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TechnoratiDon't Fix Wall Street, Replace It
Why not an economy of real wealth?
The current economic debate centers on how best to revive our existing economic system through some combination of a Wall Street bailout and a job-creating economic stimulus package. That amounts to trying to revive an economic system that has failed in every dimension: financial, social, and environmental. Rather than prop up a failed system, we should use the current financial crisis as the opportunity to create a system that works. Trying to solve the crisis with the same tools that caused it is the definition of insanity.
As individuals, we humans appear to be an intelligent species. Collectively, however, our behavior ranges from supremely wise to suicidal. Our current collective economic insanity is the product of an illusion-a belief, cultivated by the prevailing economic orthodoxy, that money is wealth and that making money is the equivalent of creating wealth.
Money is merely an accounting chit with no intrinsic value-it is useless until we exchange it for something of real value. Wall Street's specialty is creating money for rich people without the exertion of producing anything of corresponding real value. They increase their claims against real wealth without increasing the supply of goods, making it harder for the rest of us to meet our needs.
Real wealth is, first of all, the tangible things that support life-food, shelter, clothing. Of course, the most valuable forms of real wealth are those that are beyond price: love; a healthy, happy child; a job that provides a sense of self-worth and contribution; membership in a strong, caring community; a healthy vibrant natural environment; peace. Our Wall-Street-driven economic system makes fantastic amounts of money and actively destroys all these many forms of real wealth.We have been in thrall to a pervasive cultural story, continuously reinforced by academics, government officials, and corporate media, which led us to believe our economy was functioning splendidly even when it was quite literally killing us. You have heard this story many times:
"Economic growth, as measured by Gross Domestic Product, creates the wealth needed to provide material abundance for all, increase human happiness, end poverty, and heal the environment. The faster we consume, the faster the economy grows and the wealthier we become as the rising tide lifts all boats."
The logical conclusion from this story is that the faster we convert useful resources to toxic garbage, the richer we are. The only true beneficiaries of this obviously stupid idea are a few very rich people who reap financial gains from every economic transaction-whether the transaction cures a disease or clearcuts a rainforest. It is a system that deifies money and dilutes wealth.
In contrast, the Main Street economy is comprised of local businesses and working people who produce real goods and services to meet the real wealth needs of their communities. It has been battered and tattered by the predatory intrusions of Wall Street corporations, but it is the logical foundation on which to build a new, real wealth economy of green jobs and green manufacturing, responsible community-oriented businesses, and sound environmental practices.
Let Wall Street corporations and their phantom wealth machine slip into the abyss of their own making. Devote our public resources to building and strengthening Main Street businesses and financial institutions devoted to creating real wealth in service to their local communities.
53 Comments so far
Show AllAnd the sweet part about it is that we don't even have to actively bring down the rotten system, WE CAN SIMPLY IGNOR IT AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY.
CHOOSE TO WITHDRAW SUPPORT FROM THE PIRATES AND ROBBERS.
WHAT IF THEY GAVE A WAR AND NOBODY CAME...?
who was it that said: "IF THE YOUNG PEOPLE REFUSED TO GO TO WAR, regardless of conscriptions, THERE WOULD BE NO WARS which are HATCHED BY THE OLD MEN".
there was also i think someone who said: "how i hate the OLD MEN and WOMEN who hatch and dream up wars for the young to kill and die for them".
it is amazing how it is the ADULTS that CORRUPT the YOUTH by instilling in them ideas of WAR and "competing" and "winners" rather than cooperation and sharing.
it is amazing how it is ADULTS that hatch ideas of "heroism" based on WARS to feed the young to emulate and glorify.
How About Public Ownership Of Banking & Finance
"Why?"
"Privatized public services is an oxymoron."
"Based on?"
"Greed."
Readers might also be interested in my Nolan Chart column, "Wealth, Illth, Money, and the Financial Crisis":
http://www.nolanchart.com/article5480.html
--
Dan Clore
Smygo: News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Eyrie of the Arch-Anarch:
http://www.nolanchart.com/author341.html
Great article. I've been saying this for the last few weeks; Obama is trying to save a rotten, parasitic system -- let it die. Invest our money instead in a real productive economy. Pull together a national service to rebuild and restructure national power grid and transport systems. Invest government money in businesses that provide physical production creating good paying jobs here in the US. The taxes paid will provide a return on that investment. To hell with debt shuffling scams, we don't need them.
The Jaded Prole
I just ran into this -- very interesting:
"This is another brilliant Adam Curtis documentary originally produced for the BBC. It talks about the modern political realities, where the policies came from and the massive failures of those ideals and how they have ended up exactly where they did not want to be. This episode starts in the Cold War and shows the seeds that were sown to produce the modern political reality. adam curtis, documentary, islam, politics, usa, uk, freedom, liberty"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8420724845321066025&hl=en
Politics - "The Trap" - Part 1 of 3
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=404227395387111085&ei=To2WSfStHYnS-AGYkMWNBA&q=the+trap&hl=en directly downloadable
follow the links for the other 2 parts (3 parts total).
The issue is not the countless strategies and good ideas.
Its FOCUS and action. That's the real challenge. How do we engage the right intellects to devise the evolutionary strategies that will bring about the change that so many of us hope for.
Perhaps we should donate to a world gathering of a group the will formulate a focused set of strategies for our CLIMATE, ECONOMY, PEACE, THE HEALTH OF OUR PLANET.
Strategies that engage investors and individuals in a way that will bring about the changes we need in an intelligent way. A grass roots deliberate movement.
We want PEACE. We have international laws. We have a United Global Forum. Yet we fail, because we cannot FOCUS our effort so that the UN acts on the majority interest by holding leaders accountable for their actions. Israel, GAZA and SUDAN are all failure points because the UN failed to uphold LAW on our behalf.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=47890872209
We have some great ideas that we believe will reduce harm to our ECONOMY. No FOCUS and in the language of the common man.
An intelligent commonly agreed strategy presented in ways that can be understood is vital. We are all affected and we all need to be engaged. Full employment through enterprise bargaining (market regulated and government facilitated) and Collaboration to reduce prices by production efficiencies may be grass root actions that will help.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=55648129648
CLIMATE. Its a global issue if we cannot unite under one strategy what hope is there.
FOCUS - UNITY - CARING - SHARING are whats required. Humankind's greatest moments come when we give of ourselves for others. It's then that our eyes are brightest. It's then we experience JOY (not happiness). Life all of a sudden becomes richer.
We have the potential we lack focused leadership that engages us all.
BILL MOYERS: Both the "Wall Street Journal" and "The New York Times" reported this week that Obama's top two political aides, Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod, have pushed for tougher action against the banks. But they didn't prevail. Obama apparently sided with Geithner and the Treasury Department in using a velvet glove.
SIMON JOHNSON: What I read from that is that there is an unnecessary and excessive deference to the experts, or the supposed experts.
And I think the view that a lot of people have in Washington - I live in Washington, I follow this very closely - the view is that you need to rely on the technocrats. And the technocrats are saying, "This is the way to go, and you mustn't be too tough on because banks, because that will have adverse consequences for credits, and for the economy, and for unemployment," and so on and so forth. Those technocrats, if that's what they're saying, are wrong. That is not the right way to deal with this crisis.
There are many fine professionals at Treasury with great experience, who have spent their lives working on important issues related to the United States. What we face right now is not a typical U.S. issue. We face a crisis, and the president said this on Monday night, the president said, President Obama said, "We've never seen anything like this since the Great Depression."
Therefore, nobody working now, you know, has any firsthand experience. And he also said, "We may face what we call a lost decade." We've never seen that anywhere other than Japan in the 1990s, right?
And something for Treasury officials to really understand, and to really understand the alternatives - they're not, I mean, with all due respect to them, they're not the ultimate authority. I don't think they're the right people.
The correct people you should be asking this question to are people at the IMF. And I can tell you what they're saying is the policy that we seem to be persuing, of being nice to the banks, is a mistake. The powerful people are the insiders. They're the CEOs of these banks. They're the people who run these banks. They're the people who pay themselves the massive bonuses at the end of the last year. Now, those bonuses are not the essence of the problem, but they are a symptom of an arrogance, and a feeling of invincibility, that tells you a lot about the culture of those organizations, and the attitudes of the people who lead them.
BILL MOYERS: Geithner has hired as his chief-of-staff, the lobbyist from Goldman Sachs. The new deputy secretary of state was, until last year, a CEO of Citigroup. Another CFO from Citigroup is now assistant to the president, and deputy national security advisor for International Economic Affairs. And one of his deputies also came from Citigroup. One new member of the president's Economic Recovery Advisory Board comes from UBS, which is being investigated for helping rich clients evade taxes...
BILL MOYERS: So here's the trillion dollar question that I take from your blog, that I read at the beginning, quote, "Can this person," your new economic strategist, in this case Geithner, "really break with the vested elite that got you into this much trouble?" Have you seen any evidence this week that he's going to be tough with these guys?
SIMON JOHNSON: I'm trying to be positive. I'm trying to be supportive. I like the administration. I voted for the president. The answer to your question is, no, I haven't seen anything. But you know, perhaps next week I will. But right now, as we speak, I have a bad feeling in my stomach.
My intuition, from crises, from situations that have improved, the situations that got worse, my intuition is that this is going to get a lot worse. It's going to cost us a lot more money. And we are going down a long, dark, blind alley.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02132009/watch.html
David Korten is focusing on the root of humanity's many problems, concentration of the people's wealth in elite hands. This focus is key because it allows us to address all problems with a unified solution, localism, which he also articulates. Localism takes the power/wealth away from the elites, allowing the people to build societies guided by their own better senses and interests. If we want to contribute to the solution rather than contribute to the many problems, we have to shift our support away from the elites and toward our local communities.
Might this lead to more of the same problems after local communities rush to compete with each other for domination? No because domination is not localist, and the perpetrators will be ostracized from the community of communities. Will the need for self-determination weaken commitments to localism in favor of other ideas? We have a right to self-determination but not at the expense of universal well-being. So we have to effectively demonstrate the benefits of localism in the K-12 civics curricula and other channels. Students can play "devil's advocate" and try to poke holes in the system, explore alternatives, experiment, study past experiments (e.g. the current catastrophes), and propose changes.
Localism keeps the material production and thus economic/political power in the hands of the people. Only the people can achieve maximum well-being for themselves. The success of any society depends on recognition of the people's better interests and understanding of how to support them. Only the people can achieve this. Korten describes the people's better interests in his article. Localism best supports the people's interests by giving them a REAL stake in the system, REAL ownership, involvement, responsibility.
rtdrury,
Are you familiar with the COMMON GOOD BANK? This is for real and you can get involved.
"Common Good Finance is a collaboration of many organizations led by Society to Benefit Everyone, Inc."
-Profits go to local schools and nonprofits.
-Depositors decide what the bank should invest in.
-Free local credit card processing for local businesses.
-Micro-loans for new businesses and community projects.
-A full range of secure, FDIC-insured banking services.
-Committed to sustainability and economic justice.
http://www.commongoodbank.com/index.html
David Korten is focusing at the root:
EMPIRE and DOMINATION
The few over the many. 5,000 years is enough.
www.GreenCPA.blogspot.com
Plant a garden, put windows on South side, store food for winter, install composting toilet, etc...we haven't much time to get ready.
The most cogent and real piece of advice in this whole thread.
If we don't trust ourselves to do what we need to do, despite all we've seen and continue to see, we're just whistling in the dark.
That's right, "If we don't trust ourselves to do what we need to do, despite all we've seen and continue to see, we're just whistling in the dark."
Even Obama encourages us to take the power, that he himself alone, can't do it.
Goethe said something close to, "That nation governs best which teaches us to govern ourselves."
Will we not prove the heritage of which we are so proud? Can we rise up? Up on our hind legs? Yes we can, says the man!
Go vote at www.vote.org
Learn and consider direct democracy
Guggzie
Here's an Australian suggestion
A TREASURY CREDIT MONEY BILL
Introduction
It is quite obvious to any rational person that the current financial system, as inflicted upon the world, has developed terminal cancer. No amount of treatment will result in a cure and the longer Governments try to prop up this incurable patient, the longer the world will have to suffer though the death throes of this spreading disease.
There is an answer and it involves CHANGE – a change that the world wants to embrace and a change they will have to embrace if that want to avoid the destitution and suffering of another 1930’s style Depression.
No amount of tinkering with the present system will correct the fundamental flaws – we must break clear and look outside of the box and beyond the straightjacket of traditional economic thinking that has brought this demise upon us all.
There is an alternative – in fact, a painless and simple alternative of delivering the creation of credit and “money” into the rightful ownership of the people of every Nation.
One practical proposal to achieve this is the creation of a Credit Money system administered and controlled through a rigorous, logical and mathematically sound basis by the Government Treasury Department of the Nation.
It can be done – it is practical – and all it requires is the will of the people to force their Government to act.
The key elements of a Treasury Credit Money Bill
1. The Australian Treasury shall be the sole source of original monetary issue.
2. The Federal Reserve Act and all of its amendments, codes and regulations are repealed. The Federal Reserve Banks' entire properties and assets are transferred to the Australian Treasury.
3. Private Banks, Institutions and individuals are prohibited from creating money.
4. As designated in Part 5, Article 51, Clause (xii), of the Australian Constitution, Parliament shall coin, create, provide and regulate money and money credits for all the requirements of Australia, both public and private.
5. Money and credit needed to pay obligations of the Commonwealth Government shall be spent into circulation debt free.
6. The Treasury shall service the financial needs of the private sector through loans to banks and other private entities.
7. The interest rate charged by the Australian Treasury on all loans to the private sector shall be regulated mathematically to withdraw money from circulation at a rate that will maintain a balance with Treasury expenditures. Taxes will be levied as needed to withdraw money from circulation.
8. State and local government treasuries will qualify for interest free loans direct from the Australian Treasury to finance State and local voter approved projects.
9. All legitimate financial obligations in effect when the Treasury Credit Money Bill becomes law shall remain in force until paid.
10. Federal government borrowing is unnecessary and is hereby prohibited.
The transition to the Treasury Credit Money System
Treasury will become the only source of money creation in the economy.
At the 'zero hour' banks will no longer be able to create money and it will become illegal for them to create deposit credits.
All of the bank created money in circulation will constitute an illegal use of the Treasury's money creating prerogative. Therefore, all this money must eventually be repaid to the Treasury.
In other words, the banks owe the money that they created to the Treasury.
If, for example, a bank has loans outstanding of $100 million. At the 'zero hour' of transition to the TCM System the bank will issue a $100 million bond to Treasury. Interest will be payable by the bank on the bond. As the loans are repaid to the bank, the bank will in turn repay portions of the bond and the Treasury will extinguish the money.
Eventually all the outstanding debt of bank created money will be repaid to the Treasury and withdrawn from circulation.
During the transition period, Government expenditure money will be flowing into circulation and payments to the Treasury will be extinguishing money.
There would be no sudden decrease or increase in the money supply.
The change over will be gradual and will, no doubt, take several years to accomplish.
At the same time the check clearing function will be transferred from the banks to a Department of the Treasury. A Revolving Reserve Account will be set up for each financial institution and the clearing process will take place with no apparent change to bank customers.
There will be no change in general banking services to the public and fractional reserve deposit expansion, being no longer necessary, will cease.
Conclusion
Abraham Lincoln was the only President in modern times to be responsible for the issue of debt free money because he understood that the Nation had the sovereign right to create money.
The authority to create and issue money is the supreme prerogative and responsibility of a Nation’s Government, but it is the Government's greatest creative opportunity.
All our lives are controlled by economics delivered to us through the financial system that is designed by man – and – like all man made systems – they are supposed to be for the benefit of mankind – mankind is not designed for the benefit of the systems.
Economics and the financial systems that are part of everyone’s daily life aren’t really as complex as the experts, the bankers, the politicians and the spin doctors of the media would have us believe.
In the hands of a privileged monopoly, the finance system becomes the most subtle form of tyranny to which every nation on earth has fallen victim.
The only defence against this tyrannical use of money creation is a correct understanding of the sovereign right of a Nation’s elected Government to create money for the benefit of all the people.
The establishment of a Treasury Credit Money System provides this defence.
Once established, this system will eliminate inflation, usury, the national debt, the deficit, involuntary unemployment, business cycles, and the Government’s dependence on corporate and personal income tax.
Very good post with wealth of excellent suggestions.
Get rid of Wall Street INDEED before my daughter allows that devil to pry away what's left of her savings. My daughter recently freaked out as the tax forms and keeps screaming about the need for putting her social security money in "personal accounts". She says Obama is open to the idea of allowing SS money to be put into "personal accounts" just like Bush. She didn't support Bush but likes the idea of SS privatization. She even complains about income taxes in general and screams that the income tax should be abolished and replaced with a National Sales Tax. She's fine with this silly stimulus package and thinks it will help her out even if she's unemployed. I try to tell her about Social Security and while she's not as obtuse as my son and son-in-law were before they left and died in Iraq, she keeps insisting that Social Security will be dead anyway and that she'll be happy to die before she turns 50 since she supposes that senior care will be no more by then !! I need help trying to convince her out of this madness and desperation.
Point to her the implosion of Wall STreet ACCOUNTS. and then tell her :"connect the dots...imagine YOUR SS savings or personal savings there. imagine YOURSELF thinking you are SO smart that you have everything covered and put your account in SUCH safe deposits...growing your retirement account....imagine yourself among those people that THOUGHT you were SAFE and SmART....before the summer of 2008....then -- where do you think YOUR savings ARE RIGHT NOW -- with the disappearance of the banks, insurance, managed account houses?...they are now in the ether....then TRY looking for them...GOOD LUCK...when you think only of YOUR own safety and not of the common good - and because of that make your choices based on that principle...you are left ALONE when society , because of separate, but accumulate choices such as you will make -- privatizing , not contributing taxes to the common good -- destroy the fabric of society on which WE ALL depend and are part of....THEN -- with your precious "private account" -- like the millions across the globe whose lives that they thought were SECURE with their "private accounts" are destroyed -- you become only ONE MORE LITTLE COLLATERAL DAMAGE...you end up with.............you guessed it:
a private account that has NOTHING in it....and ALONE with NO social fabric to pick you up..capitalism and wall street are DESIGNED to gather riches for the few from the many like YOU and ME........private account or no private account..if you want to GAMBLE that way -- that's your call...just know that millions others have ALREADY been WIPED OUT who know more about these things than you..as a result of PRIVATE ACCOUNTS".
Hi teddy,
Thanks for a lot of helpful pointers. Some of them I think I tried out but was probably not effective enough on it. My husband and I will go over your pointers and try to frame it so that she can accept it. She is outraged at the Wall Street bailouts which I forgot to discuss with her. My husband says that a lot of the bailout money is now going towards advertising for attacking pro-worker legislation such as EFCA. If we can connect the dots along with what you explained, then I think we can save her life from severe economic ruins.
My husband is worried that if such atrocities were to pass, a new social security would have to be created just to bailout out those who were suckered into giving up the last of their savings to the thieves Wall Street.
Oh my Gawwwwwwwd!!! Such a range of emotions from reading all these comments!!!! Korten is right. He's brilliant! I agree with and support his article. Wish I wrote it! I was just talking like this...same ideas...different link. And here he wrote my words. Couldn't have done better.
Jim Eldon: Your clarification of "wealth" was so excellent! You are right.
At first, I was taken with the rhetoric...elohim, you sounded so intelligent....then cosmobilly (who actually had an idea about Amendment X in a post just prior to elohim's post) challenged elohim. Then elohim got kinda mean actually....and then there was derek who scared the hell out of me!!! Kickboxr...right on! Thank you davidpeace for your thoughtful, intelligent comment. How true!
I have a terrible neck ache, my head hurts and I really have to be excused to the...you know where. People!!! Have Mercy!!! This just so proves what Eckhart Tolle says, and what I just finished reading and talking about in another link...about "Being" and allowing the "Ego" to rule and the "Mind" to prevail. We will never find solutions if we fight each others ideas. We need this great dialoguing and then moving on to action. Action is coming....but what that action looks like will make all the difference.
The people that are the real holders of power will fight, and are fighting, to maintain a system that keeps them in power even if it means the death of the people they have power over, thus rendering their power moot. Corporations have no morality, their only objective is to make money, those tokens representing wealth. Wall Street corporations only objective is to create fake money. With their control over the media, they have managed to persuade much of America, and a large part of the rest of the world, that the only measure of self-worth is collecting as much of this fake wealth, these tokens, as possible. What we need is a complete paradigm shift. Korten gets it. The hypnotized masses won't get it until they wake up one day to find that they are literally starving to death and are out in the cold, freezing rain. It's great to say, “what are we doing to change this?” but ultimately, all we can do for now is put forth ideas and try to set the example on a small, personal level. Anything else will be like trying to stop the tide by using an eye dropper to collect the water. It, the system, has to fail and regardless of whether that failure is spectacular or gradual, it's going to be painful for everyone....
David, here is an idea to try to brighten your day.
vote at www.vote.org
Vote to empower us all to do our bit because it has meaning. Vote for direct democracy. There is no secret to it. Let the people decide... An informed public votes.
Check it out. 20 years of effort by Senator Mike Gravel who realized that the only way to progress as a nation is to include the people directly in the process of law making. With lobbyists given a seat at the table, the citizens must hold the power.
vote at www.vote.org
Thanks, I'll check it out. I do vote, though, every election, even when I don't like the "choices" that are given to me.
http://www.endthefed.us/
http://www.restoretherepublic.com/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/
http://www.rockcreekfreepress.com/ : "Wall Street Bailout Exceeds Cost of All US Wars Combined - And you can throw in the New Deal, Marshall Plan and Moon Shots as well. Casey Research, of Vermont, has analyzed the costs of the government bailouts of the housing crisis, the credit crisis and others and has concluded that the total is $8.5 trillion, which is more than the cost of all US wars, the Louisiana Purchase, the New Deal, the Marshall Plan and the NASA Space Program combined. According to CRS, the Congressional Research Service, all major US wars (including such events as the American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Spanish American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, the invasion of Panama, the Kosovo War and numerous other small conflicts), cost a total of $7.5 trillion in inflation-adjusted 2008 dollars."
I am active with End The Fed organizing. I distribute 100 copies of The Creek and Alex Jones movies each month. The CFR, Trilateral Commission, Kissinger, etc. have been on record WANTING what is now happening to the USA for decades. Wake up. $1Billion of the GM bailout is going toward relocating GM plants to Brazil. Over 2500 TRILLION $ of fraudulent derivatives have been created since Clinton and Gramm repealed government regulations (per the request of the Fed, Citi, JP Morgan, BofA, etc) in 1999. No amount of money will fix this problem. Wall Street is a 100 pound tick on a 10 pound dog.
The elite agenda is to destroy the middle class and perpetuate their oligarchical international reign in perpetuity. These are the same folks who financed the slaughter of 200 million people during the past century. If we allow it the worst is yet to come. Expect mass slaughter in the US. If you think Mao's 80 million deaths can't happen here, think again.
Check out Sherrif Mack http://www.sheriffmack.com -- we must remind our county sherrifs to uphold the constitution. A sherrif can stop an illegal foreclosure, and can stop the suspension of civil liberties by the Feds in his or her jurisdiction. Los Angeles county, where I am, just told Schwarzenegger that no sales tax revenue would be forthcoming if the State refuses to uphold its end of the financial bargain. We need to take control of our local governments.
This week New Hampshire is proposing to reaffirm its sovereignity and its right to armed rebellion against a tyrannical federal government. 28 other states are considering similar legislation.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html
This is gut check time folks. Store up on food, water, precious metals, tradable commodities, firearms, and accurate intel. Unplug your teevees and unsubscribe to cable. The media is there to sleepwalk us into our own enslavement. Obama is a brilliant facelift for the same agenda Bush was carrying out. Obama's first job after lawschool was with Kissinger and Associates, and he and his wife are closely aligned with the Annenberg Foundation that financed the Weathermen created to delegitimize the student protests of the 60s. It takes more than a warm smile and a happy family to serve the citizens of the US. All that glitters is not gold. The banksters all have foundation fronts underwriting NPR. Be wary of them all.
Bush reauthorized the national state of emergency for the 7th year in a row since 9/11 in August 2008. Congress has not once reviewed or approved this action which by law it is supposed to do every 6 months. Obama is doing nothing to undo this state of affairs, which enables government to continue to suspend the constitution.
***
911 was an inside job. Cheney suspended the Constitution via the imposition of Continuity of Government on 911. Congress has been denied access to the COG details. COG is martial law. http://prisonplanet.tv/alex_jones_live.html
I'm surprised you didn't mention The Creature from Jekyll Island
Don't save Wall Street, burn it to the ground along with the banksters.
I'm starting to see that this may be the only viable solution.
It would be good to have a different economic system as Korten states, but the Wall Street and its tentacles in our political system are too deeply entrenched to be easily excised. Only a mass movement supporting local economies on smaller scale can begin to make a dent. But, a mass movement is only possible if the masses know about the deep structural problems with our current system. Unfortunately, the vehicles for flow of that information are also controlled by the same people who run Wall Street. We can perhaps start to educate people around us and hope that we can gather mass for a new thought and build the momentum for it to spread wide.
Korten starts by clarifying, but then confuses things on the issue of wealth. Wealth is all those things that can be represented by money (abstract token of value) and exchanged; goods and services, as economists say. Wealth is NOT all those intangible things he lists (except metaphorically): "a healthy, happy child; a job that provides a sense of self-worth and contribution; membership in a strong, caring community; a healthy vibrant natural environment; peace." These things describe well-being or health in several forms, which might be indicators of wealth, but not necessarily.
What he's implying is clear though: We need an economic system based on real wealth that promotes real health to replace our current system of phantom wealth which has produced ill-health. But his language confuses cause and effect. This is probably due to an accident of language; that we speak of health as something we possess.
Korten's imperative is for a reality check: Does our money represent real wealth? Does our monetary system preserve the quantitative identity of currency with the real wealth its intended to represent? Does our economic system promote and protect equality of opportunity? The answers to these questions of course is no, no and no.
The challenge then is to conceive of an economy and design a monetary system that accomplishes these things. Fortunately, this work has already been done. Mike Montagne's conception of Mathematically Perfected Economy™ explicitly defines money as the representation of real wealth; it maintains the 1:1 relationship of currency to the real wealth it is intended to represent; and it promotes and protects equality of opportunity by embodying the ethics of our democratic ideals. As I wrote to Mike privately awhile ago, the essence of his solution is at once an economic principle and an ethical one. The principle is that of non-intervention; a principle which is found at the heart of Democratic Theory. It is the economic corollary to the conception of civil liberties which seeks to guarantee for each individual all those freedoms which are consistent with the same guarantee for every other individual. In its economic manifestation it can be stated as follows (Mike's definition of the essence of MPE): It is every prospective debtor's right to issue their promise to pay, free of extrinsic manipulation, adulteration, or exploitation of that promise, or the natural opportunity to make good on it. If we want true economic democracy, I think this principle demands constitution-level recognition. If we want an economy of real wealth free of centralized private manipulation and control over standards of value, this is what must be done; we must create Mathematically Perfected Economy™.
www.perfecteconomy.com
At first glance, sounds like just another utopian, libertarian ideologue.
On the web page: "Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection, and the base of a moral existence. - Ayn Rand"
Nope, I don't think money is the base of moaral existence at all; I'd sooner go with "the love of money is the root of all evil".
There is never a shortage of people with ideal solutions to problems as they prefer to define them. In a time of economic crisis, such charlatans rise to the occasion.
According to Mr. Montagne, if we charge interest on money, the world economy will collapse. He has been saying so, by his own admission, for decades. Like a broken clock, he seems to be telling the correct time at the present instant. He might have noticed, but did not, that the world economy has grown spectacularly in real wealth over the past ten, twenty, fifty, or two hundred years.
Of course, he was right in 1932 and perhaps again in 2008. We should notice, however, that the poor of today are considerably richer than the poor of 1932, and that the poor of 1932 were considerably richer than the poor of 1776.
His website goes on and on and on without reaching a point. If he were able to explain his theory simply and clearly, it would be discarded without comment. See http://www.axiomaticeconomics.com/montagne.php for a summary and comment.
"His website goes on and on and on without reaching a point."
Actually Mike's point is made rather forcefully, over and over again: Any currency subject to interest will multiply debt until terminal debt causes monetary collapse. The math is there for you to download and review. I don't know how you could have possibly missed it.
You are certainly right that the world economy has grown spectacularly during the existence of the U.S. But is that supposed to be an argument in favor of maintaining the system of exploitation we labor under? What's your point?
And what's the meaning of saying that the poor of today are richer than the poor of 1932, when hungry, unemployed and homeless is still hungry, unemployed and homeless? Except that now there are several times as many.
Your comment is strictly ad hominem and you fail to even engage in any meaningful debate.
"Your comment is strictly ad hominem"
Not really. Ad Hominem is where you focus on "who or what" the arguer is while ignoring the argument. That's not evident in the post you are commenting on.
"and you fail to even engage in any meaningful debate."
The post included a link to an article putting the smack down on Mike, you ignore that.
And really, can't Mike find a better picture than the weird blurry one he uses making him look like Sasquatch? BTW, that isn't an Ad Hominem either.
Calling Mike a "charlatan" and a "broken clock" is not ad hominem? And is "putting the smack down" on someone not a pretentious and insulting way of simply asserting, without supporting argument, that the person's view has been soundly rebutted, when that's exactly the question at hand? So it's not just ad hominem but begging the question and appeal to authority as well.(Apparently you believe that Aguilar is an authority).
And I did see the link to Aguilar's criticism of Montange. Quite frankly, I don't think Aguilar has correctly identified the premises of Montagne's analysis. And the fact that Aguilar distracts the reader with all kinds of asides and questionable analogies to other theorists makes it a little tougher to pin down exactly what his argument is. It is anything but clear. I'll have to re-read it a couple of more times.
"Calling Mike a "charlatan" and a "broken clock" is not ad hominem?"
No, it might be called "name calling". Ad Hominem, OTOH is a formal logical fallacy. You might find the wikipedia article helpful.
"So it's not just ad hominem but begging the question and appeal to authority as well.(Apparently you believe that Aguilar is an authority)."
Essentially, the article by Aguilar was offered as an argument "by proxy" (my term). The question remains, in this discussion anyway, whether or not Aguilar makes good points.
It is time to change the system. As David Korten points out, the current system and the beliefs that prop it up are destroying both the social and ecological framework upon which real wealth and happiness depend.
These are challenging concepts to get our minds around because we've been indoctrinated with Wall Street and corporate propaganda since our birth. David's book is a very easy and digestible read.
At my church, we started a book study group around this topic on Feb. 3 and meet 2-hours every week for four weeks to discuss and process this information. 30 people are participating and it is powerful and supportive to go through this with a community.
Alone you might feel helpless. With a group you feel empowered. Community is priceless and yet has NO value to Wall Street or the government number crunchers.
www.GreenCPA.blogspot.com
By my reckoning we had the chance to change the system in November, 2008 during our last presidential election. Unfortunately the people decided to listen to cultural gurus telling them that our only option was to elect Obama and then push him to the left. As a result of that strategy Obama's first act was to resurrect the Clinton Administration cronies of the past. Larry Summers and Tim Geithner were selected, both former architects of de-regulation of the banking industry which led us into the financial meltdown in the first place. Now we are expected to believe - if you listen to the current intelligentsia - that our only option is to keep working Obama in hopes that he will suddenly come to his senses and shift course away from right of center politics. The current existential angst waffling across the 'so called' progressive airwaves these days is mostly a polemic against the authentic left who prophetically discerned the direction Obama would move: and, of course, he ran to the right unapologetically, and quicker than a jack rabbit, knowing the corporate progressives, careerists, would just suck it up and then turn their guns on the authentic left as an obfuscation against their own failed strategy. Not the least of which is Obama's presidency.
Obama has knocked himself out with trying to appease Republicans, fortify corporate democrats without yet naming one single radical or progressive to his Administration, let alone think about about the possibility of crafting legislation the type of which Korten speaks.
I respect and admire Korten, but as the kids like to tell us these days, "get real!" I sincerely doubt Korten was on Obama's short list as an advisor. Nor are we going to bring the superstructure crashing down because the 'left' (and I use that term lightly) makes speeches for one another on this site without organizing an authentic movement to mobilize the change everyone wants. Certainly the wall will not be dismantled by any single tactic, no matter how much personal angst, pontificating, self-righteous bombast, or finger pointing that gets unleashed over the air waves. It will take (in my humble opinion) a comprehensive effort under the very big umbrella of progressive cells working collectively when we can, and independently when we disagree, but possessing the wisdom to put our differences aside to constantly rethink our tactics, and not be afraid to try something new. Instead we get this entrenched mentality which proclaims "my way is the only way" and fuck anyone who sincerely works in his or her backyard for authentic political transformation.
I think it is time for Obama to make an overture to the left by extracting himself from 'group think' long enough to listen to diverse and marginal voices. And David Korten would be a good start in that regard.
If we think Left vs. Right vs. Center, we are lost. These are meaningless terms, as anyone who listens to the commentators can easily discern. It is a pointless task to group people who have differing views by certain criteria -- just as it is foolish to think you can define people by their skin color or age or ethnicity or nationality. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.
Governing a diverse society by a fixed philosophy is like driving a car that can only go in one direction. It works, of course, but sooner or later it proves inconvenient, impractical, and finally insane.
Progressives will make progress when they give up their fixed opinions -- as varied as they may be.
I see you are offering a critique based on your own version of a fixed position along with the type of obfuscation I referred to in my missive. Moreover your angst has more to do with my characterization of Obama being sterilized by corporate interests. Along with your lame attempt to shift the context by avoiding comprehensive issues of import to the left. Korten is offering visionary praxis so far outside of the corporate box most white liberals live; they cannot re-vision a world without the pampering that represents their cushy lives in suburbia.
So you don't like my characterization of political engagement; and whether you like it or not, that nevertheless does not render it illegitimate despite your emotional outburst to twist the context of the post. Of course, we are all "different" as you say; but context and social location are everything. Progressives are not of the same ilk, most who refer to themselves as such have actually morphed themselves to the corporate enterprise. I suspect your ongoing angst springs from an understanding of liberalism tied to comfort zone politics, i.e, that which does anything to indulge in some dysfunctional "cathartic" posturizing to avoid actual risks of embodied praxis.
I further suspect your outburst also springs from laboring too long under the tyrannical illusion of the so-called "American Dream" which in psychological language is often referred to "denial" meaning you come to count on your corporate paycheck, driving your SUV while pasting a bumper sticker on the back window proclaiming "Save the Earth!" And then wondering what contradiction there is when put directly in front of your face.
The reality is that Obama was the closest thing to a centrist or a progressive that had any real chance to get elected within the current political and social climate. The reality is that that machine is well defined, well established and well controlled by internationals and influences beyond the sphere of common folk. And the reality is that putting together a.... "comprehensive effort under the very big umbrella of progressive cells working collectively when we can, and independently when we disagree, but possessing the wisdom to put our differences aside to constantly rethink our tactics, and not be afraid to try something new" ... is an absurd postulation when followed up by... "I think it is time for Obama to make an overture to the left by extracting himself from 'group think' long enough to listen to diverse and marginal voices. And David Korten would be a good start in that regard."
Looking to someone else to fix the problem is the problem. Not understanding the greater sphere of influence and not knowing how to organize our own collective power is the problem. Too many people keep insisting on "getting real" with no realistic grasp of how to do that and make it work. And the one viable solution that is available is continually ignored by the same folks who complain the most, only supporting the conjecture that they would rather complain than actually do something.
I am listening. What are your proposals? Interested in hearing your enlightened narrative, both on the problems and your solutions. What exactly are you doing to make it happen since that seams to be the basis of your critique?
By the rights and powers granted to the states and people under Amendment X, to organize an annual or bi-annual peoples convention to discuss and submit public resolutions. Some states are currently discussing and bringing forth other Amendment X proposals, and there is nothing except an abundant lack of will to prevent the people from organizing and asserting rights and powers under this amendment. By organizing and formalizing a collective stance in this regard we can submit, discuss and promote resolutions in a legally more effective manner than holding protests in the street, complaining endlessly on these forums, or waiting for our congressional and other elected representatives to actually act in our interest.
And regardless, until we do this we cannot possibly claim we have exhausted all means or been suppressed. And if we try this, and they do suppress it, well, maybe that will be the needed wake up call. We can invite the Naders and Kuciniches, and others to speak. We can hold seminars and discuss real issues. We can form our own committees and perform our own investigations. We can examine the boundaries of power and challenge apparent government encroachments upon the public domain. We can act as if we actually do know and care about the common good - for our own good.
I don't think I read anything in your missive that remotely offers an answer to my question when asking precisely what you are doing about it? I am not interested in your concepts but in your specific action. Since that was the basis of your critique against me, lets back up and start all over again.
What's the difference between a viable and realistic course of action and a just another great idea?
I wonder who can envision the applicability under an Amendment X resolution to actually formalize such an initiative?
Sioux Rose
Natural laws impact manmade creations, so when a thing gets too big, it seems to fall apart or break back into smaller pieces.
Here's an example. A month ago I was traveling to Orlando and thought I'd do lunch at a great restaurant in Ocala. When I took the exit off I-75 that restaurant, along with four others (the others were all parts of big national food chains) were closed. I went to an alternative place that served Indian food, and mentioned the closings of the other restaurants just 2 miles up the road. The owner told me that since they were a FAMILY OPERATION, they could stay in business.
I have seen this on a local scale. It's true that the larger national distribution stores are hurting, but local consignment shops and used furniture places are thriving in my area. People are turning away from the big ticket items bought new, and going for decent recycled items and this in the long run will be something of a reprieve for the Great Mother, producer of it all (with the help of human assembly-agents, particularly those in the crafting fields).
The stock market is nothing but a gambling ring for the rich. It produces nothing. The only time that stock makes any difference to a company is when it is first issued. After that it means nothing to the company, and doesn't benefit it in anything but perception among those who are not investing in that company, but can ultimately control and destroy it. Eliminating it wouldn't hurt us at all.
You are correct. The stock market is no different than going to the horse races. The stock market was ok back when companies paid dividends, but when the capital gains were reduced, the game was on to run the prices for stocks around so that some people could cash in on highly fluctuating stock prices. Brokers made out pretty well with this. Maybe they should be called "bookies".
Wall $treet is nothing but a professional version of gambling made "legal". Be careful what you wish for on W$.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of
patriots and tyrants. ....Thomas Jefferson
Rid the world of Wall Street (THE MONEY CHANGERS) and you alleviate an incredible host of problems, including the world's largest "Laundromat" for drug money.
Good piece, and I plan on getting his new book. The idea of changing this nation into a more common sense plane of existence is an incredibly step mountain to climb. Go to any mall and look at the cowed expresions of hope on most shoppers faces as they search for that pair of jeans or tacky little necklace in hopes of finding happiness. Try and explain to them that marketing has led them astray, and be prepared to be laughed at.
Oh but Wall Street is too big to fail.
This is what it boils down to. "change? " -- by shifting from a wall street dominated, finance, money "wealth creation" dominated CULTURE?
heavens NO -- that's NOT the United States of America. !!
whether it is from the powers-that-be, or the culture, or BOTH -
there is not going to be any fundamental change. the only"Change" that will happen for america concerning its economy - and the way it is anchored to "money capitalism" - is for these things to just keep going, including the monster bandaids -- that will just keep getting bigger and bigger
(the infusion of "capital" by printing more trillions of dollars based on THIN AIR being the entire underpinning of US capitalism -- i.e. : a version of "trust US, we are america, our GREEN PAPER represents REAL value of REAL products and REAL goods" - being one instrument) - is when the USA , through a combination of trying to hang on to THIS VERY SAME money capitalism AND trying to hang on to "empire" -
IS the thing that will "change" america -- and it's not going to be because americans WANT TO - it is because they will be FORCED to by reality.
but by the time THAT happens - perhaps a decade from now , if not even less -- the USA as an "economic" powerhouse on which the globe is attached - is going to be FINISHED.
ALREADY -- as of this moment :
one of the strongest "allies" of the USA in asia -- THAILAND (for which reason thailand agreed to be a HOST of the USA's rendition and torture program) -- has openly allowed itself to be "embraced" by the China influence in southeast asia to join "former" burma, laos, vietnam and cambodia.
that is a BIG, BIG blow to US influence.
ministers and former ministers in Thailand are OPENLY saying THIS:
"THE USA is no longer as IMPORTANT TO US as it was previously".
and WHY? they have experienced PLENTY of poisonous "prescriptions" from PRECISELY the kind of "money capitalism" that usa has exported..not least being the currency devaluations 2 decades ago when THAILAND FOLLOWED the US inspired IMF "prescriptions" -- being just ONE of them.
and THAT was when there was NO re-emergent China. and that was when the USA monetary system and capitalism was considered "THE UNCHALLENGED RULER OF THE WORLD"..
no - there will be no change, if change means that americans - both from top to bottom - will initiate SERIOUS fundamental changes to the ENTIRE economic system as explained in the article above - UNTIL they are forced by circumstances beyond JUST the present events.
ONLY very very deep hole, much deeper than this will do that.
and already the "solutions" :combined bailout of the fraudulent banking system and public/private "stimulus" -- ALL OF IT BACKED UP by NOTHING but THIN AIR printed as "dollars" are a SUREFIRE way of DIGGING EVEN DEEPER and BIGGER and MORE NUMEROUS holes towards an eventual TOTAL collapse of the system itself.
ONLY THEN will americans collectively CRY for SOCIALISM or something similar -- to get AS FAR AWAY AS THEY CAN
from their "supernationalistic capitalism" that can't save itself from its own torpidity!