In Thursday night's Democratic presidential debate, Hillary Clinton lied again about Iraq.
At the forum in Los Angeles, Hillary Clinton declared, "We bombed them for days in 1998 because Saddam Hussein threw out inspectors."
That statement was totally false. The bombing campaign had been planned for months and the inspectors were not thrown out. They were ordered out by President Bill Clinton in anticipation of the four-day U.S.-led bombing campaign.
The chronology, which is on the public record, is as follows:
In early 1998, the Clinton Administration began to raise concerns about Iraq's refusal to allow inspectors of the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) to visit so-called "presidential sites," a liberally-defined series of buildings and grounds across the country that Iraq claimed were used by government officials. Even though subsequent evidence has revealed that the Iraqis had nothing to hide, since all proscribed weapons and weapons material had long since been eliminated, Saddam Hussein held firm. Given that a number of prominent American political leaders from both parties had called openly for assassinating him, however, the Iraqi leader's reluctance to allow Americans into presidential palaces may have been a result of concerns that such access would make him and other top officials personally vulnerable. Furthermore, the Iraqis had complained that, despite a stated policy of avoiding staffing UNSCOM with experts from "intelligence providing states," there was a disproportionate number of Americans involved in the inspections, who would deliberately prolong the process and could potentially provide information to the U.S. military. The Iraqi dictator also reportedly had an obsessive compulsive disorder which led him to order that his palaces be kept meticulously clean and made him particularly reluctant to allow large groups of foreigners to move about his homes.
The Clinton administration's insistence upon raising this issue at that time was rather suspect: Such Iraqi restrictions on these "presidential sites" had existed since the beginning of the sanctions regime nearly seven years earlier without any concerns publically expressed by United Nations officials. Yet suddenly, in January 1998, the Clinton administration decided that it had become an intolerable violation of UN Security Council resolution 687, which called upon Iraq to verify its disarmament, and warned Iraq that the United States - despite the lack of Security Council approval as required - would engage in a sustained bombing campaign against their country if the Iraqis did not allow these inspections of presidential palaces to go ahead. By February, a large-scale U.S. military assault seemed likely. However, United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan was able to broker a deal late that month that opened the presidential palaces to UN inspectors, but with an additional diplomatic presence in recognition of the sites' special status.
The disappointment by Clinton administration officials that the bombing campaign would not be able to go ahead as planned was palpable. Clinton did not give up on its search for an excuse to attack Iraq, however.
At the end of October, Iraq imposed new restrictions on UNSCOM as a result of revelations that the United States was indeed illegally using UNSCOM as a vehicle for spying on the Iraqi government. On November 10, in response to pressure from President Clinton, UNSCOM chairman Richard Butler announced his decision to pull UNSCOM out of Iraq without the required authorization from the Security Council. Iraq then reversed itself and agreed to allow the inspectors to resume their activities. The United States, however, was eager to launch military action, particularly by mid-December in order to take advantage of overlapping American military units on rotation in the Persian Gulf, which made it a particularly auspicious time for major air strikes.
According to former chief weapons inspector Scott Ritter, Clinton's National Security Advisor Sandy Berger - now a major advisor for Senator Clinton - met with Butler on November 30, when the UNSCOM director was instructed to provoke Iraq into breaking its agreement to fully cooperate with UNSCOM. Without consulting the UN Security Council as required, Butler announced to the Iraqis that he was nullifying previously agreed-upon modalities dealing with sensitive sites that limited the number of UNSCOM inspectors. He chose the Baath Party headquarters in Baghdad as the site to demand unfettered access, a very unlikely place to store weapons of mass destruction but one very likely to provoke a negative reaction. The Iraqis refused to allow the large group into their party headquarters, but did allow them unrestricted access to a series of sensitive military installations.
At that point, Butler and the Clinton Administration unilaterally ordered UN inspectors out of Iraq in order to remove them from the risk of being harmed by the massive U.S. air and missile strikes that were forthcoming. Back in New York, American officials then helped Butler draft a report blaming Iraq exclusively for the impasse in a late night session at the U.S. Mission across from the United Nations headquarters. As the UN Security Council was meeting in an emergency special session on how to implement a unified response to Iraq's non-cooperation, the United States - with support from Great Britain - launched an unauthorized four-day series of sustained air strikes against Iraq in what became known as Operation Desert Fox. In response, Iraq forbade UNSCOM from returning.
Surely Senator Clinton knew all this, since she has emphasized as evidence of her supposed experience in foreign affairs her close consultation with her husband and his national security advisors during these crises. Her claims during the debate, then, that the bombing took place because Saddam Hussein "threw out inspectors" is a boldface lie to rationalize for a four-day bombing campaign that killed hundreds of people, many of whom were innocent civilians, and which gave Saddam Hussein an excuse to refuse to allow inspectors to return to Iraq for the next four years. A number of strategic analysts (including me) publically warned prior to the December 1998 attacks that launching such massive air strikes would result in an end to the UN inspections and would result in reducing Iraqi compliance from 95% to 0%. President Clinton clearly wanted the inspections regime to end, however, presumably because - as Senator Clinton has acknowledged - the administration had shifted U.S. policy from containment of Iraq to regime change. Indeed, the resulting absence of inspectors became the principal rationale for President George W. Bush, Senator Clinton and others to support an invasion of Iraq four years later.
Indeed, in Thursday night's debate, Senator Clinton claims that she voted to authorize war against Iraq in October 2002 because "we needed to put inspectors in." However, this was also a lie, since Saddam Hussein had by that time already agreed for a return of the weapons inspectors. Furthermore, Senator Clinton voted against the substitute Levin amendment, which would have also granted President Bush authority to use force, but only if Iraq defied subsequent UN demands regarding the inspections process. Instead, Senator Clinton voted for the Republican-sponsored resolution to give President Bush the authority to invade Iraq at the time and circumstances of his own choosing regardless of whether inspectors returned. Indeed, unfettered large-scale weapons inspections had been going on in Iraq for nearly four months at the time the Bush administration launched the March 2003 invasion that Senator Clinton had voted to authorize.
This is part of a longstanding pattern of Senator Hillary Clinton misleading the American public about Iraq in order to justify her militaristic policies. It is important to remember that, back in October 2002, despite widespread and public skepticism expressed by arms control experts over the Bush administration's claims that Iraq had somehow re-armed itself, Senator Clinton was insisting that Iraq's possession of biological and chemical weapons was "not in doubt" and was "undisputed." She also claimed, despite the reports of the International Atomic Energy Agency that Iraq's nuclear program had been completely eliminated, that Iraq was "trying to develop nuclear weapons."
This inevitably raises concerns that if Hillary Clinton is elected president, she will have no qualms about lying once again to the American people in order to justify going to war.
Stephen Zunes is a professor of politics and international studies at the University of San Francisco.
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83 Comments so far
Show AllBe careful with those reality checks, Stephen..... someone might get the 'crazy' impression that the Bushes and the Clintons play on the same team. : )
As referenced in that excellent "Trip Down Hillary Lane", let's not forget the foreign affairs black ops history of this succession of Bush Dynasty Presidents:
> GHW Bush creates war fever by the fabricated Kuwaiti incubator deaths melodrama. We bomb the hell out of Iraq.
> Bill Clinton does a push-a-rabbit-back-in-the-hat trick with UN inspectors to create the illusion that Saddam is not cooperating in compliance with UN resolutions. We bomb the hell out of Iraq.
> George W. Bush lies about weapons of mass destruction. We bomb the hell out of them. And occupy.
Of course, now that the truth is needed to make the planned ideological switch back to the Port Side of the aisle, we're allowed to know - during the current Dynasty member's reign - that he's a liar and a scoundrel. Congratulations, America - you finally have been allowed to see true US Foreign Policy in action, instead of hearing about it years later. And you didn't have to hear about it from Noam Chomsky this time, (who's busy anyway, convincing the Left that 9/11 is the exception to the rule when it comes to deliberate false flag lies to get into big bucks, MIC mega-conflicts). And you also didn't have to go to an obscure CT website and wade through endless pages of alien abduction theories and photos of bigfoot and 'proof' that Jews and/or Masons run the world to get some dirty reality, and in real time. When these kinds of outings of truth are designed for US political regime change, then they are approved for publication on the MSM's front pages and prime time pundit shows.
Because it helps bring in Bush Dynasty Ruler #4, or Clinton Ver 2.0. (Or as I call her, new and improved VISTA. Much more stable and reliable, with Corporate Globalism Fascist Pack 2, and with better Wide Area Networking (wink, wink) than Clinton 98, or Clinton XPresident.)
Of course, it's preposterous to think these past 3 Presidents (and the one sitting in makeup) are all complicit essentially identical - except for their Donkey vs. Elephant bowling shirts - carefully controlled cogs in a very large, very powerful entity's agenda machine.
cinnamon said, "Reading the first paragraph, one might think Saddam a benign dictator who had provoked the USA.
I'm not saying zune is wrong;or that the Clintons were right here, but Saddam was a truly evil, evil person.
This imprssion given by articles like this that Saddam was not evil , something commonly seen in left media,is not winning any friends."
Sir, by no logic can you conclude that Zunes in this article, liberals, or anybody but madmen think of Saddam Hussein as a benign dictator (itself an oxymoron.) But it is far from clear that he is even the WORST dictator that was around in the last ten years; doubtless the Chinese are the number one killers of their own people at the moment (our ally with most-favored nation status; I have no source to prove this, it is only what I understand from admittedly anecdotal reading of the stuff one can find on the web, and if I am wrong on this point, I will gladly stand corrected.) So here is an important point of logic that you, and fundamentalists make. Just because somebody does not go round saying, X times a day, Saddam was evil, Saddam was evil, it DOES NOT then follow that those who have other and better things to say think, somehow, well of him, or would cut him slack of any sort. If, for example, we point out that Iraq was clearly better off under Saddam than at the present time, in the current opinion of many Iraqis [I don't know, haven't been there, so have no first hand knowledge of this,] it DOES NOT mean that Saddam is absolved and forgiven for his very considerable crimes. Similarly, for example, if a person is pro choice, it does not follow, WHATSOEVER, that the person is pro abortion. This is the kind of simplistic, and wrong, logic that you use in making your statement. My recommendation is that you give up characterizing anybody as an "evil person," under that great Christian dictum that reads, Judge not, lest ye be judged. Such only serves to divide when our human species needs now, more than ever in our history on Earth, to come together. Listen to Galadriel's words: Our quest stands upon the edge of a knife; stray but a little and we will fail, to the ruin of all.
So Evelyna, if it was a "swift war", and we reduced the US casualties to a minimum, would that have been OK? You see, I have a feeling that a great many Americans (and British) see it that way, if you can take out a country, leave it in ruins, kill the evil dictator, steal the oil, and then beat a hasty retreat before they start an "insurgency" campaign, then that is a job well done.
We shouldn't have started this mess in the first place.
A lot of people thought this would be a swift war and made a mistake.
re: toowilkie (February 3rd, 2008 7:56 pm):
i was gonna respond to your post, but as i read it again (since i couldn't believe what i read the first time) i lost control and puked all over my keyboard.
methinks you're stalking the wrong website.
Hillary should really take responsibility for helping lead the country into Iraq. It's important for voters to better understand Hillary's contribution to the war. Thus this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfsrE50yPTI
"you know what i find to be a bit queer? this is Common Dreams, a progressive (liberal) website, and who gets bashed day after day, Liberals. Try going to a conservative website and guess who is getting bashed, yup liberals. man, if the aliens landed tomorrow and tried to understand they'd leave really fucking confused. wouldnt you be?
you fucking idiots better get it together and try a little solidarity, or its going to be President Huckabee come this time next year."
________________
I think that you are looking at this the wrong way. Should people keep quiet simply because Hilliary is a Democrat/Liberal? It would be irresponsible not to examine each and every candidate simply because they are Democrat.
It would also be irresponsible to not call them on their misrepresentation of the truth or their screw-ups simply because they are liberals.
Citizens shouldn't be patriotic or loyal to the point of blindness. Your politicians work for you, not the other way around. It is the duty of every citizen to ensure that they vote in the best possible candidate who represent their ideals.
In Hillary's case I find too often she will say and do anything just to win. I think her best course of action would have been to just acknowledged that screwed up when she voted with the Republicans to go to war with Iraq. Instead she comes up with excuse after excuse and just digs herself a deeper hole.
Like the Saudia Arabians who have given Bill Clinton tens of millions of dollars to his Program of hidden
donators in Arkansas, Saddam should have followed suit and donated the same amount to the Billaries, as they no doubt were like the Bushees, "For Sale".
It has become public that Billary has also recieved a million dollars as a consultant for Dubai Ports where he now cliams to be owed some $20,000,000 from his investment in Dubai. Why our Corporate Press has chosen to keep this "Sell Out" by our complicit leaders has made the press also complicit in the Iraq war and all the other problems that we have inherited from this gang of self serving political raceketeers.
With both Hillary and McCain promoting the war under the misleading headlines, that we must irradicate the
"Muslim Terrorists" we are now inheriting the the failures of the Corporate Press that has refused to expose the serious conflicts of interests in the middle east and Asia. We are left with no recourse as we the public have no access to the competing press.
Liberal with an attitude: My point was that to make the change you suggest would be the kiss of death politically, and was not a commnent on whether, in a perfect and rational world, your wife's idea might be a good or bad idea. I want Social Security to still be around, which is why I suggested that we abolish the cap on the income end in order to raise a lot more money.
If the idea is just that the wealthy, as a matter of principle, ought not to get Social Security, that is one thing, but if you are suggesting something that you want to see enacted, then I think, as have many others over the years when this idea comes up, it is opening Social Security up for the "beginning of the end." And there are lots of people who would love to see it go completely. Don't forget you would also be breaking a promise to those who paid into it all the years, if you now tell them they would no longer be able to get the benefits. If you google the means testing for Social Security you will see that it is the rightwingers who support it. I am not one of them.
Countess 4:29
Women and older folks are supporting her just like the evangelist were supporting GW, blind to what the truth actually is, not looking further then their nose is long...and believe everything what comes out of her mouth. It would be great to have a woman as president, however, not HRC...
Ladies and Gentlemen:If you are believer or not of the "King James" bible so states that man is the caretaker of this world and women take a place behind man. Sorry if that offends any one, it is not intended to do so. If one questions the place of women in this world one should read the 'Old Testement and that will show the place of women. This world does not have to go to war and Hillary will feed it! Remember always who her husband was. Isn't all about oil anyway ?
Off the subject> The U.S. has no right to ingage in talks with Israel regarding giving and giving up more of the Gaza to the Muslins! Israel has never rightfully owned by anyone other than the Jews 'God's chosen people'. Israel has been taken by force and never-never owned by anyone else other than the Jews.READ THE BIBLE. The terrorists of this world are all part of the anti-Christ '.also take notice of the Veri-Chip don't be fooled by the means of GPS our children and grandchild, it to is the mark of beast,just like our SSI number ! Hey wake up !
THANK YOU,
What H.J. Resolution 114 "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq" actually says:
"Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution."
[Section 8(a)(1): SEC. 8. (a) Authority to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations wherein involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances shall not be inferred–(1) from any provision of law (whether or not in effect before the date of the enactment of this joint resolution), including any provision contained in any appropriation Act, unless such provision specifically authorizes the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into such situations and stating that it is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of this joint resolution." http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/warpower.htm]
"The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to—(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/october02/houseres_10-10-02.pdf
Question: On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 ) Vote Date: October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM Required For Majority: 1/2 Measure Number: H.J.Res. 114 Measure Title: A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
YEAs ---77 Allard (R-CO) Allen (R-VA) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Bennett (R-UT) Biden (D-DE) Bond (R-MO) Breaux (D-LA) Brownback (R-KS) Bunning (R-KY) Burns (R-MT) Campbell (R-CO) Cantwell (D-WA) Carnahan (D-MO) Carper (D-DE) Cleland (D-GA) Clinton (D-NY) Cochran (R-MS) Collins (R-ME) Craig (R-ID) Crapo (R-ID) Daschle (D-SD) DeWine (R-OH) Dodd (D-CT) Domenici (R-NM) Dorgan (D-ND) Edwards (D-NC) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Feinstein (D-CA) Fitzgerald (R-IL) Frist (R-TN) Gramm (R-TX) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hagel (R-NE) Harkin (D-IA) Hatch (R-UT) Helms (R-NC) Hollings (D-SC) Hutchinson (R-AR) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Johnson (D-SD) Kerry (D-MA) Kohl (D-WI) Kyl (R-AZ) Landrieu (D-LA) Lieberman (D-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Lott (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Miller (D-GA) Murkowski (R-AK) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Nickles (R-OK) Reid (D-NV) Roberts (R-KS) Rockefeller (D-WV) Santorum (R-PA) Schumer (D-NY) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Smith (R-NH) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Thomas (R-WY) Thompson (R-TN) Thurmond (R-SC) Torricelli (D-NJ) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA)
NAYs ---23 Akaka (D-HI) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Byrd (D-WV) Chafee (R-RI) Conrad (D-ND) Corzine (D-NJ) Dayton (D-MN) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Graham (D-FL) Inouye (D-HI) Jeffords (I-VT) Kennedy (D-MA) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Reed (D-RI) Sarbanes (D-MD) Stabenow (D-MI) Wellstone (D-MN) Wyden (D-OR)
"There are those who offer up easy answers. They will assert that Iraq is George Bush's war, it's all his fault. Or that Iraq was botched by the arrogance and incompetence of Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. Or that we would have gotten Iraq right if we went in with more troops, or if we had a different proconsul instead of Paul Bremer, or if only there were a stronger Iraqi Prime Minister.
These are the easy answers. And like most easy answers, they are partially true. But they don't tell the whole truth, because they overlook a harder and more fundamental truth. The hard truth is that the war in Iraq is not about a catalog of many mistakes - it is about one big mistake. The war in Iraq should never have been fought…
Some seek to rewrite history. They argue that they weren't really voting for war, they were voting for inspectors, or for diplomacy. But the Congress, the Administration, the media, and the American people all understood what we were debating in the fall of 2002. This was a vote about whether or not to go to war. That's the truth as we all understood it then, and as we need to understand it now. And we need to ask those who voted for the war: how can you give the President a blank check and then act surprised when he cashes it?…
We thought we learned this lesson. After Vietnam, Congress swore it would never again be duped into war, and even wrote a new law — the War Powers Act — to ensure it would not repeat its mistakes. But no law can force a Congress to stand up to the President. No law can make Senators read the intelligence that showed the President was overstating the case for war. No law can give Congress a backbone if it refuses to stand up as the co-equal branch the Constitution made it.
That is why it is not enough to change parties. It is time to change our politics. We don't need another President who puts politics and loyalty over candor. We don't need another President who thinks big but doesn't feel the need to tell the American people what they think. We don't need another President who shuts the door on the American people when they make policy. The American people are not the problem in this country - they are the answer. And it's time we had a President who acted like that."- Barack Obama
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/02/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_27....
"Iraq Coalition Casualty Count"
http://icasualties.org/oif/
"Documented Civilian Deaths from the Iraq Invasion"
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
"Clinton: I didn't think I was voting for the war"
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/31/clinton_i_didnt_th...
"Hillary Clinton on Iraq"
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4802
Tom Joad,
You think it is OK to insult people you don't even know because?
I did not pick up on your sarcasm because I did not recognize it as such.
Interesting all the comments about me being so ignorant, so uninformed, so "innocent"; well, I'm really none of those things. I just don't get my panties in a wad over that which I have no control over. I have a brother, who is a chief warrent office in the US Navy and has been a member of the navy for 30 or so years. He has had 3 tours of duty in Iraq and while he is very silent on the matter,[as most uniformed miliary officers are required by law to be], I choose to believe what little he tells me; I don't believe he would lie. . .not about a war; he is an honorable person who has given a lot to this country. Very rarely does my vote or support turn on one aspect of the issues before us. I have, like so many othe 50+ yo voters, held my nose and voted for the Democratic nominee; this time, with Hilliary I might not have to hold my nose so tightly, as she stands for more than just a miscast vote on a war not of her choosing. She, has for the most part, admitted that the war was a mistake and she will get us out of Iraq asap. I choose to believe her over all the members of the peanut gallary and their most noticeable rant over everything American their overt disappointment in life and politics in general.
I'm not American, but it does look from a distance like there's a problem with terminology. Like, what's the point of being "liberal" if it just means the liberal use of bombs? What's the point of being "conservative" if nothing is conserved? Obviously the names of the two dominant political parties in the U.S. are meaningless abstractions, and "you, the people" are all suffering mass delusion.
The carpet bombing of Iraq for the last decade, including the egregious use of depleted uranium, has all been about removing the "overburden" of Iraqi society so that "well-connected" US oil corporations can get at the trillion dollar prize of oil underneath. History and the cumulative genetic damage of radioactive weaponry will prove beyond any doubt that this is nothing less than a slow-motion genocide perpetrated by both the Republicans and Democrats upon the people of Iraq.
Ready for the next Nurenberg? Who will swing from a noose then?
The saddest thing about what Zunes says is that maybe 1% of voters will know about Hillary's deceit on Iraq, or care if they did know. It's a fairly convoluted bit of recent history, and nothing bores American voters more than that. It's like all the intrigue that surrounded the Iran/Contra scandal that never really did Reagan any damage. Bush Sr., who was instrumental in that affair, went on to be elected pres. The more complex the history, the less the MSM will say about it and the less the public will clamor to know. Zunes's revelations, already known to most progressives, will sway a handful of voters. Look for Hillary to easily take California Tuesday, the state where Zunes is employed. "Wake up, America." On second thought, keep dozing.
Whew!! What drama!
Some really good posts, people (and some really lame ones as well).
Just a couple of points. W and the neocons did NOT screw up in Iraq (nor in New Orleans). All is going as planned. Check out BP's & Exxon's & Chevron's earnings. The oil is staying in the ground, where the West (G.B. & the USA) have wanted it to stay for the past century. Most Middle East oil is still traded in U.S. dollars. Permanent military bases in Iraq. The Unocal pipeline is secured in Afghanistan. Remember, the plan is to make the gov't look ineffective, inefficient, and expensive. And the solution? Privatize!
Second point: The (D) and (R) party are in lock-step to deny any 3d, 4th, 5th parties from taking root. Give Americans the illusion of choice. Quickly winnow out those saying anything that makes the corporate masters nervous (impose such inane and childish conditions on the debates that the League of Women Voters throw their hands up in disgust and walk away, opening the door for a PRIVATE CORPORATION (don't let the name of the corporation, Commission on Presidential Debates, fool you) with an equal number of (D) and (R) party stalwarts making up the rules and dumbing-down the content. So: Nader is sidelined, Kucinich ignored. You get the picture. A binary solution: two parties, mirror reflections of each other, each with two candidates, themselves mirror reflections.
Are there differences between the (D) and (R) party? Yes. But most of those differences are irrelevant, and are highlighted by the corporate media to lull people into thinking they are making a decision. Rest assured that regardless of who occupies 1600 Penn Ave next year, NAFTA, GATT, WTO will live on. We will see no serious challenge to the one critical issue that ties together every other issue: corporate "personhood" and the power the corporations have accrued, thanks to the rights they are being given as "persons". So we will see no serious campaign finance changes, like public funding. No serious ethics reforms, like prohibiting lobbyists from writing bills and buying politicians. (Remember Hillary defining lobbyists as constituents?) The revolving door between the boardrooms and government appointments will be greased. The DOD budget will survive. Hillary and Obama talk about universal health care when what they MEAN is mandating (or as good as mandating) universal health INSURANCE. Gotta protect those big pharma-AMA-HMO-AETNA donors. The DEA and DHS will get bigger with more power than ever before. People like Joe Biden, who are more loyal to the banking & credit card & insurance industries than to the people who he is supposed to serve, will survive. (BTW, I was looking at the vote tally for the 2005 "Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act" -- consumer protection, that's a good one -- and was stunned at the number of (D)s who went along with the (R) majority, including, of course, Joe Biden & Tom Carper (DE), Debbie Stabenow (MI), and Harry Reid (NV). Hillary was the ONLY senator, (D) or (R), or didn't cast a vote on that one. And on the House side, Steny Hoyer was one of the (D)s supporting it. Looking out for the middle class, indeed!)
I am so tired of hearing leftists/progressives/liberals/whatever say "...but whoever ends up the Democratic nominee I will support."
THAT'S WHY PELOSI and HARRY REID GET AWAY WITH THEIR LAME-ASS, CHICKEN-SHIT, COWARDLY COWERING AND COVER-UPS. They've made the ballot requirements specifically to deny us the choice of a Progressive/Labor/Farmer/Populist Party alternative. (It's hard today for people to imagine there was a viable and popular Socialist Labor Party throughout the Mid-West in the early 20th century!) Pelosi's and Reid's (and their ilk) lives DEPEND on us saying "well, any (D) is better than the alternative" since the ONLY alternative is the "hated" (R) party.
Well, all I can say is that 7 years of BUSH and 6 years of (R) control of Congress has done a better job of politicizing Americans and shifting the population leftward than 8 years of Bill Clinton. Maybe we need even MORE damage before we can truly build a nationwide consensus for change.
Countess, I agree! How any self-proclaimed "progressive" can even TALK about supporting Hillary, Obama, or (shudder) Ron Paul is just beyond me. Come on! Bill didn't create 22 million jobs! He fattened the wallets of the Waltons and tele-comm execs and energy execs and defense contractors. Wages remained stagnant. Taft-Hartley survived. Unions declined. Jobs went overseas. Jobs that were created were in the service industry, or peoples' second (or third) jobs to make ends meet.
Hey, Medic6869: "We are not all in this together. When the candidates talk about protecting our national interests, they mean protecting Exxon Mobil's right to make maximum profit, not providing the working class with universal single payer health care."
Well said and spot on!
And, finally, to cinnamon:
WAS Saddam any more evil than Bush, Blair, or at-the-time Saudi Arabia's King Fahd or today's King Abdullah? Hussein managed to provide a peaceful, safe, secular society in a land of Shi'a, Sunni, and Kurdish tribes. Women were educated. The middle class thrived. Terrorists were not welcomed. The region was stabilized. Don't get me wrong. He had PLENTY of faults. But a lot of Iraqis today are saying life was MUCH better under Saddam than under American occupation.
Enough ranting.
It would be nice to means test Social Security and cutting the military budget to pay for it does not exclude that option. But too many Dems believe as Gene Sperling (Clinton's economics guy) stated one night on the NewsHour (pbs) that no one should have to reduce their standard of living when they retire. Get that? It's the job of the Federal Gov't to make sure we are all able to live above our means. And let's also not forget we're now paying around $400 billion a year for interest on the debt. That's about $1300 for every man, woman and child in this country--family of 4 $5200!
The debt is what this campaign should be about.
"Any fool at the time (2003) could know to doubt Bush's claims. Hillary was willing to accept them despite this."--COMarc,7:57 am
Not to mention the fact that anyone who had even a passing familiarty with Molly Ivins' writings would know better than to accept ANY Bush claims at face value. So was Hillary also ignorant of Molly Ivins?
4 the future challenged my idea to save SS
So you don't think that SS is upside down. That the people that pay into the most and deserve it the least should receive it when to them its trivial toilet paper money. wheres your head at? it should be like unemployment. everyone pays into it and only those who need it can tap into it. that is the way SSI benefits work. when you earn too much money they cut you off. You must be wealthy 4 the future. a limosine liberal perhaps. My wife pointed this out because her family is well off and she feels that they shouldnt receive SS benefits, and with their amount would equal a very good salary for most. but why they have quite a nest egg in investments. people that make below 100k are mostly living pay check to pay check with absolutley no investments only a work provided 401k and a checking account and maybe a work provided life insurance policy. with no discretionary money to invest. And I dont know about you 4 the future but retirement scares the shit out of me. My SS benefits wouldnt buy groceries.
Rockerbabe : You are indeed a babe. You are the leaders' favorite kind of American, a naive enabler. You seem like a nice person, but ultimately you are extremely dangerous to the welfare of the world. Get smart quick or consider yourself part of the problem.
Hickabee says about attacking without congressional authorization: I would do it in a heart beat.
`
This is American. Cut to the chase, spare the niceties,get it done. The law comes out of the barrel of a gun. That's American.
When New Orleans went, Blackwater disarmed all civilians. A private police force disarmed the population. Constitution? What constitution?
Medic6869
Did my sarcasm go over your head? Or did it just skip accross your low sloping forehead like skimming a flat stone accross a pond?
Tom Joad (Medic7071)
Nobody here has any power. The candidates, on the other hand, have been perverted by it. They are in adifferent league. Power ends up emptying you of values, leaves you an empty pseudo-human, like Hillary.
Clinton is saying what most Americans want to believe, given the fact that almost 50% of them believe that WMDs were actually found in Iraq. The interesting phenomenon is that that number goes up after a major speech from the whitehouse or propaganda surge.
estebandido February 2nd, 2008 4:06 pm
"I have been radical progressive since the sixties but will vote for Ron Paul or Huckabee or Nader or Mckinney a million times before voting for the architects of our Middle Eastern Black Hole."
Huckabee would gleefully cleanse the Earth of non-Christian brownies eg. see the interview below. Somebody said it right: if you are into supporting mass-murder around the world, forget about health care, economy, environment, equal opportunity etc. Doesn't matter if mass-murder and genocide are through Dems or Repubs.
From: http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11743
In striking contrast to Paul, however, the most shocking answer of all was given by none other than the mild-mannered, outwardly likeable Mike Huckabee. The Arkansas governor's public persona is that of a small-town mayor chock full of down-home American wisdom straight from the heartland, measured and never shrill. Yet the friendly farmer down the road evaporated before our eyes, and something awful and Cheney-like appeared in his place, when Matthews directed his question at Huckabee:
"Governor Huckabee, same question. Do you need Congress to approve such an action?
"HUCKABEE: A president has to [do] whatever is necessary to protect the American people. If we think Iran is building nuclear capacity that could be used against us in any way, including selling some of the nuclear capacity to some other terrorist group, then, yes, we have a right...
"MATTHEWS: Without going to Congress?
"HUCKABEE: And I would do it in a heartbeat."
"In a heartbeat" – there goes the Constitution!
BTW, the whole Democratic line is one big giant lie. Surprise, Surprise that.
Look at it this way. The inspectors had been back in Iraq for months. They had full run of the country. No interference or impedance from the Iraqis. Anyone who doubts this can go to the UN website and read their reports to the Security Council that state this.
Thus, it was obvious to any fool that the Americans had no hard facts about Iraqi WMDs. If they had any facts, they could have used these to lead the inspectors to the evidence. And remember, these inspectors could look for very faint chemical or radioactive traces that you couldn't just sweep under the rug.
At this point, it was obvious to any fool that Bush, Cheney and the rest were lying out their rears about the Iraqis having WMDs.
At the very least, it was obvious that there should have been more time taken to confirm the facts. There was certainly no reason to accept the Bush admin at their word.
And this is what's obvious to those who didn't have access to the more secret intel reports that Hillary never bothered to read. She had access to the reports. Every Senator could go down to the room with the secret documents and read them. Those that did were very skeptical of Bush claims.
Any fool at the time could know to doubt Bush's claims. Hillary was willing to accept them despite this. And since she, like Kerry before her, has spun all this BS about being 'fooled by the intel'. Its all crap.
Besides which, she acts like no one tried to tell her. Did she forget about the 30,000,000 of us who got out and marched around the world to try to warn her not to support this?
And I saved the very worst for last. The Dems claimed at the time that their giving Bush the authority for the Iraq war was a campaign tactic that would lead to a mid-term election victory. The vote was supposed to take Iraq 'off the table" and allow the Dems to refocus the election on more domestic issues.
The Dems deliberately killed 4000 American servicepeople as a campaign tactic. Just like they've led another 1000 die since they had the majority in both houses so they could keep Iraq as an issue to again lead to another election victory.
Hillary's a lying bitch that supported this war from the beginning. Most likely because in 2002 it looked like the best way to get her sorry ass back into the White House. Go look at the "eyes wide open" exhibit that the AFSC has been doing around the country with its thousands of empty combat boots. Every damn one of them is dead because Hillary and the Dems supported this war from the beginning.
Remember, the Clintons killed a million Iraqis on their watch. Bush has killed a million Iraqis on his watch. The only difference is the choice in weapons. One choice slow starvation by denying food and medicines. The other choose bombs and missiles and chaos.
The Dems are correct when they say they can be better managers of the Evil Empire than the Republicans. The Dems under the Clintons killed their million Iraqis for less cost to the American taxpayer and at the cost of far fewer American lives.
Of course, it would be radical to suggest that maybe we shouldn't be killing a million Iraqis every eight years. You'll have to vote Green if you are a radical thinking muther @#%$@# who thinks @#%@# like that.
The truth is important. Politicians and the corporate media will sell it very cheap. But the truth is important. We must always fight to keep it alive. And take note of who keeps trying to bury it.
Let's face up to a few facts here, when it comes to your final election (or even who will represent the two parties for President), the sheeple will not remember who lied four years ago, or even last week. We on CD have the ability to retain important facts, over a period of time. We use these events to help us make judgements about our politicians. Sheeple on the other hand, have only a short term memory and limited attention span. If you tell them something before breakfast, they will have forgotten it by dinner, because a lot of other things have happened in between - more eating, eight hours of television, going out for a few beers with friends.
What I am trying to say here, is that the great unimformed masses in the Western World, have far more important things to do, than worry about what Hillary Clinton said about events in Iraq in 1998. The female sheeple will still vote for her, "because she is a women, and we all have to stick together", and the male sheeple will be impressed by whatever populist garbage she spouts on the day of the election.
And did Obama point that out? Or does he stick to the official narrative too? Those people who hate war (that's all war, including ones against Iran and Pakistan) need a candidate who will speak these truths. Assuming Obama is the one simply involves buckets of self deceit.
Liberal with an attitude said "lets say that the only people to receive SS would be people making 100k and less" The only reason that Social Security has survived this long is because it is NOT a means-based program. As long as it "belongs" to everyone equally, then everyone is motivated to protect it. As soon as it becomes a program for only the poor or relatively poor, then it will be dismantled.
So, on one hand, LWAA's suggestion is a reasonable one, and has been floated many times. But it is reasonable in a political vacuum because if the political realities are taken into account, it becomes apparent that this reasonable measure would be the kiss of death to the program.
There is another way to save it, since everyone is entitled to Social Security payments, everyone should pay Social Security tax on all of their wage income. Remove the salary cap, and suddenly there is a whole lot more money. Since doing that would only affect the higher income brackets, it hasn't happened, and is rarely even mentioned. Keeping Social Security available to all, is the best way to ensure that it continues. Were it turned into a means-tested program, the wealthy powers that be would soon cut it and then eliminate it.
Whatever the confusion, Hillary Clinton still basically lied through her teeth about Iraq. Bill also lied again when he said he was against the war from the start. What bull. Bill had spent the 1990s bombing Iraq continuously and starving its people under a widely condemned sanctions regime, leaving of course Bush to finish the job.
And the Dem loyalists here who bash bona fide progressives as Republicans I guess see politics as a zero sum game. You are either for us or against us. Typical.
I don't know about the 1998 events, but regarding the run-up to the Bush invasion, which is what she was asked about, she was totally accurate and did not claim the inspectors were thrown out by Saddam. She referred to letting the inspectors finish their work (they were still there) instead of Bush launching a pre-emptive war.
THE TRANSCRIPT:
Clinton: "And unfortunately, I and others who warned at the time, who said let the inspectors finish their work, you know, do not wage a preemptive war, use diplomacy, were just talking to a brick wall."
There does seem to have been some confusion regarding 1998 versus 2002/2003 in the discussion, partly due to her own lack of clarity about the two time periods.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me continuously, I'm a Hillary supporter.
The arguments as to whether Hillary will ever be truthful are in themselves untruthful. Hillary's highest calling is to me a politician, regardless of truth or principles.
Why you don't have to support Hillary, in her own words.
"If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from." ~ Hillary Clinton February 2007
The problem with the democrats - http://www.wordsareimportant.com/democraticparty.htm
(slightly humorous if it wasn't so sad)
To those of mindless Dem Party followers, I can suggest a bunch of other sites that are more likely to be your taste, like DU and (Democratic Underground) and DK (DailyKos).
These web sites suit you much better, where you can endleslly go gaga over their fake performance over real issues and facts.
Why can't you leave us alone here?
I seriously want to know why these people hang around here?
Just enjoying your daily dose of trolling?
Thanks to Dr. Zunes & his like, there is someone to refresh the public memory with the lies of politicians. Thanks to his likes, for digging truths that the corporate MSM would have conveniently buried.
The audacity with which politicans lie to the public, even the face of much documented evidence in this modern age, amazes me.
Come on, Zunes is fixated on Clinton to such a point, some feminist progressive have labeled him sexist.
While his argument in the above OpEd seems reasoned, it is dependent on
a series of mixed-conditional syllogism with the second premise confirming the first.
But, because he also confirms our idealogy, Zunes gets a pass on his logic/.
What I'd really want this man to do is honestly look at Barack Obama. He won't do it.
He refuses to use "bald face liar" in the same paragraph. I actually begin to wonder
if the professor will not go after Obama until Obama is official crowned. Until that
time, Obama is nothing more than a potetial convert who might truly possess the star quality--
But don't hold your breath, or be too cynical?
I really don't know, I'm grasping at straws. I really want to know why a $100 million dollar
campaign backed by Soros/Brzezinski gets light criticism in the progressive intellectual
circuit. Damn it , if I don't have shrapnel. And what the hell was Obama talking about
in regard to Central America? Hello, Major Tom?
later days, sonador!
braithwa842 February 2nd, 2008 5:5
jsc February 2nd, 2008 7:30 pm
The two post above were excellent-thank you.
I see Hillary's faults all being forgiven or overlooked by a majority of women. Women that I know seem to have this fixation about the "glass ceiling" phenomena and I suppose this is some kine of blowback from "the old boys network". I think that is a damn poor reason to elect a woman President. As it was said before, I am not against a woman President but I am against THIS woman being President.
Mr 'thedeed' shows up to demonstrate the limitless stupidity of the Dem Party Loyalist. To the DPL, any criticism of Democrats is "Republican." The DPL is unable to distinguish between criticism from the right, & criticism from the left. All he knows is that his dear Democrats are under attack, so the critic must automatically be "Republican." (As it happens, Stephen Zunes is a bona fide leftist, who supported Kucinich in 2004.)
'thedeed' bleats, "for God's sake, let us change this country before its too late."
- Yes, that would be the kind of "change" that the Democrats' victory in the 2006 midterms has produced. In other words, none whatsoever. (In fact, Pelosi is Bush's most important defender.)
The reason leftists often criticize the Democrats is because the Democrats stink. It's because they're contemptible corrupt weasels, who never stood up even once to oppose the Bush Gang, through all that's happened in the past 7 years.
Zunes, you are such a Republican. All you ever do is attack the Democrats, except for your occasional attempts to burnish your questionable resume. Please, go post on seanhannity.com. Everybody there is interested. If you want more years of Bush, move to Crawford, TX and live with him. But, for God's sake, let us change this country before its too late.
Thank You Professor Zunes, for the details, your clarity.
And Daddy Bush before him told Saddam through Ambassador April Glaspy that Iraq's squabble with Kuwait's plunder of Iraqi oil was strictly a 'local matter.' It seems that 'Evil' Saddam was actually trying to pay off Iraqi's debt from the Iran/Iraq war by pumping oil. Not only had Washington let Kuwait depress oil prices by overpumping and slant drilling but also had Kuwait and Saudi Arabia call in their Iraqi war loans. The First Bush Oil war was a setup. The deadly 'sanctions' on Iraq's civilians, mostly children, under Clinton was a setup. The Second Bush Oil war is another setup. How can my fellow Americans sleep at night knowing that they are responsible for the death of more than one in ten Iraqis? It's mostly women and children and the elderly that we have murdered and maimed. Only the God of Abraham would be pleased. :(
Dmitri: Jews are almost unanimously in support of Israel and Israel is an instigator of these wars. Jews do not get a free pass as long as they support Israel.
I read that Ann Coulter is supporting Hillary over McCain in the upcoming election. Ann says she thinks Hillary is more of a conservative than John.
jsc- ironically it was my wife that pointed out the way to save SS. ironically as I know how easy it would be to get universal healthcare to everyone, but thats another story.
SS should remain as an insurance policy for those that need it. There is no reason anyone making hundreds of thousands of dollars, with equal amounts in securities and investments to receive SS, yet they remain paying into it just as everyone pays into unemployment. so lets say that the only people to receive SS would be people making 100k and less, and that have no finanacial security thru investment.....simple.
rockerbabe: Sorry some folks are rude but think about this: 22 Dem Senators voted against the Iraq War Resolution. Little old me, out here in rural midwest without any internet connection knew Bush was lying. On 9/11 a friend and I talked about these guys high-fiving behind closed doors. Everyone knew about the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 and the Project for a New American Century. If you were in the Senate and didn't know about these things you are a pod creature. There was also the dismissal of Gen Shinseki, Larry Lindsay (Chmn Economic Advisors) and Paul O'Neill, Sec of Treasury.
They made political decisions rather that honest and moral ones.
Re: Obama. Go to www.chicagotribune.com and search for articles about him in 2005. If it's still there, there's an interview question in one of the articles about lying to go to war. Obama excuses it because FDR, Truman and LBJ (jfk?) did it.
liberal with an attitude: The finacial sanity achievement of Clinton was no small feat and he deserves credit for being focused but he had the wind at his back. Tax increases on wealthy people from G "no new taxes" Bush and in 1993, a Republican Congress that wasn't going to let him spend much, a significant increase in one time only capital gains taxes due to the stock market exuberance and most important, he worked real hard to cut military spending. If we do not absolutely slash military spending there will be no money for anything, including Social Security whose "trust fund" is all spent. Where will the money come from when there is no SS surplus due to retiring baby boomers and what happens when its time to tap the "trust fund"? In 2005 I read that would be 2017-2019. Want to bet its sooner now?
Josh February 2nd, 2008 3:57 pm
"Please, Mr. Zunes, you are confusing history with the dominant political narrative..."
hilarious.
I don't trust Hillary Clinton at all. But I have to admit that I was impressed by her performance on Tuesday. And I guess that Obama was worn out - at least I couldn't see any of his highly praised rhetorical skills that night. That entire process of selecting a leader is a breach of every human rights convention - it's tantamount to torture, I think. I am amazed nobody has dropped dead before the elections so far.
But re Iraq, Hillary lies in a very big way. Of course she knew what she knows now. If she didn't, she'd be too dumb to be president. After all, the entire world knew everything she claims to only have learned recently!!
No, what she doesn't say now is: "Folks, I badly wanted to get re-elected in NY state, and I had to get the Jewish votes there, and many of my Jewish voters have been wanting us to attack Iraq for ages because they perceive Saddam as a threat to Israel. This is why I sided with Bush."
That would have been the whole truth.
Apart from that, it is a well-known worldwide malaise of the left (to call it by its proper name) to spend a lot more energy fighting each other about the "one right way" than the real enemy. The right (again using the proper term) wouldn't dream of it, never.
And to call others on the left closet right-wing is as old as there has been a left in the world.
Actually, IMO, none of the two candidates is truly left-wing.
See http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2251196,00.html
you know what. President Dennis Kucinich would not stop war in this world. not on this planet. Dennis opposed war. so do I. Dennis has dropped out of the race. No hope for my dream ticket of Kucinich/Mckinney. Oh well back to reality such as it is here in wonderland.
I know all too well about the Clintons and why they are justifiably bashed. okay, that said, back to my first point that there will never be peace on earth, its biblical man, its been going on since time began, you can't stop it. Okay now that being said,
the way I vote is I pick the candidate that will do the most good for the most amount of people.
right now this country has been void of any domestic policy whatsoever for the past 8 years. No scientific research, no money for education, social programs, economic initiatives, and so on and so forth. The republicans do that shit on purpose, you see they loot and pillage and run up the debt like borrow and spend republicans do, so that when a democrat gets into office they are so overwhelmed with an economy cirlcling the drain that the burden is way too much and failure is likely then the republicans say see when a dem is elected your taxes go up and you pay for the bad decisions made by the government. its been going on as long as I can remember. Nixon blamed everything on LBJ, Reagan on Carter and so on. Whitman did it to the state of NJ and then Florio was left with such enormous debt he looked like a bafoon trying to clean it up, just like what Corzine is up against now. He has a plan it will work, but its not favorable.
Now to tie all of this together, whoever wins for the dems, you can bet there will be sound domestic policy. Say what will about Bill Clinton, but his economic stimulus plan created 22 million jobs, money for scientific research, money for education, and created the largest surplus in history after eliminating the largest deficit in history.
Those are stone cold facts. He did alot of damage with shit like NAFTA, so no need to rehash that crap, because he did alot of good for alot of people. Its bona fide fact whether you like it or not. I am living proof, my tax situation improved, my job situation improved, my econmic status improved, and I know alot of people in the educational and scientific communities that benefitted as they say like never before, i know folks that run a private company that receive federal grant money that go over to africa to build farming irrigation and wells for community potable water, and they loved Bill Clinton because of sound domestic policy. So President Obama and Vp Clinton may be owned by corporations, that promote the Iraq occupation, but I promise you, they will deliver some good domestic policy as every Democrat that I have ever known has.
Now, what will you get from the other side of the aisle?, no matter who it is you will get the same neglect of this countries infrastructure, and the same voidness of domestic policy and this country will suffer an economic depression. They waited until the election became closer to drop the news of an imminent recession, but if you look at the fed for the last 7 years the economic growth has recessed since Bush took office, ie we have been in a recession for the past 7 years.
Subject: remembering 1998 bombing on Iraq by Clinton
Hillary claimed that 1998 bombing of Iraq was because Iraq
threw out the weapons inspectors.
(Not to be confused with 2003).
I found xlnt compilation at wikipedia on this, first a couple highlights, then a link to the article.
UNSCOM weapons inspectors were not expelled from the country by Iraq as has often been reported (and as George W. Bush alleged in his 2002 "axis of evil" speech). Rather, according to Richard Butler himself, it was
U.S. Ambassador Peter Burleigh, acting on instructions from Washington, who suggested Butler pull his team from Iraq in order to protect them from the forthcoming U.S. and British airstrikes.[3]
The four-day bombing campaign occurred at the same time the U.S. House of Representatives was conducting the impeachment hearing of President Clinton. Clinton was impeached on December 19, the last day of the bombing campaign. A few months earlier, similar criticism was leveled during Operation Infinite Reach, wherein missile strikes were ordered against suspected terrorist bases in Sudan and Afghanistan, on August 20. The missile strikes began three days after Clinton was called to testify before a grand jury during the Lewinsky scandal and his subsequent nationally televised address later that evening in which Clinton admitted having an inappropriate relationship.
Remember, this was when Clinton bombed the factory in Sudan that NEVER made bio weapons, it made mostly malaria medicine, and it was owned by a man in England who would have granted permission to inspect if ever asked. Clinton's CIA agent merely took a sample of dirt outside the plant, and found that it contained a precursor chemical, it was
later shown that it could well have been Monsanto roundup.
Remember, this was when HR Clinton was bemoaning the "vast right wing conspiracy" that had falsely accused her husband of having sex with Monica L.
So it is small wonder to me that Hillary misremembers 1997-8, including the bombing of Iraq.
There is a lot more in the article, including the Blair people who refused to lie about it and were fired for disloyalty, and including Kissinger who said we should not have stopped after 4 days!
One last note: Senator Clinton failed to read the 2002 NIE on Iraq, though it was available for her. She has claimed that she was briefed on it, but never been willing to explain who briefed her. Some have claimed that no one on her staff had the requisite security clearance to read the NIE, but she could have read it herself, and she certainly could have asked Bill to read it for/with her.
"The question of whether Clinton took the time to read the N.I.E. report is critically important. Indeed, one of Clinton's Democratic colleagues, Bob Graham, the Florida senator who was then the chairman of the intelligence committee, said he voted against the resolution on the war, in part, because he had read the complete N.I.E. report. Graham said he found that it did not persuade him that Iraq possessed W.M.D."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/29/magazine/03Hillary-t.html?pagewanted=p...
In my view, this was an utter failure by Senator Clinton to do her homework on the most important matter before the US Senate since the Tonkin Gulf resolution (when LBJ lied his way to war in Vietnam). This failure undercuts her claim to wisdom and experience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Desert_Fox
Reading the first paragraph, one might think Saddam a benign dictator who had provoked the USA.
I'm not saying zune is wrong;or that the Clintons were right here, but Saddam was a truly evil, evil person.
This imprssion given by articles like this that Saddam was not evil , something commonly seen in left media,is not winning any friends
Tom Joad,
Calling me "numbnuts" does not make your point.
Please name all those "conservatives" that are fighting for Universal single payer health care.
Modus ponens
@Rockerbabe1 February 2nd, 2008 3:08 pm
"The only mistake Hillary made was to believe what the President told her and that Dubya would not lie about such a national matter involving the miliary. She choose to believe what he said and the intel presented to her -as did so many others on both sides of the political isle and I might ad, so many civilians as Dubya made his appeal on TV."
Rockerbabe, you may well have fallen for Bush's lies. But that just wasnt possible for the informed. And willful ignorance is not true ignorance. Those who did any research at all could not possibly have believed that Iraq was a threat to the USA. It is possible, being a politician, to take the lies at face value, pretend that you believed it and use that as an excuse for your actions. Yes, politicians and journalists can claim to believe all sorts of things if they think it good for their career.
The inspectors declared in 1993 that they had destroyed all the weapons that Saddam had. What was unaccounted for, they believed he had used on Iran. Every story about where the location of the WMD were acted upon by the inspectors and all were shown to be false. The stories about the Aluminium tubes and the Niger uranium were exposed as lies. The only "evidence" not exposed as lies was the "secret" evidence "too sensitive" for us to know the details about.
Further, the idea that Saddam, even armed with all the WMD that we SOLD him, could have done anything with it to the USA is totally far fetched. And even then we have enough WMD to obliterate the entire country, should he, in our wild fantasies, have dared.
I remember when people in our electorate, in Toowoomba Australia, approached our local politician, Ian McFarlane regarding this issue. He argued his patch for a little. When it was clear he could not defend the war when the facts were brought to bear, he gave up and said "John Howard is my leader, and I shall follow where he ever he leads.", and we were asked to leave. He clung to his ignorance, for without it, his career would have been in jeopardy. That is called willful ignorance. It is only a distant cousin to true ignorance.
Hillary Clinton is not an idiot. She could not possibly have been that uninformed, unless, seeing the tide of propaganda at the time, she deliberately chose to remain uninformed. Quite possibly because to go around spouting the truth, in late 2002 or early 2003 would have had you branded as a traitor. But also quite probably because she knew that AIPAC would have seen to it that campaign donors would have given their money to someone else.
Hillary is just like Bill. Republican lite. nuff said.
"I would vote for anyone, regardless of label, if they represented and carried out what is in my best interest as a member of the working class.Universal single payer health care comes to mind."
Brillant statement numbnuts. Let's all go out and vote for all those conservatives that are pushing for Universal single payer health care.
Oh, we get so confused and caught up in labels. Liberal indeed.
I would vote for anyone, regardless of label, if they represented and carried out what is in my best interest as a member of the working class.
Universal single payer health care comes to mind. How about providing education for all and taking the money to pay for it from the military budget. How about providing everyone the basic necessities of life, and taking the money from the military budget. Look we can all make a list, but the main point I am trying to make is, whose interest are any of these candidates fighting for. They can't fight for both the ruling class, and the working class. That would be a conflict of interest.
Unless you are a member of the ruling class it appears you don't have a dog in the fight.
We are not all in this together. When the candidates talk about protecting our national interests, they mean protecting Exxon Mobil's right to make maximum profit, not providing the working class with universal single payer health care.
You can call someone a tree, or they can call themselves a tree, but that does not make them a tree.
Hillary voted to give Bush the authority to use force for one reason only. Political expediance. Period. She knew Bush was going to war and she thought the Iraq war would be a cakewalk and that anyone who voted against it would be committing political suicide. Turns out she was wrong.
Guess what "liberal with an attitude" many of us here don't a corporatist war monger whether they have a D or R in front of the name of their politcal party. Here is my opinion of Hilary McCaniac:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdeye/2232148288/
Speak us some words of hope, Barack Obama! A choice between Hillary Clinton and John "Stay in Iraq for a Hundred Years" McCain would be depressing (and dangerous) beyond words.
"No liberal" indeed. Truth has never mattered much to the Clinton's, or any "successful" politician, for that matter. If Obama were to win and become an utter disappointment, he would only become what I already expect of Clinton. Just please don't vote for an avowed big business, militaristic war-hawk, if you're not, just because you think she's more "electable."
Iraqi resistance to inspections during the Clinton era had to do with preserving Iraqi sovereignty and standing up to petro/anglo/zionist aggression, not to hide WMDs. Thanks to Zunes and others for elevating the truth above Empress Hillary's Royal Lies.
Wasn't it interesting that Obama said nothing about this?
An actual progressive would have pointed this error out. One who is actually opposed to U.S. empire, militarism and war as a foreign policy option.
But since the faux progressive Obama opposes none of this, offering merely a technical critique of U.S. behavior, he was silent.
It is amazing how Mrs. Clinton is ahead in this democratic primary given that she is still a true believer in the Bush vision of the world and has lied about her support of the Iraq war. There must be many democrats who are secretly for the war or it just doesn't add up.
I don't trust Hillary Clinton at all. But I have to admit that I was impressed by her performance on Tuesday. And I guess that Obama was worn out - at least I couldn't see any of his highly praised rhetorical skills that night. That entire process of selecting a leader is in breach of every human rights convention - it's tantamount to torture, I think. I am amazed nobody has dropped dead before the elections so far.
But re Iraq, Hillary lies in a very big way. Of course she knew what she knows now. If she didn't, she'd be too dumb to be president. After all, the entire world knew all that.
No, what she doesn't say now is: "Folks, I wanted to get re-elected in NY state, I had to get the Jewish voters there, and many of my Jewish voters have been wanting us to attack Iraq because they perceive Saddam as a threat to Israel. This is why I sided with Bush."
That would have been the whole truth.
Apart from that, it is a well-known worldwide malaise of the left (to call it by its proper term) to spend a lot more energy fighting each other about the "one right way" than the real enemy. The right (again using the proper term) wouldn't dream of it, never.
And to call others on the left right-wing is as old as there has been a left in the world.
Actually, IMO, none of the two candidates is truly left-wing.
Hillary is no liberal, so don't shed tears for her if she gets bashed. She's reminding me more and more of a Republican plant.
Thank you, Professor Zunes for another honest and accurate accounting of Hillary Clinton, and her true color.
Clinton has been a Bush/Cheney 'enabler' and voted for the most un-Constitutional legislation in her short career in the U.S. Senate. Clinton and the Republican Crime Family have much in common when it comes to money and power. Just look who she surrounds herself with.
liberal with an attitude, Are you the "pot calling the kettle black? " We know how reactionaries ( conservatives ) think, but when Democrats act ( and vote ) in a similar fashion, what are we to think? Hillary Clinton is not a liberal in the truest sense of the word. How do you address her Bush-supporting record? And proud that her husband ( whom I voted for tw