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TechnoratiIt was like an action movie. A young man held at night in a hotel, threatened with prison. He is to be shipped off to war in the morning. His friends desperately trying to find him. The "down" button on the elevator had been disabled. He considered jumping from the window. When his friends arrive, they encounter military personnel patrolling the grounds. One sneaks in, gets his friend out, and they drive off into the night. This was real life for 17-year-old Eric Martinez, a student at Aldine High School in a poor neighborhood of Houston. He responded to an Army recruitment pitch, called the delayed enlistment program.
But then, as 17-year-olds are wont to do, Eric changed his mind. When the recruiter came to his house and threatened his mother, she went to the recruiting station to meet with the officer in charge: "She talked to Sgt. Marquette and told him that I didn't want to go, and that's it. And Marquette said that I had to go, and if I didn't, that I'd have a warrant for my arrest, and I wouldn't be able to get no government loans or nothing like that. So, my mom doesn't really know anything about it, so she believed it, and she told me. And I believed it, too, because I didn't know much about it either." It was then that they took Eric to the hotel.
Martinez's friend, Irving Gonzalez, knew he was next. He had signed up for the same program. As the oldest of four children of a single mother, Irving's impulse was to help his family survive, get the signing bonus and gain access to a college education. He then wanted to get out of the program, to pursue college directly. He called the recruiter, Sgt. Glenn Marquette. Desperate, he had the call recorded.
Sgt. Marquette: "This is what will happen. You want to go to school? You will not get no loans, because all college loans are federal and government loans. So you'll be black-marked from that. As soon as you get pulled over for a speeding ticket or anything with the law, they're gonna see that you're a deserter. Then they're going to apprehend you, take you to jail ... you will do your time, as you deserve. All that lovey-dovey 'I want to go to college' and all this? Guess what. You just threw it out the window, because you just screwed your life."
Irving and two others were the ones who sneaked Eric out of the hotel.
After the story broke, Marquette was suspended, and the military says it is conducting an investigation, but neither Martinez nor Gonzalez has been contacted. Recent history does not bode well. In 2005, Sgt. Thomas Kelt, who like Marquette worked at the Greenspoint Recruiting Station in Houston, left a phone message for potential recruit Chris Monarch, saying if he didn't show up at the recruiting station that afternoon: "We'll have a warrant, OK? So give me a call back." The story went national. The military conducted a daylong "stand down" on recruitment to retrain their recruiters. They said they removed Kelt. In fact, he was promoted to head up a nearby recruiting center.
I asked Douglas Smith, spokesman for the U.S. Army Recruiting Command in Kentucky, about why Kelt wasn't punished. Smith replied that Kelt had received a "negative administrative action ... just because someone has done something wrong doesn't mean that they get the death penalty."
But there's a difference between the death penalty and a promotion. When I asked Smith what the penalty was, he replied, "I'm not allowed to tell you."
Smith and the rest of the military may dodge reporters' questions, but they can be subpoenaed before Congress to testify under oath.
Texas Congressman Ted Poe, a Republican, said: "Our country cannot deceive its citizens. Since the Army hasn't taken the initiative, now Congress may have to get involved." Another Texas congressman, Democrat Gene Greene, whose kids went to Aldine High and whose wife taught there for years, agrees. With no end in sight in Afghanistan and Iraq, recruiters must be prevented from using desperate and aggressive measures to lure our nation's young people -- the poorest and most vulnerable -- into the line of fire.
Amy Goodman is the host of "Democracy Now!," a daily international TV/radio news hour airing on more than 700 stations in North America.
© 2008 Amy Goodman
48 Comments so far
Show AllDear Nellemason - I agree with your focus. Several people here (including moi) have talked about the poverty factor. It was highlighted in the Amy Goodman broadcast.
Folks, I'm really surprised that no one has picked up on the poverty issue in this. These kids are NOT "morons"; these kids are POOR! There's the promise of a signing bonus and college tuition. It's kind of like prostitution . . . Do you really think any of these kids would be signing up if a nice middle-class lifestyle was happening and daddy was picking up the college tab?
This story isn't about emkay, its about very young men being duped by the military and who only wanted a way to get a highter education. And unfortunately, these young men never had the adult advice growing up as to how to avoid the military with all of its promises. These youngsters are not morons, just young kids who are ignorant of the ways of the world that could get them killed. How many lower income folks want a college education, but find the doors closed at every turn once they graduate from highschool? And how many have to find ways to support not only themselves but their families who are living on the edge as well? What's needed are some of these so called vets to reach out and support these usually fatherless kids and clue them in instead of waving the flag and bragging about their tour of duty.
emkay........I don't believe a 17 year old can enter into a contract without a signature from mom or pop. Also a 17
year old gets lots of nutty ideas and quickly changes his
or her mind. Besides all that, you aren't really in the
military until you raise your right hand and take that oath
to uphold the Constitution. These recruiters are clearly
taking advantage of these young kids by any means that will
enable them to get their quotas and keep their JOBS. Kids
trust these assholes to tell them the truth (and yes I once
served as a recruitment NCO) and they lie like rugs. The
Army runs these ads on TV and makes the Army seem like a
glourious adventure. They promise education in all these Hi-Tech fields. Then they are given a few weeks of indoctrination which amounts to; "America good-rest of the world bad. You protect freedom, mom, home and apple pie."
Then they are given a rifle and shipped to Iraq to protect
Exxon/Mobil oil that happens to be under Iraqi sand.
Don't try to blame these kids for making bad decisions,
they are young and dumb. Blame the assholes responsible,
from Bush on down.
Mr More, thank you. I can probably get one of the local vet groups to help me get signed up for the VA system, if not the upgrade. I don't care about that anyway, except for the loss of benefits, it's never affected me, and in a way, it's a badge of honor--hahaha! But I am slowly overcoming my lifelong internal resistance to taking on The Beast again.
But the rulers have never been the ones to fight, have they?
I didn't see one of those boys there, did you?
My best friend got a DD from the Air Force, he is getting VA benefits. Don't be crazy for a second time. Go and get what we earned. It belongs to you.
I believe that every other person here would say the same.
Good Luck
Re: skippyagogo41: "Minors can't sign contracts that are enforcable in law, that I know of anyhow." [in Canada].
A very small point of correction, but they can and do and they are enforceable particularly if the contract involves "necessaries" such as food and lodging. This is an issue I deal with on a too frequent basis. Minors become involved in contractual arrangements too often without understanding the implications, such as [in the States at least] military enlistment.
Mr. Chips @ 12:35 This is more or less breaking news this morning as I write. I caught Obama's response on the radio--he said 'Russia should respect the sovereignty of Georgia's Borders'. Just like we did to Iraq Barak? Or too many other nations and states all over the planet. Oh, the hypocrisy of these politicians, it burns.
To other posters above, thank you for you words of advice and support. I meant to respond last night to Skippy's last post at the time, and now a few others by simply noting nothing ever changes, the recruiters have always been scum. And how vets are treated after the war (or when they come home) seems to carry on the same, they pissed on the VN vets (still!), and their pissing on the Iraq vets too.
Thomas More wrote 'Should Bush get VA benefits and not you. I don't think so, He was a coward, you were not.' (Thank you) Yes, that minor detail does bother me a bit. And not only him, but the whole chickenshit...er, 'hawk' admin. But the rulers have never been the ones to fight, have they?
THERE IS NO LAW. THERE IS NO CONTRACT. The Government and the U.S. military have consistently ignored law and have consistently broken the contract. Unfortunately, too many of the recruits are clueless about the trap that has been set for them and reflect the cultivated ignorance of the public in general.
According to this article, I get the impression that the so-called "law" in these cases is not so clear. According to above post, "You sign, you swear, you GO!". Hell, No! This is one area in which the "peace movement" could focus a lot more energy--resist, don't enlist! There are definitely moral choices to be made, and consequences to be weighed in this very complex miasma. This government, this military, have not only gone to war against Iraq and Afghanistan, but are also at war against the U.S. population. A government that can torture children cares not one whit about sending it's own children into the meatgrinder. No, the asses of Eric Martinez and his friends do not belong to the military carrying out the slaughter of a Fascist State. Unfortunately, Martinez and the rest will have to make a choice about which suffering they will endure. I wish them well, these are choices we will all have to make.
P.S. Russia has just invaded Georgia, (where the U.S. already has special forces in place), and is targeting the civilian population.
,"Some of you are here under so-called 'Buddy Contracts.' Those are cancelled as of now."
Oh! Well … since the contract under which I signed is no longer in place, I'll be leaving now.
NOPE!!!
You mean that DI wouldn't let you go home? The mean ole thing!
Any Marine recruits that got there and didn't want to stay were flown home first class or if close enough, delivered back home in a limosine.
At least thats what the recruiter promised!!
NOT! (said with a smile)
Sad is isn't.. A military that as to resort to these type of tactics to get bodies, doesn't have alot honor..Yet honor is supposed to the foundation of the military.
It is the old lie: "Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori."
(Sweetness and Decorated is For fatherland to die).
OK … I'm sympathetic with the plight of the young men.
Here's the deal: When you tell the military you're going, YOU ARE. I understand the reality of that upcoming deadline, when things change from conceptual to real. You signed up and there was this misty and distant time when you would have to do something. Then … it's tomorrow.
Been there, done that.
The military ain't yer mom. There's no, "Awwww, well, I don't feel like it now, ok? So I'm not gonna."
Send this to your young friends who are talking to the military:
A military recruiter will tell you pretty much whatever he or she thinks you want to hear to get you to sign and swear. If your recruiter LIES to you, and he or she may very well do just that, as far as the military is concerned, it doesn't void the contract. There's no, "Well, the only reason I signed and swore is because s/he said (blah blah blah) and … welll, that's bullshit, so I'm not going."
Nope!!!
The contracts you sign can be voided at any time by simple declaration. When I went into the service we arrived at boot camp one lovely chilly evening and after we had rumbled off the bus and taking our (numbered) seats, one of the first things out of the D.I.'s mouth was,"Some of you are here under so-called 'Buddy Contracts.' Those are cancelled as of now."
Oh! Well … since the contract under which I signed is no longer in place, I'll be leaving now.
NOPE!!!
The military will act as though these tactics are somehow unusual, exceptional, or unacceptable. Well, maybe on a technical level. In the real world, where you and I live and where you are going to be transported across the globe to have people you never saw try to blow you up with hidden bombs, this is EXACTLY how it's done.
Remember, you are talking to a soldier on a mission. S/He has a mission, a quota. In order to get promotions, bonuses, keep a veerrrrrry sweeeet duty assignment, s/he must meet quotas. There are others standing in LINE to be able to spend their days in dress uniform in an air conditioned office talking to kids who are looking for whatever the rest of their lives might be going to be about.
YOU are the PRODUCT they MUST produce to KEEP THEIR JOB.
If you try to back out you will be threatened with everything from arrest to amputation. There is no more commitment to the truth here than there is in the initial recruitment.
Remember, unless you enlist in the Coast Guard, you are signing up for an organization whose SOLE MISSION is to kill people and blow up shit or help others kill people and blow up shit. You will be more or less directly involved in the carrying out of the mission.
You should consider whether what the person in the neat uniform with the shiny shoes sitting across the desk is promising you is worth being involved in that, especially considering that NONE of what s/he is saying is necessarily going to happen.
If you sign up, your ass is theirs. Remember that. You don't get "do-overs." You sign, you swear, you GO.
They lied? Too bad.
You don't like it? Too bad.
You sign, you swear, you GO!
Get used to it.
"skippyagogo41 August 8th, 2008 12:54 am and jclientelle August 8th, 2008 9:37 am
"emkay
Don't go to the gov't with cap in hand, go with a lawsuit. It's the American way after all. (grin) A child soldier ought not to have been sent to vietnam. I'd say you rightly deserve va bennies especially when arsehats like bush got away with deserting from his post."
Remember that while vets signed up out of misguided "patriotism" or were drafted, some people were getting into Yale and Harvard with C averages and have been thanked by living the good life and becoming president. Our political and corporate leadership ranks are littered with such.
emkay
I totally agree with these two guys. I would't agree that those that dodged the draft should get benefits. But you didn't, you went. Forget the DD. So what. There wasn't one of us that at various times didn't feel like bugging out. We didn't and neither did you.
Should Bush get VA benefits and not you. I don't think so, He was a coward, you were not.
Don't be silly, get what we all earned brother. Don't let your health suffer, it just means Bush and his buddies win. Please go after your benefits. They are yours.
preznit_bouche: I really want to like Amy for just the reasons you bring up, but her reformist politics will lead people (like you), who somehow begin to see the problem, down the primrose path to failure. Capitalism, especially when considered globally, can NEVER be reformed into an humanitarian system. Anyone who proposes that it can is a liar or a fool, and must be exposed - even and especially someone with a high profile like Ms. Goodman.
Michael Savage, David Duke and even Adolf Hitler have at various times exposed corruption, but I don't think you would be offended if I slammed them. But, at least those creeps can be easily seen as the enemy! Liberal reformism is in some ways more insidious, since it diverts people who are subjectively revolutionary into a dead-end strategy.
Thus, I have no moral choice but to dis Amy. Objectively speaking, her stated and implied politics is suicide for revolutionaries. I have nothing else to go on - if she opposes capitalism, I have not heard her say so after a decade of often listening to 'Democracy Now!'. Yet another expose is not going to change things in a substantial and sustainable way, unless it is tied to a program to unfold revolutionary proletarian socialism.
Hi emkay - I think you should get your medical care wherever it is available. We are paying for it with our taxes and we want you to have it. Your story is familiar to me and I know two like you who "deal with" the pain of their conscience and experience by refusal to participate. One of them lives in the woods like a troll and the other I don't even know where he lives most of the time. I wish you guys would band together and demand some care rather than surviving alone on the edges. It sounds like you have more leadership experience and resources than many, having been a college student.
Remember that while vets signed up out of misguided "patriotism" or were drafted, some people were getting into Yale and Harvard with C averages and have been thanked by living the good life and becoming president. Our political and corporate leadership ranks are littered with such.
Democracy Now's broadcast on this issue should win a journalism prize. It exposed the predatory and class nature of the recruiting. And incredibly, they procured an army spokesperson to participate, lending even more credibility to the discussion.
They had a really rounded panel of two kids who signed the non-binding contract to join when they were underage. They had recordings of the recruiters' follow-up messages when the kids decided not to go. They had a woman from a truth in recruiting organization, a spokesperson for army recruiting and a politician. Amy Goodman stuck to the topic, kept the thread logical and incisive by asking to-the-point follow-up questions.
The recruiters are under great pressure to get more fodder for our bases, invasions and occupations from an increasingly aware and resistant population of poor kids. They blatantly target the poor and say things like (paraphrase here) "do you want to be a man and have a paycheck or hang around on the corner and still be doing the same thing four years from now?" Poor sixteen and seventeen year olds have a hard time resisting the apparent truth in such statements.
The military seems to target Hispanic males especially, appealing to a sense of honor that highlights fiscal responsibility, caring for family and earning a living. One Mexican American family I know went with their underage son to the recruiting station after he decided (to their horror) to enlist. The recruiter told them not to worry - if their son was killed they would get $150,000. My reaction was that this was horrible because they put a dollar value on a beloved human. The family's reaction had a subtle but important difference. They felt this was racist and based on the idea that Mexican Americans care only about money and have no complex moral or political ideas.
PissantNobody, stop dissing Amy! Some years ago my local radio station picked up Democracy Now, and I would occasionally catch the show. She was instrumental in helping me wise up and realize that the US Government is pretty much an organized criminal gang. I don't think she has any illusions about rapid change, but she is instrumental in helping people realize what's happening in this country, and that's a good thing. And, to the best of my knowledge, she's not "blindly and endlessly" propping up Capitalism, she is, however, "endlessly" attempting to expose injustice and lies on the part of the US Govt. And, just to head off any further instruction on the evils of Capitalism, no problemo there, it is crystal clear that it is wrecking the planet and perhaps might end human civilization.
If the US military has a problem recruiting, it should focus on recruiting the children of all the Zionist NeoCons and dual citizen Israelis who lied the USA into this unnecessary war of choice in iraq. But, no, these fools and lying hypocrites will not have their children in uniform.......they have yours to go and fight and die for no good reason.
emkay
Don't go to the gov't with cap in hand, go with a lawsuit. It's the American way after all. (grin) A child soldier ought not to have been sent to vietnam. I'd say you rightly deserve va bennies especially when arsehats like bush got away with deserting from his post.
I try to treat everyone with respect by default until they show they don't deserve it. But I expect none unless I earn it. I slipped a bit here, but thank you all for extending civility and reasoned discourse, and kind words.
Birdlady @ 8:00, I don't know if that's the case either, I'm not a felon nor have I served jail time. I don't think there's any sort of national database for DD's to keep track of us old dissidents and troublemakers. I've never been questioned about my service when registering to vote. I seriously doubt at the County level where I've usually registered they check that sort of stuff.
I will check off that I'm a veteran on any sort of forms or whatever, but they never ask for discharge status. I'm not a 'proud vet', quite the contrary. I don't deny it, but I don't advertise it either.
I don't begrudge them the discharge really, I gave 'em trouble and they gave it back in spades. But I sure earned it--haha! As for fighting the Army, 'resistance is futile' etc.
And as for benefits, I never asked for anything from the Army or VA or government after my discharge, nothing, except to be left alone. As I close on 60 y/o however, being one of the working poor with no health care or insurance, living hand to mouth really (by choice, a simple quiet life) and starting to see many health issues that almost certainly could be Agent Orange related, I was persuaded by many vet friends I should try and get in the VA system for care. I just can't do it, I won't go to them, even if I did 'earn' it (and have it stolen away). I think I'd die here on my own dirt before putting myself in their care. I didn't pursue the discharge upgrade beyond downloading the forms and starting to write my plea. I just couldn't bring myself to go to anyone in the gummint with my hat in my hand. Sometimes, it's best to just let sleeping monsters lie. I still just want to be left alone.
I would gladly accept universal health care tho!
Jumpin' Jesus! Don't you folks ever get tired of psycho-babble and la-dee-da reformism? There will NEVER be a lasting reform of the imperialist mercenary war machine! Until the basis of war - capitalism - is eliminated, there will be no peace, no justice, and an endless stream of impoverished, deliberately dumded-down kids. Why would you ever think that an illegitimate government, led by the twisted masterminds of 9/11 and the Iraqi invasion, would stick to high principles in their war 'recruitment'? Maybe before talking about ignorant kids, the CD crowd should look into a mirror at their own willfully ignorant selves!
The formula remains the same as it has been for 150 years: build the party of world communism, integrate it into organized labor, and sieze power. I've always wanted to love Amy, but the simple fact is that articles like this actually serve to prop up capitalism by indicating that it can be fixed up. It cannot be fixed! Anyone who says it can is a liar, or an extraordinary ignoramus. There isn't even a credible theory of peaceful capitalism, yet we see false luminaries like Goodman blindly and endlessly implying that a wolf can be made into a sheep if we just dye its fur white. I'm disgusted!
emkay August 7th, 2008 8:00 pm
You have nothing to be ashamed of. They are just like we were....young, dumb and clueless.
I don't think anyone here at any time thought you were defending army recruiters. I know I didn't.
I'd be surprised if there is anyone here that doesn't think the more of you for your honesty.
Pax
emkay, Sorry our government has taken such disadvantage of our young people and threaten them into serving even if they were minors who later changed their minds.
One question I have for you is that you talked about voting. Are you eligible to vote? I thought one of the results of a Dishonorable Discharge was that you lost your voting privileges permanently. However, I could certainly be wrong.
War, when it is necessary, is something that we seem to have to do, but this current situation (for the past 5+ years) was a trumped up vendetta by the occupant of the White House and those who surround him.
To the forum, I do regret my earlier thoughtless outbursts, and apologize for being a jerk.
I am just so discouraged and cynical at the same time with what I see happening all around us (and you know what I meen) and I fear we have lost our country to the fascists. I have little to no hope we progressives will be able to make one whit of difference or change, no matter who is elected, it's just all gone too far and perhaps it all needs to come crashing down.
I just felt like the kids were getting all this sympathy in a sort of bleeding heart style and I had to push some buttons, I just lashed out.
I was never defending the army or recruiters, believe me! But when I hear about kids enlisting these days, my first thought is incredulity that anyone with a living brain cell would enlist knowing all we know now, but that assumes the level of awareness and political leanings of most of us here. Since the last I heard (please correct me) something like 50% of the troops in Iraq still think Saddam was responsible for 911--a testament to the level of propaganda we are exposed to. So my kneejerk reaction to people enlisting is they either must be brain dead to not know what they're getting into, or uber-patriots who want to go to Eye-Rack to kill some of them ragheads that flew the planes into the buildings.
I realize this is simplistic and stereotypical thinking, and I am ashamed to have displayed myself amongst this community in that fashion. All of the posts above are good ones that address the actual substance of the article, and you'll find no argument from me.
I'll sit down and shut up now. *sheepish grin*
The basic fact is that the Pentagon is the world's largest command economy.
It gained its position when the Soviet Union crashed and was taken over by thieves and thugs.
Today (and for always) the Pentagon is a command economy any Republican free-enterprise-for-poor and welfare-for-the-rich politician can support: and they do.
emkay August 7th, 2008 1:39 pm
Great posts. I congratul;ate you on your victory in standing to, but fighting all the way. I wouldn't give you a DD.
"I think with the passage of years, we forget what it was like to be young and ignorant but think you have the world by the short hairs and know it all"
Isn't that the truth.
I agree about the kids, they did sign up and they may be obligated, but we both know recruiters are snakes. They shouldn't be allowed to contact high schoolers anyway. I firmly believe you shouldn't be allowed to join before 18 in any case.
Both Ted Poe and Gene Greene are honoralble guys, especially Poe, a straight shooter. I'm sure that if needed they will get top the bottom of this.
I can testify the Army's assurrences that 'bad apples', will be punished have been false for over half a century.
Someone in my outfit in Japan was forced to go on a 15 mile march with full field pack, as a punishment for previously being AWOL, and was beaten by a sergeant with a baseball bat, all over his body from the beginning to the end. When I complained about the beating I was told the sergeant would be 'busted'. Later on most of us were sent to Korea where I saw the sergeant with all his stripes intact.
The soldier beaten had a indentation on the top of his head the size of a fifty cent piece, about a 1/4" deep, that he had been born with, and was severely "mentally challenged" and should have never passed the draft board medical examination in the first place.
emkay;
Interesting backstory to your arguement. I know that the us military is quite diff from the cdn one, and think that if they adopted the rule canada has you'd not have many soldiers getting out of basic. But the posters above are right, there is no way for the army to enforce a contract between them and the kids, unless the kid wants to comply with the deal. Your serving in the military when under 18 is f'ed up, children ought not to be in uniform. Hell, I was 19 when going thru basic and the mcpl's thought I was too young to serve...
Thanks emkay for helping me understand your history and perspective.
PS ... of course, the US military routinely says that law does not apply to them. If the US military followed the law, we wouldn't be at war in Iraq in the first place.
A contract signed on a fraudulent basis is not a valid contract. You can't lie to someone in convincing them to sign, then once the lie is revealed to say 'oh, you signed the contract, its now your responsibility to fulfill it.' Contract law would instead rule the contract invalid because it was signed under fraudulent circumstances.
When this 'recruiter' is doing time in the brig at Ft. Leavenworth for kidnapping, then I'd believe the military is serious about saying this is not their policy.
Mr Locke, thank you for a reasonable response. No, I didn't mean to condemn them or so harshly at that (having a pissy day, sorry). Yes, I can forgive them, and simply because I was young and stupid too, at least as far as the military and gummint goes.
I think with the passage of years, we forget what it was like to be young and ignorant but think you have the world by the short hairs and know it all, and in those kids' cases, like probably a good percentage that enlist, they really are limited to very few options these days if you're underprivileged for whatever reason. It was a bad and illegal war then, and it is now too, and I suppose we all think we have a good or at least passable excuse of a reason for joining, phony patriotism and jingoism aside; but I think the times were very different back then, or at least we hadn't fully pulled away the curtain on the Great and Powerful Oz. Those who remember the sixties may understand what I'm unable to articulate well--the mood, the times...today everyone is hunkered down and either too busy watching Murkin Idle (sic) and taking care of Numero Uno or they are hanging out here and ranting. *grin* But we certainly don't see the level of dissatisfaction with our society and priorities and government in the young, or many of the old for that matter.
After reflecting a bit on my previous post, I think the point I was trying to make (another one!) was that I realized I'd made a bad choice, and it wasn't simply a matter of toughing it out (that too) but how to turn the bad situation resulting from my bad decisions to my advantage, or at least so I could come out with some self-dignity and maybe strike a blow against the machine. I would think it must be some kind of maxim that Jonah could do more damage to the whale from inside than out.
So I served my time, but I fought them from within every minute. They got the last laugh, from their POV, but at least I could hold my head up when I finally walked away with that Dishonorable Discharge.
Emkay, that is a killer post. Also, if I were an amateur psychologist or something I would suggest to you that in forgiving those kids their foolishness, you are finally forgiving yourself, sounds like bad tv writing doesn't it? maybe it is true.
Leave no child behind education gives government access to harassing America's youth ---
Is this the military or the Gestapo --- ???
Alright, alright, I came across a bit too brash, but the very minor point that I intended but failed to make is that people need to assume responsibility for their actions.
Disregarding the point of the article, well made by several that they were minors, lied to, etc, and I am not disputing or arguing with (against?)the kids signed of their own free will. Nobody held a gun to their heads. They signed up, so I say suck it up and live with the consequences. About 75% of the problems this society has is because people won't accept responsibility for their actions. If you're ignorant you have only yourself to blame, really.
And before there's any more misunderstandings or lectures, I also enrolled in the deferred enlistment plan as well as the buddy plan--back about forty years ago. I was about one day into 17 y/o. I did two tours back to back in 'Nam from '68 to almost '71. The bud I enlisted with had the good luck to be busted for pot possession and the Army refused his enlistment, so he never went in. They did try to draft him tho, but waving his paperwork he rightly claimed if I wasn't good enough to enlist, then I'm not good enough to draft!
No, I wasn't some war mongering patriot, nor was I deceived by crooked recruiters (altho they do lie like rugs). I was graduated from HS at 16 and already accepted at a college and would have been headed down the Phd route in the marine sciences that Fall. But back then we also had a draft, and they were only giving out two year student deferments. I elected to go in for three years so that I could get out and pursue my education without the worry of being drafted out of college after only two years of an eight year program. And no, I didn't need the education VA benefits for school, my family had established a trust fund to pay for college. Not rich, but 'privelaged' I was. I admit it. But also already concerned about social justice (or injustice).
Ancient history, let's move on. It didn't take a week into basic training to realize the terrible mistake I'd made, but unlike in Canada, Skippy, they don't let you go home if you don't like basic, trust me. I tried everything to get out, including AWOL, being gay, being crazy--they've seen it all. And I even tried to transfer to the Navy or AF, willing to add an extra year (four years). Nope. Not even with the intervention of my Massachusetts Senator.
I also was a conscientious objector, a fact the Army found more hilarious than threatening since I enlisted. Their simple answer was fine, then you don't have to carry a gun if you don't want to, but when people start shooting at you...you'll come running. I ddin't take basic training per se, I was the CO's driver, and I only had to take the marksmanship test to graduate. I was second in marksmanship from my entire company, a skill that earned me a few weeks in sniper school. It was fun a subjective way, but I never planned on killing anybody, nor did I to my knowledge.
At the time I was actively in the military, I was also an active member in SDS ('Students for a Democratic Society' for you youngsters out there, google it, lotta history there), and was working at a draft dodging clinic in South Carolina. This got the FBI on my case after they broke in and stole all the records from Chicago or whatever it was. Between the FBI and CID and the Army, I was in one peck of trouble. The bottom line was they said shut up and go to 'Nam or we'll charge you with advocating violent overthrow of the government, sedition, treason and enlisting under false pretenses, as I was obviously a 'communist'. They told me we will stick you so far away you'll never see the light of day and you'll simply disappear. The FBI hounded me for years afterwards, and for all I know, I'm still on one of their lists as a dangerous peace monger.
After they read me the riot act I realized I needed to suck it up and make the best of my situation or it could get really ugly, so I did go to Nam, I did go as a CO, and I fought the military right to the bitter end, eventually deserting after my tour (they screwed me royally in ways we don't have time for), being picked up many years later by my old friends the FBI, dragged in chains to NJ, stood trial for desertion and plea bargained a dishonorable discharge, but at least I was back home in a week. The army hounded me for years with bullshit as well. I have no benefits, no nada, not even VA care for the Agent Orange shit I got over there. I am forbidden by the terms of my discharge to ever set foot on a military installation again. Fine with me.
Oh, I was told within the past several years I could apply for a discharge upgrade, possibly, if I could get my Senator to take an interest in my case. Too bad I live in Arizona and McCain is my rep! Hahahah! And nobody ever said anything about 17 being too young for contracts, perhaps legally, my parents sold me down the river by co-signing, since they were over 18 or 21 or whatever the age of consent was back then.
I guarantee you there's a lesson for those poor kids in all this, and I guess it's I made my choices and decisions, and I learned very early you need to accept the consequences of those decisions. They do too.
That is really all I was trying to say before, but failed to.
Sorry for the long post, I am one of the infrequent posters but an avid reader and supporter of CD, and I also will not vote for Obama, so as a side note, all you people claiming we 'Obama haters' are rethuglican shills, I have never voted for an R in my life nor will I, and have always called myself a Democrat until maybe ten years ago, when I saw which way the wind was blowing and started voting third party. I've worked in the streets, in marches, I put my freedom on the line for the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement, I actively helped draft dodgers while in the military--yet for all that, I felt I needed to fulfill my obligation in deed if not spirit--not out of loyalty, not out of patriotism, but because the core, bedrock tenet of my godless existence is to assume responsibility for my actions and decisions.
Anyone who is blaming the kids in this situation (and you know who and what you are) should be "enlisted" and sent to Afghanistan immediately. The kids are not the ones who are "fools" and "ignorant."
But, the best line in the whole article:
"Texas Congressman Ted Poe, a Republican, said: "Our country cannot deceive its citizens."
Right - spoken like a true Republican.
Bah-waaaa-a-aaa--ahahah--!!!!!
frank1569:
I was wondering the same thing myself. Perhaps this is the reason Marquette was suspended; not for any impropriety, but for allowing the hotel floor to be breached and it's "valuable resource" to escape.
So three kids were able to "sneak" a friend out of the clutches of the Toughest Military In The World???
No wonder Iraq and Afghanistan are going so damn well...
There may be many other pre-enlistment victims who were lied to, and got suckered into going. A class action lawsuit with a subpoena of recruiting office records is in order.
emkay said: "As despicable as all the above is, the fools enlisted willingly, no sympathy here for them if they're tossed in jail for reneging."
Actually, since the "fools" in question are MINORS, they can not enter into a binding contract with anyone. Period. So the fools are the US Army who, against the basic tenets of contract law, are attempting to enforce a contract with a minor... not gonna happen. Contract is null and void... if there was a contract at all.
"You can't fight a war with the Army you wish you had, but only the one you tricked into serving" - D. Rumsfled
What's sad in Texas is that our so-called latino leaders are no shows when it comes to defending the people of Texas. Where are they in this? Where's LULAC? Where's MALDEF? Where are the latino Blue Dogs in Congress? After we get out of Iraq, I hope Obama sends troops to liberate Texas!
emkay: 'fucking morons.'
I don't think so. I work with kids like this throughout the year. They are totally apolitical; many come from broken homes; many are in the lower 25% of their high school classes; and most believe the bullshit fed to them by the recruiters because they have no other source of information.
I understand your feelings, in fact, I am tempted to feel that way at times. But these are, for the most part, ignorant kids. I remember talking to one just last year, a farm kid who loved to hunt, and the recruiter used that love of the outdoors and of firearms to convince this kid that he could become a sniper - a killing machine. I asked him to look about the room and tell me which of his classmates he would be prepared to kill. He couldn't reply. I then explained to him that 90% of the victims of wars are innocent civilians - just like his mother, his sister, and his friends. This he understood.
Don't condemn these kids. Help them understand.
Emkay: "As despicable as all the above is, the fools enlisted willingly, no sympathy here for them if they're tossed in jail for reneging"
You've got the wrong end of the stick Emkay. These underage kids didn't enlist, that is the point. They "preinlisted" in a non-binding contract. The recruiters then lied to the boys. The army told the teenagers that they would go to jail if they didn't go to basic training, and that after training they could leave if they wanted. This is, of course, the opposite of the truth. After basic, they would go to jail, Canada or Iraq.
Anyway, no big deal, eh congress? The recruiter is just another bad apple I suppose. No need to go up the chain of command. No point anyway with impeachment "off the table". What's that congress? No time to impeach? Too divisive to impeach? Don't want to criminalize policy matters such as "breaking the law"? What's that Pelosi? …You don't know of any crimes that have been committed?
So, if you don't join you're a criminal? Minors can't sign contracts that are enforcable in law, that I know of anyhow. They might be able to sign a contract with the military with their parent's consent. But until the oath is sworn they're not in the army, hell in Canada you're not really in the army until you're out of basic. You have the right to quit at any point of basic training, of course you have to pay your own way home...
As despicable as all the above is, the fools enlisted willingly, no sympathy here for them if they're tossed in jail for reneging. What, did they think they could sign their lives over to The Great Satan and then change their minds and the military would pat them on the back and say, "That's OK we understand, you can just go home and we'll forget the whole thing"? Fucking morons for enlisting in the first place, tho I realize it seems like a great career move if you're in the uneducated and underprivileged group the military is targeting.
If the U.S. military ever had any honor, it is certainly devoid of it now. Contract bribes and the revolving door mililtary / industrial complex, refusing to testify before Congress on numerous occasions, lying about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman, refusing to allow a Congressionally requested person report on the incredibly high incidence of military rape and assault (this week), hiring private firms to now do enlistment (guess what - less Congressional oversight), etc. Oh yes, lest we forget - much of the military, especially the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, has all but been taken over by high ranking officers who push their right-wing Christian religion on their recruits. Funny, I suspect the recruiters don't tell the parents that either.
Take away all the reenlistment bonuses and see how many young Hispanics, Blacks, and rural whites join the team. Read the US recruiters' manual - it actually states that the recruiter should psychologically manipulate young men and women - become their best friends, attempt to position themselves in place of the school counselor, etc. They dupe school administrators and kids into taking the ASVAB test, telling them it is an apptitude test that provides valuable career information, then they use the personal information from the test cover as a device to contact students out of the school environment.
This is an army of the poor, providing mercenary services for the rick - nothing more, nothing less. It has little to do with national security and everything to do with establishing the US global empire throughout the world.
This country is a lie. Keep your children home. Confront recruiters - especially when you see them in schools. Your kids are worth more than hollow promises and a life tormented with remembrances of violence and inhumanity once their tour of duty is over.
Ah....the all volunter force; or should I say farce.