Delicious
Digg
StumbleUpon
Newsvine
Facebook
Google
Yahoo
TechnoratiThe Russians call World War II "The Great Patriotic War." The current longest of our wars could well be called the same thing. It is a war that originated in the orgy of patriotism ("U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!") that followed the attack on the World Trade Center and Pentagon and has been sustained by the patriotism of those who support it ("Our soldiers are defending American freedom") and false promises of some latter-day prophets ("We are winning the war in Iraq.") It is likely to be revived by the Iranian attack that the McCainites see as their main chance of winning the election.
The president was right in his spontaneous reaction when he first heard of the attack -- "This is war!" The subtext was, "Now I'll be a wartime president and people will forget about Florida and how Antonin Scalia stole the election." The Arabs had killed 3,000 Americans; we had to kill at least that many of them.
The issue was: Which Arabs? The obvious target was Saudi Arabia. Most of the terrorists were from that country, indeed products of the religious education that the country provided for its devout young men. But the Saudi royal family has excellent relations with the American oil companies. So very early in the discussions the neo-cons in the administration began to promote the idea of attacking Iraq. The road to Jerusalem, they argued, is through Baghdad. The administration's neo-cons were (and are) very heavy thinkers. They write great memos. The days when the country was hesitating, some of them found a story about cooperation between al-Qaida and the Iraq government that seemed to legitimate an attack on Iraq. Some of their allies in the media, most notably the Wall Street Journal, insisted that this fable was true.
Much of the literature on the Longest War finds it hard to explain how the decision was made to attack Iraq. Poor Scott McClellan had it part right in his book. The administration, influenced by the memos of the neo-cons, decided that toppling Saddam Hussein would restructure the Middle East to American advantage. But that was a thesis too complicated to sell to the American people. Therefore, the desire for patriotic revenge was used in combination with fear of Iraq's (as it turns out nonexistent) weapons to launch a great patriotic war. The Republican Party continues to rely on this lethal combination to win elections.
National security means kill Arabs. We get our revenge by protecting our children. We start a patriotic war in the name of self-protection and spread patriotic gore by killing Arabs. Neat!
It is not the first patriotic/revenge war on which the country has embarked. Remember the Maine. Remember the Alamo. Remember Fort Sumter. Remember Pearl Harbor. The psychology for whipping up revenge in the name of patriotism has always worked. World War II was a just war, but the mix of patriotism and revenge made it easy for the American military to firebomb out of existence 50 Japanese cities and to destroy a couple more with atom bombs.
Are the American people guilty of a war crime because of the Iraq war? Surely the leaders who cooked up the excuses for the war are. So, too, are the national media that allowed patriotism to silence them. So, too, are those ordinary Americans who almost insisted on some kind of patriotic gore. On this weekend in which we glorify -- with good reason -- our patriotism, we might examine our conscience about what phony patriotism has caused us to do. A third of the American population supported the war and has now changed its mind. It might be wise for such folk to prepare answers to the kinds of questions God might ask about phony patriotism.
Andrew Greeley is a priest in good standing of the Archdiocese of Chicago. for 52 years, a columnist for 40 years, a sociologist for 45 years, a novelist for 28 years, distinguished lecturer at the University of Arizona for 28 , research associate at National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago for 46 years.
© Copyright 2008 Digital Chicago, Inc.
78 Comments so far
Show AllFather Greeley is a good man who has continually spoken out against this monster called the Republican Party of the aughts. We must never forget one of the methods that Bush used to deceive the American people, one of the worst ways, by saying that he was a proud Christian.
Bush invented what I now call the "Neo-Christian." This is a Republican "Christian." You know it by its willingness to kill for "Jesus." This is an entirely new stripe in the theology of American Christianity.
I don't know how many Americans are still Neo-Christians. Anybody who still believes in George Bush is one. I gave up my Christian status as soon as Bush and Rove infiltrated and deceived the Christian church for their own insipid gain. I kept the messages of Christ in my heart, refusing to allow myself to be considered a Christian lest I be mistaken for one of these murderous Neo-Christians.
When I was a child in the 70s, i was surrounded by evangelical Christians whose main purpose in life was to spread the Gospel of Christ. Apparently this pursuit is no longer valued by today's American Neo-Christians. How could this group ever witness again?
"Thomas More": If there are kinds of patriotism besides the phony kind, they're in mighty short supply.
All I see is the kind that brands me a traitor for not supporting the Preznit and his Crusade.
>>I didn't. And I din't mean to give that impression. Of course Canada is multiracial. I sdaid it was the multicultralism that will cause Canada to cease to exist. That 150 years you talked abiout didn't include multiculturalism. I have no idea what Canada has to deal with a province wanting to secede, but I'm sure if it is legally possible they would leave.
You are bouncing all over the place. You claimed at First that the United States of America was Multi racial and no other country could claim that. I pointed out such was not the case pointing to our multi-cuturalims policy..you then said you were not talking about CULTURE but of race.
Now which is it? You now admit we are multi racial. So what makes the United States the greatest again?
As to Canada. Quebec was absorbed ito the British Empire in 1759. This before the United States of America became a country.
They were allowed to KEEP their religion and their language and were not forced to learn English. They have spoke French for longer then the United States of America has existed.
Canada became a dominion in 1867 and has spoke French and English since then.
Thats well over 150 years and we are still here.
>>Man thats a really negative view. (thats a non gender Man) What about the freedoms, the opportunities, the multi-racial culture found nowhere else? Yes?
back to your original quote.
So would you care to expand more on these things you suggest are exclusive to the United States of America?
PK
"Bush used phony patriotism to start (Iraq) war." I have seldom read greater nonsense. It was a "mushroom cloud" that he used as a justification.
This discussion of patriotism is spirited, relevant and "patriotic". It has really stimulated me to think about patriotism. It is a shame that it has been used by this and prior governmental leaders to manipulate public opinion for sometimes or often selfish ends. A local minister made a very good point about what discerning what is portrayed as being "for our own good". Does the power entity stand to gain obscene amounts of money at (others) expense?
I will also add my thoughts. What do we get in return? For example, I'll use our national dependence on oil for the economy. How shall we go about securing our future? The price of gas is a symptom not the ailment. A healthy future for the common good requires approriate means, not pillaging ANWR. I think it is "unpatriotic" to tell the American people that oil drilling is one of the short term solutions to our energy problems. The oil from Alaska's Northern slope is now going to Japan. This was made possible with the 1995 oil export ban repeal. Can we legislate that all oil drilled here stays here today and in hte future? Of course not. This isn't Vegas. So why mislead Americans that spoiling the artic for the profit of hedgers is really our only option? Ot that it is a solution at all. It is the essence of greed. Oil is a world comodity and requires a long term strategy to deal with our dependence on it. Just telling us that a "safer" nation will result,(without a definition that is relevant to our long term survival) is "unpatriotic". I really like bandying about that label. It is very powerful to say such a thing. Evokes all sorts of emotions doesn't it? What did I mean by unpatriotic? Heck, I don't know, but the emotion evoked by such a powerful and undefined label is manipulative. I think we ought to forget that word and do what is right as best we can for the common good, as best we can after deliberations from a variety of opinions.
greenerthanthou July 3rd, 2008 11:41 am
I think that's the nicest compliment I've had this year. What a very kind and generous thing to say.
With gratitude
Pax
I sure should have used spell checker on that....sorry.
skippyagogo41 July 3rd, 2008 12:22 pm
I've been those same places and yes their quality of life is very good. Would they do as good if they had to deal with 300 million people of all races. I doubt it. Yep Zimbabwe and many, many others won't do, they'd move here in a heartbeat.
So we'll just agree to disagree.
tailcap July 3rd, 2008 11:30 am
I'll just say you think a lot more of the UN than I do. If there was anybody worse than GWB and his boys they are sitting in NY at the UN.
GwNorth July 3rd, 2008 11:00 am
"Of course Canada is Multi_racial. Where did you get the idea they were not?"
I didn't. And I din't mean to give that impression. Of course Canada is multiracial. I sdaid it was the multicultralism that will cause Canada to cease to exist. That 150 years you talked abiout didn't include multiculturalism. I have no idea what Canada has to deal with a province wanting to secede, but I'm sure if it is legally possible they would leave.
Now what happened in your civil war?
We finally won it.
I frankly don't see what any of that part of history hass to bdo with now. What about all the terrible things done in Canada. Do they bear on what you do now? Of course not except as historical perspective.
corvo July 3rd, 2008 1:46 pm
Phony patriotism? Is there any other kind?
Yes sir, there are many other kinds.
Phony patriotism? Is there any other kind?
Here is an article describing a theory of the collapse of WTC7 in the peer reviewed Structure Magazine, a professional journal sppecifically geared towards the Structural Engineerin comminity:
http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf
"one book answers a lot of those 'debunked' questions."
You are confused. *You* made statements. Those statements have been debunked. There were no "questions". The book you mentioned doesn't address the statements.
"And the 9/11 Commission NEVER bothered to answer WHY WTC7 collapsed "
You are confused again, this was charged to the NIST to make a determination. The firefighters on the scene expected a collapse well before it did, which is why no one was killed. And *no one* has shown that said collapse was into it's own footprint as you claim.
"Every structural engineer who has examined that collapse has said that there is no way the official scenario could be responsible for that kind of total building failure."
Name a single one please, who actually practices in the field.
"me how the air defense system which worked flawlessly for 30 years failed on that particular day, "
How can I respond to this claim when you provide no evidence? Do that first.
______________ J _ A _ K _ E ______________
Is ____ 9 _ ! _ ! ___ B _ U _ N _ K ____
No more need be said,
__ his bunksterism
__ is renown.
To FrederickJohnson: though I'm from the old school, I'm not particularly offended by the occasional obscenity. However, when I see posts like yours (regardless of whether or not I generally agree with what I think they are trying to say), I think of the contributor as someone who is too lazy to make a cogent argument. If you understood human nature a bit better, you would appreciate that cussing and swearing at people, or about them, is the least likely way you could ever get them to pay attention to you, let alone bring them around to your point of view. Perhaps learning expand your vocabulary might also help you put ideas together in ways that could convince others. Support like yours devalues the ability of Nader to influence the general electorate or even to have the Democratic Party listen to or adopt his better ideas. And I cannot imagine how you expect your elected representatives to ever, listen to you – that is, if you ever bother to contact them.
Thomas More
Where have you been thats a better country with better people?
I live in Canada, and can name a number of countries that I've visited where the quality of life was better than what I witnessed when I visited the States. Those countries include Australia, New Zealand, Holland, England, Italy, Germany and France.
In Every country I've visited the people are mostly the same, that includes the states by the way, they have the exact same right to criticise their peers, they put their pants on one leg at a time, they eat...
The notion that the states is the 'greatest country on earth' is not supported by any evidence that that claim is accurate.
Great by measure of personal freedoms? Those freedoms exist in each of the countries I've mentioned, and exist in many others I've not talked about.
Great by measure of health care? Not a chance.
Great by measure of its economy? How long will it take to pay off the national debt of the USA, and are any politicians even thinking of how to accomplish that goal? Some may argue that the debt is a good thing, or not to be worried about. They are very wrong, by not dealing with the money owed in a reasonable manner creates a real risk that the 'greatest economy' is nothing more than a potempkin village, or a con.
Great by measure of its military power? For now it is, sort of... The debt that's been created to pay for the military is staggering, yet not one pol is saying that taxes must be raised to pay for it. Military Power is the most fleeting of powers. It takes one development to render your fleets impotent - a historical example is the Ironclad warship. Who's to say that some other country won't develop a better weapon, or what might happen in the future. Don't forget that up until 1918 it was the UK that had the 'greatest' military on earth, that didn't help them much when it came to the consequences of the 'great depression' and the debt owed from fighting a pointless war.
So, I ask again. Great in comparison to what? I also apologise for comparing the usa to zimbabwe, that was way too snarky.
______________ S I O U X R O S E ______________
stated July 2nd at 6:20 pm, very powerfully, where our nation's malaise come from:
"How then to reconcile the teachings of JESUS which were totally about forgiveness, peace, compassion and NOT seeking retribution, with the LURE of revenge that apparently has worked like an effective hook every time the military-industrial complex and its pawns decide the time is ripe for war?
THIS is the disease that the American consciousness MUST transcend. Every time I hear the National Anthem, particularly "and the rockets red glare THE BOMBS BURSTING in air," I want to vomit. Enough! Enough glorification of militarism, might, vengeance, ego, primitive states of me-first and MARS RULES!"
This spiritual turmoil is the ageless conflict between what we do know through our moral compass is "right and good", and what our survival-mode EGO "insanity" constantly feeds into our collective and individual consciousnesses -- about what is "righteous and justified".
We are being _ P L A Y E D _ ( neo_C O N N E D ) by manipulation of our EGO's hardwired urge for patriotism and the survival demands to submit to authoritarian direction we perceive that we've "been attacked".
The problem is, that it is the neoCON-sters that have perpetrated the attack, and the "easy enemy" they serve up is the BIG "red herring" that we've all too often swallowed -- "hook, line, sinker," and rod & reel ( too ).
_______ W E __ N E E D __ T O _______
(1.) UN-NAIL our errant associations
(2.) LEARN how the monkey trap works
, and where the "release" is.
(3.) Advance our SPIRITUAL AWAKENING ( both of above)
Namaste « Presence »
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King
Patriotism dulls the senses. In the name of God and country it allows people to do things that are contrary to their best interests or in fact the interests of their nation as a whole.
Take WW1 as example. What was it all about? It was certainly not freedom and liberty. There was no rational reason for thsoe countries to go to war.
The hundreds of thousands that went over the top and were machine gunned down into the mud had no real understanding as to what it was all about. They were expendable tools towards little purpose. It was all a metagame as to what Countries and companies would control which resources.
Like religion, the powers that be manipulate the people with calls to "Patriotism" to advance their own agenda, one that usually has little to do with bettering the lot of a countries citizens.
Patriotism is just conforming to those with the power. It is deferring individual choice to another and is more about enslavement then freedom.
George Bernard Shaw said, (I am paraphrasing) "Patriotism is the belief that your country is the best in the world simply because you were born there"
That said, I enjoy Thomas More and his reasonable style of discourse. Please don't go.
I love Rev. Greeley's posts, and I agree whole-heartedly with this one. I find it appalling the way my fellow Americans assuage their consciences in the killing of 1.3 million innocent souls with a patriotic fervor. However, I wish that progressive writers like Rev. Greeley would cease accepting the drivel that the Arab world was responsible for what happened Sept 11. The terrorists that knocked down the world trade center and attacked the Pentagon have been firmly entrenched in the White House for almost 8 years now. 9/11 wasn't so much an act of terrorism as it was a gambit for political manipulation. And blind, insane questioning of patriotism - an 'ism' I don't think really exists - was used to drown out anyone who dared question the corporate view of the crime.
Ranked by the UN for quality of life:
1. Iceland
2. Norway
3. Australia
4. Canada
5. Ireland... Iceland in 7th place, US 8th place, Finland 13th, France 16th, and Denmark, 17th.
The worst countries in which to live are all in Africa, according to the UN report. All 23 nations at the bottom of the list were African, with war-torn Sierra Leone in last place.
JAKE NEWTON: The 911 "debunking" data went to over 900 postings a month ago.
All human beings carry blindspots. I think I understand my own. And each of us has the tendency to get stuck in our own paradigm, unless and until some form of epiphany alters our "altitude."
Some people (like you and Mr. More) are apparently authoritarian BY nature, thus you concede TO authority a respect that is not often earned or due. Our government has a history of lying to its people in the interest of starting wars. Our government of late has been essentially taken over, silent-coup style, by a band of thieves who have not an iota of respect for life.
Like many on CD I do not subscribe to a blind patriotism that allots to America an impunity based on its "quintessential goodness." This is impossible given the historical record: Vietnam and Iraq HIGH on the current list of willful atrocity-making. The same actions taken on by our alleged enemies would be defined as state terrorism. Only those who can step outside their "nationalism" can see the Truth which is no respecter of persons, nor nations.
Jakenewton - one book answers a lot of those 'debunked' questions.
Mike Ruppert's 'Crossing the Rubicon'.
And the 9/11 Commission NEVER bothered to answer WHY WTC7 collapsed without any apparent cause. And don't say the *minor* office fire/emergency generator fuel tanks were responsible. Every structural engineer who has examined that collapse has said that there is no way the official scenario could be responsible for that kind of total building failure.
And please, oh wise master, tell me how the air defense system which worked flawlessly for 30 years failed on that particular day, the very same day that NORAD was conducting massive, multiple air defense exercises? Tell me, how did the '19 Arab high-jackers' do that?
Patriotism is phony. Anyone who would give anything more than a general goodwill to an amorphous and slightly dangerous group (nation-states) is crazy.
Patriotism is a psychological tool designed to transfer feelings that we naturally share with the ones closest to us to a larger group. The problem is that, because this diffusion doesn't happen naturally, propaganda and manipulation have to occur to make that happen. We will ALWAYS be lied to in order to create this artificial bond.
Again, a general goodwill and a mind to be peaceable with the commonweal is perfectly beautiful and natural. If we had a geographical area filled with peaceable, kind folk, you wouldn't have to force patriotism. We'd find ways to bond with each other.
Patriotism reminds me of that verse in the Tao Te Ching, "...The Wise do not force virtue on others, thus they are able to accomplish their tasks. The ordinary person who uses force, will find that they accomplish nothing.
The kind person acts from the heart, and accomplishes a multitude of things. The righteous person acts out of pity, yet leaves many things undone. The moral person will act out of duty, and when no one will respond will roll up his sleeves and uses force..." Patriotism is patent manipulation and psychological force.
frank1569 July 2nd, 2008 1:49 pm - - "Wonder which countries hold the 2 through 10 spots? And, like, what does #3 chant "We live in the third greatest country on Earth!?""
Canada might be number 3, or in the top ten, or maybe not. We don't know - different metrics give different results. We don't chant. We want to improve (except the Albertans). Not being #1 seriously reduces the risk that we will bankrupt ourselves trying to keep on being #1...
>>I said multiracial not multicultural. Yes, Canada does have an official policy of multiculturalism and it will split the country apart.
Of course Canada is Multi_racial. Where did you get the idea they were not?
To use your own example of Canadians headed south, it was Black Americans headed north to escape slavery.
Is there racism here? Certainly but there is not a record of a single lynching ever happening in Canada.
We have no records of hundreds of blacks killed in a single day because of a race riot.
As to the country splitting apart? They have been claiming this would happen for well over 100 years. Now what happened in your civil war?
If people in Quebec do wish to go their own way, I hope we do not reort to slaughtering them to keep them in the dominion.
Sure the war was started by the use of phony patriotism, but strangely absent from the article is any mention of why the war was started in the first place. The war was started in order to make Iraq a colony for the extraction of its precious oil and to dominate and lord over the region.
Both the Republicans and their erstwhile "opponents" are in full agreement with these goals. Sen. Obama voted in favor of funding the war through 2009 in order to avoid the embarrassing specter of it coming up during the election again. This in spite of the fact that the hypocrite Obama postures as being the "anti-war" candidate.
Obama claimed to have stopped wearing his patriotic flag lapel pin as a protest against phony patriotism, but has resumed wearing it as of late.
Words do not need to match deeds in order for a good number of Democrats to embrace him. Lesseroftwoevilism.
"i get the feeling if Jake Newton ... *snip* "
The challenge I left for Galen is open to you or anyone else.
Stuart July 2nd, 2008 7:29 pm
Then I guess I'm a scoundrel because I love my country.
skippyagogo41 July 2nd, 2008 5:52 pm
In comparison to any other country in the world. I haven't been anywhere with more freedoms or more opportunities. Where have you been thats a better country with better people?
GwNorth July 3rd, 2008 1:56 am
"No where else? Canada is more Multi Cultural then is the United States. We have a greater percentage of foreign born Citizens then does America. We have an official policy of Multi Culturalism."
I said multiracial not multicultural. Yes, Canada does have an official policy of multiculturalism and it will split the country apart. That is not an admirable policy. Popular with the hard left I know but I'm a liberal. A lot more Canadians are coming south for citizenship than going north. That said, Canada has been a great place. I've loved going there. But its changing fast.
DiabloRojo July 3rd, 2008 7:51 am
Now I'm hating? You are a fool.
Nietzsche July 3rd, 2008 9:08 am
Good point, but you have to be secure, free and unfettered to have the privilege to explore that inner self.
bobpudge July 3rd, 2008 9:18 am
Now I'm self adoring? Geeezzz I'm a pretty bad fella. Thats an absurd definition of Patriotism, just as setting up strawman scenarios as many of those above.
If you are not Patriotic, which simply means you love your country, you will defend her, help her when she has problems, correct her when she gets off track, then what are you.
I'd say a few of you should look inside yourselves and see . And there is no doubt in my mind who the children are here folks. But I'd be glad to shove off if I'm among a group that wants to destroy America, that sits around carping but never does anything, that criticizes people that love our country and put forth absurd conspiracy theories.
Just speak up.
i get the feeling if Jake Newton had been Isaac Newton sitting under that famed apple tree, he still would have denied GRAVITY asserting.
DMIA: I hope you're right. There are a lot of angry people, the same mob that have always been amenable to the elite's strategy of "divide and conquer" who think a Christian Theocratic nation is the answer! Me, as a believer in reincarnation, I can almost still smell the stench of human flesh lit on fire to satisfy the element of vengeance so powerfully represented by and through patriarchal religions.
BRAITHWA: Gracias! Always appreciate the feedback.
Every war is justified by patriotism. Here's a quote from Goebbels on the subject.
"It is natural for the common people to not want war but, after all, it is a country's leaders who determine policy and it is an easy matter to convince the people. Whether they have a voice or not, the people can always be made to do what their rulers wish. It's easy. All you have to do is tell them they are under attack and condemn the pacifists for their lack of patriotism and for exposing their country to danger". It was Goering the Nazi who said this in 1945, not George Bush.
I cut and pasted this from an interesting article. If you want to read it:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6481.htm
Why does jakenewton only show up when people point out that 9-11 was an inside job?
Patriotism is, at its core, self-adoration. The pride and arrogance are readily apparent: the inane chants "USA, USA;" the baseless claim "this is the greatest nation on earth;" the pseudo-issues of flag-burning, the pledge of allegiance, lapel pins, the most "patriotic" candidate; the myths reinforced in all spheres of public life ("our troops are fighting for our freedom"); and, more ominously, the cowering in the face of patriotic vitriol on the part of the media and Congress. Unfortunately, even when we begin to see through the cultural conditioning, we are often reluctant to speak up when presented with opportunities to let others know we don't go along with it all. All of this paves the way for cynical politicians to easily gain the support of much of the public, either explicitly or implicitly, for the violence and oppression conducted by the US throughout the world. We are all too often willing to send others off to commit violence in "our" name. The false idols of nationalism and militarism – and the pride and violence they betray – are clearly contrary to the Gospel of humility, forgiveness and love.
Yes Thomas, but "Uplifting illusion is dearer to us than a host of truths".----Pushkin
We dummies think reality is a bore because we don't look past the surface. There is a whole universe inside each of us just waiting to be explored. "For a cap and bells our lives we pay, bubbles we buy with a whole soul's tasking. It is heaven alone that is given away. God himself may be had for the asking. No price is set on the lavish summer. June may be had by the poorest commer"----James Russell Lowell
Thomas More
In re: "...It was written to celebrate that though under assult (sic) our freedom was still intact. That as long as it flies we will be free. I hate that you see it as a celebration of war, it isn't, truly it isn't.
It's a shame when people, (like yourself) having reached the stage of adulthood, aren't able to separate fantasy from reality.
Perhaps your "hate" is really fear of the truth; that Siouxrose ripped the veneer away from another of the USA's cherished pseudo-patriotic fairy tales, i.e, "founding fathers,' `democracy,' `liberty,' ` justice or all,' et al).
FYI: Francis Scott Key never actually saw any bombs bursting from any part of the sky, or a flag waving from Ft. McHenry. His entire account was a piece of fiction. There's also suspicion form some quarters that Key, a scion of wealth and prominent member of Baltimore's posh society, had an avaricious and greedy motive attached to writing that poem (land speculation vis a vis British invasion).
Same with "dissent".
"Doubting the President is NOT unpatriotic - it is smart."
Not just by itself, it must be well informed.
Got to handed it to the Americans: very patriotic...and Bush and his henchmen have known how to take advantage of this. Doubting the President is NOT unpatriotic - it is smart.
History is worth learning, and repeating to the ignorant. Russia and the USSR were invaded in WW2, but their entry into that war was their invasion of Poland. Pearl Harbor was partially an inside job, deliberately incited by the FDR administration and the US military, with the US commanders expecting the attack but refusing to defend against it until the bombs started falling. The Star Spangled Banner makes me cringe, because the reason the US was invaded in Louisiana, DC, and Maryland was in retaliation for the US invasion of British Canada. And of course, 9/11 happened after years of US killing of Arabs by the hundreds of thousands. (And for jakenewton, there is a lot evidence that the 9/11 attacks were at least partially an inside job, much of which has not been debunked. There is no evidence it did not have inside help, and the Bush administration has always acted as if it aided the attacks.)
US participation in war has rarely been for revenge; it has been because someone profits financially from it. The lust for revenge is a tool used to prod an unwilling nation to war, not the actual impetus itself.
>>Man thats a really negative view. (thats a non gender Man) What about the freedoms, the opportunities, the multi-racial culture found nowhere else? Yes?
No where else? Canada is more Multi Cultural then is the United States. We have a greater percentage of foreign born Citizens then does America. We have an official policy of Multi Culturalism.
Privacy protections are greater more social mobility as per the OECD.(one of Bushes own officals complained thta Canada soft on terror because they care too much about Citizens rights) While your freedom of Speech might be stronger (We have those silly hate crime laws) I believe our courts still give better protections when dealing with habeus Corpus, the notion of "illegal Combatants" and the like.
Those kangaroo courts set up at Gitmo would not fly well up here, nor would torture. A Corporation is not considered a person.
We have 30,000 in prison compared to yoru 2.3 milllion. less poverty. We dont go to war every 5 years or back coups in other countries. We are free from having to rely on despotic states to sell us Oil...We have Universal health care coverage which frees us to quit a job and improve our careers without having to worry about getting sick.
Add it all up and I think we have plenty more on the Freedom/opportunity/multi cultural sides.
With all that I hardly think we are the greatest Country on earth. We have plenty of issues all our own making that need dealing with. Proclaiming oneself the greatest Country on earth is a losers game. It perpetuates mediocrity.
Jacob, do you really believe that 75% of the American public wanted U.S. troops to bomb/attack another country? Perhaps 75% of the politicos that "represented" voters did but certainly not 75% of the American public . 95% of the people I associate with smelled a rat around the time of the Florida recount.
Galen, of course '19 Arab high-jackers' did not bring down those buildings themselves but you don't have to pin your hopes on being Christian like on whether or not Andrew Greeley can prove it. A little spiritual practice makes the people around you seem more like a gift and in turn you are a gift. Prayer for me is one tool. I'm praying these days for those elected politicos to have the courage (testes) to do the right thing and act upon what our founding fathers would have done with the clowns disgracing this country.
A taste of real Patriotism will again be displayed this friday at the 4th of July Parade in Round Pond Maine where everyone is fair game.
Galen, all of those points you have written have been debunked years ago yet you ignore those debunking arguments. Please substantiate each of those claims, or address the debunking arguments.
"The obvious target was Saudi Arabia."
Except that the Saudi Government wasn't involved.
I enjoyed your post, Siouxrose.
"Much of the literature on the Longest War finds it hard to explain how the decision was made to attack Iraq."
That is because there is something missing. Something that they may not write about, and
are forced to hedge around. Oil is not the only reason for the attack on Iraq, and it will play only a small part in the reasons for an attack on Iran. Watch the following video, and you will come to understand 50% of the reason why Iraq
was attacked, and 80% of the reason why Iran may be attacked:-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98
While this is a needed discourse on the path that the US has taken for the last 8 years, Rev. Greely still promotes the official US government myth that '19 arabs committed 9/11'.
Just ask yourself this, Mr. Greely; How did '19 Arab high-jackers' disable the entire North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) response system? How did '19 Arab high-jackers' evacuate all but $2 million dollars in solid gold out of the World Trade Center on that day?
How did '19 Arab high-jackers' get two steel framed buildings, that were SPECIFICALLY designed to withstand airliner impacts, to collapse due to structural fires, an event that has never happened before or since? How did '19 Arab high-jackers' get WTC Building 7 to collapse without significant damage into it's own footprint?
Tell me that Mr. Greely, and I might just think about the possibility of becoming Christian...
Siouxrose is absolutely correct about the disconnect between the religion (Christianity) that most of us claim to practice and our actual behavior and attitude toward war. Perfect example is George Bush himself. Bush is a United Methodist, same as me. Bush has absolutely ignored most of the social principles of the United Methodist Church. Earlier in his presidency, the Bishops of the UMC met with him to try to get him to see the error of his ways. Obviously, he didn't listen or care.
The good news is that I've heard the right wing Evangelical Christian movement that has been basically running the government for the last 8 years is running out of steam. McCain isn't particularly sucking up to the Bible thumpers, and the Bible thumpers definitely do not like McCain. It's a codependency thing. The GOP can't survive without the evangelicals and vice versa. Rejoice!
Obama on the other hand is talking with "left" wing Christians as well as Jewish and Muslim leaders. It's about time. Thank God for Obama.
75% of the American public supported the invasion of Iraq in 2003, and only about 25% could find Iraq on a map. Is there a correlation in there somewhere?
Let's just say the idiots are running the show on every level.
And they accuse Bush of being dumb!
Andrew Greeley is right - - and so is Vincent Bugliosi (re: "The Prosecution of George W. Bush For Murder"), and there is no place for false patriotism and calls for all kinds of flag waving and flag lapel pin wearing until the leadership of our country begins to actually begin to act in respectable ways - - we need a SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE, and not just a silly bunch of simplistic platitudes!
To quote Ambrose Bierce:
"In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first".
"I think priests who do not express opinions on political (moral) issues are not doing their job."
I believe that when a priest or rabbi or minister becomes involved in politics it too easy for people to confuse their views with Church views and positions.
which added to your observations about politicians leads us to....
"What they should not do is mix the two together."
Which means an atheist and a sometimes Catholic are in full agreement.
hedology July 2nd, 2008 6:19 pm
Man thats a really negative view. (thats a non gender Man) What about the freedoms, the opportunities, the multi-racial culture found nowhere else? Yes?
Siouxrose July 2nd, 2008 6:20 pm
"Every time I hear the National Anthem, particularly "and the rockets red glare THE BOMBS BURSTING in air," I want to vomit. Enough! Enough glorification of militarism, might, vengeance, ego, primitive states of me-first and MARS RULES!"
Gosh Siouxrose, I don't see that at all. Thats not what it means, at least to me. It was written to celebrate the fact that though under assult our freedom was still intact. That as long as it flies we will be free.
I hate that you see it as a celebration of war. it isn't, truly it isn't.
GREELEY says, "It is not the first patriotic/revenge war on which the country has embarked. Remember the Maine. Remember the Alamo. Remember Fort Sumter. Remember Pearl Harbor. The psychology for whipping up revenge in the name of patriotism has always worked."
I think this is the crux of the issue. Many times contributors to CD indicate that they blame the American people for the policies of their not exactly elected leaders, and I have often come to the defense of the public given the fact it's responding to a massive dis-information campaign fueled by a bought and paid for sycophantic media. BUT... then there is this issue of revenge. Recent polls suggest that ours is a very religious country. How then to reconcile the teachings of JESUS which were totally about forgiveness, peace, compassion and NOT seeking retribution, with the LURE of revenge that apparently has worked like an effective hook every time the military-industrial complex and its pawns decide the time is ripe for war?
THIS is the disease that the American consciousness MUST transcend. Every time I hear the National Anthem, particularly "and the rockets red glare THE BOMBS BURSTING in air," I want to vomit. Enough! Enough glorification of militarism, might, vengeance, ego, primitive states of me-first and MARS RULES! No nation is immune to the law of karma, and the boomerang is headed back.
KANE JEEVES: Please do not lump astrology in with those other entities. Since when have TRUE adepts in MY field ever done anything that HARMS mankind? We ask people to look up higher for meaning, to recognize a plan that links together what logic alone cannot recognize. It's cosmic poetry, sir...
The US of A may be the greatest country on earth currently. That is ,it has the access to most resources, consuming the most non-renewable resources per person, largest number of nuclear weapons, biggest and most numerous military bases all over the world, largest proportion of people imprisoned in its own country. It has the most number of foreigners imprisoned in foreign countries with no legal rights. It has the media with the hugest lies.
I would wish that being the greatest country with all these attributes makes its inhabitants the greatest people on earth, but it seems to have made them the worst people on earth.
Being from outside the U.S. I must say that on the whole, Americans' expressions of patriotism for their country are charming and somehow quaint-it really is. Can it be subverted? You bet it can! The propagandists in Washington have had a field day for the last 7 years. When all else fails, trot out Old Glory and some bunting, a few uniformed personnel and some of their equipment (flyovers are perfect for this), do some patriotic speechifying and whip the masses into a patriotic trance - you will then be able to sell 'em anything you want.
Anyone care to guess how often the word "Iran" will be uttered over the July 4th holiday period? My guess is lots. Some unfinished business for the Bushies to take care of.....
Thomas More -- not a fan of Priests mixing in politics.
Me, as an atheist I'm no fan of religion, but since religion covers the whole spectrum of human behaviour, I think priests who do not express opinions on political (moral) issues are not doing their job.
Likewise, politics covers the whole spectrum, so they get to express opinions about religion too.
What they should not do is mix the two together.
Thomas More July 2nd, 2008 3:19 pm
frank1569 July 2nd, 2008 1:49 pm
"We live in the greatest country on earth!" McCain said.
Enjoy it Frank. Its the one thing McCain has been right about this year and more than likely the last.
The greatest in comparison to what? Zimbabwe?
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." Edward Abbey
patriotism has been used by every world leader to acheive their personal means for the past three thousand years it's a human charachteristic not a Bush one.
Oh yes, almost forgot. Father Greeley is always worth reading.
Somewhere a long time ago I believe the late 1960s, I read something that said "nationalism" was a mental disease. At the time the writer was referring to the Russians and many other societies throughout history. He or she said that it had not taken affect in the US as it had in other countries, but that was or could change. In the story the writer described how nationalism or patriotism in this case led to the destruction of those societies. Patriotism, nationalism, courage, etc... are not tangibles that can be physically displayed or prescribed to a person or thing. These ideas or characteristics exists in thought. If the thoughts have flaws, then we may start to see the disease the writer was discussing and it's effects.
frank1569 July 2nd, 2008 1:49 pm
"We're still the greatest country on earth," McCain said.
"And I am mindful that I am not only running for the highest office in the greatest country on earth…" McCain said.
"We live in the greatest country on earth!" McCain said.
Enjoy it Frank. Its the one thing McCain has been right about this year and more than likely the last.
wilmoor July 2nd, 2008 2:42 pm
I'm not a fan of Priests mixing in politics, but other than that I thought you made excellent points.
overkill -
"I can't believe how many people actually fell for the lies of this cheerleader in cowboy boots. They have doomed all of our children."
So very very true, and the core of the problem - not Bush, but the @!#$%& idiots who accept or actually endorse him, his policies and the propaganda spewed.
FrederickJohnson, Nader is completely utterly ineffective as an agent for change in this country.
What seems to elude many folks is that no person nor group of persons can effect change without first achieving critical mass. That depends not on who leads, but on what the majority accept and seek. As long as significant percentages of folks remain naive or dispassionate about anything other than the status quo, then matters will continue as they have. On the other hand, when critical mass is achieved, who the leader is will barely matter. The only real power any person has follows from those who support that person.
To effect real change in this country, we have to control who our government representatives represent. We can't do that while the vast majority of people remain unaware, disinterested and ignorant enough to accept the lies and propaganda as if true, or as if it doesn't matter.
Making this about republicans, democrats or independents misses the whole point - it is about influence, pure and simple. Right now, the propaganda-led consumer-driven politically naive sheeple rule the day, and our government represents the interests of influence peddlers rather than the common welfare. (And the common welfare isn't L or P idealism but actual honest-to-God Constitutional principle!!!)
And, bless their hearts, everybody else just can't seem to focus on the target.
bulls eye - change who/what government represents. Our government is a representative republic.
50 pts, - take ownership of the money. Private money will always favor private interests. And yes, for those that don't know, "our" dollars are actual privately held bank notes, on which we pay interest.
20 pts - change the language of politics. Accept only socially constructive dialogue (such as "we're all in this together" and scorn emotionally divisive terms (such as "your either with us or against us"). Until we can see and expose divisive rhetoric and self-serving ideologies for what they are, we haven't much promise of lasting change.
Bush used phony patriotism because he is a phony president.
CONGRESS REFUSES TO ACT
Ritter had some tough words for Washington lawmakers for continuously failing to put any obstacles into place to block the Bush administration from even attempting to attack Iran without first consulting Congress.
"We see not only has Congress not sought to put any obstacles in the way of this policy, but in fact Congress is actively facilitating this policy by refusing to enact legislation that would require the president to get the consent of Congress before going into Iran," Ritter said. "The fact that Congress has opted out from tying the president's hands reinforces, at least in the Bush administration's mind, that Congress is legitimizing the potential of action.
"So when you put all of this together you start to see that there is not only a real risk of war, but that those who would like to do it see that there aren't any obstacles being put in the way of their accomplishing this, which makes the likelihood of military action even greater. Every day that goes by without Congressional action is another day that reinforces that there will be a military strike against Iran." --- Jason Leopold
Vinlander, the Bush administration stated that no one forced the soldiers who got killed to join the military. I guess that's justification for sending them to get killed in an illegal "war". Another illegal "war" coming up, this time with Iran.
I just want to know when Patriotism started to mean acting so as to get American troops killed. I thought that was the definition of Treason
Good to see another piece by Andrew Greely. He's the one who was responsible for my finding Common Dreams. I've been a big fan of his for many years, and followed the link to here for something he'd written.
He's also responsible for my realization that not all Catholic priests are scumbag child molesters. Which brings me to my point.
While I agree that our political parties have been badly corrupted, putting every Republican, and every Democrat in that category is wrong. There are many in both parties that are as sickened as everyone here is about the corruption and where this country has been taken.
Forty years ago John Prine summed (and sang)it up with respect to patriotism:
"Your flag decal won't get you into heaven any more, its already overcrowded from your silly little war, and Jesus don't like killing, no matter what the reason's for..."
Yeah, yeah, yeah ! And where the FUCK were "Daniel David's" favorite Democratic Party ? Well, what do ya' know? They not only cooperated with Bush but as a matter of fact, people like Joe LIEberNAZI helped enable and empower the war against Iraq ! But as always, the Democrats are always "happy" to allow the GOP to RAPE and FUCK the Democratic Party to DEATH !! Look, it's not just Bush but both parties in general that need to be abolished !
VOTENADER.ORG !!!!
"We're still the greatest country on earth," McCain said.
"And I am mindful that I am not only running for the highest office in the greatest country on earth..." McCain said.
"We live in the greatest country on earth!" McCain said.
Now that's patriotism, baby.
Wonder which countries hold the 2 through 10 spots? And, like, what does #3 chant "We live in the third greatest country on Earth!?"
Patriotism, phony or otherwise, is just a symptom of an underlying "Us vs. Them"-ism. And which institution, whether liberal or conservative, pervays an Us vs Them attitude? Religion, of any stripe. Doesn't matter how liberal a Christian/Jew/Muslim you are, bottom line is "God favors us (we'll go to heaven), and disfavors them (they go to hell)". Bottom-line. Once religion becomes a thing of the past, like astrology, patriotism and all the other -isms will fade away. And they'll give way to people treating others as equals. Trite but true.
It's time to go beyond words and do something tangible. Certainly an institution to which the writer belongs to could lead a charge to challenge the administration but I'm afraid that they are merely playing politics. Hey, after all, it's not about the teachings of Jesus that is the priority of this church!! That's why I left it.
I can't believe how many people actually fell for the lies of this cheerleader in cowboy boots. They have doomed all of our children.
Bush! Cheney! USA!
How many kids did you kill today??
:(
On last night's Daily Show, I saw the plethora of smears attacking Obama's patriotism. Unbelievable. And Maureen Dowd's column this morning reported the smears on McCain's soldiering. Please.
The country has a host of legal, social, and structural problems, and these blow-dry bloviators want to make November 2008 all about what they have decided is or is not "patriotism."
Thank you Father Greeley for expressing your stance against the Iraqi war. I am not seeing too many other's of the clergy (of any religion) speaking out against this war as you do. And I really feel that if the clergymen of this country would do their duty and preach against this evil illegal war in their Sunday sermons, it would do more to affect people's outlook on the war than anything else.
I have to admit that I am an ex-Catholic, but people like you who do the right thing helps restore some serious doubts I've had about religion. Thank you again.
Using the word "phoney" is the work of a less than stellar wordsmith.
Phoney is a word associated with and widely used by the likes of hollywood, ad agencies and naughty used car dealers.
Then again americans do love living in the fantasy world just nip on over to Jim Kunstler's web site ClusterfuckNation for a peak: http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/.
Numbed & dumbed into the sedated state of useless carbon-based bodies. Our demise will save the universe.
Of course it was and is phony patriotism. That's the Achille heal in most all lands. You can use it to destroy the country. Ironic, huh?
They had plans to take down the United States themselves and blame it on the enemy they needed to create -- Muslims and anyone with brown skin. Hitler did the same thing with his Reichstag fire blaming it on the enemy he needed to create.
When will we rip off the mask of the Joker and find our own government underneath the make-up of horrors?
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Also of George Wanker Bush.
The crucial difference between Russia's "great patriotic war" and America's is that Russia was physically invaded by its attacker, and the attacker did so out of a brutal colonialist desire to enslave the Russians and exploit Russia for all it could wring out of that country.