I Want My Money Back! (Pres. Obama!)
I want my money back.
I gave $20 a week for seven months, plus $60 every once in a while for a t-shirt and sticker. I gave of my modest purse joyfully. Once I add that all up, it makes a grand total of... $106 billion?! Wait a minute, I thought I was supporting change I could believe in, not more of the same bloodshed and war!
Betrayal is a part of life. After awhile, you just come to expect it. Yet, the initial shock always hits you as a surprise. Alas, the nature of betrayal. Humans are vulnerable to being betrayed because underneath our husky shells, our pain and hardened hearts, we are soft and trustful creatures. We want to believe in people.
I'm not that young, so I possess some cynicism. But I'm not that old either, so I manage some idealism. Sure, I am used to being betrayed by my government. But I thought my days of calling the White House in tears were over. To think that Barack Obama preyed on this naive hope in me and millions like me is unforgivable.
I expect the Republicans to throw money at the Military Industrial Complex. Yet, from the Democrats, I was promised a different direction (like OUT of the Middle East). Regrettably, there has been miniscule change. There is still nothing to believe in.
It is against my religion to say the Pledge of Allegiance. (I am a Christian so I pledge allegiance only to God.) I did, however, pledge my time and treasure to Barack Obama. On November 4, 2008, I danced in the streets waving the American Flag, feeling proud to be an American. I was pathetically close to bustin' out some Toby Keith ditties.
It's not just the $106 billion that makes me feel betrayed. It's not just the fact that Gitmo probably won't be shut down after all. It is not even the president's assurance to Republicans that he will not release the photos of detainee abuse.
It is the rumors of intimidation and strong-arming that are, to me, the greatest betrayal.
That President Barack Obama sent Rahm Emanuel and Nancy Pelosi to bully anti-war Democrats into voting for the supplemental (and threatening to withdraw the leadership's support for their re-elections if they didn't) is a shameful misuse of power. Where's the humanity I once saw in Barack? It's just more of the same and I can't stomach it.
I knew I was naïve; yet like millions of Americans, I had no choice but to believe. Our hearts were desperate for hope. We saw Barack Obama as an oasis in the desert. To think that he may be just a mirage is heartbreaking.When you have a minute, give Wisconsin Senator Russ Feingold a call at (202) 224-5323. He was the only Democrat in the Senate to vote against the war funding (along with three Republicans and an Independent).
Oh, and please consider supporting my grassroots campaign to get my $680 back so I can donate it to the Whatcom Peace & Justice Center. Thanks.
Twitter
StumbleUpon
Facebook
Delicious
Digg
Newsvine
Google
Yahoo
Technorati
240 Comments so far
Show AllThe change we were told to believe in turns out to be a change for the worse. The appointment of Rahm Immanuel was the first clue for me. Since then there have been few surprises. The problem goes much deeper than Obama, however it would have been nice had he risen above being two-faced sell-out liar. America, it seems quite apparent, is on a rapid, irreversible trip to hell. Hold on. It's not just your money thats gone missing Marie. It's our grandparents, ours, our kids and their kids money, their dreams and any hope for a future. Our very country has been stolen. The only sensible, legal remedies for treason are not allowed to be talked about.
For me, it was FISA.
As for those who say he's doing it to oust the Republicans, Howard Dean formed the strategy that worked, and Rahm opposed the winning strategy. Results? Dean leaves, Rahm rules.
Marie:
If you are disappointed with Obomber's foreign policy, just wait until he and Congress pass the NO INSURANCE COMPANY LEFT BEHIND "health care reform" that will end up costing you and I more than ever for less health care than we are getting now.
Your junior Senator (Maria Cantwell D-WA)has gone one step further than Obama in advising her constituents (NPR Station KUOW, 6/22/09) that single-payer and a public option are DOA and the best we can hope for are regional co-ops (which are more of the same).
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
Nanoo
Marie, by all means you should write Obama and request your money be returned as you are disappointed with the product. From what I've read, Obama has all kinds of money left over.
Most pols won't even consider it unless it a large sum in the tens of thousands or higher. Obama and most pols have a knack of taking the money and churning it with the monied elites.
Why should she ask for a refund? She knew what she was doing when she contributed and she deserves to be punished just like the rest of those who donated to Obama's campaign. Those who donated to Obama have no reason to be forgiven. They voted to continue the war machine.
"They voted to continue the war machine."
The article makes it very clear that that author did NOT vote to do so.
q
"The article makes it very clear that that author did NOT vote to do so."
Oh sure, anyone can offer a fake apology but Obama never promised an end to the war machine but she still fell for all his hope bs. Obama even made a lot of talk about keeping the occupation in Iraq ongoing and even bombing Pakistan and Afghanistan and yet she still gave money to that criminal scumbag. She may have wished that he hadn't chosen that path but she voted for him and gave him money to his team to crack down on progressive dissent. She helped Obama further rob us so she ain't gettin' back no stinkin' refund. I voted for Nader and I'm mad as hell at these apologists suddenly pretending to be sorry. How the hell can any of us be so sure that she really means it? Let's say she gets her money back, then what? She'll donate it to Obama again in 2012 because the GOP puts up Sarah Palin and then in 2013 she'll beg again if Obama wins and keeps betraying the country. If she doesn't get her money back, she'll learn her lesson the HARD way and not give to that criminal scumbag next time and the same thing goes to the millions who donated even when Obama clearly stated his criminal intentions !
Ah!And with a heart like that you expect to get people to your cause?If all of your fellow voters are so elite and true then you are no better because you expect folowers and not the different peoples.So what do you end up with?Tony
I voted for Nader and I'm damn proud of it. You voted for Obama? If so, how do you like it now? A "nice" raw deal, ain't it? I'm fed up with party apologists.
I apologize for nothing to you or anyone else for my vote.Tony
Shameless.
Frederick Johnson you may be right, but you are too harsh. Haven't you made a mistake before? I am so glad people are starting to realize they got hoodwinked. That's progress. Some posting on CD are still under the influence of the kool-aid and are accusing us of not giving O'bomber enough time. I am celebrating these articles.
The liberals at The Nation, on the other hand, have not, to my knowledge, recanted their vote for the Bomber. They are the types that are likely to write articles as we approach 2012 calling for us to support the Democrats with lesserevilistic arguments, because the dreaded Republicans are coming.
Even as cynical as I am, I wouldn't be so sure Marie Marchand will support the Bomber again. The Nation yes.
I've made mistakes before but I learned from them and I don't repeat them. In Marie's case, I would have checked month to month to see how whoever I was contributing to was doing. Obama was getting worse month to month and she could have at least checked on that. I am frustrated that thanks to her, we're all gonna get poorer with Obama continuing Bush's wars and economic policies. But alright, I'll see what she does by 2012. I'm just fed up with the party apologists from both sides. If she had gotten back her money while others didn't, I don't know what article she would have written by now.
Look, I hear you. You are preaching to the choir. I am just saying better late than never.
I'm tired of the "I made a mistake" whining.
After promising to vote against FISA, Obama voted for it.
FISA!!
After that there were no "mistakes".
Oregoncharles
Good post! Constant recriminations are not effective?
Oregoncharles
yes, you are better than they are. Is this what you want to hear. Are you satisfied now?
These recriminations are not helpful and they serve no purpose. It's ok to discuss why people voted for Obama and a plan for next time. They don't need insults on a daily basis! It's unproductive.
Right. "I voted for a pro-war candidate to oppose the war machine."
Other than your wish, who had the votes to stop the War Machine? Not the talk, but had the votes to stop the funding of the MIC?
Nader, Mckinney and all the rest didn't and did not even say they could.
I understand your frustration but what your blame game does is counter productive to the goal of a better united Peace and Justice movement. And it may be unhealthy for you to carry such a grudge.
You ask "Why should she ask for a refund"?
Because it is her right just as it is for you to vote your wish.
To stop the War Machine we need to unite or else we are foolin ourselves.
Ok, so she can beg for a refund but the fool ain't gonna get it and doubly so for being a DPA. She must be made to learn her lesson. I rest my case.
maybe we can overlook the arrogance and ignorance that got us where we are. our controllers use every divide strategy in the book to keep us from forming an effective opposition party. if people are waking up to the betrayal, that is good. this is class warfare of the worst kind. you are either with the federal reserve/derivatives crew (none of which has been regulated or banned yet) or you are with the american people. we're $17trillion in the hole since October of last year, and that is nothing compared to the 1.5 quadrillion of derivatives the bankers expect the american and british commonwealth taxpayers to pick up the tab on. we need grand juries and convictions for fraud. audit the fed: HR 1207 -- call your senators and congress people. goldman sachs is manipulating oil futures markets again, betting the prices up like they did last fall, while they sit on a dozen supertankers full of crude, waiting to cash in. all these futures trading have no tax or transaction fee, yet incur real damage to non-insiders like the american people. bernanke during congressional testimony last week said that the dollar would collapse and we would enter a depression if the fed is audited. ask yourself who is the real terrorist?
HR 1207 to reign in the fed? Sounds great. I doubt that my three Republicans out here in SC will take it seriously but I think there's a chance they'll vote yes on it. I'll give it a read. Thank you.
Frederick Johnson June 28th, 2009 3:51 pm :
you can find out more here:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/campaigns/auditthefed.php
http://endthefedusa.ning.com/group/repealthefedpetitionproject
http://www.infowars.com/fed-to-hire-pr-wizard-to-fight-against-hr-1207/
yes, there are some "right" of center points of view expressed occasionally in the above; but i think we need to find common interests and fight collectively for those. reclaiming the US money supply from jp morgan/bank of england/rockefeller is a good place to start.
Great post, Treebeard.
It could be the media and then the individuals themselves. Like the author, I am noticing a similar pattern with what little we have of the progressive media. During election year, most of the progressive sites on the Internet play go-along get-along with the media and do not offer real progressives such as Nader, Mckinney, Kucinich, Sheehan, etc ... a voice. When I looked back at the archives, on most progressive/liberal sites, I noticed that there was very little mention of Kucinich in the primaries and same of Nader/Mckinney in the general election. So if we're to build a progressive/liberal media, why do these younger alternative media outlets on the Internet keep giving high preference to Dubya-lites such as Hillary and Barry?
I would at the same time like to ask this author if she had even given Kucinich, Nader, and Mckinney a look at all through the primaries or general election despite bad media showings. If all Marie is worried about is money, then why didn't she actually take even a few minutes to look up Obama's actual voting record in the Senate? Except for one war spending bill, he's pretty much voted yes to more war funding. In fact, often times on the corporate media, during his Senate tenure he always attacked anti-war rallies and people against continuing the war. Even throughout his entire campaign trail, Obama made his intentions crystal clear and even the rightwing media started questioning his flip-flopping to the right on almost every issue.
I don't know what made me immune to Obama's pixy dust but I'm finding out and so far I have a blurry understanding of his seductive nature. He'll no doubt get tougher by 2012 about it. However, I would like to see the author apologize for not giving Kucinich, Nader, and Mckinney a chance.
Oregoncharles
"I don't know what made me immune to Obama's pixy dust.."
I have an inkling: You're a bit of a loner, you see through the surface of things, have very high ideals and expectations, you can see through fakery, you're smart, maybe a little quirky, and very discerning. this is the personality of a political organizer. This is your calling Jennifer.
"You're a bit of a loner"
I wouldn't say that completely. It can almost feel that way though when thinking entirely different from the supposed norm. I will admit that I'm working on overcoming that lingering feeling and trying to mix confidence and happiness with success and courage.
As for having high expectations and ideals, I don't know. I didn't know that asking for the simple basics similar to Nader meant asking for so much. As for being a political organizer, I feel tickled on that one. I always look at the issues in a non-political sense. Since I'm no fan of big money, I don't know that I could do it.
I likewise was immune to as you so cutely expressed, "Obama's pixie dust". I became dead-set against him years earlier - the moment he finished his rather right wing, pro-war, keynote speech at the 2004 DNC.
I continue to be stupefied how so many people, who should have known better, couldn't hear or see Obama's obvious conservative, and capitulation-to-conservative viewpoints. Of course, the standard reply was he was just putting on an act and would become a genuine progressive the second the polls close. So I would ask, "So, are you telling me I should vote for a candidate who is deceiving the public? Isn't this only going to work if it's kept secret? Where did YOU get this secret information that Obama is just faking being a conservative?
Lewis Carroll couldn't have thought this stuff up.
The excellent analysis of Paul Street on Znet also helped me see through the crap.
But I think the biggest key is television. It is well known from research that critical thinking decreases precipitously with TV viewership. Obama's campaign was primarily a tried and true TV advertising campaign that is specifically engineered to turn the emotions on and the brains logic centers off.
I, too, had hope that he would live-up to our expectations. Although I am disappointed, I am not surprised. He never really made any commitments. Just a lot of lofty rhetoric. I despise him as much as I despise Bush. At least Bush was predictable from the get-go. Obama played us for suckers. I had my first inkling that something was amiss when he took the train from Philadelphia to Washington. That was pretentious. When he assembled his cabinet, I knew for certain that he was just another clown. I will not be fooled again! I will never vote for another mainstream candidate.
Blackagendareport.com pegged him as a phony from the start. I dismissed it as just more sour grapes. Glen Ford and Margaret Kimberly knew what they were talking about.
I forgive you. The sad truth is most of us get seduced by what looks appealing. It's like getting tempted into eating junk food and writing off good food but it's probably that the monied media will use their capital to seduce and manipulate, something non-monied folks like Ford and Kimberly could neither afford to do nor even consider doing. Society has been awash in worshipping Mammon in all sorts of ways and that has to be reversed.
After FISA, there were no more excuses. If you voted for him after that, you're a closet moderate right-winger.
If you had actually read her posts, you would have realized that she voted for Nader thrice. She does have a right to forgive especially if those people are ready to look towards a new party. How do you expect more people to vote for 3rd parties if you keep being completely rude about it?
odoco
Carla - thank you for your fairmindedness. Badmouthing and alienating those that should be our political cohorts serves no effective, practical purpose. Our position should be to persuade, inform, educate, so that a viable, true and people-oriented political grouping can take form.
Name calling and derogatory comments that serve only to demean actually lessen our force as a political entity.
If you folks want to get nasty - fine - but point your abuse toward those that now control the system, not toward folks who potentially could become the groundwork of a new movement.
Carlawaters and odoco, thank you for setting the record straight and trying to put some sanity here. Some people can tick me off so much and even end up raising my blood pressure. I'm happy to have come here and learn and even help some. Interestingly, I find myself less unhappy the less angry I am about who voted for whom. As long as they are ready to admit their mistakes and will join us in helping and healing our wounds and scars, I welcome them with an open heart and mind.
By the way odoco, I admire your name. How did you come up with that name?
I wasn't trying to insult you. I was trying to describe you.
But OK, take your shot.
After Obama promised to vote against FISA and then voted for it, why did you continue? Otherwise, my description stands.
DON'T TREAD ON ME~
Won't get fooled again, huh?
I didn't have any money to give the dumb-ass (not that I would've) because they already took it all, thanks to Reagan.
He's not my boss (new or old), he's my persecutor and torturer-in-chief.
Just the latest in a long line.
FUCKERS.
You got that right brother ! Anyone who gives money to traitors deserves more karma. God will continue to punish this country until she finishes bleeding to death as long as we're stuck with party apologists in both parties !
Last week I left a request at whitehouse.gov for a refund of $25 for a contribution I made last October since I was the victim of a bait-and-switch scam.
Six months in, and the alarm bells are going off, a collective wake up call is growing exponentially, and yes, we are finally realizing what we created; or should I say what we asked for?
Wait a minute, actually I voted for McKinney. I am old enough to respect my cynicism. A starry eyed dreamer, I am not. Cynicism is another word for realism. And politics is the best way to catch the virus.
How many times does it take to be fooled again?
Wait a frigging minute: there must be a tune by the Rock group, Who, that goes something like, "We Won't Get Fooled Again, Meet the New Boss, Same as The Old Boss" or something like that.
Yes, I am sure my cynicism is perpetuated by cynical people - elected people - who suck our blood like parasites. They bleed our collective bodies dry.
It is pretty clear that politicians are the dregs of the world and those who seek public office see it as a path for personal wealth, power, prestige, and a means to personal security. Wonder if inside their smoke filled rooms they are having one of the best belly laughs at our expense?
They don't say it in public or at cocktail parties, but it must give them a glow as they stuff their pockets with corporate cash. They probably go to bed at night laughing themselves sick.
As I write these words, I just have the urge to punch Nancy Pelosi phony looking and plastered smile down her throat, and kick Obama's skinny ass at basketball.
What a crybaby. You got a Kindler, Gentler Puppet. That's not enough for you?
Presidential actors aren't cheap you know.
McCtain or Hillary would have given us the same agenda but with less candy talk.
The horrors of the Bush administration guaranteed a Democrat would get into office and like Iran whose Mullahs control which candidates run, we are only given two choices.
PS, by the time you would get your refund it would be worthless anyway.
Excellent one mokanco. No refunds for funding criminal scumbags.
Obama raised most of his money by means of small donations from millions of people like you and me. I am old enough to realize that third party, single cause candidates have historically only served to split the opposition vote, effectively helping the very people they oppose. So I will not support the candidacy of a Nader or Kucinich. But I want all the Democrats to know that next go round I will not contribute one penny to their cause unless two things happen before November of 2010: 1. we see the beginning of the end of a US military presence in the Muslim world; 2. we have a single payer health care option for everyone signed into law.
Those in Congress are old enough to know that campaign contributions from the people with deep pockets are not without strings and always given as well to the other side to insure the bet. They need those of us who give a little but don't play both sides. When I give $50, or $100, I also cast my vote. Big Oil or Pharma or Defense will stroke you with money and vote for the other guy. If you don't get my money, you won't get my vote either.
odoco
ppeters: I understand your position, I exhibited same for all my life - until now. What I came to understand, with Jennifer's help, among others, is that voting for one or the other in the duopoly is not really a choice - that is simply now a fact. By voting 3rd party you are actually telling the system that you will not play their game anymore - and when enough people actually do that, then the duopoly, just as they have done in select locations and times in the past - will have to resort to the outright rigging of elections, increased intimidation at the polls, using the military to quiet dissent, etc. Then, we will have come full circle - and I believe that is exactly where we are headed.
Voting your conscience ppeters is not wasting your vote - it is preserving your integrity as a citizen in a democracy.
Odoco:
I must disagree with you. I have no problem with people voting their conscience, but to consider a third party candidate who polls in the less than 15% range a reasonable choice does not send a message of any kind. Consider the effect of Jack Anderson, Ross Perot, Ralph Nader. In each case they had absolutely no effect on the direction of the country and drew off enough progressive votes to award the victory to the candidate that was the tool of large corporate interests. I predict that the GOP strategy in the next election and in the 2012 elections will be to secretly back "independents" in congressional districts that are heavily GOP. By so doing they allow people to "vote their conscience" because these same people would never consider voting for a democrat. The result--the combination of independents and GOP is enough to deny a non-GOP victory.
Change won't come from outside the system. And it will only come from inside the system when the little donors (of money and times) say "no more".
The nature of politics is that you often have to hold your nose and chose between two evils. To throw your vote away is to duck your responsibility.
This is a self fulfilling prophecy that is trying to pass as reasonable thinking.
-- Obama raised most of his money by means of small donations --
From cfinst.org - "Obama also raised 80% more from large donors than small..."
Maria: I share your disappointment in President Obama although my first preference was for Dennis Kucinich. I knew Dennis was for real and the depth of his true compassion and spirituality mirrored my own inner feelings.
The radical left must now finally recognize reality, the powers that be within this rotten capitalistic system will never allow for the election of a true reformer.
It can only be taken from these capitalists in the streets.
There has to be at least 5% of us that are willing to take to the streets, and to be truly peaceful and non-violent. These numbers would be more than enough to bring about radical social change. The election of Obama has proved that this is the only way. The big unanswered question is, how do we get it going?
I would like to share with CD posters today's Reflections by Franciscan Father Richard Rohr:
FREEDOM
The primal freedom is the freedom to be our True Self—the freedom to live in the whole truth of the moment—attractive and unattractive. This takes far more courage than we might imagine.
Great religion offers us, not just freedom from our small illusion (often called “sin”) but freedom for the Big Picture. That’s why the saints could be imprisoned and not lose their spirit. They could be put down and persecuted like Jesus and still not lose their joy, their heart, or their perspective. Their freedom came from within. Our freedom from finally and eventually becomes our freedom for. We must always seek the positive and full meaning of freedom, which nation states know little about.
Secular freedom is having to do what we want to do. Religious freedom is wanting to do what we have to do.
Good post, Stephen. You and I are in the same boat.
We will unquestionably soon become the targets of the vicious hatred being spewed on this thread toward those of us who have admitted that our support has been betrayed.
One is forced to wonder at the reasoning behind such relentless nastiness. These folks claim to want us to support third party candidates (as though all such office seekers are the same).
Can you imagine canvassing a neighborhood by asking the folks in each household if they supported Obama, harshly abusing them for half an hour with caustic rhetoric if they admit that they did, and then asking them to suppport your candidate?
Of course not. Whatever the goal of their spite may be, it is clearly not the boosting of alternative parties.
Peace.
q
I agree with you 99%. We MUST take to the streets or there can be no change. Yes we must be non-violent as violence is hardly ever the answer. But peaceful? If we don't make things uncomfortable for these people they will never even take notice.
I am not a religious person, but that is an interesting note by Father Rohr. I don't think "religious freedom is wanting to do what we have to do." That is not freedom. That is an attitude, and the one we need to have. His "primal freedom" is what freedom is for me - to realize our potential - something that is increasingly difficult in today's America.
Good post, Stephen. Thanks.
"The radical left must now finally recognize reality, the powers that be within this rotten capitalistic system will never allow for the election of a true reformer.
"It can only be taken from these capitalists in the streets."
Agreed, Stephen.
I will take it one step further and add that it's not just in the streets that we will realize progress, but in our own homes and back (and front) yards. With each step we take to decouple our support of the system, we start changing the system.
Thank you for posting Freedom. I needed to hear those words.
THE CIRCLE
In the circle where is the beginning? Is it at the start of ,so called , death?
Can it be at the at the breath of life that is the start of a physical sojourn here on this earth?
What does it mean to jump out of the circle right after getting on, as a baby might?
Would this be a merciful thing and maybe a lesson to teach others, such as, siblings, parents or a world?
From a start to an earthly demise, how much of the circle is taken and do you get off and wait for another birth?
To interfere in another’s circle do they just fall off, what of your own journey and how do you set things right?
Standing anywhere on the circle can be seen as a beginning and to complete this circle is a full life and is this not a heaven to hold?
The circle of life, such a trip! Tony
Aw, poor Marie. She wants her money back after all that trouble she and millions others went through to help Obama and his party drown out Nader from the debates, lie to the public and flip flop on the issues, mislead the voters, etc ... ? Sorry lady but you contributed to the corrupt two-party duopoly so let this loss be a lesson of K-A-R-M-A to you and the rest of you losers who gave money to either scumbag, Mccain or Obama ! Thanks to you we're all gonna keep losing !!
Frederick,
You got it all wrong. It's a one party system of war and corporations, I would be as happy as a sissy on a troop train if we had a two party system. And Marie, better to vote for what you want and lose, than vote for what you don't want (lesser of two evils) and win.
"It's a one party system of war and corporations,"
Yeah, I suppose we could call it one party with two faces.
I've been calling it "one party with two faces" for some time now, and Frederick Johnson, your abusive and critical language is extremely unhelpful in this situation. Didn't your mother teach you if you can't say something nice, keep your mouth shut?
Is there some reason why, at a time when we need to pull together you are driving wedges between us? Just whose side are you on?
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Kathy, there are plants here on CD, be they seeded by others or self-propagated. Slowly but surely they make themselves known.
Thanks,
Well said with passion and logic.
I wholeheartedly agree, BFK, that all the blame and spite coming from a few of the self-congratulatory know-it-alls is highly unproductive. I voted for the person I thought was the best candidate. Thinking of the ballot I had to choose from, I still think I voted for the best candidate. Until Nader actually manages to get himself elected (to any political governmental position) we'll never know how he would perform in a situation in which he has to represent and lead his constituency. So far his involvement in the electoral process has served to actually decrease the number of third party voters. That's not something I can support. Cynthia McKinney did not impress me as someone who has leadership qualities. I would rather have seen her in a secondary supportive, unifying position, and if you are sick of Democrats, she was one for a long time before going to the Greens. The fact that Obama turned out to be so much worse than I could have imagined does not elevate the status of the others who remain just as inadequate in my view. My choice for the best candidate in the future to work for (should he choose to subject himself to the abuse and misery again) is of course Dennis Kucinich, who has proved himself to be true to his word against the odds and big business. He consistently refuses to be bullied or bought. Unfortunately he was forced out of the running before I could even vote for him in the primaries. I wish he'd come out as a Green or Independant or even start another party.
Yes, your points are well expressed here!!
I agree, especially about Nader.
McKinney didn't impress you, huh. Wow. Guess you'll be voting Democratic from now on. Tell me how that works out.
You don't know much... But you at least know who she is talkin about.
Oh, look. I've got a puppy-dog following me everywhere making vacuous posts.
Can someone explain this post to me, other than just plain trollin'?
"your abusive and critical language is extremely unhelpful in this situation. Didn't your mother teach you if you can't say something nice, keep your mouth shut?"
Yeah, but my parents taught me to be brave to speak out even if I have to get a little rough here. You party apologists can lament all you want about Obama but that's what you get for rudely writing us off last year even when we warned you. I don't want to sound like a mad man but I'm sick and tired of Democrat Party Apologists.
"Is there some reason why, at a time when we need to pull together you are driving wedges between us? Just whose side are you on?"
Wedges? Who are you bluffing anyway? I've been a solid Nader supporter while you were being a Democrat Party apologist. How do you like Obama now? Marie paid for something she knew was very little better than the previous bastard and now she wants to cry for a refund? Forget it. She should shut up and learn her lesson for contributing money to criminals like Obama whose party along with the media saw to it that Nader had no say even in the debates. I'm on Nader's side. What about you?
Actually, BeForKids supports Nader. She has voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004. While she voted for Obama in 2008, we can give her a chance because she's very upset with Obama for being even worse than what even those of us who voted for Nader suspected. I've got a blurry understanding of what made Obama's campaigning so seductive but through the readings here and in books on confidence and happiness, I'm slowly getting a better understanding of the seductive nature of the campaigns. We have plenty to be angry with Obama but we can only defeat both parties if we bring on board more people who are willing to admit their mistakes and help heal the wounds for a better tomorrow. I hope you're not like that "Wanderer" guy who keeps saying that I voted for Obama when I did not.
Thank you for sharing that information but you see, I don't take these party apologists seriously. If you wanna talk to them and negotiate with them, be my guest. I'm long sick and tired of supporting either the Republicans or Democrats. I voted for Nixon and Raygun twice and voted Democrat in 1976 and 1988 but I got sick and tired of both parties. I voted twice for Perot and thrice for Nader. I'd be happy to help bring on new converts but so far, I'm running into more party apologists asking remaining independent voters to join them but I'm not buying their dirty crap. There's gonna be plenty more to be fed up with Obama about and by the time 2012 rolls in, we're gonna have a major uproar and I can see a strong independent emerging and knocking out Obama and whoever the Repug nominee is. First of course is grabbing our Congress bums and throwing them out next year and 2012.
"I'm on Nader's side. What about you?"
I think Nader would say to you: "Thanks for your support, kid, but no thanks."
At least, that's would I would bravely say to you.
"I think Nader would say to you: "Thanks for your support, kid, but no thanks."
At least, that's would I would bravely say to you."
WRONG. Nader would actually be thanking me for not being an Obama apologist even if I live in a conservative state such as South Carolina. You're trying to make it look like Ralph Nader didn't want to run but ran anyway. Betcha can't tell us what Obama has done that's any better than what Mccain would have done, can ya'? Only a Democratic Party apologist would make such loser remarks like you just did.
I don't know how old you are, kid, but I'll bet you'd be in boot camp right now preparing to ship off to Iran or Korea under your commander-in-chief McCain. Think you're tough enough to try that?
Whereas now you'll only ship off to Afghanistan.
Thanks for the big difference.
I don't know how old you are, but it is in no way clear that Obama is much better than McCain.
Not even close. I'm in my 60s. Here's my record on my voting history. I voted twice for Nixon and twice for Raygun and Democrat in 1976 and 1988. I voted Perot twice and Nader thrice having gotten fed up with both parties. We may not be going to Iran but we sure as hell better be prepared to enter Afghanistan which will crumble our empire, er country, just like it has any other country trying to occupy it.
"Only a Democratic Party apologist would make such loser remarks like you just did."
You're in your sixties and you still talk to people like this?
Well, let me ask what all your voting has gotten you. You've voted for Nader 3 times (I, once) and you still think he has a chance of winning?
I don't, so I will vote for the lesser of the evils and work the other days of the year to make a difference. And I won't condescend to people and call them juvenile names.
But, that's just me.
Ted, please don't beat yourself up. In the case of Fred, he's the one responsible for being part of the gang that voted Nixon and Raygun twice into office and allowed them to completely mess up the Democratic Party. If Nixon and Raygun had not been elected, the Republican Party would have been more moderated to say the least and the Democratic Party would have been in far greater shape. Maybe Chris Matthews was right when he once said years ago on MSNBC that if JFK had survived that not even Ronnie Raygun would have made it to the White House. We may have our disagreements but I respect your vote even if some don't.
Oh look at that ! So now it's my fault that Obama's a dud because I voted Nixon and Raygun a long time ago? I was conservative in the 1970s and 1980s and the Democrats had nothing to offer better then and they have nothing better to offer now. You and Ted wanna still tell me to drink the Obama kool-aid ? Over my dead body ! The Democrats had their chances to show themselves but they blew it and all they can do is keep blaming the Repugs. The Democrats have been pandering to the Republicans for the last 40 years. I'm long past tired of being nice to both parties. We keep promising ourselves a whole new change but nooooooooooooooooooo, we still shoot ourselves out and vote status quo again and again.
Are you taking notes, Jennifer? Do you see how some of us feel when we dare to deviate from someone's narrow view of the world? Do you see how it feels to have someone build a straw man only to knock it down and say, "Hurray, I beat you!"
This is not helpful dialog. Hell, this is not dialog at all.
I understand all that but I think that party loyalty is ruining it for all of us. I'm not narrow minded but I think we're all losing our identity if we concede too far. And I'm upset with Fred for misjudging us too. I think I need to take a vacation from this site as some have suggested. I have readings to catch up on and maybe I've been getting fidgety in learning. Stay tuned.
Well, I understand the need for a vacation - I have one coming up. This can be a contentious place and we should all take a break from it now and then.
I agree re party loyalty. I am an independent, but do tend to vote Democrat when I see no viable alternative, which I have not seen for a while.
Be that as it may, all this talk about Obama/Nader/McCain is a lot of hoo-ha. While I realize that the President has a lot of clout, there is only so much any president can do within the current political structure reality. The corporate powers-that-be are arrayed against change, as we are seeing right now with health care reform, so no president can go against them and hope to do much. However, I still cling to my little rock outcropping and bleat on that it is up to the people to change things. Isn't very sexy tho. Certainly not as sexy as bleating about how bad the system is. It's all okay tho - each in its own measure.
Anyway, Jennifer, if you do go, I'll miss your posts. I've seen a change in you in just the last couple of months and you have much to offer. You are intelligent and conscientious and caring and that comes through. So, enjoy your reading and learning and please, don't stay away too long.
Ted
Hi Ted. I won't be away too long but sometimes I wonder about CD, Alternet, Truthout, etc ... and the fact that not much changes in the articles posted day to day. If I post everyday, I think I'll end up feeling too fixed and might even lose control of myself. I didn't feel like posting on today's articles even though I have a lot of sympathies. I also have quite a few things I wanted to do and possibly share my experiences and relate them to future articles on this site and similar. I used to be sounding a bit too harsh on those who supported Obama but when I see how not only he but also most everyone in Congress has gotten worse even beyond what we 3rd party people could even dream of, I don't really feel like saying "I told you so" as much as I used to. I feel like saying, "Ok, so we know it has gotten worse but how to correct it ?" There are many venues to solving the problems. We also need to connect the issues and I have mentioned that before but I will bring that up again so be on the lookout. For example, connect hemp and wars for oil, credit unions vs bailing out banks, and the likes.
PS:
Today, I actually enjoyed playing the piano (well, piano keyboard anyway since I don't have room for the piano yet) for the first time in 9 years after I gave up after I went to college. Two years ago on this day, my last piano teacher who was a sweetheart died at the age of 90 and I feel guilty for abandoning the piano for so long. I used to have the zeal and talent for playing the piano despite getting left out and it helped me combat loneliness to some extent even though I didn't realize that back then. My two favorite songs to play are "The Young and the Restless" theme and "Somewhere out there".
Well, enjoy your keyboarding and reading and whatever else you have planned. I played the piano as a kid, but never continued. Migrated to the trumpet, but didn't have a good embouchure.
I totally grok about the blogs. The internet is a double-edged sword in that we can connect with so many people, but the connections are anonymous. That anonymity allows some to say things they would never say in person, for obvious health reasons. And, it's easy to fall into.
Finally, I completely agree re connecting the issues. Too often we can't see the forest for the trees and fail to note that everything is connected. So, I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on that and more.
And now, it's time for me to say goodnight, Gracie. Goodnight, Gracie...and Jennifer. (If you don't get it, it's 'cause you're not old. ;-)
Oregoncharles
Thank you BeForKids! Recriminations are only helpful for a time (catharsis) but now we need to let it go! We have work to do.
Remember how horrible it was after Gore lost and Nader (and me!) were blamed, ridiculed, maligned for years? Was that helpful? No. Even though, I believe, we had the higher ground. Constant harassment is not helpful but will divide us and contribute to our failure. Maybe that's what some here actually want. Can't trust anyone these days, eh?
Let's make an effort to at least get on the same page so that we can work together for the change all of us want.
Charles,
I remember being blamed and ridiculed for Gore's loss for having supported Nader, much as I feel the recrimination today for having supported Obama. The Wedgies are right here on CD, pointing fingers and hurling dung at those who were voting their conscience.
I didn't think much of those who ridiculed Nader supporters in 2000. I think less of those who ridicule Obama voters today. We do the best with what we have at any given moment, and in that regard we are all in the same boat. Those who say they are above it all are only there because they have been hoisted up there by their own petards.
Was not Obama packaged and sold to a desperately needy country (after 8 years of Bush/Cheney) in the same ways and by many of the same people and advertising/PR professional liars who wrap slogans and visuals around any other "product" they push in this consumerist society? And thus many bought the package of "change you can believe in" without investigating what was inside the colorful enticing wrapper. Would the two-branched one party of militaristic global EMPIRE ever allow anyone to become their front man/POTUS who hadn't been carefully vetted as a full team player on the fundamental issues? And they don't mean protecting the Bill of Rights or supporting and preserving the general welfare of the people. Their issues are power and control and domination and greed, those core values of patriarchal male society--Hillary and Pelosi only get to play with the boys having proven that they understand the rules and goals of patriarchy and empire and will peform and act accordingly. Yes, apply for a refund, but don't expect to get it or even a reply any more than most get refunds on purchases of the many other products sold here with dramatic promises of change and hope. Many of them turn out to also have toxic contents and side effects. The package ain't the product. Thus the continuous need for colorful, distracting, cunning wrappers for the toxic goods being merchandised. As the ancients knew: buyer beware!
Sioux Rose
COURT JESTER: Excellent post.
After FISA, there were no excuses.
Not an excellent post at all.
Unbelievably, I find myself returning to the habits I held during the previous administration: I do not watch the staged press conferences but rather find a transcription of it later. I do this so I am not beguiled into the 'personality' trap. It brings more objectivity to the study of duplicity and deceit. Just the words please! - not the smiles, the rhetoric, the jokes, the personalisms with the crowd, the same worn and already tired jargon in each and every speech.
I think something we should all remember is that Obama actually got most of his money from corporations, not the small donors he so loudly publicized during the campaign. And when further analyzed, his numbers even on those contributions were suspect as he allegedly counted multiple small donations from the same donor as separate donations from separate donors.
Also, when asked directly in one press conference to respond to Bush's use of signing statements, Obama obviously hedged on the question, stating he felt it had been misused, but he wouldn't make a definitive judgment at that time. The consequence: his signing statements to the war funding bill where he stated that he will not go along with Congressional oversight of how money is used in the IMF, and that he disagreed with incorporating labor regulations in our trade agreements with foreign countries. Both these statements are in sync with what Bush would have done if he had been president. The IMF has, in the past, destroyed the economies of small countries and put them at the mercy of larger western economies; and if labor standards were upheld, the transnational corps would be forced to pay a living wage and decent benefits when they established businesses outside the US.
The days of worrying about throwing you vote away by voting 3rd party - those days are past. The "3rd Party" needs to become the new "2nd Party." Only when this happens will we see democratic principles reinvent themselves in what has become a malignant, greed-driven plutocracy.
I tried to watch ONE obama speech after I had got home from work. He said a few platitudes and then said "make no mistake....." Thats as far into it as I got.
I hate that phrase. GW Bush and Obama got the same speech writer. That or they use the same computer program that pumps out the same meaningless jargon.
GwNorth
Very good point. Obama used another specious phrase when he gave a speech in Cairo, Egypt on June 4 when he told his audience that:
"But let us be clear: Al Qaeda killed 3,000 people that day"
He then went on later in that passage to assure his audience that:
""These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with."
The mainstream media drew no particular attention to that part of Obama's speech though they most certainly should have. I think that it should be made, to use Obama's word, clear that, despite Obama's contention, what happened on 9/11 should certainly be debated. Was Obama elected to be a dictator or Big Brother who tells Americans what they should or should not be allowed to debate? Also, in spite of what Obama believes, the explanations given by the Bush administration concerning what occurred on Sept. 11, 2001 were not "facts" but rather a fairy tale that so many Americans and especially the mainstream media accepted on their face as being true.
What Obama said in that speech would seem to confirm that he has no intention of using his bully pulpit in urging that, in contrast to the 9/11 Commission, an open and honest and genuine investigation composed of scholars, engineers, architects, airline pilots, and families of 9/11 victims should be brought together in order to get to the bottom of what actually happened on Sept. 11, 2001.
Erroll June 28th, 2009 1:11 pm :
I just gave another $50 to the New York Coalition for a New 911 Investigation (http://nyccan.org/petition.php). They've got something like 50,000 signatures and just submitted their petition to have this on the ballot in New York this fall. This new investigation will have subpoena powers, something that the earlier, lie-filled whitewash didn't have. Now people will have to speak under oath.
Check out also:
http://www.911essentials.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
Also check out Adam Curtis' BBC documentaries such as Century of the Self, and The Trap, which detail the Nazi roots of today's neoconservative and neoliberal movements, and their use of fear, false flag ops, and the public relations industry to "manufacture consent." Kind of like the CIA's spending $400 million on Twitter and other color revolution tools in Iran in the past 6 months.
RE Obama: It's best not to vote based on looks, charisma, sound bites, or substanceless slogans. Read transcripts and critical articles. Unfortunately, this goes against the indoctrination of two generations raised on the primacy of moving images (and the inherent tendency of such images to subvert critical thinking). The teevee is the greatest weapon wielded by the elite class now robbing and (soon to be) enslaving us. Have you seen all those city corps type "volunteer" job postings for about $8/hr? Pretty soon that will be about the only jobs available. And there will be political litmus tests for employability a la Homeland Security's e-Check.
Also, check out the Voltaire Network's piece on a 911 FEMA videographer who has been granted political asylum in Argentina:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html
Why haven't the contents of the recovered black boxes been made public? Or why were the contents of security vaults beneath WTC emptied prior to 911? Who's fooling who here?
And why did American Airlines recently change their entry on wikipedia regarding flight 11 and 77? The new entry clearly states the last dates of said flights with aircraft tail numbers (it was prior to september 11, 2001). And the kicker is that NEITHER flight 11 or 77 FLEW ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. Hey, don't argue with me. It's American Airlines making the claim. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. But go back to sleep, people. Rumsfield and Cheney said AA11 and AA77 flew on 9/11 (you know, the flights from the "let's roll" and hole in the pentagon fame) so it must be true.
AGG June 28th, 2009 5:22 pm...The truth of 9/11 is getting much closer.....get ready...
The trigger for disclosure is money. There are people in the military that are highly pissed because wall street and the banks keep raking it in while military and GS (government service) pay rates aren't keeping up with inflation plus skyrocketing health insurance costs. The military feels used because, even though they love wars, they feel they are being shafted. They DO have the power to "let it all hang out" and the elite can't do a damned thing about it. The military can even do a "seven days in May" thing right here in the USA. Who's going to stop them? The greed of wall street/politicians has ignored our military. BIG mistake.
AGG
This is probably old news to most but I have just found out that there was a spin-off of the X-files series called The Lone Gunmen. In the pilot episode, which debuted on March of 2001, an airplane is hijacked and is barely pulled off course as it is being sent by remote control into, incredibly, the World Trade Center. Did not Condoleezza Rice ask after 9/11 who could have possibly predicted that an airplane would have been flown into a building like the WTC towers? Also amazingly, this brief TV program was seen on, of all places, FOX! Why did no one in the mainstream media raise this rather important fact to Ms. Rice and the American public?
American Airlines execs have stated that they lost no aircraft on 911. Of the dozen or so hi jacked planes that day, the four that went down had all been mothballed in a special facility for nine months. None had transponders to send out alarm transmissions, and all four had Airforce One "doomsday" continuity of government 747's in the vicinity with global hawk remote control technology on board. Many other anomalies such as 25% occupancy on the downed jets when the average that day was 90%. Much more needs explaining. No one in government lost their jobs for incompetence for 911. Quite a few promotions and a few dozen murders/suicides. I am not an expert on this stuff, but I do pay attention to "alternative" media and inconsistencies in the official story.
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646
If they wanted to maintain the secrecy of the conspiracy, wouldn't AA be insistent that those flights DID fly on Sept 11, 2001?
pjd412 June 28th, 2009 9:45 pm :
things are starting to unravel, with both good and bad things all on the table now...
important announcement from School of the Americas Watch -- just got it this evening:
Military Coup in Honduras-SOA WATCH
A military coup has taken place in Honduras this morning (Sunday, June 28), led by SOA graduate Romeo Vasquez. In the early hours of the day, members of the Honduran military surrounded the presidential palace and forced the democratically elected president, Manuel Zelaya, into custody. He was immediately flown to Costa Rica.
A national vote had been scheduled to take place today in Honduras to consult the electorate on a proposal of holding a Constitutional Assembly in November. General Vasquez had refused to comply with this vote and was deposed by the president, only to later be reinstated by the Congress and Supreme Court.
The Honduran state television was taken off the air. The electricity supply to the capital Tegucigalpa, as well telephone and cellphone lines were cut. Government institutions were taken over by the military. While the traditional political parties, Catholic church and military have not issued any statements, the people of Honduras are going into the streets, in spite of the fact that the streets are militarized. From Costa Rica, President Zelaya has called for a non-violent response from the people of Honduras, and for international solidarity for the Honduran democracy.
While the European Union and several Latin American governments just came out in support of President Zelaya and spoke out against the coup, a statement that was just issued by Barack Obama fell short of calling for the reinstatement of Zelaya as the legitimate president.
Call the State Department and the White House
Demand that they call for the immediate reinstatement of Honduran President Zelaya.
State Department: 202-647-4000 or 1-800-877-8339
White House: Comments: 202-456-1111, Switchboard: 202-456-1414
Visit
www.SOAW.org
and
www.SOAW.org/presente
for articles and updated information
Click here to watch TeleSur (in Spanish) for live updates
"These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with."
More pronouncement from on high.
("These are very bad people.")
We cannot debate - we do not have the facts.
We can therefore only theorize.
Read David Ray Griffin's well-anotated research works.
It's the nearest we have to the truth.
greed-driven plutocracy. yes. In 1976, the Supreme Court in Buckley v. Valeo ruled that money is speech, and that by restricting money in politics is therefore denying free speech. That ruling shifted power from the ballot box to the check book. We have lived through a de-industrialilzation of the nation, extreme public and private debt, wiping out of usury laws, endless military follies, and now look at the fight over so-called healthcare reform. Even cap and trade will be a financial boondoggle for players like Goldman-Sachs. Why? Because money is free speech and those with the most money scream the loudest.
If this is not changed we are just continuing to be suckers in their game.
An excellent piece! I neither financially supported nor voted for Obama, though I did share in the Audacity of Hope, feeling all along it would be dashed upon the trasheap of history.
His vote in favor of the telecom immunity was the dead giveaway to me. Keeping Gates on confirmed my suspicions.
The rest has been downhill, except for the random acts of lip service.
Marie, a bit of advice.
If a politician ever tells you to "HOPE" for something, run as fast away in the opposite direction as you can. (You might even choose to blow a whistle loudly while running to alert others to a crime in progress)
If a politician ever tries to get you to recite a mindless chant, for example, "YES WE CAN", again, run in the opposite direction as fast as you can. (P.S. He thinks you're very naive).
"HOPE" should be saved for church or prayers.
Mindless chants should be the exclusive domain of Sunday afternoon football games.
Now normally I wouldn't tell anyone to double-down on a bet, as it is a sure way to lose everything.
But I want you to invest another $680 and buy a ticket to DC.
Park yourself in front of the White House holding a sign that says 'RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION".
Don't leave until it is.
And pass the message along to the other 60 million dupes who voted the same way.
"Mindless chants should be the exclusive domain of Sunday afternoon football games."
yes we con!
yes we con!
yes we con!
chants we can believe in.
Yes we con!
Good old King Con!
If Ms. Marchand had read before the election either The Democrats: A Critical History by Lance Selfa or Savage Mules by Dennis Perrin she most likely would have realized that Obama was just one in a long line of Democrats who was going to be just as militant and imperialistic and just as much of a phony as the Republicans. A couple of weeks before the election my neighbor, looking at my button on my shirt, declared Nader to be an idiot. He has now, like Marie Marchand, expressed buyers' remorse for having voted for Obama.
During the campaign, Obama said he would withdraw our troops from the cities by June of '09. That is on track to happen by the end of this month, June '09. He said he'd get all of our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2011. So far, that is also on track, having reduced the number of troops in-country to pre-surge levels, already. He's doing exactly what he said he would on the timeline that he campaigned on.
And it was that campaign pledge that Maliki took up and forced the Bushies to agree to. They and McShame had no intention of ever leaving, but because Maliki and the Iraqi Parliament picked up his suggestion and ran with it, Obama can rightly claim to have put an end date on the Iraq Occupation before he was even elected.
If you had some idea that on January 21 09, all the troops would be on boats and planes heading home then you conned yourself. That was never part of Obama's plan because it's not physicaly, logistically possible.
And considering that we have 133,000 troops, probably as many contractors and hundreds of thousands of tons of equipment, getting those assets back home takes money. That's what the supplemental is for, to effect an orderly winddown and withdrawal. Cutting off funding would strand our people over there, is that what you voted for? And if you didn't notice, while Obama was campaigning against the war, he voted for the supplementals, did you miss that?
It seems many people on the Left had built up some serious flights of fantasy about Obama, created expectations that were not based on reality, not based on anything he said, but rather on wishfull thinking and pipedreams. And now they are "so disillusioned".
Get over it.
This is the real world.
Who the hell are you kidding? Obama is replacing troops with mercenaries in Iraq and for your own information, there were already more US military contractors in Iraq more than US soldiers so of course Obama was "free" to make a hey about it. All he's doing is shoving the troops into Afghanistan and Pakistan. Getting the troops and contractors back doesn't cost squat compared to keeping them there. Quit supporting the war criminals. Cutting the war funding will actually bring the troops back home. It worked in Vietnam war when then Senator Mike Gravel forced the Pentagon and Congress into cutting down on Vietnam War spending and it will work today on all our illegal wars !
Frederick J.
Very well said. As Kucinich attempted to point out during the campaign, apparently to no avail, there is already enough money in the pipeline to provide for the welfare of the troops and to make sure that they can finally exit from Iraq. But as you say, Obama is doing an end around by shifting soldiers from Iraq to Afghanistan which has now made Afghanistan Obama's war if not Obama's Vietnam [as well as ordering drone missiles to be rained down on innocent Pakistanis]which goes a long way in proving that the [alleged] former antiwar candidate is just as much of a warmonger as Bush and McCain are.
Another hole in CV's argument is that in order to withdraw troops you must fund the war. How about this: THE ONLY GOD DAMNED THING WE ARE GOING TO FUND IS AN AIRLINE TICKET HOME!!!
odoco
1)I believe Obama said he would remove our 'combat' troops from the cities by June 09 - did he not? My question is this: how many troops will be left in the cities after 09? And, how many of those troops will be the same troops as before, but their mission simply having been relabeled in order to fit the political rhetoric?
Want to visit about the continuing inhumanity embedded in our deadly little drone visits in Afghanistan and Pakistan? The continued slaughter of innocent civilians? Yes, yes, I know, we get some bad guys too - but I wonder how we would react in this country if another used the same tactics on us - would you not become a 'terrorist' yourself in order to repel the aggessor?
The status of forces agreement was, I believe, illegal as it actually constitutes a treaty which should have been discussed and voted on in the US Senate: Bush obviously and successfully breached this constitutional obligation, and I haven't heard our current president question it's origins to date - has he?
Want to talk about the Obama Department of Justice continuing to use states' secrets privilege to cover up the crimes of the Bush administration? Why would he do this? Two reasons: he doesn't want the political fight on the right - and he wants to maintain some of those very same powers for himself. Constitutionality? I think not.
Want to talk about the international law and its opinion on 'indefinite detentions?'
Want to talk about the signing statements on the war funding bill?
And as for the private contractors' departure from the war zones: many are there for a profit-originated purpose, and quite frankly, I couldn't care less how or when they return.
Want to talk about single payer health care?
And yes - I would love to talk about the positive things Obama has done thus far - start the conversation and let us all weigh in -
Odoco
Intelligently and persuasively well stated though I disagree about the private contractors being in Iraq. Neither military nor civilian mercenaries have a right forcing terror and oppression upon citizens of third world countries. Obama should be ordering ALL troops, civilian as well as military, out of Iraq post haste.
odoco
Erroll - of course you ar correct. Our troops, in their present situation, are nothing more than an occupying force employed by an imperialistic nation. Iraq was, and is, an illegal war. As such, immediate withdrawal and internationally agreed upon reparations would be the only credible way for the US to leave the country.
What concerns me most about Obama is his selected continued use of executive power - especially with regard to the use of the military in foreign lands. Has Congress declared war on either Afghanistan or Pakistan and I missed reading about it in the news???? Are our airstrikes in these sovereign countries not an act of war? I don't really care about the caretaker governments in those countries that have probably been bought and paid for by CIA / USA funds: what I care about is the constitutionality of the situation.
As for C's comments about getting realistic? If 'realistic' is the continued and expanded methodology of where we occupy and kill others for either their natural resource base, or for their forced military support of our regional escapades - THEN I AM ALL FOR CHANGING REALITY. The fact that it is 'real' does not equate with either law, or humanity.
CV, oh, I see, Obama is against war. Well, if that is true, why is he taking troops out of Iraq and sending them to Afghanistan? Are you against the war in Iraq but for the war in Afghanistan?
Do you buy into Obama's "exit bad war/enter good war" bullshit? Explain to us please what we are doing in Afghanistan and why we are justified in sending drones into Pakistan to murder innocent civilians. In my book that's terrorism. In my book Obama is a terrorist too. Go ahead, let's hear you justify war please.
I really despise you Obama-supporting "this is the real world- people get killed- get over it" liberals with passion.
-- Cutting off funding would strand our people over there --
Really, CV? That's incredible, because that's the same attitude that I had about staying in Vietnam.
I was 10.
"THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME".
Chains we can believe in, eh? I voted Green, as opposed to None of the Above.
Had the same effect too didn't it?
Nope.
Obama hasn't lied. He has kept every promise. If he didn't explicitly promise, he is not a liar.
This is Obama's schtick. He tells you how your lovely, beautiful, will "fight for you", and just believe. He'll give you that subtle impression that he's on your side. Then when he betrays you, he says to the effect "But I never said I loved you." He's a cad.
Yes "cad." And in a year at least half his supporters will grasp this.
PS the worse betrayal, i think, is Afghanistan because that has already expanded to include Pakistan--and the affliction of over 3 million starving refugees
You sound like one of the true believers who defended Bush from the same charges after WMD were never discovered in Iraq.
The fact is that Obama capitulated on several campaign promises.
Moreover, other issue like war escalation, covert air strikes on non-combatants in Pakistan and Afghanistan, along with TARP and FISA, a fantasy called clean coal, appointing corporate insiders and assassination general who did CHeney's biding, back door torture, are not the values I support regardless of what he said or did not say during the campaign.
It is his frigging policies that I am against, which mirror the Bush Admin.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
First, to be a critical thinker, you have to step out of the 'comfort zone' when you gather information. You have to look for information that will both 'prove' a position, as well as 'disprove' a position. That is a minimum requirement.
Obama (and Hillary) clearly did not support bringing an end to the war; support single payer health care; and offer a willingness to go after corporate corruption. It was evidenced by their voting record as well as their public statements.
And why did people like Marie Marchand support Obama and not consider Nader, McKinney or Mike Gravel? Because of their own failure to seek real solutions to their concerns; and because of their willingness to find a convenient response without bothering to consider the validity of it.
Sorry Marie, but you wouldn't have voted for Obama if you truly supported the progressive position that you claim you support.
Of course, I'm have also been disappointed with commondreams which has consistently supported the corporate candidates by giving them a platform; while giving only lip service to Nader, McKinney, Kucinich, Gravel, or Ron Paul. Check the archives to confirm that.
If I was Nader I wouldn't give commondreams permission to reprint his articles, since all they are trying to do is to buy some credibility in the progressive world, after failing to stand for progressive causes and candidates before the election when it could have made a difference.
Where was the outrage when Kucinich and Mike Gravel were excluded from the debates.
Those who continue to marginalize third party candidates are either doing it out of ignorance or malice (they don't really want the system changed).
www.NotOneMore.US
The only one you mentioned that would have gotten my vote would have been Gravel and he did not make it to the end.What was the dustup between Nader and the Greens?I dont trust him and there is no changing that.At 73 there is not a day goes by that a mistake will be made by me and that is life;if I were perfect there would be no need for me to even be born and that is one thing to look foward to for me.Have not seen bias here and the comments would bare that out.Am an independent voter and made a calculated decision on obama and have no intention of apologizing to anyone for my vote and dont give a shit what anyone thinks.
I'm with you on Gravel.
He helped put a stop to Vietnam AND the draft.
He was also the only candidate who denounced the nuclear "deterrent".
Guess he just wasn't butch enough to lead the free world.
But he's still active:
http://ni4d.us/
Don't trust Nader, huh. Astounding.
Are you paid by the word or the number of responses?
Marie,
I believe in your work for peace. Here is my offering:
Http://web.mac.com/ctb3
click on the photo numbers and wait to see the peace vigil paintings.
Thanking all of you for your hard work to bring peace.
Oregoncharles
I found the screen blank except for the links which lead to nothing.
I am sorry that it did not work for you. Perhaps you did not wait long enough after clicking on a photo number? Do you have enough memory to download a picture of a painting? Hey, thanks for the feedback!
I feel betrayed by Obama. I thought, that as a constitutional law professor he must have read the constitution, had some understanding of it, and hopefully even believed what it said and would take some steps to honor it and seek punishment for some of the most egregious violations by members of the Bush junta. I was wrong.
I felt that Obama had an opportunity to be an actual leader and at least offer important needed change, such as in health care when, in his video before the AFL-CIO in 2003: "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer health care program. ... A single-payer health care plan, a universal health plan. And that's what I'd like to see. And as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, we have to take back the House."
So much for hope - Obama so far seems little more than Bush light.
Yes, I too was impressed that Onama was a constitutional lawyer. Also, that he did a master's paper on Saul Alinsky, the great teacher of radical activism.
And if you were to watch the conservative media cover Obama, you'd "know" that Obama is putting Alinsky's tactics into effect. Oy, if only he would!
Hooray for Marie Marchand.
"Our hearts were desperate for hope."
there is nothing to hope for but hope itself.
1. Vote for A.
2. Get disillusioned.
3. Bitch.
4. Vote for B.
5. Get disillusioned.
6. Bitch.
7. Repeat.
Sigh...
Oh Ted. Now let me revise that for you starting with 7.
7. Think about what both A and B have done for/against you.
8. This time, see what C and possibly D have to offer.
9. Give C a chance over A or B.
:)
The only problem with your modification is that in our wonderful two party system we don't usually get the C or D choices.
That is true but we cannot afford to give up trying.
Right on, Jenny!
And may I add:
10. Make damned sure that C ISN'T a CIA pseudo populist trying to head us off.
Ah, but choice D can come in handy. :)
P.S.: Gatos1014, Frederick, Johnson and BeforKids brought up an interesting point that we really don't have a 2nd party to begin with. Maybe we really need to verify a real choice B and make sure it isn't choice A disguised as B.
Okay, now it's time for me to sigh...
Jennifer, I've been down the trail you think you're blazing. There are quite a few of us who have been down that trail. It's not a new trail at all.
Jennifer, I supported and campaigned for Nader. I met Nader. I like Nader. But Ralph Nader will never, ever, ever, be president. Dreams die hard, but that's life. If you want to vote for Nader or C or D, do so, but please stop patronizing us who have already tried doing what you think is brand spanking new. It ain't. Furthermore, if I were to keep doing what I know won't work, I'd be crazy. While I may be a bit tetched, crazy I'm not.
How about we try this: You keep bashing Obama as if that's going to help anything, and I'll keep voting for the lesser of the evils as if that's going to help anything, but let's please just agree to keep working for the common good. What we do one day every four years means squat compared to what we do the other 1,459 days.
It seems like the only time I run into you is in the threads about Obama. There is a lot of good work that is going on and there are even some posts here on CD about them - and they have nothing to do with Obama or any other candidate for president. I'd love to meet you there. I'd love to hear about what you are doing.
As dear old Rumi said: "There is a place beyond the ideas of rightdoing and wrongdoing. I'll meet you there."
Ted, I'm not limiting this to Nader alone. I don't want to bash Obama but what he's doing issue after issue only pushes us to it. Of course I agree to work for the common good. I don't post on Obama alone. Did you see other posts in other articles? I don't get into foreign policy ones for the most part. I didn't know that you had campaigned for Nader before or maybe I lost track but I will keep that in mind. I might have to question that we really have a choice B to begin with though. It's not that I expect B to be totally different from A but since B is 90% like A, it's as could as saying two versions of A. Just ask odoco. He can explain this better.
"Just ask odoco. He can explain this better."
I don't think he can, Jennifer - I think you do fine.
I get the similarities and the differences, my friend - I really do. I've seen plenty of it and read more of it. All this is nothing new. The history of politics - which goes back thousands of years - is replete with this stuff. I get it.
What I have been saying (sorry for repeating), is that this is a side show. Politics is real, and it affects us in real ways, but it isn't the only way of getting things accomplished - nor the major way, really. Certainly, when it comes to elections, it is far removed from accomplishing what we want. However, on election day, we are faced with a Sophie's choice: Give them one child, or lose them both. It's ugly and mean, but that's what we are faced with every four years. I wish to all that is meaningful that it weren't so, but it is. So, in order to maintain what little sanity I have left, I work for the good of the world the rest of the days - no matter who is president.
While I'd love to scream in Obama's face and ask him what the hell he thinks he's doing, I also know that many people believed in him. Some out of naivete, but many out of desperation for something to pin their hope on. Tearing him down is akin to tearing them down. I won't do that.
We're all in this together. If we could only remember that...
"Tearing him down is akin to tearing them down".Love it and will try to keep my 2 fingers in check and yes we are in it together. Write things that pop into my head,it's old but still relevent.
NEW YEARS DAY 2007 MUSINGS
1) Essential: To be alive; it is essential to be here to have anything happening in the new year.
2) Understood: Got to have family; without which, matters not the size, we get no genes and hence no smiles and no gene pool.
3) Pleasure, pain: Our own gene pool; If this does not describe kids I have done a Rip Van Winkle. Per cents? 95 pleasure 5 pain.
4) Nice: Neighbors; Nice neighbors are nice and since they can be so close they might be among that 5%.
5) Beautiful: Friends; Here is where many sit, mother, father, sister, brother, kids, wife, husband, gal, guy from anywhere, pets and UFO riders. As all know there can be and are some 5%ers here.
6) Fabulous: Freedom; I would not leave home without it and maybe I couldn’t.
7) Desired: No war; The only negative here besides the 5%ers and so according to my math makes it a positive. Not Bal. math.
8) Treasure Trove: Love; Can we all see that this is the treasure trove as it encompasses all the others and makes them come alive as deeds and not just as sayings that I have written down? The 5% is part of the whole and so we tuck that in with love also.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!!!
Tony 12/30/07
What a bunch of sell-outs.
What mealy-mouthed mushy-headed excuses for being sell-outs.
It's not the radical right wing that's killing this country - it's the anti-Nader Obysmalites.
Ted, thank you for your clear-headed, adult comments above.
I especially liked this part: "please stop patronizing us who have already tried doing what you think is brand spanking new. It ain't. Furthermore, if I were to keep doing what I know won't work, I'd be crazy."
This was all very predictable.
I was sitting and watching the 2004 Demo convention which crowned Kerry and up steps this political nonentity to give the keynote.
Who is this guy, anyway? Why, Wall Street’s, that’s who. Shortly after the Kerry meltdown, the talking heads are saying "Barak Obama is being mentioned as a possible candidate in 2008" Over and over. So here's this first term junior senator putting together this big money machine and getting all this money from Wall St. and Silicon valley and making a few progressive noises on the side.
Meanwhile, Dennis Kucinich is down in the trenches fighting for the people. The corporate press had nothing good to say about Kucinich except to say he believed in UFOs and "couldn't win" when they weren't completely ignoring him, but heaped adoration upon our pseudo-Black candidate. There's more, but that should have set alarm bells ringing. I gave Kucinich hundreds in two election cycles and not one dime to Mr. Hope/Change/Yes we can.
Yep,
It is all crazy, but if we don't unite, we will lose again. I hope we learned that much.
People will never unite around politics. By its nature, politics is divisive.
If we can unite at all, it will have to be outside of the bounds of politics - where the real work is done. I'm lucky that I have such a place to unite with others and do good, satisfying, meaningful work.
Ted, I am lucky too.
And even in my field of folk music the themes of solidarity and the struggle for peace and happiness is out front and never ends.
When will they (we) ever learn? Not sure, but it is worth the fight.
Best to Ya