On Iraq: The People Have Spoken

There is plenty of Natonl seurity , its called the Bush Nation wide spy network. All are politicians a scared shitless, this evil machine is truley in control.Everyone must tred lightly, let this network self distruct.

And it will, becuase they will turn on each other in pursuit of greed and power.

Get real Bruhns. The American financial meltdown and massive and continuing bailout of corporate America by printing money will destroy the next president just as it destroyed Jimmy Carter's Presidency. Do you remember Paul Volker at the Fed who raised interest rates to 22.5% and kept them there for fifteen months. People cheered when the rate dropped to 18% and then to 15%. Obama's Presidency is already in ruins. The Corporatists are seeing to that right now. That is why they are all smiling while the print massive sums of money and bail themselves out. The Dims are dull bulbs. They are so used to bending over they no longer know how to stand up straight. The last man standing will likely be a Republican.

NPR station WHYY in Philly played some interviews with folks from Altoona, PA this morning. For them, the war is off center stage. The republicans say maybe they don't like the war and McCain's 100 year remark, but they plan on voting for him anyway. The dems are voting for Clinton in the primary because she is a "known quantity".

They don't seem to have any understanding of what problems the war and the other arrogant and reckless decisions of this administration have caused. One woman even said she was considering not voting because the three candidates have no differences on the issues she considers important. Obviously the war isn't one of them.

No one wants to vote for "the lesser of two evils", but they don't realize the neocons really are evil. Evil isn't a metaphor this time. Its a reality.

The Rev. Wright is pretty much, right! That Obama was cowed in to repudiating this man's views is a testimony to the control MSM and Fox News have in setting the talking points in this country. Nothing of the kind happened with respect to McCain (there will be a draft, your children will serve). Meanwhile, our drug adled middle class uses their Saturday morning to run to drug stores to stock up on more anti depresants. Google Wrights sermons. Be your own judge of this man's perfidious comments. And if his summary of US foreign policy is offensive, then, more or less, you support terrorism. But what was Obama to do?
McCain gets a free pass with Hagee et al.
This election is about racism and its' legacy. It's about corporate control of memes. It's about who gets to propose candidates for the highest office of this country. Obama slipped through the corporate filter. Clinton begat Bush. Bush may well have begat Obama. But who's Obama? I'm hoping Obama has internalized the best, not the worst, of the Rev. Wright.

Unfortunately for us, many (most?) of the Western tyrants in past 150 years were dislodged from the outside, rather from the inside. That is, it sometimes takes losing a bloody war -- in der Vaterland (...er...I mean Homeland), for the entire culture to literally have its face rubbed in its OWN death and decay that it ordinarily exports abroad, for it to begin turning around. This was the case for Germany and Japan anyway.

It's possible to have a non-tyrannical government which is basically just organized crime (modern Russia and perhaps the USA?), but not called as such. Lobbyists, corporate media, campaign donations, etc. Our chief stumbling block may be primarily linguistic at this point: it walks and quacks like a duck but we call it democracy insead.

People are simple. Ask them a weighty question and they will change the subject. They will not be goaded into thinking in complex ways. It may be that their maturation process stopped at the half way mark. I don't know! It seems that way though. Yet, if we listen, there is a different kind of wisdom in those simple voices. Somehow, later rather than sooner, they come up with the right answer. They seem to have a simpler guidance system that requires something other than nuanced stimuli to get them on track. It's not a 2X4 across the head. It an unmistakable signal that in some final way crystalizes their thinking and motivates them to action. It's a tipping point of sorts. Strangely we are not there yet.

Funny, not wishing to impeach Bush & Cheney or bringing Feith, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld & co to an accountablity tribunal, Nancy Pelosi thinks she can browbeat China from the Indian side of the Himalayas. Lost her marbles.

America is a nation of idiots. I swear to whatever gods there may be that my countrymen are the most polluting, useless creatures on the planet and that includes cockroaches. Cockroaches can at least turn a compost pile into chicken feed.

The fact that the very same people who got all excited and voted for a Democratic Congress only to be betrayed by them is still getting all hoo-rah for these two pretty pathetic Dem. Presidential candidates is boggling. Faced with the combined crisis of Peak Oil, the Iraq War, Global Warming, health care collapse and financial collapse they are offering us more of the same coated with a can of green spraypaint.

More war, more corrupt health insurance companies, more car dependency, more coal burning, more crappy mortgages, and probably more homeless people. NO solutions on the table at all.

The only solution to the stupidity of the american people is their complete prostration.

I apologize. I wouldn't have ranted earlier if I would have noticed then that the main writer was with United for Peace and Justice; or I would have shortened it greatly to: "please daddy, spank me more so I know how much you love me."

"President Bush thought this would be easily accomplished by demonstrating a three week conquering of Iraq where we would be greeted as liberators. Too bad it backfired..."

For God's sake wake up! There was no back fire!

All's going according to plan: They are the masters of the "string along lie": and now we're being strung along to further escalation of war and world depression.

And The People are too blame as much as anyone else. We are "dumb as shit", maybe not intellectually but assuredly emotionally. We run around like chickens with our heads cut off: spewing venom at Bush/Cheney and the media, while campaigning for Billary, I'llbombyatoo or I'llMcBombYouMoreThanAnyone.

No, We're dumber than shit. Stick our necks out for our neighbors?! Bushit! We won't stick our hands out for love and affection.

Good - bring on more nuclear catastrophe and world depression. Maybe when we've finally learned to sit like shit and in our nakedness we will once again recognize our humanity.

I would go with COmarc and call for the good fight; you know: clear the table for everything BUT impeachment, but, no, for the time being I'll wallow in shit - it's both smarter and warmer then The People.

The only good American is a dead American...

We need every vote- the green party should endorse Obama and we all would endorse the Green party and be forever grateful.

The people? We don' need no stinkin peeple...

"When asked to comment on a recent poll showing that most Americans say the Iraq war is not worth it, Cheney responded with "so?"

"You don't care what the American people think?" the TV host asked.

"No," Cheney answered.

Bush is had he knows he's had. His time will come. All can see it any time on the camera.

I'm always skeptical about those who compare today's Rep Democracy to totalitarianism of WW2 vintage (flashback to Frankfurt School in America). Yes, there are similarities between Ameican Rep Democ and totalitarianism, but also important differences (a nod to Hannah Arendt). So,I would prefer a new definition: plutocracy or corpocracy which incorporates the complexity of present politics.

Interesting article and thoughtful comments.

In the article they said the money spent on Iraq could have been better spent. This gets my vote for understatement of the year. The money could have been better spent buying horse used oats.

ezeflyer: AMEN!

The dems are complicit. Impeachment is off the table? Bush is the worst of all, a war criminal. Well, my vote for the dems is also off the table.

Mission Accomplished, look at the record profits of the Oil Companies. lt is a perfect setup the only companies l know that make more profit with the higher their the cost of their raw material is.

Who cares what Cheney would say? The Dems and the left tie themselves way too much up in knots worrying about that.

Look up. That crowd has lost the support of everyone except about 20% of the American people. Those are the dead-enders who are always going to vote Republican anyways. So who cares what they might say.

Quit worrying about what Cheney and the neocons might say. Hit them and hit them hard. Politically they are down on the ground right now and its time to kick them. Hit them hard on what a disaster these wars have been, and hit them hard on the lies they told that got us into this mess. Hit anyone who backed them and supported them. Politics ain't beanbag. Its a contact sport. When you enemy is down, hit them and hit them hard.

"But maybe the first half of the remarks was the "real" Obama, and the other half was the "calculating" Obama."
-----------------
Shouldn't we be very wary of a politician who contradicts himself in one answer.

As to the 'real Obama', he's also going around promising massive increases in military spending.

He's promising to expand the number of troops in the Army and Marines. That's more salaries, more equipment, more supplies, etc. And surely he's not doing this then planning not to use them.

He's promising to spend lots of money 'modernizing' the equipment of the armed forces.

He's promising to spend lots of money 'training' the armed forces.

At no time has he said anything that he would cut. The first half of the quotes given above is as close as I've seen, and there he couldn't even finish the thought without saying he wouldn't bring the money and the troops home ... just redeploy them to a different war.

Why on earth people think this guy is a 'peace' candidate or an antiwar candidate is beyond me?

What we really need to do is to cut the spending on the war AND cut Pentagon spending. We could probably free up about $300,000,000,000.00 a year to either spend on things we need here (like keeping Americans from losing their homes because they got suckered by crooked mortgage brokers) or reduce the debt. The latter would help prop up the dollar and help us out.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Obama to say it. He's way to much enthrall to the Pentagon and the merchants of death.

I don't think Congress is going to hear it because I tend to think this guy may have hit it on the head.

http://oakcreekforum.blogspot.com/2008/03/blog-post_18.html

Nice article, and totally correct. But you know what Cheney would say to all you stated? "So."

That's the arrogant bunch we are dealing with. No qualms whatsoever of continuing the slaughter in Iraq.

What's been missing this year has been primary challenges within the Dem party against all these congress critters 'who have sat on their hands'.

That was the only way we could get a change by electing Dems. They'd have to be different Dems from the ones that have been screwing us time after time in this Congress.

So, now the only alternative is to vote Green or vote independent in the fall. We must change the course this country is on. We need a government that is accountable to the people, not contributors. We need a Congress that would hold a President accountable.

We won't get that by voting for the same Democrats who already told us loud and clear that they won't do any of this.

Marlene said:

"Native born Americans have never experienced murderous totalitarian rule, as I once did. But I am telling you – it is coming. It is coming, thanks to stupidity, apathy and the dereliction of duty by those in politics and the press with enough real political and persuasive power to stand up for democracy."

Chilling.

Native born Americans have experienced murderous totalitarian rule since Columbus' time. We are victims of our violent past, carrying with us the makings of our predicament in the form of theocracy, plutocracy and hegemony. All totalitarian forms of government carry their own poison pill called "representative" democracy.

Direct democracy is the only proven form of successful democracy.

Heard this from Barak Obama on this mornings "Democracy Now"...

"We also have to understand that the more than 10 billion dollars we're spending each month in Iraq is money we could be investing here at home. Just think, just think what battles we can be fighting instead of fighting this misguided war...

[There was an awkward pause at this point. Silly me, I thought he was going to talk about battles againse poverty, lack of healthcare, crumbling cities and infrastructure, global warming...]

...Instead of fighting this war we can be fighting the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 and who are plotting against us in Afghanistan, in Pakistan."

[Groan...]

Turn this country around? At very best, based on this statement, I see just change of tack to a broad reach, still on a rightward course, of course.

But maybe the first half of the remarks was the "real" Obama, and the other half was the "calculating" Obama.

When recently informed by a reporter that a majority of Americans want to see us get out of Iraq, our vice-president spat once again in the face of the American people by eloquently uttering "So?"

"Victory in Iraq" means wasting that part of the world into the stone age, just like in Vietnam, until all abiltity to resist the pillage of their resources by corporate barbarians so Americans can drive huge gas and ecology wasting machines with impunity, is gone. The more Sunni and Shi'a fight each other the more the robber barons love it. They don't care if we leave at some point in appairent defeat...by then the real mission will be accomplished. Iraq or Iran or al Qaeda will never occupy the US so any "defeat" will be as fictional as any kind of victory...just like in Vietnam. They have learned how to play us so well.

There are 59 million live voters out there who twice voted for George Bush, who have neither died nor gotten any smarter, and most of them are getting ready to vote for John McCain. Our country is beyond the point of choice. We are well into an era of punishment for past mistakes. I listened to a representative cross section of "us" on public TV the other day, discussing the war. Believe me, John Q. American has gone stark staring mad. It sounds a little harsh to say that the best hope for this country is fast and merciful economic bankruptcy, But a surfeit of dumbness is more likely to solve the Iraq problem than a mythical groundswell of resurgent morality and intelligence from the "people."

TO THE DEMS

I have been meaning to write something like this for awhile because of your feckless responses and kowtowing to a president who is out to destroy this country. Why? Because you are cynical and political to an extreme. It is either that or you want to have all the stuff that is on the books now plus a war that you think will help you and without the blame. This is neither humanistic or morally defendable. Petraeus got what he deserves and cutting off funds for this war is the way to go because when it comes to priorities for this occupation it is contractors first and troops last. You can see this from any facts that you look at. So who cares for the troops? Some of you have been doing a lot of talking but nobody has thrown a rock at this glass house of an administration. Leave it to the people thru MoveOn.Org to do the heavy lifting for what you are supposed to be doing. You will not get my vote because you are no better than the repubs. Is there any difference in dictators, if one is a dem. or a repub? The way that you are acting you just want the whole pie for yourselves and forget the people again. I'm 71 and cant help but wonder what of the younger people? Because of your feckless nature it is a bleak future for them. Tony
I'm 72 now and how much has changed? Tony

I have written a few times here at Common Dreams of my association with the late, great Czechoslovak patriot, Victor Lazslo, whom I met as a fellow refugee in Casablanca late in 1941. With his help I too came to America and worked with him and his wife, Ilse Lund, in the cause of destroying fascism. When the Second World War in Europe ended in 1945 Victor Lazslo wanted nothing more than to return to Czechoslovakia. The Communists, however, had as high a price on his head as the Nazis once did. They made several attempts on his life while he was living in New York. As grateful as he was to America for taking him in as a refugee from fascism, the beginning of the Cold War suddenly made him suspect to many Americans. This great man who believed and wrote and spoke so passionately about human freedom and democracy was being reviled as a "subversive foreigner", "fifth columnist" and "fellow traveler". It was all so unbelievable. The communists were after him and so was the United States government in the person of Joseph McCarthy. On July 4, 1953, at the height of McCarthy's power and the 177th birthday of this nation, Victor Lazslo died at the age of 47. The official cause of death was a brain aneurism but, in fact, he died of a broken heart.

So here we find ourselves with another drunken and criminal Republican political degenerate commanding the heights of power in the United States. McCarthy and McCarthyism were eventually defeated. Richard Nixon was impeached and resigned. But what has anybody done about Bush and Cheney? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is no Joseph Welch or Archibald Cox, only a pack of preening cowards and opportunists dressed in K Mart knockoffs of the Emperor's New Clothes. Native born Americans have never experienced murderous totalitarian rule, as I once did. But I am telling you – it is coming. It is coming, thanks to stupidity, apathy and the dereliction of duty by those in politics and the press with enough real political and persuasive power to stand up for democracy. It seems the current national motto of this country (whose name is now the United States of the Unitary Executive) is something I once heard spoken by another of Victor Lazslo's friends before he had his own moment of human and political truth: "I stick my neck out for nobody".

Head your convoy toward Al Queda in Afghanistan, take a wrong turn into Iraq, redefine it as the correct turn and getting out of there as "retreat" and "defeat." Keep going down that road while you go broke and your passengers and those you meet die in the process, with Al Queda in Afghanistan and Packistan thriving and growing in your neglect and obvious foolishness---what kind of nonsense is this!
The soldiers must obey the Emperor and say "What a good mission the Emperor has sent us on." It is up to us to say the Emperor is naked as well a fool and this nonsense must be stopped-and to make that happen.
We are largely ignorant of the complex mix of tribal, religious, ethnic and historical forces we have stirred up as we blundered down the road into Iraq and cannot succeed by trying to put this toothpaste back into the tube. The quicker we get the h___ out of there the sooner they can put the pieces to their puzzle together.
Frankly, we are broke and have to get out.

HOW A WAR MISTAKE WORKS

First, someone decides to occupy. In 98 per cent of instances, this was a mistake.

Now we are in the quagmire, asking, "Who put us here?" Only very slowly do we realize it was Jack, from "Lord of the Flies," a boy-man of arrested emotional development.

"Stay the course! Finish the job! We can win!" No, you can't, goose. Not in a million years. History is against you. Your fate is to go down as a self-deluded replica of your popular mother only with a penis.

Soldiers who call anyone who is not an American a "haji," making no distinction between Al Qaeda and the mayor of some village are a big part of the problem. Though many are educable, few are educated before they come to Iraq. No one speaks Arabic, but everyone is expected to know who the bad guys are.

A dead person was insurgent. A live person could be innocent or insurgent. "Blow up any taxicab with orange panels." But that's most of the taxicabs in Iraq.

If someone runs toward a group of Americans to seek help, he gets shot repeatedly in the left shoulder-- if he is lucky.

A little boy in a car watches his father, the driver, get decapitated by American machine gun fire.

A man's head is reduced to pudding by a six-inch diameter shell because he dared to walk down a street in his town just as he had done his entire life.

A boy is severely beaten because he rode his bike through a formation of American soldiers.

Another boy, similar, is shot. His bike is thrown on his body. He could have been carrying a hydrogen bomb. Besides, "he's a haji, so what's the difference? They're all animals. What does it matter?"

A roadside bomb killed everyone's buddy and the rules about whom you can shoot have changed three times that day. Most recent: "If you feel threatened, shoot" and "YOU decide."

Dead Iraqis, killed by Americans, line the road. The Americans put their special assortment of Iraqi rifles on top of the bodies to make sure that these people were Military.

No one shoots anybody when a reporter is around. Were Iraqis still being shot, unreported, in the glory days of General Petraeus's surge? Of course.

It is not the fact that Americans routinely shoot innocent Iraqi civilians-- I knew that. I saw a good film on the subject and keep regular contact with the nearest American Friends Service Committee office, which makes a business of knowing such things.

It is THE EXTENT of the violence against innocents as portrayed by fact-checked "Winter Soldier" testimony.

No reconstruction of Iraq occurs. The only construction is of American installations.

Author Jeremy Scahill has pointed out that the center of the anti-war movement in 2008, unlike Vietnam days, is in the Military itself.

These are former young hawks of our voluntary Army, educable after all and willing to transform, describing their fear of every day. "I'm not the monster I was," Marine Corporal Jon M. Turner said after tearing off his service medals.

Not only do they possess the quality of transformation, these Winter Soldiers, setting them apart from their elders, but appear many times more intelligent, too.

Although I didn't hear every word of the testimony, the opinion seemed unanimous for immediate withdrawal without a single American left behind-- NOT A MISTAKE.