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Today's Top News
Sub Makers Stress Economic Stimulus Mission
In addition to touting strategic value, manufacturers selling job creation
More than a decade ago, long before President Barack Obama signed the $787 billion economic stimulus package into law, taxpayer money began flowing to another stimulus program in Groton, Conn.
A submarine under construction at Electric Boat in Groton, Conn. Each sub costs about $2.4 billion. (General Dynamics)
Since then, the project has created tens of thousands of high-paying jobs around the nation and helped keep a U.S. industry afloat. But despite its vast economic impact, the end product is often hard to spot as it's usually more than 800 feet under water.
The Virginia-class attack submarine is both an economic machine and a fearsome weapon of war - 377 feet long and armed with cruise missiles, torpedoes and mines. It is capable of lurking off enemy coastlines, eavesdropping on communications and landing Navy SEAL commandos. It also can play the classic attack-sub role by battling enemy ships and submarines.
But even though the program keeps workers from Northampton, Mass., to Tacoma, Wash., busy building components ranging from nuclear reactors to specialty valves, it's not certain that the Obama administration's spending plans will include the accelerated sub-building schedule recently authorized by the Pentagon.
In a speech to a joint session of Congress last month, Obama said he would "reform our defense budget so that we're not paying for Cold War-era weapons systems we don't use."
Where will Congress make the cuts?
He did not identify any particular weapons system he had in mind, but some congressional Democrats who are calling for cutting or slowing military spending also have criticized the sub program. Obama's assessment will become clear next month when he releases his detailed budget plan.
While weapons of war generally are evaluated on their strategic strengths and weaknesses, defense contractors also aim to offer products that are recession-resistant. So it is not surprising that in a year of high unemployment and no-growth defense budgets, makers of the Virginia-class subs and other defense systems are playing up their ability to help restore some buoyancy to the sinking U.S. economy.
At this point, the sub program appears to have a good chance of surviving any cuts in defense spending, but it's not certain advocates can fend off efforts to slow the building schedule.
In December, the Navy signed a five-year, $14 billion contract with General Dynamics Electric Boat and Northrop Grumman for eight Virginia-class subs, in addition to 10 already ordered. Under the deal, each shipyard will produce one sub a year beginning in 2011, a doubling of their current production rate.
Congress still needs to appropriate the money for the additional subs, but most observers expect that to happen.
How the sub program measures up
"The Virginia-class subs are in pretty good shape," said Dov Zakheim, who served as Defense Department comptroller during the Bush administration and is now at the Booz Allen Hamilton consulting firm, which counts General Dynamics Electric Boat among its clients. "The Navy has some problems with some of its other ships" - including the DDG-1000 destroyer and the Littoral Combat Ship - he said, but the Virginia-class sub program appears to be safe from cuts "in part because they have been coming in at budget, if not below, and on time."
Robert Work, a defense budget analyst at the nonpartisan Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, said the Virginia-class subs also stand to benefit from the cost-cutting efforts of the manufacturers.
Both Electric Boat's Groton facility and the Northrop Grumman shipyard in Newport News, Va., "have now gotten a lot of the cost out of the boats," he said. "The Navy said they needed to get it down to $2 billion (per sub) in FY '05 dollars; they've done that."
John Casey, president of General Dynamics Electric Boat in Groton, is continuing to press his argument that the sub makes sense from both the economic and national defense perspectives.
"We can't afford to be complacent," he said at a meeting of sub contractors last week. "We cannot take for granted that Congress will continue to support the program."
Anticipating that critics might seize on Obama's remarks and cast the subs as Cold War artifacts, he fired a pre-emptive shot across the bow.
"'Cold War' and Virginia should never be used in the same sentence," he told msnbc.com. "This platform was designed after the Cold War ended, specifically to deal with the threats we face as a nation today."
But with pressure growing from some congressional Democrats to cut military spending, the program may face challenges when work begins on the fiscal 2010 budget.
Barney Frank seeks cuts
Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., said last week in The Nation magazine that advocates of Pentagon spending "argue ... (that) military spending is important because it provides jobs and boosts the economy. Spending on military hardware does produce some jobs, but it is one of the most inefficient ways to deploy public funds to stimulate the economy."
Frank also indicated that he has the Virginia-class subs in his sights, citing a 2007 report by the Institute for Policy Studies, a left-of-center think tank, that called the vessel "a weapon looking for an enemy."
Lawrence Korb, a defense analyst at the Democratic-leaning Center for American Progress, said the Virginia-class sub is "a very useful" part of the Navy fleet, but "you get down to a question of affordability."
Building one sub a year rather than two, Korb said, would not jeopardize the subs' ability to perform their role in the fleet.
Debating the pace of construction
But Casey, the Electric Boat executive, argued that an increased pace in sub building would be an efficient creator of jobs. And he said slowing the pace would raise the cost per vessel, because purchasing efficiencies come from a faster pace of construction.
"If we only build one per year, the most you're going to get is 30 (subs) in 30 years and you cannot possibly maintain the levels the Navy requires with that math," he said.
About 5,000 of Electric Boat employees work directly on the Virginia program on any given day, but the multiplier effect of those jobs is considerable.
In 2005, after the Pentagon slated the New London submarine base for closure, the Connecticut Department of Economic and Community Development estimated that that the sub base, an affiliated sub school, and Electric Boat together created 31,500 direct and indirect jobs, adding $3.3 billion to the state's economy every year.
Eventually the Base Realignment and Closure Commission decided to keep the base open.
Sub building is its own "Buy America" program. Virtually all of Electric Boat's spending on subcontractors - about 98 percent by dollar value - goes to U.S. firms.
Supplier work on the subs is spread from Northampton, Mass., (Kollmorgen Corp.) to Tacoma, Wash., (Bradken-Atlas Castings) not to mention the main sub building sites in Groton and in Newport News. Each of those congressional districts happens to be represented by a Democratic member of the House of Representatives.
So while Barney Frank and his allies in the Democratic Party see a need for defense cuts, others in the party can be expected to fight to protect the defense jobs in their districts.
Korb, the defense analyst for the Center for American Progress, said cutting or slowing military spending always entails a political struggle. The question that lawmakers should be asking, he said, is, "Is this best way to stimulate the economy if we have a given dollar figure?"
If the "save our jobs" argument isn't persuasive to members of Congress, manufacturers can still fall back on the national security rationale.
China's 'impressive' naval buildup
But just as the jobs numbers are subject to interpretation, experts are divided when it comes to the need for more Virginia-class submarines.
Work, the defense analyst for the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, sees a strong need for more of the vessels.
China "has embarked on an impressive buildup of naval war-fighting capabilities - many of them directly targeting the U.S. fleet," he wrote in a report last month.
"This is the first time since 1890 that the U.S. Navy is faced with the prospect of competing against a potentially hostile naval power possessing a shipbuilding capacity that is equal to, if not superior, to its own."
He elaborated in an interview with msnbc.com, saying that "China is upgrading its submarine fleet very substantially. Many of them can fire anti-ship cruise missiles from under water now. They are far superior to what the Chinese had. They have the capacity to build six or seven a year if they wanted to."
But the 2007 Institute for Institute for Policy Studies report criticized those who are "trying to build-up the People's Republic of China as the new ‘superpower' that will challenge the U.S. As yet there is no credible, consistent evidence supporting this viewpoint."
This task of dealing with the Chinese navy "can be handled quite well" by the existing sub fleet, it argued.
Ebbs and flows in production
Ebbs and flows are part of the natural cycle of sub building, and fighting to keep the New London sub base and the Electric Boat plant alive has become a well-practiced drill for people in southeast Connecticut.
In 1943, at the height of World War II, Electric Boat produced 25 submarines - simpler ones, of course, than today's attack subs. But in 1992, the plant barely survived after the administration of President George H.W. Bush urged the cancellation of the Seawolf sub, the predecessor to the Virginia-class. Eventually three Seawolf subs were built and the shipyard stayed alive.
Given that historic backdrop and the deepening recession, the workers in Groton will be very happy to produce just one Virginia-class sub annually for the next several years.
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27 Comments so far
Show AllDo we need thirty nuclear submarines at 1 billion per? Yes there are thousands of jobs at stake here but job creation might be better sought doing other than building weapons. Especially weaponry that may find little use in twenty first century military needs. Could we capture Osama bin Laden 800 feet under the sea?
"Could we capture Osama bin Laden 800 feet under the sea?"
He'd have to be using one of our state of the art undersea technologies to even get there let alone have us capture him there. Sad that we're stuck with a CIA that's turned him into a monster. Without the CIA, Osama bin Laden would have been nothing of the sorts.
And then there all the coffin makers', and their dependents', positive contributions to GDP to be considered.
busterkikki
It is highly unlikely that we can be safe in this world without dealing with the Middle East in the only way they recognize -- brute strength. We would be foolish to send more ground troops to that area. We can't win unless the use of nuclear weapons is introduced. We are far better to have a couple dozen of the latest nuclear subs, armed to the teeth, ready to put finality to the incompatible demands and desires of that area. The subs can do it. Let's build them and hope we never have to use them. You all recall: Walk softly, but carry a big stick.
I nominate you to sit on the nosecone and serve your country as that missiles guidance system. We gotta cut budget somewhere, I volunteer you to pick up the slack.
George Wanker Bush has developed a business plan and is seriously attempting to put together a neocon punk band called BRUTE STRENGTH. The Wanker on vocals and lead guitar, Alberto Gonzalez: rhythm guitar, Cheesedick Cheney: drums, John Yoo: bass, the heart of the rhythm section. John Ashcroft and Condoleeza Rice: backup vocals, Richard Perle: business manager. Once Chuck Norris becomes the Emperor of Texas and secedes from the Union, BRUTE STRENGTH will become the Beatles and The Rolling Stones of fascist rock as well as its house band, based in Dallas. They will appear non-stop on Fox and CNBC. They will tour the Confederacy to sell-out after sell-out. No matter how bad they are as musicians, how ludicrous and crude their songs, how screeching the vocals, they will have an absolute corner on the market and make millions . . . which is solely the point.
I find it odd that you speak of our involvement in the Middle East as a reason to build billion dollar naval weapons systems. Last I looked the region in question was a desert.
I find it simply sad that you believe that brute force can resolve anything, ever.
That's the whole point, friend. These weapons platforms and systems are making a few people rich, bankrupting our country and NOT making us any safer. You've been fed a line. Had Teddy Roosevelt, the fellow who made that statement about the stick NOT created the big ass navy to intimidate others (defense, my ass) we would not be in the mess we are in. But fine, let's say you are right and we need to be the baddest dude in the valley. Then the valley will be humanity's cemetery and there is no hope for man, the killer ape. The future is a burned out cinder because if you think the guy who is just like you on the other side is going to bend over because you have an inbound coming, you are dreaming. Don't worry though, with enough people like you around the mass suicides from all that quality of living you bring to us all will enable you to have lots of space for your annual pig roast.
We already have enough nuclear subs with enough nuclear missiles that can destroy the world several times over. Plus, the subs are virtually undetectable, so a first strike from someone else cannot destroy them.
Recall that when the French and British nuclear subs recently collided they had 200 nuclear missiles between them. We have way more than that. Better that Groton sub plant make green cars or trains.
Thats where all the good jobs are, military industrial no bid contracts.
The republicreeps have been complaining about the Obama stimulus package. 800 billion
Lets see ,a three trillion dollar dual war.
Bankers and Wall street bailout 600 billion and 120 billion to AIG,that we know of.
Hey Republicreeps, SHUT UP!!!
Have you not lied and stolen enough from hard working Americans only to line the pockets of corporate greedsters and the war machine.
BornFreemen
I am going to NZ. This country is nuts.
Lucky you. I wish I could get out of here too. But you're right; this country is nuts!
I'm staying here in Mississippi still trying to take on the conservatives despite the hard luck. Good luck in NZ though. They better not be expensive like EU.
New Zealand is beautiful, large rainbow trout, lots of sheep, you should feel right at home.....
Ok that was a bit facetious.....Running away solves a problem for you..maybe. The actions of the USA will affect the entire world, New Zealand included. Further, as an American citizen you have an obligation to this nation of your birth.
Captain Nemo where are you? 20,000 leagues under the sea with no need to refuel or come back to base to stock up on supplies. Then put in the invisible bit, and "nobody knows the trouble they've seen. The only draw back was if as a member of crew you didn't like pipe organ music, you were out of luck.
The psychosis is beginning to come full circle. The Nietzchean 'God is dead' rubric is wrong - God is not dead (if you view God as the nature of the creation) but rather the playing field where everything happens.
"'Cold War' and Virginia should never be used in the same sentence," he told msnbc.com. "This platform was designed after the Cold War ended, specifically to deal with the threats we face as a nation today."
The negations in this sentence merit full analysis including precisely what was going on in economic theory / colonial meddling. Read mining and other activity in SA and elsewhere. Promises of great wealth leading to dictatorial repression genocide, and the ever so lovely monoculture mindset.
"Sub building is its own "Buy America" program. Virtually all of Electric Boat's spending on subcontractors - about 98 percent by dollar value - goes to U.S. firms."
Hence the condition of the dollar.
USA - nation of the resource short-circuit, death dealing, paranoid, narcissistic, 'I got mine', sold through MSNBC and its peers.
Cease and desist.
Agreed, Virginia and Cold War should never be used in the same sentence. The threats we deal with as a nation today are directly related to the tail wagging the dog.
"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death."
Dr. Martin Luther King, 4 April, 1967
Dear God,
Can you create more geopolitical instability and turmoil to politically enable the Pentagon to fund more hideous weapons programs so we can feed our children, and teach them how to design more hideous weapons? Make China do something dangerous.
Amen.
China is building hundreds of new coal burners.
Given the power and money of delayers and deniers on both sides of the Pacific we are likely to come down to a sudden realization that global climate catastrophe is not only real, it's here. This realization will be triggered by some enormous, unprecedented disaster that finally makes AGCC undeniable, even to the Exxon- and Phillip Morris-funded reactionary crazies. Then there will be scrambling and finger-pointing and the need of the rich to build diked communities (gated communities are so last week) and refrigerated feedlots will compete with the need of the rest of us to build windmills, drink water and eat beans.
Whichever country is the last to start the necessary, economically-devastating (because we waited so long) crash program to switch to renewables will get blamed for everything, and threats and counterthreats and war, possibly including the use of these criminally insane, wasteful, mind-warping bad investments.
So we better keep building them.
Your prayer has been answered.
...
PS. Military investments, besides all those other problems, are one of the worst investments for creating jobs. Almost any other use of capital creates more jobs per billion dollars.
Submarines are a dead end either way.
Alternative 1. You collect billions of dollars from people, including poor people, divert the money from anything constructive. Then the sub hangs around without purpose under the ocean for decades, employing a few dozen guys in a cramped setting of total monotony. The sub may emit sonar that confuses whales etc.
Alternative 2. You collect billions of dollars from people, including poor people, divert the money from anything constructive. Then the sub hangs around without purpose under the ocean for decades, employing a few dozen guys in a cramped setting of total monotony. The sub may emit sonar that confuses whales etc. Then the sub sends out an underwater nuclear powered missile and blows up a ship from one of our enemies, whomever that may be.
Let Groton Connecticut be a target for re-tooling to produce something useful like subway cars or solar panels.
Joe
The old Soviet economy used to have these factories that built Cast iron bathtubs by the thousands. They had no market for these cast iron bathtubs so once they were manufactured they were shipped to another factory.
There the workers would break the bathtubs down, recycle the metal then send the salvaged iron back to the first factory to turn into cast iron bathtubs again.
It kept thousands of people employed.
The US Military and its billion dollar weapons follows the same logic when they point to the employment such manufacturing creates.
There a giant space someplace in America I saw a google map of. Hundreds upon hundreds of Military Aircraft are parked there wingtip to wingtip. These are aircraft deemed surplus or obsolete.
Talk about pissing money away. This is the TRUTH about capitalism ,militarism and free markets. Banks all but insolvent, a Government that has a 10 trillion dollar debt and climbing by well over a trillion a year for the forseeable future, and billion dollar submarines that serve no purpose.
And should you get sick? Tough it out and borrow an extra blanket from a neighbor in the tent city where you are living. Just be content that those Billion dollar submarines are out there ensuring you never have to speak Pushtun.
It's the Boneyard, in Arizona I think. They're not necessarily obsolete, they're just kept mothballed until they're needed again, then either upgraded, or broken down for spare parts for other aircraft. Consider the B-52...the Air Force is planning to keep it in service for a total of 80 years. Not necessarily a waste of money.
Here in Northern California we have the mothball fleet in Suisun Bay, rows and rows of old navy vessels just awaiting another world war...Seeing the Battleship Iowa moored there is a trip, but generally a lot of rusting hulks. The sturgeon fishing is superb though.
You are so right. And it gets worse. Go to the boneyard and just try to buy one of those old planes for yourself. Forget it. Oh, but the pentagon pays a contractor millions to carefully destroy to unrecognizable bits old F-14s so nobody can sneak over here and get some parts. It's out of control. We don't need any more submarines. Just pay electric boats to make wind turbines instead.
Or better yet, tidal generators.
I suggest congress denote a new class of submarine:
The Kansas Class. This super futuristic, very mean looking fast attack, sharky, killer (have I left any belligerent term out?) will be built in the center of a wheat field and left there. That way the enemies from Mars and Venus will shake in their boots when they see how many submarines we have on those wheat fields. ETs don't attack crazy humans. When they come they'll probably attack some peaceful place like Afghanistan.