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Hillary Clinton Again Lies about Iraq
In Thursday night's Democratic presidential debate, Hillary Clinton lied again about Iraq.
At the forum in Los Angeles, Hillary Clinton declared, "We bombed them for days in 1998 because Saddam Hussein threw out inspectors."
That statement was totally false. The bombing campaign had been planned for months and the inspectors were not thrown out. They were ordered out by President Bill Clinton in anticipation of the four-day U.S.-led bombing campaign.
The chronology, which is on the public record, is as follows:
In early 1998, the Clinton Administration began to raise concerns about Iraq's refusal to allow inspectors of the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) to visit so-called "presidential sites," a liberally-defined series of buildings and grounds across the country that Iraq claimed were used by government officials. Even though subsequent evidence has revealed that the Iraqis had nothing to hide, since all proscribed weapons and weapons material had long since been eliminated, Saddam Hussein held firm. Given that a number of prominent American political leaders from both parties had called openly for assassinating him, however, the Iraqi leader's reluctance to allow Americans into presidential palaces may have been a result of concerns that such access would make him and other top officials personally vulnerable. Furthermore, the Iraqis had complained that, despite a stated policy of avoiding staffing UNSCOM with experts from "intelligence providing states," there was a disproportionate number of Americans involved in the inspections, who would deliberately prolong the process and could potentially provide information to the U.S. military. The Iraqi dictator also reportedly had an obsessive compulsive disorder which led him to order that his palaces be kept meticulously clean and made him particularly reluctant to allow large groups of foreigners to move about his homes.
The Clinton administration's insistence upon raising this issue at that time was rather suspect: Such Iraqi restrictions on these "presidential sites" had existed since the beginning of the sanctions regime nearly seven years earlier without any concerns publically expressed by United Nations officials. Yet suddenly, in January 1998, the Clinton administration decided that it had become an intolerable violation of UN Security Council resolution 687, which called upon Iraq to verify its disarmament, and warned Iraq that the United States - despite the lack of Security Council approval as required - would engage in a sustained bombing campaign against their country if the Iraqis did not allow these inspections of presidential palaces to go ahead. By February, a large-scale U.S. military assault seemed likely. However, United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan was able to broker a deal late that month that opened the presidential palaces to UN inspectors, but with an additional diplomatic presence in recognition of the sites' special status.
The disappointment by Clinton administration officials that the bombing campaign would not be able to go ahead as planned was palpable. Clinton did not give up on its search for an excuse to attack Iraq, however.
At the end of October, Iraq imposed new restrictions on UNSCOM as a result of revelations that the United States was indeed illegally using UNSCOM as a vehicle for spying on the Iraqi government. On November 10, in response to pressure from President Clinton, UNSCOM chairman Richard Butler announced his decision to pull UNSCOM out of Iraq without the required authorization from the Security Council. Iraq then reversed itself and agreed to allow the inspectors to resume their activities. The United States, however, was eager to launch military action, particularly by mid-December in order to take advantage of overlapping American military units on rotation in the Persian Gulf, which made it a particularly auspicious time for major air strikes.
According to former chief weapons inspector Scott Ritter, Clinton's National Security Advisor Sandy Berger - now a major advisor for Senator Clinton - met with Butler on November 30, when the UNSCOM director was instructed to provoke Iraq into breaking its agreement to fully cooperate with UNSCOM. Without consulting the UN Security Council as required, Butler announced to the Iraqis that he was nullifying previously agreed-upon modalities dealing with sensitive sites that limited the number of UNSCOM inspectors. He chose the Baath Party headquarters in Baghdad as the site to demand unfettered access, a very unlikely place to store weapons of mass destruction but one very likely to provoke a negative reaction. The Iraqis refused to allow the large group into their party headquarters, but did allow them unrestricted access to a series of sensitive military installations.
At that point, Butler and the Clinton Administration unilaterally ordered UN inspectors out of Iraq in order to remove them from the risk of being harmed by the massive U.S. air and missile strikes that were forthcoming. Back in New York, American officials then helped Butler draft a report blaming Iraq exclusively for the impasse in a late night session at the U.S. Mission across from the United Nations headquarters. As the UN Security Council was meeting in an emergency special session on how to implement a unified response to Iraq's non-cooperation, the United States - with support from Great Britain - launched an unauthorized four-day series of sustained air strikes against Iraq in what became known as Operation Desert Fox. In response, Iraq forbade UNSCOM from returning.
Surely Senator Clinton knew all this, since she has emphasized as evidence of her supposed experience in foreign affairs her close consultation with her husband and his national security advisors during these crises. Her claims during the debate, then, that the bombing took place because Saddam Hussein "threw out inspectors" is a boldface lie to rationalize for a four-day bombing campaign that killed hundreds of people, many of whom were innocent civilians, and which gave Saddam Hussein an excuse to refuse to allow inspectors to return to Iraq for the next four years. A number of strategic analysts (including me) publically warned prior to the December 1998 attacks that launching such massive air strikes would result in an end to the UN inspections and would result in reducing Iraqi compliance from 95% to 0%. President Clinton clearly wanted the inspections regime to end, however, presumably because - as Senator Clinton has acknowledged - the administration had shifted U.S. policy from containment of Iraq to regime change. Indeed, the resulting absence of inspectors became the principal rationale for President George W. Bush, Senator Clinton and others to support an invasion of Iraq four years later.
Indeed, in Thursday night's debate, Senator Clinton claims that she voted to authorize war against Iraq in October 2002 because "we needed to put inspectors in." However, this was also a lie, since Saddam Hussein had by that time already agreed for a return of the weapons inspectors. Furthermore, Senator Clinton voted against the substitute Levin amendment, which would have also granted President Bush authority to use force, but only if Iraq defied subsequent UN demands regarding the inspections process. Instead, Senator Clinton voted for the Republican-sponsored resolution to give President Bush the authority to invade Iraq at the time and circumstances of his own choosing regardless of whether inspectors returned. Indeed, unfettered large-scale weapons inspections had been going on in Iraq for nearly four months at the time the Bush administration launched the March 2003 invasion that Senator Clinton had voted to authorize.
This is part of a longstanding pattern of Senator Hillary Clinton misleading the American public about Iraq in order to justify her militaristic policies. It is important to remember that, back in October 2002, despite widespread and public skepticism expressed by arms control experts over the Bush administration's claims that Iraq had somehow re-armed itself, Senator Clinton was insisting that Iraq's possession of biological and chemical weapons was "not in doubt" and was "undisputed." She also claimed, despite the reports of the International Atomic Energy Agency that Iraq's nuclear program had been completely eliminated, that Iraq was "trying to develop nuclear weapons."
This inevitably raises concerns that if Hillary Clinton is elected president, she will have no qualms about lying once again to the American people in order to justify going to war.




83 Comments so far
Show AllSo both GWBush and Clinton ordered the inspectors out of Iraq in order to bomb. It seems both Bush and Clintons are hell bent on unnecessary war.
Hillary also stated that the war on Iraq was justified because Saddam would want to compete with bin Laden. The truth is Saddam ran a secular government and was NOT into Islamic extremism - terrorism.
Hillary also lied when she said she believed Bush (and HIS lies) before Iraq was attacked. I can see why the Republicans want her in the White House. She's one of them --- and she's lost my vote.
Thanks for reminding the amneiac public of the correct sequence of events.
All one needs to know about Hillary Clinton's candidacy is that she has chosen as her advisors the murderous, in some cases illegal, policies of her husband's regime. Madeline Albright is responsible for the deaths of 400,000 Iraqis (mostly, as usual, women, children and the infirm and elderly); Richard Holbrook is responsible for supplying arms to Indoneisa under Suharto so that the East Timoorese had no chance against the repressive, military actions of the Indonesia government. Sandy Burger is mentioned in Zunes' piece above, and there are several other would-be war criminals that Hillary has dusted off from her husbands skeletons.
so it's not just her vote about the war, the Military commisions Act or Kyl-Lieberman, it's a 16 year legacy of repression and spin that Hillary is building upon!
Don't be fooled by the tear-jerks, she is a ruthless, opportunistic corporateer, and that is really how she got this far. Her closets are full of skeletons and why should any of us believe that the country should be put through the scandalous clinton crime family after the Bush crime family leaves office, if they do!
Take your carpet bag up to NY and stay there; Arksansas still harbors too may ghosts.
Polititions seem to lie just to keep in practice and of course they also have the belief that repeating the lie makes it true. There are lots of reasons to not vote for Hillary, this is just one more disappointing bit of knowledge. Would there was a penalty for those in public service who distribute dis-information, but our system of government just seems to continue to reward them.
Veteran '66-68
"Hillary Clinton Again Lies..."
Remember the old song by Little Richard?
"The Girl Can't Help It"
The only mistake Hillary made was to believe what the President told her and that Dubya would not lie about such a national matter involving the miliary. She choose to believe what he said and the intel presented to her -as did so many others on both sides of the political isle and I might ad, so many civilians as Dubya made his appeal on TV. GET OVER IT! It is water under the bridge and will be dealt with after the new President takes office in January 2009. We have to clean up our mess before we can leave; so take some Tylenol, put your never been in in the military feet up and chill out.
Lies,Lies,lies...
THAT"S WHAT THEY DO !!!
Politicians will tell you anything...
"This inevitably raises concerns that if Hillary Clinton is elected president, she will have no qualms about lying once again to the American people in order to justify going to war."
The 'trust' factor.
Hillary? PASS
you know what i find to be a bit queer? this is Common Dreams, a progressive (liberal) website, and who gets bashed day after day, Liberals. Try going to a conservative website and guess who is getting bashed, yup liberals. man, if the aliens landed tomorrow and tried to understand they'd leave really fucking confused. wouldnt you be?
you fucking idiots better get it together and try a little solidarity, or its going to be President Huckabee come this time next year.
IMO, those who assert that critics are playing fast and loose with the truth by asserting that Senator Clinton plays fast and loose with the truth are playing fast and loose with the truth.
Please, Mr. Zunes, you are confusing history with the dominant political narrative (the myth taught in school and how Americans understand the actions of their own government). The Narrative (we are on a just crusade against an evil dictator, although sometimes we make mistakes) should not be compromised or subverted by your facts. History passes, invasions come and go, but the Narrative remains and we have to pass it on for the next generation.
Our political leaders and pundits must be particularly scrupulous in having a firm grasp of the Narrative because otherwise they could destroy the governing institutions with hasty or sweeping reforms. They are generally, however, a carefully selected bunch who rise to the occasion and accept the required orthodoxies, however idealistic they appear to start out at first.
Come on folks . . . . The Dems in congress when Bush was pushing for the war all thought that it would be over quick and didn't want to be on the outside looking in. They figured that the oil would flow and America would be the HERO. Even they didn't know how badly "W" would screw this up. Or was in Rumsfield and Cheney . . . . Anyway they didn't have the backbone to "Just Say No!" . . . . The ones that did say NO are still saying it today . . . All 2 of them . . . . Or what ever the count was at the time.
You are so right on Little Brother . . . . anyone that didn't originally say NO are now playing Fast and Loose With The Truth . . . Like all good politicians do . . .
If the people of this country are ever willing to cease to support the Imperial Road to Pax Americana, and actually allow the UN to function as originally intended: i.e., as the clearing house of world interaction, then we may have to actually give up some of our favorite political perogatives, at least temporarily. I have been radical progressive since the sixties but will vote for Ron Paul or Huckabee or Nader or Mckinney a million times before voting for the architects of our Middle Eastern Black Hole. Under Hillarious, Obomba , Ram-Knee or McRaiseCain, the USA will squander ON WAR every billion it can beg borrow or steal, because 95%of the people in this goddess-forsaken country are willing to kill and maim and translocate MIllions of brown skins, simply to stave off the day when gasoline hits ten dollarsa gallon! Pity the poor "amerrikans", how the heck will they get to work? So we have the Carter Doctrine, which gives the US the "right" to organize the oil fields of the world in its benighted image...Sit back and enjoy the show, folks.
Thank you, Professor Zunes for another honest and accurate accounting of Hillary Clinton, and her true color.
Clinton has been a Bush/Cheney 'enabler' and voted for the most un-Constitutional legislation in her short career in the U.S. Senate. Clinton and the Republican Crime Family have much in common when it comes to money and power. Just look who she surrounds herself with.
liberal with an attitude, Are you the "pot calling the kettle black? " We know how reactionaries ( conservatives ) think, but when Democrats act ( and vote ) in a similar fashion, what are we to think? Hillary Clinton is not a liberal in the truest sense of the word. How do you address her Bush-supporting record? And proud that her husband ( whom I voted for twice ) bombed the hell out Iraq. We all don't have selective memories, do we?
Hillary is no liberal, so don't shed tears for her if she gets bashed. She's reminding me more and more of a Republican plant.
I don't trust Hillary Clinton at all. But I have to admit that I was impressed by her performance on Tuesday. And I guess that Obama was worn out - at least I couldn't see any of his highly praised rhetorical skills that night. That entire process of selecting a leader is in breach of every human rights convention - it's tantamount to torture, I think. I am amazed nobody has dropped dead before the elections so far.
But re Iraq, Hillary lies in a very big way. Of course she knew what she knows now. If she didn't, she'd be too dumb to be president. After all, the entire world knew all that.
No, what she doesn't say now is: "Folks, I wanted to get re-elected in NY state, I had to get the Jewish voters there, and many of my Jewish voters have been wanting us to attack Iraq because they perceive Saddam as a threat to Israel. This is why I sided with Bush."
That would have been the whole truth.
Apart from that, it is a well-known worldwide malaise of the left (to call it by its proper term) to spend a lot more energy fighting each other about the "one right way" than the real enemy. The right (again using the proper term) wouldn't dream of it, never.
And to call others on the left right-wing is as old as there has been a left in the world.
Actually, IMO, none of the two candidates is truly left-wing.
It is amazing how Mrs. Clinton is ahead in this democratic primary given that she is still a true believer in the Bush vision of the world and has lied about her support of the Iraq war. There must be many democrats who are secretly for the war or it just doesn't add up.
Wasn't it interesting that Obama said nothing about this?
An actual progressive would have pointed this error out. One who is actually opposed to U.S. empire, militarism and war as a foreign policy option.
But since the faux progressive Obama opposes none of this, offering merely a technical critique of U.S. behavior, he was silent.
Iraqi resistance to inspections during the Clinton era had to do with preserving Iraqi sovereignty and standing up to petro/anglo/zionist aggression, not to hide WMDs. Thanks to Zunes and others for elevating the truth above Empress Hillary's Royal Lies.
"No liberal" indeed. Truth has never mattered much to the Clinton's, or any "successful" politician, for that matter. If Obama were to win and become an utter disappointment, he would only become what I already expect of Clinton. Just please don't vote for an avowed big business, militaristic war-hawk, if you're not, just because you think she's more "electable."
Speak us some words of hope, Barack Obama! A choice between Hillary Clinton and John "Stay in Iraq for a Hundred Years" McCain would be depressing (and dangerous) beyond words.
Guess what "liberal with an attitude" many of us here don't a corporatist war monger whether they have a D or R in front of the name of their politcal party. Here is my opinion of Hilary McCaniac:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdeye/2232148288/
Hillary voted to give Bush the authority to use force for one reason only. Political expediance. Period. She knew Bush was going to war and she thought the Iraq war would be a cakewalk and that anyone who voted against it would be committing political suicide. Turns out she was wrong.
Oh, we get so confused and caught up in labels. Liberal indeed.
I would vote for anyone, regardless of label, if they represented and carried out what is in my best interest as a member of the working class.
Universal single payer health care comes to mind. How about providing education for all and taking the money to pay for it from the military budget. How about providing everyone the basic necessities of life, and taking the money from the military budget. Look we can all make a list, but the main point I am trying to make is, whose interest are any of these candidates fighting for. They can't fight for both the ruling class, and the working class. That would be a conflict of interest.
Unless you are a member of the ruling class it appears you don't have a dog in the fight.
We are not all in this together. When the candidates talk about protecting our national interests, they mean protecting Exxon Mobil's right to make maximum profit, not providing the working class with universal single payer health care.
You can call someone a tree, or they can call themselves a tree, but that does not make them a tree.
"I would vote for anyone, regardless of label, if they represented and carried out what is in my best interest as a member of the working class.Universal single payer health care comes to mind."
Brillant statement numbnuts. Let's all go out and vote for all those conservatives that are pushing for Universal single payer health care.
Hillary is just like Bill. Republican lite. nuff said.
@Rockerbabe1 February 2nd, 2008 3:08 pm
"The only mistake Hillary made was to believe what the President told her and that Dubya would not lie about such a national matter involving the miliary. She choose to believe what he said and the intel presented to her -as did so many others on both sides of the political isle and I might ad, so many civilians as Dubya made his appeal on TV."
Rockerbabe, you may well have fallen for Bush's lies. But that just wasnt possible for the informed. And willful ignorance is not true ignorance. Those who did any research at all could not possibly have believed that Iraq was a threat to the USA. It is possible, being a politician, to take the lies at face value, pretend that you believed it and use that as an excuse for your actions. Yes, politicians and journalists can claim to believe all sorts of things if they think it good for their career.
The inspectors declared in 1993 that they had destroyed all the weapons that Saddam had. What was unaccounted for, they believed he had used on Iran. Every story about where the location of the WMD were acted upon by the inspectors and all were shown to be false. The stories about the Aluminium tubes and the Niger uranium were exposed as lies. The only "evidence" not exposed as lies was the "secret" evidence "too sensitive" for us to know the details about.
Further, the idea that Saddam, even armed with all the WMD that we SOLD him, could have done anything with it to the USA is totally far fetched. And even then we have enough WMD to obliterate the entire country, should he, in our wild fantasies, have dared.
I remember when people in our electorate, in Toowoomba Australia, approached our local politician, Ian McFarlane regarding this issue. He argued his patch for a little. When it was clear he could not defend the war when the facts were brought to bear, he gave up and said "John Howard is my leader, and I shall follow where he ever he leads.", and we were asked to leave. He clung to his ignorance, for without it, his career would have been in jeopardy. That is called willful ignorance. It is only a distant cousin to true ignorance.
Hillary Clinton is not an idiot. She could not possibly have been that uninformed, unless, seeing the tide of propaganda at the time, she deliberately chose to remain uninformed. Quite possibly because to go around spouting the truth, in late 2002 or early 2003 would have had you branded as a traitor. But also quite probably because she knew that AIPAC would have seen to it that campaign donors would have given their money to someone else.
Modus ponens
Tom Joad,
Calling me "numbnuts" does not make your point.
Please name all those "conservatives" that are fighting for Universal single payer health care.
Reading the first paragraph, one might think Saddam a benign dictator who had provoked the USA.
I'm not saying zune is wrong;or that the Clintons were right here, but Saddam was a truly evil, evil person.
This imprssion given by articles like this that Saddam was not evil , something commonly seen in left media,is not winning any friends
Subject: remembering 1998 bombing on Iraq by Clinton
Hillary claimed that 1998 bombing of Iraq was because Iraq
threw out the weapons inspectors.
(Not to be confused with 2003).
I found xlnt compilation at wikipedia on this, first a couple highlights, then a link to the article.
UNSCOM weapons inspectors were not expelled from the country by Iraq as has often been reported (and as George W. Bush alleged in his 2002 "axis of evil" speech). Rather, according to Richard Butler himself, it was
U.S. Ambassador Peter Burleigh, acting on instructions from Washington, who suggested Butler pull his team from Iraq in order to protect them from the forthcoming U.S. and British airstrikes.[3]
The four-day bombing campaign occurred at the same time the U.S. House of Representatives was conducting the impeachment hearing of President Clinton. Clinton was impeached on December 19, the last day of the bombing campaign. A few months earlier, similar criticism was leveled during Operation Infinite Reach, wherein missile strikes were ordered against suspected terrorist bases in Sudan and Afghanistan, on August 20. The missile strikes began three days after Clinton was called to testify before a grand jury during the Lewinsky scandal and his subsequent nationally televised address later that evening in which Clinton admitted having an inappropriate relationship.
Remember, this was when Clinton bombed the factory in Sudan that NEVER made bio weapons, it made mostly malaria medicine, and it was owned by a man in England who would have granted permission to inspect if ever asked. Clinton's CIA agent merely took a sample of dirt outside the plant, and found that it contained a precursor chemical, it was
later shown that it could well have been Monsanto roundup.
Remember, this was when HR Clinton was bemoaning the "vast right wing conspiracy" that had falsely accused her husband of having sex with Monica L.
So it is small wonder to me that Hillary misremembers 1997-8, including the bombing of Iraq.
There is a lot more in the article, including the Blair people who refused to lie about it and were fired for disloyalty, and including Kissinger who said we should not have stopped after 4 days!
One last note: Senator Clinton failed to read the 2002 NIE on Iraq, though it was available for her. She has claimed that she was briefed on it, but never been willing to explain who briefed her. Some have claimed that no one on her staff had the requisite security clearance to read the NIE, but she could have read it herself, and she certainly could have asked Bill to read it for/with her.
"The question of whether Clinton took the time to read the N.I.E. report is critically important. Indeed, one of Clinton's Democratic colleagues, Bob Graham, the Florida senator who was then the chairman of the intelligence committee, said he voted against the resolution on the war, in part, because he had read the complete N.I.E. report. Graham said he found that it did not persuade him that Iraq possessed W.M.D."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/29/magazine/03Hillary-t.html?pagewanted=print
In my view, this was an utter failure by Senator Clinton to do her homework on the most important matter before the US Senate since the Tonkin Gulf resolution (when LBJ lied his way to war in Vietnam). This failure undercuts her claim to wisdom and experience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Desert_Fox
you know what. President Dennis Kucinich would not stop war in this world. not on this planet. Dennis opposed war. so do I. Dennis has dropped out of the race. No hope for my dream ticket of Kucinich/Mckinney. Oh well back to reality such as it is here in wonderland.
I know all too well about the Clintons and why they are justifiably bashed. okay, that said, back to my first point that there will never be peace on earth, its biblical man, its been going on since time began, you can't stop it. Okay now that being said,
the way I vote is I pick the candidate that will do the most good for the most amount of people.
right now this country has been void of any domestic policy whatsoever for the past 8 years. No scientific research, no money for education, social programs, economic initiatives, and so on and so forth. The republicans do that shit on purpose, you see they loot and pillage and run up the debt like borrow and spend republicans do, so that when a democrat gets into office they are so overwhelmed with an economy cirlcling the drain that the burden is way too much and failure is likely then the republicans say see when a dem is elected your taxes go up and you pay for the bad decisions made by the government. its been going on as long as I can remember. Nixon blamed everything on LBJ, Reagan on Carter and so on. Whitman did it to the state of NJ and then Florio was left with such enormous debt he looked like a bafoon trying to clean it up, just like what Corzine is up against now. He has a plan it will work, but its not favorable.
Now to tie all of this together, whoever wins for the dems, you can bet there will be sound domestic policy. Say what will about Bill Clinton, but his economic stimulus plan created 22 million jobs, money for scientific research, money for education, and created the largest surplus in history after eliminating the largest deficit in history.
Those are stone cold facts. He did alot of damage with shit like NAFTA, so no need to rehash that crap, because he did alot of good for alot of people. Its bona fide fact whether you like it or not. I am living proof, my tax situation improved, my job situation improved, my econmic status improved, and I know alot of people in the educational and scientific communities that benefitted as they say like never before, i know folks that run a private company that receive federal grant money that go over to africa to build farming irrigation and wells for community potable water, and they loved Bill Clinton because of sound domestic policy. So President Obama and Vp Clinton may be owned by corporations, that promote the Iraq occupation, but I promise you, they will deliver some good domestic policy as every Democrat that I have ever known has.
Now, what will you get from the other side of the aisle?, no matter who it is you will get the same neglect of this countries infrastructure, and the same voidness of domestic policy and this country will suffer an economic depression. They waited until the election became closer to drop the news of an imminent recession, but if you look at the fed for the last 7 years the economic growth has recessed since Bush took office, ie we have been in a recession for the past 7 years.
I don't trust Hillary Clinton at all. But I have to admit that I was impressed by her performance on Tuesday. And I guess that Obama was worn out - at least I couldn't see any of his highly praised rhetorical skills that night. That entire process of selecting a leader is a breach of every human rights convention - it's tantamount to torture, I think. I am amazed nobody has dropped dead before the elections so far.
But re Iraq, Hillary lies in a very big way. Of course she knew what she knows now. If she didn't, she'd be too dumb to be president. After all, the entire world knew everything she claims to only have learned recently!!
No, what she doesn't say now is: "Folks, I badly wanted to get re-elected in NY state, and I had to get the Jewish votes there, and many of my Jewish voters have been wanting us to attack Iraq for ages because they perceive Saddam as a threat to Israel. This is why I sided with Bush."
That would have been the whole truth.
Apart from that, it is a well-known worldwide malaise of the left (to call it by its proper name) to spend a lot more energy fighting each other about the "one right way" than the real enemy. The right (again using the proper term) wouldn't dream of it, never.
And to call others on the left closet right-wing is as old as there has been a left in the world.
Actually, IMO, none of the two candidates is truly left-wing.
See http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2251196,00.html
Josh February 2nd, 2008 3:57 pm
"Please, Mr. Zunes, you are confusing history with the dominant political narrative..."
hilarious.
liberal with an attitude: The finacial sanity achievement of Clinton was no small feat and he deserves credit for being focused but he had the wind at his back. Tax increases on wealthy people from G "no new taxes" Bush and in 1993, a Republican Congress that wasn't going to let him spend much, a significant increase in one time only capital gains taxes due to the stock market exuberance and most important, he worked real hard to cut military spending. If we do not absolutely slash military spending there will be no money for anything, including Social Security whose "trust fund" is all spent. Where will the money come from when there is no SS surplus due to retiring baby boomers and what happens when its time to tap the "trust fund"? In 2005 I read that would be 2017-2019. Want to bet its sooner now?
rockerbabe: Sorry some folks are rude but think about this: 22 Dem Senators voted against the Iraq War Resolution. Little old me, out here in rural midwest without any internet connection knew Bush was lying. On 9/11 a friend and I talked about these guys high-fiving behind closed doors. Everyone knew about the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 and the Project for a New American Century. If you were in the Senate and didn't know about these things you are a pod creature. There was also the dismissal of Gen Shinseki, Larry Lindsay (Chmn Economic Advisors) and Paul O'Neill, Sec of Treasury.
They made political decisions rather that honest and moral ones.
Re: Obama. Go to www.chicagotribune.com and search for articles about him in 2005. If it's still there, there's an interview question in one of the articles about lying to go to war. Obama excuses it because FDR, Truman and LBJ (jfk?) did it.
jsc- ironically it was my wife that pointed out the way to save SS. ironically as I know how easy it would be to get universal healthcare to everyone, but thats another story.
SS should remain as an insurance policy for those that need it. There is no reason anyone making hundreds of thousands of dollars, with equal amounts in securities and investments to receive SS, yet they remain paying into it just as everyone pays into unemployment. so lets say that the only people to receive SS would be people making 100k and less, and that have no finanacial security thru investment.....simple.
I read that Ann Coulter is supporting Hillary over McCain in the upcoming election. Ann says she thinks Hillary is more of a conservative than John.
Dmitri: Jews are almost unanimously in support of Israel and Israel is an instigator of these wars. Jews do not get a free pass as long as they support Israel.
And Daddy Bush before him told Saddam through Ambassador April Glaspy that Iraq's squabble with Kuwait's plunder of Iraqi oil was strictly a 'local matter.' It seems that 'Evil' Saddam was actually trying to pay off Iraqi's debt from the Iran/Iraq war by pumping oil. Not only had Washington let Kuwait depress oil prices by overpumping and slant drilling but also had Kuwait and Saudi Arabia call in their Iraqi war loans. The First Bush Oil war was a setup. The deadly 'sanctions' on Iraq's civilians, mostly children, under Clinton was a setup. The Second Bush Oil war is another setup. How can my fellow Americans sleep at night knowing that they are responsible for the death of more than one in ten Iraqis? It's mostly women and children and the elderly that we have murdered and maimed. Only the God of Abraham would be pleased. :(
Thank You Professor Zunes, for the details, your clarity.
Zunes, you are such a Republican. All you ever do is attack the Democrats, except for your occasional attempts to burnish your questionable resume. Please, go post on seanhannity.com. Everybody there is interested. If you want more years of Bush, move to Crawford, TX and live with him. But, for God's sake, let us change this country before its too late.
braithwa842 February 2nd, 2008 5:5
jsc February 2nd, 2008 7:30 pm
The two post above were excellent-thank you.
I see Hillary's faults all being forgiven or overlooked by a majority of women. Women that I know seem to have this fixation about the "glass ceiling" phenomena and I suppose this is some kine of blowback from "the old boys network". I think that is a damn poor reason to elect a woman President. As it was said before, I am not against a woman President but I am against THIS woman being President.
Come on, Zunes is fixated on Clinton to such a point, some feminist progressive have labeled him sexist.
While his argument in the above OpEd seems reasoned, it is dependent on
a series of mixed-conditional syllogism with the second premise confirming the first.
But, because he also confirms our idealogy, Zunes gets a pass on his logic/.
What I'd really want this man to do is honestly look at Barack Obama. He won't do it.
He refuses to use "bald face liar" in the same paragraph. I actually begin to wonder
if the professor will not go after Obama until Obama is official crowned. Until that
time, Obama is nothing more than a potetial convert who might truly possess the star quality--
But don't hold your breath, or be too cynical?
I really don't know, I'm grasping at straws. I really want to know why a $100 million dollar
campaign backed by Soros/Brzezinski gets light criticism in the progressive intellectual
circuit. Damn it , if I don't have shrapnel. And what the hell was Obama talking about
in regard to Central America? Hello, Major Tom?
later days, sonador!
Thanks to Dr. Zunes & his like, there is someone to refresh the public memory with the lies of politicians. Thanks to his likes, for digging truths that the corporate MSM would have conveniently buried.
The audacity with which politicans lie to the public, even the face of much documented evidence in this modern age, amazes me.
To those of mindless Dem Party followers, I can suggest a bunch of other sites that are more likely to be your taste, like DU and (Democratic Underground) and DK (DailyKos).
These web sites suit you much better, where you can endleslly go gaga over their fake performance over real issues and facts.
Why can't you leave us alone here?
I seriously want to know why these people hang around here?
Just enjoying your daily dose of trolling?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me continuously, I'm a Hillary supporter.
The arguments as to whether Hillary will ever be truthful are in themselves untruthful. Hillary's highest calling is to me a politician, regardless of truth or principles.
Why you don't have to support Hillary, in her own words.
"If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from." ~ Hillary Clinton February 2007
The problem with the democrats - http://www.wordsareimportant.com/democraticparty.htm
(slightly humorous if it wasn't so sad)
I don't know about the 1998 events, but regarding the run-up to the Bush invasion, which is what she was asked about, she was totally accurate and did not claim the inspectors were thrown out by Saddam. She referred to letting the inspectors finish their work (they were still there) instead of Bush launching a pre-emptive war.
THE TRANSCRIPT:
Clinton: "And unfortunately, I and others who warned at the time, who said let the inspectors finish their work, you know, do not wage a preemptive war, use diplomacy, were just talking to a brick wall."
There does seem to have been some confusion regarding 1998 versus 2002/2003 in the discussion, partly due to her own lack of clarity about the two time periods.
Whatever the confusion, Hillary Clinton still basically lied through her teeth about Iraq. Bill also lied again when he said he was against the war from the start. What bull. Bill had spent the 1990s bombing Iraq continuously and starving its people under a widely condemned sanctions regime, leaving of course Bush to finish the job.
And the Dem loyalists here who bash bona fide progressives as Republicans I guess see politics as a zero sum game. You are either for us or against us. Typical.
Liberal with an attitude said "lets say that the only people to receive SS would be people making 100k and less" The only reason that Social Security has survived this long is because it is NOT a means-based program. As long as it "belongs" to everyone equally, then everyone is motivated to protect it. As soon as it becomes a program for only the poor or relatively poor, then it will be dismantled.
So, on one hand, LWAA's suggestion is a reasonable one, and has been floated many times. But it is reasonable in a political vacuum because if the political realities are taken into account, it becomes apparent that this reasonable measure would be the kiss of death to the program.
There is another way to save it, since everyone is entitled to Social Security payments, everyone should pay Social Security tax on all of their wage income. Remove the salary cap, and suddenly there is a whole lot more money. Since doing that would only affect the higher income brackets, it hasn't happened, and is rarely even mentioned. Keeping Social Security available to all, is the best way to ensure that it continues. Were it turned into a means-tested program, the wealthy powers that be would soon cut it and then eliminate it.
And did Obama point that out? Or does he stick to the official narrative too? Those people who hate war (that's all war, including ones against Iran and Pakistan) need a candidate who will speak these truths. Assuming Obama is the one simply involves buckets of self deceit.