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TechnoratiHow Wall Street Can Bail Itself Out Without Destroying The Dollar
For Grover "Drown Government In The Bathtub" Norquist, this bailout deal will work out very well. At a proposed cost of $4,780 per taxpayer, it'll further the David Stockman strategy of so indebting us that the next president won't have the luxury of even thinking of new social spending (expanding health care, social security, education, infrastructure, etc.); taxes will even have to be raised just to pay for the bailout. It'll debase our currency, driving up commodity prices and interest rates, which will benefit the Investor Class while further impoverishing the pesky Middle Class, rendering them less prone to protest (because they're so busy working trying to pay off their debt). It'll create stagflation for at least the next half decade, which can be blamed on Democrats who currently control Congress and, should Obama be elected, be blamed on him.
But there's another way: Create an agency to fund the bailout, loan that agency the money from the treasury, and then have that agency tax Wall Street to pay us (the treasury) back.
It's been done before, and has several benefits.
In the United Kingdom, for example, whenever you buy or sell a share of stock (or a credit swap or a derivative, or any other activity of that sort) you pay a small tax on the transaction. We did the same thing here in the US from 1914 to 1966 (and, before that, we did it to finance the Spanish American War and the Civil War).
For us, this Securities Turnover Excise Tax (STET) was a revenue source. For example, if we were to instate a .25 percent STET (tax) on every stock, swap, derivitive, or other trade today, it would produce - in its first year - around $150 billion in revenue. Wall Street would be generating the money to fund its own bailout. (For comparison, as best I can determine, the UK's STET is .25 percent, and Taiwan just dropped theirs from .60 to .30 percent.)
But there are other benefits.
As John Maynard Keynes pointed out in his seminal economics tome, The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money in 1936, such a securities transaction tax would have the effect of "mitigating the predominance of speculation over enterprise."
In other words, it would tamp down toxic speculation, while encouraging healthy investment. The reason is pretty straightforward: When there's no cost to trading, there's no cost to gambling. The current system is like going to a casino where the house never takes anything; a gambler's paradise. Without costs to the transaction, people of large means are encourage to speculate - to, for example, buy a million shares of a particular stock over a day or two purely with the goal of driving up the stock's price (because everybody else sees all the buying activity and thinks they should jump onto the bandwagon) so three days down the road they can sell all their stock at a profit and get out before it collapses as the result of their sale. (We ironically call the outcome of this "market volatility.")
Investment, on the other hand, is what happens when people buy stock because they believe the company has an underlying value. They're expecting the value will increase over time because the company has a good product or service and good management. Investment stabilizes markets, makes stock prices reflect real company values, and helps small investors securely build value over time.
Historically, from the founding of our country until the last century, most people invested rather than speculated. When rules limiting speculation were cut during the first big Republican deregulation binge during the administrations of Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, and Herbert Hoover (1921-1933), it created a speculative fever that led directly to the housing bubble of the early 20s (which started in Florida, where property values were going up as much as 70 percent per year, and then spread nationwide, only to burst nationally starting in 1927 as housing values began to collapse), then the falling housing market popped the stock market bubble and produced the great stock market crash of 1929. That speculation aggregated enormous wealth in a very few hands, crashed the housing and stock markets, and produced the Republican Great Depression of 1930-1942.
Franklin D. Roosevelt, as part of the New Deal, put into place a series of rules to discourage speculation and promote investment, including maintaining - and doubling - the Securities Transaction Excise Tax. Other countries followed our lead, and the UK, France, Japan, Germany, Italy, Greece, Australia, France, China, Chile, Malaysia, India, Austria, and Belgium have all had or have STETs.
Perhaps the most important benefit of immediately re-instituting a STET in the USA, however, isn't that it would raise enough money to bail out the banks and billionaires (and after that crisis is covered, could pay for a national health care system), or that it would encourage investment and calm down markets. Those are all strong benefits, and absent the current Republican Administration bailout proposal would stand-alone strongly.
But the Republican Bush Administration is currently suggesting that we borrow $700 billion (or more) from China and Saudi Arabia and other countries and investors, add that to our national debt, and repay it with interest (making the actual cost over the next 20 years over $1.4 trillion). This is what Republican Herbert Hoover tried in 1931 when he first created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (later totally reinvented by FDR) to bail out the banks in 1931. Hoover's RFC bailed out the bankers, paid off huge salaries in the banking and investment world, bought him a few months (maybe that's the real goal of the Bush/McCain Republicans now - just hold things together until after the elections), but ultimately led to the failure within two years of virtually all the banks in the United States. The bailout failed.
Similarly, in 1998 the Japanese banks were facing a serious crisis of liquidity as the result of a bursting housing bubble in that country. The Japanese government used public funds to re-float a number of large banks that year, and it similarly failed. In one example out of dozens, in 1998 135 billion Yen were given from public tax funds to Ashikaga Financial Group, but the company limped along for a few years and in November of 2003 collapsed again, requiring a second infusion of a trillion yen from public coffers. And, as the BBC reported in a 30 November 2003 article ("Japan Bank Bail-Out 'A One-Off'"): "But experts warn that Ashikaga could be just the tip of the iceberg." Professor of Finance at Tokyo University Takehisa Hayashi said, "It will come as no surprise if we see another Ashikaga case in the near future." And they did.
Japan continues to limp along, as a result of bailing out banks rather than fixing structural problems. (At least the Japanese had enough savings to use their own money, instead of debt, to bail out their banks.)
So bailouts don't work, and never have. And they also have the side effects of damaging a nation's credit, sucking up its taxpayers resources, and (when done with debt) weakening its currency.
So let's go back to what we know works. After Hoover's 1931 bailout of the banks failed, FDR did a cold reboot of the entire system, putting into place strong rules to prevent speculative abuse. And he doubled the STET tax, both producing revenue that more than funded the Securities and Exchange Commission and further prevented a repeat of the speculative bubble of the 1920s that led directly to the Republican Great Depression.
We've done it before. We financed the Spanish American War and partially financed the Civil War, WWI, and WWII with STETs. We stabilized our stock market with a STET from the mid-30s to 1966, and other nations are doing it today. It's time to do it again, this time using the STET so tax Wall Street can pay for its own bailout.
113 Comments so far
Show AllIn 1934 FDR instated the up-tick rule to prevent the short sellers from ruining
any stock they short. This rule was active until GEORGE BUSH cancelled it one
weekend about 2years ago. This rule SHOULD BE REINSTATED. Ingrid
Message received!
First off the author knows prescious little about investment history. That long term, carefully considered "investment" drove the good ole days is pure hokum. Gambling/trading/whatever has driven a lot of our economic history. Use of the word "bubble" to describe speculative market frenzy emerged in the 1690s. Daniel Defoe wrote about them as a financial journalist. See: South Sea Bubble, Tulip Mania, The Mississippi Bubble, The Rail Road Bubble, Japan Real Estate etc. (Devil Take the Hindmost) I'm not saying that's a good thing. At the heart of each of these bubbles is rank criminality. I'm sure it is at the heart of this bubble too.
Second, I suspect short term trading/speculation is primarily a reaction to market manipulation, not the creator of it. I'm sure institutional traders are up to all sorts of monkey business; however, when so many investment vehicles--collateralized debt obligations, credit default swaps--are glorfied ponzi schemes so what's the point of long term investment? How do you make a good faith investment in GM when the companied is "insured" through swaps at 5X its market cap? The overwhelming market pressure will be to destroy GM no matter how the company attempts to compete because the company is worth more dead than alive. Most of these transactions take place in private, away from public view. Investors are hosed by what they don't know. The only way to win at all is to be just as cynical as the mofos who created this mess or to not to be involved at all (totally debt free with gold and silver buried in the backyard).
I used to think trading was speculative. Now I see it as defensive.
Still, I'm in favor of curbing antisocial behavior like that suggested in STET, so long as it applied to derivatives and all over the counter trades.
I would not favor a flat per trade tax. That just penalizes the small time traders who are at least putting their own money at risk. If the tax is not proportional to the size of the trade the big boy institutional traders (who are playing with OPM, namely yours and mine in one way or another) will not be bothered or influenced.
Turned from distracting smoke and mirrors, the real problem belongs not to "Wall Street" and those whose game of choice is trading in what they like to call a "free market" but to the neighborhoods of "Main Street" losing credit and credibility to empty, unmaintained properties foreclosed upon in a frenzy of insanity.
These properties are "real" estate. They have value. Not so high as the bubble tried to make us believe, but real value, especially to those who thought of them as "home." A real cure for what ails US economy would encourage the profit motive and sanity, enlist investors (looking desperately for somewhere to put the money they have taken out of karmically challenged investment banks) to buy these properties and work out mortgage or rental arrangements with those who want to live in and maintain them, by-pass the whole evil episode and get back to market trade based on real values that can be easily understood by Main Street and learned through experience by Wall Street.
Congress ought to demand unbundled mortgages be sold at bargain basement prices to local financial institutions and groups then required to work out equitable arrangements with homeowners/residents to keep them in those homes. This is how it should have been, mortgages held by community lenders who have a stake in keeping the community healthy and the authority to work out compromise arrangements with their customers.
Just a Question: wouldn't a flat Tax of one dollar Per Trade in any of the Markets Be a better tax? Say $x.¢ or just 0.x¢ per trade would seem to equalize the burden of the tax upon all investors--more so than Any Percentage rate applied to trades. The percentage Rate accllerates the tax-Revenue-income to the (an) agency , but wouldn't a Flat tax on a Gazzilion investor trades per year in each of the various exchanges generate sufficient Rainy-day-funding to bail out Wall Street?
snydly
Here are a few things to consider: Put a low, fair and fixed rate re-fi on toxic commercial loans. Cap CEO and exec pay at top GS level until they are off the bailout. Require CEO and board to certify that their pre-bailout actions were legal. Require that corporation comply w/ all federal regs on labor, environment, equal pay for women, etc. Prohibit a bailed-out corporation from going off-shore or being acquired by a foreign entity until bailout repaid. Before bailout can proceed, recover 75% of CEO and board pay, bonuses and option profit from the point they started issuing the bad credit.
You must be able to see by now that this is just a going away gift to the US creditors, China and Saud et al, so that they could acquire our assets clear of debt and at pennies on the dollar, in order for them to keep funding our consumption. DON'T CAVE. STAND STRONG. PROTECT YOUR NATION. REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!!
Thank you for your vote of confidence, Atheist! But, if nominated, I shall not run; if elected, however, I'll bring the white-out and the common sense!!
The way to fix our problems is to put all of the criminals in jail (maybe Abu Graib) and put commom sense regulations on the books!!!!
I'd like to live long enough to see out nation governed by actual leaders - persons of honesty and integrity, who understand that is is possible for everyone to work together and share the fruits of our labor a little more equitably. I'm not all that hopeful it will happen in my lifetime any more.....
Thom has a good plan and if it looks like he is pandering to the Democrats it is because he has an excellent knowledge of history. By using history to explain his plan he is simply stating facts and the facts are that the Democrats have cleaned up a lot of messes that wouldn't have been cleaned up by the Republicans, at least certainly not for the good of the country. The Grand Old Party usually looks out for itself first as they are doing right now. AS it stands now we have been screwed and are about to get screwed again and there doesn't appear to be any mention of changing the rules. I haven't once heard the term 'reregulation.'
snydly
Here are a few things to consider: Put a low, fair and fixed rate re-fi on toxic commercial loans. Cap CEO and exec pay at top GS level until they are off the bailout. Require CEO and board to certify that their pre-bailout actions were legal. Require that corporation comply w/ all federal regs on labor, environment, equal pay for women, etc. Prohibit a bailed-out corporation from going off-shore or being acquired by a foreign entity until bailout repaid. Before bailout can proceed, recover 75% of CEO and board pay, bonuses and option profit from the point they started issuing the bad credit.
You must be able to see by now that this is just a going away gift to the US creditors, China and Saud et al, so that they could acquire our assets clear of debt and at pennies on the dollar, in order for them to keep funding our consumption. DON'T CAVE. STAND STRONG. PROTECT YOUR NATION. REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!!
What good is the plan? Do you know what bipartisan means? How do you know that his historic interpretation is accurate? Are you a historian?
You state with ignorant bravado, "The Grand Old Party usually looks out for itself first as they are doing right now." Your sentiments represent nothing more than a Democratic apologetic, because it disguises the truth of culpability by Democrats who are knee deep in the same pot of shit. Furthermore, these types of sentiments expose a total lack of understanding for how the system works, thus undermining your entire missive simply because it is false.
Every Democratic pundit is now asserting that Sen. Gramm's legislation written in 1999 is the source of our current problems. In point of FACT, Gramm's legislation turned into a bipartisan bill, and SIGNED INTO LAW BY BILL CLINTON!
Gramm's legislation (like most Bills) morph into a bipartisan efforts before ever becoming law. No single ideology prevails in legislation. The fact that you do not understand this axiom demonstrates why they get away with it. So contrary to your views, the Democrats have never looked out for regular people. They look out for themselves, just like the Republicans.
The following link tells the historic rendering of Gramm's Bill once it hit committee, which was supported by 90 US Senators in its final draft (the majority of Repulicans and Democrats) voted for the reconfigured Bill, which the Dems are now asserting they had nothing to do with. Facts? You would not know an actual fact if it took a bite out of your rear end.
My dear, you are using the word "fact" to support your gross ignorance of both history, and the truth.
SOURCE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
Nader reported the financial melt down back in July (refer to Hedges article) and offered significant proposals to insure the protection of main street. It went ignored by the power brokers in both status quo parties.
Hartmann on the other hand spins everything he says or writes to exalt the Democrats. His current ideas are hardly relevant given that a bipartisan bill will be signed into law probably by Monday. It seems to me that Hartmann's article is a day late and a dollar short.
Where was Hartmann when it mattered? Hartmann is a eco/political opportunist who only appears when the news (or the shit) hits the fan. Had he delivered his latest proposal (which sounds more like a sermon now) back when it might have made a difference, perhaps a conversation might have started. As it stands, it is worthless now.
What this article represents is pandering to his base after the fact for the sake of building his reputation and his bank account. I would need to check his historic analysis before commenting on his ideas or signing on. But assuming they are backed by his interpretation, then perhaps something in them might have been useful. But given the process has been underway for a week with Democrats and Republicans looking to protect their corporate handlers while sweeping a few crumbs off the table for the masses, Hartman's interjection for a prescription is suspect. Had he simply offered a critique, then he has the right to join every one else. But a prescription after the fact serves no one save himself.
Nader is always ahead of the curve looking out for regular people as his efforts demonstrated back in July. Conversely, Hartmann is only looking out for his own prestige, fame, and his bank account by jumping into the debate now.
You obviously don't listen to Thom Hartman.
Let the market crash and work itself out. There is one big silver lining to letting the market crash. Foreign nations would no longer seek to exchange their exports for our debt.
The value of the Dollar would decline on the currency market and America would have to pay for imports by exports.
Bless you Rich M.
Leave it to fake lefty CommonDreams to push the notion that these criminals should be bailed out.
I like the natural model in this instance, survival of the fittest. These institutions are obviously not fit to survive and are too big a burden for us to carry.
If congress can pass retroactive immunity, I'm sure when direct democracy comes to rule this land, we the People, can pass retroactive criminality and lifetime jail the whole lot.
There's a petition being taken for National Referendum, incidentally. It's at http://www.ni4d.org
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
The "natural model" was applied by Andrew Mellon in 1929 when he opposed any intervertion in the hopes that the system would flush itself out. It didn't work so well.
Forget the dollar, here's a better way the bank robbers can be "bailed out" without causing any new TAXPAYER pain - like handing over a trillion for toxic assets - and it's a plan that's not being discussed at all.
Close all 700+ bases and military golf courses worldwide, bring all the troops home - that's $200 billion right there, and another $200 billion via Iraq/Afghanistan withdraw. Slice another $200 billion off the top of the Pentagon's $1 trillion dollar blank check, no arguments. There's $600 billion. Collect all hidden corporate taxes - off-shore, etc. Another $100 billion. Close all tax loopholes, and audit the top 1% with a fine-tooth calculator. Another $100 billion, easy.
Just there, we got $800 billion with no new cost to the taxpayers.
But not a single Red or Blue has even suggested cuts to raise the cash they wanna hand over to their bank robber buddies. Every proposal, even the one above, revolves around the "right" way to GIFT and OVERSEE our $700 billion - and just assume we'll just print it and put it on the tab.
Best and the brightest, eh?
Why should the US tax payer, pay for the mismanagement of billionaire bankers?
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
.
NEWSFLASH:
Ralph Nader will be on the Bill Maher show at 11pm Eastern / 8PM Pacific tonight.
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Ouh wonderful, another opportunity to observe a traitorous operative!
Nader is owned by the Plaintiff's Bar, who are the richest lawyers in America. They have a mutual back scratching relationship.
Note that he's running against the Green party candidate Cynthia McKinney. Mountain of virtue he is, stabbing his own party in the back. Spoiler candidate for his own party this year... I wouldn't be saying this if he'd have sought the VP slot on the green ticket. Which is what he would have done if he wanted to win the election for the people. Instead he's playing the part of further dividing the vote, rather than uniting people to the cause. Divisionist? Obviously he's not on the people's side. He's doing what he does to further his own narrow interest and serve the interests of the big money lawyers who fund his posh lazy globe trotting lifestyle.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
rocyahsoul September 27th, 2008 2:21 am
"He's doing what he does to further his own narrow interest and serve the interests of the big money lawyers who fund his posh lazy globe trotting lifestyle."
Nader doesn't own a house or a car and gives most of his income away. Some posh lifestyle.
Lobo Gris
rock your soul,
you are an idiot.
Nader is not running "against the Green party candidate Cynthia McKinney... stabbing his own party in the back". He is running for President, just like each of the other non-DemRep candidates.
And your ridiculous distortions about Nader's lifestyle... you're not just an idiot, you're a liar.
Why do so many posters here just take up space and waste time with ridiculous idiocy? Seems like there are other agendas...
Here's my idea. Since all of this to-do is about big numbers written on pieces of paper - 'cause money (dollars) don't really "exist" they just "represent"
work or product or worth.
So, let's get a huge supply of White-Out (that would be an economic boon to the company that makes it) and then white out all of the nasty numbers we don't like on balance sheets, bank statements and government records. Then we will have a
"blank slate" and we can start up our economy all over again at ZERO!
Brilliant. NO????
This is just another way of describing hyper-inflation, and if you like the sound of it, you're in luck, because it's about to cancel all debts no matter what our pathetic Congress and the sadistic little retard in the White House decide to do.
The downside is that hyper-inflation cancels all savings along with all debts, and a lot of retired boomers will soon be sleeping on the street.
Jacob Freeze
Careful with the word retard. 95% of America is retarded due iodine deficiency. Bush on the other hand is working quick. He's intently working against the interest of many and succeeding.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
Amitola for President !!!!!! :-)
I am in favor of Wall Street bailing itself out. Why should the people who do not play gamble at the Casino(s) on Wall Street. Let Wall Street have a cake sale or something.
Thank you thank you thank you for comparing stock investments to gambling, as I always do. We never get a cut of their profits, why should we cover their losses ? Same is true of real estate. Caveat emptor !
Sioux Rose
QUICKSTEPPER: Thank you for the acknowledgement.
RICH M: You are a human bull shit detector! If our nation was run on laws, you'd be GREAT in law enforcement. You have an uncanny ability to see to the weakness in just about any system or protocol. Your words sometimes hit me the way a chiropractor does a good spinal adjustment. (I'd love to see YOUR birth data!)
Thanks, SR. (Pssst -- it's June 14, 1948. If that leads you to any interesting conclusions, you could go to this article, & share them with me via the address at the bottom of the page.)
June 14th...Flag Day... Happy Belated Birthday...
My son is a "Flag baby too"...
Why can't Hartmann and others with creative ideas on this be heard by our "representatives"?
Yes, its a scam, and they blackmail those who disagree with it, via media noise and droning repetition of the scare.
Never thought of it this way ???
I'm against the $85 BILLION bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It" dividend. To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. citizens, aged 18+.
Our population is about 301 million counting every man, woman and child. So, 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up. Now, divide 200 million, 18+ adults into $85 billion - that equals $425,000.00 each! Yes, my plan is to give that $425,000 to every adult as a "We Deserve It" dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So, let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Everyone would pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 billion right back to Uncle Sam! It also means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife would have $595,000.00!
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00?
Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads.
Put away money for college – it'll really be there.
Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car – create jobs .
Invest in the market – capital drives growth.
Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves.
Enable deadbeat parents to come clean – or else.
Remember this is for every adult U.S. citizen, 18 and older (including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehmann Brothers and every other company that is cutting back) and of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it! Instead of trickling out a puny $1,000.00 "economic incentive".
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U.S. citizen!
As for AIG – liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
We deserve the money and AIG doesn't. Sure it's a crazy idea, but can you imagine the coast-to-coast block party?!
How do you spell Economic Boom? W-e D-e-s-e-r-v-e I-t d-i-v-i-d-e-n-d! I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion "We Deserve It" dividend more than do the 'geniuses' at AIG or in Washington, D.C..
And remember, my plan only really costs $59.5 billion because $25.5 billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. Good idea? I think so.
If you see a major flaw in this thinking please let me know...................................................
hey great idea but I hate to break it to you but 85B divided by 200M is only 425.oo... and unfortunately thats not much these days...
Why double tax? The bailout is taxpayer money already.
When was this about tax payer money?
It never was about money, This 700b swindle was, is, and will be about CREDIT.
Deficeit spending is CREDIT. Paulson's middle name is CREDIT. CREDIT is the opposite of money! CREDIT is about the interest rate! CREDIT is about the fear when you don't repay.
And CREDIT is what Bush/Obama/McCain insist upon.
CREDIT is about the current 70trillion debt we currently have. That 70trillion is up 20trillion from just 2 months ago. Credit has that effect when challenged.
Nader/Gonzales flatly say NO to 700b swindle.
wild ;)
I wrote something similar to this, but based it on tax returns of individual human beings, like single moms, head of household, filing jointly, number of dependents etc., but no corporate tax returns, no CEO and other officers, no Political office holders from local to fed, no return to NGOs of non-profit and officers, etc.
I like it, I can go whole hog green!
Never thought of it this way ???
I'm against the $85 BILLION bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It" dividend. To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. citizens, aged 18+.
Our population is about 301 million counting every man, woman and child. So, 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up. Now, divide 200 million, 18+ adults into $85 billion - that equals $425,000.00 each! Yes, my plan is to give that $425,000 to every adult as a "We Deserve It" dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So, let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Everyone would pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 billion right back to Uncle Sam! It also means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife would have $595,000.00!
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00?
Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads.
Put away money for college – it'll really be there.
Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car – create jobs .
Invest in the market – capital drives growth.
Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves.
Enable deadbeat parents to come clean – or else.
Remember this is for every adult U.S. citizen, 18 and older (including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehmann Brothers and every other company that is cutting back) and of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it! Instead of trickling out a puny $1,000.00 "economic incentive".
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U.S. citizen!
As for AIG – liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
We deserve the money and AIG doesn't. Sure it's a crazy idea, but can you imagine the coast-to-coast block party?!
How do you spell Economic Boom? W-e D-e-s-e-r-v-e I-t d-i-v-i-d-e-n-d! I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion "We Deserve It" dividend more than do the 'geniuses' at AIG or in Washington, D.C..
And remember, my plan only really costs $59.5 billion because $25.5 billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. Good idea? I think so.
If you see a major flaw in this thinking please let me know...................................................
There is a major flaw in your mathematics!
What he said! I cant wait for my check!!!
Well, since you asked....The major flaw in your thinking is that our treasury is spoken for and not by we the people.
Putting that much money into circulation might actually cause a loaf of bread to retail for $100......hell, let 'em eat cake.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Obama the democrat stands behind his 'vote for change' and yet he will vote for 700b swindle.
McCain the maverick claims: 'new leadership' and yet he will vote for 700b swindle.
Nader the raider claims: leadership is clearly responsible to the people...
NO BAILOUT,
END WAR,
IMPEACH you know who,
SINGLE PAYER NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE,
CUT MILITARY BUDGET,
$10.OO MINIMUM WAGE,
NO NUCLEAR-SOLAR FIRST,
just to name a few.
http://www.votenader.org/issues/
http://www.votenader.org/issues/corporate-crime/
wild;)
.
About Ralph Nader
Attorney, author, and consumer advocate Ralph Nader has been named by Time Magazine one of the "100 Most Influential Americans in the 20th Century."
For more than four decades NADER has exposed problems and organized millions of citizens into more than 100 public interest groups advocating solutions.
NADER led the movement to establish ...Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Consumer Product Safety Commission,
Nader was instrumental in enacting the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and countless other pieces of important consumer legislation.
Because of RALPH NADER we drive safer cars, eat healthier food, breathe better air, drink cleaner water, and work in safer environments.
Nader graduated from Princeton University and received an LL.B from Harvard Law School.
http://www.votenader.org/issues/
.
Nader is silent on global humanity threatening World Oil Production Decline.
Nader is silent on the impending Ice Age. Search commondreams.org for "ice age", read How Global Warming May Cause the Next Ice Age.
Nader is in bed with immensely wealthy people.
Nader is a globe trotting play boy financed by the Plaintiff Bar (literally wealthiest lawyers in America) who HATES Americans based on his having been rejected by nearly the whole country so many times now it's laughable.
Nader is running AGAINST the Green Party candidate Cynthia McKinney, thereby DIVIDING the Green Vote.
Nader is, like the local News, silent about the 80%+ humidity that has been the daily average for more than a year because the chief industrialists intently melted off the Northern ice cap.
Solar panels require MORE energy to produce than they can possibly put out across their lifetime. Solar is a solution if it's used to power a heat engine aka Sterling Engine, which is amongst the technology suppressed in the 1800s like the fire fighting sprinkler system that still aren't installed where 90+% of people live. But surely that's not what Nader is talking about when he's talking about solar power. The only reason Nader says anything about Solar power is because greatly confused people, most people, THINK it's a miracle solution when in reality it's part of the problem. If Nader really had a clue as to how to repair the fossil fuel infrastructure we're dependent on he'd push GeoThermal, Wind, Wave, Tidal, Waterfall and River Power. It seems to me, he doesn't even care to know the solutions, never mind push them into the mass conscience. He's the kid your bully sons gave a wedgy to every morning in middle school. He wants to see you and your bully kids to a dirt nap.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
If you rightly 'DIVIDE' call it a 5 way presidential race: McCain/Obama/Nader/Mckinney/Barr, are all competitive for the position. It is relevant that Nader is against Mckinney, think of it as a horse race, or game of dodgeball.
Rejection is laughable? Rejection is not new to the likes of Nader/Gonzales Independent Presidential Candidate. Ralph & Matt both know that rejection has, is, and will be the very force they aspire to overcome.
It is the Nader/Gonzales platform that American citizens reject every day. Nothing new there, Ralph & Matt are brave, brave in the face of rejection..no problem! If you support The Nader/Gonzales written platform vote for them. If you reject The Nader/Gonzales written platform, continue to do what most Americans have done for the last century..'business as usual'.
BTW..how is that impeachment/700b swindle/wars going for ya? Oh thats right...Patriotic Americans brought that kind of stuff to ya...only a very few objected.
Nader/Gonzales flatly object to Bush/Cheney remaining viable in office, for that they are rejected.
Nader/Gonzales flatly object to 700b swindle, for that they are rejected.
Nader/Gonzales flatly object to the Bush/Cheney wars, for that they are rejected.
In so much as you brought up Solar, be a child of light and enjoy the power of that! Just think of it...you might make the local news.
hhahhahaha
wild;)
Nader is a globe trotting play boy [...]
___________________________________
Damn! I KNEW Ralph reminded me of someone!
Stick a pipe in his mouth, put a velvet smoking jacket on him, and surround him with a bevy of buxom bunnies, and there he is: Hugh Hefner!
Why could I never see it before?
rocyahsoul September 27th, 2008 3:24 am
"Nader is a globe trotting play boy financed by the Plaintiff Bar (literally wealthiest lawyers in America)"
Nader doesn't own a house or a car and gives most of his income away.
Lobo Gris
Stop the presses. I can hear the cushioned chairs being turned over in the negotiating room as we speak, where Bernie Frank, and his dysfunctional brethren will be dashing off to their offices and link to Common Dreams in order to get Hartmann's take on the crisis. Then after taking in his proposals will immediately rush back to the negotiating room and begin to implement Hartmann's ideas.
Also interesting how Hartmann puts it all on the Republicans. No mention that the deal is inching its way in bipartisanship. Whatever the giveaway is, it will be thanks to BOTH PARTIES.
Being the Democratic Apologist he is, you won't find any mention of the culpability of Democrats in his antiseptic verse, clean as a hounds tooth, but a distinctly odorous smell wafting in the air nevertheless.
Yawn.
coyote,
One thing is for certain, he has better ideas than you or the Democratic 'Chiefs.'
Indeed ! I wish they WOULD take Hartmann's ideas. (Or whoever's ideas they are.)
Since a good deal of Hartmann's "ideas" are stolen from other people directly off his message board, that does not surprise me. A lot of his ideas are not even his. Nevertheless, Hartmann is in bed with all things Democratic so your critique that distinguishes him from them is entirely false. He is joined at the hip with the Democrats regardless of what they produce on behalf of their corporate handlers.
The point, coyote, is there are a hell of a lot better ideas than this spoon fed 'shit' from Bush that the 'Dims' won't reject and write their own. If we all know the retard's game plan why doesn't the 'Dim' party know it?
As for your accusations of plagiarism by Hartmann...Put it where he can see it.
As for my critique "...that distinguishes him from them is entirely false." Your accusations, without a shred of evidence marks you. Me? I've been an Independent for 40 years. Yet, I would admit to being a Liberal Social Democrat before tilting by hand as a public slanderer afraid to use my real name.
Dogleg,
Perhaps you have not been following what is referred to as a financial crises. Both Dems and republicans are working toward a bipartisan bill. Do you know what that means? If you do know what that means, then your comments about the dems are false.
I agree with coyote that Hartmann spins everything he says or writes to exalt the Democrats. His current ideas are hardly relevant given that a bipartisan bill will be signed into law probably by Monday. Conversely, Nader brought this subject up about the financial meltdown back in July and provided his own prescriptions which actually represent the un enfranchised. You can read about it under another article by Chris Hedges by scrolling down. The POINT is: where was Hartmann when it mattered? Hartmann is eco/political opportunist who only appears when the news (or the shit) hits the fan. Had he delivered his latest sermon back when it might have made a difference, then your point might have been valid. As it stands, it is worthless now. What this article represents is pandering to his base after the fact for the sake of building his reputation and his bank account. I would need to check his historic analysis before commenting on his ideas. But assuming they are backed by his interpretation, then perhaps something in them might have been useful. As it stands, offering them while a deal is being hammered out, is nothing more than a day late and a dollar short. Does not matter!
Ratshit'
You checked your brains at the door, punk.
Tell me, do you live vicariously with some false sense of warrior ship on those golf courses you frequent? Or are you instead just another domesticated male who dabbles in cyber commando arts while getting your weekend warrior dose of super masculinity by engaging in name calling knowing that there is no one standing in front of you while you say it? You bring new insight to the meaning of cowardice. I am surprised of your dislike for Bush, because you both share the same dysfunctional and childish traits of a weakling.
Raptor,
Why, jeez, thank you for your complete summation of my personality. As, I am sure you are aware, the psychology of someone whose penchant for the name 'Raptor' as an aka reveals your own proclivities for the advancement of your juvenile dreams of world conquest and the spread of a seed that is dubious of survival. Since you attempt to make a physical challenge to me, and relegate me to the perceived weakness of your honor Bushhead, as a mathematical proof or psychological perception of your own superiority only gives me this thought...
I have never played golf in my life.
The rest of your drivel is just that. The screams of drivel from a wounded raptor's ego.
raptor, ever notice how ctrl, and trans show up at the same time to debunk themselves? Catch out the latest over on the Katrina thread for a good laugh!
Thanks Dog Leg, you have provided me with the best belly laugh I've had in a long time. Any more cowardly and infantile one liners you care to share with us?
What alley, bitch?
rapt-or-unwrapped
When I want "cowardly and infantile one liners" I just do a find on your handle.
Scores every time.
How Can Wall Street Bail Itself Out Without Destroying The Dollar?
The only way to avoid destroying the entire nation is to remove corporate 'citizenship' from the corporations. Otherwise these omnipotent deathless creatures will continue to feast on the American population and bribe our lawmakers. The Bushbuck has already been destroyed by the Neo-Con controlled Republicans. Alas poor retirees.
Thom Hartmann's is but one of several good ideas for how to bail us all out of this mess without rewarding the crooks. See also Dean Baker's writings over the past couple of years at least. He long ago predicted this dilemma and has written about the relationship between RENT and inflated mortgages. Also Michael Hudson on the artificial inflation of mortgages: the proposed bailout is an attempt to re-inflate the housing market.
The Paulson Plan is a top-down non-solution seeking to sort of return to the status quo. What is needed is a drastic bottom-up solution that for the most part lets people keep their homes on a "mark-to-market" mortgage value, if necessary by using a piggy-back mortgage subsidy backed by the government. Much less expensive than the Paulson Plan and far more egalitarian and supportive of the "real economy."
-30-
Though Hartmann's idea is not totally devoid of merit, it's missing a key ingredient. That ingredient is "justice" (which of course is also largely missing from any plan Washington will come up with). The way to pay for the damage that has been done is NOT by cleverly locating some new source of funds that has been more or less overlooked. Rather, it is by taking the entire financial burden of any needed adjustment out of the hides of the criminals who caused the disaster in the first place, by gaming the system & robbing it blind.
Furthermore, this money should not go to simply "bailing out" the existing financial system. Rather, the system should be re-designed so that it serves public needs. In its present form, Wall Street is a Frankenstein monster, a parasite on the rest of society, & a locus of absurdly & dangerously disproportionate wealth & power. It should be dismantled, not "rescued." Whatever useful functions it performs in terms of raising capital & making loans could be done better by a computer program. All of Wall Street could be replaced by one computer sitting on a desk (to match those needing loans with those having funds to lend, etc). The computer would operate on completely transparent publicly-posted principles. It would be vastly more honest & trustworthy than the current crew, and would have less maintenance cost. It would own fewer homes in the Hamptons, and would bribe fewer Congressmen.
None of these parasites is necessary, & they are sucking vastly too much blood. They can and should be replaced, not "bailed out."
Absolutely, Rich M. And while we're dismantling the casino that the ruling class uses to extract money from our productive economy, let's dismantle the gambling that the state governments now use to fund everyday state expenses. It is truly sad how many people, as Jeff Foxworthy points out, have playing the lottery as their retirement plan. As long as you have lotteries as the source of state income, math classes aren't going to teach about odds.
And raising intelligent children has been studied for decades. It starts at birth with engaged parents and proper child raising, and you can go into kindergartens and tell who will succeed and who won't. You can tinker with schools and teaching methods, but the raw material is formed before school starts.
They used to do pilot studies, where they taught parents how to interact with their children, but I'm guessing that James Dobson and the right wing crowd don't really approve of critical thinking. It makes it difficult to exploit the masses.
I don't think it's missing. It is edited.
Sink the hook in their mouths first, then put lye on the wound.
I think you may get 90+ percent agreement from progressives, but progressives comprise less than five percent of the population even though progressive policies would benefit the majority. Of course a certain two percent of the population can get almost anything passed, but few progressives are found in that two percent.
Now there's some real math!
Uh, Rich, taxing every transaction which the Wall Street gangs execute IS taking money "out of the hides" of the folks who caused this problem.
q
Uh, quickstepper, I understand of course that you're just trying to be an asshole. But actually, a transaction tax would only be a minor nick in future Wall St income, & would leave untouched the gangsters' ill-gotten gains. The tax would also partly be borne by individuals & institutions (making future trades) who had nothing to do with the mortgage-backed securities scam.
In English, the phrase "taking it out of their hides" isn't used to describe such minimal infliction of pain. What you're talking about would be a "wrist slap." That's not what I'm talking about.
The childishness of your language underlines the your pathetic inability to understand the article. Hartmann clearly substantiates the considerable sums to be gained from such a tax.
Besides, just what exactly have you proposed? Do you want to shut down securities trading altogether? Roosevelt proved beyond any doubt that a well regulated securities market is a boon to the economy.
So let's say that your phony outrage is indulged and all of the "Masters of the Universe" are jailed and the entirely of their holdings liquidated and applied in some meaningful way. You have a one-time gain whose benefit will diminish over time.
The tax that Hartmann proposes would allow the securities markets to recover AND provide an ongoing source of revenue to redirect some its proceeds toward programs that could benefit everyone.
You see, your nonsensical answer is one obvious sign that you're not the progressive that you pretend to be. A true progressive would recognize the value of Hartmann's suggestion immediately.
q
In my 12:39 post, I said that Hartmann's suggestion was missing the essential ingredient of justice. Prosecuting the gangsters & seizing their ill-gotten gains would not only provide the funds needed to rebuild the financial system, but would also provide the missing ingredient of __justice__.
Your "contribution" to this discussion was the observation that seizing the ill-gotten gains would yield a one-time lump sum, rather than a revenue flow. If it turned out that more funds were needed to rebuild the financial system, I'd certainly have no objection to raising those funds via a transaction tax -- once the stolen wealth has been expropriated. I have nothing against the tax. However, a tax alone does not remotely satisfy the requirement of justice.
I also wrote that the goal would not be simply a return to the status quo ante, but rather the redesign of the whole financial system so that it serves social purposes, rather than functioning mainly as a breeding nest for corrupt parasites.
Today we see the Democrats -- the party of weasels & cowards -- falling all over one another in their rush to give Paulson virtually everything he demands. Champing at the bit to help the banksters loot the Treasury, the Dems are scarcely even cognizant that there's any issue of social justice involved. // Typically, for a supporter of this dismally unprincipled party, you're comfortable with suggestions that seek merely a return to the status quo ante, & that lack the dimension of social justice. Since you're a Democrat, nothing else would be expected from you.
Once again, you attack ONLY the Democrats.
And by the way, I'm not a Democrat. I'm an independent Progressive - a REAL Progressive, not a phony poser such as yourself and the other Rove functionaries.
I appear to take the Dems' side to counter the crap that you and the other right-wing goons dump onto this site every day. When you start criticizing republicans equally then I'll leave you alone. You won't, of course, because your entire purpose for posting on this site is to trash Obama and lower his vote count.
You can whine and complain all you want about the Democrats' reaction to Paulson's proposal. Paulson is a republican using a republican-fabricated issue to further republican causes.
I find it interesting that you have nothing to say about the phony "alternative" plan presented by several suppposedly "dissident" republican memebers of Congress.
q
Hee! Hee! You're good. This site is crawling with Rove scum and Naderites. Maybe I'm presumptious but I think we're in the same boat. I'm a democratic socialist, not a Dem, but a down-to-earth realist. So obviously, I'm going to vote for Obama and I encourage all progressives and undecideds to do likewise.
No need to enumerate what we don't like about the Dems, but they're not fascists. And Obama is a huge improvement over Cheney/Rove/Bush, and McCain/Palin/Rove. It's so obvious that anybody who disagrees is either stone cold dumb, or insincere. The hyperbole about Obama is getting so shrill and ridiculous, that you wonder if Rove has lost his touch--most likely to start a nuclear war!!??, etc. Just plain bad. But, unfortunately, it's having it's effect. It's always been a problem with the left; it attracts a lot of wild dreamers, tough-talking schemers, and adrenelin junkies who just don't get it or don't even want to get it.
All of us progressives have a certain vanity about our analysis and intentions. We're (justifiably?) proud of our integrity and our ability to see what is really going on. And that makes us vulnerable to the Rovian guilt-trip: "The Dems are as bad as the Repugs, Bush enablers all the way, and you guys are supporting a war monger (supposedly Obama) you are part of the problem", etc. And then all the positive stuff about Nader to skim off progressive votes that would otherwise go to Obama.
Dems and realistic voters are reluctant to show on this site, so badly has it been subjected to a hostile takeover.
As per Gus's comment, I firmly believe that all starts with EDUCATION. If we can go by the value of the Clemente Program in New York City and elsewhere- we see that the poorest people can Dramatically turn their lives around with focused, pragmatic, meaningful EDUCATION. It is funny perhaps, but just REALIZING how really big the world is, and how small yet SIGNIFICANT you are, can open one's eyes and heart...soul and mind. Suddenly these poor people are far richer in every way, and so is our Society. Of course, about 50 years or more of Neo-CON efforts funnelled through the Repugnant GOP Neo-CONS in attacking Education, destroying a sense of Community and Humanity (for fun and PROFIT) will take some time to deal with...but are we men and women or are we ciphers here at the pleasure of all the smirking, detructive Dubyas and their Robotic minions. Education would be a catalyst, would restore a functioning Democracy, would make Environmentilism easier, would cause people to read more and engage in the ECHO CHAMBER a lot less...it goes on and on...and ON!
Absolutely correct except that education has been attacked and politisized by both sides. Look at which classes have been removed and what has replaced them in the US and you will know the problem is bi-partisan.
We need to get all politics out of the classroom.
"The cris is coming, the crisis is coming, the crisis is coming" ....
Sound fmiliar --
Let the capitalists bil themselves out --
And let's RE- capitalism --
including credit card industry --
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Sioux Rose
GUS: The closing off of the 4th estate has led to the massive ignorance that like a sleeping giant is being awakened by this boot to the collective pocket book. We need the media back in the hands of people with diverse views so that a REAL conversation--and understanding--of trends of impact to the nation gets back underway.
Mr. Hartman uses the best lessons of history, even how similar events led to similar outcomes in a variety of nations to establish what DOES work. I hope this information gets to those in positions to vote on what's taking place. There ARE better solutions then just handing $ to the same cons who have taken our nation to its knees, morally and fiscally, the past 8 years.
Sioux Rose: "We need the media back in the hands of people with diverse views so that a REAL conversation--and understanding--of trends of impact to the nation gets back underway."
Very well put.
What I keep trying to tell everyone - especially those who don't want to listen - is that decentralization of the corporate media is a prerequisite for ANY reform in the US.
q
Absolutely basic. Democracy can't work properly if citizens have to be able to research like pros in order to find out what's going on.
That's the situation now. The average voter is bombarded with such distorted, slanted misinformation that intelligent voting booth choices are impossible for most voters.
And type of ownership as well has to be controlled. Journalism it too important to democracy to have entertainment companies, etc., controlling the media. Not only do we now have incredible concentration, but also huge obvious conflicts of interest. And the public loses out.
Absolutely. Restoring Glass-Stegall would be a good start.
Another thought:
Investor and market confidence are crucial for smooth functioning. The stock market crash of 1929 happened when people became afraid of the financial system and lost confidence in the banks and markets.
So now, we have a President encouraging fear? If Bush wasn't considered the worst President in US history, he should be regarded as such now.
Innana:
Agree that corporations should not be regarded as individuals. That they are not given the right to vote only emphasizes how little the right to vote really means. Legal standing is much more important, and taking away the equality of corporate standing with individual standing in the legal system would start to whittle away corporate power. Whittling away corporate power could reverse us on the road to fascism. Good point.
Why help bail them out in any way?
The whole purpose of the bailout is to save the asses of the private bankers who own the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is neither "Federal," because it's not a government agency but a private for-profit business, nor "Reserve," because it has no money in it.
The Federal Reserve uses us citizens as collateral for producing money out of thin air and then charges us interest on it. If all the banks collapse, so will the Federal Reserve and its grip on our lives. The Federal Reserve has created this crisis. If it sinks, there will be no debtors left on our mortgages -- we'll own our homes free and clear. And that is definitely NOT what the big financial players want. Also, we'll make our own local currencies and economies -- and the rise of this kind of activity during the Depression is what alarmed the big financial players the most and spurred The New Deal.
Now the Treasury Department has sold most of WaMu, including my home loan, at a bargain-basement price to Chase. Why at bargain basement price? Did WaMu's collapse cause my mortgage's balance to decrease, my interest rate to be lowered or my monthly payments to decrease? And why to Chase? Was WaMu in debt to Chase? Shouldn't the assets like mine have gone into the receivership of those to whom WaMu was in debt? Shouldn't I have been given a chance to buy my loan at a bargain-basement price?
The system is set up to keep the vast majority always in debt to a very small minority. This is what builds electronic wealth for this minority.
In the end, however, the whole ship is going down. It doesn't matter whether the bailout happens or not. This empire is imploding, as all empires do eventually. With this implosion will come our reduced pressure on the planet, a curtailment of population growth, and an opportunity like never before for us to manifest localized economies based upon the real wealth of our natural resources, not funny money.
Two years ago Washington Mutual was offering two different types of stated income subprime mortgage loans. The borrower had a choice of a fixed rate loan, or an adjustable rate mortgage - with the option of dropping down to paying the interest only if one could not afford to pay the mortgage. In other words, they were giving an option of a temporary discount to the people who bet on their inability to pay. Those who wanted to be "responsible" had to pay a higher rate. The "other" people took the risk of not knowing what their rate would adjust to in the future. It will be interesting to see which was the safer bet.
WaMu recently notified all their credit card customers that they had the option of freezing their credit cards at the rate they originally had a contract for (but risk the negative effect on their credit reports) or keep them open to whatever change of terms the bank could come up with.
Just thought CD readers might like to know the signs that their bank might fail.
I'm sure Chase bank will be much "kinder" (ha, ha!)
licketyglick, I agree with your idea. Actually, I wrote about that yesterday.
http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2008/09/let-judge-set-bail-not-congress.html
"Did WaMu's collapse cause my mortgage's balance to decrease, my interest rate to be lowered or my monthly payments to decrease? ... Shouldn't I have been given a chance to buy my loan at a bargain-basement price?"
GREAT QUESTION !!!! If Chase gets to buy your mortgage for a fraction of what you currently owe, then why aren't YOU given the opportunity to buy it ???
WaMu spent all the money on free TV's for people who opened up checking accounts. Then they began offering $75.oo checks to anyone who opened an account with a minimum of one dollar!!!!
This is called "marketing"...I guess they thought that they could sucker all those new customers into getting a credit card with no interest on balance transfers for the first year - then the interest rate goes up to 23%.
Now all those people are paying 23% or more interest to David Rockefeller's bank.
And some of you CDers think the government doesn't know what it's doing???? HA!!!
Yeah, it looks like JP Morgan picked up the mortgages at less than 1 cent on the dollar. Actually, after they factor in the 8 billion they get from additional shares they sell having acquired these assets they actually were paid 1 cent on the dollar to get 500 billion in assets (any losses get sold to the taxpayer if the bail out goes through, or the Fed will pick them up).
JP Morgan is making out like a bandit over this "crisis". Bear Stearns was another great prize.
Shut up bigot.
The loosers that made the sale to him will surely be rewarded while their shareholders grab their ankles.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
"it looks like JP Morgan picked up the mortgages at less than 1 cent on the dollar"
You have to be kidding me. You're kidding, right ? Please tell me you're kidding. I think you're not kidding.
That is the real question. And the way that is being negotiated? Well...It isn't. Of course you might be able to walk away from it if Chase won't deal. I think if a lot of people facing this problem were to start hammering the banks it would at least show up Wall St. as beggars and Bush as buffoon.
Of course it would require media exposure...
The only thing I understand about economics is perhaps supply and demand. I do not understand hedge funds or selling short or any other devious, cynical, Machiavellian money strategies. All I know - and know for certain - is that the Filthy Lucre Party is destroying the middle class and this country because that is the only thing left that the United States "produces". Cosmically complicated financial scams is all this country is about any longer. And you can expect that greed, selfishness, stupidity and fuck you, Jack, I got mine attitude will reduce this country within a generation, or perhaps within a decade, to a nation like Turkey or Argentina . . . or maybe even Albania. This crisis offers us all a glimpse of the human race in a nutshell and the reason for its eventual and well earned disappearance from the face of the earth.
I still love that "Filthy Lucre Party"
You and I disagree on the path of America, I believe we will restore it to honor, but your main point about what we produce and destruction of the Middle Class and hence the poor which they support, not government programs, we are in complete agreement. You are right.
We need to restore jobs to America and stop these Pond Scum business types from buying government help or rewarding them for moving jobs offshore or importing cheaper labor. And remind American business...forcefully...they do have civic responsibility.