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TechnoratiVANCOUVER, Canada - A video of a Polish man dying while being restrained with a taser by Canadian policemen sparked a diplomatic protest and controversy on Thursday over the use of stun guns.
Canada's public safety minister ordered a review of Taser stun guns one day after the release of a tourist's video of the death of Robert Dziekanski.
The 40-year-old immigrant died on October 14 about 10 hours after he arrived at western Canada's biggest airport here.
Dziekanski, who had traveled to Canada to live with his mother, died after a bizarre series of events that culminated in police approaching him and, in less than one minute, zapping him repeatedly with a Taser stun gun.
"I was quite shocked," Piotr Ogrodzinski, the Polish ambassador to Canada, told AFP after viewing the video. "Perhaps (the) police officers' reaction was not suitable to the circumstances."
Ogrodzinski said he formally requested details from Canada of the investigation into Dziekanski's death, and also met with the national police complaints commissioner.
The video was taken by Paul Pritchard, a Canadian traveler at the scene. It was not released for one month because police held onto it until Pritchard filed a court action to have it returned.
The video shows Dziekanski, appearing distraught and frightened, moving around furniture in the airport and at one point throwing a computer off a desk onto the ground.
He is watched by security guards who stand back and can be heard saying, "he's speaking Russian."
Then four officers from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), Canada's national police force, enter the frame. They walk toward Dziekanski and surround him. He turns away from them, raising his hands with his back to them.
In one hand he holds what looks like a stapler.
The police close in on Dziekanski and stun him repeatedly with a Taser device. Dziekanski screams and writhes on the floor, and the policemen pile on top of him and pin him down. Within minutes he falls still.
RCMP spokesman Corporal Dale Carr said an investigation by a homicide team will take another 30 to 45 days.
He urged the public to withhold their judgment of what they see on the video until the police can explain their conduct while testifying under oath at a coroner's inquest.
"The inquest will be the venue in which the contents of the video and the actions of police will be scrutinized," said Carr in a statement.
A preliminary coroner's report earlier showed there were no drugs or alcohol in Dziekanski's body, and that the cause of death was uncertain.
Thursday, shortly after calls by the opposition parties for a review of the stun weapons, Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day told the House of Commons he had ordered "a review related to the use of Tasers."
In British Columbia province, others demanded that a special prosecutor be appointed to examine the police actions.
Meanwhile, thousands of people across Canada phoned radio talk shows or posted comments on media websites, most expressing anger.
"I am so ashamed as a Canadian," wrote Joey Tavares from Toronto on the daily Globe and Mail's site, in one typical post. "I feel so sorry for the Dziekanski family. I cannot believe that this happened."
Dziekanski had traveled from Pieszyce, Poland, to Canada to live with his mother, said a family lawyer, who noted Dziekanski spoke only Polish, and had never before wandered far from Pieszyce.
Due to a mix-up at the airport, he had waited for his mother for almost 10 hours in the secure customs area, while she waited for him in the arrivals area on the other side of a wall.
After unsuccessfully asking airport and immigration staff for help finding out if her son had arrived, she left.
No one at the airport seemed to have noticed Dziekanski waiting for hours in the secure area.
© 2007 Agence France Presse
93 Comments so far
Show AllAn update on the other BC incident:
Man hit with Taser, baton in critical condition
A B.C. man was fighting for his life in hospital Tuesday after a police confrontation involving the use of a Taser the day before.
RCMP in Chilliwack, B.C., say they used pepper spray, batons, and an electric stun gun known as a Taser to subdue a man who appeared to be acting aggressively at a rental store.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071120/taser_chill...
There has been a third BC incident (since RD), but little is known about that one yet. Will fill you in when we have more details.
Manitoba man sues RCMP over Taser use
Turns out he was a former soldier with undiagnosed PTSD and they used it so often he started smelling cooked meat.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/11/21/mba-taser.html
I never heard anyone say they were "glad" to apologize before!
This is the CTV variant of the same information, but with more videos and viewer comments (I am sure that someone will say something worth commenting on:
B.C. launches public inquiry into Taser incident
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071119/vcr_tasers_...
Most people hit with RCMP Tasers unarmed: reports
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071118/taser_repor...
leomanBK, it is pretty easy to gain a diagnosis of ASPD when one has addiction problems. It means a disregard for others. How often does one think of (or care) how one's actions affect others if one is looking to get one's drug's of choice. Since you have been diagnosed, I don't have to look up dsm-iv aspd for the symptoms.
Then again, how often does Cheney think of (or care) how his actions affect others, if it means increasing his power and profit?
leomanBK says: When I realized she'd tapped the federal rap sheet amassed for every citizen and happily shared with all the other cryptofascist law enforcement entities to keep a close eye on all of western civ's 'troublemakes', my lifelong view of O,Canada! changed.
That is a different issue which Wright and Benjamin are looking into.
DaveT says: Any investigation will be a whitewash; they *always* are
Then there will be another one. It is supposed to be a full public inquiry - which usually has more people coming forward when the initial witness are too full of BS. Public inquiries are televised and more apt to be discussed in great detail during question period.
B.C. premier apologizes to Taser victim's mother
(write up and video)
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/19/bc-taserinqui...
Premier=Governor
What you need to know about Gordon Campbell is that you can buy his mugshot on coffee mugs, t-shirts and thongs (the underwear not the foot ware it was patterned after). I will let someone else look up the Hansard for British Columbia.
There has been another Taser event in BC - a man has been hospitalized:
RCMP use Taser on Chilliwack man during arrest
B.C.'s top Mountie has concern officers could become 'Taser shy'
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/19/bc-taser.html
As a former alcoholic, with undiagnosed or treated mental illness that included AntiSocial Personality Disorder, I've had more experience with cops that most citizens. Throughout all of it, I was also possessed of a gifted intellect (Mensa member, novelist, attorney, etc.) that enabled me make observations, draw conclusions and assess things like the cop mentality and its value to the power structure.
Mr attempt to enter BC from Washington state several years ago added further supporting evidence to all I had learned about authoritarians thus far.
Although I had standard ID on me for everyday American driving and living, I hadn't girded my legal loins with passport, voter's regristration card (!) and one or two other petty bureacratic hurdles to clear. This funneled me to the side for 'further investigation'. As soon as I entered the little blockhouse adjoining the border checkpoints, I could smell Big Brother (oiled leather, Neoprene high-impact boot soles, black shoe polish, Brasso for buttons) and sense that I was in an arena where I was guilty until I proved myself innocent. AUTHORITY was thick in the air.
Each step forward advanced me deeper into the mindless, lockstep mentality of petty policing, until I arrived at the butch female in forest green uniform and knee boots who asked for my documents. 'What's the purpose of your wishing to enter Canada?' Whatever happened to 'BRITISH COLUMBIA: SUPERNATURAL'?
'Oh, look around; spend money; subvert your society, the usual stuff.'
'Take a seat.' Oh, for chrisake, what the fuck is THIS?
THIS, friends, was the brutish skull behind the smiling skin of our 'Neighbor to the North'.
When I realized she'd tapped the federal rap sheet amassed for every citizen and happily shared with all the other cryptofascist law enforcement entities to keep a close eye on all of western civ's 'troublemakes', my lifelong view of O,Canada! changed.
OK, a pocketed some Marlboro's 10 years previous; paid my penance and so what? Only the pure are allowed entry?
Her answer was perfect thugspeak: We can deny entry to anyone with a criminal record. Period. Blank face.
What came next, I wondered? Should I break into a tap dance?
Do something to EARN entry?
Instead I got my bloody documents back fast and decided the fascism I knew was better than the one I was just meeting, and did a Uey out of Smiling Canada and its order-enforcing thugs.
Worldwide, cops are cops and citizens are the enemy. To them, the only good citizen is an incarcerated citizen. That was we can be more closely watched and more easily controlled. Every encounter with a cop, in an authoritarian culture, is Police Roulette. You cannot know if you're dealing with a decent, responsible human being or a contemptuous, badge-heavy sadist.
In America Police have become a basic part of the Problem, not the solution. And Canada follows in the jackboot prints down South. Citizens are dispensable.
Only Order and undisturbed capitolism are paramount.
This is where ignorant complacency has taken our nation.
I'd sue both the airport and the police department take the money and go back to Poland.
After unsuccessfully asking airport and immigration staff for help finding out if her son had arrived, she left.
No one at the airport seemed to have noticed Dziekanski waiting for hours in the secure area.
Nobody knows.......nobody cares. I believe the airport has a huge responsibility in this as well.
Cisowski had worked two jobs for seven years to save enough money for her only child to join her in Canada.
I saw the video, http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/115582/Canadian_Police_Taser_Man_to_D...
He didn't know what to do, he was scared, frustrated and couldn't communicate. Didn't the man have a passport that would have indicated where he was from? I have never flown before but isn't there anyone that will help a visitor at an airport? If I had not known better I would have thought the airport was in America. People watch homeless people like they are a side show, cops torture and ask questions later. Security useless. It is looking like it doesn't matter where you go now, its all the same, nobody knows, nobody cares.
I have seen the video. I would say:
1. Any investigation will be a whitewash; they *always* are.
2. The death was likely caused - as many have been in similar circumstances - from suffocation. They pin the person to floor/ground, and the police put their knee(s) on the person's back, compressing the lungs, and suffocation follows.
B.C. government orders Taser inquiry
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/19/bc-taserinqui...
Just heard, there is going to be an inquiry into the Tazer incident.
Heard it on the CBC but it is only up on CTV at present.
B.C. calls for public inquiry into Taser incident
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071119/vcr_tasers_...
Empire Schmempire, Globalization Schmobalization.... Have you seen the video?
maybe I am crazy -- but when you menace law enforcement in in any country of the world there are unpleasant consequences. As a sociological experience - the Canadians here should hop a plane to Krakow Poland with limited Polish-speaking skills and start berating the immigration and security officers... Of course Mr. Dziekanski did not deserve to die for this - but it was really poor judgement no matter the frustration level. When in doubt in a foreign country I usually keep a low profile myself.
Last year I read that between 1 in 200 and 1 in 400 people have hidden heart conditions that make tasers likely to be fatal. I haven't been able to locate the source for that figure-- it seems to be one of those mysterious articles that appear briefly, then disappear. Seems to me that if this is true, (does anybody know the source?) tasers amount to a death sentence for a certain percentage of people, and should obviously be banned.
But of course, in the corporate police state no individual life or death counts.
I am willing to believe for now that under the same circumstances the use of the Taser is preferable to guns because the likelihood of death in the latter is far more certain. What I am not willing to believe is that Tasers are only being used in circumstances where guns were the only alternative. It seems to me this is another example of over-reliance on technology to solve all our problems and one yet again ignoring the human aspect. The Taser is drifting towards use as a form of social control as demonstrated at the university where Kerry was speaking. It is being used willy-nilly simply because it is immediately disabling and can be used from a distance, normally leaving no symptoms or signs of its use. It is too easy to deploy and requires no skills so even morons can be armed with it.
What I am beginning to pick up on now is a link between Tasers and a condition that for want of a better word is called Excited Delirium. Although frequently attributed by law enforcement agencies to drug use, this term is not recognised by any credible mainstream medical body including the American Medical Association. Drug use was not a factor in the Vancouver airport death. Excited Delirium describes a recognizable state that could be confused with other medical conditions such as a sugar imbalance associated with an unusual form of diabetes or an anxiety attack. When a person is in this Excited Delirium state and is subsequently tasered there appears a troubling correlation with death. The same condition under medical care does not appear to have that same correlation because what I am reading is that a different non-reactive calming speech approach is taken.
So if I have this correct, if you have Excited Delirium and you are tasered you may die and your death will be blamed on Excited Delirium, but if you have Excited Delirium and aren't tasered you probably won't die.
I'd say this was a severe problem given the prolific use of Taser technology and the low-paid non-professional's using it at the drop of a hat.
Arvy: I was hoping for more discussion on my post so I really appreciate your reply and I thank you for the information.
cromerovich November 18th, 2007 1:46 pm -- "Let's hear from a medical expert on this one. 'Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate'."
I don't qualify as a 'medical expert', but I can read medical literature and I think I can follow elementary logic. This statement looks very much like a non-sequitur to me.
Sufficient electical current can cause death very rapidly, but that's far from equivalent to saying that death is always immediate. Just ask any witness to the processes involved in deliberate electrocutions.
Recent medical studies (PDF format) suggest that cardiac arrest actually involves several phases, including (1) electrical activity in the heart (about 4 minutes) and (2) circulatory or hemodynamic phase (from 4 to 10 minutes).
That certainly doesn't sound very 'immediate' to me, but I suppose the terminology one uses depends on one's purpose, just as it does when discussing the spread of 'freedom and democracy' by force of arms.
Used to be that when an immigrant came to Canada, it was to make a living. Now it's to get killed. Welcome to the new Canada created by Canada's new government. Hey Harper, Stockwell Day and all the CONservatives........... Bush loves ya!!!!!! and that's all that matters in your world of Canada, USA. A time to weep followed by a time to resist.
Tazer is now threatening legal action for anyone dissing their product. This post on the Globe was there for a short while until the whole article was deleted, even from the archive:
"Dziekanski's death not caused by Taser, says device maker"
What else would you expect a manufacturer to say? Note that in their rebuttal the second word they use is AMATEUR -an immediate attempt to diminish the video's credibility, yet strangely they adopt this same amateur video to expertly diagnose and "prove" all their points.
"His continuing struggle is proof that the TASER device was not the cause of his death"
This sounds like a non sequitur; it assumes that shocks from the Taser could never lead to complications or precipitate a pre-existing heart condition etc. and thereby become a contributing factor that leads to death. Let's hear from a medical expert on this one.
"Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate".
That's odd that they keep having to give second and third jolts in the electric chair but it is reassuring to now know that if you aren't dead immediately from electric shocks that you will never subsequently die from them? Hands up all those who believe this.
"video clearly shows symptoms of excited delirium, a potentially fatal condition"
Pathologists conducting an autopsy and awaiting lab reports etc. are still struggling to find answers yet a weapons hardware manufacture can give irrefutable proof of a condition not even recognized by the American Medical Asociation. Try Wiki on "excited delirium" for a good circular laugh at Taser's expense.
"the role of the TASER device has been cleared in every case to date"
That is very interesting; out of the hundreds that have died after Taser use I wonder why the Taser is then listed as a contributing factor in autopsy reports that I read? How many have died before the Taser was deployed I wonder? Stats anyone?
Taser can state there is no proof that the Taser causes death but can they also state there is proof that the Taser didn't cause death? This is a valid question to which I personally would like a credible answer. Anyone up for discussion on this, especially medical experts? I must also say I am ashamed at the inhuman environments airports have become and the disgusting methods of the RCMP.
Taser statement: http://tinyurl.com/ywcjmf
vaudree November 18th, 2007 1:02 pm -- "Oh yeah, you know what the Winnipeg Free Press did - they showed the pictures of three people shot to death by police officers who they figured would have been alive if there have been tazers."
Gotta love the 'logic' of today's media apologists. Have we really become so focussed on violent answers to every situation that our only choices are between two methodological options: either bullets or electrocution.
There have been a few RCMP death lately - could there be a bit of mild PTSD as well? The RCMP deaths were both domestic calls. This would have increased their frustration level a bit above normal and make themselves a bit more reluctant to put themselves on the line or to be nice. It may have nothing to do with this at all, but having two RCMP officers who were beloved by their communities shot down may have created a mental set where there was a desire to take revenge on anyone who managed to make a good stand in:
Douglas Scott was known as a Mountie who would go out of his way to help people and now he was dead.
"Mourners honour short life of slain Mountie"
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071113/funeral_RCM...
Then there was Christopher Worden and they say that he was so nice that even the people he arrested liked him.
"Slain Mountie remembered as 'caring' man"
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071014/rcmp_funera...
There are some bastards in any profession, so there would be Mounties who take joy in abusing their authority and hurting those who can't fight back. These Mounties should never have been issued a uniform - let alone a tazer.
Then there are some Mounties who, after recent events, figure that they would rather be a live asshole than a dead nice guy.
Think of it, should any of us have a tazer after the death of a family member and should we be taking that tazer to work?
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Unless there has been American coercion with the tazer contract itself (or it is a contract where there is a financial incentive not to get out of it), I don't think that we can blame the Americans on this one.
Who makes the tazer any way?
And why does the manufacturer keep telling us that the tazer is perfectly safe and that these deaths have nothing to do with their product? The tazer may be another Diane-35.
Oh yeah, you know what the Winnipeg Free Press did - they showed the pictures of three people shot to death by police officers who they figured would have been alive if there have been tazers. One wonders about this a bit - why they went to the trouble.
In most cases, tazer shock is safer than bullets, but not all cases. And there is no research that I know of which says multiple shocks over a short period are safe, period.
Stun Guns / Tazers should absolutely be outlawed....... PERIOD. What they have created is a situation where officers have a non-lethal weapon that leaves NO MARKS when used point blank, and is a wonderful torture device for sadists and angry law enforcement officers. The willingness to use this weapon rather than resort to persuasion and other means of dealing with a situation is high. If the only tool you possess is a hammer then the solution to every problem looks like a hammer. Guns blow big bloody holes in people, and billy clubs leave bruises, broken bones, and blood. The Tazer is far to sanitary, and after it has been used, unless death occurs as in this case, it is your word against that of the officer. Victims of "tazer torture" have showed amazing restraint.. working within the system.... a system that protects the torturers rather than bringing satisfaction and justice for the victim. I personally know of a number of instances when these devices have been used in this way locally...... by park police, and I have yet to hear of victims being compensated or perpetrators punished. These men and women need to be AFRAID to use this weapon inappropriately for fear of legal consequences....... or of private vengeance. Tazer torturers are criminals, and if the law will not deal with them, then citizens need to take matters into their own hands! ...... It's called vigilantism ..... it's currently out of vogue, but needs to be revived in this case.
H.W.
You give someone a new toy, they want nothing more than a reason to use it.
People in general (law enforement no exception) tend to take the path of least resistance; fact of nature. Tasering is just so much easier than using the training they received in subduing a subject and you don't break a sweat.
There certainly seems to be a lot of tasing incidents of late in the USA and Canada. Just laziness or one more example of the new fascist North America?
First the US gets into a "Security" arrangement with Canada, now...this -- a first test-demonstration of how it will work!
There is NO reason for Canada to follow the Devil's footsteps.
Who, I wonder was involved in setting up and counting our northern neighbor's last election?
Canadians, time to fight back. You may have a better chance of it. Don't let this corporate alliance stand.
Personally, I think that we need to know whether the company which puts out tazers is lying as much as we need to discipline these cops. There needs to be guidelines as to the safe appropriate use of tazers. Though, until / unless this can be done, we should stop using them. I don't think that we should be using people as lab rats and that is basically what we are doing.
What do you think are the odds that these guys will go to Polland. As far as I know, Polland doesn't have the Death Penalty.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
SPEAKING OUT: on The Use of Tasers
EXCERPT FROM HANSARD 15 November, 2007
Ms. Libby Davies (Vancouver East, NDP): - Mr. Speaker, I have been calling for a full review of the use of tasers since 2004, shortly after their implication in the deaths of two people who lived in my riding of Vancouver East.
We learned yesterday that after only 30 seconds on the scene at the Vancouver airport, the RCMP tasered Mr. Dziekanski at least twice, with charges of 50,000 volts. Moments later, he was dead.
In too many instances, tasers are being used on the homeless, people with mental health problems or drug use problems and essentially the most marginalized people in our communities.
There are no clear national standards for the use of tasers and little understanding of their impact. Two more men died in Quebec after being tasered earlier this year. We cannot wait for one more victim before action is taken.
Until strict standards are in place, until we can know that tasers are safe and until we can be sure that tasers are being used properly, they should not be in use. We call for a full and comprehensive review of the use of tasers.
http://www.libbydavies.ca/
Memorial held for Polish man who died in Taser incident
(CBC with video)
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/11/17/taser-death.html
Officers involved in Taser incident reassigned
CTV says: Hundreds mourned the death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski on Saturday, while RCMP Commissioner William Elliott said the officers who shocked him with a Taser had been reassigned.
(CTV with lots of video)
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071117/dziekanski_...
You wanted conservative government, you got it.
Was wondering how long it would take this story to show up here.
Ireneus says: It's all about the pleasure of shooting someone without the horror of killing someone.
Pretty much. That and not throwing one's back out or the odd bruise.
Feel sorry for the poor guy: he was in a strange land where he couldn't understand anybody and didn't know how to get around. His mother told him to wait somewhere and no one would let him. I think he was more afraid of being stuck in a strange place and never meeting up with his mother than anything. I guess pretty much how we would all have felt if we were trying to meet someone in Poland.
dingoboy says: From what I've read, this makes about 18 deaths by taser here in Canada, about 200 in the states, so far.
Not according to the manufacterer! The people who make these guns insist that none of the deaths attributable to these guns are the result of the guns!
Actually, their argument doesn't hold up because they claim preexisting medical condition. It is like Viagra not being a fault if you have a heart condition. The difference is that men who take Viagra know the risks (because they are repeated over and over again) and make a choice to take it. A person doesn't choose to be tazered!
There is probably a segment of the population for which bullets would be a safer alternative to lazer guns - those high on certain drugs or with certain heart conditions would probably better survive a gun shot in the arm or leg that a shot of shock.
Multiple shocks are just asking for trouble since I doubt even the flawed research of the manufacturer takes into account the use of multiple shocks.
The problem is that shocks are seen as painful but harmless so there is no incentive to use them sparingly.
Seems like these video phone are all over the place - turning out to be a good thing too. I doubt that we would have even seen the video if the Cops hadn't lied about it so blatantly. I doubt that we would have even known that they were lying if we did not see the video.
Read all the comments, nothing to add.
Except - the Winnipeg Free Press poll results so far:
Do you support Green Party Leader Elizabeth May's call for a moratorium on the use of Tasers?
Yes 66%
No 34%
Total Votes: 2738
It's all about the pleasure of shooting someone without the horror of killing someone.
Psychological experiments have shown quite clearly that people who take on authoritarian roles of maintaining order or discipline drift toward sadistic brutality.
In this regard, tasers are the perfect solution to a unique problem. The desire to shoot someone is great, but if you do so with a firearm, you will go to jail. Aha, a "non-lethal" gun such as a taser allows you to shoot someone with a gun, but escape the consequences normally associated with gun violence.
Many cops say they hope they never have to un-holster
their firearm and shoot someone, but many are just mouthing the words because that is the norm for the role of "peace keeper".
I guess Canada is finally proving itself to be the razor-wired backyard of the U.S., where dogs frothing at the mouth with aggression are free to roam.
I loved the line from the police spokesman that said we should suspend judgement until they can try to come up with some story to explain away a murder.
If this was treated as say a case of manslaughter, that would help make some other police officers think twice about using a taser as so nicely described in the post above.
The taser was intended to provide an alternate to shooting someone, but in the contest of it's has turned into:
1. A pain-compliance device for someone who is otherwise not the least hostile.
2. A arbitrary, extrajudicial punishment/torture device - electric shocks are regarded as torture by every international convention or law I've ever seen.
3. A labor saving device - instead of having to exert themselves handcuffing and carrying the arrestee to the paddy wagon, they just prod them with the tazer.
4. A device that is very effective in it's use against nonviolent civil disobedience. Even Thoreau would have thought twice...
Jan Steinman November 17th, 2007 11:14 am -- "And I thought I was moving to Canada to get away from all this. The stench of the New World Odor is enveloping Canada."
Considering the overpowering strength of that stench worldwide, Canada's filters just aren't adequate to compensate for its close proximity to one of the primary sources.
In truth, there is no escape anywhere. Running won't stop the tide, let alone reverse it. As I've said before, the only alternatives are revolution or surrender.
It's amazing the guy ever got his video back. The mounties are really far behind in the brazen bullshit department when compared to US law enforcement. In the US, when the police get their hands on anything like this, they either erase it or "lose" it. The big catch 22 here is that if you don't turn the tape over to the police on the scene, the prosecutors can't put it in evidence because chain of possession has been broken, and if you do turn it over to the police without first making copies, the original always gets sabotaged so there is no reliable video evidence to use. Of course, no matter what the tape clearly shows, there is always the police department PR puppet telling the media that you can't believe your lying eyes.
This isn't "Canada's" doing. It's the modernized Brownshirt police tactics of the North American Union, brought to you by Bu$hCo.
In addition to being dangerously lethal, tasers are also implements of torture. If people truly need to be restrained, they can use nets or even tranquilizer guns if needed. But the first approach should be to help, not confront.
I suspect that the use of tasers has another purpose, to intimidate the population with the threat of torture.
Again, police officers will investigate the possible criminal actions of other police officers - does anyone expect anything other than a whitewash and complete exoneration.
Bear in mind that the first official RCMP statement turned out to completely false, and as the RCMP sergeant must have seen the video, consciously false.
"Just as gun manufacturers are prosecuted for shooting deaths..."
News to me.
I know the media were hobbled in trying to find out what Robert Dziekanski was saying since the video had been turned over to the police. However, it is interesting that Paul Pritchard in an interview on CBC Radio said that as the police approached Dziekanski, he appeared to calm down. Dziekanski's tone of voice indicated he must have believed that help had finally come.
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2007/200711/20071115.html
When did the militarization of the police take place? Look at their military haircuts and the way the police talk in their formal jargon like a military general or other officer. I have neighbors who are police officers and they don't particularly like what has happened to to the image of the police. Let's do something about this trend. Speak up and be heard.
What can I say. But I need to say something. My heart goes out to the family and friends of this innocent victim.
And I thought I was moving to Canada to get away from all this. The stench of the New World Odor is enveloping Canada.
I think ordinary citizens should arm themselves with Tasers so they can shoot back. They should be permitted on airplanes and anywhere else ordinary citizens are subject to police brutality. I personally would like to arm myself with the shotgun type of Taser that can be reloaded repeatedly as a pump shotgun can. If two or three citizens gathered together to defend themselves, a group of Mounties or any other crack team of special forces would have to think twice about "escalation" of use of force.
The right to bear arms should be extended to ordinary citizens being able to defend themselves against aggressive police. If one is rich enough, he could be met at the airport with an Apache Attack Helicopter and a contingent of armed personal guards to prevent his being killed by trigger-happy low-IQ "security" personnel.
Here is another revolting tidbit on tasers: Numerous 'suspects' have died after being repeatedly tasered by American police. Their crime: Epilepsy - having a seizure and not being able to follow police orders during the attack or the post-ictal period when the poor devils make chewing or sucking noises and stare emptily into space. There has been some serious discussion on whether in-services should be held across the country to explain that epileptic seizures, while not pleasant to observe, do not constitute a danger to society or to our Public Guardians - even when the convulsing suspect does not comply with 'lawful' orders. There you have it. Another crime in the Fascist United States: Epilepsy. I am waiting for them to 'Taze' my autistic sister for non-compliance with their barks...You should check out all the authorities who have made millions on stock in the Taser manufacturer - pushing this toy on security agencies all over the country and abroad...starting with Rudy (Benito) Giuliani...our next Prez.
This guy was locked up by the defendants for 10 hours while he knew his mother was waiting for him somewhere!
Can't blame him for throwing the computer to the floor, that's not much of a crime.
The Canadians didn't connect the Polish lady standing for hours waiting for someone; why didn't she look suspicious? Be courtious, ask her if they could help her-Oh I waiting for my son to arrive from poland. Oh I think I know who you are talking about!
In this police state the human side of us is disappearing.
Why didn't they get someone to interpret the language????? I used to work in a hospital. That's always what we did. Try to determine what language they spoke and go from there! It was no big deal to have German traveling in the west sightseeing!
After the Maher Arar investigation, the report said the RCMP was "terribly broken", and it did lead to that horrible little man, Zaferelli(?) being booted, but yeah, these copsuckers have become like a cult. If some brave politician does stand up against them, it won't be long before there will be an "RCMP Press Release" saying the guy or gal is being investigated for something or other. And it works; shuts them up, fast.
"To Serve and Protect" . . . themselves. And they hate us, the civilians. Whenever one of them is "killed in the line of duty," thousands of them gather, including amerikan cops, and it's reminiscent of the Hells Angels or the Mob. Gang mentality rules.
By the time enough people wake up and realize, yeah, there is a sadistic streak, from the top on down, mean enough to blow up the Twin Towers for their agenda's sake, it will be too late.
This is absolutely shocking!
If you liked the taser, just wait till you get the puke ray:-
http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=138&a=4196
Is that like the British Bobbies who shot an innocent Brazilian in the head seven times and then asked him what his business was? All of the police forces of all of the corporate governments are nothing more than the famous SS of nazi Germany fame. If you don't understand what kind of world you are living in then you might just as well sit back in your soft easy-chair and watch the world change for the better once we get rid of that scum. But when the change does come we don't want to hear any complaints from you about how we execute the billionaries and the other scum which abetted them in their multitudinous crimes.
This weapon is a toy or tool for sadists. The police who Tasered the kid who asked Kerry a question, this and other examples show that the police just loose control of themselves and seem to enjoy what they are doing. The country would be safer and less violent if no one had these weapons. The police should be like the Britsish Bobbies-unarmed. And they should have to take pschological tests repeatedly. A mentally imbalanced person or a person who enjoys violence on any level should not be in law enforcement on any level.
DeAnander November 16th, 2007 7:50 pm said,
"what the US has in mind for Canada is Anschluss…"
Yeah, I've been warning my Canadian friends about that for the last few years. I think right now the Anschluss is on hold while they do their secret North American Co-Prosperity Sphere. You know the one where they turn North America into one country so the American Corporations can rape Canada's natural resources using cheap Mexican Labour, all carefully guarded by Blackwater, er, Homeland Security. They even plan a new currency standard, the Yanko, or something like that.
Sick. Demented. Stupid. The Taser did nothing positive for anyone except the Taser manufacturer: the man continues to struggle violently even after being electrocuted. Only now he's in extreme pain and his body is surging with adrenalin. Does that help the officers? I doubt it.
The RCMP will spin and twist the perception of this incident all they can, but the truth is plain and simple: this was thuggery. For not having taken the time to find a Polish translator (in Vancouver for god's sake, man!) or even approaching the man with a bottle of water and a damned cookie to sit and listen (even if they didn't understand a word) the entire security administration at YVR should be fired in a public ceremony. They have lost their humanity.
The problem is not with the police forces having tasers, it is that the type of people who are hired for the police forces are a low quality human with low moral standards. That is because they are the type which will obey orders unquestionably. If anyone thinks that the capitalist police forces are there to serve and protect, then you're really gullible and you might as well continue voting in those phony elections.
One good thing: Canadians are truly shocked and outraged by this incident. It's a huge story and it's not going away. It's all over the news and everybody seems to be disgusted by it. The brave guy who took the video also took a stand and released it. So maybe something will change because of this. From what I've read, this makes about 18 deaths by taser here in Canada, about 200 in the states, so far. They started out as a "last resort" alternative to guns but they've turned into the favourite punishment by incompetent cops everywhere.
Always Taser or shoot to kill___and if that doesn`t work, then waterboard them. That is our new world.
You would think with all of the "security" at the airports someone may have noticed the man was in the area for 10 hours.
Passangers are made to feel like they are criminals-I am surprised more people do not fly.
In the usa we are lucky to get a bathroom at any place of business.
This is more spend money and then be on your merry way. People do not care about each other because there is no profit in it.
DeAnander: "Anschluss" - Austria, 1938
They'll soon have us begging to be allowed to join the Fourth Reich. I'd say we're about 80% there already. Amazing what propaganda and the modern media can accomplish.
Do you mean to say that there's resistance? That there are some who have decided to straighten their backs from centuries of colonial stoop? Really? More power to them indeed!
It sickens me to no end to watch my country in its final free fall towards the totalitarian, fascist black hole that is our neighbour south of the 'longest undefended border'.
For shame.
Yes DeAnander, our current government does suck, but the number of people who would admit that they want to be more like "big brother" to the south is quite small.
We do have a few dumbass right-wingers, but most of them are somewhere around Hillary or Obama on the political scale (yes, that's right wing in Canada).
Now back to topic, what really bothers me is how we (I think it was the same in the US) were sold on law enforcement getting tazers. We were all told it was going to save lives because they are less lethal than guns. Nobody said anything about them being used as a restraining method.
WTF: We're f'n furious about this, it's the talk of every office. If you want to see what typical Canadians think, check the posted comments on the website of our national broadcaster:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/bc/2007/11/whats_your_reaction_to_this_v...
You can see the video here:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/276565
and here:
http://www.thestar.com/fpLarge/video/277156
what the US has in mind for Canada is Anschluss...
and sadly, there are Canadians who are keen on it, wanting to be "just like Big Brother to the South"
just look at Harper and his mob... Americanising Canada as fast as they can/dare, thuggifying and militarising the coppers, eroding the social safety net, buying off business-owners with tax rebates. Thatcherism, like termites, spreading throughout the English-speaking nations.
there is resistance in Canada though... more power to them.
Let's see, four burly cops, one unarmed middle-aged man not making any threats or threatening gestures. Yeah, better shoot him with whatever we have before we talk to him.
'To serve and protect.'
Makes mental note to self: "Be sure to cross Canada off the list of places to flee in case of martial law..."
Oh, Canada,
Not enough room for the refuge seekers?
How the mighty is falling:
Tased to death the Polish immigrant,
seeking refuge with his elderly mother.
Refused asylum to US soldiers
seeking refuge from Bush's dirty war.
Oh, Canada!!
when big boys have a toy, they just have to use it. get rid of tazers, and give them a net gun.
Hmm, looks like 'ole Canada is moving right along in their quest to be like "our heroes" here. Dirty shame to take what was a nice country, Fair country, open to it's neighbor's poitical refugees during the Vietnam fiasco.
Now, thanks to their government's leaders being bought by our corporations, being taught how to drop to their knees to feed, they have the "honor" of being right down there next to the "Evil Empire" itself; The United States of Amnesia.
As a Canadian I am ashamed. As a human being I am ashamed. The R.C.M.P. is out of control and they answer to no one.
I don't know if the non-canadian readers herd the one about the young guy in Northern British Columbia who was shot by a R.C.M.P. officer in the back of the head. The investigation came to the conclusion that during a struggle between the two the cop shot the young guy in the head while they were wrestling on the floor. All quite possible I suppose until you read the part where they would have you believe the young guy was on top with the cop facig down and some how he was able to get his gun out, reach behind and shoot the kid in the head.
like I believe that........as much as I believe what comes out of politicians mouths before election!
The RCMP have really been reduced to a gang of thugs. Four of them were unable to control this situation that involved one man without using the taser as their first choice of action - something is wrong with this picture. A terrible crime being committed by ones who should be preventing crime. So-called "terrorism" has brought us police state practices and its not a surprise given the lack of leadership is Canada and the US.
Unlike the completely barbaric USA (the United States of Atrocities), Canada is a somewhat civilized nation. I can only hope that Canada sets a good example for the USA by banning taser guns.
2cents,
Thanks for the post from CBC, glad to see there's resistance. As with so many things happening just south of your border, tazering people to death is definitely yet another import I'm sure y'all don't want, and with good reason. In my view, cops shouldn't be armed with anything but conflict resolution and self-defense skills, and should be banned from using force unless the threat of bodily harm is real, and they never should use lethal force.
On the other hand, I also think that the prison industrial complex as a whole needs to be abolished - it's caused way too much pain and suffering, and is anything but a solution. Some of you may say "What would we do with violent offenders," to which I would point out a few things:
Most people who break the law aren't violent offenders;
Many people have been murdered by the police without even being charged with anything to begin with, or were not even breaking the law when they were murdered;
What we need is community-based, compassionate, restorative justice work, not prisons.
Kropotkin said it best years ago, prisons serve no purpose save to be be universities where people can learn to be better criminals - to which I would add, they also serve to intimidate, coerce and force people into compliance and submission with an authoritarian state/corporate force (aka fascism). As long as there are prisons, there never will be democracy.
Here is a story: The 87 year-old father-in-law of my close friend was detained at JFK two year ago. He was flying in from Japan to attend the promotion ceremony of his daughter-in-law, a US Air Force officer, who was being promoted to full Colonel. He was to be the guest of honor. This distinguished, elderly Japanese citizen was a well known professor of agronomy and plant physiology having trained generations of scientists throughout Asia. His long flight fatigue and slow English led the ever vigilant Customs officials to shout at him and take him off for three hours of interrogation -- all while his son, a university professor in New York, was frantically trying to find out what had happened to him. When our guardians finally released the thoroughly shaken-up father to his son, the old professor was barely able to speak. The next day he suffered a heart attack at the promotion ceremony at Dover Air Base and had to be hospitalized for over a month. Moral of the story - there is none - fascism cast a broad net and has no concern over the suffering of its victims. They always have an excuse - its called 'protecting the public'. There was no follow-up: My Colonel friend was discouraged from lodging a complaint..."We have to protect the system." Change the nationalities and era: An elderly Jewish professor in the early days of fascist Germany...the family with official positions, discouraged from complaining.
Shoot and ask questions later......and if he dies, well dead man don't talk. This is the four more years republican's voted for! Isn't it great!
Porcupine--tasers are just one more of the many developed weapons to keep the "rabble" at bay. There are so many "crowd control" devises being developed now with our tax dollars that are and will continue to be used against us. It's like asking a group of people who are going to be shot in the head, to dig their own mass grave first. WAKE UP CITIZENS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!
thinkingmom---empire or fascism?----doesn't matter what we call it--it's about total and brutal control of the many by the few. Names don't matter. By their deeds you will know them.
I do not understand. It is not just about the taser gun. It is about the fact that instead of approaching him "hey buddy what we can do for you" thingy they fucking shot him. That is the problem. Real gun or taser gun does not matter. The problem is that the very first thing that comes to their mind is to shoot.
"He urged the public to withhold their judgment of what they see on the video until the police can explain their conduct while testifying under oath at a coroner's inquest."
A picture is worth a thousand words.
I don't think the RCMP will be able to "explain" anything.
The cops are enjoying the hell out of torturing people with tasers. And here in the good old USA, the public seems to support them!
Just as gun manufacturers are prosecuted for shooting deaths, the makers of tasers should be on trial. How many deaths so far from these "nonlethal" tools? It's in the hundreds. How many avoidable deaths? The number's the same. What's wrong with this picture?
On the broader horizon, as the Bush/Cheney ooze spreads, there will be more and more resistance; Tasers are just once more nasty word in their lexicon of fear and terror.
This abuse of power is really sick and out of control. Before tasers, they would have just had to find a translator!
"He urged the public to withhold their judgment of what they see on the video until the police can explain their conduct while testifying under oath at a coroner's inquest."
So the police kept the video for a month before it was requested to be returned and the best they can come up with is wait until the inquest. How long until that becomes public record, not that it matters. All the parties have had a chance to view and review their actions and develop plausible explanations for what people will see, and make sure their stories match.
For shame. The folks who say that without Tasers, the cops would have had to risk assault with a stapler are right on. Those 4 jack-booted goons took the easy way out...for themselves.
Any "working cop" who cannot take someone into custody without electrocuting him or her, needs to have his head examined.
Cops have been taking people into custody for decades, without the capability of electrocution. They still can; it's called a little good, old-fashioned, police-work.
New toys for the girls and the boys! And believe me, the girls and the boys will use their new toys. These fools did. And it cost an innocent man his life.
The video is undeniable. It is, what it is.
Tasers need to be taken away, period. They have been consistently misused by law-enforcement time and again. Just look around on the net.
When any group "out there," is that irresponsible with the tools they carry; those tools need to be taken away. No judgement no; no sale.
I saw the video of this incident. The police officer drew a taser before words were even exchanged. Police have levels of force that are used.
The first is simply the officers presence. It failed to have any effect on Mr. Dziekanski.
The next level is verbal commands which the officers failed to attempt as evidenced in the video. A security agent told the police that the man did not speak English. Attempts should still have been made to direct the suspect to comply.
The next is physical control which again the officers failed to even try.
The next is the use of "non-lethal" weapons (Nightstick, Tear Gas or Taser)
The last level is deadly force.
These officers failed to follow proper guidelines for control of a suspect and the use of deadly force. They clearly escalated the situation. This death was preventable. Mr. Dziekanski made no effort to physically confront the officers in any way.
What a shame
You've never met a drill instructor have you S17TR5? The ones I met were all shorter than I am and had no trouble intimidating the hell out of me. Your size does not make you a better man. Bigger weapons are not the way to enforce order. Proper training in martial arts (judo in this case) would have given the cops all they needed to subdue this guy and all would have lived. Calling in someone from the airlines who could speak Russian would have been a good idea, at least then someone could have figured out he was Polish and rather than torture the guy to death the cops could have spoken to him. The bastards didn't wait to open fire, IMHO it was an act of murder by the police.
Calling it disgraceful conduct by the RCMP is like describing gang rape as a 'mild social deviation.'
Back in the 70's you had to be 6 feet tall and a man to join the RCMP. When the boots and hat were added, the police officer presented at about 6 foot 3 inches tall and looked down at most people. This gave the officer his first line of authority and defense. These officers were well trained, confident, and muscular. Most individuals, who were approached by them, automatically were somewhat subdued.
Then the RCMP became politically correct and the physical stature and gender requirement was terminated. In the feeble attempt to replace this front line defense, we now have tasers. You cannot replace real police officers with boys and girls dressed in pretty costumes.
This behavior is all due to 9/11 and the terrorism facade. http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=1941&CID=143085
Fascism at its peak.
Good ol benign modern technology in action.
Yes-it is amazing that Canada has idiots too. What is the world coming to? Next I will find out that Canada is, I dont know, annually slaughtering half a million baby seals with spiked clubs to save face for destroying the east coast fisheries. But lol--that could never happen. Canada is a peaceful non violent country.
The problem has much to do with Empire. I see two aspects of this in the current example. People cannot act "human" in an airport...or they risk death...witness the woman in Phoenix recently...the high tech, high security, high anonymity of airports leads to frustration, frustrated people act frustrated...they yell, they puff up their bodies, they are looking for compassion and sympathy (and a solution to their problem)...but the empire deals with them using a police force. A police force full of "soldiers" who believe in orders and order...not messy human unpredictability. A police force who have at their disposal high tech weapons and surveillence equipment, who's mission it is to impose the "order" of the masters. What a horrible tragedy...We always hear that Canada is like the US, only 20 years ago...looks like they caught up... At who's bidding? Airport security??? it's all for show...and people are dying because of it...Why has it become subdue and arrest first? why not engage a little??? Guilty till proven innocent...sounds like empire to me. MUST BEHAVE...
No one will be held accountable, here in the UK the police shot a Brazilian plumber 7 times through the head, after the inquest it was decided it was all an unfortunate accident.
The real story, however, is how big a story this is in Canada - from coast to coast.
It would have been ignored, outside of the local papers and TV if it had happened in the US. There certainly would not have been the widespread clamor to do something about it.