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Socialized Medicine? Not Quite
5 Myths About Health Care Around the World
As Americans search for the cure to what ails our health-care system, we've overlooked an invaluable source of ideas and solutions: the rest of the world. All the other industrialized democracies have faced problems like ours, yet they've found ways to cover everybody -- and still spend far less than we do.
I've traveled the world from Oslo to Osaka to see how other developed democracies provide health care. Instead of dismissing these models as "socialist," we could adapt their solutions to fix our problems. To do that, we first have to dispel a few myths about health care abroad:
1. It's all socialized medicine out there.
Not so. Some countries, such as Britain, New Zealand and Cuba, do provide health care in government hospitals, with the government paying the bills. Others -- for instance, Canada and Taiwan -- rely on private-sector providers, paid for by government-run insurance. But many wealthy countries -- including Germany, the Netherlands, Japan and Switzerland -- provide universal coverage using private doctors, private hospitals and private insurance plans.
In some ways, health care is less "socialized" overseas than in the United States. Almost all Americans sign up for government insurance (Medicare) at age 65. In Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands, seniors stick with private insurance plans for life. Meanwhile, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is one of the planet's purest examples of government-run health care.
2. Overseas, care is rationed through limited choices or long lines.
Generally, no. Germans can sign up for any of the nation's 200 private health insurance plans -- a broader choice than any American has. If a German doesn't like her insurance company, she can switch to another, with no increase in premium. The Swiss, too, can choose any insurance plan in the country.
In France and Japan, you don't get a choice of insurance provider; you have to use the one designated for your company or your industry. But patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay.
Canadians have their choice of providers. In Austria and Germany, if a doctor diagnoses a person as "stressed," medical insurance pays for weekends at a health spa.
As for those notorious waiting lists, some countries are indeed plagued by them. Canada makes patients wait weeks or months for nonemergency care, as a way to keep costs down. But studies by the Commonwealth Fund and others report that many nations -- Germany, Britain, Austria -- outperform the United States on measures such as waiting times for appointments and for elective surgeries.
In Japan, waiting times are so short that most patients don't bother to make an appointment. One Thursday morning in Tokyo, I called the prestigious orthopedic clinic at Keio University Hospital to schedule a consultation about my aching shoulder. "Why don't you just drop by?" the receptionist said. That same afternoon, I was in the surgeon's office. Dr. Nakamichi recommended an operation. "When could we do it?" I asked. The doctor checked his computer and said, "Tomorrow would be pretty difficult. Perhaps some day next week?"
3. Foreign health-care systems are inefficient, bloated bureaucracies.
Much less so than here. It may seem to Americans that U.S.-style free enterprise -- private-sector, for-profit health insurance -- is naturally the most cost-effective way to pay for health care. But in fact, all the other payment systems are more efficient than ours.
U.S. health insurance companies have the highest administrative costs in the world; they spend roughly 20 cents of every dollar for nonmedical costs, such as paperwork, reviewing claims and marketing. France's health insurance industry, in contrast, covers everybody and spends about 4 percent on administration. Canada's universal insurance system, run by government bureaucrats, spends 6 percent on administration. In Taiwan, a leaner version of the Canadian model has administrative costs of 1.5 percent; one year, this figure ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition parties savaged the government for wasting money.
The world champion at controlling medical costs is Japan, even though its aging population is a profligate consumer of medical care. On average, the Japanese go to the doctor 15 times a year, three times the U.S. rate. They have twice as many MRI scans and X-rays. Quality is high; life expectancy and recovery rates for major diseases are better than in the United States. And yet Japan spends about $3,400 per person annually on health care; the United States spends more than $7,000.
4. Cost controls stifle innovation.
False. The United States is home to groundbreaking medical research, but so are other countries with much lower cost structures. Any American who's had a hip or knee replacement is standing on French innovation. Deep-brain stimulation to treat depression is a Canadian breakthrough. Many of the wonder drugs promoted endlessly on American television, including Viagra, come from British, Swiss or Japanese labs.
Overseas, strict cost controls actually drive innovation. In the United States, an MRI scan of the neck region costs about $1,500. In Japan, the identical scan costs $98. Under the pressure of cost controls, Japanese researchers found ways to perform the same diagnostic technique for one-fifteenth the American price. (And Japanese labs still make a profit.)
5. Health insurance has to be cruel.
Not really. American health insurance companies routinely reject applicants with a "preexisting condition" -- precisely the people most likely to need the insurers' service. They employ armies of adjusters to deny claims. If a customer is hit by a truck and faces big medical bills, the insurer's "rescission department" digs through the records looking for grounds to cancel the policy, often while the victim is still in the hospital. The companies say they have to do this stuff to survive in a tough business.
Foreign health insurance companies, in contrast, must accept all applicants, and they can't cancel as long as you pay your premiums. The plans are required to pay any claim submitted by a doctor or hospital (or health spa), usually within tight time limits. The big Swiss insurer Groupe Mutuel promises to pay all claims within five days. "Our customers love it," the group's chief executive told me. The corollary is that everyone is mandated to buy insurance, to give the plans an adequate pool of rate-payers.
The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.
In many ways, foreign health-care models are not really "foreign" to America, because our crazy-quilt health-care system uses elements of all of them. For Native Americans or veterans, we're Britain: The government provides health care, funding it through general taxes, and patients get no bills. For people who get insurance through their jobs, we're Germany: Premiums are split between workers and employers, and private insurance plans pay private doctors and hospitals. For people over 65, we're Canada: Everyone pays premiums for an insurance plan run by the government, and the public plan pays private doctors and hospitals according to a set fee schedule. And for the tens of millions without insurance coverage, we're Burundi or Burma: In the world's poor nations, sick people pay out of pocket for medical care; those who can't pay stay sick or die.
This fragmentation is another reason that we spend more than anybody else and still leave millions without coverage. All the other developed countries have settled on one model for health-care delivery and finance; we've blended them all into a costly, confusing bureaucratic mess.
Which, in turn, punctures the most persistent myth of all: that America has "the finest health care" in the world. We don't. In terms of results, almost all advanced countries have better national health statistics than the United States does. In terms of finance, we force 700,000 Americans into bankruptcy each year because of medical bills. In France, the number of medical bankruptcies is zero. Britain: zero. Japan: zero. Germany: zero.
Given our remarkable medical assets -- the best-educated doctors and nurses, the most advanced hospitals, world-class research -- the United States could be, and should be, the best in the world. To get there, though, we have to be willing to learn some lessons about health-care administration from the other industrialized democracies.
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70 Comments so far
Show AllThis piece needs to be re-sent and posted to one's social networking page en mass immediately.
how much will national health care cost us????
NOTHING.......ZERO......ZIP
in fact it will save us
RIGHT NOW
OUR GOVERNMENT spends $3300.00 dollars per person per year on health care.........then the rest of us pay thousands more
in ENGLAND where they have national health care....their GOVERNMENT spends $2900.00 per person on healthcare
and THEY have universal coverage
so we ALREADY pay for UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE..... we just are not receiving it.....
why not???
Why not? Because insurance and pharmaceutical executives are each being paid millions and elected officials campaign funds are recieving billions to vote against universal healtcare.
Not to mention the billions of dollars spent on corporate perks...most of the insurance and pharma people don't even know the TSA exists because they don't fly commercial...the corporate jets take them everywhere.
Absolutely great article. I agree, everyone should spend the few minutes it takes to read this. Thanks T.R.Reid
When I became ill in New Zealand I went to one of the quick-med corner clinics where I was treated by a DOCTOR for $19(US) cash.
How much would that have cost in the US ?
Needless to say Aetna denied my claim for the $19 doctor bill when I returned to the US.
AP reports that US citizens go to Costa Rica and other countries for medical/dental care. It is cheaper and also higher quality than available to many in the U$A.
http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=citizen-times&sParam=36005130.story
rosemarie jackowski August 23rd, 2009 2:17 pm.....Indeed, I went to Cebu, Philippines last year for some dental work. The quality was suberb and the price about one sixth of what it would cost here. AND, it would have taken many months. In Dr. Yaps office in Cebu, you are one of maybe two or three patients in the day. And the native Filipinos are wonderful folks...warm and sincere.
You have to thow that information at those opposed to other systems of delivering care any chance you get.
Read virtually every board where they people support the US system and they use the "Other peoples Citizens use our health care system so that means THEIRS does not work" arguement over and over again.
The FACT is more Americans go OUT of the USA to get health care then there are people coming IN to the USA to get health care.
Indeed even Insurance companies in the US are sending patients to places like India.
Indeed it estimated 6 MILLION Americans will go abroad for care next year alone.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/27/india.medical.travel/index.html
BTW I can not find reliable statistics on the total number of Foreigners who travel to the US to get health Care.
I SUSPECT the total number is less then 6 million. This form the entire worlds population of 6 odd some billion.
The number of "Canadians flooding" the US system is in the thousands, and much of this is for Cosmetic surgery.
Most Canadians can not afford 100,000 dollars out of pocket to pay for the removal of a cyst at the Mayo clinic.
GwNorth
Excellent comments. As a corollary, it should be pointed out that no country, to the best of my knowledge, no matter what type of government that they have, has elected to emulate the health care system that the United System has placed upon its citizens. One would think that that statement would be an effective way to counter the fear and hysteria put forth by those on the right. That is, if those pushing for Obama's feeble public health option are able to get a word in edgewise over the fear mongering uttered by the conservatives and those who come packing guns at public health care events.
my only assumption is:
people who go to the USA for medical treatment are more likely than not RICH enough - to have all the expenses very manageable - where their countries don't have the more advanced MEDICAL treatments and facilities.
THIS modernity is what americans really mean about "having the best health care" - MODERNITY , ADVANCEMENT, TECHNOLOGY.....
but what GOOD is it if it's mostly out of reach of most people if they happen to have to pay out of pocket and no insurance?...
it then becomes a "health care" for "THE GODS" only. someone like Oprhah Winfrey, some kid of a person who owns many restaurants....famous successful rich people who can walk in to any "most advanced" clinic in the world ....
this is where an advanced society - for all its power and wealth and science and technology FAILS humanity as a whole...instead of what science advances were supposed to be as a part of human progress - to ALLEVIATE suffering for as many as possible and even, eventually for ALL.
but the USA system - beyond all others that has the ABILITY to advance betterment for all , partly by making health care not MERELY in terms of "affordability" as that "debate" around a BASIC HUMAN need and right circles around , instead
makes the PROFIT MOTIVE so paramount that the scientific advances might as well be USELESS for the majority of people.
it is about as good as having HAD NO medical advances at all if such advances were denied to people because they are too poor or "too rich" to be on "public assistance" as the US system dictates...and that in order to be treated - they have to IMPOVERISH themselves first or as a result of it.
what kind of society is that?
at least poor nations - often poor through the colonial legacies left by countries LIKE the USA - with such devastated systems or left unable to "catch up" due to the global structure dictated by a country such as the USA have the EXCUSE - bad as it is - that if they can't care for all their citizens --- it is simply because they are TOO POOR.
but the USA has NO excuse like that whatsoever.
it can't take care of people living in the USA because the System DEMANDS profiteering and serves as a DENIER of providing for the welfare of people, their health and living a happy, joyful life because they don't have to worry about how to be taken care of when they have aches and pains ....
all because health care in the USA is just another "Lamb" to be sacrificed to the Altar of the Almighty Dollar.
and so - doctors become more like people who entered medicine in order to one day get the "Payback" for their "schooling" so they can buy 3 mansions and fill 5 garages with sportscars....hospitals become "bed counters"....for their investors...nursing homes become Slave Plantations for overworked, underpayed workers who become the daily "family" of the old people who can't turn themselves in bed anymore and their own families won't or can't wipe their behinds or talk to them and hold their hands when they cry...as nurses are forced to check every chart and fill in every record of how much a patient "consumed" of thickened water - so the ACCOUNTANT and Supply coordinator can decide how much to CUT from the supplies to
MAXIMIZE the profits of the nursing home , from administration salaries up to the investors and board members...
while the patients become living guinea pigs for pharmaceuticals pushing their fancy, expensive drugs that, essentially do NOTHING to ease the loneliness of the old or sick people because underpaid understaffing has to take CARE of so many of them....
and then they are instructed to do it all with a "smile" or ELSE , be Fired, and NEVER say anything BAD about the institution ...
what kind of society is that?.
I would suggest that Americans going out of country are going for cheaper care, not better care.
I would think that many coming here are doing so to get cosmetic as you suggested, skip waiting times or for cancer treatment which has far superior sucess rates in the US than anywhere else.
There is no doubt that the best medical care is in the US, that most medical advances and new drugs are developed by American companies and doctors...thats empirical fact.
Problem is.....thats not our problem. Our problem is lack of coverage for up to 20 million p[eople and lack of affordable coverage for most everbody. Make no mistake, the insurance companies in the US are becoming very aggressive about denying payment. Doctors are not taking Medicaid new patients and many are starting to refuse Medicare patients.
Seems to me the only real answer is Single Payer and these YoBo's have just repeated Hillarycare, but now called Obamascare, thier arrogance and dishonesty have screwed us.
"BTW I can not find reliable statistics on the total number of Foreigners who travel to the US to get health Care."
I tried too, but no luck.....I wouldn't think it was that many....too darned expensive.
Cheaper care is surely the dominant reason, but cheaper care usually means better care too.
My wife gave birth to my son in Mexico rather than the US because she could get far better care at the price that we could afford. Money was a big factor, but we also appreciated the staff's fluent Spanish and greater flexibility over procedures, as well as their delivering one simple bill instead of 16 mysterious threats of collection. I would note too that we spent far less time waiting in doctors' offices and that hospitals were not short-staffed, as they were in the States.
Of course, we knew the doctors we dealt with - a particularly critical issue where government regulation is reduced.
Stateside, one also has to put up with considerable restrictions over prescription, price being only one of these. When I got the turistas in Mexico, I dragged myself crosseyed to the corner botica, asked for antibiotics, and a 14-year-old behind the counter pulled out a Physician's Desk Reference so I could make a choice.
It's kind of hard to imagine that many would come to the US for health care. Poor people cannot. The rich can pay for stellar care where they are. And anyone in another country with a fairly high rate of literacy can get better care for less.
I think thats fair comment....except in general you cannot find better treatment or care than in the US.
Doesn't do you any good if you can't afford it, can't access it or left out in the cold altogether.
Socialized medicine in England is the pits, and in any other country its failed....but Single Payer systems have worked and are working. Its our system and access to it we are talking about, not the care itself.
I think your point about Mexico could be a look at the future. Why shouldn't Americans go there for the same care at better prices? Wouldn't that force better prices here? I believe it would. It would help Mexico and us.....thats a win-win. The only losers being our ins. Co.'s. Thats capitalism at work, not what we have now.
Thanks for a great post! Great information and points....especially about the medications! Thanks a bunch.
You're first three paragraphs sound like a patriotic party line. I suppose that you are speaking from direct experience? I lived in germany for eight years and can without a doubt inform you that your statements are either completely false or questionable. The care i received there was of the highest quality ,VERY reasonable in cost and about the same in waiting times as in the US, about 5 to fifteen minutes . The drugs are in some cases superior. For example, i was being treated for herniated discs and was prescribed paracetemol [sp?] similar to Tylenol with less liver damage side effect. Also i was taking Katadolon similar in effect to narcotic drugs but without addictive properties. the medical equipment is absolute first class and in many cases invented in Germany. In closing, i subscribe to the tenet, If we don't experience something first hand, then it is hearsay.
I can only go by the reports and statistics that refer to these facts. If more people die with Breast cancer in GB than the US....45% more say, you can safely say our outcomes are better.
Do you have something against being patriotic? Those first three lines are empirically true. Like it or not. Of coursde I'm patriotic, I'm no traitor or free rider.
You should look up where the drugs you like so much came from. And the diagognostic machines used on you.
When anyone tells me only one side is right, alarms go off.
1-Going only by reports and not by individual direct experience was/is exactly my point.
2- Patriotism is one of the most divisive forms of governmental brainwashing ever invented. It inherently carries the eventual need for defensive or offensive aggression. Your retort is indicative of this. Accepting the concept of patriotism into ones personality is inviting difference and superiority. this attitude is not helpful in the calming of the world wide chaos we see.
3- I believe Katadolon [TD] for flupirtinmaleat comes from a Swiss company and paracetamol , im not sure, but both enough though safer, are not allowed in the US , probably because of our drug lobby.
4- " When anyone tells me only one side is right, alarms go off "??? Thats exactly what you were spewing ! The tone of your opening remarks were very one sided and arrogantly superior in nature. I was merely pointing out that there is creativity and intelligence outside the USA. OMG, how unpatriotic of me to say that. Oh well,
God bless America ,and nowhere else.
You have a habit of making things up on the fly.
I have provided MANY links that show JUST AS EXAMPLE that Canadas rates with 13 of 15 types of cancers are superior to Americas.
Why would you make speil the jargon without even researching the facts? Can you provide me with statistics that demonstrate both SUPERIOR care and better outcomes in the USA when compared to other countries.
Please no Slogans . Just the facts.
The cancer facts are clear...I'll do my best to find them again and post down the road. Nothing made up my friend. Generally speaking the overall statement is correct for Canada and the Us. Europe is far worse generally.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2783055
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems#Health_care_outcomes
http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/49525427.html
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596
hi nevergiveup -- it's so funny - you are probably the third person here who has visited my home country, philippines.
of course it's poor and all that and so many problems they are struggling with - but beside the point in this article.
i just wanted to say i hope you at least enjoyed some of your visit there and that people were respectful towards you. I would feel ashamed if they weren't.
it's a poor country -- but I know that despite the sorry economy and lack of funds, there has been for generations at least SOME semblance of a national "health care" that they're always trying to expand and cover as many as possible properly or at least with some minimum decency. I think they call it "social health system" or something like that.
when i visited home many years ago - in the hometown - i suddenly woke up one day with a severe, really severe tooth ache...just propitious timing..regardless of how the infection got in and WHERE ...but maybe the tooth was already on its way anyway ....
but my sister sent me to the dentist a few streets away...i paid her what amounted to , i think, less than even 10 dollars (since it was probably 50 pesos to a dollar then) ..whatever....(it's a filipino trait in such things...the poor can't REALLy be turned away but will try to pay whatever they have - and that's "acceptable"...but those who can afford better will have to behave respectably and pay "market") ...
anyway - that's about what I did - whatever money my sister gave me in local currency .
dentist extracted the huge infection...and then told me to come back the next week..
this time she wanted to CLEAN all the teeth, close any other holes with fillings.. etc....the works really. and she did a beautiful job.
that was ten years ago - and knock on wood - everything's still fine. and it all cost me , including patient, "just like old times" treatment like i never left...just a few dollars worth.
i've read reports that americans are even taking travels to india , such as in travle packages which include Dental or medical work as part of the package because it's so cheap and efficient and properly done and respectfully. it's worth the plane tickets. ..rather than agonize about "insurance co-pay, out of pocket, in-system doctors or clinics or hospitals" in the USA..
those countries OF COURSE are out to make earnings - especially from foreigners bringing higher value currencies ...but at least - they acknowledge that by giving real value for the payment...rather than in teh USA where people seem to be made to feel as if they are BOTHERING doctors or the "health provider" business ....while paying with their arms and legs.....
Anyone notice that the author uses the word "socialized" in the title to mean low quality? That is bad PR for the socialists out there. The article does a good job dispelling common rumors, but whether or not these other health care systems are socialized isn't discussed.
Your right on that TP. But this was published in the Washington Post where those kinds of discussion are absolutely verbotten by the editors and publishers, so I think Reid did a fine job.
Glad to see there's somebody who actually declares him/herself as a Texas Progressive. It's a pretty tuff uphill slog here, even when you live in the so-called "progressive" Valhalla of Austin where banks and real estate interests rule anything that matters.
TJ
Yes, I live in Austin. I must admit that I don't follow local politics as closely as I should. Sounds like I need to.
I am sure you are right about the title, and I agree that the article does a very good job dispelling common myths in a very thorough and convincing way.
Ya'll are making me homesick. I used to live in Austin but was forced to relocate to East Texas, which seems to be home to the tea party movement. On last night's local news they covered a "tea party" in Tyler. The teabaggers were carrying signs that were voicing opposition to "socialism and socialized medicine" and the dumping of any public health insurance option because it would unfairly compete with private health insurance companies. One of the keynote speakers at the tea party was none other than a health insurance salesman, who they were loudly cheering on (obviously someone who had the public's interest in mind when speaking, lol!) Austin is an intellectual oasis in the middle of a huge desert. I guess you just don't realize how nice it is until you venture away.
Unless I misread, you did - for what it's worth. I do not take the author to disparage socialism, only to point out that partially socialized systems operate variously.
Socialized medicine? Not yet -- but we can work towards it.
Yes, you are right and I was mistaken. In the title, I thought he was referring to the health care systems in other countries, saying their systems aren't quite socialized medicine, since health care in other countries was mainly discussed. But you are right. He is saying that we don't(and won't no matter what is passed) have socialized medicine, but it would be great if we did. I see it now. Thanks.
I consider myself a "Socialist" because I consider it the Height of "Progressive-thinking." However, thanks to the decades of programming (Which continues to this day) many people hear the word, the programming kicks in, and a totally parroted response comes out.
I would like to share the TRUTH about Democratic Socialism here and hope you will read, clip, paste, and send to as many open-minded, free-thinking, or confused people as possible.
My political hero, Dennis Kucinich, is technically a Democratic Socialist and yet still clings to hope in the Dumbnocrat party. Jump, Dennis. JUMP!!!
ttp://www.dsausa.org/pdf/widemsoc.pdf
I too am a socialist of the social Democrat variety. Like Kucinich, I realize that our two party system is not going away in the near future. I would like to have ten people like Kucinich in Congress and a couple more in the Senate. I would also like those numbers to rise in each election and with those rising numbers, increased clout within the party. Those are realistic goals. I think Leary tried dropping out and I don't think that works as evidenced by our baby boomer government.
This piece is comprehensive, concise (efficient) and comprehnsible: unlike the US "healthcare system."
Kudos to T.R. Reid for committing an increasingly rare act that has almost become a crime in the US mainstream media: accurate and well-written journalism.
Too bad that he didn't do more of that when he was on the Washington Post staff. Maybe living in Japan has gotten his mind right and built up his backbone a bit.
It would help tremendously if the entire health care issue, whether "socialized" or otherwise, were dropped entirely from the initial stages of the debate. Health care, as such, really has nothing whatever to do with the primary issue.
It's all about revenue handling and whether the insurance industry makes any contribution worthy of extracting huge profits from the collection and dispersement of the funds used to pay for health care services. The answer to that should be so obvious as to warrant no debate at all. They not only contribute no "value added" health care benefit whatever, much of their unearned profit is actually derived from the denial of needed services.
Only Americans are so dedicated to their own inculcated version of capitalist orthodoxy that profits for such "value subtracted" functions could even be considered as a debatable issue.
You are correct.
This is not about Health Care at all, but how to pay for it and how to provide insurance coverage for those that don't have it.
Obviously "socialized" health care like the UK's is NOT the answer. But I believe Single Payer is. The question is....which version would work best for us, or should we steal the best from all of them.
We might be able to come back in 2012 and get Single Payer, but reform is dead for now.
Agreed. I certainly don't have a problem with profitable reimbursements for people who actually make a valuable contribution to our wellbeing. On the other hand, paying people for doing exactly the opposite just doesn't seem to make any sense at all.
Yep!!
I would also agree. We are always thinking of how to pay for the escalating costs. There is never a real analysis of the reasons for these escalating costs, which is complex and goes far beyond administrative waste and built-in, exorbitant, profit. Like the medical establishment in general, we want to treat symptoms, not causes. Cost too high? Well, let's take more money from everyone to pay for it. Truly a redistribution of wealth from middle to top.
Beyond "capitalist orthodoxy" is a fascist system where "unapproved", yet very effective treatments are banned or doctors punished for healing patients with them. See "War on Holistic MDs"--many citings for same original article. You will never have decent, cost controlled health care without the Access to Medical Freedom Act. If we had anything resembling a free market, all of us would have access to low-cost treatments and physicians would actually know about them and how to use them. Read "Why Stomach Acid is Good For You" by lJV Wright, MD and L. Lenard, PhD
Other countries, who implemented systems before the monopoly was quite so entrenched are now running up against the system. A year or two ago in Germany, they arrested a truck driver for drug smuggling because he was hauling garlic capsules. It was thrown out by a German court, but what if it was a not so common food, or an herb like echinacea? BEWARE CODEX which is coming in the back door with any health care reform. There is a provision in the food safety bill to criminalize anyone making a health claim not approved by the FDA.
And the villian IS:......
THE CORPORATION. EVERYTHING FOR PROFIT. LEGALIZED PROFITEERING.
Same with prisons.
Same with national "defense".
Same with the "war" on drugs.
Same with homeland "security".
Same with FEMA.
Same with....add your own.
Again: ttp://www.dsausa.org/pdf/widemsoc.pdf
The only reasonable conclusion one can come to after reading T.R. Reid's piece is, to paraphrase Gen. Tommy Franks, that we are the dumbest f***ing people in the world.
Overall, a great article -- especially considering it's from WaPo. Agree about the misleading use of "socialized" to indicate poor quality. And the misleading use of "private insurers" to mean "like the US", which later is clarified that in fact only private insurers in the US are allowed to make a PROFIT off of health care. As if this is a minor detail. Very misleading to compare Germany and Switzerland with the US!!! Private insurance is highly regulated in these countries. Why not say "private, non-profit insurers" or just describe other health care delivery systems as non-profit, versus our for-profit system? This is the real difference -- not government vs. non-government, but non-profit vs. for profit, investor controlled insurance. (Note: non-profit does not mean nobody earns a good living -- it just means nobody gets something for nothing).
You know, where I live, we have understood that there is a problem with total socialization. That is why I know that for every dollar I make, 55 cents of that dollar goes to betterment of the society I live in, which is good for me as well as everyone else, I will explain later. While the remaining 45 cents are what I compete for, I step on toes for, I push and shove like a greedy bastard and that is my incentive for earning those first 55 cents and I see no problem with because when I've busted my ass broke for the 45 cents of profit per dollar and it no longer moves for me, I have invested 55 cents to make sure that I can be taken care of, treated and live a worthy life, who pray tell, does not want to live a worthy life? I still have 45 cents on the dollar to try to be successful.
(Being totally positive here, I will put in one point that I find wrong with the system) I live in a Kingdom, therefore, there are still some roots of a feudal society left, which make it difficult for me to get a chance to show my true worth in a career of my choice, (I do believe this is a systemic failure of old roots of feudalism and not of social democracy).
Here are the benefits of paying a lion's share of my daily toil to making a healthier society.
1. People are healthy around me, so I have less chance to contract a disease from the surrounding populace.
2. People are healthy around me, so they can work harder, and more efficiently for longer if need be.
3. People are highly educated around me leading to a much more efficient working environment with enlightened colleagues and more thoughtful surroundings.
4. There are very, very few homeless people, and even they are taken care of, which leads to fewer crimes of desperation.
5. Companies and entrepreneurs still strive to compete just as hard as they would if they paid no taxes, they just also have to play fair, meaning that enslaving people for profit is a bit more difficult and heavily regulated.
Reid's is a very fine compendium of ideas to demolish the "socialized medicine" foolishness that has arisen at health care "forums." I find one intriguing omission, however, in his section on the universality of coverage in any "universal health care" system. Nowhere in his article do I find a rebuttal to another of the claims that forum yahoos are claiming: that the currently proposed legislation (to the extent one can easily tell) will allow coverage for "illegal immigrants." I've noticed that defenders of the Obama plan have called this a "lie" and cited chapter and line in the legislation excluding coverage for illegal immigrants. This is, in my view, an outrageous admission between both sides of the debate that, in this land of opportunity which has "welcomed" the "wretched refuse" of people from foreign countries would it deny medical treatment to people because they don't happen to have the appropriate paper-work of being American citizens. So I'd like to know from Mr. Reid or any other knowledgable person whether these "all-inclusive" coverage systems in other countries include those who are not natives or documented immigrants. Knowing about the level of anti-immigrant phobia in many parts of western Europe today, I'd be a little surprised if they did extend their coverage this way. If they do, it's all the more reason for us in the U.S. to say: "if Denmark does it..."
It's strictly a question of how the U.S. (or any other nation) regulates and controls its various entitlements for citizens, immigrants and others. Generally speaking, you can get health services anywhere you wish, but I'm not aware of any country that pays for it out of public funds if you're not a legal resident. In some cases (e.g., Canada), a photo ID card is required.
How about those various anecdotes from "Sicko" of Americans going to other countries like Cuba and getting medical care absolutely free?
I'm not certain that this was intentional, Jerry, but the question is the answer.
There may be various ways to accomplish it, but the common denominator is that enlightened nations have escaped, or at least loosened, the choking chains of capitalism sufficiently to achieve a mature, humane, enlightened dynamic: treat first, ask questions later.
Just from watching and reading endless "anecdotal" stories, beneath many dissimilar factual matrices is a clear, shining, and impressive "bottom line" in which it is only necessary for a person requiring health care to show up and ask for it. And if the prospective patient is in no condition to "ask" for it, it is provided anyway.
Such a noble conviviality will never be reached in a nation corrupted by capitalism, in which elected misrepresentatives and banksters alike flit about collusively like steroid-pumped Peter Pans, with the exclusive object of maximizing their wealth.
Thus, the Amerikan custom of first wrapping prospective patients in a shroud of red tape, then rationing care in proportion to which the tape can be unwound. Or maybe it's a form of litmus tape that changes from red to green, like a stoplight.
In Amerika, unlike the civilized world, corporate insurance-based private health care places the burden on the patient to establish their right to coverage and compensation. In non-predatory systems, the health care provider carries the burden to provide care.
And remember, in civilized nations it isn't charities or faith-based Magic Christians on a spree accomplishing this Impossible Dream. It's mundane, routine gummint work.
Made possible by a citizenry and political leaders not permanently mad with fear, hysteria, and occasional frenzy elicited by professional demagoguery from a corrupt political elite and its corporate media propaganda wing.
We're the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, get it?
Point out one freaking word in the National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance about compassion, mercy, and generosity of spirit!
· Yr Obd't Servant
since we are discussing "socialized" medicine..i think one of the things always worth remembering is the significance of contrasts and developments in the globe - as countries or regions - such as USA - change in their course.
what i mean is:
today - it seems clear that "the centers of power" have been shifting - from "west to east" as emerging asian countries that were forced to become "savers" after decades of western impositions , likely , as a result of much of their "sovereign wealth" and productions' EARNINGS were always "exported" to the coffers of western countries, in particular the USA which has had the biggest influence there.
but NOW - as China has been emerging - to currently be "one-third the size of the US economy" (achieving this in 30 years SINCE it broke its isolation compared to the USA achieving its status in 250 plus years of building global empire) - a fascinating point of reference is that as PART of China's national development and economic development policy....
NATIONAL HEALTH Care, or its improvement and expansion to eventually cover its teeming hundreds of millions and billion
is among those "development" plans.
to be certain they have plenty of problems - but it seems that they recognize from a national point of view that to BE highly developed AND stable - in keeping with their SIZE , potential and of course their own historical "pride" for their "national destiny" as a great nation - working to ensure that the citizens are covered in health care is a fundamental part of that "national destiny".
it also of course also addresses not just economic things but a restive people is always dangerous to ":the party"...
and one of the things they obviously have decided is important to at LEAST be seen by the population as "responsible leaders" (a very important asian sentiment) - is ensure the population has its HEALTH taken care of WITHOUT sucking out their savings...as is the case in the USA.
it is ironic.
whatever china BECOMES or develops into as a great power - which seems inevitable and is probably just a natural development of its very long existence in human history anyway, which was obviously "choked" for the last 2 centuries ,
it is certainly simply "returning" to what it already WAS for centuries: a great power and civilization..whatever people think of that about china.
as of today - economists across the globe seem to have been taken by SURPRISE -- that China's emergence to eventually , according to THEIR predictions for years now , not just RIVAL but SUPPLANT the United States as the world's BIGGEST and most powerful economy ,
"is arriving FASTER than we anticipated"...according to a New York Times Article..explaining how the "recovery from the recent global recession is starting in ASIA - through" china's having kept , for its part, stable - perhaps , alone in the world while the recession has been going on...and now seems to be the true center of the asian recovery which IN TURN is becoming the "engine of world growth and recovery"......
which in TURN -- has made EUROPE itself SURPRISED that THEIR expected recovery is now TIED to Asia....
and finally of course the country that STARTED and CAUSED the global recession through its many long shenanigans....
THE USA -- being "dragged" along to "recovery".......
ironic :
the USA - even were it to "recover" as a consumer and exporting country - is now - according to the article:
"being shouldered aside" EVEN as the "main engine of recovery" by other countries.......
with the example that china ITSELF NO LONGER has the USA as its MAIN export partner - but it is shifting TO europe, japan and south america.
from articles i have read over the months.,....far from perfect or even desirable as they are -- china seems to be placing a GREAT DEAL of importance and priority to the health of its citizens....which is why even isolated instances of "poisoning of children" around factories is met with almost panicky response , lest the population gets more incensed.
a commentator in the article summed it up:
"as china emerges to perhaps become the world's premiere economy...with MONEY comes influence and making friends"......as it seems to be tolerably being seen by its asian neighbors , WARY as they are and SHOULD BE..which acts as a "control" over china to "behave itself" LEST it fall into the same rut as the "global empire" toting USA as everyone can see now.
the irony here is :
where china seems to be using its growing influence and money to EMPHASIZE what it says is its commitment to "making friends" with its influence...
IN CONTRAST what the United States has done in its 2 centuries of "emergence" has been to MAKE ENEMIES and COERCE them.
YOS: thank you for framing a good part of my unease about the current or "reform"- proposed health care system in America. "Ask and ye shall receive" should be the operative rule of distribution, but Amerika as you aptly call it wants to wrap "entitlement" into dense bundles for determination of "eligibility." Elimination of "prior conditions" restrictions is a step in the right direction but only a fully socialized principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is going to make a "civilized" version of our barbaric health care system. In college when I worked in a biology library, my boss had a policy that only graduate students were eligible to go into the library's stacks. When of my fellow workers was chastised by the boss for allowing access to under-graduates, he protested to her: "But Mrs. J., how do I tell the difference? They LOOK so human!"
For profit greed has a lot to do with this barbarism. Nevertheless, there is still a tab, even if a greatly reduced one. Ask and ye shall receive, but also be 'willing to pay, if you can.' The United has so many dis-functionalities (and gross inequities) that universal coverage will force it to address as a nation. Since these issues are interrelated, they will have to be addressed simultaneously, if universal coverage is to succeed. The good news is that other nations have successfully dealt with them (to a greater or lesser extent) and succeeded, and so can we. Unfortunately, we are presently too polarized as a nation to 'give' in the spirit of cooperation: either we want it for nothing, or feel smug in the assurance that we already 'got ours,' and do not want to budge an inch to help others get theirs, not realizing how easily 'we' could become 'them.' Unless we quit listening to the malicious slander and propaganda and wake up, we may soon find that the window of opportunity has shut tight.
"Point out one freaking word in the National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance about compassion, mercy, and generosity of spirit!"
Its not needed. Its self evident and plainly evident.
I would point out that France no longer offers coverage to just anyone and none to illegal aliens anymore. The fact of economics has intruded.
We aren't all bad you know....
No other country in the world allows the gift of citizenship to anyone that happens to be born in their country except us. So we are fairly compassionate or just more stupid than the rest of the world. Depends on your point of departure......
Henry8 - "No other country allows the gift of citizenship to anyone that happens to be born in their country except us."
That is completely wrong. The USA is not the only nation that confers citizenship via Jus Soli (citizenship via place of birth), others include: Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Mexico, Uruguay, Venezuela, plus more than 20 others.
It is sad, really, that Americans must do so. However, at what point will Cuba have to say, "no more," even if it wishes to continue? With far fewer resources than the US, one would expect them to reach a 'crises level' rather quickly. Again, there is nothing 'absolutely free.' Cuba must pay for all the medical care it renders. Apparently, they render it far more efficiently than we do, so we could learn a lot from them.
I'm sorry, they're are no free lunches, and limits to everything. At what point does the proverbial straw break the camel's back--even an efficient camel (which medical care in the US is NOT)? While universal medical coverage should be as efficient as possible, it still has to be PAID FOR. I for one am willing to pay higher taxes for this coverage, but also realize that there will be limits to what such a system can and cannot do. Is compassion at the expense of practical considerations really compassion at all? Can any nation provide unrestricted medical care to large populations who would cross their border for such benefits? And is it fair to those who are contributing?
Look at what is happening--has happened--already: border states are feeling an enormous financial squeeze when attempting to provide care for an ever increasing immigrant population--a population being exploited by multiple businesses in order to maximize profits. Unless these businesses pony up, there can be no other outcome than bankruptcy. If bankruptcy occurs, and benefits are curtailed or even terminated, then everyone will lose, including those who do not contribute (let me say here that the contribution should be a graduated one based on income, meaning the rich pay more, and pay whether or not they choose to use the system, but that is a different matter. Additionally, businesses employing 'undocumented' immigrants should be made to take responsibility for these workers. This also could be a part of 'immigration reform.' We give them a choice if caught: keep their workers and care for them [i.e., help them get naturalized, visas, etc., or pay heavy fines and even serve jail time.] This would help the worker in many ways, and be compassionate as well, no? Also, it would reduce the influx of immigrants rushing across the border to work under the table).
The issue of immigration is intricately related to universal coverage, and must be addressed within it. While mercy and compassion should be the goal, practical matters have to be addressed as well, if there is to be any workable system at all. In the US people want 'entitlements' without contribution, and the universe simply does not work that way. That being said, the for-profit system we have now, which is bloated and inefficient, must be replaced by a sane and efficient one, if we are to have an resonable coverage at all.
chessgames56
Thanks for real conversation about this problem. It is a very real problem, especially for those of us that border Mexico. The latest figure for the cost to Texas is about 4 billion dollars.
Time for a lot of this BS to sink under its own weight. As Jerry pointed out above, the truth is that the plan now would indeed cover illegal aliens and they are lying thru their teeth saying it won't. At the same time you've got the other side blowing up bubbles of BS just as bad.
Makes it hard to hold adult conversations about this, health care and most other points these days. Glad you started one.