BOSTON - U.S. activist networks have shifted into high gear to protest the secretive 700-billion-dollar plan to bail out Wall Street, which they say is unfair to average citizens and a giveaway to banks.
"We're outraged," Gael Murphy, founder of Code Pink, told IPS. "We want to see the people who caused this problem and profited from it, pay for it," said Murphy, echoing the sentiment of many activists, and people in general, according to weekend polls.
The skeletal, three-page plan was fielded Friday by U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Jr. and would grant him the authority to purchase billions in bad debts on behalf of the U.S. public, now held by U.S. and foreign banks.
Paulson and Ben Bernanke, chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, say the U.S. must purchase the debts in order to keep the banking system from certain collapse.
The plan is now in Congress and may be approved as early as Friday, when lawmakers want to adjourn to go home and campaign for the November elections. Reports Monday indicated that lawmakers may alter the plan somewhat to include some oversight of the spending, and restrict bank CEO pay, which can stretch into the hundreds of millions.
Paulson, a former CEO of Goldman Sachs who owns 523.5 million dollars in that company's stock, has said he is opposed to placing limits on bank CEO compensation.
While the lawmakers and finance officials met behind closed doors Monday, the Dow Jones industrial average plummeted 372 points, and the price of oil shot up to 120 dollars per barrel. The Group of Seven finance ministers announced that they would keep a close eye on international markets and intervene as necessary to protect the international banking system.
Paulson's proposal does not describe which companies would benefit from his plan and by how much, and calls for no oversight.
"The lobbyists for the banking community are really out in force trying to get as much as possible for themselves," Dorene Isenberg, an economist and chair of the Economics Department at University of Redlands, in California, told IPS.
Code Pink and other groups organised throughout the weekend via phone, internet and late-night meetings, then hit the ground Monday morning and headed straight for the U.S. Treasury building. They made it there by rush hour.
"Stop Paulson's Plunder," blared just one of the large banners they held in front of the building. "Protect Main Street, not Wall Street," said another.
Members of Code Pink then went up to Capitol Hill, to encourage lawmakers to help homeowners facing foreclosure, cut bank CEO pay and boost the economy for the long term. The activists visited the leading banking lawmakers, Democrats Sen. Chris Dodd and Rep. Barney Frank.
Frank told the group of seven activists that he wants the plan to include protections for homeowners facing foreclosure, and to restrict bank CEO salaries, among other provisions, Murphy said.
Frank, known for his quick whit and sharp tongue, "became quite offended" when the activists explained they were visiting Frank out of concern that the Democrats not give in to pressure from lobbyists and the administration, as they have on other issues, Murphy said.
"'He didn't like that," she said.
On Thursday, it's Wall Street's turn to hear directly from activists, when a large group from Move On, True Majority, Greenpeace, Code Pink, United for Peace and Justice and others will protest in New York City.
Other groups, like The Backbone Campaign, have already organised a petition drive on their website, calls to Congress and a conference call between activists and progressive economists to answer questions about the complex, near-meltdown of the U.S. economy.
"This is a 700-billion-dollar blank cheque for Henry Paulson to use any way he wants," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Centre for Economic and Policy Research, during one such call.
Any bailout should be overseen by a board, not just Paulson, and help should be very targeted to those institutions that absolutely cannot help themselves, and that are necessary to keep the economy active, Baker said. The U.S. should insist that CEO pay be trimmed to 2 million dollars and that companies hand over part of any future profits as payback to taxpayers.
A payback is "a fine idea economically" but politically is very unlikely, Isenberg said.
Isenberg said it's possible that the added 700-billion-dollar debt will drag down the U.S. dollar, depending on how much confidence foreign investors maintain in the U.S. economy.
"It might lead to a further decline, that's truly possible," she said.
According to Doug Henwood, editor of Left Business Observer, the bailout will not shore up the U.S. economy. The economy is fundamentally weak because the average U.S. worker's standard of living shriveled during the past decade, and at the same time the markets are not creating enough good jobs.
Meanwhile, CEO salaries grew to excess and their income taxes were reduced, especially by the George W. Bush administration.
"We can talk about derivatives but there is a fundamental polarisation of income and wealth that contributed to this meltdown," Henwood said. "We need to get the incomes of the middle class and bottom up, by taking from the incomes at the top."
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Show AllMany Americans tuned in to watch the most recent “town hall-style” debate between presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain. My assumptions about politicians did not change much. No matter how direct a question is, politicians of any party cannot give a genuine or spontaneous answer. Instead, we are given pre-written responses that typically don’t answer the question we’re really asking. The reviews of the debate seem to be the same: BORING! The New York Times explained that the debate was “90 minutes of forced cordiality,” and I can’t say I disagree. And the Boston Globe depicted the debate as “mercifully free” of personal attacks. Consequently, the debate was also free of much of the tension that grabs TV viewers’ attention. McCain continued to toot his own horn: he restated the importance of his experience, his “stay the course” stance on the war in Iraq, and his oil drilling policies. Obama proceeded to criticize the Republican economic policies that he believes are to blame for the economic recession. Even after the debate, I think most Americans still have no concept of how the candidates would actually act in the face of a pending economic catastrophe. American needs a sound economic proposal. Obama’s stance on “predatory lending” – effectively sanctioning payday advance lenders – is not a sensible solution to the real economic problems we face.
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When an individual in our society is teetering on financial collapse, they must go through a process that is long and may lead to their ultimate collapse. It's a form of due process in reverse to ensure that that person is deserving of the help and not trying to defraud the system.
No institution should be put above individuals in their treatment and these companies that are crashing with the weight of their fraud need an especially long and glaring process of consideration to determine if the help that two individuals representing their ranks demand will be an action of bail out, or burn out. The desires that a welfare goldmine be given to their own kind to save the world are burning strong, but to prevent total burn out by feeding that desire, the necessary question is what 'help' is needed to save the world from their kind?
This is where a congress, using their power, would circumscribe the corporate bail out demand, to keep it from being a congressional endorsement of total burn out.
This is where a congress would do their sworn duty, which is not to be a bunch of angry cinder bearers cleaning up the ashes of the fire of vanity, greed and depravity, but water bearers, carrying the only antidote to the path of hell America is being driven down.
This circumscription will take time to enact because of a failure to act prudently in the past which has led to an out and out fraudulent burning of epidemic proportions. The consequence of that necessary time will not ever be the dire threat that the Bush administration evidences that we believe, but a rush to do his bidding will pave the way to further guarantees of putting democracy in a dire and precarious position from which extraction will only get more costly. The inherent danger of this continued erosion of our foundations is one that cannot yet be envisioned.
Yes this situation is dire, but it is the threat of democracy that bears consideration not the threat of money markets.
And one simple question may be asked to clear up all confusion that the stench of greed is causing. Do we want wealth in corruption, or wealth in democracy which is the soul of America? America is indeed being tested on the mount of modern day morality and redemption.
The words of Mark 8:36 have never had greater meaning in our time. "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and looses his own soul?"
What will it profit America to profit and loose their own soul?
Just curious as it seems no one else is asking this question...any one know when the president became the legislative branch and congress the executive branch?
Did that happen when congress gave Bush a blank check to declare anything in a time of war?
So he is declaring that the bad guys will be bailed out while the good guys get burned out?
How long before Bush and Bin Laden are partying together?
The financial free market noose is going to be removed from around the neck of the person who brought it on themselves through fraud, deceit and gambling and then it is going to be placed directly around the publics right and left hands instead.
So while we will save the free market from becoming the failed market, we will become unwitting prisoners to our representative surety.
So when it all comes crashing down we will be hung not by the neck for our own economic strangling but by the hands,while the criminal who's neck was saved watches from some safe and distant shore where their golden parachute took them.
yes yes the mother of all swindles is about to go down, and we pray yes we pray that our handlers can guarantee it will not be our necks we risk for others, but only our left and right hands.
"So while we will save the free market from becoming the failed market, we will become unwitting prisoners to our representative surety."
Free market? If this were truly a free market, the banks would be required to suck up their losses as well as reap their profits, when made legally. What "our" government is doing is basically the equivlent of returning a bank robber's stolen money after he is caught because he cannot pay his bills. Banks and the financial markets run not on their own money, but the money of others. They make their money "legitimately" by charging interest on the money (of others) that they loan out. Well, what has happened here is these greedy creeps have taken the money of others and basically gone to Las Vegas to play poker with and lost. What happens to a person who borrows money from someone else (say a loan shark), loses it, and cannot repay it? Well, I'll tell you one thing, he doesn't go running to the nearest IRS office crying about his situation expecting the IRS to give him money to save his hide. Rather, he gets his legs broken by the loan sharks personal collection agency.
I have a suggestion on how to begin to recoup the money that these Wall Street gamblers have taken from their investors (very often illegaly by fraudulent means, then lost by taking risky chances with, in other words...gambling. The FBI should initiate a very thorough investigation on everybody associated with the finance industry, beginning with those who have profitted the most from this scam. When it is determined who was involved, the government should confiscate ALL of their personal assets, including all bank accounts, their houses, cars, jewely, anything of value and apply these funds towards any bailout which may occur. Considering the enormous incomes and bonuses many of these people have, this should go quite a way in aiding the recovery of what has been lost. Then, since the folks involved in this scam will no longer have a place to live or be able to afford food, and due to the fact that fraud is ilegal, they should be imprisoned for life w/o the possibiity of parole. Since there are so many involved, perhaps we can create additional prison space by releasing all persons currently imprisoned on non-violent drug charges. Oh, and since Bu$h and many of his cronies are largely responsible for enabling this whole fiasco in the first place, his personal assets shoud be confiscated as well. Criminal charges won't be necessary due to the fact that he will already (hopefully) be imprisoned (or better) for war crimes, murder, fraud, violation of the Constitution, and treason.
I know, this is a dream. But it woud surely help the current financia woes of Wall Street in addition to discourageing this kind of behavior by others in the future.
Yeah well our corrupted congress, if you can even give them that title even in the negative is in such a state of *@!ing inertia that I don't know what would make them wake the hell up and do their job which I would imagine to be very close to a demand of what you describe above.
Thank you for your excellent thoughts.
Thank you Leea. There is just something terribly wrong when the taxpayers, most of whom have been living paycheck to paycheck, if they even have one, to bail out an industry chock full of criminals (kinda like out "representitive government" who choose to represent their own personal interests above all) have to cough up what little, if any money they have to keep millionaires and billionaires...well, millionaires and billionaires. Those who created the problem in the first place MUST pay for it! In a deceptive trades practice lawsuit, the defendant, if he/she loooses, has to pay up to triple in damages. Perhaps that would fit nicely in this situation. If they can't pay triple damages in $$$, let them think about their greed while sitting in a prison isolation cell for 23 of 24 hours a day AFTER losing every asset they have.
The companies Paulson wants to "bailout" with treasury money should have the CEO's and CFO's and other high executives put up their own personal wealth as collateral.
See how they like the deal, now.
.
PROPOSAL for Scientific Evaluation
Systematic study comparing the Usefulness Factor between:
The Republican Party and
3.7 Cubic Yards of Aerobically Sustained Swine Excrement,
set on fire utilizing a gelled incendiary composed primarily
of benzene and polystyrene, commonly known as napalm-B.
This is actually an excellent study of comparative value because
amazingly - once accomplished – IF the Swine Excrement,
which exhibits the highest level of stench of all dung, can be
theoretically separated from the benzene and polystyrene
incendiary residue at a sub-molecular level utilizing a specially
developed mechanism of a extremely complex design –
THEN the Swine Excrement could be combined with organic
compost, any after a lengthy curing time this compound
could be very effective in fertilizing a small garden, and actually
feed a hungry family suffering from poverty in a developing
world setting.
Of course, the purified Swine Excrement - now patented and
named GREENporcine - would need to be airlifted, at substantial
cost, BUT it would actually create beneficial value to mankind.
On the other hand, it is obviously scientifically non-feasible
at this time to even investigate the future value of the
Republican Party.
.
.....leading to a democratic burn out.
Pretty slick of Paulson, eh? The problem is is that many Americans have little else to lose, so the fear-mongering is far less effective. When everyone else was raving about what a great deal the 401k was, I remained skeptical, and opted for safer investments with less return. Though now even those are in danger (fortunately, I do not have a great deal of money tied up in them; should I use it to buy real gold?).
We have a marvelous opportunity to do nothing and let the criminal paper pushers sink, or proactively go after them. In my view, they have proven that they are not qualified to be the stewards of anyone's accounts. And many should go to jail after being stripped of everything they own. Let's focus on and help the real economy where the production of everyday necessities and services takes place. Let homeowners refinance at the market value of their homes--and make this option available to any homeowner who wants to take advantage of it. As for the banks, protect the depositors, and let them (the banks) fall if they took risks they couldn't cover (including foreign investors), just like the rest of us would have to do.
Better to go ahead and bite the bullet now, then to continue to tumble down the rabbit hole.
i posted this link in another article/thread.
seems like both of the major candidates might be a no-show for the bailout vote: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2008/09/profiles-in-cou.html
there are phone numbers listed and please try calling at least a few of them. i left a message and talked to someone in the mccain camp and also left a message at a feingold number. i got promptly disconnected from the only number available for obama after i heard it was full.
bail out turned burn out.
I was just thinking about Bush's legacy.
1 9-11 on HIS watch
2 he let a major city drown
3 two wars that no one can figure out how to end
4 tax cuts for freinds (haves and have more)
5 and he stole $700,000,000,000.00 on the way out the door
Add to that the American legacy, and the picture will be complete.
I was just thinking about Bush's legacy.
1 9-11 on HIS watch
While America watched....their t.v.
2 he let a major city drown
While America watched....their t.v.
3 two wars that no one can figure out how to end
While America watched....their t.v.
4 tax cuts for freinds (haves and have more)
While America watched...their t.v.
5 and he stole $700,000,000,000.00 on the way out the door
While America watched...their t.v.
Don't forget the shredding of the Constitution, retroactive immunity for telcoms who broke the law, and the pardoning of a convicted felon who just happened to be a friend...while Murica watched TV.
I think the predatory gamblers who have taken over call it M'eureka when they meet with Bush in back rooms to discuss the next step toward total and complete fleecdom.
excuse me, fox and friends, but a ten-year-old could figure out that this is
theft in broad daylight -- in less than a week of this 'crisis', everything i have to purchase to survive is costing me more -- and there's no one around offering me a bailout so i can buy a loaf of bread --
this is beyond 'wake up sheeple' -- this is the end, if the pols don't get that this kind of shizz is just plain unacceptable --
because if this thing goes through, we're not far from living in a concentration camp -- the bankers will deign to float us a loan so we can purchase a can of beans to share -- maybe one per week per household --
sept. 26 is black friday -- come down to wall street and protest
“I think anybody who doesn’t think I’m smart enough to handle the job is underestimating.”
[George W. Bush]
"“I think anybody who doesn’t think I’m smart enough to handle the job is underestimating.”
[George W. Bush]"
I seriously doubt he has finished "My Pet Goat" as of yet. Too many big words.
Paulson, a former CEO of Goldman Sachs who owns 523.5 million dollars in that company's stock, has said he is opposed to placing limits on bank CEO compensation.
-criminals hate shackles too
"This is a 700-billion-dollar blank cheque for Henry Paulson to use any way he wants,"
-hasn't the last 8 yrs been one massive blank check given to Bush by Democrats?
While a number of senators from both parties sought political cover in the face of growing popular opposition to the taxpayer-funded bailout by making populist-sounding declarations, the basic tone was set by Charles Schumer, the Democratic senator from New York who heads the Joint Economic Committee of Congress.
Insisting there was no time to consider the causes of the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression, or investigate the bankers whose actions precipitated the financial disaster, Schumer declared, “We must look forward, not backward.”
“It’s not fair, it’s not right, but that’s the world we live in,” he said. He added, “I want to assure the markets, we will not Christmas tree the bill. We will act and act soon.”
read more:http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/bail-s24.shtml
Thank you Charles Schumer, Democrat, we all know you have our best interests in mind. Right.
As their government declares financial war on them, the public will be forced to go to war with their government.
History repeating it's self again.
I just never dreamed that this development would escalate as it is in America.
I guess a true failure in education and love.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is not up to the job and needs to be replaced now. He has run through the lions share of the money the Federal Reserve had and is now looking for a blank check from working Americans. Ben your fear has taken over and we can no longer forgive you for the errors of Allen Greenspan for now the errors are yours this time and your time has passed.
snydly
GIVE THEM THE $700B....BUT DRAFT RALPH NADER TO ADMINISTER IT.
This administration must not be allowed to coerce congress into rushing their approval of this $700 billion (plus) bailout. These conditions have been developing over time and there are no reasons that such a drastic step must be made without careful investigation and scrutiny. The shady circumstances of this colossal penalty to the taxpayers renders their motives for this coercion highly suspect.
When an individual in our society is teetering on financial collapse, they must go through a process that is long and may lead to their ultimate collapse. It's a form of due process in reverse to ensure that that person is deserving of the help and not trying to defraud the system.
No institution should be put above individuals in their treatment and these companies that are crashing with the weight of their fraud need an especially long and glaring process of consideration to determine if the help that two individuals representing their ranks demand will be an action of bail out, or burn out. The desires that welfare goldmine be given to their own kind to save the world are burning strong, but to prevent total burn out by feeding that desire, the necessary question is what 'help' is needed to save the world from their kind?
This is where a congress, using their power, would circumscribe the corporate bail out demand, to keep it from being a congressional endorsement of total burn out.
This is where a congress would do their sworn duty, which is not to be a bunch of angry cinder bearers cleaning up the ashes of the fire of vanity, greed and depravity, but water bearers, carrying the only antidote to the path of hell America is being driven down.
This circumscription will take time to enact because of a failure to act prudently in the past which has led to an out and out fraudulent burning of epidemic proportions. The consequence of that necessary time will not ever be the dire threat that the Bush administration evidences that we believe, but a rush to do his bidding will pave the way to further guarantees of putting democracy in a dire and precarious position from which extraction will only get more costly. The inherent danger of this continued erosion of our foundations is one that cannot yet be envisioned.
Yes this situation is dire, but it is the threat of democracy that bears consideration not the threat of money markets.
And one simple question may be asked to clear up all confusion that the stench of greed is causing. Do we want wealth in corruption, or wealth in democracy which is the soul of America? America is indeed being tested on the mount of modern day morality and redemption.
The words of Mark 8:36 have never had greater meaning in our time. "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and looses his own soul?"
What will it profit America to profit and loose their own soul?
.
When is the Department of Justice going to charge the thousands of crooks who created the fraudlent mortgages and worthless financial paper????
Find the "white collar" criminals, and put them in jail !!!!!!
We, taxpayers should not have to underwrite these Robber Barons !!!!!!
Send these rich bastards to prison........ASAP
,
While in prison, make them work a menial job, pay them minimum wage, then charge them for all utilities they use, food they eat, and rent. Federal prison guidelines require that prisoners be providedd television. Charge them monthly cable bills. That way, they can see how the rest of much of America lives on a day to day basis.
Damn Wall Street Communists!
Privatize profit, and nationalize failure.
Maybe Paulson should pony up some of that %500 Million he has stashed away?
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Damn Wall Street Communists!
Privatize profit, and nationalize failure.
Maybe Paulson should pony up some of that %500 Million he has stashed away?
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
The real economy is cash starved at the bottom. Exactly what happened in the last Depression with the RFC loaning money and buying stocks with money borrowed from the Fed. Thats where money needs to be directed. Imagine how much would be freed up at the bottom with National Health Insurance. Thats money that gets freed up to pay mortgages, and pay off credit card debt.
The Feds job was to ensure price and market stability. It failed, and has failed repeatedly throughout it's history.
Volcker created the S&L crisis with his support for the Monetary Control Act of 1980 which also allowed the Fed to monetize 3rd world debt (turn the toxic debt into money to bail out the big banks who made these loans). His interest rate increases during the Carter years gave us a terrible recession, although he is today credited by some as beating inflation.
But the inflation was due to oil price hikes and not an overheated economy, and due to the high interest rates which made projects in the real economy more expensive to finance. In the end, it caused many manufacturers to move their operations overseas where the high cost of financing allowed them to offset it with lower labour costs.
Volckers main objective, or at least the result was in making 3rd world nations default on their loans which were variable interest rate loans. This allowed the IMF to strong arm them into opening up their markets and resources. Any big banks holding bad loans got bailed out by the Fed.
Greenspan is the father of the derivative bubble which started following he stock market crash in 1987. The Fed intervened into the market through Greenspans former company, JP Morgan, using the newly created Derivative which proved it's value in manipulating markets (it's likely they caused the crash as well). Greenspan resisted all calls for regulation of Derivatives, which today are known as Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Greenspan refused requests by Congress to intervene in the DOT.Com bubble by increasing margin rates, which the Fed has the sole authority to do. The bubble was being inflated by borrowed money, and the money supply was increasing, rapidly. Margin debt hit 265 billion, up 45% in the 4 months before the bubble was popped.
The Fed bailed out LTCM under Greenspans watch as a reward for their help in bringing down the Russian economy in 1997.
On June 17, 1999, 5 years into an obvious bubble, Greenspan told Congress "Bubbles can only be determined after the fact.... Betting against the markets is precarious at best."(trust the investors, they know what they are doing). The bubble burst in Clintons last year in office in response to Greenspans interest rate increases that began shortly thereafter.
In 2001, when explaining why he did not lower interest rates when it was apparent we were entering a recession as a result of the stock bubble bursting, he said he wanted to make sure the bubble was over with . Remember he said in 1999 he could not determine when a bubble existed or not, but that we should trust the investors.
He also led the support the bipartisan repeal of the Glass Steagall Act in 1999 which led to ENRON and the sub-prime crisis, and refused to intervene in the housing market by tightening credit (you can do this w/o raising interest rates), saying it was a good thing and recommending ARM's when interest rates were at a 50 year low in 2003. Then he started raising interest rates over concerns on inflation that the lie that is CPI did not show much of, knowing full well what this would mean to the housing market bubble which was by then well inflated, and to those who took his advice on ARM's.
He was concerned about deflation to inflate the bubble, then he was concerned about inflation which the lie that is CPI said did not exist. The inflation we had was due to rising oil prices and cartel/monopoly pricing practices in markets w/o significant competition.
Greenspan jumped ship in 2006 allowing Helicopter Ben to be the fall guy. Bens expertise is the Great Depression, his mission is either to keep us out or get us in one. My bet is the latter, but maybe he is just an innocent, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
The Fed is obviously in the business to make bubbles which they pop and their shareholders can profit from (even if some of the little fish get eaten up). Their mandate says otherwise, their job is to help maintain price stability and full employment. The discussion should be about it's demise. When you do the opposite of what your boss asks of you, and get caught, you get fired. We should fire the Fed, not reward their shareholders.
Greenspan of course got knighted for his good work. Sir Bubbles should be sent to Gitmo, as should Paulson, but that won't happen.
Paulson represents Goldman Sachs, and Obama is a wholly owned property of Goldman Sachs, which is his single biggest source of campaign contributions. Obama is a creature of Brzezinski, Soros, and Rockefeller, and without them he has no existence; Obama is an abject Wall Street puppet, an agent of finance capital. McCain is not much different, backed by his own set of crooks (Bloomberg, Kissinger, Shultz, Rothschilds).
In the perfect world
1. Fanny and Freddie would be nationalized as part of a permanent state sector of the US economy, and operated as the public utility that they were intended to be and were until 1968.
2. Glass Steagall would be reinstated.
3. The Fed would be nationalized, but the commercial banks that made up the system would stay privatized. Congress would then create money required for public infrastructure and social welfare, and make low interest loans to key industries (clean renewable energy, small farmers, railroads).
4. Derivatives would be banned, and any debt obligations related to derivatives not recognized.
5. Economic sanctions placed on all tax havens.
6. Usury laws reinstated.
7. Those banks and corporations that are too big to fail should be
broken up into smaller companies under anti-trust laws
8. Fixed Exchange rates need to be agreed on among the major currencies (US, Euro, Yen, RMB)
9. WTO abolished
10 UN security council abolished . Decisions made in general Assembly- 80% required to pass (votes population adjusted).
But you won't find anyone running for President who will do any of this.
Although we might have disagreed on various topics before, MiMiCcS, on this topic we are in complete agreement according to your suggestions.
I would go a bit farther, though, and completely disband the FED, return monetary policy to the US Treasury, print our own money through the US Mint, reinstate disclosure of the M1 Money supply (the Bushies & FED stopped posting in 2005, to hide expansion of the money supply they would later contract as they did preceding the 1929 crash), and start paying the interest to ourselves instead of 12 private banks comprising the FED. These people don't care how high the national debt goes, because the higher it goes the more these 12 PRIVATE banks make in interest/usury. After contracting the money supply, through restricted credit & gleaning the money supply by pocketing the interest, there is never enough cash to retire the national debt.
As long as we have a private consortium of banks controlling our monetary policy America faces perpetual debt. Again...THE FED MUST GO!
There's the long term problem & solution, now the overriding question...How do we accomplish this with a thoroughly rigged/gamed/compromised/corrupt system facing us?
.
MiMiCcS...
What is your opinion of Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader solutions?
http://www.beachwoodreporter.com/politics/nader_predicted_wall_street_me.
Ralph Nader elaborated a 10-point plan to cool off the financial markets meltdown:
1. No bailouts without conditions and reciprocity in the form of stock warrants.
2. No more lobbying for any company that is bailed out.
3. No golden parachutes and get out of jail free cards for guilty executives.
4. No bailouts without public hearings.
5. Reduce the moral hazard in U.S. mortgage markets by introducing covered bonds for the majority of mortgage products as they do in Western Europe. That gives institutions that finance mortgages an incentive to be prudent, because they cannot just unload them and wipe their hands clean of the liability, but are instead on the hook if the homeowner defaults.
6. Maintain neighborhood stability and housing security by passing a law with a sunset clause allowing below median-value homeowners facing foreclosure the right to rent-to-own their homes at fair market value rates.
7. Avoid future housing bubbles by removing implicit government guarantees for new mortgages that exceed thresholds of greater than 15-20 times the annual fair market rent value of the home.
8. Make the Federal Reserve a Cabinet Position, so it is accountable to Congress, as well as making sure all Federal Reserve Bank presidents are appointed by the President and answerable to congress.
9. Reduce conflicts of interest by taking away power for auditor and rating agency selection from companies and placing it in the hands of the SEC to be administered on random assignment.
10. Implement a securities speculation tax, starting with derivatives to deter casino-style capitalism.
.
MiMiCcS,
You've already got the start of a great platform. Let's say we immplement it. Let's start be calling our Congressman. We'll go from there make it a national proposal like the YesWeCanSolveit people are doing for renewable energy. Let's make this topic too radioactive to say no to.
We all pretty much agree, now here's some info as ammo (warning: it's long, but wow!)
On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. The Christian Law Fellowship has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. We can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.
Here's the link to the complete article:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:hxLtAgOauuwJ:www.john-f-kennedy.net/...
I wonder if this could be reason Kennedy was assasinated? Kennedy was a very intelligent man who generally had the benefit of the country in mind rather than follow the status quo, and as a result stepped on a lot of big toes. That tends to be hazardous to ones health, especially when it comes to moniatry interests.
Corporate Welfare at it's "finest." Tell the public it's really good for THEM, then line the pockets of crooked CEO's and their govt pals, and stick taxpayers w/the bill. Next time I hear a corporate creep use the word "capitalism" I have a one word reply to rebut: "BAILOUT." The secrecy of this bill is in itself reason to kill it.
Riki Griswold
Can't seem to get my comments on here. Sorry about that.
but will keep trying
Riki Griswold
One more try.
I am a 71 year old widow. My retirement income comes from investing in !st Trust Deeds.
I lent $150,000 approx 1/2 of my capital)to a 'reputable' builder to do a remodel on his house that had burned He has since let his contractor's license expire.
I did the research on his credit, reputtion and reviewed the appraisal report. He signed a note and First Trust deed to my husband and me. We went through a Mortgage Investment Co. and proper escrow. This was NOT a sub prime loan.
After a year or so, he started sending in his payment late and then not at all. It became necessary to foreclose. He had not finished the project, he did not pay his taxes and he filed bankruptcy. BUT he did use up all the money. Besides the lack of payments on the loan, i had to pick up the back taxes and pay a lawyer to go to the bankruptcy hearing in my behalf. I was left with the partially completed house, a tenant which supposedly was a relative of his, who paid some rent but not all. The tenant left the pace a mess both inside and out. I finally had to evict her.
I now have a house, I can't sell, the roof shingles are falling off, the sheetrock is cracking.... and that's only for starters. By the time of the foreclosure I Had $165000 into it plus taxes, attorney fees and now plus repairs plus building inspections for final and occupancy permit.
WHERE IS MY BAIL-OUT???
So sorry to hear about what happened to you. The system is full of corrupt bastards and the only ones getting the bailed out are the richest people in America. That is who our government, both Dems and Pugs represent, the wealthy.
Just when you think you have seen it all, they surprise you once again. Given the reluctance of Paulson, Bernanke and all the pin striped suits in la-la land blindly and willfully ignoring the many who were sounding alarm bells 2 or more years ago, this further outrage surprises me not! Imagine, a 3 page semi-proposal requesting $700 billion (or more), on top of what they have already committed to with Fannie, Freddie, AIG and the rest, from the good citizens of the U.S. Oh, and by the way, we won't stand for any oversight, requests for details or any restrictions of any kind on how we disperse this $700 billion and we need your (Congress) OK on this, preferably before the weekend - time is tight ya know.....am I dreaming?? This is unbelievable!
The Senate was tough on the gang of four today and I expect the House to be tough tomorrow. I'm confused.....
Are you being sarcastic?
Yup! :)
Quite a resume of de-complishments these Republicons have built for themselves over the past 8 years. Don't hear much bible belt chanting these days along the lines of, "you're either with us or against us". Just crickets.... quite strange, just crickets.
snydly
GIVE 'EM THE $7T-----BUT DRAFT RALPH NADER TO DISTRIBUTE IT!!!!
snydly
GIVE 'EM THE $7T-----BUT DRAFT RALPH NADER TO DISTRIBUTE IT!!!!
snydly
On the Titanic, didn't they keep the poor locked in the lower decks?
Same old same old.
Same hubris.
Same "short" on life boats. Save us and we'll send help back...not!
To paraphrase Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat my SHORTS".
I wonder if this would have happened if Bush/Cheney were impeached? I would guess not because all the bums would have been shaking in their boots had that happened.
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!!!
For those who have yet to read the so-called "bailout plan", here's one source:
http://blog.heritage.org/2008/09/20/text-of-the-bailout-legislation/
Please note Section 8 (the insanity clause). Then turn towards the Southwest and bend at the waist so those in the Northeast who serve CheneyOilCo can have their way at leisure.
"The Party" is set to enable a little surprise for you.
So, two bulls are standing at the top of the Wall Street Hill looking down at all the "cows" spread out below them. The younger bull, stamping his feet in antcipation turns to the older bull and says...
"Come on Ben, let's run down the hill and have our way with a couple stupid cows!"
The older bull snorts, laughs, turns to the impatient younger bull and with a smirk, replies...
Well Henry, how about we just walk down and screw them all?"
"American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage."
Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, Feb. 23 in 2004
-----------
"The United States has the broadest, deepest, most successful housing markets in the world, supported by an interdependent financial services infrastructure."
then Treasury Secretary John Snow, April 7 in 2005
-----------
"I strongly believe that the market's success in making these non-traditional products available is a positive development, not cause for alarm."
Robert Broeksmit, Mortgage Bankers Association, Sept. 20 in 2006
"Some of the credit issues are there, but they're largely contained."
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, March 6, 2007
*** Yeah, give him $700 billion dollars with no strings, lol.
Never mind the socialism smoke screen this is not a market system, this is killer capitalism. The people who function in it couldn't care less what you call it. This is a system controlled by the power elite, as it is in any dicatatorship anywhere on Earth. The lawyers who become politicians are in collusion with them. They work for them in and out of goverment. Their is no surprises here. Paulson had to be a toad and do all the things that toads do before they are the chief toad. But they are still toads thinking of ways to eat maggots who make up the banking and financial system.
The present Wall Street situation underscores the unregulated system called market forces. There are no such things as " The so called "Free Market" it is a euphemism, a fabrication for the rich and powerful. It is a means: to be able to do just as they wish with out regulation. " Greed is the seed and the sickness of most men's souls." It is time for a change in the American system to use the best aspects of all economic systems including those that use some social ideas. This Capitalist sickness called "free market" is free to bankrupt America and the world. This gambling casino must stop! Financial controls are in order and the sooner the better and newly designed global financial sytem based in human need. It is necessary to give abusers life sentences for white-collar crime.
The government picks of the costs of the greed from these "free marketers" and that becomes socialism if any body is watching. Americans pay for it two ways first with exorbitant costs of failing mega- business than the cost of bailing them out when they have become too large and mismanaged by the CEO's as we have seen with Enron and so many others in the banking and saving and loan scandals. At the same time the mergers have cost Americans millions of jobs in terms of so-called efficiency and economies of scale, created as a result of mergers. Not to mention the jobs shipped out of the country as a result of the desire to increase profits using third world labor.
Its time for the American people to get it, the entire system must be changed its all corrupt and it starts with the people you elect! It is they who are in collusion with business. The costs of pay packages of the managers who have no special rights to the amount of money they are given is picked up by the poor working people of the USA. It is time to revamp both the political and economic system of the USA. Time to stop this system with its closed world of the rich out of control and to save the planet and the world-system that is melting down due to all of this uncaring greed.
However,I find it extraordinary that with the entire future of the planet in the balance we have people here talking about electing Nader or McKinney. There is only one candidate in this so-called democracy to put your X next to. Its Obama. Like it or not, -I certainly don't like it, neither party of entrenched power brokers who dealing with the fait of humanity are free from corruption,- Obama can do the least damage and get the most accomplished but given the likes of Pelosi that is a stretch. Like it or not that is all there is because of the way this plutocracy chooses its candidates. Neither of the other two WILL BE ABLE TO GET ANYTHING DONE as thge result of the deadlocjked congres that will continue. This system has been brought low by the fact that this form of government is not a social democracy. It is a Capitalist democracy with a killer form of capitalism that is trying to kill its own people. Actually it is an American Plutocracy.
This system in the USA requires an active supportive congress, that is newly elected with others swept away in a new system. Regardless of the fact that most, if not all, are power brokers dealing with ways to take your money and use it for the advantage of the power elite rather than the public at large it is all there is and the lawyers wnat it to remain so.. At the very least Obama once knew what it was like to be poor. He did the right things to get where he has arrived. Whether his desire for stardom will be measured by the gravity of the office he wishes we will see, but at least he does not live the life of a military establishment figure. ENOUGH OF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, although we get a different version of it with the DNC.
A vote for either Nader or McKinne will help elect Mccain and Palin, the most opportunistic and stupid choice a candidate ever made for the VP spot. McCain left his brains on the floor of his prison cell. There is no good reason because one is a patriot born to an advantaged military family, does it mean they are intelligent. I like both of these people Nader or McKinne but this is not the time for idealism it died with the defeat of Kerry and the election of Bush . Nader helped elect Bush in 2004 and we have the possibility to see what that has accomplished for the world in retrospect. Would the sort of intelligence, of Mccain and Palin any one want to see achieve power, accepting an aging Floridian? I have to question anyone who thinks that the choice of candidates is democratic. If you do your understanding of the American political scene is of someone who lives in the world of the ideal rather than the world of reality
So what you are saying is, yes the system is rigged, the democrats are bought and corrupt, corporations rule both the republicans and the democrats, but...elect democrats anyway, because??? It's less painful having a smiling democrat stab you in the back than a smirking republican stab you in the gut?
I've said this before, I either stay home and don't vote, or I vote Nader. I ain't staying home.
I'm not attempting to put words in Ike's mouth, but what I believe he was implying is not that McKinney or Nader aren't good choices, but rather that they have no chance of being elected realistically. Both Obama and McCain are poor choices at best, but of the two, Obama will likely cause the least damage. A vote for Nader or McKinney is by default a vote for McCain, so although both candidates suck, Obama is the one who sucks the least and it is a fact that one of these two will be the next preznit.
Hey rebelnow,
Are you aware a rebellion is a revolution that failed? A revolt is basically the same. We need a revolution instead, what say? In the vernacular of the hip it's time to "Flip the Script".
I wasn't aware of that, but I'd prefer to think of rebellion as the spark igniting revolution.
Welcome to the Republican's "October Surprise." The minions of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are going along like suckers who get hoodwinked by the same sales hype time and again...and the Republicans are masters of the bait & switch. Now Wall Street is expecting Main Street to bail them out while the scum bags who brought this to pass get away scott free (with some of them, like Phil Gramm, becoming members of a McCain administration). All of this can come to pass if the American public is as stupid as the Republican brain trust think they are.
No doubt, Nate, and this has been planned for a long time. The neo-CONS know Americans are already very suspicious about the 'false flag' attack of 911, and wouldn't stand for another such CIA/Mossad inspired massive loss of life. These neo-CON con men & Zionists (Christian & otherwise) probably had this planned for years.
Why do you think the draconian personal bankruptcy laws were passed? Why did the FED stop publishing the M1 money supply figures in 2005? Why did Bush insist on NSPD-51? Why was habeas corpus suspended? Why were all these markets de-regulated?
For a long time I suspected the 'October Surprise' would be the detonation of a small 'suitcase' nuclear device in a relatively unimportant mid-western city (blamed on Arab 'Islamofascists of course) so as not to cause the financial upheaval one going off in a major financial/governmental/corporate city would. Now I see they did an end run, dropping a big nuke on the American public THROUGH the financial markets. Devious, very devious indeed.
Greed and stupidity will always triumph in this country over moderation, prudence and common sense. IT'S DONE HERE! IT'S OVER! IT'S FINISHED! This country is eating itself . . . autocannibalism. The last part to go will be the penis and the first to go will be the brain.
every american should be thinking:
1. remove the “$700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time.” to just $7t.
2. remove the “Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of
this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and
may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.”
part.
3. change the gift to a loan. leave the damage on the bank books, not
our books. unless, of course, you’re feeling charitable.
we all must pull all our political strings to get this into our rep's head. that is, if you think they give a damn.
If Paulson gets my $2,300 then I want payments made back to me monthly at 29.9% APR compounded daily, and if any of those that received bailouts are late on any payments or bills to any creditor, then the rate goes up to 84.9% until I decide they are no longer in universal default. If they want to declare bankruptcy, then they can only keep $10,000 dollars of their assets and the rest gets redistributed to We The People! No, they can't keep their car, or their plane, or their boats, or their houses, or their fancy clothes. And if they refuse, I'm charging up my lightsaber!
No amount of congressional bailouts will fix the economy in the short-term.
This plan is not the abortion pill where greed raped the system, got the consumer pregnant with debt, and now wants to swallow a pill to lose the baby.
Let's talk about the solid fundamentals that GWB did not mention:
We have a negative savings rate as a nation; this hasn't occurred since the Great Depression.
The rebate checks that our Government offered as a fix-all; had a zero sum gain on the economy.
More than 2 trillion dollars was pumped into the 2003-2004 housing market so that everyone could afford the American dream; we have further to equalize.
The Chinese and Japanese hold a trillion in U.S. debt; that debt is being sold back to us right now.
http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
The National Debt is $10 trillion dollars; the interest represents 10% of its receipts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
Conclusion; I defer to you to decide what's next...
Looked at the holders of US treasury notes...
Those who have increased holding in the past year are not feeling very smart now!
Value of $ will drop like the titanic in mid atlantic.
US courage will show it self by re-energizing this economy based on carbon free ideas. The carbon economy is doomed, we must sacrifice all that are entrenched in it - sorry.
At the end of the day, promises ( by GWB, Wall Street and Politicians in voting chambers ) will not be met by trying to bail out the carbon based economy.
toophat for you!
The "check" is not "blank."
In the upper left corner, it says:
We The Taxpayers
PO Box 911911
United States, America 66666
In the lower right corner is a line; underneath, it says 'Signature."
We The Taxpayers have not - no way and no how - granted our Congressional reps authority to sign any more of our checks until further notice.
"Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong that will be imposed on them."
--Frederick Douglass
We are already going to be taxed on the Stimulus check everyone received, even tho they told us we wouldn't. So it will be nice to have a extra deduction!
FYI, not everyone received a stimulus check. I didn't, for example. But as a consolation, the current financial situation is more stimulation than I'd ever hoped for.
Forgive me, but didnt I see earlier that you had to file bankruptcy to save your house ( I remembvered , because I felt bad, and , because, inOhio --and alot of other states--you lose your house now, if you fiel bankruptcy--the BIDEN bill, for his son Hunter who works for MBNA)
Oh, how much did that stimulus check (what $500-$1000?) help out? We need to stop these gimmicks and start paying people a living wage, provide health care, sick leave, etc.
That would be alot more helpful.
Also, overturn the flawed bankruptch bill!!
Yes I did, but I filed Chapter 13, which allows me to keep the house. Although I will be changing that to Chapter 7 in which they take everything and sell it all, clothes, car, everything and divide it among the creditors.
I had tried to withhold paying income tax, because I didn't want to support the war. So when I filed for bankruptcy, I had to file for the last three years in taxes. When I called about my stimulus check I was told they kept my check and will be mailing me something in writing so I can pay the taxes on the check I never received. Everyone was saying we were not going to be taxed on that money, but now they tell me we are. Just wanted to let everyone know, we are getting screwed again.
I didnt get one, because I dont make enough to pay taxes. Neither did alot of disabled vets.
I see about the Chapt 13. They do this crap all the time. But, they wont do it to Wall St.
I just think that, if teh govt would give the middle class a social safety net, we could get so much more by "pooling" the rebates,than by spending it in the "open mkt"
. (Whats that??)
Sorry about the Chapt.13. Did you try conscientious objector status. I'm not at all sure that it works for this.
"I had tried to withhold paying income tax, because I didn't want to support the war. So when I filed for bankruptcy, I had to file for the last three years in taxes."
Dang! I was going to stop paying my income tax because I didn't want to support welfare people sitting on their asses all day while I worked but I guess I won't now. Sorry about your house but if I went 3 years without paying income tax I would have had enough money to make my house payments. What did you spend all your money on?
If I hadn't paid my taxes in three years, not counting SS. My home would have been paid off.
Snicker, then the IRS would seize your properties for non-payment. And give you a bill for more money...
The gov't was setup as a way of protecting us from some thieves by being bigger thieves. In much the same way that they're killers who don't like competition.
That's the bitch! It was taken out anyway, I just didn't file my 1040. lol
But anyway, it was a knee injury and not being able to work that got me behind on the house. When I did get back my Bartending job had disappeared, the place closed. My office job doesn't quite pay the bills. And I don't know if you are familiar with Insurance in FL, but that bill went up 72.5% along with the property taxes.
I am familiar with it. I love to scuba and tried to move there. I couldnt even GET insurance, esp. on a one level or manufactured home. I started in the Keys, and 'gave up in Ft. Lauderdale".
Yeah!! And Wall St. fatass mfers!! Yeah!!
GO FREE MKT!!
THIS should be under real world
It's as if the fire chief, the fire marshal, and their cohorts went out and lit the forest on fire and as it rages out of control, those same aholes, come before the congress and appear in TV interviews and say things like "the American people are resilient and I have faith that together we will get through this". There is not one iota of apology or sense of responsibility, only some phony aura of bloated self importance, "this situation is dire, but give us everything you have and we can fix it".
No! I hope you drown in a pool of phonycheapsubprimeoverlevereagedmortgagedbackedworthlesssecurities.
The fact that our Congress and this Administration can get this one by us is yet another reason why they keep doing it. If any of us were Paulson and making MILLIONS off the American taxpayer, we would keep doing it too. The fact that we as a people continue to let this pass goes to show we deserve to be walked on.
I have talked with my Republican co-workers(how they remain Republican I don't know) and even they are against this bailout, yet will never voice their concerns. What does it take to wake up the American Public?
The Government is supposed to work for us, is it not?
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
-- George Orwell
(re: how they remain Republican I don't know)
I repeat, from my post above,
My Republican Congressman, Darrell Issa, said..."I am emphatically against it".
What are the Democrats saying?
My congressman, Louis Gohmert-R, is in favor of this and anything else Bu$h wants. Hell, he would pick up Barney's dog messes if it would make Bu$h happy. He has now been elected twice. Of course, his opponent last election had a seven year prison record for robbery. Sheesh!!! Whatta choice.
And what is Issa doing about it? Representatives can say they are for or against anything they want as long as they vote the way they are told.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts."
-- John Keats
This is the final stage of the Neocon coup. Getting complete control of the money and taking it out of the hands of Congress. There is nothing left of our government now but a unitary executive branch with a president that can do anything he wants. The final phase of fascism is ready to pass with the Democrats usual capitulation.
Wha