Civilian Death Toll Rises After Second Day of Air Strikes
Death toll moves above 300. Calls for investigation after seven students at UN college die in missile attacks
To the doctors at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City it was another body on a chaotically busy day. By early Saturday afternoon the morgue was already overflowing so they laid out the corpse of 20-year-old Ali Abu Rabia on the floor outside. One of the hospital staff pulled out a mobile phone from his pocket, scrolled through the numbers, and called the young man's father.
"I
was at work. Someone from the hospital called and said they had found
my son," said Marwan Abu Rabia, 44, a plumber. "I went straight to the
hospital and found him lying on the floor outside the morgue. There
were too many bodies. It looked like a massacre."
The hospital was so crowded staff held back relatives outside the building and turned away the lightly injured. They struggled to treat the seriously hurt, some of whom lay on beds in the corridors because of the congested wards.
Palestinian officials said the death toll from Saturday's air strikes was at least 280, with another 600 people injured. Most are thought to be police or security officials, but among the casualties were many civilians.
Several more Palestinians were killed and injured yesterday, although the Israeli air strikes were less extensive. One Israeli civilian was killed on Saturday by a rocket fired by Palestinian militants from Gaza.
Ali Abu Rabia was a student at a UN vocational college for Palestinian refugees in the Rimal district of Gaza City. He sat an exam on Saturday morning, his father said, and after the first Israeli air strikes decided to go home. He was standing in the street with others when an Israeli missile struck, at around 1.30pm. Reportedly it had been aimed at a policeman seen nearby with a walkie-talkie.
"It was a place full of students. It was not a military base. But in spite of this they still attacked, all because of one policeman," said Ali's father as he greeted mourners at a funeral tent at his home yesterday "Our situation is very bad and the cause is Israel. The response has to be very tough." He said he doubted there would be a peace agreement with Israel in the coming years. "I don't believe they want an independent Palestinian state," he said.
In that single air strike seven students were killed and another 20 were injured. The Guardian has learned of several other civilians who were killed and injured in the same strike on Saturday.
Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the UN Relief and Works Agency, which supports Palestinian refugees and feeds 750,000 Gazans, called for an inquiry into the attack. "Grave question marks hang over this killing ... There must be an investigation and the facts must get out. There must be accountability."
Another funeral tent was put up at a family home a few hundred metres away. Nehru Rayes, 47, was presiding over a funeral for his two sons Hisham, 25, a carpenter, and Alam, 18, who had been at school, and their cousin Abdullah, 21, who ran an internet cafe. All three were killed in the street, in the same air strike.
Rayes, a petrol station attendant, learned from the Shifa hospital that all three were dead, and that two other relatives had been injured. Representatives from the rival Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas had come to his house offering, as usual, to help with the costs of the funeral. He refused them both. "We've become like the homeless, begging for electricity, cooking gas and food," he said.
He spoke of the "corruption" of the previous Fatah governments and then said of the Hamas leaders: "They have everything they want: cooking gas, generators, and they can move whenever they want. But the Palestinian people are suffering."
Like many in Gaza yesterday, he spoke angrily of a desire for revenge against Israel. "When they fight face to face with armed groups that's OK, but when they attack civilians it's not acceptable," he said. "We need to go back to a ceasefire, eventually, but it has to mean all the crossings are open again and life returning to normal."
As he spoke another relative, Morad Rayes, 46, interrupted: "The disagreement between Hamas and Fatah gave the Israelis the reason to attack Gaza. All the ordinary people are suffering in this bad economic situation. It's just those belonging to the factions who benefit. We are facing a tough enemy. We have to be united."
Inside the Shifa hospital yesterday there were still relatives pouring through the corridors, looking for the injured. Most of the wounded spoke bitterly of their experience.
Mohammad Jahjouh, 21, lay on a hospital bed with cuts to his legs and side. He was injured late on Saturday night when an Israeli missile struck a mosque close to the hospital. "I thought I was dead but then I started to move my hands and legs and I screamed for help," he said. He was carried into the hospital. "It's unjust, unfair and aggression. After this huge number of casualties it would be a sign of weakness for us to ask for a ceasefire."
Gaza's streets were largely empty yesterday, with most shops closed and queues only at local bakers where people were stocking up with supplies.
Mowaffaq Alami, 35, was close to the main security headquarters, the Suraya, in Gaza on Saturday when it was attacked in the first round of Israeli air strikes at around 11am. "People were walking through the streets just like a normal day, children coming home from school. Suddenly, without any warning, the bombing started. We didn't even see the jets in the sky. That's why so many people were killed," he said. He said the first round of attacks was over within a few minutes but left dozens dead.
Alami lives in an apartment nearby and runs the Gaza office of One Voice, an initiative that works to support a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. "People are following the news, wondering what's coming next," he said. "People are very worried there may be an invasion. We used to plan our lives day by day. Now, it's hour by hour."
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181 Comments so far
Show Allmymicz1 - I would like to respond to some of your comments:
ACCUSATION: RACISM - "Once again, for all of you blatant racists on Commondreams..."
ANSWER: Having read several books about the history of Israel and the Middle East e.g.
"The Ethnic Cleasing of Palestine" by ILAN PAPE
"One Palestine, Complete"; "1949, The First Israelis"; and "1967" by TOM SEGEV
"Sowing the Wind" by JOHN KEAY and "The Great War for Civilization" by ROBERT FISK
This article (shortened version) is also very revealing in exposing one of the myths surrounding the creation of Israel and the "ancient right" to live in Palestine : "Are the Jews an Invented people?" http://mondediplo.com/2008/05/18invented
The saddest thing about the whole sordid story of Israel´s creation is the underlying RACISM both of the colonial powers (The infamous Balfour declaration was built on the description of Palestine as "a land without people (750.000 Arabs did not count,...) for "a people without land"(!) and of the Jewish leaders who always considered themselves superior to the Arab people. The discrimination goes on even among Jews, who differentiate between Ashkenazim (of Middle European descent, speaking Jiddish, related to German) and Sephardim (descendants of Iberian Jews, who lived peacefully under Muslim rule until 1492 when the Catholic Renconquista expelled or killed them; survivors fled to Nothern Africa or to countries of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey).
The great irony here is that UNDER MUSLIM RULE Jews and Christians were NOT persecuted but under Christian (Catholic) rule there was no religious tolerance but torture and death in the name of the one true faith.... Today Sephardim are mainly seen as descendants from Muslim (Arab) people and according to this school of thought they are inferior to Jews of European (white?) descent.
CLAIM: "Killing Hamas militia men is not a massacre." (!)
ANSWER: "If you dehumanise your enemy, he will dehumanise you in turn"
4781 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli security forces (2990 in Gaza),
2222 of those did NOT take part in hostilities incl. 952 CHILDREN
490 Israeli civilians have been killed by Palestinians
SOURCE: http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp
"Serious questions arise over the proportionality of Israel`s military response (to rocket attacks from Gaza) and its failure to distinguish between military and civilian targets... Israel has violated the most fundamental rules of humanitarian law, which constitute war crimes in terms of article 147 of the Forth Geneva Conventions... These crimes include direct attacks against civilians and civilian objects... the excessive use of force in these attacks... "
Excerpt from the Report of the UN Human Rights Council, read the whole document here:
http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refworld/rwmain?docid=47baaa262
and also on the humanitarian crisis:
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/gaza_implosion.html
Here in Europe we have seen countless documentaries about the Nazis and have learned that once you succeed in dehumanizing a certain group of people, eventually stripping them of any rights, ordinary citizens can be turned into criminals, torturers and killing machines. As long as the rulers can brainwash the soldiers into believing that no matter how cruel or unjust they are, they are doing it for a higher cause, for "holy" principles, in "self-defense"...
In short: "Our" destruction and terror is ultimately GOOD, while the violence of our opponents is per definition EVIL, even if they act in retaliation (self-defense) to "OUR" longterm violation of THEIR rights. Hamas is the product of Israel´s brutal repression and violations of Palestinian rights for 60 years, it is an effect, not a cause of the conflict...
I find it unbearable that Israeli leaders, who abuse the Shoa to perpetuate the perception of the eternal victim and silence critics by labelling them anti-semitic, have treated the Palestinians as inferior people, stripped them of their rights, keep stealing their land by building new colonies (settlements) in the West Bank, humiliate them on a daily basis, lock them up in the open-air prison of Gaza, use collective punishment on innocent civilians, imprison teenagers and shoot at stone throwing children.....
The terrible thought that there are emerging parallels between the Nazi ideology of “superior” races having the right to treat “inferior” cultures and ethnic groups (“Arabushim” ?) as slaves, demonize them or even compare them to animals who can be crushed any time, simply does not go away..... (no comparison to the Holocaust of course)
I am not suggesting that all Israelis mistreat the Arab population or want to drive the Palestinians out. Many courageous progressive Israelis are appalled by their governments actions and understand that peace is not possible without RESPECTING the rights of the Palestinians and their dignity as human beings.
The UN-Report (page 6) has this to say about "Terrorism":
......"a distinction must be drawn between mindless acts of terror (Al Qaeda) and acts committed in the course of war of national liberation, apartheid or military occupation. While such acts cannot be justified, they must be understood ab being painful BUT INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCE OF COLONIALISM, APARTHEID OR OCCUPATION... Jewish groups resisted the British Occupation of Palestine - inter alia, by the blowing up of the King David Hotel in 1946 with heavy loss of life (91) by a group (IRGUN) masterminded by Menachem BEGIN, who later became PRIME MINISTER of Israel..."
See also on Google Video "Palestine is still the Issue" by John Pilger and "The Age of Terror"... (by the way, the father of Rahm Emanuel, soon to be White House Chief of Staff was also affiliated with the IRGUN...)
"No code of morals can justify the persecution of one people in an attempt to relive the persecution of another. The cure for the eviction of Jews from Germany is not to be sought in the eviction of the Arabs from their homeland and the relief of Jewish distress may not be accomplished at the cost of inflicting a corresponding distress upon an innocent and peaceful population.”
(George Antonius 1938)
How does a human being deal with this much grief?
I think if we were made to deal with the deaths of our children in such numbers on a regular basis we would find a solution to the problem sooner rather than later.
A comment by AMOS ZUKERMAN on December 30th, 2008 at 14:46:ON PALESTINE THINK TANK Website:
Quote: "I grow up in Israel, in 67 I was 14. I have received hard core Zionist indoctrination, I would like to collaborate Gilad's statement; Israelis are educated in the most appallingly racist way. as a result Israeli pilots can drop 1 ton booms on the most populated area in the world. you have to arrive at a point when you don't regard the people on the ground as fully human to do that. This combination of racism and the monsters unleashing of unopposed force Is the Nazi way. TO HELP PALESTINE 1: AN INTERNATIONAL WARRANT SHOULD BE ISSUED IMMEDIATELY AGINST THE PERPETRATORS 2;THE I.D.F SHOULD BE DECLARED A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION "
http://palestinethinktank.com/2008/12/29/gilad-atzmon-eine-kleine-nacht-murder-how-israeli-leaders-kil...
One can certainly make a case of war crimes against certain IDF soldiers and definitely with Sharon...but if you don't include a long list of Hamas fighters and leaders in that warrant as well then you are just engaging in selective prosecution....
"One can certainly make a case of war crimes against certain IDF soldiers and definitely with Sharon..."
Two things I can can almost agree with you today steel, you're slipping. :)
Once again, for all of you blatant racists on Commondreams, Hamas is an Iranian organization. They never pretend to be otherwise. The first two people killed before Israel fired a shot were two Palestinian girls killed by Hamas rockets. The second Qassam attack claimed a Bedouin. Most people in southern Israel are BEDOUIN!!!!! If you support the Palestinians, you should also support their elected president who says Hamas brought this on themselves. Most Israelis are not white. If you think this, you have not been to Israel. In fact, most are Iraqi, Yemeni, and Morroccan Jews who virtually switched places with the Palestinians when the British fucked everything up. They lost everything material just like the Palestinians. Killing Hamas militia men is not a massacre. The Sudanese govt that has killed hundreds of thousands is supporting Hamas. Clue...slavery, anti-gay, anti-women, genocide. This is what you support when you support Hamas, not Israel. Israeli's are as much pawns as Palestinians. And Never Again means never again, whatever it takes. Jews are an endangered species and should be on some list. We don't controll America, we don't want to. We don't even want Gaza. We just want the Islamofascists to leave us alone and the only thing Hamas responds to is an iron fist. If you care about Palestinians, you're way ahead of Hamas.
Then, heck, what we waiting for, let's just go to the source and bomb Iran.
No! Hamas was the elected government of the Palestinians in an election certified by the Carter Center:
"The Carter Center had monitored three Palestinian elections, including one for parliamentary seats in January 2006. Hamas had prevailed in several municipal contests, gained a reputation for effective and honest administration and did surprisingly well in the legislative race, displacing the ruling party, Fatah. As victors, Hamas proposed a unity government with Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah as president and offered to give key ministries to Fatah, including that of foreign affairs and finance."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/28/opinion/28carter.html
Elected that is until israel arrested MPs in the nascent Palestinian state:
"Israeli has arrested 40 Hamas lawmakers since June 2006, when Palestinians captured an Israeli soldier in a cross-border raid. Seven have been released after finishing their terms, but Hamas demands Israel release the rest as a part of an exchange deal.
Meanwhile, two-thirds of Palestinians support a plan that offers Israel full recognition by Arab countries in return for withdrawing from occupied lands, and nearly two-thirds of Israelis oppose it, according to a survey released on Tuesday.
The poll also indicated that a majority of Israelis and Palestinians support an extension of a truce between Israel and Gaza’s Hamas rulers."
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=152299
See also:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5269108.stm
The race of Israel's people and leaders does not matter, what matters is the state of Israel's immoral and illegal under international law policies such as blockades of food, medicine and fuel to Gaza, collective punishment of civilian populations is a war crime under the Geneva Conventions, arresting elected members of Parliament, and engaging in disproportionate response of killing hundreds of Palestinians and injuring almost 2000 in response to half a dozen Israelis deaths from crude rockets fired in frustration at Israel's abuse of Gazan's most basic human rights. And that is just regarding Gaza the litany of crimes against humanity committed by Israel against the West Bank is even longer and more shameful but beyond the scope of this thread. The whole world is watching mymicz1 and many millions of us find Israel's immoral and illegal behavior appalling, disgusting and shameful. The literally dozens of U.N. sanctions against Israel and condemnation by Amnesty International, The Red Cross, Human Rights Watch, and the Carter Center proves Israel is a pariah state.
Hamas is the elected government of Palestine however being elected into office does not pardon previous crimes and in the case of the 40 or so Hamas PM's that have been arrested they were former terrorist that killed Israeli civilians...
So unless your position is that elected officials cannot be arrested for anything (you want Bush to walk?) you must agree with the Hamas PM's being arrested for their crimes...They don't even deny that they kill Israeli civilians!!
Hamas has it's worts to be sure, but that doesn't justify Israel's Blitzkrieg like operation against the Palestinians in Gaza. You are the one that is racist. You can't have Peace without justice. Something Zionists will never understand.
Oh really?? What justifies war exactly?? How far can your neighbor go before you kick his ass? Are you willing to give your life for a madman in the name of pacifism? Israelis do not believe in pacifism because it got their relatives in Europe killed. I want answers specifically from you about where one draws the line? I am not racist, I am against any country that tries to stir hatred of anyone in the Middle East region and that is Iran which is clearly pro-nazi by their own declaration. If you are gay, you are dead in Iran, or forced to be a tranny. If you are a woman, you have no freedom. If you are in Sudan, you have truly been the victim of genocide. Sudan supports Hamas and vice versa. Hamas said they wanted an end to the ceasefire. When do they have to take responsability? Don't fill me with any whoey about racism. You probably still think all Israelis are white and Euro and that means you know nothing. Over 25% of the IDF is Arab Bedouin or Druze and against Hamas. Egypt is against Hamas. Fatah is against Hamas. Hamas kills Palestinians. Hamas buys things for themselves and steals supplies while their people starve. Hamas uses a college to make bombs. Using the term warts to describe an avowedly racist and sexist organization is the most idiotic understatement I have ever heard. When Islamofascism takes over and you lose all your freedom to speak I will be laughing at how naive you were as we walk to the gas chamber together.
Don't be an idiot. Your side is winning so shut up!
Civilized people with well developed ethics don't engage in rhetoric or behavior such as "How far can your neighbor go before you kick his ass? Sadly Israel and her Zionist apologists seem to lack the ethical qualities we see in civilized people. IMO Zionists traded the fine Jewish tradition of scholarship, wisdom, debate and learned culture for a militant nationalistic ie fascist colonization of a couple hundred square miles of infertile desert land which is sad to me.
Hootowl,
We've talked about Israel being nuked...don't lecture on proper behavior...
I don't need your permission to talk about anything dude, 1st amendment still applies in the U.S.
Of course it does, i was exercising my 1st amendment right in telling you that you ought to avoid giving etiquette lessons seeing how you have a habit of go off the deep end yourself...
Or are you one of those 'do as i say and not as i do' fellows?
So, how's it working out for you, Israel? Are the assassinations, genocide, secret incursions, and outright slaughter of your enemy bringing good will and peace to you? If you wipe out the Palestinians, will that solve your problem? You are good at wielding the stick the US gives you, choking supplies off from your enemy, bulldozing their homes--oh yeah, the homes of the militants--and fencing them in like dogs, forcing them to build tunnels to get supplies (which you say are bringing in the rockets).
Presently, you have the upper hand, for sure. You do not realize that you cannot escape the reality you create, the corruption of your own hearts, and especially the darkness of the violence you claim to abhor, but feed at every turn. As you see here, the spin is not working, most know this most recent massacre is one born of hatred. It's the monster that is growing like a cloud and has been choking your country for sometime now, and probably will soon be inbred (if it isn't already).
We do not believe that Israel wants peace but, like the US, selfish control over others. After all, you are superior to them, right? It's time to really look into your hearts, and put yourselves in the shoes of others. Then and only then will you be able bring a lasting and meaningful peace. You have to see that being a 'Jew' is a foolish division (as is being a Muslim), since we are all, first and foremost, human beings.
You are the more powerful, so it is up to you to show restraint, rather than massacre in retribution. This will not yield results overnight, but it will over time. You are getting what you have been giving for decades now, and it will not be long until your enemy gets some terrible weapon. So time is running out. You hate them as much as they hate you. It is time to get some sane leadership (elections will be taking place soon in Israel, no?) that will break this dark spell. Quit blaming and get to work on yourselves before it's too late.
Well put chessgame, bravo. Sadly I don't think the people of Israel are listening as last I heard Likud is ahead in the polls. Likud BTW has direct historical ties the Irgun and Stern Gang terrorists who invented the car bomb, engaged in bank robberies, and attempted to collaborate with the Nazis to kick the British out the area then known as Palestine. How did Israel treat it's own terrorists? Interestingly enough they gave them medals, google "Lehi medal"* if you don't believe me. In the Israelis way of thinking some terrorists are more equal than others. It's this sort of thing that causes me to doubt Zionists crocodile tears over Hamas BTW.
* Lehi is Israel's term for the Stern gang that blew up a Hotel in it's terrorist war to occupy Palestine.
Iraqi Parliamentarian Mithal al-Alusi, head of the Iraqi Nation Party in Baghdad, who advocates normalized relations between the new Iraq and Israel and promotes human rights in the Middle East. He says that, not surprisingly, the airwaves in Iraq are saturated with anti-Israel propaganda as Israel strikes back at Hamas for 3+ years of rocket attacks on Israel's southern towns. But interestingly, a significant number of Iraqis are not reflexively anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian, he says.
As Israel strikes back at Hamas, this champion of Iraqi-Israeli cooperation has been explaining to his fellow Iraqis, "the conflict is not between Palestinians and Israelis, it's between terrorists and moderates."
Alusi has made several trips to Israel to promote cooperation between Iraq and the Jewish state on counter-terrorism. In February, 2005, as revenge for Alusi's decision to break the longstanding taboo in the Arab world against visiting Israel, terrorists murdered his two sons, Ayman, 30, and Jamal, 22, who were helping their father build the Iraqi Nation Party, a political party dedicated to protecting human rights and promoting free markets and cooperation among democracies. But Alusi, an ideological pioneer in the middle east, refused to back down. He got his party, which his fallen sons had helped him establish, onto the ballot and in December, 2005 was elected to the Iraqi Parliament.
While Alusi notes he is grieved by war and hopes Israel's operations minimize casualties to Palestinian civilians, he believes Israel must devastate Hamas.
"We understand why this fight started, and if someone starts something, he has to finish," he says. He also referred to connections between some of the extremist religious political parties in Iraq and Hamas, all of whom he says receive funding from Iran, and all of whom are the enemies of free people who oppose terrorism and fanaticism.
Interesting eh? Or is Alusi just a Zionist shrill as well?
"promoting free markets"
Sounds more like a "Disaster Capitalist"* shill to me. Some people will sell out all their values for easy access to the crony capitalists big bucks:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050502/klein
*Also know as crony capitalism which is a similar state corporate hybrid to Mussolini's fascism.
snydly
Separation of State and Business = Separation of Church and State because in weatern state-capitalism, Business IS a Religion.
Your saying capitalism equals fascism? That makes a lot of logic....
Worked for Pinochet didn't it?
Capitalism plus government control of worker organizations, plus crony contracts, plus eliminating competition and domestic dissent does equal Mussolini's original 1920s formulation of fascism yes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Economic_nationalism
Excellent point find just one example where a tyrant abuses the system...
SO, lets look at all the successful socialist governments in the world...oh, oh dear...there hasn't been one!!
Successful Communist government no, successful socialist governments? Sweden is a prime example. As a polisci student I am going to assume you know better than to conflate democratic socialism and Communism so sadly I must conclude you are engaging in deliberate disinformation, either that or your proffs are damn poor at explaining socioeconomic systems to you.
You must not be listening well in class buddy,
In the mid '90s Sweden embraced deregulation and free trade globalization, is a world leader in privatized pensions, has no major state owned industries-in fact it has one of the highest percentages of private enterprises in the world. Sweden is a market economy. Has a rapidely declining corporate income tax code and the social democratic party is no longer the largest...
Sweden is a wonderful country and the per capital GDP is among the highest in the world but Sweden is more capitalist than socialist. The US mind has socialist programs of our own but don't mistake our economic theory....Darwinism rules both Sweden and the US.
My understanding is Sweden has an average 50% tax rate, free education through the university level, single payer healthcare, and generous subsidized housing for people that fall through the cracks so they don't have a large homeless problem like we do. You can quibble, hair split, and lawyer definitions of "socialism" to death as Zionists are want to do, but Sweden is enough socialist to be an antidote to the narcissistic sociopathy too common in the U.S. and I wish we were substantially more like Sweden here in the U.S.
And I haven't had any classes in 20 years bucko, and what's more with a public library, the internet and insatiable curiosity I don't need them
Hey, you wanna know how the internet you use came into existence...? It was a US military creation and it is being spread by capitalistic corporations...but your right capitalism does no good.
Sweden was turned right since the mid '90s when their heavy socialistic programs caused the economy to break, inflation to sky rocket and their bank to all nearly collapse. Every year they Socialist Democratic Party get fewer votes, the Unions are shrink..Capitalism is saving the country. Amazing how once Sweden started reducing their welfare rolls the economy started to come back...
Yes Sweden has tax payer funded college but you must qualify for admission...
See the US allows everybody to attend college but to be so inclusive it cannot be entirely paid for by the state where as other nations like Sweden offer free college education but have a limited number of seats...which do you prefer? Inclusive or Exclusive?
Don't lecture me on how the internet came into existence kid, I was e-mailing on VMS based VAX computers before your dads sperm even swam towards your moms ovaries. Guess what that government DARPA research that birthed the internet is socialism, so was the NASA space program that incubated the I.C. chips in your computer, so was the public highways those computers were transported on. Without a socialized infrastructure capitalism would be an epic fail of thousands of incompatible toll roads and insufficient basic research to advance and innovate. Capitalism piggy backs on and profits from public infrastructure, count on it.
No body would deny that although the Interstate Highway system was created for military defense purposes. Its called investing, if towns and cities don't build roads that connect to other towns and cities nobody would drive anywhere, tourism would be nonexistent, business would be only local, people would never meet other people...
I wouldn't call the military programs socialism, socialism seeks to shrink if not altogether do away with the military..certainly socialism does include the government spending billions of dollars paying private contractors to build rockets and space shuttles as in NASA's case.
The concept of linking roads was originally intended for railroads and that was paid for by private enterprise so again your reasoning is flawed...
Wanna try again?
It's military socialism ie the GOVERNMENT building roads originally on behalf of the military. It works quite well and ought to be extended to healthcare, the internet, phone, water, education, and power generation IMO. Combine that with free education and you start to look like Sweden or Norway, hmmmmmm.... The interesting writer Stan Goff an ex Marine says he converted to socialism after he noticed how much he liked his =military benefits and housing and realized that government ownership of housing and healthcare is gasp the very definition of socialism.
Meanwhile unregulated speculative capitalism is an epic fail because it always leads to some sort of unsustainable quasi pyramid scheme, in our current case it was things like unsecured ISVs which is like insurance with little capital back up for paybacks, and buying stocks "short" when you don't even own them (do a google search). In the late 20s it was buying stocks on the margin. Unregulated "Chicago School" capitalism is an epic fail to the tune of being bailed out by trillions we don't have, proably in the long run leading to an infaltionary run of the money printing presses, the very thing that doomed Weimar Germany. IMO the best economy is a mix of public infrastructure, a strong safety net to alleviate suffering and to ensure steady consistent demand to smooth out business cycles, locally owned owned private cooperatives for food, and yes a market for technology goods and services like cars and computers to spur innovation. IMO we have a lot to learn from the EU which not only is more humane than us but has had a more stable valuable currency than ours ever since Bush took over, hmmmm... You want to try again?
The word is "shill" and if the Zionist shill shoe fits, wear it!
Guys, only person who can possibly stop the land-grab Israel state of terror is Obama. Post your comments to the Obama transition team at the following address:
http://change.gov/ (main website)
http://change.gov/page/content/contact/ (page to provide comments)
Regards,
Good luck with that! With former IDF soldier Rahm Emmanuel as chief of staff, and Hilary "obliterate Iran" as Sec. of State. Sadly at this point I think appeals to Obomba are a waste of time. Better to petition and protest outside Israelis consulates and reps who support Israel for an end to the 6 billion per year America sends to Israel to fund Israel's crimes against humanity.
Obama: manlike god or godlike man.
I think it's fair to decry the violence on all sides. But can't we agree that Israel has a right to self-defense? After all, they tried a cease fire and Hamas repeatedly violated it.
Does it ever occur to you that perhaps Israel's government welcomes pinprick unguided small rockets hitting their territory as a small price to pay for land grabs and oppression of an entire society of millions of people?
Are you fucking serious? Or just completely ignorant?
Your of the position that rocket attacks are not forms of violence it take it...
ceasefire = good, war = bad
snydly
This is bad, but I think the climate crisis is still at the top of the heap of issues to deal with. That said, one must notice that this has been an ongoing dance with violence and war that is stuck in a terrible spot. If war could bring peace to this area, they would surely have it by now.
If Gandhi had not succeeded in India, it would be a stretch to suggest non-violent resistance to resolve their conflict, but, perhaps, that's what's needed.
Easy to say, hard to do.
Not to be flip about such a serious situation, but if the people could get a handle on their region, a lot of people would like to visit, while they could, to see the roots of their civilization.
Another point is that this will not be resolved from the top, down, but only by the people themselves---on both sides. The arms dealers and power brokers must be cut out of the mix...and not just in the middle-east.
It's all so stupid, you just cannot stamp out terrorism with more terrorism. The U.S. and Israel are so much alike, their leaders just blind with pride and arrogance. A democratic society must come to understand how power so corrupts the mind. It is what democracy is all about, to control abuse of power. Like sheep, do we want to follow such leaders to the destruction of our planet? This is why citizens must rise up and say no more! No more! No more! It is now up to the people in a democratic society to say no more!
"The U.S. and Israel are so much alike, their leaders just blind with pride, arrogance and GREED."
I corrected your post Stephen V. Riley, you're welcome.
Here's an update on the fate of the Dignity - the relief ship that sailed from Cyprus to Gaza with 3 tons of medical supplies - and former Green Party Presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney onboard.
Free Gaza ship attacked by Israeli Navy on return to Cyprus, diverts to Lebanon
- from Ma'an New Agency
[ http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=34389 ]
Thanks for the update. I'm happy to learn that no one on that ship got hurt.
In the future, instead of risking their lives, I would advise perhaps to use normal channels to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza. (such as UN relief agency UNRWA, or other recognized agencies.)
That may have the following advantages.
- The humanitarian aid will actually reach its destination.
- They will not have to risk their lives.
- No one will claim that the main goal of their trip was to create provocation.
"The humanitarian aid will actually reach its destination."
No it won't Israel blockades aid shipments leaving them to rot in warehouses on a regular basis.
.Except that Israel herself blocks the delivery of humanitarian aid, foodstuffs and medicines, and did so all through the last cease fire! Your lies are clumsy and your defense of Israelis imperialism is loathsome.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
An international aid boat carrying a consignment of medical supplies to the Gaza Strip has been reportedly rammed by an Israeli patrol vessel.
An Israeli patrol vessel rammed a boat of Palestinian activists carrying a shipment of medical aid that tried to break the blockade of the Gaza Strip, Israeli military radio said Tuesday, AFP reported.
The radio station further added that an Israeli vessel fired warning shots at the boat 'The Dignity' ...
How will FauxNews spin this?
What has Bush/Obama sent to ease this massacre? I know what Iran is sending. Will the Pentagram and the ZioNazis shoot them down?
Iran Sends Aid Planes to Gaza
TEHRAN (FNA)- Iran's Red Crescent Society has sent cargo planes filled with 50 tons of relief assistance to Egypt to be sent on to Gaza.
Iran sent most of the longer range rockets that the Hamas is using to carry out war crimes against civilians.
I would hardly call that "Humanitarian aid"
Spring of 1967, sitting in high school history class, bored, listening to a miserable old man try to inform us of the events of the day. About all I can remember of that year was cheering when we heard that the scrappy little nation of Israel had just single-handedly kicked the butts of those brutish Arabs who had them surrounded. I always had an affinity for underdogs and an aversion to brutes and thugs. It didn't matter to me what religion or political affiliation was attached to the victims or the perpetrators of suppression and cruelty, it seemed irrelevant. It was the behavior that mattered.
But maybe I was naive. Maybe there really were religious, racial, political reasons for war, violence, and cruel revenge. I guess in my attempts to understand human nature I was drawn to study psychology, philosophy, the sciences and numerous religions; but despite many years of study and meditative practice, I still don't get it.
Yet I continue to support and cheer on the underdogs, the victims, the innocent, and loath and condemn the perpetrators of cruelty and death.
Wiser, maybe, but I still don't get it, I wonder if I ever will.
Rebelnow, I'm with you 100%.
And I am struggling VERY hard within myself
to control my anger at -- and sometimes even
hatred of -- whoever the perceived bullies are!
Because I've realized that the anger and
hatred hurt only me!
rosie2731
From an editorial published today and written by Israeli jazz musician, author and political activist, Gilad Atzmon:
In order to grasp the latest devastating murderous Israeli expedition in Gaza one must deeply comprehend the Israeli identity and its inherent hatred towards anyone who fails to be Jewish and a hatred against Arabs in particular. This hatred is imbued in the Israeli curriculum, it is preached by political leaders and implied by their acts, it is conveyed by cultural figures, even within the so-called ‘Israeli Left.’
I grew up in Israel in the 1970s; people of my generation are nowadays the leaders of the Israeli army, politics, economy, academia and the arts. We were trained to believe that ‘a good Arab is a dead one.’ A few weeks before I joined the IDF in the early 1980s, General Rafael Eitan, the chief of staff at the time announced that the “Arabs were stoned cockroaches in a bottle.” He got away with it; he also got away with the murder of many thousands of Lebanese civilians in the 1st Lebanon war. In a word, Israelis manage to get away with murder.
Luckily enough, and for reasons that are still far beyond my comprehension, at a certain stage I woke up out of that Hebraic lethal dream. At one point I left the Jewish state, I evaded the Jewish hate mongering, I had become an opponent of the Jewish state and any other form of Jewish politics. However, I am utterly convinced that it is my primary duty to inform every being that is willing to listen about that which we are up against.
As much as Zionism was there to transform Jews, and by “giving them a State of their own,” make them like any other people, it failed miserably. The Israeli barbarism as we have seen this week and too many times before is far beyond bestiality. It is killing for the sake of killing. And it is indiscriminate . . . .
For the rest of this editorial:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4177.shtml
Gilad Atzmon is not the only former Israeli soldier who wishes to speak out against the longstanding brutality of the occupation:
Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo&feature=related
Former Israeli Air Force Captain, Yonatan Shapira:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lUDACBj9P0
Two former Israeli soldiers, Dotan Greenvald and Yehuda Shaul, speak about their experiences serving the Israeli occupation in the West Bank.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3781959615827810185
Very sane. Thank you.
You're very welcome.
"Israeli Air Force shells the Islamic University in Gaza",
by Saed Bannoura, IMEMC.org, Dec 28 2008
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50024
I'll quote the whole article given it's short enough.
Quote:
The Israeli army continued its military offensive against the Gaza Strip and shelled on Sunday at night buildings that belong to the Islamic University in Gaza City.
Kamaleen Shaath, Head of the Islamic University in Gaza said that the Israeli army does not hesitate in hitting any target in Gaza as the army shelled a mosque, hospital and several civilian facilities.
The Qatar-based AL Jazeera Satellite news channel reported said that several buildings were shelled in the university including a residency for female students.
Waleed AL Mudallal, one of the lecturers at the Islamic University, said in a phone interview with Al Jazeera that the university decided yesterday to announce a three –day mourning in protest to the Israeli military crimes.
Al Mudallal added that the carried previously repeated Israeli strikes that targeted the university, including an air strike that was carried out two years ago and caused extensive damage but this damage is considered small comparing to the damage that resulted in today’s air strike.
Dr. Nihad Al Sheikh Khalil, another lecturer at the University, said that the army shells universities, mosques and other civilian facilities and then claims "victory".
He added that the army does not hesitate in shelling any civilian target as the army also shelled residential towers in Gaza on Saturday.
Local sources did not report casualties in the shelling that targeted the university as it was evacuated on Saturday.
The army fired several missiles at facilities belonging to the University. The Israeli Air Force also carried two further air strikes that targeted Gaza City on Sunday at night.
End quote.
Two laboratories in the university, which served as research and development centers for Hamas's military wing, were targeted. The development of explosives was done under the auspices of university professors.
University buildings were also used for meetings of senior Hamas officials.
The IDF said rockets and explosives were stored in the buildings.
BBC News describes the university as a "cultural symbol of Hamas" and says that the university was "evacuated days in advance"
-----
I call all the Hamas forces to stop using civilians as human shield. Redeploy to isolated bases away from any school, hospital or residential houses. This will reduce the risk of civilian casualties.
So universities doing weapons research are legitimate military targets? Do you really want to go that way letto considering most major universities in the U.S. like U.C. Berkley and University of Michigan do weapons research on behalf of the U.S. government which has engaged in the war crimes of torture and illegal war of aggression not sanctioned by the U.N. against Iraq? I think you might want to retract that statement and reconsider it's implications.
I say let them bomb Berkley, U of M and everyone..at least let them try...
If you are at war then yes you may bomb any and all weapon research and development sites you like..you are at war!!
The IDF has a duty to bomb all rocket factories and labs and any site that works on missile designing. Hamas can likewise bomb all the military bases in Israel they like...i'll even say they have reason ti bomb some US military research centers...but they need to know that if they were to drop a few bombs in the US Israel's actions this past week will pail in comparison to what we would unleash on Hamas.
"I say let them bomb Berkley, U of M and everyone."
Considering I live within 6 miles of Ann Arbor the location of U of M and have many friends who work there, that is as offensive to me as my dabbling in the thought of Iran with the bomb must have been to you, again I think you ought to reconsider this position of universities that conduct weapons research as legitimate military targets.
Does your university or college do weapons research or receive money from the military?
And BTW my position as a Green party supporter is that universities ought not to do military research and I have supported Green party candidates to the board of Regents to try to bring that about. Nonetheless until that happy day happens I think considering universities, hospitals, and places of worship as legitimate military targets is disgusting and speaks poorly to the integrity of Israel's military leadership. It is disingenuous in the extreme to whine about a few Hamas quite literally random rockets when Israel is deliberately targeting schools, hospitals, and Mosques with heavy duty precsion guided bombs.
I say that if the US were at war with nation X then that country would have a legitimate right to bomb any facility that contributes to the armed forces...If a research lab at U of M is contracted by the military for R & D work on weapons then they are a fair target...the building that is being used not the entire city of Ann Arbor. If you don't like that then don't work for a military contractor which is what many large universities have become.
If you think dropping a bomb on a schools weapons research lab is tantamount to using nuclear weapons on a nation then you sir need to go back to school and learn a little bit about proportionality.
I attend a liberal arts college not a mega university so there isn't a program at least that i'm aware of at my school.
It is disingenuous to refer to the missile attacks by Hamas as "a few," a few hundred were launched this week alone and over 5,000 for the year! Your claiming that Israel is at fault here when it is Hamas that is targeting schools, hospitals, and malls!!
Israel doesn't target hospitals and to say so is a boldfaced lie. Mosques lose their protected status, according to international law, once they become a weapons armory and it has been repeatedly proven that Hamas likes to store its' missiles in Mosques.
The schools Israel has attacked are schools that Hamas uses to fire missiles at Isreal...there is ample video to prove this.
Hamas isn't "targeting" anyone their missiles are unguided and essentially random and have caused 6 deths in several years, unlike Israel precision guided bombs that have hit schools, Mosques, and yes Hospitals, I'll have to to find the article but I distinctly remeber reading and seeing photos yesterday of a bombed Hospital and Drs and nurses collecting bodies from their own parking lot.
Peace will come to the middle east when the last zionist is shot down dead in the street like a mad dog. Who creates anti-semitism? zionists! that's who.
Remember the anti-semite is the best friend of a zionist, they work well together.
One day the Jews will regain their government, sanity will return, and Jews and Muslims will once again live peacefully with each other as they did until the fucking hate filled zionists arrived.
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
White Rose: "Peace will come to the middle east when the last zionist is shot down dead in the street like a mad dog. Who creates anti-semitism? zionists! that's who."
Wow. Do you realize you have just called for the extermination of 11 million people (including me)? Possibly many many more, if including non-Jewish Zionists.
Up until now, the most racist comment I heard in CD was a call to exterminate only 6.1 million people (All the Jews who lives in Israel) Your Genocidal aspiration goes far and beyond.
In a few lines you described yourself as both mass murderer wanabie, an anti-semite, and an ignorant.
------
In case you were wondering why ignorant:
1. Zionism didn't created anti-semitism.
The first Zionist congress happened in 1897
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
The word antisemitic was probably first use in 1860
Documented anti-semitism existed since the 3rd century BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism
2.Wars in the middle east existed for thousands of years, unrelated to Zionism.
In the past 30 years you can count:
Morocco's occupation of Spanish Sahara.
Civil war in Algiers.
Civil war in Lebanon.
Muslim brother revolt in Syria.
Muslim brother revolt in Egypt.
War in Yemen.
Iran - Iraq war.
Sudan - Civil war and Genocide.
Kurdish revolt in Turkey and Iraq.
Iraq war.
Gulf war.
Civil war within the Palestinian authority (Fatah Vs. Hamas).
And more.....
It is somewhat naive to speculate that exterminating millions of Zionist Jews and non-Jews will end all middle eastern wars.
.It is sad that this important topic brings out haters like her who think peace can be achieved with a little more violence, as , in fact, do you yourself. Reading her post must be like looking in a mirror, huh?
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
just so you all are aware....
it is the anticipation of and appearance of mass protests, civil disobedience.,....etc....that the PENTAGON has alreayd been preparing for to install martial law....by calling if of course as "law and order".....
there are already internal memos preparing for this....as i long suspected would come to...
to be sure -- the bywords will be:
"civil unrest" must be put under control as a "threat to our nation"...whether it's about economy, or wars, or security, or against spying, "protesting AGAINST israel",,,,and OF COURSE even protesting about "changing the economy"....or EVEN merely suggesting ANY ALTERNATIVE to capitalism and corporatism and militarism....these things - i guarantee are NOT going to be tolerated...and all the other things that americans are waking up to have ALREADY been going on...
i have no idea what americans will do - or can do.
=============
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Report_Military_may_have_to_quell_1229.html
Report: Military may have to quell domestic violence from economic collapse
RAW STORY
Published: Monday December 29, 2008
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Deepening economic strife in the US could lead to civil unrest and violence that would require military intervention, warns a new report from the US Army War College.
"Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security," writes Nathan Freier, a 20-year Army veteran and visiting professor at the college.
A copy of the 44-page report, "Known Unknowns: Unconventional 'Strategic Shocks' in Defense Strategy Development," can be downloaded here. Freier notes that his report expresses only his own views and does not represent US policy, but it's certain that his recommendations have come before at least some Defense Department officials.
The author warns potential causes for such civil unrest could include another terrorist attack, "unforeseen economic collapse, loss of functioning political and legal order, purposeful domestic resistance or insurgency, pervasive public health emergencies, and catastrophic natural and human disasters." The situation could deteriorate to the point where military intervention was required, he argues.
"Under these conditions and at their most violent extreme," he concludes, "civilian authorities, on advice of the defense establishment, would need to rapidly determine the parameters defining the legitimate use of military force inside the United States."
While the scenario presented is "likely not an immediate prospect," Freier concedes, it deserves consideration. Prior to 9/11, no one in the defense establishment would have envisioned a plot to topple skyscrapers with airliners, and the military should not be caught so off-guard again, he says.
To the extent events like this involve organized violence against local, state, and national authorities and exceed the capacity of the former two to restore public order and protect vulnerable populations, DoD would be required to fill the gap," he writes. "This is largely uncharted strategic territory."
Freier's report has merited some concern as it comes alongside revelations that the Defense Department has assigned a full-time Army unit to be on-call for domestic deployment.
(the rest just click on the link)
i am more and more convinced that the USA will -- soon enough -- become an openly Fascist, Police/military corporate state...aided, sanctioned by the "congress", president, etc...
this is because it has become mired - after a long path - in the conditions, the situations :economic crises, wars, consequences of imperial interfering , etc...social unrest resulting from this -- which are ALL the VERY conditions that a Military STate needs to announce itself as "being necessary for security"....and pointing to "domestic crises" and "threats" including any americans that dare oppose the official preferences.
"DEMOCRACY EVENTUALLY ARRIVES AT TYRANNY..through the accumulation of power in the hands of a few" - Benjamin Franklin
"THE USA WILL ONE DAY BE A FASCIST STATE....only they'll call it a democracy" - Huey Long
"SECURITY of the People has ever been the justification of Tyrants"......i forget which philosopher said that.
"SHOULD Tyranny arrive in these shores, it will be in the Guise of Securing the Safety of the People" --- James Madison
===========
and if people take a good look at the history of the USA and its arrival to the present:
realize that the USA , for being a capitalist country , has ALWAYS had a leaning to the RIGHT wing mentality : AUTHORITARIANISM....expressed most in its corporatism ....with all of capitalism's and corporatism's consequences leading to wars, social unrest , instability, economic ruin -- ALL Of them CONDITIONS for OPENLY authoritarian rightwing Rule.
one might even say -- it was DESTINED to become a quasi-fascist state , as a result of its inherently RIGHTWING culture , politics and above all..economics..
one might even say -- the combination of ultra-corporate control , ideology, culture, politics , militarism , imperialism, phases of crises after crises - were all designed, subconsciously or not, to ARRIVE -- at Tyranny by Military Power functioning as the "preserver" of what is inherently a RIGHTWING country.
After reading many of the comments,it struck me how many people making the comments are as divided as Israel and the Palestinians. I would hope some diplomatic overtures by countries not involved would be forthcoming to broker an immediate ceasefire. Placing blame will not bring peace. Sitting at the table and looking for solutions from both sides will at least be a start towards peace.
post your comments to the Obama transition team at the following address:
http://change.gov/ (main website)
http://change.gov/page/content/contact/ (page to provide comments)
He talks about change, lets hope for a change in this direction as well.
Regards,
Paul Siemering
A holocaust survivor named Dr. Schlomo Schmelzman wrote a letter to the Israeli press a long time ago, but his thoughts are timeless:
"In my childhood I have suffered fear, hunger and humiliation when I passed through the Warsaw Ghetto, through the labor camps, to Buchenwald. Today, as a citizen of Israel, I cannot accept the systematic destruction of cities, towns and refugee camps. I cannot accept the technocratic cruelty if the bombing...I hear familiar sounds today...I hear "dirty Arabs' and I remember 'dirty Jews'. I hear about 'closed areas' and I remember ghettos and camps. I hear 'two legged beasts' and I remember 'Untermenschen' ('subhumans')...Too many things in Israel remind me of too many things..."
you could help here
http://english.pnn.ps/
( from John Pilger "Freedom Next Time")
There will never be any resolution to this conflict until the last Zionist and the last militant Palestinian is dead. The Jews won't leave Israel, the Palestinians won't leave, and neither will grant concessions that the other will agree to. So they'll keep fighting and killing each other, and very likely push the violence to such an extreme that other countries will be forced to step in and actively participate. Such as the US coming to the aid of Israel with air strikes and even Boots on the Ground; then possibly Iran stepping in to aid the Palestinians. Next stop, nuclear weapons threats or realities between the US & Israel and whomever they decide needs learning the hard way what these two belligerent, self-righteous countries are all about. All so Israel can have its sacred holy land, like the ancient Biblical prophets and writings promised. And so the idiot American Christian fundamentalists can rest easy that Jesus will be coming soon to take them into heaven because the Jews will be occupying Israel, one of the conditions that must obtain according to official Armageddon-ology. Thus do we follow the Word of God right into hell. Isn't religion wonderful?
Ephraim,
I can only surmise that you are a Jew and a Zionist who doesn't know MUCH !!
How do Jews or ANYONE think that occupation is OK FOR OVER 60 YEARS ?????
You say "Jews won't leave Israel" Which Israel ?? Jews/Israel has never made a border !!
There is a Geneva Convention and a United Nations for most of the World's problems --- but NO --- Israel and the USA insist in being outside these "International Courts of Justice" !!!!!!
Its illegal OCCUPATION any way you slice it !!!!!! Israel is/has illegally occupied Palestinian lands with the help of the USA --- Simple ----END OF STORY ----
Be a good Jew and help stop the madness ---join the effort to confront your perception and every Jew everywhere with truth and this logic !!
Forget about antisemitism and the Hollywood Holocaust code of silence !!!!
See this link below -- incredible Auschwitz Revelations by a brave Jew.
http://hidhist.wordpress.com/holocaust/david-cole-incredible-auschwitz-revelations/
Now to the simple logic of it all !!!!!
Jews consists of 0.02% of the World's population.
Islam consists of 23% of the World's population.
How do Jews or ANYONE think that 0.02% of the World's population killing 23% of the World's population at will is acceptable ?
There are only 14 Million Jews in the World and yet they are causing so much misery ---- WHY ??
Jews via their "Poster Child" Israel are pushing a "PERPETUAL" war--on Islam by the USA for the benefit of Israel !!
"Shock and Awe" the neocon US Pentagon response in Iraq = neocon Israel the "other" Super Power's response in Gaza!!!
It was the same in 2006 when Israel was given a clear hand to destroy Lebanon with cluster bombs & Depleted Uranium !!!
Gaza is a place where people are reduced to eating grass to survive and an unfinished part of the larger Jewish/Israeli Agenda !!!
Israel with 250 NUKES the 4th strongest Military in the World created by the USA is just "completely" out of control!!
Israeli agenda seems to include-- 1.US extended stay in Iraq 2. Attack on Iran ASAP. 3.Possible attack on Pakistan. 4."Transfer" all remaining Palestinian people out of Palestine. 5. REVENGE on the World and Israel's rightful acceptance as a World Superpower.!!
Some 65 UN resolutions condemning Israeli actions against Palestinians have been defied by Tel Aviv & the US.
The Geneva Convention -- broken all the time -- Israel/American regimes could care less -------!!!!!
Americans are fed their Israeli/American P.R. from CNN & Fox TV like with the Iraq WMD's and Zionist propaganda to invade Iraq.
Israel is/was out of control for years and years and has "raped and killed and pillaged"ever since its creation in 1948!!
Israel with 250 NUKES the 4th strongest Military in the World created by the USA is out of control in the middle of a sea of Islam.
http://wake-up-america.net/
Are Americans STILL that dumb that they can still wonder ---- "Why do they hate us" ??
Jews must awake ASAP to knowing that Zionism is the real enemy of the Jews !!!
http://zionism-realenemyofthejews.com/
Does any sane person doubt that the only clear beneficiary of the AMERICAN war agenda is Israel.
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/2411.htm
G.W.Bush calls it a Crusade. A Judeo/Christion Crusade against 23% of the World's population who "adhere" to Islam.
http://petras.lahaine.org
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm
HELP WANTED PLEASE -- the World may be counting on you ---- yes you !!!!!!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
the massacre was planned years ago
the israelis were shelling and bombing gaza as deliberate provocations for years
the israeli theocracy , hand in hand with the military idustrial complex offers all non-jews in palestine either flight or death
the wackos who want an all jewish greater israel have come to the political fore and are implementing their genocidal plans
they are just tools of the warmongers
and the war mongers are us
the planes and tanks are paid for by our taxes ,
same shit different day
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Gaza is of course part of the larger Israeli Plan !!!
There are only 14 Million Jews in the World and yet they are causing so much misery !!!
Its simple Israel is pushing for PERPETUAL war--perpetual war on Islam by the USA for the benefit of Israel !!
"Shock and Awe" was the the neocon US Pentagon response --- and so Israel the "other" Super Power have done likewise !!!!
There was no difference when in 2006 Israel was given a clear hand to destroy Lebanon with cluster bombs & Depleted Uranium !!!
Israeli agenda to include ---- 1. US extended stay in Iraq !!!! 2. Attack on Iran !!!!!! 3.Possible attack on Pakistan !! 4."Transfer" all what is left of the Palestinian people out of Palestine !!! 5. REVENGE !!!!!!!!! and Israel's "rightful" place as a World Superpower !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some 65 UN resolutions condemning Israeli actions against Palestinians have been defied by Tel Aviv & the US.
The Geneva Convention -- broken all the time -- Israel/American regimes could care less -------!!!!!
Meanwhile Americans get their Israeli/American P.R. from CNN & Fox TV just like the Iraq WMD's total Zionist propaganda !!!!
Wake up World !!!!---Israel is the Nuclear monster created by the USA that is an uncontrollable power in the middle of a sea of Islam.
Israel is/was out of control it has "raped & killed & pillaged ever since its creation !!
http://wake-up-america.net/
Are Americans STILL that dumb that they can still wonder ---- "Why do they hate us" ?
Jews must awake ASAP to knowing that Zionism is the real enemy of the Jews !!!
http://zionism-realenemyofthejews.com/
Does any sane person doubt that the only clear beneficiary of the AMERICAN war agenda is Israel.
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/2411.htm
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/2411.htm
G.W.Bush calles it a Crusade. A Judeo/Christion Crusade against 23% of the World's population who "adhere" to Islam.
http://petras.lahaine.org
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm
"I can only surmise that you are a Jew and a Zionist who doesn't know MUCH !!"
How you can possibly come to that idiotic conclusion from what I said may shed some light on how no one hears anyone else anymore, on ANY of these inflammatory issues. No, I'm neither Jewish nor Zionist, and in fact I've sympathized with the Palestinians' cause for 30 years!!!! If we must use exclamation points to make ourselves heard!!!!!
Look, Harvey, I KNOW Israel has illegally occupied that territory for 60 years, and I don't defend it!!!! Please remove your head from your ass and recognize at least when someone is in agreement with you. It's a sad state of affairs when we've reached this dismal level, that even one's allies are taken to be enemies. If all you have to bring to the discussion is unbridled hysteria, you aren't going to be of much help. Hysteria has fed this conflict for 60 years, and it's consuming the entire world.
I think Israel should accept the rights of the Palestinians, but Israel doesn't give a damn what I think. That's why I said they aren't going to leave, but neither are their sworn enemies. They'll rip at each other's throats until no one is left standing. I can't stop the madness and neither can you with all your ranting and raving!!!!!
Actually there is little chance of this happening, The US and Isreal have the resources to vaporize every Palestinian and Persian. This desire to find some kind of even symmetry between US/Israel and Palestine is very wrong thinking.
I recall similar thinking regarding Central America (and current day Colombia). Powerful wealthy thugs murder desperately poor workers who only want to organize a union, and US elites tell then "can't you get along"?
The facts are for anyone with two eyes wide open, that there is an oppressor and an oppressed. Israelis robbed many, many thousands of Palestinians of their land and homes. There is not a single case of a Palestinian robbing an Israeli of their home, shop or farm. Who is robbing whom??? Who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed for fucking crying out loud??? Jesus fucking Christ, this isn't rocket science!
PLEASE FUCKING THINK!
---USAn---
Excellent post PJD. Israel's crocodile tears over half a dozen deaths from crude Hamas rockets are just an excuse to rob land from millions of Palestinians.
While no civilized nation wants to see the death and destruction that is occurring, we need to remember that Israel has been patient with the terrorist attacks on its civilians by the Arab settlers; the “Palestinians.” Note, Israel is attacking military targets; the Palestinian security forces. Of course there is collateral damage as there always is in war. But, remember that the Palestinians bring their terrorist attacks upon civilians. That is a huge difference. Second, the Palestinians have absolutely no historical claim to any of the lands they currently occupy. I have never seen any reliable historical account that even suggests any “Palestinian” connection to the regions known as Judea and Samaria; today known as Israel. The Palestinian people are not indigenous to Judea and Samaria. Rather, the Palestinian people are Arab settlers, less than 100 years ago, from Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. Thus, the obvious solution is to return these Arab settlers to their former lands in those Arab countries. Of course, we know that Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia do not want “Palestinian” people notwithstanding their “support” for the Palestinian struggle against Israel. The solution thus would seem that Israel is stuck with these Arab settlers and must allow for their co-existence provided; however, the Palestinians renounce all terror and agree to live peacefully within Israel. And, the lands of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank must be returned to Israel with the proviso that the Arab settlers living within may remain if they are peaceful and obey Israeli law.
How blatant can Israel's hypocrisy get? you ask the Palestinians to police themselves and then target the police stations, utter and complete madness. if you wonder why no one believes the Zionist's lie and distortions spkatz57 it's these sort of glaringly obvious contradictions.
"And, the lands of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank must be returned to Israel with the proviso that the Arab settlers living within may remain if they are peaceful and obey Israeli law."
Ah ha a "greater Israel" nutcase, never mind U.N. resolution 242 that requires Israel to retreat to the green line, god chosen people just get to ignore international law, right? Here is clue for you buddy, your god doesn't exist, no god does, and religion is just an excuse to steal land that isn't yours to begin with. I'd be interested to know if letto and steelgray the other Zionists posting here on the same page with this "greater israel" extremists who is openly advocating for transfer and annexation of even more land for illegal settlements? if you disagree with spkatz57 please make it known in this public forum, if you choose to remain silent I will be forced to contend that you are all extremists advocating for transfer and a "greater israel."
Sorry, i missed this one i didn't mean to keep you waiting for my rebuttal...
Those police stations are maned by Hamas, the Hamas which announced that it had merged its terrorist militant fighters into its police forces...when Israel blows up a Hamas police station Israel is really blowing up a militant station. Further, seeing how Hamas has been arbitrarily arresting members of the Fatah party one could make the case that Israel is striking Hamas 'police' stations to protect the civil rights of the Palestinian civilians....ouch.
Here's a lesson for you buddy, don't tell people what they can and cannot have faith in...it's extremely narricistic to think that you know better than a great majority of the world on an issue that can be truly proved either way...is there a God or isn't there..we created a word to address this age old question...its called FAITH. Some have it and some don't regardless of what side you fall on don't go around telling people what they can and cannot believe in.
Speaking logically now, seeing how if there is no God and when we die nothing happens then whether or not you have faith matters not however if there is a God and believing in him/her affects what happens to you in the after life then it matters a great deal. So the prudent thing would be to have faith for nothing bad can come of it but rather only good-possibly. That being said it is your choice and unlike you i will never tell you what you have to believe.
Having "faith" DOES have consequences like your own ultra extremist Zionist nutcase who believe a "greater Israel" has been granted to them by the bible leading to the disgusting idea of "transfer" and Israel annexing even more land for "settlers (colonists). Another example are the Christian Zionists who support your cause NOW but in their delusional scenario if you don't convert to their religion of Chistianity then Jews are condemned to hell in the "end times", an even greater Holocaust in their fantasy than Hitlers. Some friends, eh? Maybe you start to see why I think religion is a dangerous delusion and not just merely harmless?
Time to ditch the absurd and dangerous hallucinations of unstable nutcases who fasted too long in the desert. I highly recommend you read Richard Dawkin's "God Delusion" in which he solidly refutes any possible reason for being religious or "spiritual." Then follow that up with Bill Mahr's Religilous at the very end of which he shows that end time delusions by the major monotheistic religions may make Armageddon a self fulfilling prophecy due to all too human stupidity and weakness. Preventing a stupid mega Holocaust over a few hundred square miles of shitty infertile land in the middle east is very much worth doing, and worth abandoning outdated logically unjustified beliefs for. If people of the middle east are really too insane to see this then I want NO part of the region, no funding of any of their militaries, and energy independence ASAP. A pox on religious lunatics IMO.
While you have a first amendment right as an American to believe any delusional thing you want to believe I also have the right to call you on your delusion and point out that all the so called questions posited by monotheistic religions can be solved by evolution, cosmology, ethics, and art and that IMO religion is unnecessary, futile, and dangerous pursuit that might quite literally lead to massive nuclear war.
Seeing no counter response from letto or steelgray am I to assume that you too support the extremist position of transfer and a "greater Israel?" I disagree with both of you vehemently but I thought you were better than that... Disappointed to say the least.
You don't study history do you...
Read about the Arab riots the occurred before Israeli was founded. In those stories you'll even learn where the IDF came from.
Little chance of what happening? Please fucking make sense! I'm fully cognizant of the fact that this is a lopsided affair and always has been, that Israel is the oppressor, the occupier, and the US has fully supported that arrangement for 50+ years. I'm not saying "can't you just get along," that's you misinterpreting what I said, for which I can't be responsible. And I wasn't born yesterday, so I'm also aware that the US and Israel can vaporize their enemies whenever they choose. Sorry you didn't understand what I was saying. Get down off your know-it-all horse and try recognizing that others understand the situation as well as you do.
.Gee, an entire thread without the comments of our two Israeli apologists letto and steelgrey..I guess the Israeli civil service gave them some off time....
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We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
I apologize for being late.
I had to stop at the bank with a court order, to block your Iranian laundry account.
Sorry.
.To bad you didn't get hit by a bus on the way, it would have better served the cause of truth here.
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We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
How progressive of you, you like to wish death on someone simply b/c they have a different political belief than you...It's a good thing the hard left will never come to power in the US...the world will be save...
.Damn, never a bus when you really need one!
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We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Sorry to interrupt.
And you know why those damn Palestinians needed to be bombed?
Because they have ... tunnels! God damn son-of-a-bitch holes in the ground! Tunnels!!!
How dare they!