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An Open Letter to Liberal Supporters of the Libya War
Middle East historian and blogger Juan Cole recently wrote a polemic against progressive U.S. critics of the new U.S. war in Libya. In his polemic, he wrote, "I hope we can have a calm and civilized discussion of the rights and wrongs here."
The decision of the Obama Administration to engage the country in a new Middle East war without Congressional authorization represents a long-term threat to the U.S. peace movement, because the U.S. peace movement is engaged in a long struggle to try to influence U.S. policy in the direction of less war, and Congress is a key arena in which the peace movement tries to assert influence over U.S. policy. (Credit: AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)
I strongly agree with Juan that it is important for progressive critics of U.S. foreign policy to try to have a calm and civilized discussion about the issues that have been raised by the U.S. military intervention in Libya. In general, it's important to try to have calm and civilized discussions about all issues of public policy, even when - especially when - the underlying issues are matters of life and death. The alternative is nasty polemics, and a principal effect of nasty polemics is to exclude people from discussion who don't want to engage in nasty polemics. In this way the effect of nasty polemics is anti-democratic; nasty polemics tend to demobilize people and cause them to disengage, when what we need is the opposite: more engagement and more mobilization.
In this particular case, the decision of the Obama Administration to engage the country in a new Middle East war without Congressional authorization represents a long-term threat to the U.S. peace movement, because the U.S. peace movement is engaged in a long struggle to try to influence U.S. policy in the direction of less war, and Congress is a key arena in which the peace movement tries to assert influence over U.S. policy. If you take away power from Congress to determine issues of war and peace, you substantially reduce the power of the U.S. peace movement to influence issues of war and peace. Taking away Congressional war powers is to the peace movement like taking away collective bargaining is to the labor movement: a direct threat to our ability to move our agenda on behalf of our constituents.
There doesn't appear to be any plausible way right now to try to completely undo the fact that the Obama Administration has made this power grab for the war-making power of the Executive Branch, which goes beyond anything that the last Bush Administration did on war powers. Whatever else may be true about them, the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 and the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 were authorized by Congress. In the case of the Iraq war, there was a vigorous Congressional and public debate before the war took place.
There's a lot to fault about the limits of that debate, but at least there was one. And the arguments that the Bush Administration made - many of them false - in order to get Congressional approval for the war served as benchmarks for future debates over the continuation of the war, when the war and occupation moved far away from the initial justifications for them, as wars and occupations often do. This contributed significantly to efforts to end the Iraq war, which is a key reason that Congressional debate and authorization are important, even when they don't prevent a war from starting. To the extent that the need for Congressional debate and authorization prevents wars from starting, it is mainly through its deterrent effect: if you get to the point where there is a Congressional vote on an authorization, you've probably already lost in the short run. But if Congressional approval is necessary, then the only wars that are going to start are ones that Congress will approve.
But although there's no plausible way right now for Congress to try to completely undo what President Obama has done to Congressional war powers, now that Congress is back in session - the Senate comes back today and the House comes back tomorrow - Congress can try to limit the damage of this precedent, by asserting its own war powers. Congress could, for example, expressly prohibit the introduction of U.S. ground forces into Libya. Congress could establish a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from the conflict, or require explicit authorization beyond a certain time period. Congress could establish a ceiling on how much money the Pentagon can spend on the conflict without further authorization. [You can contact your Representative here.]
This is not, as some would have it, "merely an issue of process." Is the right to challenge the government's ability to arrest and detain you "merely an issue of process?" Of course, it is not. The right to challenge the government's ability to arrest and detain you helps keep innocent people out of jail. The right of Congress to debate and authorize a military intervention before it takes place if the country or its armed forces have not been attacked helps keep us out of unjust wars. Habeas corpus doesn't keep all innocent people out of jail, and the need for Congressional debate and authorization doesn't stop all unjust wars, but if keeping innocent people out of jail is something that you care about, the weakening of habeas corpus is not something that you should take lightly; and if stopping unjust wars is something that you care about, the weakening of Congressional war powers is not something that you should take lightly.
If you still think that the weakening of Congressional war powers is something unimportant to the general public -"inside baseball" - consider this: you've probably received at some time an email from some organization that has asked you to take some action on some issue of war and peace. The last time you were asked to take some action, what action were you asked to take? Probably, the last action you were asked to take was to write or call your representatives in Congress. So, when the Administration acted without Congressional authorization, when it established a precedent that Congress will have less say about when the country goes to war, it was reducing your ability to intervene in U.S. government policy; it was reducing the ability of organizations you support to intervene in U.S. government policy.
And the precedent that has been set here, especially if Congress does not take affirmative action to reassert its war powers, is extremely dangerous. If President Obama can engage the country in a war in Libya with a "recess bombing" which has not been authorized by Congress, what's to stop a future President from doing the same thing in Iran? Suppose that some Iranians organize an armed insurrection against the Iranian government. Suppose that the Iranian government moves to suppress the insurrection with force. Suppose the Iranian government appears to be on the verge of putting down the insurrection, and the armed insurgents appeal for outside military assistance. And suppose there that were a Congressional recess coming up. If the Administration waits until the Congressional recess so it can bomb Iran in support of the armed insurrection without Congressional authorization, would that be ok with you?
The claim that the President had to act when Congress was out of session because it was an emergency conveniently ignores the fact that it was it an emergency that was foreseen when Congress was in session. The Security Council debated when Congress was in session. The Arab League debated when Congress was in session. And the U.S. military operation was planned when Congress was in session. Indeed, the same day that the Administration went to the Security Council, it briefed some Members of Congress - while Congress was in session. Moreover, of course, Congress can come back into session anytime. If it was an emergency, Congress could convene.
Every country is different, and every military intervention is different. But there are some patterns here that should trouble us.
One pattern is the invocation of an apparent emergency to short-circuit debate over a U.S military intervention that may turn out to have a much greater cost, duration and scope than people were made aware of at the time of the emergency that was used to sell it. In Iraq, it was Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction: "don't let the smoking gun be a mushroom cloud." In Afghanistan, the emergency was the 9/11 terrorist attacks. In Libya, the emergency was the expected Libyan government assault on Benghazi. Note that while in the case of Iraq, the weapons of mass destruction story turned out to be a hoax, in the case of Afghanistan, there really was a terrorist attack on 9/11. But the "emergency" effect was the same. Because it's an emergency - it's always an emergency - there's no time to think, no time to deliberate, no time to debate, no time to evaluate possible alternative courses of action. There's only one possible course of action, and that's already been decided: war. The role assigned to the public by the Administration is just to agree with what's already been decided.
Nine years after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, Al Qaeda is essentially gone from Afghanistan and 100,000 U.S. troops remain; more than a thousand Americans and tens of thousands of Afghans have been killed. The authorization of force for the invasion of Afghanistan has been used as the basis for U.S. military intervention in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and the Philippines, as well as for the indefinite detention facilities at Guantanamo and Baghram. Now that you know what was inside the bag, don't you wish that we had had the opportunity to examine its contents more carefully before we purchased it?
Eight years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, there were no weapons of mass destruction, Saddam Hussein has been executed, the Baath Party is illegal in Iraq, thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, the US-installed Iraqi government suppresses demonstrations with force, and we're still there. Don't you wish that we had had more opportunity to examine the contents of this bag before we purchased it?
And now we have a new war. And in this case, we didn't get to examine the bag beforehand at all, or even make a purchase. We've just been informed that the purchase was complete - and here's your bag. And there a lot of unanswered questions. How much is this war going to cost, at a time when many in Washington want to cut nutritional assistance for poor children, rent subsidies for poor families, and Social Security benefits? Now that Libyan government forces have retreated and rebel forces are advancing, are we "protecting civilians," or are we supporting the rebel offensive? If we are intervening in a civil war, shouldn't Congress debate that? If actual effect of our military activity on the ground is to support a rebel offensive to overthrow the Libyan government militarily - regardless of Administration statements that that is not our objective - shouldn't Congress debate that?
What is the exit strategy? Italy has proposed an immediate ceasefire and negotiations to end the violent conflict in Libya, allowing Qaddafi to go into exile. What is the position of the U.S. on the Italian proposal? Does the U.S. support real negotiations to resolve the crisis, or is it the de facto position of the U.S. that the war must continue, with the U.S. de facto supporting the armed rebels' offensive, until the Libyan government is overthrown by force? If it is the de facto U.S. position that the war must continue until the Libyan government is overthrown, what is the U.S. plan for running Libya after the Libyan government is overthrown? Are the armed rebels to become the new Libyan government? Has a determination been made that armed rebels from Benghazi will be accepted by people in Tripoli as their legitimate government? If people in Tripoli organize an armed rebellion against a new government led by people from Benghazi, what will our position on that be? Will we assist the new government in suppressing such a rebellion with force? And what role is envisioned for Western oil companies in a new Libyan government's management of Libya's oil wealth?
It was precisely to try to prevent the situation that we are in now - a new war that Congress has not had the opportunity to debate and authorize - that Congress passed the War Powers Resolution in 1973. Congress was trying to prevent the President from circumventing Congress by creating "facts on the ground." Contrary to what many have claimed, President Obama has not obeyed the War Powers Resolution in the case of the U.S. military intervention in Libya. The War Powers Resolution - which is a law, here's a link to the U.S. code - states explicitly that military force must be used pursuant to Congressional authorization unless the U.S. or its armed forces are attacked:
(c) Presidential executive power as Commander-in-Chief; limitation The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.
As a candidate for President in December 2007, former constitutional law professor and then U.S. Senator Barack Obama understood the issue perfectly well. He was asked by the Boston Globe:
In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites -- a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)
And Obama responded:
The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.
This was the same Barack Obama who said, also as a candidate for President, in March 2007:
I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution.
The Administration's assault on the war powers of Congress is extremely grave. It is essential for efforts to prevent wars in the future that Congress take steps to limit this assault on Congressional war powers. You can communicate with your Representative here.
- Posted in


46 Comments so far
Show AllHmmm - if it's never been any different, what are we worrying about?
1.
This article starts out hinting that it will be rebuttle of Juan Cole's superb piece, but than dithers onto confronting none of his points at all and starts a new argument on the legality of the whole conflict and the detrimental effect that it has upon the peace movement.
Never mind that waiting for congress would have made the point moot as Bengazi would have likely fallen in a few days and the nascent erevolt would have died along with countless other citizens. That is not the point, after all it is the legality of the process that must be debated.
The legal problem has already been addressed by the US signing onto the UN charter articles 42 to 44 dealing with military interventioned sacntioned by the UNSC, which states, and I paraphrase that the Prrsident is authorized to use military forces to intervene without contravening domestic congresisoanl approval. If you have a problem with that then the axe to grind is with the charter as signitory to the UN, not with the Obama administration.
Article 41
The Security Council may decide what measures not involving the use of armed force are to be employed to give effect to its decisions, and it may call upon the Members of the United Nations to apply such measures. These may include complete or partial interruption of economic relations and of rail, sea, air, postal, telegraphic, radio, and other means of communication, and the severance of diplomatic relations.
Article 42
Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.
Article 43
All Members of the United Nations, in order to contribute to the maintenance of international peace and security, undertake to make available to the Security Council, on its call and in accordance with a special agreement or agreements, armed forces, assistance, and facilities, including rights of passage, necessary for the purpose of maintaining international peace and security.
Such agreement or agreements shall govern the numbers and types of forces, their degree of readiness and general location, and the nature of the facilities and assistance to be provided.
The agreement or agreements shall be negotiated as soon as possible on the initiative of the Security Council. They shall be concluded between the Security Council and Members or between the Security Council and groups of Members and shall be subject to ratification by the signatory states in accordance with their respective constitutional processes.
Article 44
When the Security Council has decided to use force it shall, before calling upon a Member not represented on it to provide armed forces in fulfilment of the obligations assumed under Article 43, invite that Member, if the Member so desires, to participate in the decisions of the Security Council concerning the employment of contingents of that Member's armed forces.
part 2.
Article 45
In order to enable the United Nations to take urgent military measures, Members shall hold immediately available national air-force contingents for combined international enforcement action. The strength and degree of readiness of these contingents and plans for their combined action shall be determined within the limits laid down in the special agreement or agreements referred to in Article 43, by the Security Council with the assistance of the Military Staff Committee.
"Congress could, for example, expressly prohibit the introduction of U.S. ground forces into Libya."
This is already stipulated clearly in the UNSC resolution!
"Congress could establish a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from the conflict, or require explicit authorization beyond a certain time period"
Congress already has this capacity even though like the previous point the UNSC mandate also runs for 90 days a convenient and obvious tip of the hat to the restrictions found in the war powers act. Seriously did Mr Naiman even bother reading the resolution?
This comment by AMeshiea is an example of sophism at work. It tries to hide the reality behind pompous words of partial relevance. What is written above is either half witted or propagandist.
Let us cut through his cloud of obscuring words to the nub of the matter. The war in Libya is blatantly yet another glib contrivance indicating the accelerating slide towards absurdity that the Western powers are choosing to indulge in. While hiding behind multiple sophistic stooges, excuses and lies Western powers have long influenced the death of more people than would otherwise have been the case in Africa and the Middle East, not to mention elsewhere. In the spurious names of Freedom and Democracy and Law now it is getting worse. Entirely gratuitous wars are being promoted as the way to peace. Presently the West loutishly does War is Peace; an ultimate absurdity. They always kill to save those who die. They fight wars the way a glutton consumes.
Dear West, Dear AMeshiea,
Get out of Africa! Go home! Stop impressing your idiocy on others! You are the greatest threat to peace and prosperity because you want it all for yourselves.
You pigs!
Aside from the arguable legalities, what good would it do to consult with a right wing corporate Congress that worships at the feet of the Wall Street Casino and M/I/I complex oligarchy?
Naiman is perpetuating the "911" myth by writing as if the invasion of Afghanistan was in response to the WTC demolition.
The attack on the Taliban was planned long before September of that year.
No he isn't. He is talking about the arguments used by the administration to sell the war, not what the real reasons might be.
A good article with the right spirit, though there are a few inaccurate statements IMO.
The simple fact is that passing 1 more law will not stop the criminals in the White House. It was established a few years back that the Constitution was just a piece of paper, and that much is true.
How is passing 1 more law going to change anything?
The traitors who did not obey the US Constitution did so deliberately, not by accident. This proposed remedy will do nothing.
So too with Obama in Libya--he doesn't give a good goddamn whether the Constitution is violated or not. Though he does not say the words, he believes just like Nixon: if the president does it it's not illegal.
They planned to subvert the Constitution, and they executed their plans.
Obama is a war criminal, and criminals do not follow laws, rules, or Constitutions. I just hope all the liberal Obama groupies finally see what a fraud their candidate is.
donna,
If you cheat in your tax you go to jail and if you commit a crime and found guilty you too go to jail or the gas chamber. I am wondering how come Obama can order assassination of Americans and approve Drone killing and remain free?
Is he above the law or is he the messiah?
hey, sivasm!
the law is not the rule...the law is the enforcement mechanism...
one can have rules about whatever one wants...without a mechanism of enforcing such rules, they may as well not exist...
what you decry, and rightly so, is the American citizen's lack of a mechanism of enforcement to counter the corrupted government's mechanisms of enforcement...
we were led to believe the internal censorship outlined in the Consitution would work...
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...
a countering mechanism must be found...
I don't believe it will be called a Peace Movement, either...
dubet
We need to be creative and somehow lock these criminals for giving us so much pains. How about over a hundred millions mass protests on the streets?
From what I can remember about you people was that George Moron Jr. already had the position of Messiah.....Especially when he invaded Iraq......
But they do love to lie!
Oh, btw, where are those WMD's??????
Oh, you mean like George Moron Jr.!.....Good luck to prosecuting him....It isn't happening!
I know you Reichties are loving this, but, one thing to remember is that Obama didn't invade a country, he went in with the UN approval, there are not going to be any ground troops and it is already being turned over to NATO!!!!
Oh, btw, where are those WMD's ???????
Whyputaname
I am NOT a Reichties. BTW, I used Repug for a Republican. Repug is shorter and easier to remember.
How conveniently you mention UN as a justification for invading Libya. Just as Dubya use WMD. Did you know who are the eight members that control the UN? Further, did you know who have the most WMD?
UN approval? And who owns the UN? Perhaps you have not woken up to the fact that the UN has become an agent of One World Corporate Governement. They even changed the definition of a pandemic so every country would have to buy swine flu vaccine.
NATO should have been gove over 15 years ago. It is a military force with no mission after the USSR went away. It's used as our adjunct military.
What's a Reichties? Followers of Robert Reich?
Contrary to the author's claims, there was no far-reaching Congressional debate prior to the Iraq War resolution. There was a tightly controlled exercise in information management and fear-mongering, headed by John Kerry and supported loudly by Hillary Clinton, both of whom used their authorities, real and assumed to prevent testimony by anit-war figures. That was one reason why Kerry got the DNC nod to go ahead with the 2004 Pres campaign. It was also a big reason he lost, the predictability of which was painfully obvious to everybody except the Democratic leadership. Or perhaps more likely, obvious yet unimportant to the Dem leadership.
I think that it is legally possible for the US to do a quick limited military attack under UN auspices vs. somebody like Ghaddafi, as Ameshia's post states. I think also, Congress should have been brought on board and that the "no-fly zone" should have had stricter rules of engagement, time and space limitations and Congressional oversight. For instance, a real no-fly zone could be established without any surface target attacks. Or be honest about it and call it a "no-go zone", denying the ground and the airspace to Ghaddafi. The zone, could then be limited to a perimeter around Benghazi. Lifting the zone would be contingent on a cease-fire and peace talks. The outcome of those talks would not be subject to US policy or public statments. It would be strictly a Libyan resolution.
As a practical matter though, Congress is essentially brain-dead and paralyzed. And the President is chasing political objectives almost totally unrelated to the lives of the Libyans these attacks are supposed to protect.
Best we can hope for is that Obama gets out quick and slows Ghaddafi down enough to protect some live.
When a president strays so far away from his campaign statements, it becomes very scary, because nobody knows what he'll do next! It's a very simple concept. Another very simple concept: War on 2 fronts is about the maximum a country can sustain. Now we have 3 wars, not counting the war on drugs. Meanwhile Norwegian PhD Johan Gartung, who correctly predicted the downfall of the USSR, is predicting the end of US world hegemony by 2020 at the latest. The USA has gotten out of control, and it's hard to tell if anybody can reign it in again. Meanwhile, ordinary citizens suffer, and for what? Wall street banksters???
US hegomony gone by 2020?
No.
That has already gone for good. Hegemony implies belief and now there is no belief. What we presently have is willful US assertion at the behest of opportunists who use it for their own benefit.
The USA is already only a token country controlled by opportunists with ambitions to use US citizens as a means to the end called profit..
Frankly, I don't trust either the administration or the Congress on much of anything, including declaring war. After what we've seen of undeclared wars over the last 50 years, it would seem wise to require at least a 2/3 or more vote of all representatives and all senators before the president could begin a war. That would probably have avoided Viet Nam, Granada, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and the ongoin but as yet undeclared war in Pakistan. Oh, yes, and the oddly named 'War on Terror' as well.
And where is the recognition of the immediate humanitarian benefit that was accomplished? Being left-leaning myself, and generally against war, what exactly would the "liberal" position be if nothing was done and the media was showing Libyan forces slaughtering their own people? Why is this not imposing a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position upon the President?
I hear people responding with “ya, but we’re not doing anything about what’s happening in other countries besides Libya.” So is that an argument that we SHOULD be doing something in the other countries also, while complaining that we SHOULDN’T be doing anything in Libya?
This situation is not as clear cut as some would pretend it to be. It's real world, and it's MESSY. What we COULD try to do is have a little faith that THIS President is NOT a warmonger. THIS President ended the combat mission in Iraq earlier than Bush OR MCCAIN ever said. Anyone who’s overly quick to complain about President Obama had best take a pause and consider the alternative: President McCain and Vice President Palin.
Perhaps people need to take a step back and consider when it was last they heard about US military personnel dying in Iraq. There is a SERIOUS amnesia problem in the US. The lack of any deaths never makes the news because "not bleeding" doesn't lead in the news business. President Obama is responsible for ending those deaths in Iraq, but I don’t hear anyone making any noise thanking him for hit. Is that fair?
Wouldn't it be better if liberals recognized there were immediate humanitarian benefits and that the liberal position should be "We're going to have a little faith in you Mr. President that this will not be a prolonged engagement, but we will be watching you."
Is this satire or are you for real?
Excellent parody.
This is a parody, yes?
I agree, find it difficult to have faith in Obama or any politician, and will be watching him.
This president has no creditability left. None. Whatsoever. He should be impeached and tried for treason--including members of congress for allowing this to happen. They could have at the very least staged one of their usual dog & pony shows, but they didn't even bother with that minimal act.
Everything this man touches has someone or something that reeks of criminality. He's the most dangerous man to ever occupy the White House, GWB not withstanding. His ever-expanding police state at home and personal-policing efforts overseas using the might of the United States military is outrageous. And to listen to Maddow and her peers only makes it worse.
As the author said, this assault on the war powers of congress is an "extremely grave" act.
Indeed.
Hear, hear....well said. How about putting another unknown character, could be even worst than Obama in the WH and over a hundred millions protesters on the streets that will make a change we believe in?
Vote Palin.
Again I am no Republican, Repug or Reichtie.
One of the goals of this action is to disconnect Congress from war-making. The constitutional issues alone should give war mongering liberals pause. Have "faith"? Is that like faith in "hope and change"?
Obama said "we'll get back to diplomacy". What diplomacy did we try before bombing? Bombing is also a way to show off new weapons.
Ending the "combat mission" in Iraq is ridiculous. We are there, thousands of soldiers are there, (are they still feasting on filet mignon and lobster?). We are running CIA missions, trying to control what ultimately cannot be controlled.
"Humanitarian" intervention is a joke. I remember seening Samantha Powers interviewed on Charlie Rose a few years ago, as an Obama advisor. I was appalled to hear her say sometimes you have to use the military (Sergio Melo came to this conclusion) Who decides what is humanitarian?
Liberals must grasp that this foreign policy of the US is destroying us and everything it touches. I guess the idea that this is OK because her's "our guy" just simply revolts me. This President, as all presidents in the last 100+ years, is owned lock, stock and barrel by the banksters and the power elite who see the US gov't as their instrument through which they can steal everything and anything they want.
This is not Rwanda and, for that matter, a "no-fly" zone in Rwanda would have been a joke. Better to look at Rwanda as a place where the Belgians created a false social structure that favored one group over another and understand that interfering in other people's countries and social institutions is a bad plan.
Look at a map. Libya is ideally positioned to hold a number of major bases for Africom. That is what is happening. Oust Gaddafi, install yet another puppet government, build yet another half-billion-dollar "embassy", build a number of "enduring" military bases and... head south where there are trillions of dollars of untapped natural resources to be stolen from black people.
Did you bother to read the "screaming peice of excrement" by Juan Cole or did you just read the quote above? I am sure that screaming about thie issues, like so many in the echo chamber around here like to do, is much a much better approach.
Nothing much changes around here.
Libya is a lie based war of plunder the same as Iraq.
How do you know, won't you be surprise if this works out......Wouldn't it be interesting Reichtie.....Considering he didn't invade a country, like Moron Jr. did.
Attacking inside a country's border with fighter jets and cruise missiles, destroying materiel and people on the ground is not an invasion.
Check.
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman!"
Kiely
You are so helpful to so many who seem to have amnesia. That's a good one. :-)
what does Libya have that Israel wants? that's the question.
and, this liberal...nay, radical left deplores Obummer's warzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Frankly, it is not possible to have a "calm" discussion with CNN/Fox News zombies that parrot every bit of pro-war propaganda that comes out of the White House and the Pentagon. Such people share the guilt of the crimes being committed against the Libyan people by the US, UK, and French regimes. They are no different than supporters of the Iraq War. And party-hack loyalty to your preferred capitalist political machine is no excuse.
The list of US intervention in foreign countries is so long that you will have to visit this link:
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html.
For each of these intervention there were Americans who supported and Americans who opposed. The trick is that there is always cover for intervention. All of the previous interventions were done for humanitarian purposes. When Truman dropped the bomb on Japan, he did it for humanitarian purposes. Hitler invaded to avert further damage to the German state was the argument then. President Polk invaded Mexico and stole the northern half of Mexico also for arguments similar to those made by the humanitarian interventionist, same with Hawaii, Puerto Rico etc etc, etc.
US or Colonial European national interest/imperial image essentially means the US and its "allies" populations will suffers unless some distant dastardly act were executed. That posture explains the perpetual connivance of the war racketeers and the pretended witlessness of its so called liberal population
For the historic profiteers of war, as long as wars are supportable for one reason or the other, there always shall be war because war is profitable politically and economically. Often time those who profit from war have an incentive to stimulate conditions that pave the way for so called humanitarian intervention. Bona fide proven alcoholics or kleptomaniacs are not supposed to be given keys to the car or the safe
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
This war only proves once again how profoundly right wing and imperialist Americans of both parties really are.
Excellent tour through the logical maze of crucial civic thought. But the author forgot to tell liberal supporters of the O'Bamba administration that the reason they continue to support the USan elite war on people/planet is security for their never-ending ritual of upgrading their 5-ton SUVs on a two-year cycle, and associated plunder/destruction of truly important things. Ahh liberalism!