalism could provide medical care for retirees.
The fact that the US govt passed these 2 programs in the distant past, when they 1) really had no choice, and 2) only did so because it was in the long-term interests of the oligarchy, is no reason for believing that the US govt of today is capable of any such significant reform. In fact, examining the details of why and how SS & Medicare were passed gives us a reason to believe that the US government is no longer capable, under current conditions, of that kind of significant social reform.
Exactly. I always try to tell people so "proud" of our progress which came from SS and medicare that these are what I call "rubber band" reforms. When they get passed, it's like stretching a rubber band against the prevailing corporate interests. Immediately work is begun on many fronts to dilute any benefit to the people so the programs eventually return the "rubber band" to the slack position. SS has retained some benefit through the boundless ingenuity of the poor and elderly to stretch a buck. Real inflation has actually given a regular pay cut to SS recipients every year since the 50s. The CPI inflation numbers are always set below the real thing.
The elite will promise anything to get the people off their back but it's always a lie. Hopefully, most people get it now. Expect a fake populist third party to pop up. I'm relying on Ralph Nader, Kucinich and the like to alert us about this.
Frances Perkins, the Secretary of Labor, remained with FDR throughout his presidency, and she championed countless progressive issues. Without her, I'm not sure that the New Deal would have been as successful. She also wanted to pass national health care legislation.
Its important not to get lost in the "good leader/bad leader" hero-class personality game. I'm sure FDR's Secretary of Labor made an important contribution to implementing these programs, but RichM was pointing out the forces behind their implementation in the first place.
Social Security is great. But it only exists because of social, political, and economic Movements among the people which were ready, willing, and able to go much FARTHER than that. Social Security is the COMPROMISE, just as Single-Payer properly is. The difference between the time when Social Security was created and now with Single-Payer is that the Movements that forced the first compromise on the Establishment (if you will) are either not around or too weakened to force the second compromise.
This is also why Social Security didn't evolve into the general Social Safety Net (including Social Medicine) in the U.S. while similar (and even copy-cat) programs in Europe did do so. The Movements that sparked the initial compromise in the U.S. were fading and unable to carry out the intended evolusion and expansion of the program here, but were strengthening and able to do so in much of Europe.
Politics works by first making demands, then showing your power, then comparing that power with others' who have different demands, then compromising based on those power equations.
In other words, if what we as a "Movement" are demanding is Single-Payer, then unless our power is so startingly overwhelming as to completely CRUSH all others', we will ALWAYS get something LESS than Single-Payer from the compromise phase.
The fact is, for proper leftists, Single-Payer IS the compromise that we should be willing to accept. Which means that we should be demanding something to the "left" of that, like Social Medicine or National Health. Which would then allow us to back down from this after everyone's power is shown and compromise at Single-Payer.
On Health Care Reform, even the best of the U.S. Left has once again made the mistake of "pre-compromising" -attempting to guess the end compromise position that works best for us, and fight for THAT, instead of our true wish, as a matter of "practicality".
This mistaken attitude is one feature that has differentiated the U.S. Left from the European Left and others since the post Russian Revolution period to some extent, to a greater one post-WWII, and more and more completely since 1968.
Another difference lies in the U.S.Left's failure to realize that militant Mass Movements -with a clear and unified GOAL (that's for the '60s people)- are the ONLY reliable power that the Left can bring to the compromise phase.
Even Nader is sometimes guilty of this failure. Telephone calls? Will that really be enough? Guess we'll see, huh?
Have Fun,
-matti.
P.S. Remember that Politics is a Machine. It is an artificial contruct of Humankind. It therefore has rules and mechanisms governing its operation. Even if I have decribed these rules somewhat wrongly, the rules still exist. Violations of the rules -such as what I've termed "pre-compromise" will ALWAYS result in unsatisfactory results. Just as putting a low-octane fuel in your gas tank will always result in poorer engine performance.
Matti is absolutely right! I said this same thing in a previous article. Ballots are simply paper substitutes for bullets. If we actually have the numbers and the ballot hasn't worked, demonstrating the number via a threat of the bullet makes a world of difference.
What kills me is that in Fortress Amerika, people look down on those who would use counter-violence to stop oppression but, around the world, people prove every day that it works. In France, if a company was to close a plant and put thousands out of work with no severance or real unemployment assistance, not only would some 'boss' probably get beaten or killed but, there would be millions of working class compatriots out in the streets and behind the barracades. They shut the entire system down when even one group of union members go on strike. I think the French do it these days just to remind the government who's really in charge. Oh, but we can make fun of them. What a joke.
Matti mentioned that there are rules to politics. One major and most important rule is that numbers really do count. I don't mean numbers of phone calls but, actual bodies willing to get down and dirty to get what they need. This counts. We'll see how effective Mr. Nader's request to call our congresscritter or sinator will be.
As someone who has worked at the state level in the Democratic party I can tell you that Nader calling himself a Dem will not help get him elected. Party politics is set up to get local and grassroots volunteers to do the work while the "party heads" actually do exactly as they please with the resulting contributions. Never did I see them actually change course in any meaningful way... in fact in 1992 when there was a viable candidate with support of over 50% of our state and an incredible influx of new people and energy in support of change - the party "leaders" sabotaged and end-ran the newly committed activists to make sure that their change was ignored/denigrated/demeaned. They actually went so far as to make sure the reps for change to the national meetings were never called on, or given any committee membership (read VOICE)throughout their two year stint!
As much as I agree that Nader has answers - Neither party will ever give him their support or voice - They will block him at every opportunity, and if he ever made the mistake of trying to work from the inside... they would silence him as a matter of policy.
Live Simply So That Others May Simply Live
There are only 60 Congressional Representatives signed on for HR 676 and only two labor groups (California Nurses and the Sheetmetal workers) supporting single payer. We need to make the phone calls to Congress, but we also need to pressure our labor organizations to heed the voice of their members and support HR 676.
We also must remember the vote of our elected officials on health care reform. If your Rep does not vote YES on HR 676 I plea that you NEVER VOTE FOR THAT PAID MERCENCARY OF THE CORPORATIONS AGAIN.
If you are a loyal Democrat---rethink your position. Did your Rep vote to continue and expand the wars? Did your Rep vote for the Wall St bankster bailout? (you are in debt to the tune of $42,105.00 for the finacial bailout) If you vote for that person again you must be brain dead.
We are now in debt, each of us -- to the tune of $42,105.
Interesting -- I was just thinking about that number -- $42,105. Not long ago, I read an article that made the arugument that the $42,000 should have been sent out to each and every citizen of this country, instead of shoveled into the abyss, as a total number in the trillions -- $24, to be exact. At the time of the article, I think the number was at $13 or $14 trillion.
The author made the point that the $42,000, if it had gone to "we the people," instead of the banksters, the amount would have saved most people from the weight of their debt, and would have given "we the people" a little time to breathe -- if we found ourselves amongst the unemployed, and/or partially owning a house that wasn't worth as much as what the mortgage payment demanded.
But no, banksters FIRST, "we the people" --- far down the list.
BTW, I just made my phone calls!
My Rep - Henry (the so-called Mustache of Justice) Waxman voted 'yes' to the questions in your final paragraph. He's been in there for 17 long terms (since 1975) and he runs UNOPPOSED.
Now what? ('Representative democracy', indeed!)
Then you should run against him in 2010.
""Make me do it" was the advice of Franklin Delano Roosevelt to reformers when faced with legislation he desired but did not have the votes for in Congress."
THANK YOU ! From the moment Obama won the presidency and gave his victory speech, he and his bot brains have repeated the "make me do it" mantra to evade leadership responsibility. Not only that but they're also trying to make it look like the Democrats are being controlled by the GOP on votes even when the Democrats have a filibuster proof majority but are inventing lame brained excuses for playing kissyface with the GOP !
Never before have we had such an abusive leader tell the public to "make him do it" and then go right behind closed doors and show what a corporate slut he really is for Big Insurance/Pharma ! I've written and emailed enough letters to my representative and two senators and with no responses or very lame corporatist responses, I think enough already for the most part. My representative is a hardcore Republican who has shown his anti-single payer hatred. I guess I should have stayed in the city instead of moved to the suburbs for slightly better representation. But I don't know because it doesn't matter who's the rep. They all dial for the same corporate dollars.
And let's face it. Whether unemployed or employed, chances are most people are busy working longer hours because they might get let go off or their desperately trying to find another job sooner because the longer they're unemployed, the tougher it is to get their next job. I'm lucky to work from home up until the end of summer but even I don't know my fate as to whether I'll be as lucky to get enough time to even read here let alone post. I'm tired of trying to convince pols who are already "fixed" puppets for Big Money. We can talk all we want about "democracy" but for paying our taxes, don't you agree that the burden of responsibility lies on those pols instead of just us when it comes to enacting legislation?
Of COURSE the burden of responsibility lies with the pols. And the lobbyists know that only losers think that pols are going to do their jobs. Get real. YOU have to do something, not wait for them!
Please, you sound reasonable, but you unfortunately haven't learned that if you leave anything to "them" it won't happen!
Excuse me but at some point our attempts can only go so far. Pols have a R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y. Why should I pay them taxes to do their DIRTY WORK?
Jennifer,
I agree with every one of the points you discuss in your very well-written post. By now, I have no idea how many letters I have written to my senators, and my representative over the past couple of years -- on this very subject, as well as on countless other issues. Like you, I haven't received responses from them. In addition, I have signed one petition after another, as they have dropped into my e-mail box. Like you, I have made phone calls. I will make another phone call, and I hope that it makes a difference, but as far as I'm concerned, there seems to be less than a thread of hope. I HOPE I'm wrong!
"They all dial for the same corporate dollars." -- Exactly!!
As for "Make Me Do It" -- if that were true, Obama, or someone within the workings of this group of activists, would have organized his e-mail base, and that could make a difference, too. But, as far as I know, that is not happening! Obama is a "master of deception," speaking out of both sides of his mouth, sometimes within the same speech. However, most of my friends are still enamored, despite evidence to the contrary.
BTW, where is MoveOn on the issue of health care? Long ago, I took my name off their list, after becoming very disillusioned with some of their choices of action, or, I should say, inaction. For me, they were a big disappointment. MoveOn, too, has a list of names, and e-mail contacts that could be helpful. I'm curious if anyone knows if that have activated their list for this issue.
"We the People" are weary in our bones! Most of us have been spending every possible waking hour trying to keep informed, contacting our elected officials on a VARIETY of crucial issues, signing petitions, marching and attending rallies whenever possible, etc. If my actions, even once, made a serious difference, I could re-energize, but, time-after-time, I feel marginalized, and helpless, as if I am invisible, unseen and unheard.
I'm leaving you to make those phone calls!
Jennifer and Kay,
I agree also. Last year, my representative Cleaver voted yes for the bailout bill even when 99% of those who contacted him voiced strong opposition to it.
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/elections-politics-politics-political-parties/12100254-1.html
Asked about it, he says out of "fear and education" !
But who am I kidding, he was reelected with 64% of those who voted in the district and I was one of those fools. Maybe we need to also focus on who we want to really represent us the next time we choose who to send to Washington to represent us.
Stanley1979,
I understand your frustration!
I think several people have mentioned that it's important to begin to consistently vote 3rd party, regardless.
In the last election, I voted for Ralph Nader. In NY state, I have been voting for 3rd party candidates for senate, representative, etc. Still, the incumbents have the edge -- they are already in the seat.
I also wonder where MoveOn is on the antiwar front.
The antiwar faction in this country is essentially dead. That happened after the "Democrat" got elected. They are nowhere to be found.
Many many "progressives" are imperialists. They support empire building, racism, killing innocent civilians, and escalations in aggression and war if it is "their" guy who is doing it. Bill Clinton's presidency was a good example of this.
Jeevee
All we'd have to do, as a nation, is to stop telling other countries what to do with THEIR problems.
PEACE
As Jesus truly said, "You cannot worship both God and money!"
Oh for God's sake, if you're too tired to make a phone call the LEAST you can do is STOP DISCOURAGING the rest of us!
Would you two get a room or something. You are both right. Keep it up.
laffingbear? Now that makes me laff ! LOL ! Ok, just kidding. But what's your point?
I don't think Jennifer's doing what you think she's doing.
Oh for God's sake, you sound like an Obamabot ! I'm not discouraging anyone. There are those of us who've already done all that and look what happened? I'm just pointing out what has happened so far and I even mentioned that I'd give it one more go but only because 676 will finally get a vote. If we had people like Ralph Nader in the White House and pols similar to him in Congress, we the people wouldn't be burdened with having to "make him do it". How do you like paying Congress to do their dirty work? "Happy" now ?!?
Bring America Back !!!!.........!....You're right JB, of course !
....But, Please read my post above. If you want to behold a modern day avalanche, just convince Ralph Nader to register Democratic, then watch a whole bunch of
Us Unhappy Progs show America just what Reform means !!!
****Look, Nader just can't win as a minority candidate, his many attempts and
failures belie this conclusion. But, if he swallows some bad fish and works
from within the system, I guarantee you a massive tumult for the next three years, and an upset in the next Election !
***Can you just, Imagine, yep like Lennon, giving Peace a chance, giving us free
meds care simply as human citizens, getting sanity back to the White House and
Congress. Nader getting bigger crowds than Obama, more TV News Conferences,
more solutions, Stop War Pledges, watch us go, man !! Dudes !!
***My other suggestion was for Dennis Kucinich to register as Progressive, but
then can he face getting re-elected from his own home state ? Ralph Nader does NOT have that problem . GO Nader, GO Democratic !!!! Can you just even think that they would dare to keep a Democratic Nader off of a Presidential Campaign Debate Panel, as they did to Kucinich ???? And, Nader cannot get there as a 'Green'.
Today, in the spirit of WOODSTOCK, imagine Nader as our next Democratic President.
That is a bold idea and I think it would change the political landscape.
Nader is doing the best he can do now encouraging People to speak to the leaders in charge.
He is showing LEADERSHIP!
We all need to get more involved, private citizens and leaders and let them know the heat of public opinion that is changing daily.
There's a disconnect in what you've written. Perhaps you can clarify why it would be good for Nader to accept a (D) label, and for DK to abandon it.
If Nader's politics aren't good enough by themselves, and DK's aren't good enough even WITH the (D) label, then what makes you believe making your suggested change would suddenly remove the relentless corporate opposition they both face?
Exactly so. Especially the one million phone calls idea. I'm making a few on Monday.
Two-thirds of Americans want a single-payer system, and that's in spite of the industry PR campaign and AstroTurf actions.
Let's make Congress do what we, the vast majority, want. Make your phone calls!
"Let's make Congress do what we, the vast majority, want. Make your phone calls!"
Good luck with that. We tried that on stopping the 700b bailout last year and look where all that went. I'll give it one more stab but only because for once Congress is set to vote for 676.
Surprisingly enough, my Congresswoman, a Democrat, and my Democratic senator both voted against TARP...I called their offices to thank them for it.
There was no two-thirds majority opposing the bail out.
It would be better if you had some vague idea of what you're talking about. Actually, public opposition to the bailout last fall
was overwhelming. By some measures, it was something like 95%, and in all cases was easily 2/3.
Try Googling on words like "bank bailout opposition public" and you'll get several hundred thousand hits. These include:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/federal_bailout/april_2009/most_americans_say_...
"... In September, right after Lehman Brothers collapsed, just seven percent (7%) of voters thought the federal government should use taxpayer funds to keep a large financial institution solvent. Sixty-five percent (65%) said the companies should file for bankruptcy. A week later, following Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson’s appeal for a $700 billion bailout, support increased a bit but only to 28%. The more voters learned about the plans, the more opposition grew...."
http://www.economyincrisis.org/articles/issues?i=Government+Bailout
"....many legislators reported receiving overwhelming constituent communication voicing opposition to the bill. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) said he received roughly 2,000 letters, emails or phone calls per day pertaining to the bailout, 95 percent of which were negative...."
That's right. The bailout was opposed by Amerikans by like 98% of the people. It was astounding.
Supposedly these legislators got more calls, emails, and faxes AGAINST the bailout than they had with any other issue in MODERN HISTORY.
Yes, Obfraud went and pushed for the bailout, and they all supported it.
Thank you RichM. Sometimes, I get so sick and tired of people saying that we're not doing enough to make the pols do it. I also realize that some things are beyond our control and that's where the pols' responsibilities come into play. I wished more people were smart like you.
But there was a strong enough majority and it's beyond just the polls.
One reads this excellent by Ralph Nader and thinks of the paradox of a Michael Moore whose film Sicko brilliantly documented the health crisis in this country while also noting the rapacious nature of the insurance companies. But while clearly advocating a single payer system in this country Moore inexplicably backed Obama during the 2008 campaign knowing full well that Obama not only rejected a single payer system [while even now proclaiming that it is off the table] but also wished, as Nader correctly points out, to keep the insurance companies and their profit making ways in his health care plan for Americans.
As Nader writes, it is now up to Americans to call their representatives in the faint hope that they may actually listen to their constituents. The irony is that while the fanatics of the far right accuse Obama of being too tough on health care, those on the left are not doing enough to tell Obama and their representatives that single payer should be an option that should be most definitely on the table.
"Moore inexplicably backed Obama during the 2008 campaign knowing full well that Obama not only rejected a single payer system [while even now proclaiming that it is off the table] but also wished, as Nader correctly points out, to keep the insurance companies and their profit making ways in his health care plan for Americans."
Michael Moore has become a very wealthy man. And, he continues to make money off of his films. Don't get me wrong -- I don't begrudge him a good living. He's a very creative guy, and he should, for his hard work, earn a very good living.
Personally, I thought that Michael Moore, and his producers, should have offered the film, SICKO, to PBS to broadcast -- at this point, free of charge. This idea came to me when I was listening to an interview by Bill Moyers with Wendell Potter, on his Journal. Maybe, some of you saw the program. Mr. Potter is an ex-employee of the health industry company, CIGNA. Now, Mr. Potter is speaking out about the injustice of the health care industry, and has also testified before congress about his inside knowledge. In the interview with Bill Moyers, Mr. Potter stated that Michael Moore, with his film SICKO, had "hit the nail on its head," so to speak. In other words, Michael's film told the truth.
An interesting panel would be Ralph Nader, Wendell Potter, Michael Moore, and Bill Moyers as the moderator/interviewer. And, the film, SICKO, could be broadcast -- as educational, and a gift to the public interest. Anyone who has a TV could tune in -- PBS is available to the public. Of course, some PBS stations might not choose to sign onto the venture, but unlike ShowTime, where the film is now shown, "we the people" could have access. Maybe, the program could be streamed on the Internet so more people could tune in.
I'm just thinking of ways to make noise, out-of-the-box, but I have no contacts with any of these people, and the idea might not be feasible, either. However, if the event came to pass, it would be a huge news-getter!
I also thought that Al Gore should do the same thing with his film about the environment -- An Inconvenient Truth.
How about strategically giving away several million bare-bones DVD, simply packaged copies of the (SICKO) film? Also, grant the right to free showings so many others could see it?
Look, these things cost pennies to make...PENNIES. Given the stakes, seems like Moore and his buddies in the film industry could take one for the team, and saturate the land with this important message.
As for Ralph Nader, I shudder to think what we'll do when he's gone. I can't fathom an America without him.
Thank you Ralph for all of your work over the years.
Gotta know where to look :-)
http://freedocumentaries.org/theatre.
php?filmid=133&id=966&wh=1000x720
I shared this site with my progressive/activist student org from college, they should make good use of it. You should do the same...Netflix is useful for documentaries too, and the cheapest plan is less than $10 a month, depending on taxes.
Jeevee
EXCELLENT IDEAS! NOW LET'S PUT THEM INTO ACTION!!!
"The irony is that while the fanatics of the far right accuse Obama of being too tough on health care, those on the left are not doing enough to tell Obama and their representatives that single payer should be an option that should be most definitely on the table."
That depends on which "left" you're referring to. There's a fake "left" and then a real one. The fake one loudly opposes the Republicans and yet when push comes to shove, supports their policies because a Democrat is doing them.
Maybe the real left might not be doing enough but it's also possible that they've done everything they could but little more can be done from their end. I've met plenty of people who support single payer or at least describe what they would want health care reform to be like closely resembling single payer but life isn't always easy for them. Some people have to work longer hours or spend more time helping their family out because something's up in the family. I may be a single woman free to talk and bug my reps when my work load doesn't get too heavy on a given day but if I get married the next day and even become a mother, it will be virtually impossible for folks like myself to bug our representatives to do the right thing. Nader is correct up to a point that we need to hold our reps' feet to the fire by sending them a message (phone, email, or mail) but at some point the pols have to show their part. Why should we pay them taxes to "make them do it" ?
It's not a "faint hope" if we all do it. It's as easy as making a phone call. One million phone calls will work.
Hell, let's have 1 million phone calls every bloody day...that's if you can tear comatose Americans from the crap on TV.
By the way, am I the only one who seems to sense that Brrack Obama appears strangely detached, without emotion, even as he holds these "townhall" meetings on health care reform?
Bet'cha twenty he's drugged up. ;)
Nicely said Ralph.
When it comes to the visionary left: Nader, McKibben, Hedges, and Goodman, Obama puppets the refrain, "Make us do it." But when it comes to the parade of his corporate handlers through the White House, Obama asks, "How much do I write the check for?"
Where is the moron RSJ who a few months back was asserting Obama was for single payer?
RSJ?