'Special Weapons' Have a Fallout on Babies

It is shameful what this government will do, both to others as well as our own troops. It isn't anything new, nuclear vets clear back into the 1950's were treated no better than lab rats, the affects of Agent Orange both to the vets and the genetic damage that is visited on their children is well known, now the uranium enriched shells are creating health problems for todays veterans. If we can do this to our own for no good reason, is it so impossible to believe they would do it to our enemies? Maybe I should say the governments enemies, since the use of the collective "our" seems over the top for most of us to claim any person in Iraq as "our" enemy. The question remains as to why is it so difficult for those in the Democratic party not to bring impeachment to the fore, unless of course they are as complicit as the Republicans, and for me, that is not a big jump. How we can eliminate the criminal element from our leadership is beyond my comprehension since we only have two political parties, neither of which will ever over take the moral ground neccessary to right the ship of state. It is time to vote for those who can and will move in the direction that is above moral reproach. We need to elect the people who follow a different drum, or at least support those who do, even if they are not a representative in your area. Give the nod to those who do not take money to get elected from anyone beyond the individual contributor. No large PAC's, lobbist organizations or Corporate bundling that tends to get them the "gold" while we the people get the shaft.

Another deadly legacy courtesy of the 'greatest' nation on Earth: USA - the world's cancer.

I know that ~NAM~, does it cause PTSD, cancers, etc, and does it contaminate the land for four billion years?

There is no comparrison to DU is what I said.

If you want to increase the size of the protest and get as many people on the street as possible demanding the end of this and future wars in the middle east, you can do either or both of these two things: 1) reinstitute the draft and 2) abolish Israel. Einstein said creating a jewish state was absurd and would bring misery on a lot of people.

If you want to increase the size of the protest and get as many people on the street as possible demanding the end of this war, you can do either or both of these two things: 1) reinstitute the draft and 2) abolish Israel. Einstein said creating a jewish state was absurd and would bring misery on a lot of people.

In 1954 my mother had her first child. She did not smoke and did not drink alchohol nor would she. Her mother before her told her in no uncertain terms that doing such would affect the child. Neither were Scientists with degrees. Both were years ahead of the Science waiting around for absolute proof that such would be harmful while "Scientists" for the Tobacco Companies sold cigaretes as a health product.

It was simply common sense.

It makes absolutely NO sense to me that DU Munitions are somehow benign. There is evidence and science aplenty to suggest this not the case including videos released by the pentagon cautioning exposure to such.

I am convinced DU Munitions are enviromentaly destructive and do not have to wait on the conclusive evidence to demonstrate such. It simply common sense.

I am convinced science WILL declare this the case but that hardly means that exposure to such is not harmful UNTIL science declares it the case.

I am also convinced the Pentagon, The US Government and its hired team of scientists are well aware of this .

Can't say anything. Can only vomit.

And as I have previousy stated ___~Ken~,___ that Uranium Weapons Conference report I offered the link for, was mostly the words of MANY highly qualifed doctors and scientists, etc, not just the two authors you mention.

Okay ~KEN~, you believe what you wish on the DU issue. I believe inhaling nano-particles of DU, even one, can cause lung cancer, or brain cancer if it crosses the "olfacatory" (sic) bulb when inhaled through the nose and lodges in the brain. Once lodged there, a microscopic speck of DU will continually bombard any brain tissue it is lodged on with radiation and over a period of years it is equivelant to several thousand chest x-rays, a cancer will very likely result.

Brain cancers grow, portions break off and spread through the blood stream to any other part of the body to begin another cancer factory, ____ just like melanoma does.

Yes, among other things, Doctor Karen Parker is a lawyer and she spends her time in the field of human relations and primarily works to help humanity world-wide and to attempt to have a better world for our future generations. That article I posted is not her medical opinions. She does offer opinions of the wrongs of using DU and the cover-ups which have been done by governments to deny DU is harmful.

If you have any disagreement with the article and the doctors comments quoted, please do state what they may be. I am not prepared to argue with them. I just offer the link and let the reader make up their own mind of it's validity. There isn't anything I personally can do to stop the use of DU. I just attempt to pass on the word of others who are well qulalifiled to speak on the issue.

I am not sure if this phosphorous ammunition being brought now may be a Red Herring, to detract from DU ammunition use. Phosphorous ammunition was used extensively in WW-1 by the British and far more so in WW-2 and used by all combatants in ALL wars since WW-1.

In spite of that, we have never had the problem of such a massive number of PTSD in adults, especially so in military ground troops and the large numbers of childhood cancer cases as we have now experienced since DU has been used as a weapon. Children and teenagers are far more susceptible to DU contamination than adults, as their immune systems are not fully developed.

I am not suggesting Phosphorous ammo is not a problem or a potential health hazard, but it is not anywhere near the level of DU. The statistics do not support such a theory.

Actually Kem,

I haven't had any problem with you since you stopped making your ludicrous claims like, "one nano-particle of DU is like a hundred, million, billion X-rays" or whatever incredibly stupid thing it was that you said.

Your one PHD that prepared the report at least has a Masters in Science (Engineering) so presumably has a decent math/science background and indeed makes no outrageous claims in the Uranium Weapons conference report. As a mtter of fact, if you actually read the report, his emphasis is on the chemical (not radiological) toxicity of the DU. The other PHD has her degree in jurisprudence. In other words she is an attorney and God knows they never have any axes to grind or ulterior motives.

Again, you don't have to take my word for it. All the information is readily available.

All other things being equal, I still think I will take my cues from Health Physicists, Nuclear Physicists, Chemists and the like.

Well,~STONETOOL~. "IF" as you suggest, barbarity is OUR stock in trade, then I would suggest that it is people with your frame of mind who promote it. And as you so well put it, "the truth is never in poor taste".

And to term us "pinko bleeding hearts" the words you used to define the good people who comment here and the children of Iraq are unworthy of life. You are a sick bastard, go suck up to Cheney and don't bother any decent people with your obscene shit.

Stonetool, you clearly stated "nits become lice". In other words, children hecome adults, so it's better to let them die than to face them later. I get it.

Shame on you.

I seem to have stirred up a storm..... with my post. The truth is that barbarity is our stock in trade, and has been for centuries. The veneer of civilized behavior is very thin..... like the emperor's new clothes it fails to conceal out barbarity which goes back to the beginnings of time. This brief era of "enlightened" and "compassionate" thought is an abberation in human history..... though a recurring one. It is always submerged eventually under a wave of darkness in the ongoing struggle between that religious folks call "good and evil". In times of prosperity and leisure we are able to rise out of the swamp and pretend to be civilized, but it is but a short lived phase in human existence. Bloody hate, anger, cruelty, and indifference to human suffering are the norm. We turn our backs on these things every day...... every one of us...... we really have no choice if we are to live a sane life amid the chaos.
The TRUTH IS NEVER IN POOR TASTE ...... is my answer to those who commented that my post was in poor taste... If you can't stand the heat.... stay out of the kitchen. I was as somebody pointed out speaking the attitudes held by many of our fellow Americans...... who NEVER write their opinions here..... They should be heard should they not?? Our American tradition is, was, and remains, stupid cruel and brutal treatment of others. If we do not take a personal hand in it...... it makes us no less responsible for the death and suffering wrought in our name by others..... be it Chivington, King Saul of the Bible, or General Tommy Franks or???

Howard

"...white phosphorous, a restricted incendiary weapon, was used a year earlier in Fallujah."

Another war crime for the criminal in chief, who is also, by Constitutional definition, the commander in chief of the military.

Another day, another outrage.

This link, which I will post again, and one Kendpotter is critial of, lists all of the Uranium Weapons Conference attendees. I'm impressed, even if Mister ~Kendpotter~ is not.

http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/background.htm

I wish this were required reading at every school and college in the world. And if any wish to deny it is accurate and debate it, please do and perhaps list your qualifications. Like ~Lizard~, who is a practicing MD and a scientist who denies global warming, etc. ___ LOL.

~KENDPOTTER~ you have previously berated the link I offered of the Uranium Weapons Conference. YOU stating the authors of the paper have little knowledge of "Depleted Urqanium" and you are 'unimpresed'.

The authors are Doctor Peter Bien and Doctor Karen Parker. Doctor Bien has a masters and a doctorate in Risk Management and he is a member of the European Committee on Radiation Risk.

Doctor Parker has a doctorate (Cum Laude)from the Interntioal Institute of Human Rights and has workedd since 1996 to educate people about the risks of DU. I do believe they are both highly qualified to intelligently discuss the issue and write a report attended by many other highly qualified people. They are not nuclear physiscts, nor do they need to be to understand the serious concsequences of breathing in miocroscopic DU particles. A ten year old child with an average IQ could understand what qualified doctors and scientists, or professinal writers who quote scientists warn us of.

Dr Bein and Parker wrote the Uranium Comference report, which was attended by 40+ others who were highly qualified to discuss the issue. Bien and Parker summerized the findings of the conference and the learned opinions of all of those doctors and wrote the report. For you to be critical of it is humerous ~KENDPOTTER~, except it is not funny when you come on here and do so.

You only tend to cause doubt in other peoples minds and that is exactly what the Neo-Cons who promote the use of DU for weapons wish to happen. They must just love it when some denyers do that. Hope you are satisfied ~Kendpotter~. Now since I have dared to disagree with you once again on the DU subject, it is time for you once again to respond and tell me once more to go fuck myself. Thank you for posting nothing of any use on this thread.

>>Presently, the world is watching us (the most dangerous and aggressive nation) deplete our assets and demoralize our military (as we watched Europe from 1939 until 1944)- after which they can make their move against us, and clean our clock.

It will not happen. You see there IS one nation so blinded by ideology and hatred of others, they are fully prepared to launch Nuclear weapons against them and end life on Earth as we know it. That regime is not run by madmen in Iran, or Commies in Russia or those inscrutable freedom hating Chinese.

It is the Government of the United States. It has used more Chemical and Nuclear munitions against the peoples of the World then any other.

Americans have to free themselves of the monster they have put in power.

And what does Bush know about war and kicking ass......LOL

He's been pampered and spoiled all his life and pretended to serve his country in the National Guard while AWOL, drunk, and partying when others were in Vietnam.

willybill writes: "Add this to the Articles of Impeachment..."

Could everyone shut up about impeachment. It's not going to happen. You just sound like stupid little children who haven't a clue how the real world operates.

Bush has got away with mass murder because Americans voted/allowed him back into office for a second term. Americans have done nothing - NOTHING! - to show they give a damn about anyone or anything but AMERICANS and AMERICA.

Time for Americans to take a good look at themselves, to see how evil they have become.

Bush's ratings when he invaded Iraq was well over 70%.

If anyone should be impeached, it's the American people!

"Getting lost in the media furor over McClellan's memoir is the new autobiography of retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the onetime commander of U.S. troops in Iraq, who is scathing in his assessment that the Bush administration "led America into a strategic blunder of historic proportions."

Among the anecdotes in "Wiser in Battle: A Soldier's Story" is an arresting portrait of Bush after four contractors were killed in Fallujah in 2004, triggering a fierce U.S. response that was reportedly egged on by the president.

During a videoconference with his national security team and generals, Sanchez writes, Bush launched into what he described as a "confused" pep talk:

"Kick ass!" he quotes the president as saying. "If somebody tries to stop the march to democracy, we will seek them out and kill them! We must be tougher than hell! This Vietnam stuff, this is not even close. It is a mind-set. We can't send that message. It's an excuse to prepare us for withdrawal."

"There is a series of moments and this is one of them. Our will is being tested, but we are resolute. We have a better way. Stay strong! Stay the course! Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out! We are not blinking!"

A White House spokesman had no comment."
http://tinyurl.com/6qgk9n

I believe Stonetool's post (6/12/08 11:52 pm) is inappropriate since so many ignorant and cruel people believe in what he posted. If it's sarcasm, it's in poor taste and difficult to tell if he's serious or not.

Optimizer,

Your link, like KemPatrick's would be a lot more impressive if the people spouting their opinions had any sort of education in the field.

Doug Rokke, PhD has his doctorate in Education. Not Health Physics, Nuclear Physics, Medicine, Epidemiology or any other relevant field.

If that is a source you want to put faith in, it's okay with me. You can worship at any false idol you want. Just don't expect me to be impressed. There are too many posters on this board without the requisite background to understand the science behind this issue and lay-people like Rokke have to be taken with a grain of salt. The guys doing the serious science are the ones asking him who are all these guys that worked for him (now supposedly dead) were. The answers coming out are that Rokke never headed anything, the only health physics experience he has is what he obtained on the job there, and the bit about all these poor bastards dying is a bunch of BS.

You don't have to take my word for it. All this information is readily available.

PS- The Los Alamos letter dealt with mixed fission products not uranium, a completely different kettle of fish.

Read it and weep, for we have fired off far more DU ammo on military ranges here in the United States than we have in Iraq, and the other Mid East countries, as we now sit at our computer, some DU weaponry is being tested for accuracy and effect.

Here is one link for an example.

http://www.protecthawaii.ws/page2.html

It will be very difficult for any president to put a stop to the use of DU ammunition and bombs. ___ It's that old adage, "the genie is out of the bottle". There are at least 30 other countries who now use DU ammo and it's "wonderful" weaponry. Our military is not about to allow our troops to be supplied with ammunitinon which is inferior to any real or potential enemies we may have.

When the decision was first made to use DU in ammunition, it was believed that DU was relatively harmless, whih is true when in a solid state, you can carry it around in your hands. Buttttt, once DU is burned, then the situation changes in a very nasty manner and when fired, DU ammo begins to burn, and it burns at very high temps when it strikes a target such as a vehicle, then the vaporized DU particles is a nasty poison if inhaled.

Inhaled DU won't kill you right away, but if inhaled it will eventually kill you, or cause diseases which will and DU is then not blamed for the medical maladies. It only requires a person to inhale "one single speck" of DU to create serious medical problems. Two specks is worse of course and a hundred is much worse and so on. And there are five billion deadly specks of poison in a cupful, lots of cupfuls in a bunker buster, or the new BIG BLUE bomb. Now there is some awesome Shock and Awe.

DU is blowing in the wind now, it's every place in some form of concentration. Considering the fact that our planet is covered with 70% water, we can figure a good deal of the atomic waste we humans have so foolishly used for weapons, is now in our oceans. DU will over time kill any living thing, down to the microbal level. It also will alters genes, so all in all it's a very nasty poison, which remains deadly for four billion plus years.

You ever wonder what DU might be doing to Earth's wild life, like the birds and the bees, etc, or the ocean's vital to all life phytoplankton? I often wonder, as we no longer see many birds or bees or any other bugs and somethng is killing off the ocean's phytoplankton and no one is certain of the reason. ___ DU? I dunno, maybe? Probably that and lots of other man-made poisons. I do know that the oxygen in our atmosphere is supplied by the ocean's tiny phytoplankton plant, at least most of it is.

Anyway, it's going to be a long time before we see the use of DU in weapons of war banned. It will stop when we humans on this unique water-world planet we call Earth are all dead. Then after a few billion years, if enough phytoplankton survive, life will begin again. If they don't survive, eventually Earth will be another Mars.

Of course if you have any young children or grand kids who read this sort of articles, they would likely ask why we don't stop it now and also may well believe, that all adults are insane.

Here is a fun three minute read on the subject, one of over a million available on the net. Some of course deny DU is dangerous, no one in any government wishes to admit they have allowed such utter, criminal stupidity.

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_blowinginthewind.htm

Time to stop blaming the Bush Administration and start blaming EVERY American man and woman for not taking to the streets and either non-violently or violently removing their leaders from power and hold them accountable.

Bush/Cheney may be the boogey-men, but all US citizens are 100% complicit by accepting such actions.

ddell - having read Stonetool's post again, I can only come to the conclusion that it was sarcasm, with the important bits in inverted commas.
Meanwhile, I find it wrong to use sarcasm in reply to a topic such as this, because it is so alarming, so disgusting, that I find it difficult to make any comment at all.

Stonetool needs a frontal lobotomy.

And this is all being done in OUR name.... hope everyone feels proud...

IMO I finally understand what US has become:

Impeach a president for lying about recieving a BJ

Don't impeach a president for telling the truth about the "35" (I did/said it)

US hates lyers unless they tell the truth about their lying then its OK

Hey Runc: How about politicians like Hillary who knew better, but tested the waters of our Iraq propaganda/ self-deception public opinion and voted to authorize the war only to stay popular? To what part of Hell would Dante consign them?

arete (post above @3:46PM)

You say "We are all responsible for this nightmare."

Another way to say what (I hope) you mean is: 'we all need to accept personal responsibility for undoing this nightmare whether we directly perpetrated it or not.'

I don't think a critique of individual political irresponsibility in a democratic commons can have the same conscience-building reference point as does the Law assigning collective guilt to those individuals who knowlingly commit specific crimes of the state within a citizenry's democratic stupor.

The former usually enables the latter, true enough, but almost always without intending it --Intention being a distinction crucial to Justice, and also one which disallows any toying with human to human betterment schemes through the bogus engine of Collective Guilt.
While passive enablement of moral crime may be a no less a sin than active commission of it, sins of passive enablement and those of active commission are and need to remain, in distinctive moral categories.
One intends only to 'not be bothered.' The other intends to harm others by design.

I think we can agree that each individual in a democracy shares a roughly equal responsibility to stay personally conscious about and involved in how the state is run and by whom, sufficient to prevent the loss of both democratic control and the shared principles of human decency --and that a majority of Americans have failed in their responsility prevent either of these losses. As your post also suggests, this seems to be the result of people not being grounded enough in their own being to [any longer] recognize a common beingness.

I suspect that without a lot more honest probing by all of us, into what has caused this collapse of being-ground, all of our exhortations about the need to change ourselves and our institutions will continue to lack the needed new blueprint. The old blueprint clearly being no longer workable
I think we all agree, too, that we must not give up on ourselves.
As F. Nietzsche memorably put it: Reason often returns to Earth in the form of a raven inspired by deep whiffs of carrion.
And god knows, we certainly now have enough carrion.

Iraqi Health Minister Salih al-Hassnawi highlighted the shortage of medicines at a press conference in Arbil in the Kurdistan region in the north Feb. 22. "The Iraqi Health Ministry is suffering from an acute shortage of medicines…We have decided to import medicines immediately to meet the needs."

He said the 2008 health budget meant that total expenditure on medicines, medical equipment and ambulances would amount to an average of 22 dollars per citizen.

...wonder which country is getting the contracts to supply these medicines??

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/12/9566/#comment-299194

In that I post links to two very important articles, one by Stephen Lendman, the other by Andrew G. Marshall. Both are important and what they say is pertinent to refer to in this page, and with respect to the war of aggression against Iraq, and not only today's war of aggression against that country, but also during the Clinton administration, while likely enough also ever since the end of it.

The people who expressed since hatred or anger over these crimes against Iraqis suffering, though not newly, of DU poisoning, and now the white phosphorous and possibly other toxic pollution caused by these types of wars of aggression, will SEE THAT THERE IS MORE THAN MAJOR REASON TO BE ANGRY. ALSO WILL U.S. TROOPS CAPABLE of reading such articles and really understanding what they say; the article by Andrew Marshall may be a little trickier for some people to grasp what it says, while Stephen Lendman's is CLEAR AND CRUCIAL READING.

They're both CRUCIAL to read and then readers will be able to understand, or not, or variably well and not, how really related the two articles are to why the U.S. wars like this. Whatever degree it is that people will understand what I'm talking about, the two articles are CRUCIAL READING and everyone needs to read them; and they do present information that is of new nature.

I guess there will be hand wringing and cries of "What have they done?" from Americans once they learn of this. And most don't have a clue.
I discovered DU by accident about three years ago on free speech tv and I wish to God I didn't know now because it haunts me.
The evils the pentagon (looking for the antichrist? Stop right here) is capable of creating know no bounds and how any of the people that create this abomination can sleep at night is beyond me. Bush family war profiters get the hot table on a good night - by the toilets! IN HELL, bottom floor.
And yes the contamination is spread around the world through the winds so they have or will destroy us all.
Between nuclear winter, global warming and the evil that spews from the pentagon we are all "going up the rails on a crazy train" Ozzy.
May God forgive us for it is our tax dollars that make this insanity possible. I'm not even religious by nature but this stuff sure will make you pray and wish for a better future.

WMD's... We Got'em an We Drop'em

We call it, Bringing (fake)Democracy.

What we need is, via the World Court, to make countries legally accountable for the collateral damage they cause during their invasions and occupation.

A class action by the residents of Iraq against the U.S. should yield billions of dollars. That might well bankrupt the U.S. and then our world might have some chance of achieving peace.

P.S. The Palestinians could mount a similar action against Israel.

Kittieladyoregon - I feel exactly the same way as you, because 70% of our own elected members here in the UK, voted to go to war with Iraq. I feel pretty helpless, knowing that most of my relations and friends, are too selfish or uncaring to take an interest in all this. I have contacted local members of Parliament, and prospective candidates, but none seem interested - Iraq is "old news" now. Here in the UK, we only hear about Afghanistan or Iraq, if there is another British soldier killed - this is disgusting!!
We are slaughtering and torturing on a huge scale, whilst suffering minimal casualties ourselves. Iraq and Afghanistan will be wastelands, filled with the bodies of dead and dying people. If this article is to be fully believed, then our troops will come home, themselves infected, to spawn more deformed children.
If Tony Bliar wanted a legacy, then this would be a fitting one, because he was the "enabler" in this war, the man who stood shoulder to shoulder with Bush, before unleashing hell on millions of innocent people.

But to be fair, the US soldiers are also distributing free candy bars and jugging balls to the delight of the little Iraqi children in full view of US network evening news cameras.

I don't know what to make of stonetools post above...I just hope he's kidding.

However, the idea that DU's radioactivity is too low level to do damage is a pernicious lie. Because of the deep penetration of nano particles of DU, the effect upon the cell (and the genetic material within) is horrendous: "DU weapons emit Alpha particle dose to a single cell from U-238 which is 50 times the annual dose level. Cancer is initiated with one alpha particle, its daughter isotopes effect generations as the isotopes bio-concentrate in plants and animals, and travel up the food chain. It is a nuclear weapon because the energy is derived from the nucleus of the atom. They enter the body through the lungs, the digestive system or breaks in the skin. One gram of DU releases more than 12,000 particles per second."

The horror, the horror

We must of course disregard this article entirely...... The authorship renders the content immediately suspect:
Ali al-Fadhily and Dahr Jamail

I would advocate further use of "low level radioactive waste" munitions..... and in fact it should be accelerated. It is an excellent way of reducing our nuclear waste problem..... This stuff is not wanted at Yucca Mountain... or anywhere else. What better way to dispose of this toxic nuisance than to load it into explosive weaponry and broadcast it upon our enemies.
You pinko bleeding hearts need to remember these are baby terrorists we're talking about...... not just ordinary babies.....
Have we forgotten our glorious history...... "nits make lice" to quote Colonel John M. Chivington, former Methodist minister and perpetrator of the infamous Sand Creek "Massacre" in Colorado, 1864. Massacre is the word we use today (because it is politically correct) for his courageous act in which Chief Black Kettle's band, peaceful but dissatisfied with the lack of game in their area were told to move to Sand Creek where they would be protected.... whereupon troops from several units commanded by Chivington were given the order: "Take no prisoners,...nits make lice.", and at dawn of November 29'th 1864 hundreds of courageous troops fell upon the unsuspecting camp.... Unfortunately about 600 "terrorists" escaped alive to reproduce, causing our society untold grief in the intervening years.
As Good Christians, we have further example in our own bible....... several of them..... In the book of Samuel Saul relays God's commandment to "Kill every living thing..... the birds in the air and the beasts in the field.... or some variation of that recurring theme..... There is also an similar command in Deuteronomy. Yes.... dumping radioactive waste on the enemy and leaving him and his offspring dead and maimed is the patriotic, American, Christian thing to do I think.
If we exterminate all those pesky "rag heads"....... the only thing left over there is the oil..... Now that makes sense!

Often I ask "Just what will it take for the "good guys" of America to realize how much our government has done to other countries around this planet...for years".... Our Military Corporation has occupied countries for years under the guise of "Keeping us safe..or Defending Democracy"....Poor Guatamalans, Poor Panamanians...ETC.

Perhaps, when our "supported troops" do start coming home and they have massive DU induced diseases (it's in the air, right? Those youngsters do breath in Iraq?).... then they too will be sick and their children will be deformed...
Then they will get the anti-depressents that the rest of the "good guys" are on....
and so it goes....
America's citizens are so complacent because most are in some prescribed drug induced haze....they just can't see the insanity and horror. How can they act with compassion. How can they demand impeachment? ...they have been programed to see nothing; question nothing; (sometime, just check out kids coming out of a public school or lining up...they have this zombie like glaze over their eyes...the sparkle of life in their eyes is just not there....oh yeah did I mention Ritalin?)..I won't even go into what's in the food...(Ever wonder what happened to all of the "research" that was done on humans in Germany? Ever wonder why so many chemicals were introduced into our food ...after the war?)

I guess "Forgive them, for they know not what they do" is all that can be said for the American Public, but what is done to others will come back...and I think we are on the brink of pay back time...Methane Burp, anyone?

Only a relatively small number of Americans will read a report like this. The lies continue. Recall how horrified Americans were concerning the story that turned out to be false about Kuwaiti babies being removed from incubators by Iraqis? It isn't that many Americans are ignoring the truth. It is that they are not being told the truth. For millions on the Christian Right, it has been a matter of denial. They have been literally trained to block any idea that does not match up to what they have been told to believe. This is the way that normal caring people with families and concern for others can be twisted by fear and religious fervor into supporting these evils and those who do them.

GAZA/IRAQ are the same. Racism on a world level

When I read such articles that talk about the ongoing ruin war and the machines of war that cost so much money do to human lives, I am simply appalled, dismayed and I get angry in that way that's driven by compassion for human life.

The Duperpower is utterly irresponsible and it is incomprehensible to me that the American People can tolerate its continued existence, until I look to American Mythology and how it paints the picture that has you all swallowing illustory ideals that are pretty words that when stood up against the record of history just don't hold any water.

The military industrial mediaplex has got to be dismantled. All it does is manufacture death and destruction for Mars the God of War, the real religion and spiritual nature of America. Manufacturing disability wholesale! What kind of people design, develop, manufacture and prepare such weapons, and deploy them in violation of international treaties they pretend to be a part of? A duplicitous people. A deceitful people. A duped people. An insane people. People who think they have control over their nation, but who in reality do not. Because if they had control and were truly compassionate, they would cause such madness to cease and ensure that none could ever perpetuate it upon other human beings again.

Of course, with the robot soldiers the Elite won't have to worry any more about finding oppressed people and bribing them into careers that teach otherwise good men and women how to kill and destroy in mindless fashion obeying orders, that in the end lead to their own insanity and everlasting regret.

Madness.

Call it genocide, population reduction, whatever. Israel littered Southern Lebanon in 2006 with DU and cluster bombs.

Bush will be remembered fondly by the neo-malthusian historians. Right up there with Kissinger, Sharon, Hitler, FDR, Stalin, Wilson, Talaat Pasha and Churchill. He is sure to be knighted by the Queen like his daddy.

elmysterio June 12th, 2008 3:39 pm

"I still dream of "Pacifica" which is a new country made up of Alaska, British Columbia, Washington and Oregon…. A country where compassion and progressive ideals reigns supreme…"

How about "Ecotopia?" Ernest Callenbach wrote about what you're dreaming of in the same named book over 30 years ago - and it occurs in the same bioregion as Pacifica. I still think of it and hope that some day we can get there. Read the book for some inspiration and hope. Also, "Gaviotas: A village to Reinvent the World" by Alan Weisman.

Good thing our president removed Saddam Hussein from power. I have heard he was an evil man who used poison gas on Iraqis in his own country. He did this years ago when he was fighting a war against Iran. Iran was an enemy of the USA, then and now. Our presidents have told us that. But Saddam needed help to fight the evil Iranians. Since Iran was our enemy too our president, Ronald Reagan, and our Secretary of War, I mean Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, made friends with Saddam and sold weapons to him so he could defeat the evil Iran. Some of these weapons were poison gas. When Saddam used the gas against his own people, Mr Reagan and Mr Rumsfeld were embarassed. They told Saddam next time only use the poison on the evil Iran.

Our new president, Mr Bush, has found a way to eliminate the embarassment. He told us we must attack Iraq because Saddam had used poison against his own people. He invaded Iraq without a Declaration of War, like a surprise attack! He had Saddam killed and now he can poison the Iraqi people himself. We should look forward to the new ways of killing people which Mr McCain will bring to Iraq and Iran with his promotion to president.

See also:
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0128-35.htm
and
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_sho...

I lost all respect for the country I live in a long time ago - and it's stuff like this that precipitated it.

I am a very friendly and outgoing person, but on July 4 I always run and hide, because I want nothing to do with that holiday whatsoever.

but who can doubt robert fisk?

KEM PATRICK

brilliant link, thank you.............i admit, mine's a bit more 'graphic'

ET AL

http://www.ericblumrich.com/pl_lo.html

http://www.robert-fisk.com/depleted_uranium_links.htm

RTDRURY

well you hit the nail on the head there.............and let's not forget the oppressed 'labourers' who were brought in to build this pseudo-stable structure of 'ammerikuunism'.............

For those who suggest that Bush should burn in hell...

What? And turn Hell into a toxic superfund site?

Thousands of tons of depleted uranium is only the icing on the Middle Eastern cake. For decades the autocratic dictators, either propped up or radicalized by the west, have been buying peace from their oppressed populations with wickedly low petro prices, massively polluting an already desertified landscape to pay for a pseudo-stable structure of command/control over the people.

There are no words to describe Bush except pure evil. May he burn in Hell.

What a sad country the U.S. turned out to be, causing the suffering of so many innocent children, not to mention so many parents who have been killed, leaving the children orphans. It's sad the evil war criminals are being allowed to get away with it.

~RFINSTON~ The comments you posted here at 4.38pm concerning DU are the "governments line". They lie, and or tell and publish deceptive half truths, then lie to cover the first lie, __ then hope others will repeat their lies. ____ Someone always does.

Here is an excellent link that tells us precicely what DU will do if microspcopic particles of DU are inhaled and what the dangers are, cancer is assured is one of them.

There are (five billion) microscopic specks in a single cupful of the DU dust from a fired shell. A tank shell has 10 pounds of DU. A bunker buster bomb has over a ton of DU. ____ It is used daily.

The doctors who attended this DU concference were not politicians and they did not fear to tell the truth. They STRONGLY disagree with what you wrote here.

http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/background.htm

Any who wish to learn the truth about DU, take the time to read that comprehensive report.

The US has turned Saddam Hussein into a saint by comparison.

Genocide is too nice a term for the crime, since genocide implies something of a clean wipe out, with relatively merciful killings. No, this is the true dark side of Christianity, which sees Islam as an other, deserving of eternal damnation, with the construction of a hell on earth for Iraqis, so that flesh is tortured and mutated, and the sins of the Christians against Nature are visited most heavily on Islam and for every generation hereafter, with their seed of life blighted. It is no consolation that the deadly dusts and toxins will be spread ever so finely around the world, and will be in the blood of every US veteran returning from Iraq. There is no word for the enormity of this crime, and no possible justification for the usage of DU weapons, cluster bombs, Phosphorous weapons, for the benefit of greedy mens access to oil. This and this alone before other considerations damns the occupiers administrations as the worse war crimes ever to have been inflicted on a people on this earth.

Please don't blindly trust Wiki as fact without checking reputable references. The military disinfo people have been caught posting twisted and spun information to conveniently blunt and disarm horrifying and damning facts.

Here is a a reputable page that offers a primer on uranium-based munitions: http://www.axisoflogic.com/cgi-bin/exec/view.pl?archive=137&num=16946

Uranium based munitions should be banned for eternity. They are far more evil than cluster bombs, landmines, agent-orange, and torture. Micron-sized uranium dust particles will cause birth defects, cancer, misery, and death for all forms of life for many millions of years.

I think Christ said "Suffer the little children" and not make the little children suffer. The murder and maining of children for the next 10,000 years was set in place while the Great Satan was strutting his 're-election' in his presential cowboy boots. The mills of God grind slowly but as surely as there are gods in the heavens these Evangelical/Republican/Corporate childkillers will be ground extremely fine. May all their issue be without child.

Id like to remind people that some foolish iraqis actually supported the US invasion, because they wanted Saddam removed. Not having read Machievelli, and not understanding the nature of modern weaponry or the US military, they are morally implicated in the unfolding disaster.
NOW its clear from such scenes that modern warfare is a form of genocide actually legimitated by states thru rules invented decades ago. Weve seen recently calls by westerners including some on the left to invade Zimbabwe....if that were to occur, you can expect the same scene to unfold.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD PEOPLE CALL FOR A MILITARY INVASION OF ANY COUNTRY ANYWHERE FOR ANY REASON.

"I knew that Agent Orange and uranium (depleted or not) were weapons against unborn generations. Phosphorous is a new one."

Phosphorus is neither mutagenic nor carcinogenic but it is a nasty weapon. An air burst bomb will produce hundreds of fragments of burning phosphorus that will go straight through flesh to the bone.

bbr-001,

There are many factors that affect how uranium is retained or excreted from the body. Is it pure or in a compound? What solubility type is it it - M, F, S? How was it introduced - inhalation, ingestion, puncture wound? There is also treatment with chelating agents available.

Iraq is an epidemiologists nightmare. There are so many different toxics floating around. You have all the normal urban toxics in greater quantities than we are used to seeing in American cities. Plus you have all the effects from the military, past and present - including but not limited to DU and chemical weapons. Large parts of the country are exposed to toxins from petrochemicals. No scientist of any stature will say with certainty what is causing the birth defects and other abnomalities. The whole place is a witch's brew of toxic chemicals.

How many times have we heard of atrocities such as the killing of innocent children in the last six years?

Does anyone really think Bush gives a darn about anything happening over there? No, he's in the Vatican "praying" for the people in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. How nice.

Dennis Kuchinik (sp?) can save his breath trying to get an impeachment against this lying, miserable president. Who would replace him, Darth Vadar? Heaven help us.

Think of the number of soldiers coming back who will be needing medical care for years to come because of the DU.

We are stuck, friends, and neither McCain nor Obama will be the answer.

elmysterio,

I would suggest ending Pacifica at the Cascades. Eastern Washington would make Atilla the Hun look like a bed-wetting liberal.

And, just so I can keep KemPatrick happy - DU is only barely radioactive. All the pissing, moaning, rending of garments, and gnashing of teeth cannot change that. The universe is funny that way and insists on its own set of laws, irrespective of what we puny humans may think. That being said, once it is aeresolized, it has a chemical toxicity, that when inhaled, is far more dangerous than its radioactivity. Think of it as being like asbestos - When it is bound up (either in solid form or in another material) it is relatively benign - When it is airborne, it is dangerous.

Without going into the technical details, the risk of cancer, etc. from radioactivity is proportional to the amount of energy absorbed per gram of tissue (dose), and in the case of DU this is neglible. Think of it this way: the 4 billion year half-life means that only one atom out of every 100 million atoms of depleted uraniuam in your body will emit alpha radiation during your lifetime, thus a vanishingly low radiation dose. The hazard of such atoms is rather that all the atoms are dense metallic compounds. See the wikipedia article referenced earlier.
while it is in the body

Where is Kem this afternoon? This has been a hot topic with him forever. Some other folks too.

rfinston: If you can measure the radioactivity and the body does not pass uranium within a short period of time but actually holds it in tissues, and Iraqis are chronically exposed to the dust, then one would expect a higher incidence of cancer related to radiation damage. I guess the medical statisticians call the illnesses listed above "anecdotal evidence" until proven, but it seems pretty convincing to me.

rfinston,

You are correct about the low levels of radioactivity and is an alpha emitter - alpha radiation being stopped by the outer skin layer. So, solid chunks of it are fairly harmless.

BUT, in military use, it is pulverized into tiny respirable particles - then it is a potent lung carcinogen. Also, in reducing soil conditions it can also go into solution, find it's way into water supplies it can then be brought into intimate contact with all the other body tissues, with all kinds of mutagenic and carcinogenic effects.

Some facts....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium...

elmysterio,

With regard to your "Pacifica" you should reconsider such chauvinistic provicialism. The last time I was in Portland, Oregon, it had more homeless people than any place I've been. Pasco, Washington was a contrast of rich whites and very poor Mexican farm workers, and in Santa Cruz, California (suprized you didn't include the N half of Calif.), the people I was with were talking about how talk of global warming is just a socialist plot...

Can't imagine what would happen if these were pictures of our children as a result of someone else's actions.

http://liberty.hypermart.net/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2006/04/29/death_m...

Let't not exaggerate the "radioactive as hell" aspects of depleted uranium. The fact that it has a half-life of 4 billion years means specifically thay it is nearly stable so its toxicity appears to be as a heavy metal only (like lead, an alternative weapon material). So no one is going to develop radiation sickness or be harmed health-wise due to its radioactivity. Yes, you can measure that it is radioactive, but it is treated by the body as a heavy metal, depositing in the liver and bone, where its chemical effects are the cause for concern. None of the above is meant to endorse any aspects of our government's war on Iraq. But keeping the critique accurate is important.

Now we know what the Germans who let Hitler rise (or sink) to his level of atrocities felt like because we are them. We have done nothing to stop Bush.

I think Dante's Inferno reserves one of the hottest circles in hell for those who in time of great moral crisis, did nothing. We all burn for this.
JIM M

I wonder how this despicable creature we call our president would feel if his children or grandchildren are born deformed. Karma can be a wicked task- master! With his evil genetic make-up, it's a wonder his twins are healthy. Has anyone checked their "hooves" lately?

Cosmic Criminals - the whole lot of them. Off with their heads!

auggiedaddy June 12th, 2008 12:54 pm

its actually worse than that. Even if it wasn't radioactive, uranium is a heavy metal and a neurotoxin/immunotoxin/carcinogen/mutagen/teratogen.
What they are doing is the equivelant of bombing the country with radioactive mercury. double the misery for the same buck.

We are all responsible for this nightmare. We can rail and wail in the faces of 'the evil powers that be' yet the fact remains that we have given them the resources to accomplish evil. Until we assume our own authority and power, this will continue unabated. The coming consequences will provide us with the opportunity to wake up and realize that we are one being. We cannot allow evil to destroy our hope and dedication to the good.

I still dream of "Pacifica" which is a new country made up of Alaska, British Columbia, Washington and Oregon.... A country where compassion and progressive ideals reigns supreme...

kittyladyoregon: I am sorry for your heartsickness... I do feel for you. Alas though, the country you used to love has been doing these sorts of things for a very, very long time now... 60 years, if not more. There is a vast amount of information on the sickening and illegal activities of the US government online. Read some, and you will see a pattern of inhuman behavior appear...

Why? because the psychopaths have the power, and they are not like you and I... they can pretend to be, but they have no soul, no compassion, no humanity... therefore, they can do all sorts of evil and sleep well at night knowing they've done their part in spreading predatory capitalism throughout the globe.

Please let me off! I am so heartsick that the country that I used to love is guilty of this type of crimes against humanity. Everyone of them including the Clintonistas from that administration, probably the reaganites and the first Bushies need to be frog marched into the world court to be tried for their crimes. Unfortunately, the so-called "Right to lifers" are only concerrned with life before it is born. After birth, you are on your own and can starve, be bombed or be radiated. It is getting so bad that I can hardly read CD anymore with out getting physically ill.

This latest "outbreak" of birth defects in Iraq is just ANOTHER spike in the already soaring rate of infant mortality / birth defects. Since the first gulf war in 1991, the rate of cancer, birth defects and stillborn infants has been rising steadily. All due to the evil empire using toxic weapons and poisoning the environment.

I reccommend a documentary from 2005 called "Beyond Treason" that details the US military use of toxic munitions and covert testing of chemical, biological and radiological agents on both their own soldiers and innocent civilians.

Check it out: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=5326824137117584395

It is beyond question the fact that the US government has been war criminals for a very long time, and by association, the US population.

I wonder what Michelle Obama means when she says that she is now proud to be an American. Just what is she proud of?

Sure, like in all countries, there are many Americans who are deserving of our pride, but as a "nation", we have nothing - repeat, "nothing" to be proud of.

And we now need to realize that, with total justification, the "people" of the world now have nothing but contempt for America, as a nation.

The depleted uranium has not just poisoned Iraq forever. It is poisoning the whole planet which does not recognize national boundaries. It is disseminated throughout the world through the air and oceans and is coming "home" to poison us as well.

jmndodge wrote:

"We don't know that Obama will be greatly different, but we have hope. I do not mean that sarcastically, there is a possibility that with an active group of peace activist's, we will begin to see a change in the American positions around the world."

Well, Obamas recently selected Wal-Mart-loving, union hating, economic adviser Mr. Furman, in the best patronizing tone that the rich use when talking to us, says this about protest:

"Protest has had a great day, but that day has passed; resistance is becoming not only futile, but outre'. Being against something doesn't work that well anymore, besides making everyone tired and sad. What does work especially well in these times is being for stuff, creating new solutions, working hard collaboratively to make things happen in a hurry."

So, what Furman is saying is please don't be against the war, Wal-Mart's union-busting, corporate privatization, or anything else - that's just bellyaching and "makes people tired and sad". Instead Obama will be looking for you to use your entrepenuri