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An Emerging Progressive Consensus on Obama's Executive Power and Secrecy Abuses
In the last week alone, the Obama DOJ (a) attempted to shield Bush's illegal spying programs from judicial review by (yet again) invoking the very "state secrets" argument that Democrats spent years condemning and by inventing a brand new "sovereign immunity" claim that not even the Bush administration espoused, and (b) argued that individuals abducted outside of Afghanistan by the U.S. and then "rendered" to and imprisoned in Bagram have no rights of any kind -- not even to have a hearing to contest the accusations against them -- even if they are not Afghans and were captured far away from any "battlefield." These were merely the latest -- and among the most disturbing -- in a string of episodes in which the Obama administration has explicitly claimed to possess the very presidential powers that Bush critics spent years condemning as radical, lawless and authoritarian.
It is becoming increasingly difficult for honest Obama supporters to dismiss away or even minimize these criticisms and, especially, to malign the motives of critics. After all, the Obama DOJ's embrace of many (though by no means all) of the most radical and extremist Bush/Cheney positions -- and the contradictions between Obama's campaign claims and his actions as President -- are now so glaring and severe that the harshest denunciations of Obama's actions are coming from those who, during the Bush years, were held up by liberals and by Obama supporters as the most trustworthy and praiseworthy authorities on these matters.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) -- which, to the cheers of liberals everywhere, was one of the nation's most stalwart defenders against the Bush assault on core civil liberties -- declared last week: "In Warrantless Wiretapping Case, Obama DOJ's New Arguments Are Worse Than Bush's." On Tuesday night, Keith Olbermann began his show by announcing:
President Obama‘s Justice Department now is not just defending Bush officials from lawsuits surrounding National Security Agency domestic spying, but seeking to expand the government's authority by making it immune from any legal challenge regarding wiretapping -- ever.
Olbermann went on to add that "the Obama administration is just flat-out dead wrong about this" and then contrasted Obama's campaign statements on transparency with his conduct as President and concluded: "That was then, this is now." Law Professor Jonathan Turley -- who, as a regular on Olbermann's show during the Bush years, was one of the single most-cited and praised sources by the netroots on matters of executive authority -- said that Bush officials should wave a "Mission Accomplished" banner because they "have Barack Obama adopting the same extremist arguments and, in fact, exceeding the extremist arguments made by President Bush."
Meanwhile, Josh Marshall's TalkingPointsMemo surveyed a panel of experts last week -- including one from Center for American Progress, headed by Obama transition chief John Podesta -- to ask and answer these questions about Obama's argument in the illegal surveillance cases:
Does it represent a continuation of the Bushies' obsession with putting secrecy and executive power above basic constitutional rights? Is it a sweeping power grab by the executive branch, that sets set a broad and dangerous precedent for future cases by asserting that the government has the right to get lawsuits dismissed merely by claiming that state secrets are at stake, without giving judges any discretion whatsoever?
In a word, yes.
Sen. Russ Feingold -- probably the single most praised liberal politician of the last eight years -- declared himself "troubled" by the Obama administration's conduct on secrecy and illegal surveillance and said he would seek to enact legislation to limit Obama's powers as soon as possible. Nancy Pelosi vowed Congressional action to limit the Obama DOJ's position, proclaiming: "we can never have a repetition of what was done under the Bush administration or a continuation of that."
When asked about investigations of Bush crimes, Pelosi also said "we have a little bit of difference of opinion between the White House and the Congress" because the White House "wants to go forward" (Beltway code for allowing Bush crimes to go uninvestigated and unpunished) whereas Congressional Democrats "believe that we have to take a look at what happened[, since] there may be criminal activity." And early Obama booster Andrew Sullivan warned: "with each decision to cover for their predecessors, the Obamaites become retroactively complicit in them."
The Obama DOJ's conduct with regard to detainee rights at Bagram is provoking even harsher criticism among the favorite sources of progressives. The New York Times Editorial Board -- a leading establishment voice opposing Bush radicalism -- today condemned what it called "The Next Guantanamo" and lambasted Obama for advancing "extravagant claims of executive power and perpetuat[ing] the detention policies of the Bush administration." Charlie Savage, who won a Pulitzer Prize at The Boston Globe for exposing Bush's use of signing statements to break the law, in February described the Obama DOJ's position as "embracing a key argument of former President Bush's legal team" and as "a blow to human rights lawyers who have challenged the Bush administration's policy of indefinitely detaining 'enemy combatants' without trials."
Last night, Digby lamented that "it's clear that the Holder DOJ is going to keep at least some of the legal pillars of the Bush GWOT regime in place" and that "it's profoundly disappointing that the administration is actually seizing more executive power in the case of the states' secrets argument and perpetuating a lawless prison regime outside our borders." The American Prospect's Adam Serwer complained this morning that "what the Obama administration is essentially arguing is that it has the authority to detain terror suspects indefinitely without trial and without charges" and that Obama's position "stands in stark contrast to statements Obama made during the campaign."
International law professor Kevin Jon Heller of Opinio Juris said that "the Obama administration's stance on Bagram is deplorable" and that Obama was trying to "create a legal black hole" in Afghanistan identical to what Obama vehemently condemned at Guantanamo. The ACLU's Jonathan Hafetz warned that the Obama position was creating "the new Guantanamo" and, if they prevail, "the Obama administration will continue to be free to create a prison outside the law." Liberal law professor Darren Hutchinson said of Obama's Bagram position: "This is the same argument that the Bush administration made" and, because of it, "Bagram could become the functional equivalent of Guantanamo Bay." And on Thursday, former DOJ official Bruce Fein -- one of the most eloquent (and widely-cited-by-liberals) authorities on the Bush assault on the Constitution -- extensively detailed what he called "an emerging pattern of mightily expansive claims of executive authority by the new administration" as part and parcel of "President Barack Obama's claim to czarlike powers in a perpetual global war against international terrorism."
Perhaps most significantly, Digby last night documented that Marty Lederman -- a hero to the netroots when he used his blog and authority as a former OLC official to mercilessly critique the Bush approach to executive power and is now Obama's number 3 OLC official -- emphatically condemned (last year) the Bush policy of denying rights to Bagram detainees: exactly the policy which the Obama DOJ is now defending. Digby wrote (emphasis added):
I continue to wonder where Marty Lederman is in all this since he went to the Justice department. There is nobody who was more critical of these same policies during the Bush years and for whom I have more respect. But I wonder if he is using his thorough analyses of the Bush policies to end them?
In the wake of the Boumadiene decision [Lederman] wrote:
As I noted below, the two most important questions the Court did not answer are:
(i) Would habeas rights extend to alien detainees held in foreign locations other than GTMO (such as Bagram)?
and
(ii) What is the substantive standard for who may be indefinitely detained?
The Court was not, however, completely silent on these questions; it provided hints about how they might be resolved. . . .
So, as for the first question: Would habeas rights extend to alien detainees held in foreign locations other than GTMO? That is to say, can the military avoid the impact of Boumediene simply by detaining or transferring all alleged alien enemy combatants to a different facility, such as at Bagram?
Short answer: No. . . .
Most importantly, the Court strongly implies that if, as in this case, the government chooses a foreign detention facility for the very purpose of avoiding judicial review (or perhaps even if the military retains a prisoner at a battlefield locale for the same reason), the Court will not look kindly upon such efforts. As I noted below, I believe the single most important sentence in the opinion might be this one: "The test for determining the scope of [the Suspension Clause] must not be subject to manipulation by those whose power it is designed to restrain." The political branches will not be permitted "to govern without legal constraint" or to "have the power to switch the Constitution on or off at will" . . . .
During the Bush years Lederman's position couldn't have been clearer that detainees such as those who applied for habeas corpus at Bagram clearly were, should be subject to the writ. Read his posts in this fascinating exchange if you doubt me. He even suggested that the Bagram prisoners, who he admits have been held in the absolute worst of conditions, should be sent to Guantanamo where at least they'd have some rights. It's very difficult to believe that he would endorse this appeal.
Though Lederman acknowledged practical difficulties that might prevent full habeas hearings for Bagram detainees, he clearly stated that the crux of the Boumediene ruling applies to Bagram as it applies to Guantanamo -- the exact opposite of the claim the Obama DOJ is now pressing.
Even for the hardest-core Obama loyalists, it's rather difficult to attribute these increasingly harsh condemnations of Obama's civil liberties, secrecy and executive power abuses to bad motives or ignorance when they're coming from the likes of Russ Feingold, TalkingPointsMemo, the Center for American Progress, Nancy Pelosi, EFF, the ACLU, The New York Times Editorial Board, Keith Olbermann, Jonathan Turley, The American Prospect, Bruce Fein, Digby, along with some of the most enthusiastic Obama supporters and a bevvy of liberal law professors and international law experts -- those who were most venerated by progressives during the Bush era on questions of the Constitution and executive power.
* * * * *
That the Obama DOJ has repeatedly embraced the very legal theories responsible for much of the intense progressive rage towards the Bush/Cheney regime is now beyond dispute. The question of motive -- of why Obama is doing this -- is far less clear. Motives in general are notoriously difficult to discern. It's often hard to know one's own motives, let alone those of others, and one can only speculate about the reasons for Obama's actions.
There is, as Pelosi said this week, clearly a strong aversion -- one might say "desperation" -- on the part of the Obama White House to avoid anything that could increase the pressure to commence investigations and prosecutions of Bush crimes. As Slate's Dahlia Lithwick succinctly put it: "by keeping the worst of the Bush administration's secrets hidden, the Obama Justice Department can defer awkward questions about prosecuting the wrongdoers."
Preserving the President's general ability to block lawsuits alleging illegal conduct on the part of the President obviously enables Obama to invoke that power whenever there are allegations that he is breaking the law. The power to abduct people and put them in cages indefinitely without having to answer to anyone about what you're doing -- the power Obama is claiming he possesses in the Bagram case -- is obviously a potent authority that a typical President fighting a "war" would instinctively want to wield. And Howard Fineman was likely correct when he told Olbermann on Tuesday night that Obama is petrified of alienating the permanent intelligence and military establishments in Washington which might be alarmed by any attempt to abandon these vast powers, particularly where reversing course could raise the likelihood of prosecutions.
Ultimately, though, motives don't matter. Simply put, there is no excuse, justification or mitigation for advocating blatantly unconstitutional and tyrannical powers or claiming that secrecy shields the President from the rule of law. Nor is the faith-based belief that Obama is a Good Person who therefore deserves trust even remotely rational or relevant. As Professor Turley put it on Countdown: "It doesn‘t matter if you are a good person doing bad things. You are doing bad things." These secrecy and detention powers are among the most dangerous and tyrannical powers a President can seize, and Obama's attempt to cling to them is deplorable no matter his "motives."
It's certainly true that Democrats and liberals, in general, overwhelmingly approve of the job Obama is doing. That makes perfect sense. It is inconceivable that many progressives would say otherwise three months into the tenure of a new Democratic President. The country is still celebrating the fact that George Bush and Dick Cheney are no longer in power. And there are many important areas in which, from a progressive perspective, Obama's preliminary actions are encouraging: budget policy, changes in tone and even mindset in some spheres of America's foreign policy, reversals of Bush's most controversial domestic policies, some excellent presidential appointments. By themselves, Obama's future judicial nominees can justify efforts to elect him. To condemn Obama's executive power and secrecy abuses is not to posit that Obama is the general equivalent of Bush or that his victory over McCain/Palin was irrelevant.
It's also possible Obama may (or may not) take actions in the future -- releasing the last OLC torture memos, granting full due process rights to Guantanamo detainees, offering habeas hearings to abducted-and-rendered Bagram prisoners -- that could substantially improve his record in the areas of accountability, transparency and adherence to Constitutional guarantees. If he does those things, credit will be warranted -- but only if and when he does them. And thus far, he has not. In most instances, he has done the opposite.
Whatever else one might say, the rule of law, the Constitution, and core civil liberties are the centerpiece of a healthy and well-functioning government, and nothing justifies an assault on those safeguards. That was the argument most progressives made throughout the Bush presidency, and the more Obama continues on the Bush/Cheney path in this area, the more solid the progressive consensus against his actions becomes.
UPDATE: On Friday, I suggested to Greg Sargent on Twitter that the White House should be forced to say whether Obama supports passage of the State Secrets Act -- legislation which would significantly limit Obama's power to invoke "secrecy" as a means of blocking judicial review of presidential actions and which (during the Bush years) was supported by leading Senate Democrats, including Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton, as a response to Bush's use of the same doctrine. The Act was re-introduced in February of this year by Russ Feingold, Arlen Specter, John Conyers and others as a response to Obama's abusive invocation of the privilege in the rendition/Jeppesen case.
Sargent reports today that he posed the question and the White House simply refuses to say whether Obama supports or opposes the legislation. As Sargent notes, the Act "represented the consensus view of the Democratic Party a year ago" and this question thus "sets up an unappetizing political prospect: The President would be opposing the corrective that is favored by prominent Senate Dems and once enjoyed the support of his Vice President and Secretary of State."




72 Comments so far
Show AllHe is not going to give away any of the power that Bush appropriated for the executive.
Obama's actions and Senate voting record during 2008 should have been adequate warning of what to expect from Obama once he moved into the White House. Obama's presidential actions have been consistent with his pre-1/20/09 actions.
The primary examples are his Senate vote approving continued and expanded wiretapping, and his zealous support of the trillion dollar unconditional financial industry bailout.
When will those millions of people who showed up in DC on that cold January day for the inauguration be returning to DC to protest Obama selling them down the river?
"When will those millions of people who showed up in DC on that cold January day for the inauguration be returning to DC to protest Obama selling them down the river?"
For most of them, NEVER. That's the unfortunate thing. They'll protest Bush and Republicans until the cows come home but NEVER the Dems. You could ask where they were when Clinton was bombing aspirin factories, or during Kosovo. They were home with their heads in the sand, the same thing they're doing now.
'Don't get fooled again' - Pete Townsend
I would offer that Townsend's words were actually,"we wont get fooled again". But, of course, we will.
"You could ask where they were when Clinton was bombing aspirin factories."
The bombing of the Sundanese factory at al-Shifa, in particular, drew wide condemnation from these quarters, despite the fact that the CIA found and certified VX nerve agent precursor in the ground outside the factory, despite the fact that the factory was owned by Osama bin Laden's Military Industrial Corporation, and despite the fact that the manager of the factory lived in bin Laden's villa in Khartoum. The book "Age of Sacred Terror" quantifies the al-Shifa issue thusly: "The dismissal of the al-Shifa attack as a scandalous blunder had serious consequences, including the failure of the public to comprehend the nature of the al Qaeda threat."
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/09/paul_krugman_pr.html
You read my mind. This is exactly what I was about to post when I saw this article. In fact, his senate voting record was the primary reason I could not bring myself to vote for him for president. I'm glad I didn't. He has proven to me that, despite his explanations of those votes at the time, he will continue to support those horrible policies.
I just wish the rest of the country would have done more research and not apologize for Obama in the same way that Bush supporters continuously apologized for his actions. Looks like more of the same. Too bad more people don't really research the candidates and that those of us who do are in such a minority.
Remember Debbie, we may be in the minority of human choice but we are in the majority of the right choice. So we will be the ones to carry forward the torch of freedom. The seeds of our actions will be the guard and light for the future while the majority find themselves lost in the past and looking to us to lead them forward. So it has always been, so it will always be.
Perhaps for some this is not the glory they imagined for themselves when they educated and empowered themselves....but perhaps we need to adjust our imagining of what real glory is.
I think in the bigger scheme of things under nature and natures God, Obama can only sell himself down the river and will ultimately be the one to stand judged for any crimes against nature and nature's God that he commits.
This fact is one that is conveniently and tragically veiled for those who choose to believe otherwise.
It will take an ocean of bleach to remove the foul stench of Bush-Cheney from the Whitehouse.
Yes yes, the "sulfur stench of El Diablo". We need to leave the WH vacant for a year to air out, plus prove to the USans that we don't need a throne-warmer. The throne-warmer need us.
What about the question of rights for the agents of imperial blowback (a.k.a. the "terrorists")? Do they have rights to due process? Where is the empire's right to steal their resources? Oh, might makes right, sure sure. Except when we forget to pay our taxes. Ooops.
...seeking to expand the government's authority by making it immune from any legal challenge regarding wiretapping -- ever.
For as long as this 'government' stands.
Amen.
Olbermann went on to add that "the Obama administration is just flat-out dead wrong about this" and then contrasted Obama's campaign statements on transparency with his conduct as President and concluded: "That was then, this is now."
Obama promised change.
You got it: he changed his mind.
"YES WE CON!"
I am deeply sorry to have to say that during the presidential campaign the threads on this site relentlessly warned everybody about Obama's being a right winger no less than Bush, from whom little is to be expected, but that few people listened.
Although I still grant that Obama is an incomparably more intelligent and more gifted individual than his predecessor. But that is not the point right now. The issue is the policy decisions of the Obama administration, the right-wing appointments (for instance, the countless creeps appointed who are members of The Council on Foreign Relations), the lies, the deception of millions of voters who genuinely wanted and craved change, the unwillingness to annul the Patriot Act and clearly and unequivocally to end the war in Iraq, and an endless stream of other issues, such as the ones reported in this article.
"Obama is an incomparably more intelligent and more gifted individual than his predecessor." Are you sure about this? Does it take intelligence to do what Obama is accused of doing in the above article? I would not call it intelligence at all I would call it a clear and present danger hidden behind a shroud of dark skin, eloquent speaking and political affiliation.
"Nancy Pelosi vowed Congressional action to limit the Obama DOJ's position, proclaiming: 'we can never have a repetition of what was done under the Bush administration or a continuation of that.'"
That's rich.
But don't count on her actually doing anything. Any investigation of Bush should also convict Pelosi, Reid and a number of other democrats as well. They had FULL knowledge of what Bush was doing, making them just as complicit as Bush.
'Don't get fooled again' - Pete Townsend
Yes, of course. That's why Pelosi's statement is so "rich". Richly hypocritical.
Right, Impeachment is off the table Pelosi cares about the limits of executive power.
Yeah, that's rich all right
I personally love that she is now pushing a book titled "Know Your Power" for women. Is she f'in kidding????
"He is not going to give away any of the power that Bush appropriated for the executive."
Right. And he seems to using it for good. Today he lifted restrictions on travel to Cuba. He could always constrain the Executive's power prior to his leaving office.
"Today he lifted restrictions on travel to Cuba."
Whooptiefukkindoo. Will he let you smoke an Habana next?
"He could always constrain the Executive's power prior to his leaving office."
I thought that is what the Constitution is for.
Even if O tried to limit future abuses, his strengthening of the criminal precedents set by his predecessors would make such an effort futile as well as hypocritical.
ABENDLAND sees clearly - O's just another huckster with a glibber spiel.
"Today he lifted restrictions on travel to Cuba"
Either pay attention or tell the truth. Obama DID NOT blanket lift travel restrictions to Cuba, as your statement implies. He lifted them for Cuban Americans who have family in Cuba.
'Don't get fooled again' - Pete Townsend
The embargo is still in place, pal. This was just Pr because Raum is getting wind of how much the polls are tanking. It won't work. Nothing real comes through means Obama is through. Obama is NOT worthy of trust. Get it?
I agree that Obama is not worthy of trust as is also the case with most of the people with power in our government. that is why it is crucial that we fight for a change in election laws. If we had an instant run off law for every office in the country from Governor to President, a third or fourth party not controlled by the elite would have a chance to win those offices. If we had that system and I could have listed my first and second choices, Obama wouldn't have gotten my vote. We also need total public financing of these offices even if it means an amendment to the Constittion. We need to start identifying new candidates for 2010 and 2012 now.
Yes, there is an emerging consensus among progressives that on issues like access to the courts by GWOT detainees, state secrets privilege, and the civil liability of federal government officials for past acts of unconstitutional misconduct, the Obama administration's legal positions have been disappointing and unprincipled. But I don't see (or read in Glenn's latest offering) any consensus emerging as to remedy.
I also question the Lithwick's contention that the motive appears to be that by trying to keep "the worst of the Bush administration's secrets hidden, the Obama Justice Department can defer awkward decisions about prosecuting the wrongdoers." It seems to me, the exact opposite dynamic is already at work.
Bill from Saginaw
Bill the manner in which "state secrets" keep Bush's crimes hidden is that "state secrets" is being invoked in a number of civil suits trying to obtain information in civil libility suits against Bush et. al..
Barack H(ypocrite) Obama.
President "Yes We Can, But I Won't". Getting to be pretty disgusting, isn't he?
At this point, it's safe to call for IMPEACHING Congress and the White House !
Was it three years ago? The Democrats said they couldn’t do anything about government lawbreaking because they were in the minority(not even tell the people about illegal torture and spying programs that they themselves had been briefed on in secret, makes you wonder what is the point of the briefings huh?)
Two years ago, the Dems are in the majority, but again, darn! Can’t do anything, there are two many Republicans and Bush is still there.
Now it’s today and oopps, sorry, no can do, the Democrats won’t even hold hearing until, get this, until the Republicans participate, and they don’t want to! HaHaHa!
I must say this is brilliantly farcical, even for American politics. Your political party can break the law and stymie any reckoning into your crimes simply by not participating yourself, in the inquiry! And the only other party represented in congress, is fine with that! It is almost as if the Democrats and Republicans are partners in crime….;)
Now do you see why you shouldn’t have voted for the “corporate party”?
PS it is only a few months and Obama has already repaid his campaign contributors at the major financial houses a thousand fold, with your money of course. If he keeps this up he may get to stay on for a second term.
Both elite parties serve the same bullkaka on a platter to the USan population. The problem is not that they serve it but that they eat it. This is probably because USans don't want the responsibility of self-rule.
Yep. Obama needs a new book, "King Con" or the "The insanity of believing in my mendacity".
Sad. Very Sad.
Even I hoped for better than this. And I do appreciate Greenwald's and the other commentators' honesty in sticking to their guns (except for the one who's back in the gov't., of course.)
Now for the next question: what are we going to do about it? Is it now clear enough that a progressive takeover of the Democratic Party is futile? How many betrayals does it take?
We are coming into very turbulent times in this country. We thought the Bush years were, but they were pretty calm by comparison. There's nothing like a Depression and a new Hoover to really stir the pot. We need to think hard about strategies, because the last one got us damn-all.
Oregoncharles
I think the first step is to agree that no matter what we will not give up on what we know is right. NO matter that our president, our congress, and most of the people do give up, we have to give a sacred pledge not to. Not to give up hope nor sincerity nor belief. That is where all right and continued action takes root. To do this we have to understand that our belief and trust in what we know must dwarf what they do not and the wrong actions that abound must been viewed as worthless to the right actions that are rare. We must let the truth we know be our guide and comfort rather than what we see most people trusting and being guided by. If the few who see the right way cannot do this, we will all be lost.
So step one, don't get lost and distracted by the lost and distracted majority, that in and of it's self is a powerful plan.
Mr. Obama has shown himself to have even a better criminal mind than Mr. Bush and Chenney.
You got fooled again.
That evil President Obama again.......
I do not see serious folk here calling him evil, but calling him out with accuracy.
"I do not see serious folk here calling him evil, but calling him out with accuracy."
Rick,
I agree that there are a few "serious folks' here who present their opinions with clarity transmitted through structured thought. Those commentators, whether I agree or disagree, I hold in high regard. Others, on the other hand, are very predictable as to their responses regarding articles that present the current administration in a negative frame.(Or any frame for that matter) That was my point when I simply posted my remark as [evil Obama again].....etc.
This administration deserves many, if not most, of the criticisms presented here at CD. But....If it were not Barach Obama many of these justifiable criticisms would today be leveled at someone else. Even a Ralph Nader perhaps. The problems we face are of a fundamental and structural nature.... I believe that this period in our collective history is (or could be) one of transition. That is where my hope resides.
Great to hear from you again Rick.
I wonder when all those Obama voters will apologize to those of us who chose third party candidates like Nader...
Forget the apologies. You've got street cred with them now. Don't recriminate, get their vote for our third party even if we still don't have a name for it. Get them to swear off the monster party (repub-demo corporation) voting forever.
Unfortunately that's pretty tough to do though. So many still have that fear of the worse evil thing going. I wish we could enact approval voting, get rid of primaries altogether. With approval voting, people wouldn't have to worry that their worst choice would get in to power. http://www.approvalvoting.org/
It would also be far less expensive for the people. I wonder how many people are aware that primaries and caucuses for the republicans and democrats are paid for by the people, but for third parties they all have to pay for their own. I was pretty annoyed this year when I learned that the Democrats decided to not even COUNT the primary in my state (WA) because they preferred to have a caucus. But then WA state requires a primary by law. So we paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for a useless primary. Absolutely ridiculous.
100 plus days in and Obama is showing his true colors. The man does not change the system, the system changes the man. Hail to the chief of the status quo.
The question of motive -- of why Obama is doing this -- is far less clear.
-----------------------
It's nice to see that Greenwald is finally asking the question WHY. Why is Obama doing this?
I don't have any doubt that this lawlessness is tied to our enormous Black Budget which supports programs that'd if known would scare the holy sh*t out of everyone.
Secrecy is the disease that's going to seal our fate.
In order to maintain secrecy a President must have the ability to shut down any inquiry that could expose what cannot be known.
I'm not an Obama supporter. And some days I can be a cynic. But I do not believe that candidate Obama KNEW he would be using State's Secrets claims to shut down lawsuits or stamping out Habeas by substituting Bagram for Gitmo. I don't think I'm wrong on this.
I believe it was probably "explained" to him shortly after taking office that this is what he'll be doing.
Until we actually know who is running our country and what their agenda is we're in deep trouble.
Damn secrets are going to destroy this country.
"Until we actually know who is running our country and what their agenda is we're in deep trouble"
The agenda is One World government, not a democratic one. Those behind it are the international banksters and global corporations, and those that pretend to be green but are red. McCarthy was right. But they have a knack for being able to discredit the truth, and associate it with bad people like anti-semites, neo-nazi's, McCarthyites, etc. and have got everyone to believe that a conspiracy is not possible, and those who consider them are nuts.
Of course, in these days of a free and respected MSM that is owned and operated by those with IQ's 3-5 SD's above average, who own many other institutions and global corporations, are rich and powerful, with enormous influence over government leaders and regulators, not to mention law enforcement, how can you even consider a conspiracy. It's insane, I mean, how could they possibly get away with a conspiracy, even if they hold meetings in secret like the Bilderbergers. CNN and the NY Times would be all over it right? LOL.
. But I do not believe that candidate Obama KNEW he would be using State's Secrets claims to shut down lawsuits or stamping out Habeas by substituting Bagram for Gitmo."
Very perceptive.....Things tend to change somewhat when a President- elect receives the first in a series of "national security" briefings...(The dark (undemocratic side of government)It is one thing to have high ideals on the campaign trail and another to actually govern......That darn old skillful use of blunt tools again....
Yeah, this sucks. Period.
But I sure feel freer, like a weight is off my heart with Cheney/Bush/McCain gone.
Now that that Juggernaut is temporarily sidelined though, Now is the time to Demonstrate, go Ghandi, organize & Protest. Obama unlike Cheney may respond to pressure. If we don't pressure him to change or begin organizing NOW for a 3rd party alernative if you believe in that, you/I forsake our right to complain.
Obama is doing much wrong, much good. Cuba today, arms reduction, talks w/ Iran & Russia-these count. But so do AfPak and illegal, immoral executive powers.
What would Ghandi do?
What can we do?
2012 is next week. Joseph.
It's G-a-n-d-h-i, not G-h-a-n-d-i.
Thank You. We are waiting for an inevitable violent Revolution. I wish it was now. Sadly it is decades away while things deteriorate. Suffering intensifies.
The only possible 'quicker' way would be if masses, waves of people started BLOCKING FREEWAYS, BLOCKING RUNWAYS, occupying Federal Buildings, the Pentagon.
I made these suggestions in a post the other day that got censored/deleted-this is an experiment....it is 9:54.
5,000 people do a sit in on the runways of JFK & LAX
While 5,000 more do a sit in in the tunnels leading to New York.
And immediate positive responses, concessions, changes in AfPak would transpire.....
I advocate RPP, Radical Peaceful Protest.
To Gandhi.
Well, time to get deleted. Peace.
Greenwald asserts in his piece that Obama and company have taken it FURTHER than Cheney/Bush. Glad you feel better about that Joe.
elohim-why a personal rejoider to a political post?
I suggest Civil Disobedience to move things in a progressive direction. Seems pretty positive to me, a Good Thing, and clearly an indication I see things need to change radically.
Would "I respect your opinion and you mine," maybe work? Again, my post being about Civil Disobedience & how to effect change?
And I do feel better w/o McCain in the White House. Given that I'm quick to acknowledge BO's wrongs, AfPak et al, why does that warrant sniping shots from you?
These threads have been more personal than political, let's change that, respectfully, Joseph.
APeacefulTuesdayToYouelohim