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War and Public Opinion
RADDATZ: Two-third of Americans say it’s not worth fighting.
CHENEY: So?
RADDATZ: So? You don’t care what the American people think?
CHENEY: No. I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls.
Today, New York Times Editorial Page -- which has become one of the most vehement supporters of the war in Afghanistan (and Pakistan) -- echoed Cheney's sentiment when demanding that European leaders escalate their commitments to the war despite overwhelming and growing opposition among their citizenry:
Germany’s chancellor, Angela Merkel, and France’s president, Nicolas Sarkozy, have repeatedly stated that their countries have a stake in the future of Afghanistan and the future of NATO. But both are wary of pushing their voters too far, too fast. (Both have essentially postponed their decisions on further troop contributions until late next month.) Democratically elected leaders cannot ignore public skepticism, but they should not surrender to it when they know better.
Although Cheney's decree was a bit more blunt and not as concerned with meaningless self-justifying caveats ("Democratically elected leaders cannot ignore public skepticism, but . . . "), those statements seem quite similar.
In the U.S., public opinion toward Afghanistan is now decidedly more pro-war than it is in Europe. Whereas polls earlier this year found majorities of Americans against the war, polls now show that -- after Obama's decision to escalate again -- a majority supports his "surge." That's not surprising: when you combine (a) GOP support for any American war (especially one begun by George Bush) with (b) the support of many Democrats for anything and everything Barack Obama endorses, you get a majority. And indeed, this recent change in public opinion towards the war in Afghanistan is due to "a notable jump in support from the president’s Democratic base" once Obama announced his "surge." Obama speaks and many Democrats follow, even into more war (see this weekend's explanation of "Obamania" from Matt Taibbi about how and why that works).
But even with all of the "debate" over the war in Afghanistan, there are still significant anti-democratic features to it. Over the weekend, Time's Joe Klein, undoubtedly reciting what his hawkish government sources told him, trotted out a brand new "justification" for the war in Afghanistan: we have to stay in order to prevent India and Pakistan from going to war with each other. The U.S. government excels at finding brand new Urgent National Security Reasons to continue fighting wars once the original justifications fail or otherwise become inoperative: no more Al Qaeda in Afghanistan? Still, have to stay, otherwise Inida and Pakistan will fight. As part of his stenography services, Klein explained:
[S]ome of the best arguments about why this war is necessary must go unspoken by the President.
So there are deeply compelling reasons to escalate in Afghanistan. But they're secret. They "must go unspoken by the President." The American people have no right to know what the alleged purposes and objectives are of this war. They're supposed to fight in it (a tiny percentage, anyway) and pay for it with massive debt but they can't be told why it's really being fought. And, of course, one of the most significant prongs of this war -- the one fought with Predators and drones in Pakistan -- is something no American government official will even mention, let alone explain and defend. Recent escalations of that part of the war -- as well as ones being actively considered still, such as targeting a large Pakistani city where high civilian causalties are likely -- will remain strictly secret. That, too, "must go unspoken by the President."
It's true that as a Constitutional Republic, the U.S. is not governed by direct democracy. Political leaders are at times expected to exercise judgment independent of public opinion. And once wars are underway, things like troop movements and battle plans are legitimately classified. But whether to fight wars -- and the reasons they're being fought -- are probably the least appropriate decisions to immunize from public opinion.
The Constitution ties the ongoing use of military force to the approval of the American citizenry in multiple ways, not only by prohibiting wars in the absence of a Congressional declaration (though it does impose that much-ignored requirement), but also by requiring Congressional approval every two years merely to have an army. In Federalist 26, Hamilton explained that this Constitutional requirement is vital for ensuring constant public involvement in debates over war and peace. In Federalist 24, he described the need for public involvement in such matters as "a great and real security against military establishments without evident necessity." That's because the Founders were all too aware, as John Jay put it in Federalist 4, of the "variety of other motives, which affect only the mind of the sovereign, [that] often lead him to engage in wars not sanctified by justice or the voice and interests of his people."
Urging leaders to continue to wage wars in the face of great public opposition, as the NYT Editorial Page does today, is deeply misguided and undemocratic. But fighting wars for secret, undisclosed reasons -- as Klein suggests and defends is being done by the Obama administration -- is even worse. But -- as former Navy Commander Jeff Huber and former Marine Scott Ritter, among others, have both recently pointed out -- Dwight Eisenhower's warning has come true: the military has become its own branch of government, uncontrolled by anyone and almost entirely unaccountable. It virtually always gets what it wants. The stated reasons for fighting in Afghanistan make so little sense that Klein is almost certainly right that the real causes are undisclosed. It's extremely difficult to imagine a circumstance that could justify that.
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104 Comments so far
Show All"Dwight Eisenhower's warning has come true: the military has become its own branch of government... uncontrolled... and unaccountable..." It's a little late for us to have this inspiration now, after it's been an accomplished fact for decades. Had we considered that back in November 1963, it might then have been possible to do something about it. Unfortunately, the politicians and the media were, as today, opportunistic cowards.
Tony Vodvarka
"Dwight Eisenhower's warning has come true: the military has become its own branch of government... uncontrolled... and unaccountable..."
There is nothing about this war that merits this generalization. The war is determined by economic/corporate/resource interests, not by the military-industrial complex.
The military-INDUSTRIAL-congressional complex (Eisenhower's original version) runs our government. The President, as well as most of Congress and the Supreme Court, are nothing more than Corporate Tools.
Marine Corps General Smedley Butler warned us long ago that War is a Racket. And that racket, as always, only benefits the ruling class, which is also the corporatist-militarist class.
After their World War Two rebuilding contracts started to run dry, today's American entrepreneurs set their sites on demolishing and rebuilding the United States itself. And, because the things they knew how to make were barracks and tanks, we got suburbia.
And now we are killing the pawns in our resource colonies in order to fuel up these post-war projects.
The I in MIC is an important letter.
Thanks again, Glenn, for stating the obvious truth.
Ike's worst nightmares have come true with a vengeance.
Forget Public Opinion ...
It is the moral stance that must be taken in something as important as war.
Quit the Dems, stop pretending you can be an Independent in these times and register with the Green Party.
We must bring these wars to a close as soon as possible. Nothing good can come of us being there ... Only more years of pain, destruction and death.
That's CIAcumstance! Peace and DESISTANCE, instead!! And THAT'S NO DOUBLESPEAK!!!
The LA Times and UK Telegraph articles are particularly troubling and suggest how Obama's escalation could soon slip out of control. Tariq Ali in his 2008 book, "The Duel; Pakistan and the Flight Path to American Power," makes the point that the only thing that could split Pakistan's 500,000 man army would be major American attacks within Pakistan. The army, according to Ali, has firm control over the nuclear weapons, and has, for 60 years, maintained a strict hierarchical control. The dictators, from Ayub Khan to Mushareff, are always the heads of the army and lower ranking officers never break with that chain of command. This is what makes Pakistani nuclear weapons far less of a danger than US alarmists may believe. It is quite within that pattern that the army leadership might make a secret agreement to allow limited strikes in the mountains, which they could then claim to condemn.
However, a US strike against supposed Al Queda targets in Quetta, a city of 800,000, could well provoke the kind of military split Ali fears. If that happens, it is conceivable that lower ranking generals and colonels might move to seize power, and control of the nuclear weapons.
It is doubtful that American diplomats and generals, accustomed to 60 years of secret deals with the well-managed Pakistani army and its intelligence agency,have
adequately considered this possibility.
while it has been reported - and i think supported by US administration or pentagon remarks (i remember reading it briefly a week or so ago somewhere ) - that the USA is already prepared to "secure" the nuclear weapons ...and that it IS one of the reasons the USA is ratcheting up the involvement IN pakistan (damn the sovereignty) ...
in anticipation of that --
STILL , anything can happen and things can get out of the USA's "Control", regardless of how closely the pentagon and other US operations have planned and "prepared".
it could happen so SWIFTLY if the devastation in the city explodes to uncontrollable proportions that no matter how LARGE or tight the US operations are -- they WILL fail eventually -- and in the end, lose control of the nuclear sites , in ways the USA will severely regret...:
the nuclear sites and weapons becoming accessible to the very people or "enemies" the USA tries to destroy.
and then...what? INDIA comes in? and what will THAT do IN india with its VERY substantial Muslim population should an involvement to "help" the USA "fix" pakistan entail an enlargement of hostilities inside india itself as retaliation by pakistanis or muslims for seeing india's direct hand to help the usa AFTEr the USA has bombed and placed pakistan in chaos, REGARDLESS of who controls the WMD/s? and god knows where hostilities and attacks will erupt ELSEWHERE as response to what will be seen worldwide as MORE US INSPIRED and US CAUSED atrocities and chaos?...until one day - americans themselves traveling abroad are LITERALLY , openly ATTACKED by peole elsewhere? how is obama going to answer for all that? how is obama and the pentagon going to "secure our safety?"
not to mention unknown , undetectable, uncoverable, unpredictable other attacks on US 'interests?"
they are perhaps going to BOMB more cities and countries for "harboring terrorists"?
in any case -- the AUTHOR of ALL of it - is the EMPIRE USA.
Sioux Rose
The explanation for why the reasons for this war cannot be uttered is that they serve the darkest interests of a few. Of course the MIC has become its own beast that requires feeding, and its preferred "food" is the blood of others. And then there are those that willingly act as society's vultures and find virtue in the kill itself. The entire economic machinery of the US is now entirely tied to militarism. The model, "war is good business" is the evil that MUST be wrestled with, but how many honest discussions ensue as per this now sacred cow? This is why I use the phrase, "Mars rules" so often.
On a karmic level, it's as if the leadership is intent on plunging the nation into Dante's Inferno. Not only has nothing been learned from the tragedies of Nagasaki & Hiroshima, nor the more recent blood-letting in Vietnam, these travesties were followed by invading Iraq on false pretenses to eradicate a likely million persons and render many more millions homeless, ill, and miserable. This is a legacy that no sane individual or nation can countenance, no less support. Instead, we see the "new" leadership marching in lockstep with that which was ejected from office, a collective sigh of relief heard 'round the world. But alas, no, it is the same "leadership" wearing a more hip costume to seduce the crowds into the semblance of change.
The big picture, which is to say the "astrological weather report" shows an emerging configuration of note. It might be loosely termed a "cosmic cross," and is already beginning to take shape. Five major planetary factors are involved and while its peak is summer 2010, the elements have begin to align.
Throughout many spiritual traditions it's taught that when an individual relinquishes bad behaviors and elects to shift course, his or her karma is positively improved. It's the story of the Prodigal son, really. America is that prodigal entity, yet due to hubris and the seduction of the profit motive, it has not found the compunction to change course even when numerous celestial factors are about to be pitted against it. No nation is above the law of karma, and as NATIVE SON has pointed out in this forum, America's blank check is about to come due. The rest of the world will look on and recognize, as if a gigantic theatrical production was on view for all to see, exactly what NOT to do, pursue, rationalize, or lie about. Absolute power has corrupted America absolutely; and yet ironically its status is now that of a beggar who must bow before others to acquire the money to grease its own military engines to maintain its macho illusion of omnipotence. Either that, or its agents of greed must mindlessly print money and by doing so, render it worthless. The nation is backed into a corner its leadership doesn't see or acknowledge. Unfortunately good-hearted, clear-headed people do recognize these trends, yet thanks to the obfuscation of media, churches, and sporting events... we are not in enough numbers (or unified) to offset what now appears to be an inevitable crash.
Out of the ashes, the phoenix will eventually rise.
odoco
Sioux Rose: you spoke to both my heart and my mind. Thank you.
Sioux Rose
ODOCO: That was a lovely thing to say. Many thanks. I don't know if you caught the post I left on the thread related to the woman who "chose" prostitution to pay for her father's meds (the title involved the word "Ho"), but my 12/12 post at 11:58 AM was truly inspired. I was shown something recently that helped me to understand what looks to be a bona fide energetic shift. Too many people are fed up, and the metaphysical equivalent of a glass ceiling is being shattered. My explanation of that phenomenon was related in the post mentioned.
TEDDY: Thank you for always kindly acknowledging others' efforts in this forum. I have no idea of your age, but your heart is as pure as that of a child; and many masters have related that "to be ye as children is to enter the kingdom of 'God'."
SEVENTH SON: David Korten calls it the "Great Turning," and so many prophecies speak of this phase as an end to a former way of life. Even pragmatists have to reckon with the facts that the monetary system has become a farce too removed from the worth of those actual commodities that exist for trade. The climate is in stages of ruin with weather equivalents of guaranteed roller coaster rides ahead. And the US acting like the neighborhood junkie, in this case selling the dangerous drug of power in the form of all forms of egregiously obscene weapons systems ENSURES that conflicts will break out all over. This is the stain upon mankind when nations fall to the worship of Mars, the god of death, war, and destruction. One must strain their minds to find evidence that America has not fallen to this dark idol. Its complement Mammon (the love of money) is equally on display and together the pair make for a marriage that gives birth to the worst sins that flesh is heir to. These priorities on display (and fueling foreign and domestic policies) are the antithesis of true leadership... and that is why through repeated acts of murderous folly, America's leaders (and those that support these criminals) have signed the nation's death warrant. I believe the land will rise again with a very different consciousness expressed. The interim between the resurrection and the current stages of the fall are not for the faint-hearted. This forum, for as long as it exists, is to the awakened what AA is to the recovering alcoholic. I'm glad we meet to help one another endure, understand, and do what each of us was born to do.
hi SIOUX ROSE:
i can only explain myself in some limited way by personal anecdote -- fearful that even that might be under the "eyes" of the Fascistic governance now so rampant...that we even see in the Copenhagen events...and we know this is a VERY american "way" trait:
1) a few years ago - i was coming home in a subway train in NYC, after midnight after laboring at refining a nice little program printout for a piano recital i was giving for some residents in an nursing home..something they were asking for for some time because they liked classical music...this was after an already long day of other work, so i was naturally quite well-dressed. being so tired at midnight..with no one in the train car..i was reading a book and put my feet up to stretch on the empty seat nearby..the train stops at a station and a policeman steps in and tells me to put my foot down, which I did. then he asked me to stand up...which i did,...then he asked me to walk out of the train...which I wondered why , and asked...but all he would do is "please step out , sir"...already holding his hand to his PISTOL..
one thing follows another, with the same short commands from him..and before I knew It he was already on his phone , "checking" ...and wouldnt' tell me what it was all about...just always with a tone of threatening authority...before i knew it --- i was in handcuffs - led up the stairs - out to the street where a police car was waiting...i was inside...they drove me to a cold small police station somewhere, where they took all of my belongings...even after I tried to explain what I travelining homg from. showing them my work material, phone numbers. etc..
i was there fingerprinted...then stayed for at least 3 hours....then they took me to a "central booking" in downtown brooklyn , nyc...underground...the very place where they say terrorists were secretly detained and even tortured...
then i was chained along with MANY others like in a chain-gang..and we were , after a few hours in ONE cell -- ALL PACKED LIKE RATS - we could not even sit down or stand properly..they would tell us to go out to ANOTHER cell..with no explanation...all the while hands handcuffed whenever out of the cell...
it was like that all evening and morning next...i literally lay down on the floor with my head RIGHT UNDER a TOILET SIT - because that was the only "space" and others were LITERALLY standing with their feet right next to my stomach - THEIR 'only space' to stand..for HOURS ALL NIGHT...
at morning - we were transfered "upstairs" to another bigger cell - with more packed in with us - no windows open..the sun heating up the room like an oven...outside the cell door was a HUGE FAN - which the prisoners yelled at the police just at the bottom of the stairs to turn ON...but were ignored...NO WATER all these hours. NO FOOD...phones did not work at all...
it was like that NOT KNOWING what your charge was...
at the end of 23 hours - as "per law" -- we were lined up to the court house downstairs...i managed in the meantime to make a call in a working phone to call in to my workplace for monday as they would be wondering why i disappeared - that i was detained and tell my OTHER work place the same..
my turn at the tiny "window" in front of a young woman lawyer (she had a very Irish accent) ...came - and she had my folder...and she opened it and GASPED. i thought I had done a serious crime or killed someone...
she said:
"This is the WORST thing i have ever seen...don't worry...we'll get you out".
my turn to stand before the judge (a young person) - came - and this time a lady friend from my "other" work place had arrived to pick me up..to see what ws going on...
and the judge opened my files...they seem to have "added" to my arrest for feet up on the seat ...a long ag0 infraction when i was in college...in manhattan - and i was putting up fliers - like everyone did, near columbia university - for those music gigs ...everyone did it...and police cited me one night and wrote me a fine. which i forgot to pay since I moved ...but it was something like 30 dollars.
the judge called the police person who "filed" my case - and in a VERY LOUD voice:
screamed at him and the other police:
"DON"T YOU EVER, EVER bring these things to my court again...you are WASTING my time"
and he addressed me directly:
"i am sorry...your case is dismissed and you don't have to pay that fine from years ago".
teddy story, continued
================
but as IMPORTANT as MY case for me was - including the lingering FEAR of such a fascist thing - knowing how the USA DISAPPEARS people for the flimsiest and most craven reasons...
knowing that it HAD happened to ME...was the DIRECT realization of what the USA - AMERICA the GREAT - AMERICA the ":land of the free and justice"
DOES TO BLACK and COLORED people...because in THAT jail - i SAW the jails packed with black people from poor neighbhorhoods especially...and ALL of them - whispered to me in those hours: as I tried to understand their plight that I had TASTED....
"THEY DO THIS TO US all the time, man....they start this with us when we are KIDS...when we play ball, in the parks, they come and cite us for anything and THAT becomes our PERMANENT RECORD and we become criminals from our childhood...this is NORMAL and we live like this, my friend"...
I can tell you - that I CRY every time I remember that.
because THAT is EXACTLY how the USA BEHAVES not just to its own people that are not powerful - but to the rest of the world.
this EMPIRE? it is in its CRUELTY at the VERY DNA of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
- i shoulnd't forget to add - they also "caught" in that night sweep - two europeans - a father and son , i think from poland. and they were so fearful also.
an example also was: a group of black people were all arrested in Brooklyn Coney Island - but they actually were there to buy a second-hand car - for a person who just finished his afternoon and night job of being a building garbage collector ..and had saved his money over a long time to get a car to get to his job better because he was planning to prepare to get married and he had a little boy to feed.
the judge - after one, 2, 3, 4, etc..."cases" basically dismissed most , if not all of them. and gave the police a real lecture in public. he actually stepped down from his seat and desk - went to the corner desk of folders and help them up in his hands, screaming at the Police.
THIS was a SUNDAY MIDNIGHT to all day MONDAY .
on the TUESDAY after that "LABOR DAY" weekend ...
THE new york Daily News EMBLAZONED on its front pages:
"CRIME IS DOWN - POLICE WORK EFFECTIVE"....
THAT is teh FACE of FASCISM in america. the "law and order" in teh USA does not care about the Constitution, you can be sure of that. they only care about getting away with THEIR own crimes if they can , under the aegis of "law and order" while intimidating people to "behave" - according to the dictates of the corporate "law" abidement.
it is NOT about "keeping people safe" . it is about STAMPING DOWN any dissent to the "order" and EXAMPLES are presented in order to remind people "who's in charge".
that -- you can be sure of.
its REAL face is FAR, FAR DARKER than people realize.
that experience taught me - in a direct way , an understanding of the centuries -- of what America, WHITE ORDERED america does to those that are less powerful...or STRIPS power from others to dominate them.
it taught me what the SLAVES must have been through,,,..how they were chained and sold and ordered to labor and then led to their chattels at night and they would whisper in the night among themselves - about the fear...about the punishments and threats...
and how america has SPREAD THIS by using GOVERNMENTS elsewhere to become its PROXY "police" and "law and order" enforcers upon OTHER populations .
and it taught me, once and for all...that it continues it to this very day...principally and continuing with the black people of america ...but modernized as "law and order" and now "homeland security" ...and also as "fight against terrorism"...and of course "spreading democracy and protecting freedom".
and it is NOT a very good picture. because people are suffering needlessly for the sake of a few people's ideas about what "order" should be. ...which is that THEY are the Lords and Masters
to the detriment of human rights and justice and TRUE freedom of nations and cultures without COERCION by Wanna be Rulers such as these that sit in the boardrooms and institutions of the great "america" and its corporatocratic Fascist "masters of the universe".
it is so sad , so fearsome and so WRONG. and so inhumane and cruel.
we on earth and the earth and its creatures do not deserve to be subjected to such treatment by such UNWORTHY individuals that hold the reigns of power.
if anything - it is THEY that don't deserve the time of day from anyone.
BUT they hold POWER. but because of that - they ought to know BETTER...because they are human beings too that will someday become weakened and ill and defenseless and need others to care for them ....
and YET they do what they do and decide what they decide with so little concern for the plight of others that are affected by their cruelties and lack of conscience.
Sioux Rose
TEDDY: What an ordeal! I think lots of us in this forum half-expect the shoe to drop where we will be picked up for something we said, published, THOUGHT or did. NO longer does the presumption of innocence hold, neither Habeas Corpus. Our nation, following Rumsfeld's prophetic command, has crossed over into the dark side. We now live in the belly of the beast and the precious freedoms we took to be ours, those we recited with the pledge as grade school children mean little, they are ornaments of a dying culture, its tree of life fading.
Do I apologize to you on behalf of the nation's half-cocked authority figures? Those of the likes that pushed a baton up one dark skinned inmate's anus? If the law of karma was taught and fully understood, it would be much harder for people who own a little bit of authority to use it sadistically against others. Too bad they are instead convinced that if their skin is the right hue and if they go to the expected congregation, their sins are wiped clean thanks to Jesus dying on the cross for them.
In any case, I am trying to finish galleys for a book... it's already late. I need to get back to that project. I am very glad that for your horror, (you could write about it as "The 24 hour Inferno, a trip to hell and back"), that you are once again "free." You already had empathy for others' suffering, but this gave you firsthand knowledge of some of the terror and inhumanity involved.
For me Sioux Rose - the greater revelation was the CONFIRMATION of what I long suspected was so true: that in the USA - the most oppressed people remain the Blacks, coloreds Native indians.
and that while it is true that AMONG the black population there is great crime - by blacks upon blacks...it is STILL a legacy of having been CRIMINALIZED for "being black" as a LEGACY of continuing oppression by a "white ordered" - anglo-saxon, "inherited from the older empire britain" - and everything that comes with it manifested in "the white man's burden" view of the world order - and that while there are many things that blacks are responsible for among themselves as a community...
if - TODAY - as things transpire - even white people or generally more "successful" communities NO LONGER FEEL SECURE economically nor that their interests are truly at the heart of the "white order" --
HOW MUCH MORE for the blacks who have LIVED THIS for generations - unabated ? how much MORE for them?
I always wondered all these many years -- how could a country do this to people because of their skin color and THEN try to DENY to itself that it CONTINUES to do it in other subtle ways under the facade of "law and order" AFTER ENSURING that the black people are so oppressed that they TURN to criminality between themselves for no other reason that the "established order" NEVER accepts them as equals? unless stated by Law which is however CLEVERLY undermined in OTHER ways? such as ensuring that most blacks, especially , children, are CRIMINALIZED since childhood to be MARKED forever as "inferior" and THEREFORE LOSE their own self-respect and become the very caricatures that america paints of them :
"antisocial"? when all of that was brought upon them SIMPLY because of where their foreparents came from and that they were "meant" to be inferior and everyone ELSE accepts or tolerates it?
I always asked myself these questions -- and I found out exactly how it feels, or close to it...
those blacks I was pushed into the cell those hours - who knows? maybe some had theft convictions before, muggings, whatever other crimes---but HOW as a GENERAL COMMUNITY did they come to be like that UNLESS a society has MADE them to become like that ?
and when I heard their different stories - whispering all the time....i felt that I could have been one of them...i could have been a black child with no father - because he never had the opportunities to be "equal" as whites - and ran away . and his mother couldn't feed him properly ...or bring him up properly with her OWN problems of being a "woman" or a person and always bitter and angry ...and then I could have been a black child mostly having to learn my ways from the "streets"....
and then start on a paht of ":criminality" -- when the BIGGEST CRIMINALS are sitting in congress, in the white house, in the pentagon, in wall street,
with all their pronouncements about the "glorious responsible american way of life".
bad and fearful as my experience was -- imagine that - to the blacks that told me :
"they do this to us, man...all the time...even when we're just walking...it's the way they remind us our place"...
i always, all these years wondered in the streets - why - when I LOOK at the faces of people - all colors....of all of them - it is the blacks that had most of that "sadness" in their eyes...a certain "defeated" look in their eyes., where ., unless you are in THEIR "neighborhood" and they feel a certain strength of their commonality - albeit with its challenges and "tough" realities -
they often AVERT their eyes from other strangers, especially teh children or teenagers, as if they are ASHAMED of THEMSELVES when they AROUND people of other color...even when i read about crimes or brutalities people of THEIR color commit, especially against themselves...i never forget how a SOCIETY TURNED THEIR COMMUNITIES that way..to DEBASE themselves ....even as so many of them FOUGHT against it, such as Dr Martin Luther King, Jr.
and YET TODAY - we see a BLACK MAN acting like HE is a neighborhood BULLY in the black community.
ONLY he is doing it for his own WHITE masters. and doing it on a GLOBAL SCALE .
and believe me - sioux rose - it HURTS so much to see that in the eyes of people. i often want to ask black people on the street that exact thing...and ask them : "WHY do you look like you don't deserve to act with nobility as much as I or anyone else? why do you have to walk or have in your eyes the look as if you have to APOLOGIZE for BEING?"
but of course i never have the courage.
they do not and never deserved to be REDUCED to that kind of reality for being WHO they are and who their foreparents were -- OPPRESSED and ENSLAVED by the "white ordered" american way of "life".
many of them have become "tough" and even the way their families bring up the kids seems to be on the "tough" side - but CLEARLY this is a result of the REALIZATION that they have to be CALLOUSED or "tough" to EVEN SURVIVE the onslaughts by white ordered society that has NEVEr abated , imposed on them.
of this, i am very sure.
it really hurts - because they are fellow human beings, and it's like I Hurt them myself.
and it's not right.
as for "apologize" to me for those things...there is no need Sioux Rose. but Thank you. you and I are in ways, merely "nobodies" to these power mad people, which INCLUDES the "security" agencies and their enablers who THINK they are doing things purely out of "patriotism" and may BELIEVE it themselves...but are mostly carrying out what amounts to TYRANNY
in a country that proclaims itself "law abiding" and "constitutional" and the seat of "justice and democracy and liberty".
I know that this is something that would never have happened in the philippines, NOT EVEN under our martial law under marcos unless you clearly were a PROMINENT enough threat to him...
but ORDINARY people? no - that was not the case. the USA is BRUTAL in that sense because it does it, under disguise of "law and order" on a DAILY , NORMAL BASIS, because it truly goes for the DEFENSELESS. and you can see this reflected in the way it WARS upon countries that it is SURE can not fight back..such as Iraq, or afghanistan.
and even the way it "took on" the USSR was a craven, mendacious COWARDLY manner - it USED afghanis to do its deed ...but didn't have the BALLS to sends 500,000 American soldiers themselves to fight the Soviets IN afghanistan or do "regime change" IN moscow itself - BECAUSE moscow HAD thousands of nuclear weapons.
does that NOT say something about the USA "courage" and "noble deeds"?
it behaves the same way, on behalf of its corporatocracy , as "law and order and security" ....
TOWARDS its own citizens.
that's cruel, uncivilized, barbaric and hypocritical.
consider alone that a well-known, well-awarded Science Fiction writer - with a doctorate - from CANADA - who helped his friend move to Kansas - was BEATEN and incarcerated and denied representation and then DROPPED unceremoniously in the COLD out there by the border between canada and USA
ON HIS WAY HOME to canada.
tat was done by "HOMELAND SECURITY" border guards.
acting EXACTLY like NAZIS.
and they didn't even NEED any excuse - NOR any acknowledgement that he was a citizen of a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY that the USA should NOT dare to touch!!!
what does that tell americans about what the USA has become?
as that old 102- year old italian gentleman from Rome told me:
"I KNOW about empires, about history, i KNOW about the roman empire and fascism . I KNOW this because i AM roman. and have seen BOTH world wars...THE USA is NOW the new Roman Empire and has become a Fascist country like what I saw under Mussolini".
Sioux Rose
TEDDY: There is not much to add to your post other than perhaps suggesting you pick up a video camera and begin your own series: "Voices of Outsiders," and show via film how persons are marginalized, roughed up, abandoned, treated like shit. It is true that a disproportionate amount of this "2nd citizen" treatment is directed at Black Americans; however, one can trace prejudice aimed at other sects, particularly the Indigenous, and we women have endured our share (and still do). The notion of a just society that imparts equal access and representation to each member is yet a noble fiction. It is a wonderful north star that all compasses should be set to; but as yet, seldom found. I suppose the Scandinavian nations come closest? But there are others in this forum who are better versed on the politics of other lands than myself.
It was very brave of you to expose your own vulnerability in this forum. Just as Michael Moore made a film career of interviewing average persons impacted by bad public policy, you could do something with the seedy side of not just racism, but America's moves towards fascism-lite, coming to a street corner soon near you, too!
Hi Teddy, interesting story. When I was young, I was put in a private Catholic school, which today I equate with being in prison. Not only were students hit and sometimes beaten by monks and lay teachers, many of us had to constantly fight during recess and after school. Since I wasn't the biggest kid in the school yard, and mostly passive, I got picked on a lot. Finally, we moved to another state, and my father forced me to stay in the boy scouts, where I eventually found it impossible to conform and--you guessed it--became a target of ridicule and bullying once again. At some point I had it, and began to train myself in martial arts (Jukado, specifically). I found a partner, Jimmy, during camp outs--himself an 'outcast'--and we trained together. At some point I became quite competent, and was no longer bullied. After one last fight in high school when I laid out a much bigger opponent without any blow in return, I never had to fight again (which I was very thankful for). In later years, I've continued training for the excellent workout it provided.
Your post made me think about how Karate was employed by peasants in Japan to defend themselves against the Samurai, and perhaps even against the imperial soldiers in China. If I was in your situation, I might have been tempted to use it, after I had asked the policeman in a strong tone: "Am I under arrest officer?" If he was alone, as with you, and did not reply or was evasive. I'd ask again: "Why are you asking me to step out, Am I under arrest? I'd rather you question me here, Sir." If he then made an aggressive move, I probably would have defended myself, or at least been very tempted to do so.
Today, most of us are so cowered by authority we never generally go along with it without question, even when we know it is not 'just.' It may not be long before incidents such as yours end up with innocent people in THIS country being detained and beaten for no apparent reason, or as a case of mistaken identity.
Currently, I make it a point to try not to be out too late, or put myself in a place or position where I might be vulnerable. For many of us, though, this is impossible due to work or other reasons. It might not be a bad idea to invest in and learn how to use a 'kubaton,' which can double as a key chain.
It is also my belief that young children in private schools should be trained to defend themselves against would-be 'strangers' who would abduct and harm them. I am teaching my little girl, and we're both having a lot of fun with it.
Anyway, much thanks for sharing your story.
Sioux,
That shift of which you speak is exactly "the Turning" spoken of by Trappist monk Thomas Merton, as cited in James Douglass' book, "JFK and the Unspeakable". (I am currently reading that book and know you have read it, as well, which is why I bring it up). It is that very "Turning" that JFK took, as he began to make the shift away from being a Cold Warrior to a President truly wanting peace in the world, that marked him for assassination. The MIC does not stand for such paradigm shifts.
SIOUX ROSE...AMAZING EXPLANATION!
2010...i wonder what it will bring indeed...
as of NOW..the USA has begun involving itself in YEMEN - next door to saudi arabia..supposedly "training" yemenis to fight "insurgents" - as in "training afghanis to fight insurgents"...as in "training iraqis to fight insurgents" as in training pakistanis to "fight insurgents" (as of today rebuffed by pakistan)
of course there's the launching for more war in Colombia towards south america....
and of course, as expected by end of this year - a "WESTERN REPORT" said that IRAN had plans as late as 2007 to build nuclear weapons...as a prelude to invasion and bombing....shades of IRAQ indeed...accusations (while conveniently ignoring that iran IS a signatory to Nuclear treaties AND HAS the right to develop nuclear technology) ..followed by sanctions, followed by "diplomacy" designed to be Unacceptable to iran...followed by of course sabre rattling, followed by "WESTERN REPORTS SAY"....followed by , u know the rest...
and as of today Congress - that leadership you pointed out - with agreement , finally, by the white house - issued a "report" BLAMING CHINA for the world economic blowup - it's NOT WALL STREET's fault...no , it's NOT the USA's profligacy and borrowing..no. it's NOT the USA's Imperial costs, no...
it's CHINA's Fault. that's the NOW OFFICIAL USA POSITION.
meaning?
it is the beginning of a virtual WAR with China. which has subtly warned months ago:
"we sincerely hope the USA will not cause or create Trouble IN OUR WESTERN provinces...that will not be good for our relationship..."...
Pakistan happens to be RIGHT NEXT DOOR to china's west..and IS an ally of china with plenty of chinese investments...
and the USA is spreading the war (recently threatening to bomb pakistan's SECOND LARGEST CITY - quetta - unless pakistan "cracks down on taliban") ....
guess who will win? it AIN'T THE USA.
The idea that the military is 'running' our government is idiotic and representative of the charade the 'progressive left' runs as cover for the oligarchy (made up of the British crown, Jewish bankers, and the US financial elite) that does run the government.
What is remarkable is that the US for the last 30 years at least has been engaging in undeclared war after undeclared war, in direct violation of the constitution, in countries thousands of miles away that most of us could not have previously located on a map, for reasons that are opaque, and and the same time maintaining the charade that in the US 'democracy' the people and the political process decide governmental policy.
Your reference to the "British Crown" and "Jewish bankers" is straight out of the Lyndon Larouche playbook.
[Your reference to the "British Crown" and "Jewish bankers" is straight out of the Lyndon Larouche playbook.]
Hey, maybe he's right. I don't really know what's going on, but I do know that the 'democratic process' in the US is a charade. Somebody, and it ain't Obama, is running things, and we should start trying to figure out who it is, and not reading/writing endless laments about Obama and the Democrats.
You can trace a coalition between the British elites and Jewish bankers back to the 1800's, and amazingly enough, they were conspiring then to betray British industry to the benefit of financial class. The struggle between the financiers and the people in the US today has been going on for 150 years, even thought we've just become aware of it.
And, clearly after WW I the British were reeling, and the US elite, the Rockefellers, Morgans, et.al., came to their rescue. The strangle hold that they put on the US economy, in the form of the Federal Reserve, is no mystery.
So, IMO, the level of analysis needs to be raised from crying about Obama, to finding out what is really going on.
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
A little bit of all of the above is true. But to deny that the military-industrial complex with all its sundry private weapons R&D, big ticket weapons manufacturers, privatized intelligence firms, privatized combined oil & military logistics supply contractors, mercenary armies, bodyguards, private plausible deniability assassination teams, kidnapping firms, etc. hasn't taken on a multi-hundred-billion dollar war profiteering agenda of its own since the end of WWII is, frankly, inexcusable at this point in history.
[But to deny that the military-industrial complex -has a- war profiteering agenda of its own since the end of WWII is, frankly, inexcusable at this point in history.]
Who would deny the obvious? Do we have to be told 1000 times? There is no mystery there.
There is a mystery though. That's the point, we DON'T KNOW what's going on. Better to admit it and to start trying to figure it out, than the endless laments about the MIC. These laments are a charade, a diversion, non-productive, and at this point not even interesting.
Lyndon Larouche also talked about the financial elite and the JFK cover-up and the coming US Bankruptcy... this was all in his playbook for decades. That is why Bush considered him our enemy.
Lyndon Larouche is an interesting phenomenon in that his shifting conspiracy theories are the place where extremes of Left and Right often meet. This is because there is a hunger on both extremes to discover dark powers moving behind and manipulating elected leaders. The only voice that can be trusted is that of the cult or party leader. For communists the state is simply "the executive committee of the ruling class" and for rightists the only difference is that the ruling class is not the actual wealthy class but a mysterious secret international power, which inevitably leads them toward anti-Semitism. Hence, the obligatory references to "Jewish bankers." In the same way, "9-11 truthers," whether among Islamists of the Al Queda variety or anti-Bush fanatics on the American Left, inevitably move toward a 9-11 theory in which Mossad is responsible.
All of these conspiracy theories, whether they come from the Left or Right, are intensely anti-democratic and potentially violent, and should be resisted by any person committed to democracy. Opposition to policies such as Obama's escalation of the Afghan war lack credibility unless founded on analysis of fact rather than wild assertions and accusations.
",,,conspiracy theories, whether they come from the Left or Right, are intensely anti-democratic and potentially violent, and should be resisted by any person committed to democracy... Opposition to policies... lack credibility unless founded on analysis of fact..."
"Conspiracy theory" is a propagandistic label applied to that which the PTB do not wish to be taken seriously. 'Theory' IS the analysis of fact when trying to make sense out it. Most people, believe it or not, can distinguish between the relative merits of the idea that space aliens are involved in earthly affairs and whether there are legitimate unanswered questions regarding any number of events, from JFK to 9/11.
There ARE powerful 'leaders' and wealthy 'financiers' who meet and make plans. Maybe some of them are Jewish (who cares?).
There is nothing 'undemocratic' about pondering and discussing issues one feels are important. What IS undemocratic is belittling, marginalizing, labeling, and discounting people who are searching for the truth even if they wander off the track a bit.
You are forever quick to point out how "idiotic" every last explanation or analysis of ANYTHING is that doesn't precisely concur with your own, that it's really the oligarchy of British Crown, Jewish bankers and US financial elites who run and control everything.
How indeed could the anemic military have anything much to do with it? Pentagon spending only accounts for more than the rest of entire world combined, so what a waste of time it is for the progressive left to carry on senselessly about the power of the military over the US economy! You apparently think the only reason the US engages in one undeclared, illegal war after another (for over 40 years, not 30) is to enhance the power of the tripartite cabal you're fixated on, as if they have nothing to do with the military establishment.
The failure to "Not Allanate" on the power of this cabal, and mainly the ubiquitous Zionist conspiracy you truly obsess with everlastingly, while also dismissing the power of militarism over the US economy, makes one an "idiot" in your bizarroworld. Do you really believe the military has no particular stake in all the wars you correctly decry as violations of the Constitution? It's all Jewish bankers, the mysterious financial flim-flam artists and the dreaded British Crown? If so, for a better definition of idiocy I suggest you take a closer look into the nearest mirror.
Americans' attitude toward their President: "trust and don't bother to verify."
As Greenwald says, the militant minority of Republicans and their "independent" fellow-travellers (maybe accounting for 40% of "public opinion") can be counted on to support any bellicose foreign policy proposed by any President. Of the remaining 60%, if only a third of them adopt the "trusting" perspective, you've created a coalition of macho-people and trusters for a 60% majority in "public opinion". And there's the big hurdle for those of us who try to get the public to "verify" claims that, for example, Afghanistan can be "stabilized" by building the Afghan Army, a central claim of the military surge strategy. Even a modicum of information about that Army and that country will tell us that the President's strategy won't work. But how can we deal with a "public" so much of whose attention is too focussed on football playoff games and celebrity scandals to take the time or have the interest in verifying the factual validity of those "justifications" for war? Better to elect someone you can "trust" because he/she has an engaging smile and seemingly friendly manner, and let him/her make those decisions. This is democracy as it has come to be in a world that degrades any informed civic culture, and it's the very big problem for us as educators in these times.
you can at least encourage everyone to visit this website and see the film in it's entirety (6 segments)
http://rethinkafghanistan.com/
lucky: thanks for the link; this is going to the top of my (very short) "wanted for Christmas" list and my new year's resolution will be to share it widely.
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
The "unspoken" presidential defense of the Central Asian wars that Klein alludes to is OIL and NATURAL GAS reserves and planned pipelines, not preventing Pakistan and India from going to war--a false premise that is tragi-comically laugh/weepable. There are plenty of other tactics in the U.S. defense and diplomatic arsenal to keep India and Pakistan from going to war besides a quagmire in Afghanistan.
The nuclear weapons and A.L. Khan in Pakistan are a legitimate threat to regional, U.S. and EU national security but they could be secured in one large quick, in & out military operation of 4 to 6 weeks duration--not 8-plus open-ended years of failed occupation. Absent the Pakistani nukes there are only the two remaining cash crops of fossil fuels and opium to interest our capitalists in keeping us there.
The New York Times only cares about the fossil fuel fields and pipelines and its endless Israeli command agenda of what was formerly U.S. foreign policy. Americans should not care enough about either to wage an open-ended unaffordable war in Afghanistan. Why? Because (1) we need to wean ourselves away from our gluttonous dependence on imported fossil fuel for economic, environmental and foreign policy reasons, and (2) Israel is nothing but an annual $3 Billion dollar (plus) parasite on the troubled U.S economy from whom we receive NOTHING worth having in return.
The insane majority of Americans support the illegal wars and the majority of sane world citizens are increasingly bitter towards the U.S. The world's nations need to indorse a Boycott, Sanction and Divestment of the U.S. and it's Master, Israel...the two great terrorist states of the twenty first century!
odoco
Agreed on boycott: I believe this is the only threat - one of economic sanctions against the ruling elite - that has a chance of changing the course of this country. Having said that, I can well imagine, in another vein, how the military / industrial / media / congressional complex would use such a tactic to justify outright war on those nations implementing the boycott. I can also see those in power in this country using even harsher measures against domestic dissenters to levy even greater denial of civil rights here at home. . . It would be a very, very dangerous proposition.
The real purpose of these endless wars as discovered by Ronald McRaygun in Granada is not to make anyone 'safer' but to deplete our treasury so that the Democrats cannot spend any of it on humanity. Iblis Rules America!
How can any sane person unequivocally state "I support the killing of people"?
To answer your question: sane people do not support the killing of people; unfortunately, the U.S.A. is not governed by sane people only insane people and any sane people like Kucinich are held hostage to the insane majority. We are living in an insane asylum run by the inmates!
Paul, I understand your meaning, but please permit me to insert a brief clarification. To imply that the governors of the US are collectively 'insane' unwittingly provides a veil of legitimacy to their abhorrent actions, which are always intentional and contemplated with lucidity, guile, and arrogance. Contemporaneously, such a suggestion also casts a pall over those among us who are truly mentally disabled--paranoid schizophrenics, for example--by creating the inference that they support willful and malicious behavior, such as the mass annihilation of our fellow humans for power and profit. Insanity would actually render them incapable of such understanding or willful unlawfulness.
Insanity is a legal term and not a medical one; there is no medical diagnosis of insanity. A legal finding of insanity, however, provides an absolute defense of criminal behavior. An affirmative defense or finding of insanity means that, due to mental disease or defect, at the time of an event (crime), 1) one is incapable of understanding the nature and quality of the act/event (crime) and, 2) is incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong. Clearly, in the case of our political/plutocratic perpetrators of violence, this is not the case. They are lucid and act with clear intent and often, malice. Thus, I believe a determination of psychopathy--a pervasive personality disorder--rather than insanity, is a more apt explanation of those people--most politicians and the masters of industry they serve--who support the killing of other people. Psychopaths understand completely the nature and quality of the acts they commit (or have committed on their behalf) and they are quite capable of distinguishing between right and wrong. They are simply ruthless people who choose to do wrong to satisfy their always selfish motives and, because they possess no conscience, could not care less who or what gets gets sacrificed in the process. They are truly the people of the lie.
For more about these manipulative and often charming social predators who tend to gravitate to positions of political, military, religious, and corporate power, I highly recommend the excellent book by Dr. Robert D. Hare, a preeminent authority on psychopathology, titled Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths among Us.
Perspicacious comment,Giovanna. I did not mean to be perjorative to insane people, but used insane in the context of nihilistic, psychopaths. I agree that some of the insane have a conscience and insane is probably too exculpatory for the fascist,psycho's that in particular, administer our foreign policy. I believe I read one of Dr. Hares books a while back. Thanks, Paul
Forgive me. I should have used the word "rational".
"Democratically elected leaders cannot ignore public skepticism, but they should not surrender to it when they know better."
So... if the 'public' expresses it's skepticism by, say, voting for an anti-war President, our other Democratically elected leaders shouldn't 'surrender' because they know better? Should they invalidate the vote on the basis of 'knowing' that 'war' is 'better'?
Stupid skeptical public...
Klein is almost certainly right that the real causes are undisclosed.
Money, in all its various forms, like drugs, oil, weaponry, etc. is one overwhelming reason. However, like George Wanker Bush, let's not forget FUBARack H. Obama's penis. He, like The Wanker, is a coward playing with other people's lives. He may not show up some place wearing a flight suit or an aviator's leather jacket with the presidential seal on it, but in his addled and power hungry mind, he is Shaft, kicking ass and showing the world who is boss. Elsewhere, in Chris Hedges article, Mike Gravel notes that Obama is into power. No kidding!
Is this 'escalation' just a shot in the arm for our war-making industry?
Top Ten Offense Contractors:
Lockheed Martin Corporation (LMT)
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Boeing Co. (BA)
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Northrop Grumman Corporation (NOC)
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BAE SYSTEMS (BA.L)
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Raytheon Co. (RTN)
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General Dynamics Corp. (GD)
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General Electric Co. (GE)
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Honeywell International Inc. (HON)
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Halliburton Company (HAL)
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United Technologies Corp. (UTX)
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Health Net Inc. (HNT)
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L-3 Communications Holdings
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Here comes the real reason for the escalation. War with Iran..
The us has bases all around Iran and Israel has been ready for some time.
This morning the bone was thrown that Iran was still getting ready to build what Israel has, the bomb. In fact they say that they are building the trigger..
Why do ya think the smart money has been buying gold..
This might be a more interesting Christmas season than you thought.
I suppose if I had any 'smart money' I should buy gold...
Cannot disclose the reasons for war? Wouldn't have anything to do with the MIC/ Trans-Afghanistan oil/gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea that would bypass Iran and Russia would it? Of course not! The U.S. does not invade other developing countries to take control of its resources -- yeah, right!
As one who has worked as a government contractor with various government agencies and departments as have some of my friends and coworkers, I can tell you straight that public opinion is entirely irrelevant. Believe it or not, even the government agencies and departments not related to the military actually cooperate silently with the war machines. There have been several times when even the Pentagon very reluctantly accepted increased budgets from the Bush administration and this one and plenty who work there know that other departments such as HHS, Interior, Labor, and others have had to sacrificially adjust their budgets just to meet the requests and demands of their bossy warmongers in the White House and Congress year after year. The result is cuts to health care especially Medicare; leaving Native Americans in deeper poverty, lack of education, and corruption in the tribal leaders; and no real improvement in labor. The worst part is injecting rightwing based Christianity into HHS and BIA to force them into depending on authoritarianism. I don't see any indication of this administration changing it. From there, it has been too easy for even non-DoD related agencies and depts to be chained to the war machine and it will take a lot of work from a lot of people to reverse it.