Iraq Slashes Food Rations, Putting Lives at Risk
BAQUBA - The Iraqi government announcement that monthly food rations will be cut by half has left many Iraqis asking how they can survive.
The government also wants to reduce the number of people depending on the rationing system by five million by June 2008.
Iraq’s food rations system was introduced by the Saddam Hussein government in 1991 in response to the UN economic sanctions. Families were allotted basic foodstuffs monthly because the Iraqi Dinar and the economy collapsed.
The sanctions, imposed after Saddam Hussein ordered the invasion of Kuwait, were described as “genocidal” by Denis Halliday, then UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq. Halliday quit his post in protest against the U.S.-backed sanctions.
The sanctions killed half a million Iraqi children, and as many adults, according to the UN. They brought malnutrition, disease, and lack of medicines. Iraqis became nearly completely reliant on food rations for survival. The programme has continued into the U.S.-led occupation.
But now the U.S.-backed Iraqi government has announced it will halve the essential items in the ration because of “insufficient funds and spiralling inflation.”
The cuts, which are to be introduced in the beginning of 2008, have drawn widespread criticism. The Iraqi government is unable to supply the rations with several billion dollars at its disposal, whereas Saddam Hussein was able to maintain the programme with less than a billion dollars.
“In 2007, we asked for 3.2 billion dollars for rationing basic foodstuffs,” Mohammed Hanoun, Iraq’s chief of staff for the ministry of trade told al-Jazeera. “But since the prices of imported foodstuff doubled in the past year, we requested 7.2 billion dollars for this year. That request was denied.”
The trade ministry is now preparing to slash the list of subsidised items by half to five basic food items, “namely flour, sugar, rice, oil, and infant milk,” Hanoun said.
The imminent move will affect nearly 10 million people who depend on the rationing system. But it has already caused outrage in Baquba, 40 km northeast of Baghdad.
“The monthly food ration was the only help from the government,” local grocer Ibrahim al-Ageely told IPS. “It was of great benefit for the families. The food ration consisted of two kilos of rice, sugar, soap, tea, detergent, wheat flour, lentils, chick-peas, and other items for every individual.”
Another grocer said the food ration was the “life of all Iraqis; every month, Iraqis wait in queues to receive their food rations.”
According to an Oxfam International report released in July this year, “60 percent (of Iraqis) currently have access to rations through the government-run Public Distribution System (PDS), down from 96 percent in 2004.”
The report said that “43 percent of Iraqis suffer from absolute poverty,” and that according to some estimates over half the population are now without work. “Children are hit the hardest by the decline in living standards. Child malnutrition rates have risen from 19 percent before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 to 28 percent now.”
While salaries have increased since the invasion of March 2003, they have not kept pace with the dramatic increase in the prices of food and fuel.
“My salary is 280 dollars, and I have six children,” 49-year-old secondary school teacher Ali Kadhim told IPS. “The increase in my salary was neutralised by an increase in the price of food. I cannot afford to buy the foodstuffs in addition to the other necessary expenses of life.”
“The high increase in food prices led people to condemn the delays in the ration every month,” Salah Kadhim, an employee in the directorate-general of health for Diyala province told IPS. “The jobless just cannot afford to buy food.”
“The food ration still represents a big part of the domestic budget,” Muneer Lafta, a 51-year-old employee at the health directorate told IPS. Without the ration, she said, families have to go to the market. Because Iraqi families are large, usually six to 12 people, shopping for food is simply unaffordable.
“I and my wife have five boys and six girls, so the ration costs a lot when it has to be bought,” 55-year-old resident Khalaf Atiya told IPS. “I cannot afford food and also other expenses like study, clothes, doctors.”
People in Baquba, living with violence and joblessness for long, are now preparing for this new twist.
“No security, no food, no electricity, no trade, no services. So life is good,” said one resident, who would not give his name.
Many fear the food ration cuts can spark unrest. “The government will commit a big mistake, because providing enough food ration could compensate the government’s mistakes in other fields like security,” a local physician told IPS. “The Iraq will now feel that he, or she, is of no value to the government.”
Ahmed, our correspondent in Iraq’s Diyala province, works in close collaboration with Dahr Jamail, our U.S.-based specialist writer on Iraq who has reported extensively from Iraq and the Middle East
© 2007 Inter Press Service
Genocidal strangulation - just like in Gaza.
Why did I know that in clicking on this story it would not link from a corporate mainstream American newspaper?
America owes Iraq billions in reparations…how about we feed the hungry Iraqi people? It’s the least we can do after bombing the shit out of them and murdering over a million.
How about it George?
“No security, no food, no electricity, no trade, no services. So life is good”
Khalaf Atiya told IPS. “I cannot afford food and also other expenses like study, clothes, doctors.”
So…
I live in America and work and cannot afford school (study), get hand me downs occasionally for clothes, have no medical insurance and can’t afford doctors. Also, I have no freedom of thought and my life is threatened daily by the government who doesn’t like that I write about their secret, illegal use of thought reading technology.
Welcome to the United States of Iraq.
Winning those hearts and minds…
A perfect vacuum for the Hama’s of the world to fill.
Yep, gatta hand it to bushcon, heck of a job.
“Genocidal strangulation - just like in Gaza*.” (whatfools)
*New Orleans
George W. and his supporters don’t believe in government programs. They are not helping people in this country or other countries because they want the market to help people instead of government programs. That is what this war was all about. Privatizing the Middle East and installing a democracy based on who has the most money.
should we call them the”geno-deciders” ?
An Open Letter to the American People
How much more death, starvation, infanticide and genocide will you allow in your name? As the bellies of Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater and every other conscienceless contractor in Iraq and Afghanistan becomes bloated with money stolen from American taxpayers, men, women, children and infants are being starved to death. Our soldiers eat like kings, but refuse to dine with their supposed Iraqi brethren. Have we no shame? Is their no pride left in this United States of America? Our hearts have been hollowed out through the incessant reaming with the auger of lies and propaganda from Fox news and the like. How much more will we allow them to drill into our souls and allow the last few light rays of humanity to escape and be absorbed by this evil administration? What if it was your mother, your brother, your father, your baby starving and begging in the streets for food? Would you stay silent??
The President’s 2008 Budget:
Provides $5.4 billion for WIC services to 8.3 million US women, infants, and children per month.
You can bet on the Iraq budget never exceeding that number. The current request of 7.2 billion will never get approved.
How Rush and Anne and others are going to spin this story:
{quote}: “Iraq’s food rations system was introduced by the Saddam Hussein government in 1991 in response to the UN economic sanctions.”
Rush and Anne: Saddam started the system in which he made Iraqis dependent on government instead of dependent on themselves! See what good we did in removing him. Finally, the Iraqi’s have a chance to depend on themselves and their own ability, instead of waiting for government handouts.
{quote}: “But now the U.S.-backed Iraqi government has announced it will halve the essential items in the ration because of “insufficient funds and spiralling inflation.”
Rush and Anne: The Iraqi government HAS sufficient funds - it’s just that the government is corrupt! How wonderful it is that the US is working with the Iraqi President to rid the government of corruption! And the Iraqi President is so thankful for our extensive knowledge and help on this process of cleaning up his government.
{quote}: “The Iraqi government is unable to supply the rations with several billion dollars at its disposal, whereas Saddam Hussein was able to maintain the programme with less than a billion dollars”
Rush and Anne: See above.
{quote}: “60 percent (of Iraqis) currently have access to rations through the government-run Public Distribution System (PDS), down from 96 percent in 2004.”
Rush and Anne: IT’S WORKING! More Iraqi’s are off the government dole. That is democracy at working at its very best!
{quote}: “My salary is 280 dollars, and I have six children,” and “I and my wife have five boys and six girls, so the ration costs a lot when it has to be bought,”
Rush and Anne: It’s not the Iraqi government’s fault, nor is it the fault of the U.S. that you have more children than you can afford to feed. That’s YOUR fault. JUST SAY NO TO SEX!!!
Coming soon to a mainstream media outlet near you.
It is sad when a brutal dictator has better redeeming qualities than the democratic version of a brutal dictator.
“Many fear the food ration cuts can spark unrest.”
Ya think?
And isn’t this part of the death dealing neo-deceptiCon plan?
“The elder George Bush was nicknamed “Magog,” Robbins reported. George W. Bush was called “Temporary” because he was not assigned a name and didn’t choose one.”
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/080304bondofsecrecy.html
All part of some Skull and Bones game no doubt.
Wait a minute, something is wrong here. If this article is factual, how come we don’t see it on OUR news channels? This sounds like another one of those made up stories to make our president look bad.
We went to extreme efforts, and spent milllions of dollars every single day for almost a year to oust Saddam and free the Iraqi people from a dictatorial madman. We gave the Iraqi people Democracy and freedom from fear and strife, pain and hunger. Just look at what we did to their hospitals and schools, their businesses, their infastructures and farmlands. I wonder if they appreciate what we have done?
On top of that, we have built a multi billion dollar embassy there in Baghdad, that is a wonder for all of the world. We even named it the Green Zone, Green is a good word now, it’s politically correct. There is a lttle probem with some scattered DU in the country, but time will clean that up. It never fails to amaze me how we Americans bend over backwards to help other nations, even use expensive shock and awe techniques, and their people don’t appreciate us. We should just leave Iraq and let those ingrates take care of themselves.
LOL @ TruOrange. How true!
Basically the plan for Iraq has been slow genocide all along. In this way Operation Iraqi Freedom (Freedom to die) has been a huge success. Billions for the administration’s buddies, oil revenue for the Oil Companies through the roof, and the cradle of civilization strangulated so that it can never again pose a threat to Israel. The objectives of the neo-cons have been largely achieved.
formernadervoter:
“Why did I know that in clicking on this story it would not link from a corporate mainstream American newspaper?”
Because what Dahr Jamail has been reporting on for years is just too real. But you knew that already.
I just wanted to plug the man’s blog: http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/
A little bit of history on this subject, lest those with putative liberal leanings think Mr. Bush is the only American president to maintain genocidal policies towards Iraq.
What follows below is from an authoritative website where there are citations for Ms Albright’s statement in favor of genocide:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/2002/paper.htm
Albright replied, “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price – we think the price is worth it.”
UNICEF, in a widely-publicised study carried out jointly with the Iraq Ministry of Health, determined that 500,000 children under five years old had died in “excess” numbers in Iraq between 1991 and 1998, though UNICEF insisted that this number could not all be ascribed directly to sanctions.
There are no reliable estimates of the total number of excess deaths in Iraq beyond the under-five population. Even with conservative assumptions, though, the total of all excess deaths must be far above 400,000.
All of these excess deaths should not be ascribed to sanctions. Some may be due to a variety of other causes. But all major studies make it clear that sanctions have been the primary cause, because of the sanctions’ impact on food, medical care, water, and other health-related factors. Though oil-for-food has changed the situation studied by UNICEF and Garfield, resulting in less malnutrition, recent field reports suggest that infant mortality remains high, due to water-borne disease.
The mortality rate for under-five children has probably not continued to rise since the 1999 studies, but the rate apparently remains very much higher than that reported in Iraq before 1990.
In the face of such powerful evidence, the US and UK governments have sometimes practiced bold denial. Brian Wilson, Minister of State at the UK Foreign Office told a BBC interviewer on February 26, 2001 “There is no evidence that sanctions are hurting the Iraqi people.” When denial has proved impossible, officials have occasionally fallen back on astonishingly callous affirmations. In a famous interview with Madeleine Albright, then US representative at the United Nations, Leslie Stahl of the television show 60 Minutes said: “We have heard that half a million children have died . . . is the price worth it? Albright replied, “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price – we think the price is worth it.”
It’s genocide pure & simple.
And it’s been an American genocide in Iraq since the Iran-Iraq War (1980-88).
Reagan & Rumsfeld gave military intel & wmd & other weapons to Saddam, and channeled arms to Iran by way of Israel during the Iran-Contra connection.
The result: a prolonged conflict with many casualties. Kissinger famously remarked, “The more of them that kill each other the better.”
Then Bush Sr’s war to “liberate Kuwait.”
Then Clinton’s sanctions, which brought about the deaths of half a million Iraqi children.
When asked if she thot the results of the sanctions were worth the deaths, Sec State Madeline Albright famously replied, “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it.”
And now this ..
Kind of reminds me of the genocide of the Native Americans, or the Palestinians.
Slow grinding destruction of the entire infrastructure of the nation and of the bonds that held the traditional societies together — to be replaced by capitalist corporate buldings and roles.
17th century colonialism four centuries on.
Kem, in answer to your first question, our news channels don’t deal in facts. As to your second question, they are far more aware of what we’ve done than most Americans. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
Every one of these millions of (brown) children are likely tomorrow’s terrorists-in spite of what America is doing for them today-so if we can starve them to death now it is a blow for Freedom & Democracy and is easier now because they eat less.
Once they are penned in completely w/ barbed wire Blackwater can interrogate, segregate into work details and supervise executions and burials.
And oh yeah, Topeka-you’re next.
Che Guevara had it right all along:
“The United States is the great enemy of mankind.”
Although, I would change great to GREATEST considering everything that we now know about this evil, degenerate nation that only causes misery and desperation every motherfucking day.
George W. and his supporters don’t believe in government programs. They are not helping people in this country or other countries because they want the market to help people instead of government programs. That is what this war was all about. Privatizing the Middle East and installing a democracy based on who has the most money.
Nathan, don’t forget the oil for all of the big oil companies. Again, it’s let Big Business have everything they want and too bad for the citizens.
Instead of traditional crops, Iraq must now grow genetically-engineered foods. They can no save seeds from one season to another. This is to prepare them for entry into the TWO = not to supply food to their own citizens. See the article below:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/patent/iraq111704.cfm
Whoops! The TWO above should read WTO.
kathy Heckman, I would not dare to compare the difficulties living in the US with what we have done to the Iraqis. We do not have a nation of seriously traumatized malnourished children. Nor does every family in the US have a member who has been killed or tortured or detained by the US or a partisan group (although the incidence is pretty high if you’re black - in which case you would be excused for your comment).
I know from personal experience how hard life is for the poor, but there are levels of poverty I haven’t experienced, such as in India or Africa. And I wouldn’t consider comparing life in the US with the nightmare we have created in Iraq. Instead, I feel ashamed that I live in this country and like it or not, benefit from what we do to people who have resources we want.
If you want to see how hard it can be in this country, go watch BOYZ N THE HOOD.
Wow. Saddam managed to provide more food, AND build 70 palaces at a cost of 4-5 billion, AND steal 2 billion worth of cash - all since the first gulf war. This doesn’t count his wonderful sons. We should have kept him alive and put him in charge of OUR treasury department.
bligh, Saddam had only his own family to support, not a gazillion corporations to glut. You might call him a cheap date.
It truly is sad to realize, that our government is far worse and far more dangerous for world peace, than Saddams ever was or could have been. We will all pay dearly for this unjust war and occupation of Iraq. We already are paying for it, the last big bill just hasn’t arrived yet.
When it does, the depression that will utterly destroy this nation, the economic collapse that Bush has merrily led us into, will arrive. ___ Maybe the Iraqis will send us food. ___ Maybe not.
We should not have to worry about a few starving families over in Iraq. The important thing is–Where is that oil we were supposed to get so we can drive our SUV`s more miles on cheaper fuel? And why is it taking so long to get our fabulous new embassy built so we can demonstrate what a real conservative, compassionate ,christian nation can accomplish?
They hate us for our freedom. The next terrorist attack, no doubt already in the works, will be further proof to George Inc. that these people are simply incapable of gratitude to Uncle Sam. All they understand is torture, hunger, and murder.
The occupiers have clearly failed their responsibility for the health and security of the Iraqi people. The occupiers caused the Iraqi economy to collapse with runaway inflation, majority unemployment, and broken utilities. The occupiers intentionally deprive the Iraqi people of basic necessities to suppress their political power. All of these crimes add to the original crimes that are the invasion/occupation, the intent to steal control of Iraq’s natural resources and political self-determination, and the genocide of a million Iraqis, injury of a million more, and displacement of four million, and severe traumatization of the entire population.
thaddeusstephens:
Thanks for the link. It is extremely useful in documenting things that can be remembered, but not quickly found. I bookmarked it.
No wonder they have so many kids, you never know how many of them will make it!
Thought reading technology? From an outfit as stupid as the U.S.A.? Quite an amusing intro, but I hardly think it could be applied to that vile scum, like Albright and her kind, who are devising their own destruction while thinking that they are surviving.
To be able to intercept and read another person’s thoughts it would be necessary to dexterously manipulate energy below a sub-subatomic level and those worthless morons couldn’t hardly make an atomic explosion with precision. To get down to a manipulative level of thought requires faculties that are not within the purview of humans, so take that ficticious dreaming to a site that is more receptive of such “Godly” interpretation.
For all Saddam’s sins, Iraq under Saddam had a better medical system and public education than the USA. But since that isnt saying much nowadays I had better add that it had the best medical and education systems in the middle east. People lived decent lives there.
1.2 million dead - 4 million refugees - an entire country destroyed
@ tj December 28th, 2007 4:31 pm
@ thaddeusstephens:
It was not the lack of food that killed. It was the lack of clean water. The majority of patients in Iraq’s hospitals were stricken with amoebic dysentery, gastroenteritis and other waterborne diseases. This is because the water treatmentment plants and the power generation plants that are needed to operate them were all deliberately targeted during the first gulf war, and then the of import of spare parts etc was blocked by the sanctions.
http://www.iraqwaterproject.com/docus/attack_water.htm
http://www.casi.org.uk/guide/distribution.html
jmacneil of little faith: Follow this link http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071218135946.bs66t179&show_article=1 to see a simple version of this technology in commercial development. I don’t know about you, but I turn my thoughts in my head into unspoken language and the Japanese company at that link translates the vibrations from eardrums formed by these unspoken thoughts into speech. And thanks, but I choose to post my comments where I choose as long as I’m allowed to by the moderator (kiss, kiss)…
and BeForKids: You say you would not dare to compare the difficulties living in the US with what we have done to the Iraqis. …’Nor does every family in the US have a member who has been killed or tortured or detained by the US.’ But you would dare to pass judgement on me who happens to be someone who has been tortured by the U.S. government for the past fourteen years in ways you haven’t heard of and can’t judge. Oh and thank you for passing judgement that it’s OK with you to post my comment if I were black…(- in which case you would be excused for your comment). I don’t need your permission. PS. BeForKids, maybe I was trying to stir up attention on my post because I think it is very important to let Americans know about this technology, even to the extent of inviting unpleasant consequences to myself. If people believed me about what the government is doing, we could have stopped this war for ‘democracy and freedom’ and saved the lives of those Iraqis who have suffered.
Oh but go ahead and vote for Hillary…’cas this tech started under her husbands administration and I’m sure she’ll expose it when she’s the ruler.
Slightly moved the link to
http://digg.com/gadgets/New_Phone_Headset_Allows_You_To_Speak_Through_Your_Ear?OTC-widget
I do believe you may have misunderstood BeForKids there Kathy, or perhaps she misunderstood your post and wasn’t clear or correct to you. She is a fine lady, a very compassionate nurse who loves people, she hates the war in iraq, what we have done there and believe me, she hates Hillary too.
Never mind, no Iraqi has any problem getting hold of weapons.
That alone almost defines them as Americans.
Thank you America…..?
Targeting water treatment facilities and other civilian infrastructure is a war crime. The US also did that in Yugoslavia in the 1990s.
Don’t forget the impact of depleted uranium on the health of targeted victims.
“Mission Accomplished”
All this well-covered in here (and sure to get-worse soon):
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7693
“The Post-Bush Regime: A Prognosis”
KEM PATRICK, Thank you.
No Child Left Benign.
Jesus! Isn’t it revolting and disgusting when such secret service trash like Kem Patrick and Kathy Heckman go down on each other on a progressive website? Yuck! And you know that anyone that they unconditionally endorse must be a servent of their disgusting cause. How much longer is the progressive community going to have to put up with such human profanity? Certainly not as long as those human scum think!
A slight correction, “Whatfools,” - - you’re right, it IS just like Gaza(and the whole Palestinian West Bank, for that matter, only the “correct terminology” is “gradual attrition.” Under the the direction of the Cheney/Bush group, however, the process has speeded up a bit - - must be more efficient, you know.
“In 2007, we asked for 3.2 billion dollars for rationing basic foodstuffs,” Mohammed Hanoun, Iraq’s chief of staff for the ministry of trade told al-Jazeera. “But since the prices of imported foodstuff doubled in the past year, we requested 7.2 billion dollars for this year. That request was denied.”
There’s your explanation. “We have no money” therefore food crisis. Simple politics. Just like the school programs that existed all along go bye-bye when the levy doesn’t pass.
To: Kem Patrick
I hope fervently that the people who write to this column every day will give due and serious attention to what you are saying.
With last night’s tragedy, the full exposure of the failure of this Administration’s adventures has become crystal clear. If Bush were an honorable man he would fall on his sword — except that he would slip and foul it all up.
So many of you people seem to want to talk and talk with nothing to offer of substance. Our only option is Impeachment, but how many have organized rallies, written letters to their editors, e-mailed all their friends, etc.?
People, time is running out on us.
Good contribution, Kem
jmacneil- does your momma know that you talk about others in such a revolting fashion. shame shame.
bligh December 28th, 2007 2:59 pm-=too funny but any damn fool should see that it’s painfully true.
BeForKids December 28th, 2007 3:11 pm, i guess your are not familiar with the family organization in the Middle East, a “family” like the Saudi “family” can include 2,000 people, besides the post was dipped in the art of sarcasm.
George shows he can starve Iraquis just as well as American families. See, he shows no partiality!
Starve the poor, all of them, that’s George Ws motto and his administration as well!
He’s a Thug, the name rethuglican suites him well.
Thank you Kem. I can’t say I hate Hillary, but the idea of her becoming president appalls me.
Kathy Heckman, I’m not judging you and the world is full of individual experiences, but there is a world of difference between living in the US and living in Iraq. And Kem is right, I did assume you were referring to low income Americans in general, based on how you framed the issues you addressed.
Barn Burner, I’m not referring to the “clan” connections as family, but out of a country of 25 million people, with over 1 million dead since Bush invaded, and who knows how many Iraqis have been detained and “mistreated”, that works out to a minimum of one in 25 dead alone.
Please explain the sarcasm, since none was intended.
Maybe the Bush admin. is trying a new method for deterring terrorism- starve the children before they can grow up and seek revenge on the Son of the Great Satan, or simply Great Satan II
What about the king of junk food — candy — that the troops give to the Iraqi children after killing their parents. Doesn’t that count? Do they pay the Iraqi children’s dental bills after they eat all that sugary candy and develop cavities from it? Maybe the troops should share an apple or an orange with the kids instead. Oh but that would be more expensive than the cheap candy. My bad, I’m concerned about children’s health
I don’t have a clue as to where you came from JMACNEIL. But I am aware that recently there have been several people such as yourself, who have begun posting here at Common Dreams. Then there are some who have been here for some time. You all seem to hit on some of the bloggers who post frequently and attempt to stir up discontent with false accuastions, such as you just posted about me for no logical or apparent reason. I hope everyone is aware of your tactics to disrupt this fine site and attempt to eventually destroy it. I hope everyone ignores your rants until you finally change your name and slink back with a new code name. You people are workng together, it’s clear what you are attempting.
They will sign over the oil rights after the women and children starve to death..
I suppose it’ll safe AmeriKKKa dollars in bullets to simply murder them….
Thankk you BUSTERKIKI, after that from out of nowhere blast from JMACNIEL, who is worse than a troll, a person who displays an evil mind, I do appreciate the kudo.
Why that detractor says I’m a secret service agent is beyond me. I’m a retired disabled vet, more than half blind and almost 73 years old. Yes, I do post a lot of comments here at Common Dreams. By far, mostly on DU, atomic waste and global warming issues. So if I’m a secet service agent, they are in worse troubele than any imagined.
I love people, especialy the children of the world, ALL of them. I have been stationed in over 12 different countries, some for as long as two years, some for only a few months. I have learned that we humans really are all the same, we generally all wish to have a better life for our children. Those imaginary lines drawn on maps do not really exist.
It is the very few who control the wealth of the world who divide us, cause racial tensions and wars, who control elections and buy politicians and kill those who they fear and cannot control.
Beware of bloggers here like JMACNEIL, MISANTHORPE and those like them, who come here and often write nice things for a time to gain favor and then begin to undermine others and start shit fights and disrupt a good thread.
There are several now, not just some who may offer very diverse opinions, like the occasional far to right extremests, these detractors like Jmacneil are moles, who wish to destroy this fine Common Dreams site, where we visit and share posts to learn from one another. We don’t always agree with one another, but we don’t have to start unnecessary fights, which only help to drive newcomers away and disgust everyone. We also should have as much fun as possible, even though we are presently in a situation, due to the Bush Cartel, where fun is a bit difficult to have. Nothing funny about them.
Without attempting to sicken anyone, “You are welcome, Kathy”. I’m very glad you and Befurkids are not angry with one another. I imagine you are as nice as she is. She and another blogger, KATHYODAT, who sadly is no longer with us, were very close. We have hundreds of fine people posting here, beware of the ones who are not so fine.
Good response, Kem! Be assured that all of us on this page know you and respect you. And support you!
Well Thank you also SHAKES, my day is made. I am glad so many are aware of those detractors. Ya know, by far most who come here, are very intelligent. I could easily pick out a full Senate from the bloggers we have. And several who I’d wish to see in the White House. Kathyodat was always my number one pick, but she is no longer with us. Thank you again Shakes.
BTW, I’m far from a perfect person, and I know it. Sometimes I anger people and sometimes I’m overly rude to others. I’m human. If I ever do offend any here, please forgive me, because sometimes I’m a little stupid. ___ Can’t spel good either.
I miss KATHYODAT, Kem what happened? If there was a person on the ball it was Him! Yo spell fine.
P.S. Did anyone think the US would out do Saddam in taking care of Iraq? It was his home after all. We (as in the US government) dont want the people just the resources. Look what we did for the natives here. We(the US)killed and murdered them in their sleep even. Do I have to mention Vietnam?
while many have noted the criminality of the US and the Iraq govt in starving the people, what i don’t hear is the direct analysis of intent to kill by starvation. the powers that be DO believe in eugenics and they practice it around the world. starvation is one of their tactics. back in the 1960’s-70’s when birth control was a hot topic, the catholic church opposed it vehemently in the usa but supported it in puerto rico where 35% of women of child bearing age were sterilized. in peru the govt went in and inserted iud’s in women in the small mountain villages and then left. they could wait a generation for the village to depopulate itself so corporations could go in and claim the mountains for the mineral wealth. today we have CODEX which seeks to “harmonize” food around the world. the plan is to remove access to all holistic food, promote gmo seeds that monsanto totally controls, and only provide calories that offer no health but promote illness and death. flouride in water that can make a population lethargic and brain impaired is another big effort to control and destroy people.
so while we agonize over the details of the lack of food rations, it is more important to understand the genocidal intent. the so-called iraqi government is under total control of the usa and is participating in the destruction of the people of that nation. get rid of the people and there is no one to claim the oil for themselves. and what is even better, no one left to fight about it.
the people who are running this world today think of people as ants to be either used or killed when no longer of use. the values of these people are strictly about money and power. the spin about democracy is nothing other than spin for mass confusion. capitalism and democracy are diametrically opposed to each other. for capitalism to exist in a real democracy, requires massive controls to keep them from abusing the people and environment. in the meantime, people are still arguing as if they have someone to talk with in the government. there is no one there to listen. but what we do have ist he slow attrition of our freedoms as mapped out with the constitution and the bill of rights. we have a unitary executive–cute language! translated, a totalitarian executive that says they are exempt from following any laws of congress. we have lost habeas corpus. we have concentration camps set up in this country in preparation for martial law and any resistence. we have poisoned brains–1:155 children with autism today and no one is screaming about this. we have flouride in water dulling the population and vaccines and medical drugs that weaken the immune system and mind.
the list of attacks on the populace goes on forever. what gets me enraged is the way that people are not putting it together, acting as if each little attack on us is an isolated incident that becomes the complaint of the week.
folks, we are in big trouble if we dont get our acts together. the beginning, for me, is to call it like it is. eugenics is alive and well and iraq, just like new orleans, is all part of the their process.
“Thankk you BUSTERKIKI, after that from out of nowhere blast from JMACNIEL, who is worse than a troll, a person who displays an evil mind, I do appreciate the kudo.
Why that detractor says I’m a secret service agent is beyond me. I’m a retired disabled vet…”
Or, so we all read…
In actuality, no one knows who, here, is speaking as an individual and who may be ‘paid to disrupt’ (like the young/activist/smartass-attorneys who Propagandized first-and-famously for Nixon — while self-named the “Rat-F*ckers”). They, too, publicly pretended to be an ‘activist’ — while actually doing/saying things that ‘hurt liberal-Causes’. I assume that this is what jmacneil accused you of by his insinuation of SS-alliance? Then, you repeatedly intimated/argued that he better-fit that unfounded-description/labeling.
I just Googled both of you here at commondreams.org, and re-scanned Hundreds of your Comments here to examine all for their consistencies/tenor/tone/’message’…in an effort to determine whether either of you may be such a Troll (having a constructed/false-Persona, deliberately ’stirring up crap’, and disrupting the majority’s honest-communications and messaging/progressive-information in CD).
He looks pretty-consistent, KEM. [Always anti-Conservative and critical of “corporatized-government, sheeple letting it happen, and anti-’Conservative Talking-points’.”
But I now can well-understand why he came to the conclusion that YOU [and perhaps many-others in a possible ongoing-clique of ‘long-term Posters here’] may be “such a Troll”, yourself (whether-or-not you, in fact, are one).
I cannot ‘know’ sitting-here who may be-such [nor can YOU, sir]. But KEM, taken as a whole, you seem to ‘hit all the buttons’ in trying to present great (but ultimately ‘inconsistent’) details about yourself — rather than the Causes you purportedly represent. A Vet, a disabled-person, an oldster, someone ‘highly-educated and in-the-know’ — while simultaneously a ‘good-old-boy’ and ‘country-cousin’ who, much like a phony Bush-43, deliberately misspells/typos your ‘erstwhile/redundant-responses’ that “protest overmuch” . You often compliment and ’share alliances’ with many-here, but then seemingly dump on many or get way ‘off-track’ (but seemingly _only_ when they offer some real-Insight into anti-Progressive viewpoints or ‘edge towards relevant-Truths’ — _never_ when they just ‘blather’ or Vent). Your participation seems entirely geared towards spreading-Dissonance, or ‘killing hope’ (when ‘needs-be’, and usually with nonsense about “DU killing-all within 3-years, so bye-bye” — or some-such). And yet, you always return to ‘lets all be positive and nicey-nice in here’, and “you know me, I only spread the Truth” (as if the ‘messenger’ was more important than the Message in a public-venue/forum).
Whoever you really-’are’, KEM [and personally, I couldn’t care-less — so Can any responsive-Rant], if I had to identify probable “Trolls” here in CD, you’d subsequently occupy a much-higher position on such-List than jmacneil would. He ALWAYS just states his-positions, and lets all judge his opinions on their Merits, without a lot of personalized-inveigling or contradictory/off-topic nonsense such as fills many of your-Comments.
I try to ‘know’ people in here “by their Fruits”, and apply ‘Quo Bono’ to the likely-intents for their projected-Personalities and Opinions. jmacneil’s overall messaging in CD.org is perfectly-clear as a whole — he is certainly no conservative-mole/troll (your-Pedigree, however, is ‘questionable’).
How about, in future, we just quit all of this “throwing stones” at each-other (particularly those of us in glass-houses), and refocus again upon the ‘real-and dangerous Villains’ (some perhaps in-our-midst, but most of them out-there — in our government/corporate/media/military-sectors).
The real-Enemy isn’t fellow-Posters in CD, folks. It’s your much-loved, wealthy, celebrated, greedy ‘Leaders’ and Mythos of an ‘America’ (that never really-was) and its intents/purposes towards pursuing its Interests.
This starvation starting in Iraq (yet-again!) is just the obvious ‘impetus intended’ to secure passage of some minor Oil-theft/privatization — and it pales in comparison to what the Dems will bring, soon, to the entire developing-world:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7693
The ‘Realists’ and the Interests-they-serve (which fuels this neo-Lib/Con ’speeding train’ within-which NONE of us are disinterested-parties or “neutral”) have been winning in the US for many-generations, now — and increasingly.
As jmacneil wrote in http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/13/5816/ with his usual abrupt-clarity:
“The returning veterans commit suicide because they are sent on a mission that has no moral value and is not in pursuit of a realistic solution. The soldiers, even though they are of a lower tier of intelligence, have feelings the same as anyone, and when they are instructed to kill other humans for no valid reason, then of course there is going to be disastrous consequences for their normally weak mental cognizance.
There will never be an honorable mental peace for serving soldiers so long as they are used in unjust wars which are designed solely to increase the profit of a sect of evil profiteers.”
And I responded with:
” “Wow. That’s one of the more patronizing, insulting things I’ve heard in a while. I’m a leftist with no support in my heart for any war, it never works. But I also know a lot of people involved in the military, and they are as diverse a bunch as you’ll find anywhere else. There is no dearth of intelligence, just a generally different set of priorities and perceptions. There is nothing to be gained by making classist, hateful comments about these folks.”
[Me:] If that summary ‘bothered’ you, then you’ll love the following (from someone directly-involved in the use-of and in sending those Troops places to ‘do things’:
“Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” Henry Kissinger, speaking to Al Haig (quoted by Woodward&Bernstein)
That was back in the Nixon WhiteHouse, shortly after I was one of those Troops, myself — what jmacneil said is FAR less “patronizing and insulting”, imho…and more-accurate.
Read more, from this ‘brilliant-Realist’ who still advises BushCo (especially Cheney) and ‘inspires’ all current-Realists like Perle:
“I can think of no faster way to unite the American people behind George W. Bush than a terrorist attack on an American target overseas. And I believe George W. Bush will quickly unite the American people through his foreign policy.” HK — pre-9/11
“I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.” HK — after Allende’s election, pre-Assassination&Pinochet
“Today, America would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the world government.” HK — taped by Swiss-diplomat at secretive Bilderburg-Conf., 1991
“Depopulation should be the highest priority of foreign policy towards the third world, because the US economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less developed countries.” HK — attributed by Leuren Moret
And, lest you think such ‘Realism’ is a symptom of only ‘modern-times/problems’, compare all-above with this — from George Kennan of the U.S. State Department in 1948:
“The US has about 50% of the world’s wealth but only 6.3% of its population. In this situation we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security. To do so we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and daydreaming, and our attention will have to be concentrated everywhere on our immediate national objectives. We need not deceive ourselves that we can afford the luxury of altruism and world benefaction. We should cease to talk about such vague and unreal objectives as human rights, the raising of living standards and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better.” ”
My Point being — it’s these Realists (and those they serve as intellectual-ideologues/lick-spittles) that are marching us to ruin, and increasingly destroying the ‘weak of the world’. If/when Americans themselves CHOOSE, finally, to forgo many of their unearned/inherent Privileges and ‘entitlements’ and Prides, in favor of secular-Humanism and Justice and Truth, then maybe you can see some positive-changes on this sorry-planet [but, not-until].
That was My Point, then-and-now…and you may want to adopt-such as your-own.
America was Founded as a Tool/exemplar of ‘the strong taking from the weak’, while skilled at ’spinning’ its real-Nature. Americans, however, are no-more ‘evil’ or difficult to understand than any other grouping/Society — like all-others they/we are generally kind and decent and fall easy Prey to our ‘lesser-Natures’ when we can cover-them with self-or-induced Mythos and rationalization. Our Realists/pundits/leaders help us along that Pathway — and will hurry-us along it unless WE tell them “No”.
To do that, we must all find ways to Unite ourselves, and conjoin our real/Shared-interests — not allow wallowed-in Dissonance to divide-and-conquer our ‘better-Natures’ and truth-seeking [primarily because ‘the truth hurts’, and facing it won’t be easy for most of us].
Starvation is a great incentive to spark a revolution. It’s happened down through the centuries in many places around the world. So, someone will light the match again to start it back up in Iraq! I don’t imagine Bush has any difficulty sleeping nights. You have to have some semblance of a conscious to not sleep! We all know by now Saddam didn’t have a thing on George W Bush. One is about as cruel as the other.
Let’s see;
Hussein was executed for killing 140,000. Bush was re-elected for killing 1.2 million and counting. Hussein fed his people better than Bush feeds his, i.e. Katrina, You Bush women look closely now, it’s spelled K A T RI N A. And Barb? The Blacks did NOT like living in the Dome, NOR do they enjoy having their “leaders” sell them out to your handlers, the Corporations. Fortunately, the lemmings your family “leads” are too scared, ignorant and authoritarian to put “sonny boy” on trial for war crimes like he did Hussein. Boy, your foul family and friends sure read US like a book huh? A nation of sheep, led by a cartel of whores, controlled by Israel/big business. Welcome,..to the REAL Evil Empire.
Starvation (when ‘intentional’) has most-often quashed Revolutions…not “inspired them”.
And Saddam was placed in-Power TO kill-thousands ‘of his own-People’…not executed for essentially “doing his job”.
Yes, Hussein fed his people (would you not, were you him?). So what?
That people (blacks-or-otherwise) didn’t care for that Dome is not-surprising/relevant. That the NatGuard (well-trained for such an event) were conveniently-’elsewhere’, and that the food-stuffs/water ALWAYS stored in that-Dome for such-an-event (why all&many were constantly TOLD by FEMA to go-there should they ever not-evacuate a hurricane — albeit Brownie ‘never knew they were there’ for 3-days after even TV-crews found-them, readily) were recently Removed-also — THOSE are far more-Telling.
This Empire is not ‘evil’, necessarily, but it DOES serve-best its selected/beneficent-Interests — not the Peons/People’s-interests…
Saddam’s was little-different…[if ‘different’, at-all]. The ‘real’ distinction is that HE met some Justice.
At least Sadddam Hussein took care of its people, something the US fails miserably. Why is it that no matter where the US goes, shit is sure to follow.
All I can say is “Jesus!”
I disagree about the Clinton / Albright sanctions. It was a carrot and stick approach to get Saddam under control. They underestimated his hold over the Iraqi people.
Bush and Cheney, however, should burn in hell.
Is there a charity that would take donations? What would be the effect on the treasury if every American gave all his/her tax deductible charity to the Iraqi people? I’m pretty naieve in this area. (Church, Special Olympics, Boy Scouts…when they ask.) Just an idea.
Common Dreams: “SADDAM PROVIDED MORE FOOD THAN THE US”
US provided more KFC/McD to Baghdad* than Saddam so there.
(* In participating Green Zones only.)
ME-ALSO-TOO. Since you have chosen to post a lengthy ppost concering how youo fel about me, I will reply. That was a very interesting post you just gave about me, thank you. Naturaly you are correct, by and large, few of us really knows the other posters, except I do know five people very well who have posted here frequently, including Kaythodat and Linda Faye Kroll and two others I won’t name, who have posted on this thread. They are friends of mine and I of them, yet they did not get into the discussion concernig myself and JMacneil. we share E-mail, letters and pictures. If I was different that what I have ever professed to be here on this site, they would have called me on it and would not be my friend.
As for you saying I have professed to be of high intelligence, that is a lie, I’ve never ever posted I was intelligent or highly educated, in fact just the opposite is the truth. I often am overwhelmed by the intellect many here possess, including perhaps you. I am undereducated, a high school dropout with a GED and then two years of college credits. I seldom attempt to offer intelectual or technical data, with out stating it is not my opinions, but those of the scientists or doctors I am quoting. I often say that I am only offering the opinions of scientist or doctors I choose to trust and then offer links, wherby any who wish to read them can make up their own minds as to whether DU, atomic power or global waming is a real danger.
As to getting into personal matters, such as being a vet, married fo r50 years, losing a child once, almost blind, my age, where I live and a few times very personal things of life, that is because I have often answered others in friendly conversations here, such a Cindy Sheehan. Over time, many such things have come up. I fear I have posted more than anyone else here in the past five months, even surpassing Siouxrose. I can’t really do a lot other than sit here and read, I can’t drive now and we live in an isolated area of the SW mountains and we can’t garden in the winter. So I come to Common Dreams, read and post and try to be fun, but very serious on the issues of DU, Atomic Power and global warming.
Yes indeed, those are most serious issues and if we don’t clean up our act, it will destroy this planet and kill all of humanity. I don’t believe however that I ever said it will happen in three years. Many world renound scientists have said the methane gas in the Arctic may ‘burp’ in the next five to ten years and that would be the beginning of the end.
In spite of all of that, this JMACNEIL, whom you seem to be enamored with, often has dissagreed with me and I with him on those important issues, that’s fine. But his going off on me on this thread, in the obscene manner he did yesterday, is absolutely uncalled for and he showed himself for what he is. So you can have your friend there and support him as you wish. I won’t, and now wonder where you are coming from. I notice you often disagree with others here who have posted commmon sense statements about what our government is doing that is damaging the atmosphere and the enviroment etc.
If any wish ot ignore my posts, that is their perogative, yet any who wish to attack me personally, I will respond. You have done so in a clever way of wording, so as to sound like a reasonable person a “good guy”. That is how these troll teams operate, very intelligent rat fu##kers, as you noted, protecting one another and very slick talkers. “Thank you” again, it was interesting.
Please excuse the intrusions there and the distractions from the purpose of this important article. That’s what happens when those such as JMACNEIL and his supportes arrive on a thread. Please excuse the spelling errors on the prior post also, the edit feature did not work.
I see you have disgreed with most of the posters here on the issue ME ALSO TOO, in a rather slick underhanded manner, supporting our current administration’s position on Iraq.
Ahmed Ali and Dahr Jamail say: The government also wants to reduce the number of people depending on the rationing system by five million by June 2008.
Two things come to mind - firstly, comparisons to Bush’s strategy to get people off welfare (without providing child care or economically sufficient jobs). Secondly, there was Mayoral candidate Peter Kaufmann who said that he would eliminate food banks because he saw them as unfair competition for his small chain of local grocery stores.
Saddam Hussain had less money at his disposal and was skimming a bit off the top and still was able to provide more food for his people. This leads one to believe that it is America’s Kaufmann-like pressure which is behind this cut rather than a shortage of funds.
Under Saddam Hussain, many children died because SH did not fix the water treatment plants so the kids were drinking tainted water. Why didn’t SH fix the water treatment plants which were bombed out during the first gulf war? According to the Mennonites (of which my province has a sizable population), the Americans considered many of the materials needed to fix the water treatment plants “duel use” - meaning that SH could not obtain the materials because the Americans figured SH would use the materials alloted to fix water treatment plants
Adding chlorine to tainted water probably makes it worse rather than better. I just changed the Brita late last night and I can think clearly again (very allergic to chlorine). Thus, there is no real substitution to fixing a water treatment plant.
formernadervoter says: Why did I know that in clicking on this story it would not link from a corporate mainstream American newspaper?
This seems to me the type of story that would have been bumped for Bhutto coverage so hopefully we see something on it in the mainstream Canadian and British Media soon (CNN seems more interested in Paris Hilton than real news these days). Found the story in Aljazeera coverage (with different authors- December 18, 2007):
Iraq set to slash food rations
The cuts, to be introduced at the beginning of 2008, have prompted criticism from those who have already warned of social unrest if measures are not taken to address rising poverty and unemployment.
Mohammed Hanoun, the Iraqi trade minister’s chief of staff, told Al Jazeera that a request for $7.2bn to cover 10 basic items currently rationed and subsidised by the government had been rejected.
“In 2007, we asked for $3.2 billion for rationing basic foodstuffs. But since the prices of imported food stuff doubled in the past year, we requested $7.2 billion for this year. That request was denied.” …
Iraqi officials have resisted scrapping the programme altogether for fear of a public backlash.
Instead, they have opted for a gradual decrease in subsidised food items.
(link cut in half because stretching page)
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F80EB18B-84C5-4939-9250-004F6697D8F2.htm?FRAM
ELESS=true&NRNODEGUID=%7bF80EB18B-84C5-4939-9250-004F6697D8F2%7d
TruOrange says: How Rush and Anne and others are going to spin this story: / Rush and Anne: Saddam started the system in which he made Iraqis dependent on government instead of dependent on themselves! See what good we did in removing him. Finally, the Iraqi’s have a chance to depend on themselves and their own ability, instead of waiting for government handouts.
smile. Seems like you don’t believe them either when they say that they got all these Americans off the Welfare rolls - that they’ve actually gone on to something better. Even in Canada, many of those who use food banks are the working poor.
RuthK, never heard of the term “food sovereignty” before - or seen it defined.
BeForKids says: kathy Heckman, I would not dare to compare the difficulties living in the US with what we have done to the Iraqis. We do not have a nation of seriously traumatized malnourished children.
You are both right. As far as abject poverty, probably not - though our treatment of native peoples and the people of New Orleans is still pretty bad - and the concept of choosing between groceries and rent is common in North American cities which have never experienced rent controls. However, the strategies and PR are the same. Note that what they really wish to do is to scrap the food ration program but figure that the will be less social protest if they just reduce the scope of the program slowly - this has been tried for everything from libraries and health care to - er - well everything. First you starve a program and then you scrap it.
Also, why has the cost of food more than doubled? I am sure that the Taliban is not paying that much for the food that they are offering to new recruits. There are two groups of Taliban - those “true believers” and those whose sole religious/political belief incentive is to keep their children from starving.
You remember Tom Fox who died after being kidnapped in Iraq? He was kidnapped with three others and one of them, James Loney, talked of a kidnapper which the four of them nicknamed “junior” - who had lost his fiancee and most of his family to bombing and was thinking of becoming a suicide bomber until Loney talked him out of it. Death of family members makes one feel, not only that they have nothing to live for, but also very angry at those they hold responsible for freeing them from the burden of family members.
jmacneil, you comments against Kathy et al are a bit much and neither have done anything to warrant it on this thread - which is the only thread that counts. jungleboy - re what happened - my guess is old history. Back to topic.
jungleboy says: P.S. Did anyone think the US would out do Saddam in taking care of Iraq? It was his home after all.
Yes. But not to this degree. After Bush’s treatment of Joyce Milgaard (David Milgaard’s mother) when he was Governor of Texas I started disliking him. And when Bush said that he was going to cut down on peace keeping missions I didn’t, like all the wishful thinkers in the media, figure that he was going to cut down on military missions - I knew it was a redirection. Bush showed himself, even before he became President as someone with little disregard for human life.
Think of it, though, if the US would not let them fix the water treatment plants - how much respect could they have for Iraqi life? And note also that the Politicians were debating in Question Period whether or not to join the war in Iraq while trying to get Arar released and returned to Canada. Thus, we were witnessing some of the Administrations ugliness just prior to the start of the war in Iraq.
tamarque says: while many have noted the criminality of the US and the Iraq govt in starving the people, what i don’t hear is the direct analysis of intent to kill by starvation. the powers that be DO believe in eugenics and they practice it around the world.
Good point! I think that is the elephant in the room of every article on food sanctions no one wishes to call by name. Heard somewhere that there have been whole villages cleared by people. Starving people are also more susceptible to diseases.
As far as the history of North America and genocide - it started fairly early. Eric Robinson co-wrote a book called “Infested Blanket” about the genocidal practices directed against the native peoples by the Canadian government. And the American practices were presumably worse than that.
Eric Robinson is a former Chief and present Manitoba Minister of Culture, Heritage, Tourism and Sport - presumably taking the position to help reverse the “cultural genocide” inflicted on the Native Peoples during the era of residential schools. We didn’t just try to kill them through starvation and disease but also by stripping them systematically of their identity.
Likewise, never think that there is only a one pronged approach going on in Iraq whenever you hear the phrase “western values” being tossed about. The distinction between “human rights” and “western values” tends to get a bit blurred in the North American media.
BTW, in keeping with the talk about potable water - I wonder what proportion of the “water advisories” in Canada are on reserves!
Got to run. Good comments. Keep them coming.
Fixed link - in 15 minutes when edit goes through page will return to normal.
Re: That’s what happens when those such as JMACNEIL
Leave it alone. We should be attacking ideas - not each other. And I don’t care who started it.
All through Iraq are huge graineries and within spitting distance bombed out (by America) fertlizer factories. The graineries don’t hold food but house American forward outposts. Hundreds of chicken farms scattered throughout Iraq - never saw one operating. When they talk of the Iraqi middle class moving to other surrounding countries, you’re talking about the people who ran those facilities moving on. Disturbing? I hope so.
Then the power lines. From Baghdad to near Tikrit, over a hundred miles, 95% of the power line stands knocked out. The only ones missed were the ones that the F-16 could not make a tight enough turn to hit. It is embarrassing to be American.
The American military needs a lot more people who have a broad education.
If anyone on this site accuses another fellow blogger of bein a government spy, We know they are full of it if they continue to post.
revealing an agent in the War on terror will get you in big trouble…. Maybe not… I am still wondering why they haven’t taken me away yet.
We are in a world revolution folks… this is an internet driven revolt so the more we start acting like our Forefathers and realize how big the system is and that nobody invented it or is in control of it.. this world system evolved and Skull and Bones know how to take advantage of it …we may be secretly envious of there clannish secret methods because they work in our Jungle oriented War economy system like the Clans that they destroyed (Indians) along the way… George Bush and the Queen have no more ability to change that soon than you and me… It is gonna evolve for the better or for the worse and the Revolution is about evolving for the better… So our anger means we care but it is not conducive to uniting us for the struggle we are in. This is meant for David Michael Green’s article too “Your damn right I am angry, Why isn’t everybody?”
This medium is especially hard to organize on because we cant see the body posture and expression of each other and since we mistrust the airwaves and wires from government snooping that just makes us more quick to take offense at a comment said by a name on your screen….
Our opposition, Example: Skull and Bones or any fraternity type group or union knows how to work together and it starts with a positive attitude to your fellow tribes.
It is the future…. like the Lakota are gonna do and the Seminole …it is local … Don’t expect to go to the streets and yell revolution and start breakin stuff and make the world better.
We have to try a little Love with the anger…
Viva the Revolution!
KEM…
And this, ‘more about nothing’, only because you didn’t heed my advice freely-given and proceeded to prove jmacneil’s initial-contention (which I STILL don’t agree-with, or care-about)…
I am now curious, where — on this still-Green earth — did you derive the preposterous-notion that what I wrote-above somehow implies that I was ever “supporting our current administration’s position”, ‘underhandedly’-or-otherwise, on Iraq — or anything-else (but, in particular, on Iraq)?
A joke?
Or more of the unfounded-twisting you imply regularly for jmacneil and others so like-minded to my-own viewpoint (and KEM, I am no ’supporter’ of him, nor do I know any more about him than I do you — I know both of you ONLY from ‘your Fruits here in CD’).
Five-hundred people in here who e-mail or otherwise remotely-chat/interact with you, tells me absolutely nothing-else about you, either (any good-Troll can accomplish such ‘verifications’ based on stuff&nonsense). But, my POINT throughout in posting on this sub-topic at-all was to say ‘it doesn’t matter who is a troll, or who isn’t’ [and you are quite-correct in suspecting that I may-well be such a paid-Realist and dissonance-spreader/operative myself — I am, in fact, very well-qualified and experienced for such a Position, and will entertain any offers for same — forthwith!). However, I speak in here, to date, as just yet-another opinionated-asshole (and am willing to accept, fully, your claim for Same, or jmacneil’s). So, why shouldn’t you for others?
If we actually-are attracting paid-Trolls and Rovian-wannabe’s — then ‘Good’. And Welcome. This would show we are ‘dangerous to this Administration and those they lick-spittle for’ — and I personally appreciate such a Compliment (as should you — it beats believing we are ‘whistling in the dark’).
I did NOT post about You, sir (it ain’t all-about-you, kiddo), much less “lengthily”. I expressly said ‘I could not care less’ about You — [I am ‘issue-oriented’, and give not-a-care about any personalities in here, much-less correspond with them (you, Cindy, Scott, whoever) to build ’social-networks’ or ‘proof’ that “I yam what I yam”].
I don’t want to know any-of-you, either — I want to learn from you, exchange viewpoints with you, etc. — but frankly, I am sick of hearing “all about you”, KEM PATRICK, and/or your little temper-tantrums in this Forum — and have been treated to far too-many such, myself.
I can indeed quote many-instances of your bragging ‘intelligence/education’ (although reading War&Peace thrice-over seems like more like you may be ’sundowning’ in this stage-of-life?). We all can Google everyone’s entire posting-History in Commondreams, and then use the browser Find-function to quickly quote everything we ALL have ever ’said’, publicly, in here. Trust me, you often brag about your supposed-intellect/’inside-knowledge’, while just-as-often deny the same (one of those inconsistencies I mentioned above — not that such proves-anything, other than you are ‘inconsistent’, frequently).
I, too, am a disabled Vietnam vet (one well-sick of lying chicken-hawks and young-punks claiming-same on many Forums while ’safe behind keyboards — care to exchange DD-214’s?). I, too, am older-than-dirt, married-thrice to same-woman over nearly 45-years, lost my son recently [why I am more-than-little Insane, since-and-still, or I’d never have started posting Openly in CD.org!], have an Intel-background/contacts, also a dropout-cum-GED-cum-post-Grad education (due to a once-functional GI-Bill –what’s your excuse?), and I’ve more than ‘paid my dues’ here/elsewhere as far as expressing my Opinions. And all-that means ‘what’, exactly? That I must have been a young-idiot once, or I’d NOT be a disabled-Vet?
I don’t DWELL on ‘who I am’, KEM — I seek the Truth, and also tell a little of it.
I can quote you exactly-saying we’d/our-kids would CERTAINLY all be dead of DU in 3-years — and you well-know it.
[And G-d knows how many times I can quote-you bitching about the Edit-function here! Give it a rest (it always works for Me).
But again, ’so what’?
Maybe jmacneil IS a conservative-Troll (but if he is, then he [or, presumptively, ‘I’] REALLY SUKS at his-job!). You, I’m less-certain about…but if you are such a RF’er, you do a fine-job of spreading-Dissonance and getting Comments off-Topic — you’ll thus “go far” [but, you’re NOT good-enough or bright-enough for the Secret-Service, so I wouldn’t go THERE…].
You and I and many-here ARE ‘quite-Intelligent’ [and that, plus a buck-and-a-half, might get us a coffee — somewhere, someday?]. Plenty of trolls/assholes are intelligent, also (mores-the-Pity!).
I want to focus here on Messages, NOT messengers like you, me, or jmacneil. Would you just lay-back and let that happen, please? [This ain’t the KEM PATRICK Forum, ya know?]
Finally (and I mean it, this time), thank you for an ‘interesting time’, also. I think we all entertain each other on CD a little-bit (and there’s nothing wrong with that, right?).
ME ALSO TOO, I do believe It was not I who started this rather disgusting crap in the first place, and I never do start them. Then YOU chose to become involved.
Then you, who say you could care less about Kem Patrick, did then indeed write a legthy post, telllng all, that I was not such a nice guy, since you had gone back to the archives and read my 800 or so posts and took a few words of mine, out of context, to prove your points, for whatever reason you bothered you to do that.
That is precicely what trolls do to disrupt this site and eventually attempt take it over and ruin it. The government, or our current administration, does not like this site. Whether you are one or not, you wrote like one and support one. So don’t attempt to deny that with another lengthy post.
Yes, you did argue the points many others had posted here on the subject, in essense you did indeed defend the current admisitration with your wording, whether you relaize it or not. I do suspect you indeed do realize it however.
As I have said previously, I primarily come here to learn, not get into sily and often rude arguments with people like JMACNEIL, MESANTHORPE and you. And if you or they don’t appreciate my rude comebacks, they should not start a silly fight. If one ignores rudeness, they deserve what is handed to them.
Hi KEM,
OMG! He’s back….I left you a message at the Pfizer article…got to it later than the rest of you. KEM please go back to it and read my comments.
I think you should not engage in defending yourself in any way. You seem like a fine person to me. I always enjoy reading your posts and thoughts on the subject at hand.
Re this article: I said at the outset of the war in (or is it on?) Iraq,…seems mighty stupid to ruin a country and its people to bring it Democracy. But, then we realized late this was a lame excuse for plundering the country for OIL and influence of it’s neighbors for same. The shame is on the USA for being the biggest bully on the planet. All the double-speak coming out of the govt. mouths means nothing.
Marianne
Re - If anyone on this site accuses another fellow blogger of bein a government spy
It is a public board so I doubt that this would disqualify someone from participating - though their employer may not like them devulging so much.
Who is this “Skull and Bones” everyone keeps talking about? I’m from Canada - the closest thing to a secret society I know of is the SPP - and we know who attended (ok, maybe not me personally).
RE - George Bush and the Queen
The Queen makes a point of not getting involved in politics - I wish that George Bush would do the same.
Re - The graineries don’t hold food but house American forward outposts. Hundreds of chicken farms scattered throughout Iraq - never saw one operating.
Where have all the farmers gone? What are they now doing for food and the crops lay in their fields unharvested or unstored?
Re - It is embarrassing to be American.
We have Stephen Harper. Let’s have a contest as to who leaves office first. Hope we win. Starting to doubt it.
RE - to quickly quote everything we ALL have ever ’said’, publicly, in here.
My brother used to do that to me. My mother gave him shit for it. If you are reading this now baby brother, I’m still waiting for you to install that tap in the basement!
That is why I enjoy my favorite soap - Question Period so much. This is what our politicians do to each other - never forget anything that the other has ever said or done.
Hon. Dominic LeBlanc (Beauséjour, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I guess the muzzling continues.
I know the Minister of International Trade likes to consider himself above politics while depriving his constituents of democracy, but he should not put his own personal interests above being accountable and protecting the integrity of his own government.
With Canada and the United States set to return to the bargaining table in June, will the minister at least give the Prime Minister his assurance that he will not once again cross the floor and join the American softwood negotiating team?
Hon. David Emerson (Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I have declared all my financial positions with all my assets. I had developed with the conflict commissioner a recusal that was in effect when I was serving under the previous government. That same recusal has been updated and it applies today.
I shake my head at the hypocrisy of the hon. member. Those hon. members were very happy to have my involvement in softwood lumber and other forest policy business, but now they have changed their minds.
xxxxxxxxxxx
I wonder how things are going in Afghanistan in contrast with Iraq. The United States is involved in that arena as well. Ten dollars on combat for ever dollar we spend on aid (ie food, water, infrastructure) - I guess that shows us our priorities!
Mr. Paul Dewar (Ottawa Centre, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the total cost of Canada’s participation in the war in Afghanistan is mounting. It is now pegged at $3.1 billion since the war’s start in 2001. Yesterday the defence minister admitted that the costs of the war were inevitably going to get higher and higher.
Canadians are paying for an ill-planned, poorly executed and dangerous mission, a mission that has no exit strategy. Commanders admit there is no military win to be had in Afghanistan.
Could the minister tell the House what the total cost for Canada will be by February 2009?
Mr. Deepak Obhrai (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, CPC): Mr. Speaker, this government has provided the Canadian Forces with the tools and the protection they need to maintain a high level of activity and intensity in a very remote and undeveloped region. They are conducting more joint operations, mentoring more Afghan police and Afghan soldiers and are facilitating long term reconstruction and development in that country
Unlike the Liberals who starved the armed forces and did not give them the right tools, this government is working to provide the soldiers with what they need for an effective mission in Afghanistan.
Mr. Paul Dewar (Ottawa Centre, NDP): Mr. Speaker, it should be noted that I asked a very specific question and all I got was jingoistic ballyhoo.
Canadians want to know what the cost of the war is. It is too bad the minister cannot figure it out.
The cost has increased by a half billion dollars in the last six months alone. If Canada continues on this current track, the war could cost $4.1 billion by 2009 and $5.2 billion by 2011.
Last May, Canada was spending $10 on combat for every dollar it was spending on aid. Five hundred million dollars later, could the minister tell this House what the new ratio will be?
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=39&Ses=2&DocId=3131388
Hi Marianne, yes I read it also. Good writing.
Looks like the sanctions are back. Once the oil is flowing again, so will the dollars and then the food. Only problem is nothing is happening until Cheney gets his PSAs.
Can’t call it sanctions. How about criminal extortion?
“Can’t call it sanctions. How about criminal extortion?”
Sounds about right…I earlier pegged it as: “This starvation starting in Iraq (yet-again!) is just the obvious ‘impetus intended’ to secure passage of some minor Oil-theft/privatization…”
[But don’t quote Me on this-Topic, since apparently such a viewpoint ‘underhandedly supports this administration re: Iraq’…or so I hear]
Sorry ME ALSO TOO, remember Cool Hand Lukes final words? “What we have here, is a failure to commnicate.” There are so many chacnes of being misunderstood with e-mails and blogs. The result can be anger, abuse and hard feelings.
MeAlsoToo, you wrote that the true enemy isn’t fellow posters, and then go on to bash Kem, who, since you read all his posts, you know doesn’t start fights. jmacneil came swinging at him from out of the blue and I really don’t understand why you chose to jump on Kem as well, with what I consider to be some unreasonable charges against him. You accuse him of inconsistencies, but without laying out the particulars. I am not aware of inconsistencies. He acknowledged he arrived here on CD not very informed, but wanted to become so, and from what I read of his postings, he is doing that. From my knowledge of him he is a kindhearted well meaning man and does not make mean spirited remarks of others. What i have read from the postings of both you and jmacneil is that you do indulge in mean spirited comments about others. Kem is not the distraction here, you are.
Jungleboy, sorry that you miss kathyodat here, but actually she and I are the same person.
vaudree, the Skull and Bones Society is a Yale University secret society. Both Bushes and John Kerry were members. It can’t be verified how many intelligence community leaders came out of the society, but a majority of them have graduated from Yale. The following quote is from Wikipedia: “It is said that the term ’spook’ — once designating a Yale senior or secret society member — is the colloquial term for anyone in espionage”.
Disquieting to say the least.
Google skull and bones society. It’s a society for Yale seniors. A old and very secretive group and members are by invitation only. They will never discuss it.
Is everyone who goes to Yale an actual member of Skull and Bones or a suspected member?
I guess if one appoints or gives a heads up to other Yale members one would suspect something.
GWB seems to value loyalty. Cheney seems to have been loyal to the Bushes so far but I wouldn’t trust him further than I could hurl.
Didn’t the mob also value loyalty?
Maybe not the mob exactly, but …
Back to topic. We kill them. We starve them. We don’t have to say anything to them since we have already conveyed that we see them as expendable - that their lives don’t matter. What happens to young kids who grow up feeling worthless and angry?
KEM — Yes, Skulls and bone litter their paths through history:
RE:braithwa842
I was aware of the situation regarding the economic sanctions; if you follow the link that I gave, it’s perfectly clear that all kinds of dire conditions were brought about by the sanctions; widespread and dire lack of medicine, widespread lack of clean drinking water; etc.