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Copenhagen: Just a Cop Out?
Despite its disappointments, the climate summit in Copenhagen marks a turning point—the end of denial. What's next is recognizing that our climate problem is really a justice problem.
Copenhagen was obviously a failure—if you judge it by "the numbers," the formal emission targets and financial commitments that are needed to support a fair, effective, emergency global climate mobilization. If you judge it, that is, by what is necessary.
The more pressing question, though, is whether Copenhagen was a failure when judged against what was possible. This is a much more difficult question, and has far more to do with judgment than with calculation. And much more to do with the immediate future of climate politics.
The good news is that the truth is coming out, and that people all over the world are seeing it. Everyone, and I imagine this includes Barack Obama, knows a hell of a lot more about the climate crisis, and its politics, than they did a year ago. Not, to be sure, that we didn't already know that climatic destabilization is triggering a planetary emergency. This has been obvious for years. The difference now is rather that—thanks to the 350 movement, and here I mean not only the folks at 350.org, but also Mohamed Nasheed, the President of Tuvalu and a whole lot of terrified scientists—we know that we know it. And that we know it with appalling, quantitative confidence.
The bad news is that after Copenhagen, we also know that the elites are at their limits. That what is needed, as the Copenhagen street had it, is "system change not climate change," and that lacking system change, our governments are quite incapable of organizing a decisive response to the climate crisis. The bad news, more particularly, is that if we in "civil society" are to do better than our putative leaders, if indeed we are to help the elites break their own chains of powerlessness, we're going to have to actually dare to assign a bit of responsibility for the Copenhagen fiasco. The bulk of which, alas, will have to go to the wealthy world.
The NGOs grouped into CAN, the Climate Action Network International tried to come to Copenhagen prepared. They even had a scenario analysis close at hand, one that categorized the possible outcomes with names like Breakthrough, Foundation, Greenwash, and Collapse. It was a useful exercise, but the power of the Copenhagen drama, as it finally played itself out, defeated all attempts at easy characterization. I suppose that if you had to pin it down, the outcome would have to be placed somewhere between Greenwash and Collapse. Or, to put a finer gloss on it, in the "not done yet" territory, which is how CAN decided to frame the result.
Looking at the generalities of the Copenhagen Accord and the 2010 negotiating schedule, this may be fair enough. Obama himself took the same line, in a late-night press conference that was actually pretty badly received, calling the accord a "meaningful agreement", but adding that "This progress is not enough," and "We have come a long way, but we have much further to go." Which is a fairly obvious point, given that the accord, such as it is, seems (see for example the Climate Scorecard) to condemn us to about 3.9 degrees Celsius of warming. This is the "Four Degree World" scenario, and it's a fairly magnificent understatement to say that we want to avoid it at almost all costs.
But of course Copenhagen is not the end of the game. The negotiations will continue, as will the organizing, and with the next major climate conference scheduled for Mexico City in November of 2010, they are quite certain to have a major impact on the United States. And if, in the meanwhile, we in America can manage to pass halfway decent climate and energy legislation, we may yet discover that the Obama strategy—which John Holdren, his chief science adviser, characterized during Copenhagen as, simply, "getting started"—offers a plausible way forward, one that can make real progress even in a nation overtaken by insane right-wing ideologues.
Or maybe not. The difficulty here is that understanding can too easily degenerate into accommodation. Yes, we are paralyzed by our right wing, and yes this constrains our choices, but the fact remains that, by not paying our way, by refusing to accept anything like our proper share of the responsibility for the crisis now threatening to overcome us, we make the dithering and dysfunction inevitable. Which of course brings us to the equity side of the story, and here there are several key points to report.
One is that, in a signal development, several self-defined vulnerable country blocs emerged in Copenhagen to play extremely significant roles, and managed to do so while protecting not only their local interests, but the interests of the developing countries as a whole. The first of these vulnerable blocs, of course, was AOSIS, the Association of Small Island States, which face rising seas and, in extreme cases like Tuvalu, actual short-term inundation. But Africa, which has discovered the extent of its own vulnerability, also played a critical role, and by so doing helped to protect the South as a whole from being blamed for Copenhagen's failure to deliver.
Not that the right-wing press won't blame it anyway, but at this point I doubt that the gambit has real legs. For while the African people are among the world's most innocent, in terms of their historical contributions to the climate crisis, they will also be among the most brutally impacted, and this is an injustice too obvious to easily set aside. Witness the open letter that Desmond Tutu sent to all heads of state during Copenhagen, a letter that noted that:
"If temperatures are not kept down then Africa faces a range of devastating threats such as crop yield reductions in places of as much 50 percent in some countries by 2020; Increased pressure on water supplies for 70-250 million people by 2020 and 350-600 million by 2050; The cost of adaptation to sea level rises of at least 5-10 percent of gross domestic product."
With these sorts of prospects at hand, it's difficult to be too sympathetic to the North's domestic political problems. Which is why—and this might perhaps just be wishful thinking—I believe that the rich world will fail to effectively evade responsibility for Copenhagen. There are counter-arguments, of course, and gross media distortions by the score, but so far the failure to reach a better deal is not being blamed wholly on the South. And given that the large "emerging economies" signed onto the accord, it's unlikely that it will be.
Indeed, given the wealthy world's failure to adopt strong domestic emission reduction targets, and its equally egregious failure to put a decent mitigation or adaptation support package onto the table, the Copenhagen endgame—in which the emerging economies agreed to the Accord while the weaker and more vulnerable states balked-may well have been the best possible outcome. (Watch the final, 3:10 a.m. plenary here; you won't regret it!)
In this regard, it may not be absurd to hope that, as Copenhagen passes into history, the overall framework by which we understand rich-world commitments will shift in significant ways. For one thing, and despite a clear desire to do so (it inconveniently requires them to "act first" to significantly reduce their emissions) the rich countries did not succeed in setting the Kyoto Protocol aside. But while Copenhagen laid out a two-track negotiating process, including a "Convention track" in which both the US and China can, perhaps, both be eventually coaxed into accepting their fair shares of the global effort, the "Kyoto track" has also been extended. This gives us a clear mandate—to continue the battle to force the wealthy countries to make commitments on the scale demanded by the science, and by their own historical responsibility and capacity to pay—and just as importantly it gives us a context within which to do so.
The road ahead is clear enough. The next big date is February 1, 2010, by which time countries of all kinds are expected to pledge their emissions reductions. When they do, the battles will predictably, and quite properly, flare up all over again.
For the moment, let me add only that Copenhagen, for all its disappointments, marked a turning point. The need for a global emergency mobilization is obvious, and with it, a set of social and political challenges that can no longer be denied. These challenges will get clearer in the days and years ahead, but the essential situation is already before us, ready to be discovered—with the atmosphere's ability to absorb carbon now critically limited, we face the greatest resource-sharing problem of all time.
The climate problem, in other words, was and remains a justice problem. If we fail to solve it, it will be in large part because we refuse to see it as such.
- Posted in



108 Comments so far
Show AllWonderful, another partisan piece of crap article pushing a scam of unimaginable proportions. Using terms that separate us into groups of opposing factions, keeping that Hegelian Dialect alive, so as those that wish to enslave us have a clear path in doing so.
This author makes the assumption that global warming is a foregone conclusion, that there aren't millions, indeed a majority, of voices pointing out the fraud of global warming/climate change.
The reason Copenhagen failed is because of leaked emails weeks before the conference exposed it as a con, perpetrated on junk science. And that countries got a chance to read the secret draft of the accord, exposing the fact that the unelected bankers that would control the global government being formed would rape them even further than they already are.
This isn't about saving the environment, it's about global control over every living thing on this planet. It's a false issue, a false-flag attack on commonsense, science and anyone that falls for this con.
I find it pathetic that this site would not publish one single article that exposes this whole global warming theory for the fraud it is. That they simply accept this theory without even listening to critics. And they profess not to be nonpartisan.
yes..but copen hagen failed because of too much consumption by the global north. You are eating the planet. stop it.
Your talk is cheap.
Last time you spoke of thousands.
This time you up the ante to millions
and claim majority backing.
Sure, you can be a critic,
but your critique is based on nothing.
Show me the science.
The evidence of anthropogenic global warming is overwhelming.
Here you go Sparky,
http://newsbusters.org/node/10756
http://www.junkscience.com/
http://www.globalwarming.org/
http://www.examiner.com/x-17412-Macon-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m7d29-Public-opinion-turning-against-global-warming-almost-as-quickly-as-science
http://www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/globalwarmup.html
... and this is only a small portion of the 28,200,000 articles one can read by Googling, "global warming science skeptics".
As to polling:
Gallup latest has 41% saying the threat of global warming is exaggerated.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/116590/increased-number-think-global-warming-exaggerated.aspx
In all the other polls a significant percentage reject global warming, and all these polls were done BEFORE the revelations of the leaked emails.
Here's my contention, I too started out believing the lies, until I spoke with some scientists that absolutely refuted the entire theory. Than I started doing research and found that those profiting most from this scam were the very same people promoting it.
And some of the so-called science is so easily exposed as false as to be childish. As an example, arguments that melting ice caps are causing rising sea levels. If this is true, I would ask you do a simple experiment. Take a glass of water filled with ice, let the ice melt. Does the glass overrun?
Plus nothing in the current case for global warming explains past climate changes when neither humans nor industry could have been a factor. Between 1,000 and 1,300 AD vineyards were grown in Northern England, what, I may ask, caused that warming? Campfires?
The fact is there are enough skeptics of this theory to give pause for further, unbiased debate before we go handing over power to a group of power-hungry control freaks is more than needed. Yet, proponents of global warming seem to be the most feverish, obnoxious deniers of open debate I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.
For the proposals they're pushing does NOTHING to curb real pollution. For I would ask, how does moving a plant to a country that does not have to abide by the accords stop pollution? And than trading some phantom carbon-credits, how does that do anything but give a green-light to those that do pollute?
At the very least, there needs to be a more honest debate on this subject before we go around accepting a global government that is neither elected or can be held accountable. For if Copenhagen were a success (by global warming proponents standards) and the accord was ratified and signed, it would have usurped our Constitution. Are you really that ready to throw out that document, and give up your sovereignty, for a theory that is not yet settled?
I for one care a bit more about my country.
Your use of the ice-in-a-glass experiment is at best disingenuous. Reapeat the experiment, but this time stretch some "land" over the glass and place the ice cube on the top. I would suggest that you place the glass in a bowl this time. Melting of the Arctic sea ice will not make a significant difference to global sea levels, but meltwater from glaciers most certainly will .... but you know all this don't you?
What you might not know is the fact that if you start with ice-water in your ice-melt experiment the level in the glass would, at first, actually fall when all the ice has melted. So the initial melting of arctic ice may actually be delaying global sea level rise (slightly).
If you really rely on arguments based on such distractions as the ice-in-a-glass experiment, then I suggest your comments are a worthless distraction. If you have not spent a few days chasing up the skeptical arguments in www.realclimate.org or www.skepticalscience.com and point to where you have discussed your reservations at these sites then you have not done sufficient research.
The oceans are also rising because they are warming, and so expanding.
That goes unsaid in my bit ... but the behavior of icy water will have a (very) small negative effect.
Here is what media matters thinks about news busters.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200912090012
Whoever told you that melting ice caps do not raise sea level was playing you as a bit of a fool. Yes the northern ice cap is floating on the ocean, so the ice in the glass analogy works nicely there. But most of the Southern ice cap and most of Greenland is on solid land so as they melt they WILL raise sea levels. As the oceans warm, they expand and this also contributes to the rise.
"...nothing in the current case for global warming explains past climate changes when neither humans nor industry could have been a factor."
Then by your reasoning you would argue, nothing in the recent cases of humans causing the extinctions of the passenger pigeon and the Dodo bird explains why other species went extinct before humans were around. Huh?
And actually if you do some research you'll see that over geologic time there has been times when CO2 was much higher on the Earth and the climate was much warmer. Also look at Venus it is much hotter than it should be because it's atmosphere is mostly CO2.
I got family coming over so I gotta go. But you need to researching things a bit more before you put your fingers to a keyboard again. You are making yourself look a bit silly. Discrediting your arguments is like shooting fish in a barrel.
But have a Merry Christmas anyway.
"I spoke with some scientists that absolutely refuted the entire theory."
Huh. Absolutely refuted the entire theory.
So different molecules in the atmosphere DON'T actually retain heat differently, and we could cut down all the forests and burn all the fossil fuels, and it actually makes NO DIFFERENCE to the surface temperature of the Earth. Astonishing!
My God, this is beyond astonishing! "Absolutely refuted the entire theory"!!! Who are these scientists? i'm sure their names will go down in history with the other greats who revolutionized our understanding of the Universe!
And this indeed must be the most evil grand conspiracy in the history of human evil, to have fooled so many hardworking honest decent unimpeachable persons, like Desmond Tutu, not to mention the vast majority of all working climate scientists. Are these scientists who "believe" in the discredited theory of "global warming" each being threatened with death? How is this hoax even possible?
Thanks for your work though, but you must be terrified if you expose this hoax! Is there a witness protection plan for climate hoax whistle-blowers? What steps are you taking to protect your life and your loved ones?
You are truly a hero and a very very brave person. God bless you!
"The greatest trick the devil can play, is to get people to believe he doesn't exist."
The greatest scam ever? There's an argument there between 9/11 and this, but yeah, it's certainly one of the greatest.
And I don't know what's so hard in understanding the magnitude of this fraud. Let me give an example.
For over 5 decades our government has been systematically poisoning us in plain site and to date there is hardly a word being raised against this treasonous act.
Fluoride, a byproduct of the manufacturing of aluminum is a toxic waste. There are laws against dumping it in the ocean, yet our government puts it in our drinking water.
Faced with this toxic waste corporations looked for ways to make a profit from it, so they paid for studies that would come to conclude that it somehow prevented tooth decay. It doesn't, but for the sake of argument, let's say it does.
One now has to ask what right our government has to medicate us, no matter what the positive result?
But when one researches the history of fluoride it becomes clear why.
Fluoride was first used in Nazi concentration camps because when added to water they found the average IQ dropped 20% and the prisoners were more docile.
So here is an ongoing fraud of 50-plus years, literally involving millions of people, and you ask how this scam of global warming can be pulled off?
Our universities could not function without private and government grants. The very first thing controlling powers do in subverting any independent, free society, is to usurp the educational system. Without coming to the conclusions those that fund you want, you don't get the money, and jeopardize your job. Hence, you report what gets you the money.
Next you control the message buy owning all avenues of mass communication. This, for anyone that can stand to watch MSM has been achieved. The "public airwaves" is a misnomer, there is nothing "public" about them.
If we can watch buildings EXPLODE, as they tell us they "fell", and people can believe that tripe, well, they can certainly tell you Polar Bears are dying off (they aren't), ice-caps are melting, (they do, than grow back) and damn near anything else they want you to believe.
So I reject your false argument that this is simply "too big" to have pulled off. History proves you wrong. The use of the "big lie" has been used over and over again by tyrants wishing to subjugate those that are free, in that the bigger the lie, the more apt people are to believe it.
There is no disgrace in being fooled, the disgrace comes from once exposed to the truth, you continue to believe the lie.
This is not an argument against AGW.
The hell there isn't. Otherwise why are discussing this?
Just to point out the obvious:
What i mean is, "Your post in no way offers any argument against the theory of AGW."
But you see that, right?
Your string of references to grand scams, hoaxes, and interested parties influencing public understanding, is relevant to an understanding of the massive corporate effort to DISCREDIT climate science.
"There is no disgrace in being fooled, the disgrace comes from once exposed to the truth, you continue to believe the lie."
So now that you see the evidence on this page about the vast consensus among working scientists and working climate scientists about AGW, you will no longer believe the lies you have been promoting about some sort of dispute among scientists. And then you will look at "the obvious" interested parties who earn trillions off the energy and transportation systems, who have a corporate interest in promoting the idea of a "climate hoax" and who have funded denier organizations.
No you won't, because you are NOT HERE for honest purposes of examining science, you are here to disrupt and derail discussion.
"you are NOT HERE for honest purposes of examining science, you are here to disrupt and derail discussion."
Exactly right.
Sioux Rose
WEBWALK: Flawless logic! Excellent post (many tonight), and gracias. The Earth thanks you, too. Human intelligence coupled with genuine sensitivity for living beings would serve as an apt Christmas gift for The Great Green Goddess Gaia. It's strikingly overdue.
Thanks Sioux, and Happy Holy Days to you.
As Michael Franti sings:
"Every bit of land is a Holy Land
"Every drop of water is a Holy Water;"
So every single day is a Holy Day, yes?
Anyway, up here in the far north (Seattle), the Winter Solstice is true cause for celebration, as the 9 hours per day of daylight begins slowly to grow longer, and the 15 hours per day of darkness begins slowly to diminish...
We could go back and forth, each delivering articles giving a solid argument on the science of climate change/global warming, pro and con.
Which in essence proves my point. There is a great deal more that needs to be explored and no need to rush into the formation of a global government.
Which leads me to the tipping point and why I believe the skeptics over the hard-core greenies pushing global warming. Centralization of government.
The concentration of power being set-up to deal with this still debatable theory is against everything this country stands for. Its bad enough we have a federal government that is so far beyond what is written in the Constitution, as to give one pause, and cause for revolution, but when there is open talk, and acquiescence coming from a large portion of the populace to joining a global centralized government, one that I might ad is unelected, and totally unaccountable, that alone makes me stop in my tracks and oppose this with ever fiber in my body.
There is NOTHING that we can't cure locally better than has ever been, or ever will be, coming from a huge centralized form of government.
LEAK;
Just the fact that you misuse the word "skeptics" shows you have NO education in scientific thought or practice at all. And NO scientist would use the word NOTHING in a scientific context.
I could spend a day going over everything you have written with the purpose to deconstruct your argument, revealing it for the pseudo science it is but it would bore me and everyone else to tears.
Just know this, we know you are a fraud. You are an example of the most evil form of propaganda there is.
The SCAM is that you are arguing like a lawyer, making a debate, while pretending to use scientific protocols of discussion. You are in fact stealing the imprimateur, the prestige and trust of the scientific community and their centuries of work in making our lives better and using it to make false arguments.
You make me sick.
Yes, COTO are sickening. About the only thing I would say in your post that isn't completely correct, Morticia, is the assertion that they (Link and other members of COTO) are a fraud. I assure you that these folks really believe what they are saying.
They are a small, cult-like bunch of people who are convinced they are the few who are aware of and stand against a New World Order, bilderberg, illuminati conspiracy. They are similar to cults in that they are completely convinced they are right, they reinforce each other's beliefs and no other evidence is accepted. If you try to address them with facts, they will say that every piece of evidence you have is somehow tainted by those in the above conspiracy. Of course, this makes any meaningful dialogue with them impossible.
The trouble is that the New World Order was part of the Bu$h-Cheney et al's scheme for corporate control of everyone and everything - remember PNAC? It is becoming clear to most people that there was no change of government on January 20th this year, so PNAC has either served its purpose or it lives on. Corporate control of congress is plain to the most casual observer.
Amen to that.
They all violate the priciple of the Logan Act. Accept bribes and eventually spin through the revolving door and this newly elected fresh meat are managed by the original lifers. GHWB and Clinton were birds of a feather as Baby Bush and Obama.
One thing you can say, the elities and banksters know how to recycle don't they?
What's obvious Cotokiller is that you have already disqualified yourself as scientific, unbiased or credible by your comments and your handle. Did you post and run from COTO or get your feelings hurt.
COTO represents what thousands of other bloggers, whistleblowers, researchers and writers are discussing and exposing. A systematic movement to world governance perpetrated under a vast assortment soft serve agendas. An H dialectic process of divide and conquer, creating the problem with a planned solution and a consistent result in the redistribution of wealth to highest order of elitist, corporatist and "too big to fail" bailout recipients. You know, those cult-like groups in the green movement like the FEO, The National Breeders Association, Margaret Sanger, WHO, funded by Rockefellers, Ted Turner, George Soros, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, The Ford and Carnegie Foundations, The Sierra Club and Club of Rome.
When you get past the climate change argument, be prepared to discuss the population change problem as they go hand in hand.
"The SCAM is that you are arguing like a lawyer, making a debate, while pretending to use scientific protocols of discussion."
I lost all respect for "DEBATES" or "DEBATING" when I took a class in it and one of the first things we had to do was debate from the side that was opposite from what we knew to be true. To me most debates are farces, its just a mental game to try and win an argument or convince others the point you are arguing is true, even though you may know it is not. I'll take digging up facts for oneself over listening to or taking part in a "debate" every time.
I personally wouldn't walk a across a street or pay a dime to hear a "debate". A good liar can win a debate over a thoughtful honest person with the facts on their side, just because the honest person isn't as verbally adept as the liar is.
To me "debating" is just silver plated B/S, and there are some fine examples of shiny cow patties all over this discussion thread.
I'd appreciate you boring yourself to give me some details on the facts.
How many models were used in the data? CCMS3 and all previous versions?
Is it true that most of the data from some models had not yet incorporated many if any of the amplifying carbon cycle feedbacks, like the saturation of the sinks or the melting of the permafrost?
Did the IPCC stops taking scientific input a year or two before the year the report came out?
Who were the representatives of the Scientific Steering Committee during the time of the lost/missing data excluded from the report? And why did CMAP reorganize suddenly? Who was in and who was out?
Why were the datasets run thousands of times until they derived the required results? Overkill or manipulation?
Can't one change the relationship opportunistically between the proxy and temperature, in order to get the result they want to get? I'm sure it has been done before.
Why isn't Professor Jones or CRU credible? Why is the next report scheduled for 2014?
__________
If you have facts, you admit to having faith in data sets and the controllers.
If you have indeed done the research, then look ouside the box. Look at the twenty years of aerial spraying, the barium, aluminum, and the Woodpecker/HAARP and the other scaler facilities under construction. (12)
Look at who stands to profit from CC&T and who is poised for technologies, manufacturing and financing.
Research this
CHINA WEATHER MODIFICATION – Technology Review
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/20463/?a=f
Energy from the Vacuum – Scaler Interferometry – Lt. Col Tome Bearden
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7920095/Weather-Weapons-Scalar-Electromagnetic-weapons
Michael Chussodovsky – Global Research CA
Excluded from the Copenhagen Agenda:
Environmental Modification Techniques (ENMOD) and Climate Change
The manipulation of climate for military use
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16413
THEN ASK YOURSELF WHY THE THEY ADOPT THIS AGREEMENT IN 1976
Adopted by Resolution 31/72 of the United Nations General Assembly on 10 December 1976
http://www.un-documents.net/enmod.htm
Now you should really be sick!
>>>TRIADGAMES wrote: Look at who stands to profit from CC&T and who is poised for technologies, manufacturing and financing.
Why don't YOU look at who stands to profit from the status-quo?
Alycon,
We started COTO when Bush Cheney were there. We ate his lunch too! I was calling it an oil deal in 88 when his daddy was setting things up. This is what separates us and them.
Those who don't see the true 2 party system "Liars and Crooks"
I'd personally like to see a green movement. One by the people, jobs for the people, new entrepeneurs and not the same 1% elites and monolith corporations.
What I don't want is the largest global governance formed to dictate whether you can grow a garden. If you don't conclude the liberal prince is a UN administrator who wants global global GMO, Vaccines, billions of Carbon units destroyed and a new tax base in which to control every freedom you have ever known, then you are still are trapped in the paradigm and destined to eat Soylent Green until such time as they euthanize you.
Touche'
OK i looked at your links, they are NOT scientific refutations of anything, they are partisan and propaganda sites.
The Competitive Enterprise Institute? The American Policy Roundtable? Esteemed scientific institutions, NOT.
The APR site cites the discredited OISM sign-on as demonstrating that "Most scientists do not believe human activities threaten to disrupt the Earth's climate". Yeah sure, the petition with no vetting of the scientific credentials of the signers, penned by the OISM which is not a scientific institute, has no faculty, teaches no classes, does no research, and whose phony "paper" on climate change was published to look like a peer-reviewed paper from the National Academy of Sciences but was explicitly denounced as phony by the National Academy.
Here's a site that analyzes the petition's claims:
http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/02/152-oism-scientists-cant-be-wrong/
So, Leaky, your skepticism about the scientific consensus around AGW is... leaky.
Here's an excerpt from the link i cite:
While it’s not possible to test the validity of OISM list directly, it is possible to test the conclusions that have been drawn from the OISM list. Specifically, we can test what percentage the 30,000 “scientists” listed on the OISM petition represent when compared to the total number of scientists in the U.S. And we can then compare that to the percentage represented by the 2000 IPCC AR4 WG1-associated scientists as compared to the estimate number of U.S. climate-related scientists.
According to the OISM website, anyone with a Bachelor’s, Master’s, or Doctorate of Philosophy in a field related to physical sciences is qualified as a scientist. In addition, the OISM sent the petition cards pictured above only to individuals within the U.S. Based on this information, we can us the OISM’s own guidelines to determine how many scientists there are in the U.S. and what percentage of those scientists are represented by the OISM petition.
The U.S. Department of Education tracks the number of graduates from institutions of higher education every year, and has done so since either the 1950-51 or 1970-71 school years, depending on what specifically the Dept. of Ed. was interested in. This data was last updated in the Digest of Education Statistics: 2008. We’re specifically interested in the number of degrees that have been awarded in the various scientific disciplines as defined by the OISM in the list above...
Table 1 shows that there were over 10.6 million science graduates as defined by the OISM since the 1970-71 school year. This is a conservative estimate as illustrated by the 242,000 graduates in biological and biomedical sciences from 1950-51 through 1969-70 alone, never mind the 166,000 engineering graduates, and so on. Many of these individuals are still alive today and would be considered scientists according to the OISM definition thereof.
The OISM website lists how many signatures they have for scientists in each of their categories. Given the number of graduates and the number of signatures claimed by the OISM, we can calculate the percentage of OISM-defined scientists who signed as referenced to the total...
The OISM signatories represent a small fraction (~0.3%) of all science graduates, even when we use the OISM’s own definition of a scientist.
However, as mentioned above, it’s entirely reasonable to ask whether a veterinarian or forestry manager or electrical engineer should qualify as a scientist. If we remove all the engineers, medical professionals, computer scientists, and mathematicians, then the 31,478 “scientists” turn into 13,245 actual scientists, as opposed to scientists according to the OISM’s expansive definition. Of course, not all of them are working in science, but since some medical professionals and statisticians do work in science, it’s still a reasonable quick estimate.
However, it’s not reasonable to expect that all of those actual scientists are working in climate sciences. Certainly the 39 climatologists, but after that, it gets much murkier. Most geologists don’t work as climate scientists, although some certainly do. Most meteorologists do weather forecasting, but understanding the weather is radically different than understanding climate. So we can’t be sure beyond the 39 climatologists, although we can reasonably assume that the number is far less than the 13,245 actual scientists claimed by the OISM.
13,245 scientists is only 0.1% of the scientists graduated in the U.S. since the 1970-71 school year.
We can, however, compare the number of atmospheric scientists, climagologists, ocean scientists, and meteorologists who signed this petition to the number of members of the various professional organizations. For example, the American Geophysical Union (AGU) has over 55,000 members, of which over 7,200 claim that atmospheric sciences is their primary field. The OISM claims 152 atmospheric scientists. Compared to the atmospheric scientist membership in the AGU, the OISM signatories are only 2.1%, and this estimate is high given the fact that the AGU does not claim all atmospheric scientists as members.
The AGU hydrology group has over 6,000 members who call hydrology their primary field. The OISM list has 22 names that claim to be hydrologists, or 0.4%.
The AGU ocean sciences group claims approximately 6,800 members. The OISM has 83 names, or 1.2%. And again, given that AGU membership is not required to be a practicing ocean scientists, this number is inflated.
The American Meteorological Society claims over 14,000 members and the OISM claims 341 meteorologists as petition signatories. That’s only 2.4%.
It’s clear that the OISM names don’t represent a significant number of scientists when compared to either the total number of science graduates in the U.S. or to the number of practicing scientists who work in likely relevant fields. But that’s not all.
Here's the last bit that wouldn't fit:
Over recent years, various organizations have set out to estimate just how widespread the supposed “scientific consensus” on AGW actually is. Two recent efforts were conducted by the Statistical Assessment Service (STATS) at George Mason University and by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. The STATS survey found that 84% of climate scientists surveyed “personally believe human-induced warming is occurring” and that “[o]nly 5% believe that that human activity does not contribute to greenhouse warming.” The STATS survey involved a random sampling of “489 self-identified members of either the American Meteorological Society or the American Geophysical Union” and it has a theoretical sampling error of +/- 4%.
The Pew survey was taken in early 2009 and asked over 2000 members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) their opinion on various scientific issues, including climate disruption. 84% of AAAS respondents felt that “warming is due to human activity” compared to only 10% who felt that “warming is due to natural causes.” The AAAS has over 10 million members, and the results of the survey are statistically valid for the entire population with a theoretical sampling error of +/- 2.5%.
84% of 10 million scientist members of the AAAS is 8.4 million scientists who agree that climate disruption is human-caused. 84% of the climate scientists (conservatively just the members of the atmospheric science group of the AGU) is, conservatively, 6,000 scientists who have direct and expert knowledge of climate disruption. The 13,245 scientists and 152 possible climate scientists who signed the OISM petition represent a small minority of the totals.
The IPCC AR4 WG1 report was written and reviewed by approximately 2000 scientists. If we assume that the 20,000 AGU members who claim to be atmospheric scientists, ocean scientists, or hydrologists represent the pool of potential experts in climate science in the U.S., then approximately 10% of all climate scientists were directly involved in creating the over 1000 page report.
That compares to less than 1% of all OISM “scientists” who mailed a pre-printed postcard.
Sioux Rose
WEBWALK: Thank you for the copious research notes on this matter. Allow me to share a rather funny anecdote, as it begins to illustrate the point (or persona) that cannot see truth due to a "pre-existing ideological condition."
In 2000 I was living in St Pete and decided to use one of those computer matching services to find a new significant other. I never had a larger candidate pool in my life. In any case, I went on many dates, and one guy was quite an interesting email "conversationalist," so I agreed to meet him for a date. He told me what I needed was "A good Christian man," and then at dinner I made a disparaging remark to the tune of, "You didn't graduate from Bob Jones University, did you?" He said "right" of that. In any case, here is this guy who's quite reasonable on a number of subjects, and has a degree in biology (!) from this Christian fundamentalist "school," and truly does not believe what archaeology and earth science so vividly depict about the age and history of our planet. There are people, some who are purportedly educated, who can be looking right at the truth, and bypass its scope entirely. This forum's drift net is wide enough to catch a few of those.
Sioux Rose
LEAKY would probably be arguing FOR slavery if this was 1860. And he'd probably argue against the women's right to vote, and quite possibly is now delighted that even under Obama, a woman's right to choose has taken another bludgeoning. Beyond ironic in a nation that operates like Scrooge and can forego health CARE to children, but never met a bomb design it didn't fall on its knees to fiscally worship.
Anyone who wants to argue that humans should do nothing but maintain their derelict usage patterns of energy and collateral substance, must HATE nature, and therefore the one honest and enduring thing about LIFE itself. Your denial is KILLING MY PLANET.
You putting words in my mouth does nothing to bolster your argument.
Please point out where I said we should do nothing about curbing our wasteful ways?
You can't. I never have made that argument. We do pollute, but the fact that the environmental movement was hijacked by power-mad control freaks that are making the one thing they can seize upon to control us is a valid point, and one that can be substantiated.
But enough of your COINPROTEL games.
You left out the National Enquirer.
I just wasted my time looking at those links and found a wasteland.
http://www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/globalwarmup.html
Trots out the standard, denier disinformation - no references. Conservative site with hundreds of domain names and obviously very well funded. Make of it what you will, but it certainly isn't bringing any enlightenment to the world.
http://newsbusters.org/node/10756
Nigel Calder. Conflating 1) a single scientist's over-enthusiastic remark with a major sector of climate scientists. 2) Does not deny that there is overwhelming evidence for GW. Nothing of substance.
http://www.junkscience.com/
From a scientific point of view, I am sure you wouldn't mind me calling it undiluted garbage.
http://www.globalwarming.org/
Any site that would give Monkton ("never one to be constrained by mere fact or observable reality"), uncritically, the time of day is worthless.
75% wrong.
Wrong about science. You can do some science by checking out what has been happening to glaciers and you can learn what science others have been doing at www.realclimate.org ... and, about that hack at CRU - nothing in the emails shows anything more than the cut and thrust of private discussions.
25% correct.
But then we already have world government in the form of international banks controlling the lives of most people on this globe.
Progressives will continue to lose until they recognize that there is a fundamental basis of common interest - tolerance, commonweal, community - that transcends their differences. If this ever happens the relatively very few, but presently very powerful reactionary forces will no longer be able to divide and destroy them.
>>>the Leak wrote: And they profess not to be nonpartisan.
That's a double negative.
The Leak is either a paid actor or braindead.
My guess is the former, a tool, used to create diversion
from the global problem of climate change.
Never before have I called anyother poster a name here.
This is such nonsense that it merits no respect.
Gee, I'm sorry, am I raining on your partisan love fest?
Well, so much for honest debate. Nice to know you are so close minded.
But you see, there are a great deal of people that simply don't swallow whatever paid-off scientists spew out. I don't know what's so hard to understand that when universities that can't function unless they get grants from companies that request studies looking for conclusions that bolster whatever aim they're looking for get it from said scientists. You either give them the results they want, or you find yourself out of a job. Sort of like "fixing the intelligence around the policy", or have you forgotten how that worked with the Downing Street Memos?
As to your insults, I leave them as they stand, they are the last refuge of a lost argument.
Yep, Buck, welcome to the wonderful world of COTO. See my above comments regarding the subject. I hope the mods here are paying attention.
Not only is Rome burning... but all the world is burning.
Satellite data (photos and charts) on my computers clearly demonstrates that the TREND over the last 150 Earth years, and especially in the last twenty Earth years, manifests an increasing unstable climate on this planet. And what's really alarming... we are at the insipient stage of a SOLAR MAXIMUM.
There are the ignorant... and then there are the willfully ignorant. The former are exactly that: ignorant. The latter, however, are stupid. Willfully ignorant people are more than ignorant. They are stupid!
It's a difficult article to read (understand), but I think the author is saying that the Copenhagen debacle is not a total loss because the discussion, and hopefully, action will be on-going and because public/world awareness of climate change and the dangers inherent therein has grown - i.e. more people (now organizing) realize what's going on, more are prepared to do something about it, and there's a real possibility that the biggest polluters and governments can be pressured into acting.
Here is my two cents worth, on human population, global climate change, and natural resources.
I don't know how many of you have heard of SETI. It is the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Well for many years they have been listening for signals from other planets but have heard nothing. One theory for the silence is that advanced civilizations just don't last that long. They literally burn out. It's called the Olduvai theory. Lets use our civilization for an example.
It took us about 10,000 years to put a billion people on this planet. We are now adding people at the rate of a billion every 12 years. Go out and find a graph of world population for the last 10,000 years. The last 100 years looks like a frigging graph of the growth of a yeast culture, in a brewery.
A little time spent on the web and you can read articles about us being at peak oil, glaciers that supply water to millions melting rapidly, oceans rising, water tables drying up, precious metals peaking, rising CO2 levels, fisheries in decline, topsoils in decline, and the list goes on and on and on...
Now any reasonable person with an once of common sense, (this excludes ALL main stream economists), knows that you can NOT have indefinite growth on a finite planet. So my guess is that in the not two distant future, (within 100 years for sure), this whole advance civilization crashes. Oil which has allowed our civilization to grow beyond the carrying capacity of the earth goes into decline, and people start to starve big time in most countries, and freeze in colder ones.
Most countries are not cooperative so resource wars are fought over the remaining oil, water, fish stocks, etc. The whole thing basically goes "Mad Max" so to speak. What survives is a much smaller population, that must survive in a world stripped of most of it's valuable natural resources.
I suspect this has played out again and again though out the universe over time. Civilizations only remain at the very advanced stage, where they light up the space around them with radio energy for relatively short period of time, then they burn out and go dark again.
I know it sounds a bit grim, but I see no other way around it. Anyone out there feel free to argue against this theory please. I would like to see a reasoned thoughtful argument for a world like it is in Star Trek where we have all the energy we want and we zip around the galaxy going faster than light.
Oh yea, and Merry Christmas to all!
Interesting points that cannot at first glance defy dispute. After all, liars don't figure, and figures don't lie.
I would add though that I give mankind more credit, (there are people that would laugh at me saying that) but, for the sake of sanity, I try. I would like to believe that there is something more, that we do have the ability to manage both to keep our individual freedoms, within constraint of a structured society, that both manages available resources, and finds new ones, at the same time we learn to live peacefully with each other.
Utopian perhaps, but its all I got. I see it. Therefore it can be. And I know I'm not the only one. As an intelligent human-being you've at least projected a better world than the one at present, so have many others, from poets to, dare I say, politicians, from sages to the sacrilegious, we can all envision the world we want.
Is it attainable? I don't know. But I'm going to live my life as though it is.
Sioux Rose
NC: Your scenario short-sightedly projects the worst of all huMAN traits onto an E.T society as if the only way to organize sentient beings/society follows those models drawn up by flawed human beings in the last several millenna under ostensible (in terms of not only ideology, but the entire structures of self-defined civilizations) homage to Mars. By this I mean societies are competitive, rahter than cooperative, champion war and brute force over intelligence and deft negotiation skills.
Just as there were OTHER models for living that existed before written HIStory, there are other models that advanced beings may have figured out that the earth-blinded have not yet. A lot of sci-fi follows from the macho militarized model, this idea that the human being and his ego represents the pinnacle of intelligent life, the template from which any other sentient life form must come (and come to reflect). That direct use of force = power.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, than dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."
Siouxrose, I first thought you were typing on a small, cramped keyboard and were hitting the CAPS-lock key by mistake :)
Sioux Rose
ALCYON: Like most Leos, I have a thing for drama; and since I can't raise my voice tone in the forum, my caps have to do it for me... showing emphasis where I believe it's due. I liked your post above, and appreciate your bringing facts to our forum's "epistemological fugitives."
I agree that other societies could be organized differently with different ideologies, but if they choose to become industrial they will all run into the same issues with being stuck on a rock with finite resources, in the isolation of space. If they were cooperative they would definitely use much less resources, because they wouldn't be fighting wars. But building large cities and transporting things use lots of energy and resources so they would most likely find themselves at the point we are now. It would just take them a lot longer to get there.
I'm also guessing that for a society to become industrialized, they will need a ready fuel like oil in large quantities. Has bad as Oil is for the environment it is truly almost magical in it's uses for manufacturing, transportation, and on and on... How many planets would have a resource like Oil? Dunno. But I would guess it would probably be somewhat rare.
Space travel would be a way to get around resource issues on the home planet, but as you can see it is very expensive, dangerous, and not practical if you have to move massive amounts of material to another planet.
On the other hand if a civilization chose to stay somewhat primitive/tribal they could last almost indefinitely but SETI wouldn't hear from them because they would never develop technology like radio.
Hiho! Brother-man ... yes indeed COTO knows.
Nice to see you here. There are many ducks in this pond that need their tail-feathers pulled. And you with your prowess for command of facts, your steal trap memory are welcome, all coupled with you're cunning wit are welcome here by me.
Now that I have a tag-team partner, are there any takers?