The Crusaders
“The Christian Taliban is Running the Department of Defense”
Sixteen words may be all that stand right now between the apparatus of government and the Founding Fathers’ worst nightmare. And those words are starting to give.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .”
When George Bush, in the wake of 9/11, puffed himself into Richard the Lionheart and declared he would lead the country in a “crusade” against terrorism - you know, crusade, as in slaughter of Muslim infidels - turns out . . . oh, how awkward (if you’re on White House spin duty) . . . he may have been speaking literally.
What’s certain, in any case, is that a lot of people in high and low places within the Bush administration - and in particular, the military - heard him literally, and regard the war on terror as a religious war:
“The enemy has got a face. He’s called Satan. He lives in Fallujah. And we’re going to destroy him,” a lieutenant colonel, according to a BBC reporter, said to his troops on the eve of the destruction of that undefended city in post-election 2004.
“I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol,” Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Jerry Boykin notoriously boasted a few years back, speaking of a Muslim warlord in Somalia. And by the way, George Bush is “in the White House because God put him there.”
And, of course, just the other day, Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich, who conducted the first official investigation into Pat Tillman’s death, opined that Tillman’s family is only pestering the Army for the, ahem, truth about how he died because their loved one, a non-believer with no heavenly reward to reap, is now “worm dirt.”
Until I read the newly published “With God on Their Side” (St. Martin’s Press), Michael Weinstein’s disturbing account of anti-Semitism at the U.S. Air Force Academy, I shrugged off each of these remarks, and so much more, as isolated, almost comically intolerant noises out of True Believer Land. Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they do . . .
Now my blood runs cold. Weinstein, a 1977 graduate of the Academy and former assistant general counsel in the Reagan administration, and a lifelong Republican, has devoted the last several years of his life to battling what he has come to regard as a fundamentalist takeover of the Academy, turning it, in effect, into a taxpayer-supported Evangelical institution. He charges that the separation of church and state is rapidly vanishing at the school, which routinely promotes sectarian religious events, tolerates the proselytizing of uniquely vulnerable new recruits and, basically, conflates evangelical interests and the national interest.
If you think this is just a fight over some abstract principle, with ramifications only for atheist, Jewish, Buddhist and other cadets who may be “offended” by fundamentalist God talk, I urge you to check out Weinstein’s book or website. He documents a chilling phenomenon: The whole U.S. military, up and down the chain of command, is coming to be dominated by members of a small, characteristically intolerant sliver of Christianity who truly regard themselves as Christian soldiers, on a God-appointed mission to harvest souls and battle evil.
Weinstein, whose family tradition of national service is pretty impressive, does not do battle lightly with those who now run his alma mater. One of his sons is a recent graduate of the Air Force Academy and the other is still a cadet there. The fact that both of them endured anti-Semitic harassment initially spurred him to take action. But this goes deeper than disrespect for other faiths. The attitude he has encountered in his attempt to hold the institution, and the rest of the military, accountable smacks of a coup: “The Christian Taliban is running the Department of Defense,” he told me. “It inundates everything.”
Can you imagine a contingent of religious zealots, with their contempt for secular values (and such manifestations of secular order as the U.S. Constitution) - and with their zest for holy war - in control of the most potent fighting force and weaponry in human history? Is this possible?
Well, said Weinstein, consider the 523rd Fighter Squadron, based at Cannon Air Force Base, N.M., which calls itself The Crusaders, and whose emblem consists of a sword, four crosses and a medieval knight’s helmet. Check ‘em out at globalsecurity.org, which reports that the payload on the F-16s they fly consists of “a wide variety of conventional, precision guided and nuclear weapons.”
And listen once again to Commander-in-Chief Bush, speaking in 2003 to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, according to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: “God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East.”
If this is a religious war - a “clash of civilizations,” waged by competing agents of God’s will - victory may be indistinguishable from Armageddon. God help the human race.
Robert Koehler, an award-winning, Chicago-based journalist, is an editor at Tribune Media Services and nationally syndicated writer. You can respond to this column at bkoehler@tribune.com.
© 2007 Common Wonders
Both Koehler and Weinstein are right: the christian taliban is taking over this country, with a subtle, but a ruthless, manipulative effectiveness. Barely anybody dares oppose them, because most people don’t want to be considered “godless”. For all you christians out there, reading this, please compare what is going on here with what is going on in the muslim world. Same patterns, just a different “holy” book.
I say it is time we discard the believe in god, a god, any god onto the trash heap of history, as yet another failed experiment, together with soviet-style communism. The evolutionary origins of religion have long lost their value for the survival of the human race, now religious people are threatening the survival of men.
If a person hears voices inside his head, that person is taken to a mental hospital and medicated and treated. But if that person claims it is god speaking to him, then all of a sudden most people will take him seriously!
It is time to call a religious “experience” what it really is: a deluded fantasy. Just like my fantasy of winning the lottery or being seduced by Scarlett Johansson will make me feel good for a few minutes, but after that it is back to reality.
We all got over realizing that Santa isn’t real, he is only an elaborate fantasy sustained by custom and culture. Let’s get over the fact that the same applies to god: it is nothing more than an elaborate fantasy.
The irony is the original Crusaders with their Sunni allies were driven out of the Holy Land by the Shiites. Those who can’t remember history are doomed…etc.
Hard to say. Arguably religion’s main impetus (when connected to past kings, past and current despots and modern autocrats) been a ruse in North America. Mainly just a mechanism to pave the way, grease the wheels, for new economic markets.
Wiccans in the armed forces can now get a pentangle on their grave stones. How’d that get by the Christian taliban in the DoD?
It isn’t just the DOD, but the mercenaries as well. Eric Prince, the founder of Blackwater, is a Christian fundamentalist, as are many members of his private army. There is nothing like the irrational emotionalism and zealotry that comes from identifying with cosmic forces to really ignite the warrior spirit!
If Jesus had known what people would be doing in his name, I think he would have stuck to carpentry.
Coming to your neighborhood soon. Tomas de Torquemada
Koehler, like almost all progressive commentators, misinterprets Samuel Huntington’s “clash of civilizations”. Huntington’s point was that, after the Cold War ended, contention among the world’s nine civilizations became the best conceptual framework for understanding geopolitical developments. The “clash of civilizations” does not refer to wars, but to the inevitable contention between different cultures. Within this context, wars may nor may not occur, depending on our understanding and mutual tolerance.
In the late 80’s I observed how the government of El Salvador used religion to justify the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians, the rape of Nuns, the castration of Priests and widespread torture. The point I want to make is that this so called ‘religious’ movement of right wing nuts is nothing new. It is all part of the Fascist agenda, an agenda that has been on the table for decades. Religion is just one tool they use to maintain control using fear and intimidation.
The most disheartening aspect of USA’s present dilemma is the fact that most people seem unaware of the US government fascist history. If our society does not learn the lessons of it’s own history than all the efforts of progressives will amount to nothing. We must stop calling this Iraq debacle a mistake. It is a crime against humanity and the Constitution.
Isn’t hearing voices a sign of schizophrenia and a possible psychotic break? Bush isn’t mentally competent to lead this nation.
It’s the KKK, folks. Aryan Nation, American Nazi Party. All the same. White supremacists who missed the chance to be civilized in a post Magna Carta fashion. We should direct them all to Blackwater, then have our real army attack them, and then we won’t have all the extant problems of slavery and the Kennedy-Lennon killing bush family ever again.
For those who think Bro Winstein is a paranoid zionist appologist, read Chris Hedges new book,”American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America”.
In it he talks about how the Chrtistian Fascinsts isolate themselves and their followers from their surrounding community EXCEPT for an inordinate affection for first responders (like fire and police) and the military whom they seek to seduce with every flattery they can concoct.
I am also reminded of Sinclair Lewis’ famous quote from his book,”It Can’t Happen Here”,. Lewis says, “When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
For any who doubt weinstein, read Chris Hedges book, “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America”. Hedges spent two years among these people and nnotes that one of the first things they do is isolate their followers from their surrounding comunities (inb cult like fashion)EXCEPT for law enforcement and the military whom theyu go out of their way to court and seduce with all manner of flattery.
Sinclair Lewis said in “It Can’t Happen here”, that when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. Religion,law enforcement and the military all have legitimate roles in our society but this marriage is illegitimate according to the constitution,
Robert Koehler – Great article! But don’t forget the Militant Christian Madrassas of Pat Robertson, Falwell et al, and the ranks from which Pope Bush recruits his crusaders.
Allow me to weave a brief history.
Compelled by devotion and their innate desire for expediting the return of their savior, the Balfour Declaration, was propelled in part by British/American Christian fanaticism and zealotry that breathed into existence the current and new creature.
It is the Roman fabrication, riding on the back of Israeli/Egyptian history that is greatly to blame. The roots of which are xenophobic in both cases.
(Please Read Ahmed Osman - The House of Messiah)
To put Ahmed Osman’s work into better current perspective, please also read:
(Michael Baigent’s ‘The Inquisition’.)
Many out of print, new and used titles can be found at: abeBooks.com
On April 20th 1233, Pope Gregory IX issued a Bull that conferred on the Dominicans the specific task of eradicating heresy, in the form of Gnosticism, which was taking root in southern France, threatening to undermine the authority of the Papal throne. Thus was the Office of Inquisition effectively inaugurated.
By virtue of the Pope’s edict, Dominican Inquisitors were given legal authority to convict suspected heretics without any possibility of appeal – and thus, in effect, to pronounce summary death sentences. With the Pope’s blessing the machinery for mass extermination was established on an official legal basis.
In 1540, under Pope Paul III, the old Papal or Roman Inquisition was reconstituted, and modeled specifically on its Spanish counterpart; its chief priority was no longer to be supposed ‘purity’ of the faith, but the stability and welfare of Papacy and Church. Its official title became the ‘Sacred Roman Congregation and Universal Inquisition, or Holy Office’.
In attempt to purge its sinister foundations from the mind, in 1965, the Inquisition was once more renamed as the ‘Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’. It operates under that appellation today, a direct lineal descendant of the original Inquisition created in 1234.
The last member of this ‘Holy Office’ is the current Pope Ratzinger, as former Cardinal, the Grand Inquisitor, was the right arm to Pope John Paul II.
Although the throne has been stripped of its secular authority and its ability to roast any of those that might stand in its way, it nevertheless maintains a wide network, founded upon dogmatic psychological terror, the scion of Constantine’s original fabrication, today incites the flames of Christian Fundamentalist fervor that currently ravages the Middle East. Historically, Protestants became equally enthused in displaying they’re pyro-roasting skills. It is evidently clear that the Holly Office was never concerned about saving souls as much as it was about maintaining its seat of authority through confiscation of property under the guise of sinning against dogma. Its sinful opponents were thus dispensed with by severing the errant soul from the body by flame, with their property transferred appropriately into the hands of god.
The Catholic Church began fanning the flames of Anti-Semitism, long before the culpable malleability of Hitler arrived on the scene, whose ideology became easily subsumed by the aspirations of the Roman throne.
In 1920, under the protection of Merry del Val, cardinal Benigni began to produce a bulletin in French called ‘Antisemite’. Despite the title, the cardinal insisted that he was not really anti-Semitic. He was merely opposed to the alleged international Judaic conspiracy that dominated banking, freemasonry and Bolshevism but also referred to the Jewish people as the ‘Elect of the Antichrist’.
In 1923, in order to join ERDS (Entente romaine de defense sociale) reformed from Benigni’s – Sodalitium pianum – members were required to be ‘aryan or aryanised nation’ and embrace the motto ‘Religion, Family, Homeland’, primary spokesman for ERDS was a certain Abbe Boulin, who wrote belligerently of the ‘assault’ on Europe by international Jewish banking.
In earlier times, the Church had similarly lusted after the land, wealth and banking networks of the Templar’s, until charges of heresy were able to confiscate those resources and appropriately place them into gods coffers, relegating the sinful heretics to the rotisserie of the flame.
It must be remembered that militant Islam arose as reactionary to the predations of Constantine’s Christianized Rome and its Popes – Blow Back.
In light of the current Fundamentalist zealots at the helm of U.S. policy – Pope Bush – the above should send a resonant chill through the attentive soul. Ironically, in the end, it might very well be Israel upon which we call to rescue us from the current ill Roman wind which blows. But, as long as Israel wears the same myopia, cloaked in the equally xenophobic fabrication Rome has spun for it, it too remains blind. Let us hope Israel’s reconciliation with its Egyptian roots, will remove those blinders for everyone’s sake.
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
Once you start believing lies you get lost in them.
These people really live their lies!
The worst government is often the most moral. One composed of cynics is often the most tolerant and humane. But when fanatics are on top there is no limit to oppression.
-H.L. Mencken
Don’t forget the billions of dollars which was robbed from the taxpayers at the “faith based” initiatives and was given to Liberty Colege and folks like Haggart, the preacher at the White House who was using drugs and male partners while railing against homophobia.
What has every one of you done today to get the impeachment started against the leaders? Have you called capitol switchboard 202-225-3121 and have you sent a letter to americanvoices@mail.bouse.gov to support impeachment? It has nothing to do with party politics and everything to do with what is patriotic and must be done: Lets ROLL as they say in the flight 97 call your elected representatives and as Donald Trump says: you are fired” that would send a message to the president.
Do these lice really believe that their Saviour is coming back to save the likes of them? This is the poorest sample of religio-political humankind yet to crawl out from under a rock. George Carlin was right: They are killing us in a pissing contest over who has the best imaginary friend.
Every time they have a crusade to kill Muslims a lot of Jews get killed while the army heads to Jerusalem.
Sure some folks (above) think a “crusade” is a Christian/Jewish antiArab plot, but to this this Jew a “crusade” is what Christians do to Jews and Arabs and anyone else who gets in their way.
Of course, Bush’s use of the term is just ignorant. He’s just an ignorant user of words and ideas that he barely understands and has not historical knowledge to comprehend. His followers on the other hand are both intelligent, and genuine Christo-fascists.
Oh, and ““Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .”” obviously (to the unitary executive theorists) does not apply to the actions of the executive or its administration of military academies… since these are administrative and executive actions… not “laws” made by “Congress.”
But think about it…. in the 18th and 19th century the executive was small and weak… it’s authority MAY arguably have been great, but its functional power was limited by size and budget. Post 1930s, the expansion of that government without the corresponding adjustment in the constitutional structures governing its operation create the opportunity for an overbearing fascist central authority.
I have to applaud Cheney and company for grasping the opportunities that the constitution presents them with for action unencumbered by law. They’ve even got an argument that the Vice Presidency is a “fourth branch of government.” These fascists are nothing if not genuine American fascists… constitutionally aware fascists… working in the spaces that a creaky 18th century document left wide open for their exploitation.
While it is more likely that we will degenerate into a fascist dictatorship… what we really need is a constitutional convention that creates a sovereign parliament (Congress) and essentially demotes the Presidency to the status of errand boy for the Congress.
The very idea of an independent executive Presidency with a fixed four year term is an invitation to fascism…. and the Christian fascists have figured this out. Smart puppies, these.
We’re going to need a new Constitutional Convention. How likely is that? Not very.
“It is time to call a religious “experience” what it really is: a deluded fantasy”
This common criticism of religion is too west-centric. Two major religions, Buddhism and Hinduism, have no literal gods as a westerner would recognise them. They are either “godless” or they understand that their gods and demigods are to be understood as metaphors for truths that otherwise are dificult to put into language.
But I agree that the rise of infantile monothiestic religions that take the idea of a nasty-tempered being in the sky literally, instead of a metaphor for human foibles like the greek and roman gods were, is a rather nasty historical development.
Zeitgeist:
Yours is very good history presentation. Physicist distinguish long, medium and near distance actions or interactions. For example, in a crystal long distance interaction is almost the same as near on. That is why it is crystal. In the water long distance interaction is way too small comparative with the near distance one. That is why water is liquid but under high pressure jet of water is as strong as steel and can cut through the rock.
The lore of yesterday may have much less influence for everyday life for people busy to have their ends meet simply do not know much beyond their direct needs, least of all they let old story to affect their to-day decisions. This why huntingtons of Clash of Civilization infamy are so wrong. But they are paid to be wrong and create delusions in order to manipulate people.
Christianity, singlehandedly created by Constantine, is but one example. If I say that the whole history is moving about economics, which to-day is measured by money, I would say nothing new; Wall Street Journal would agree with me whole heartedly. But so would Marx.
After coup d’état of 18 Brumaire, Napoleon Bonaparte sucked his old fiends Jacobins, so did Hitler in 1934 and so did Stalin in 1937. Napoleon did not need any pretext, Hitler used some bogus explanations, and Stalin vehemently fought heresy within ranks of his church, which he created by the same methods Constantine used.
Continue:
Emperor Bush goes along the same path with only difference that he massacres foreign people to show Americans what is in store for them. None of those people, who helped Napoleon, Hitler or Stalin to became, Hitler or Stalin, ever thought about their future fate. Yet, the fate was exactly the same, with or without religion, clash of civilizations or any other nonsense.
If we, discussing this article, had $2 Trillion between us, what all of us would do in the first place? We would hire Pope, Huntington and legion of other barking dogs and psychologists to penetrate people subconscious to convince the that the order they live under is divine order, divinity being Christ, Mohamed, Market, whatever. Ford did it to avoid rabble-rousers.
Then we would train military to operate automates, animated and not, to avoid mutinies. We are almost there.
But it would not work and we all know it; we learn it from history – fates of Napoleon, Hitler or Stalin and multitudes of other tyrants. Alas, emperor bush does not read books and his junta is doomed.
One of Napoleon’s generals is reported to have said “God is on our side” to cheer N. up at a bad time. But N., a practical cynic, answered that “God is on the side with the heaviest artillery.” Our current bunch seems to have it backward - we certainly have the heaviest artillery, and that proves that God is on our side.
I’m no believer in any gods (read Dawkins’ book “The God Delusion”) and find it terrifying that our so-called “leaders” really do.
Sociopaths:
1-Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2-Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3-Authoritarian
4-Secretive
5-Paranoid
6-Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7-Conventional appearance
8-Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9-Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim’s life
10-Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim’s affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11-Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12-Incapable of real human attachment to another
13-Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14-Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15-May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
Sound like anyone you know???…….
observer-
Thanks for your interpolated observation!
Jonthenet May 3rd, 2007 4:12 pm-
Yes grandma - For lack of a better term, God, does exist, but you wont find this in the institutions of men where the Ego has been elevated to the throne, seat of the senses, tethers to the material world, blinders to the wisdom and understanding of the inner higher-self. The Wisdom of science is to know the self, therein lays the key in Understanding the relationship of self to the Universe, through all of its varied, subliminal levels, what ever they may be, from matter on up, seen or unseen. From this knowledge comes discernment against being misled.
The forces in the universe are neither good nor evil, but misappropriated, in the hands of those who perceive those forces as weapons of power then do they manifest as evil.
When a great light is turned into darkness, the darkness can be very dark indeed.
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
Mankind has proven itself incapable and untrustworthy in the pulling down of spiritual abstractions, concretizing them into religious and political dominions, without perverting those abstractions in the hands of human nature.
As the Alchemists said, “It is like casting the pearls to the swine”.
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
If you think this article is scary, just go to Weinstein’s website: http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/ and check out the audio and video on the media page. This is REALLY SCARY! These dominionist nutjobs are WORSE than Osama, and they are in control of OUR NUKES!
Religion = opium
I see Buddhism mentioned here in combination with major religions. Buddhism is not a religion. Buddha was a human being that strove to understand the endless cycle of suffering and a way out of it. Which leads us to the science of suffering. Suffering is connected to the principle of temporariness a principle that is offensive to religion which tries to sell the people a way out of their temporary existence with their temporary achievements. Temporariness is to Christianity as is Garlic to Vampires.
For Buddha the only way out of the cage of addiction to fight temporariness was love, compassion and understanding.
Having said that it becomes clear why our kkkristian wannabe crusaders fight like ‘hell’ to give them the illusion of being above temporariness by killing others. That’s why the bushling has such a joy in executing others.
Under the law of Karma the loss of life reflects a perpetual motion forward to love, compassion and understanding.
Any activity in the opposite direction e.g. for personal gain will only result in a corrective reaction on behalf of Karma.
As for Karma is a principle and does not answer to any religion, religion has its own Karma.
I emailed Mr. Koehler thusly: “Please ask yourself is the conclusion reached in the subtitle of your column: “The Christian Taliban Is Running the Department of Defense” adequately supported by mentioning as proof just the etheral hallucinations of the Dear Leader and two “Dominionist” officers spewing forth? (I fully understand given tons of information and misinformation spewed out by the MSM and the Internet 24/7, etc, that rule number one could be seen as: First get the Reader’s attention; so much else is flying about!) But fanning the fear factor to wake up those not paying enough attention also demands responsible followup and more columns with many more facts. My immediate reaction to your mesmerizing essay:
Get Michael Weinstein to talk to Chris Hedges. Ask both authors to appear as speakers at the earliest National Press Club luncheon in Wash., DC. Ask C-Span and the mainstream press to cover it.
Religious zealotry now appears to undergird a crucial component of the Military-Industrial-Congressional complex ….that not only dominates our economy, but totally determines our national culture. (paraphrasing Pres. candidate Sen. Mike Gravel on last week’s MSNBC presidential debate among Democratic Party candidates)
This is a story that will “have legs” for the next 10 years at the least, if the investigative press is not throttled en route. Best Wishes”
Good work WernerS.
Here is an excellent book review of Chris Hedges book - Christian Fascism:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=72&ItemID=12671
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
The Christian Right has been on a holy crusade - - a kind of jihad - - to seize control of many basic power centers: the military academies, Congress, the miltary chaplaincy. They are making serious inroads into military units in Iraq and elsewhere. I don’t want to start a pogram, but somehow we must publicize this serious threat and begin to weaken the Christian Right’s hold. They are up to no good. They believe firmly that this country has been ruined by “liberals”, and only theocratic control by Christians and conformity with their theological and ethical principles can save the country. I shudder when I read of the growing religiosity on campuses and in the military: it bodes ill for religious freedom in our diverse society.
Organized religion is the root of all evil. Organized religion requires anti-intellectualism - if you believe one miracle (lie) then you can doubt any and all truth (science) in the name of faith.
Religion does not separate right from wrong, it divides “us” from “them”. People who need supreme beings to tell them not to steal cars under penalty of eternal damnation are not moral, and are just living in fear. People living in fear can be motivated by more fear (Saddam = mushroom cloud, eg) to support their manipulators’ wishes. I give you the everyday American - a scared little sheep who believes only he and those who believe as he does can be saved. And this salvation comes without any exercise of mental acuity, analysis, free will, or basis in reality - just faith alone.
While I don’t normally agree with Hitchens (somewhat of a fascist himself, whose views on “the war on terror” are right-wing in the extreme) his new book seems like a worthwhile analysis. Not that it will make any difference in a world whose major conflicts are based on strict interpretations of ancient manuscripts of uncertain provenance…
jonthenet - That’s easy. I recommend Michael Schermer’s book ‘The Science of Good and Evil.’ He gets close to it but I think he doesn’t go far enough. To augment his view -
Notice that every species that lives in a social group has various rules of behavior that all obey - if they don’t, they’re shunned or kicked out of the group entirely. Since humans are primates, look at other primate bands - they all have rules for social behavior that are enforced by shunning, food deprivation, or refusal to mate. These measures are usually temporary, and rarely lead to death, something that can’t be said about our own group rules. But it would be impossible for a species to become social in the first place without some rules of behavior that let them get along with each other - and those rules evolve right along with the group.
We’re so smart that we invent our own rules, rather than rely entirely on instinct, as ‘lower’ species do. But no band of animals could become a band at all without some rules of behavior, either instinctive or in reaction to necessity.
These rules define what’s good or not-good in the group, and if they want to get along with the others the members of the group pretty much follow the rules. Conflicts arise when two groups of the same species but with different rules meet each other - thus, fighting between bands or, in human terms, war.
It is not necessary to postulate a supernatural being ‘in charge’ somewhere invisible to get good and evil. Understood rules of behavior are necessary for all social animal groups to form at all, including humans.
Everybody, read Mark Twain’s, “The War Prayer”, described in wiki, “… a short story or prose poem by Mark Twain, is a scathing indictment of war, and particularly of blind patriotic and religious fervor as motivations for war.”
Read for free:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_War_Prayer
But, hey, it’s not just the military- these militant Christians are EVERYWHERE. The peer pressure at schools for Christian conversion is just intense.
I raised my own sons without following any organized religion. They think for themselves, are caring, loving human beings, repsect others, are accountable for their own actions, discern between right and wrong and yet still consider themeselves spiritual beings, because they have such reverance for LIFE.
Seperation of Church and State- FOREVER!
grandma-
The religion of Darwinism is absolute BS, and has been archaeologically disproved many times over. Anomalies are simply swept under the carpet in order to maintain the consensus establishments preexisting, false assumptions of Darwinism. To begin with, the physical sciences are strictly limited to that of the senses, which paint a consensus reality that is strictly monitored. It has simply grown into another form of dogma.
Please read Michael A. Cremo’s Forbidden Archeology
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
The Christian Taliban is Running the Dept of Defense? I thought it was Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Feith. Are they Christian? I agree that something has gone terribly wrong with Christianity in America, and its adherents seem to be predominantly pro-war and pro-rich but I don’t think the problems in DoD are entirely attributable to Christians.
I was opposed to the war in Iraq before reading this article but now I see what a great thing this war is. Their crazies are fighting our crazies. May the war intensify so that the true believers on both sides can fall more frequently and in greater and greater numbers.
BTW, karma is just the law of cause and effect, familiar to us all. It is like the law of gravity - it always works, it never takes a break, and there is no mind behind it, no god deciding who gets rewarded and who gets punished. Good actions bring happiness, bad actions bring grief. The Christian fools and the Muslem fools just don’t get it. That’s why they are fighting each other, and the rest of us should just enjoy the show as they kill each other in honor of their respective imaginary friends.
Reaper is on to something. The evangilical movement has largely merged, at least politically, with the Zionist movement. Both have significant influence over American policies, local and foreign. This alliance exposes that neither movement is only about theology, since their theologies are indeed incompatible. They share several common practical goals, the most sinister of which seems to be to use American resources to kill Arabs whenever they can justify it.
I’m angry that both of these movements have been so successful at using my tax dollars for their sick agendas, but more importantly I’m angry about the endless wars they help cause. This alliance has done one good thing, however. It has opened the door to criticism of Zionism and (some) frank discussion about its influence over American policy. Before, when Zionism was only Jewish, it was an untouchable topic, lest anyone complaining be an “anti-semite.” This allowed the Zionists to run afoul of the values we as Americans hold dear, while imposing a collective gag order imposed on the entire nation (although not on other nations where discussion has always been more frank). Now with cruel-intentioned Christians merging openly with the the cruel-intentioned Jews, we can discuss it more frankly, since Christians do not share the same P.C. protection.
Being anti-Zionist and anti-Crusador means being anti-imperialist, anti-cruelty, pro-secular democracy, and pro-peace.
Presently?
Jonthenet - I am Buddhist and haven’t the slightest fear of the Muslems or the Christians even though both of them kill non-believers. The Christians are very busy killing non-believers so your defense of them is weak. Try reading the above article. They are just as crazy as the people they are fighting. And the Islamic crazies hit the twin towers to protest the Christian/Jewish alliance arrayed against them. Your argument that the Islamic crazies want to kill all non-believers indicates you have bought into the arguments of the far right. Again I say wars where nuts kill nuts may not be all bad…karma is just operating, as always. Yawn.
Me thinks jonthenet is a troll.
Anyway - Of course the war on terror is a religious war. It was waged by a religious fanatic to fight religious fanatics. Armageddon is the goal, these guy’s are a bunch of religious crazies.
The right wing “Christian” fascists have been plotting the take over of the USA for many many years, its all about power and if you control the military you have the power. Look at what’s happening in Turkey.
Religion is the perversion of the spiritual for the purpose of controlling the masses. The heritage of the children of Abraham is one of mass murder and genocide for the sake of power. The god of the old testament is one sick puppy, Jesus is a myth, and Mohamed was a megalomaniac.
The battle between Christianity an Islam has been going on for a long time and………..
It only get worse from here.
Ron - The majority of the people being killed in this holly war are innocent. Innocent civilians in Iraq innocent the men and women in the US military. Innocent Palestinian and Israeli children. So I guess as a good Buddhist you advocate the killing of innocents for the sake of the powerful and the seekers of that power. Hmmm I think you should check again on those Buddhist teachings, the Buddhist I know would not even squash an innocent beetle when it is killing the vegetables in their garden.
imagine Daddy little boy could rite (I know it’s a stretch, but go along with me here) Evertry listeneing to president say somehting important to all the queer welfare queens at Americaland. He probably write like Jonthenet.
Jonthenet -
It is Hebrew/Egyptian history that was hijacked by Rome, in which Constantine plucked out only those elements suited best to his aspirations of empire, and to his epithet, Sol In Victus, seating the Roman Pontiff upon a throne of fabrication. As the Templar’s were to later discover, to their own detriment and demise, it was upon the character of ‘John the Baptist’ which the Roman fabrication was woven onto. The trail of blood this creature of Rome has left in its wake spills rivers from the pages of history books.
Please read: Michael Baigent’s - The Inquisition.
The biblical story is a Roman fabrication, a mythologized version of an event, the people of Israel (Semitic Egyptians) wished to distance themselves from, the slaying of their 18th Dynasty anointed King, Tuthankhmen, a tragic event that left an enormous psychological scar.
Please read: Ahmed Osman - The House of the Messiah.
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
The religious farce is upon us as a dry drunk could only tell it to us. Its too bad all the country wants to believe it could save us, by sending us all to hell. Its a religious brainwashing, of the people, to say, “us upper religious folk know better than you who need saving”.
New bumper sticker, “In case of rapture this vehicle will be armed.”
Jonthenet -
In 325 CE Constantine, at the Council of Nicaea, married Church and State, whose child was to become the dark ages as Christianity became the state religion as it began to exterminate the Pagans and other heretics.
In 326 the new Christian emperor ordered the execution of his first wife, his son, and his nephew.
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
What did you expect from a nation steeped in the mythology of manifest destiny and American exceptionalism?
I’m with Grandma, “God is on the side with the heaviest artillery” That about sums it up. Oh, and evolution is a massively, incontrovertibly, brilliantly confirmed FACT.
Jonthenet-
God as necessary for morality? Come on. This is Common Dreams, not some dunce site. You shouldn’t run red lights because it’s DANGEROUS! You don’t need God to tell you…do you?
And zeitgeist — et tu? I expected more.
Christians are dumbed-down individuals, and have no sense of history - apart from the limited events that are included in the Bibble.
Me thinks the USA and the planet will have to endure some sort of Inquisition for a few decades until Democracy makes its own slow comeback against the idiocy of religion, and suppresses the notion, again, that the only truth comes from religious faith and religious-based governments are the best capable of humanity.
God is only necessary for morality for weak minded criminals and perverts who are not able to live ethically and morally without the threat of an omniscient god to punish them in the next life.
This has been going on since Ronald Reagan gave the Christian Taliban a voice in the Republican party! Everyone can thank him for the current mess. It has just gotten decidedly worse since George Bush has gotten into office. I firmly believe he is a sick man! I am like the person who said when people start hearing voices. They are packed off to the funny farm and given treatment for their Psychosis! What is really strange about the whole thing. These Christian Extremist’s do not see they have gotten little better than Muslim Extremist’s they rail against daily! They don’t see where the Separation of Church and State has allowed them to exist for century’s and even flourish! The moment that Separation leaves it will be a ‘free for all’ among religious for more power. I wouldn’t make any long range bets the Evangelical’s come out the winner. There are just as many of us Roman Catholic’s who see their religion as bizarre.
“Give me an article where Christians because of Christianity currently kill innocent people”
Start by googling “Northern Ireland Troubles” - Protestants killing Catholics for being Catholic, and Catholics killing other Catholics for not being Catholic enough, and every other variation.
Once again, organized religion is the root of all evil, the opiate of the masses, and the means through which tryrants and self-serving leaders get their dumbed-down subjects to go along with their ruinous policies.
Darwinism is not a religion. Scientists in the main are truth seekers. That there are disagreements and various postulates within the larger world of science is only proof of its openness; science evolves as new information comes to light; religion never does unless forced by overwhelming circumstance and potntial loss of “followers”.
The God I have been reading about in the Bible lets people have FREE WILL. The various commandments: The ten famous ones none of these evangelical politicians can name: Adam and Eve told to be fruitful and multiply. (Nailed that one):
Finally, Jesus gave a new commandment that we should love one another. God has never FORCED anyone to follow these commands like a robot.
Do we love one another by bombing, torture, and extraordinary rendition???
Jesus is not the problem.
People who think they are Jesus, think Jesus gives them special revelations diametrically opposed to previous revelations, want to bring Jesus in on their immoral crimes before and after the fact, and the jerks who listen to these people are the problem.
By their fruits you will know them.
My parents were Baptist Missionaries who later gave that position up for Evangelicals. I learned to read from the King James Revised edition and began having questions very early which lead to severe retribution for my disbelief. They often told me that my Native American Relatives who after learning the “truth”, and still did not believe would go to “HELL” for an “ETERNITY” .
Which reminds me of a thought I had as a child. Just because millions of children believe in Santa every Christmas eve, does not make him a reality.
After adulthood and studies in Comparative Religion the “truth” was revealed.
All religions are mean and ugly when forcefully applied to others. If the evangelical/fundamentalist Christians truly had the faith they claim—-they would simply let “GOD” HANDLE THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, close up the uterus’ of those “abortionists”, and deliver to them the heads of all of the Atheists, and others who do not believe.
Instead, to bolster their own doubts, their history is full of forced conversions and death penalties for disbelievers.
The Muslims have the same bloody history. The Jews cannot escape this same history,since their claim to be the chosen ones” causes them to treat the rest of us like they think they are the chosen one. Israel does not have the right to exist at the expense of the Palestinians simply on the authority of the Old Testament, which has exceptionally dubious origins, as does the New Testament, and the Koran as well.
All of these people have denied the lessons of history—simply stated;without exceptions, Theocracies throughout history have been dismal failures.
If you have never read the “Book of Mormon” you missed out on some great entertainment, and if their claims are true (we know religious people don’t lie) there are 12 million Mormons……who believe a story more ridiculous than a “jolly fat Whiteman who shimmies down chimneys to give free stuff away, every Christmas.
I suggest for those of us who do not believe in a “mean, vindictive, jealous, insecure God”, who according to the believers created the earth (without help from any human hands) but cannot write a “Book” without human help; that we simply do our best to make sure we are the one’s who crawl out of the rubble these weak fools will inevitably create.
I do not believe that the “Lord” will strike me down for my disbelief. If by chance (as remote as a galaxy 1 billion light years away) I am wrong, and the “rapture” occurs (any day now) I will be left behind. But this is fine for me, I do not like sharing the planet with these fools, an eternity in “Heaven” with them would be “Hell” for me.
Don’t you people in the US ever bother to find out what main-stream contemporary Christians believe? Fundamentalist evangelicals are a noisy MINORITY. In the UK we have little or none of the problem you berate. If it was a problem here, I might be with you. Northern Ireland was a last-ditch aberration, always more about politics than religion. There is now much reason for optimism in that snall province.
I write as a 64-year-old Catholic Christian pacifist socialist, in full communion with my Church. I read your comments with increasing despair - or I would have done were I not a Christian, which precludes me from abandoning hope!!!
I have seldom read so much sustained bigotry in one blog. Please extend us the courtesy of finding out what genuine mainstream Christians really believe and practice, and lay your bitter hatred aside.
There is another way of looking at it. For me there is no conflict between science and spirit. Of course evolution is true - it’s obvious. But how can you deny the existence of something beyond simple matter? Anyone who has done serious spiritual work will have had many brushes with that mysterious intelligent consciousness that cannot be explained in material terms and yet the experience itself cannot be denied.
Here is an excellent article that presents another way of looking at it.
http://www.resurgence.org/2007/chopra242.htm
North Ireland’s problems may have been more about politics than religion, but when religion reared its ugly head Christians killed one another and rationalized it in their one god’s name. To deny the religious overtones of that conflict is to be blinded by religion.
Those claiming mainstream Christianity is not a problem are missing the point - as long as there are fundamental extremists Christianity will be a problem. And there will always be extremists - organized religion fosters and leads to fundamentalist thinking. Islam is no different. Apologists claim it’s a peaceful religion but some of its followers kill in its name. No religion, no killers for god. As long as fundamentalist Christianity is active in influencing the US government I will hold all Christians accountable. My Catholic friends all voted for Bush twice because he’s anti-abortion. Lies, killings, wars, lack of gray matter, failures from Iraq to New Orleans - all were ignored because Bush is anti-abortion. Mainstream Christians are too often Bush enablers, following their faith over their intelligence, their belief over our reality. Thus Mainstream Christianity is one of our biggest problems.
If everyone acted as forgiving as Jesus there would be no conflict. But petty people claiming to speak for Jesus, or Mohammed, or whoever, are the problem; ORGANIZED religion is the problem and will always be so long as it claims WE are better than THEY. So long as you can believe in one myth, you can believe in any myth. Faith is a false virtue.
My belief is that the rapture has already occurred, probably around the millenium when the true believers said it would. All those worthy have been called home already. The rest of us have been left behind in hell.
Alors! The Air Force Academy story happened at least 4 years ago and after investigations and restructuring, is now a somewhat different place re so-called “Christian” bigotry. Those who know something newer set me straight.
You’d have to know a bit more about Christianity to know that all Christians are not nuts. There’s an element that preys on people and tries to convince them in religious terminology to believe “self serving” things. People who are familiar with the Bible might call them “false prophets.”
I’m depressed so many in this forum are so uninformed in general subject matter and filled with prejudice against things they don’t really understand.
The term Christ is from the Greek - Kristos, both having their original roots in the Egyptian/Aramaic/Hebrew – Meshiahc - from where the word Messiah is derived. It simply meant the anointed king, who in distant Egyptian times was anointed with crocodile fat; MeSSeH being the Egyptian word for crocodile. This practice was taken out of Egypt, and continued by Akhenaten/Moses, whose high priest - Phanehesy (Phinehas) - rejected and slew their anointed king – Tutankhamen - at the foot of Sinai. Traumatized by this deed, they hid from it, only later to fall into the bondage of a mythologized Roman fabrication of this tragedy. There were many anointed kings.
Mother earth and father sky were/are the shadow of God…and still are. In Pharaohnic times, the sole purpose for which the anointed king lived was to maintain Maat.
Peace, Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
zeitgeist- as wcdevins says very well:
‘Darwinism is not a religion. Scientists in the main are truth seekers. That there are disagreements and various postulates within the larger world of science is only proof of its openness; science evolves as new information comes to light; religion never does unless forced by overwhelming circumstance and potential loss of “followers”.’
Very true - and the overwhelming circumstance doesn’t have to be all that overwhelming - a weeping statue or a piece of burnt toast will call any wandering (ie, thinking) questioners back into the fold again.
Meanwhile, scientists go on their way, searching for the answers to the new questions that always arise when an answer is found. Fact is, science is more interesting than religion, because there’s always something more to find out. Religion says it already knows all the answers. Science knows better and makes no such claims.
I’ll read the book you recommend if I can find it, but I doubt that the author discredits the reality of evolution.
Comanche:
“mean, vindictive, jealous, insecure God”, who according to the believers created the earth (without help from any human hands) but cannot write a “Book” without human help;
Brilliant! I registered just to say thank you for that line which made me laugh out loud! But, while I’m here, I might as well shove my tuppence in. God, and the Devil are human constructs. Somewhere along our evolutionary path human consciousness developed, the ability to think abstractly and to contemplate both our separateness and our inevitable demise. The ego developed to drive us on, it turned us into solipsists leaving us practically incapable of imagining a universe without us at the centre of it. How can I die? I’m so important! That’s the ego doing it’s job.
So how to deal with the inevitability of our own death? As our brain developed, the frontal lobes, where the higher functions occur, evolved, including one particular frontal lobe where we experience ‘religion’. One specific, small part of the brain is where it all takes place, and intriguingly, it is stimulated when exposed to a strong magnetic field, which may explain why certain places on the Earth’s surface are considered sacred, because in those places the magnetic field is particularly strong.
Pre current epoch ‘religion’ was rooted in the reality of our existence, the rivers, the mountains, the trees, the soil, the wind, the clouds, the eagles and the butterflies. The God and the Goddess, the life force swirling all around and through us. Hinduism emerged out of the mists, and although no expert, my understanding of the Hindu pantheon is that each deity is a representation of an aspect of the human condition, it attempts to explain to us what we are. Soon after in China the way of the Tao was perceived, the ineffable, the intangible, the unknowable. The Name that can be named is not the Name. Peaceful, harmonious, spiritual. Oneness.
Where this became corrupted, I believe, was with the invention of monotheism, the concept of one single male God. This is blasphemy. If God is male, then he is a corporeal, sexual, evolved being, no more than some flesh and blood super-man, replete with all of man’s weaknesses and failings. In the hands of man, this new non-god (be he Jahweh, God or Allah) has been used to justify every evil act imaginable, sitting happily at the shoulder of every greedy amoral despot, and benignly presiding over every ‘holy’ slaughter. The god of hate, the god of war, the god of destruction. Not God in other words.
It is a fact, that despite having lived most of my life in a nominally Christian country, I have yet to meet a Christian who has anything to offer spiritually. Some nice, kind people sure, but nothing spiritual, no insight, no profundity, which leads me to the conclusion that one objective of Christianity’s fabricators (see various posts above) was to keep people away from the light, to separate, to keep them frightened and ignorant so they can be more easily controlled and manipulated. Contrarily, when in India I met some wonderful, amazing people. Men who in their fifties abandoned the material comforts of home and family to spend their remaining years on pilgrimage, with a dhoti, some sandals and a bowl as their only material possessions, a life devoted to seeking spiritual purity. Love and joy pours forth from such people, just enjoying their company for a while is to bathe in the light. Similarly I’ve met some Buddhist monks that I wanted to go up to and just hug, such was the palpable beauty of their spirit.
Just a thought to finish. The Judeo-Christian god, we are told, just willed the hundred billion galaxies that we know about into existence. If this is true, how are we supposed to comprehend that? How dare we kid ourselves, that in the space of a few solar orbits, with our twelve pound lump of grey flesh and 1.4% genetic variance from chimpanzees we could possibly even begin to understand that? The biggest thing in the universe is surely the human ego.
Grandma: Thanks for the support. For “overwhelming circumstances” I was thinking more along the lines of the church ultimately admitting Galileo and Copernicus were right, or at least, not worth arguing about. The fact that fundamentalists are still espousing drivel the church long ago disavowed may in fact be where evolution falls apart! They are driving backwards though science and time.
Darwin was a divinity student once, and was on the “Beagle” expeditions to gather evidence in support of the book of Genesis. The real world opened his eyes. Steno, the first to theorize that seashell fossils on mountaintops weren’t decorations put there by god, but that the mountaintops were at one time sea floors, was a Catholic priest and cardinal. This partly came about because knowledge and education was a province of the church in past ages.
It’s interesting to me how born-again fundamentalists like Dubya, who normally consider Catholics followers of Satan, are so eager to get into bed with them to serve their own purposes - witness judges Roberts and Alito. They could never have slipped a Pat Buchanan/Oral Roberts disciple past us, but a couple of good Catholics, satanists though they may be in their eyes, serve their purpose as guaranteed anti-abortionists.
I grew up Catholic and can say that not all of them have suckered for the Bush lies. My mother and her brothers & sisters, loyal and practicing Catholics all, cannot believe that anyone would vote for an idiot like W. They are able to separate their religion from their government - we need more like them.
Surprised at how popular this issue is - still getting new comments! and everybody seems to be very civil (save one - the same one) and considerate.
My dad was a Christian atheist - he adhered to the philosophy of the mythological Jesus Christ and read the Xtian bible, but his dad taught Buddhist philosophy. Dad also said that religion is the root of all evil, and showed us where it says that public prayer is condemned in the King James book (there are several examples, I guess). Of course, these are all just morality plays - mythology is a social construct used to transfer social/philisophical rules from generation to generation among roving illiterate tribes. And all the Abrahamic cults co-opted earlier polytheist rituals.
Americans seem to have no common mythology, but then they invaded and exterminated the indigenous population so haven’t had time to develop their own mythology. Personally, I liked the Viking gods best, although I enjoyed the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian stories as a kid and Native creation-stories when I got older. Fascinating stuff!
For a long time I thought everybody knew that mythology was just fairy-tales for grown-ups and obviously wasn’t reality-based. My dad told us peasants didn’t know any better (superstitious) and thought gods were real - and the US was settled by wave after wave of ignorant illiterate peasants, so I guess it shouldn’t be surprising that these nutty fundies are so pervasive (like 25 million of them!) - and they are rather prolific as well, since post-WWII prosperity allowed their children to survive in previously unimaginable numbers. Maybe this is just a bump in the road then - if they don’t incinerate the planet in their vicious wars (that pissing-contest over who has the best imaginary friend a la Carlin - thanks Spike)
This is indeed a typical fascist stage - after all, Abrahamic sects were savagely despotic so fit right in with modern fascism. It’s interesting how Xtian church leaders in Latin America fought for the Left though - and were disavowed by Rome, of course. Catholic history is interesting - a cross between porn and soap operas. No wonder Luther had a fit! (But he was a bit too far on the fundie side too) It’s all about politics at the top.
” organized religion fosters and leads to fundamentalist thinking”
(wcdevins??)
i think it is the reverse: fundamentalist thinking leads to organized religion.
most of us are stuck in fear and try to find a way out.
should one despair that the fundamentalists seem to have taken over or be hopeful that there are so many who see through them?
grandma May 4th, 2007 4:53 pm -
‘Darwinism is not a religion’
It is so!
It has become equally Dogmatized, anomalies are simply swept under the rug so as not to step on the toes of ego based Consensual Science that might shatter the invested illusion. As we all should know by now, in the sphere of ego, Dogma is worshiped as god and heretics are burned at the stake!
Newton was an Alchemist, but the Church of the Physical Scientist, buried that side of the foundation.
Peace, Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
armybrat May 5th, 2007 2:46 am
***after all, Abrahamic sects were savagely despotic***
The lineage of Israel was not through Abraham, but through his wife Sarah.
(Along with the following, please read my earlier posts also)
When Abraham and his wife Sarah paid a visit to Pharaoh Tuthmosis III, (Throne Name Menkhper-Ra), the product of Sarah’s liaison with Tuthmosis was Isaac. Abraham in his discovery of this infraction raised his hand in desire to slay Isaac, until the lord, Pharaoh, stayed his hand. From Isaac came Jacob – who changed his name to Israel; Abraham’s true son was Ishmael, through Hagor.
Later, it is through Israel’s son, Joseph and Joseph’s daughter’s marriage to Amenhotep III, that Akhenaton/Moses emerges.
Others elsewhere bear out the name Israel as that of the conjoined god-name-metaphors from that time as (Isis-Ra-Elohim), brought together in Isaac.
Osman has done some incredible work in ferreting this out, through his meticulous comparison of both Hebrew and Egyptian epic events and histories.
This then is the scarlet thread that weaves though time, the entire region of today, on through the Roman fabrication and its current creature.
References: Ahmed Osman – Stranger In The Valley Of The Kings also, The House Of Messiah
Peace, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
writer2 said: “I think it is the reverse: fundamentalist thinking leads to organized religion.”
True either way. I was not speaking historically, but presently; following a religion, not founding one. Joining organized religion may lead you to further fundamentality after you hear the word - blowing up infidels for 72 virgins, blowing up abortion clinics because your church is pro-life, blowing away your fellow Catholic because he dated a Protestant - you know how it goes.
We are all afraid, and the Bush administration shamelessly used that fear to move their imperial agenda forward. Using religion as a partner was a natural - the fear and blind faith were already there, waiting to be harnessed. We can hope enlightened people everywhere will eventually stand up to the fundamentalists of all stripes. Until then, it’s an emotional balancing act for all of us.
Organized religion and fundamentalist thinking are not causes of each other. Fundamentalist thinking (if you mean black/white, xenophobia us-against-them kind of thinking) is caused by fear and the human desire to separate into opposing groups - most people need a “them” to be motivated to protect “us.” This is neither caused by religion nor does it cause it. Religion comes in when fundamentalists need a more savory justification for their feelings.
I am not a fan of religion. I like to think I can see through why people believe it. But, I think we should be careful not to attribute all of the nasty things that come from fundamentalist thinking to all religions and religious people. They are not all alike.
In sum, religion is not the cause of all evil, but rather is a common justification for it. It is also used to justify good acts.
Most organized religions seem to have a built in US vs THEM attitude in that only its followers are chosen. Not all members of religions groups “go fundamental”, but the seeds are surely there. Whether religion plants these seeds or offers them a sheltered place to grow is moot; they are intrinsically tied.
Fundamentalist “thinking” to my mind is belief in only the words in a certain book, and only the words of certain preachers. It endows the believer with the mantle of a god, because he is merely following his god’s word when he kills. It allows the believer to overlook science and rational thought, because at the heart of all religions is a creation myth or some other “miracle” that must be swallowed by the true believer. And like most large corporate entities with land and property to hoard, organized religion is notoriously bad at regulating itself.
Of course, not all religious people are fundamentalists, but religion enables and often encourages such thinking. And when that thinking blows up my country’s buildings, takes away my wife’s rights, and becomes an excuse to vote for idiots to run my country, then organized religion is a problem for us all.
wcdevins May 5th, 2007 5:17 pm
***And when that thinking blows up my country’s buildings, takes away my wife’s rights, and becomes an excuse to vote for idiots to run my country, then organized religion is a problem for us all.***
Yes indeed! The term is ‘Blowback’.
The so called radical element, they are what we reflect, a product and reflection for our decades of predation, the propping up and support of dictators that support our exploits, until time morphs the exploited into the radicalism of ‘Blowback’.
As another poster elsewhere has already commentated on this.
The US and/or the UK have been involved covertly in the territories of the Middle East to Afghanistan for generations.
When the US is targeted by some group we feel that they are terrorists and are not justified in their actions. The term “Blowback” is defined as “unintended consequences of covert operations” and “the event appears as a surprise”. Since the American public is not aware of what was done covertly, of course, the action comes across as a terrorist event for no apparent reason at all.
Such are the consequences of predation and exploitation in the hands of secretive governments.
Maat, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
wcdevins
I just went back and read all your posts and I’m on-board with all of it except the conclusion that “[o]rganized religion is the root of all evil.” I see, however, you did not mean this phrase to stand alone as you later mention cause and effect are moot because they are “instrincially tied.”
Still, I think human instincts (fear, us vs. them) are that “root,” and anti-intellectualism leaves those insticts unchecked. Religion fosters that anti-intellectualism, as you well said above. Thus, I think religion is more a reflection of human nature, not a true cause of behavior (although it helps perpetuate it). If we are to stop fundamentalist religious thinking (as you defined it) we are better served addressing the ignorance that fuels religion, rather than attacking the institutions themselves. If religious people learn through science and other disciplines, their religious institutions will lose control over them.
Thanks for the good posts.
maybe all that needs to be said has been, in case anybody is still reading, esp. wcdevin: i also did not mean it historically when i ssaid fundamentalist thinking leads to organized religion.
i think it is in every new “incarnation” of fear, i.e. in every new human being living with fear that the response can be “fundamentalist thinking” which then is translated into organized fundamentalist religion.
but i think that organized religion exists for two reasons, one is as a haven and support for fundamentalist fearfulness and the other is that people through the ages have had extraordinary “religious” experiences of love and unity and organizations have been built around them to teach this love (which somehow degenerates into fundamentalist fearfulness, hatefulness)
writer2, fear is the motivator, as you say. Correctivelens also hit the solution on the head - real education, both here and in the Muslim world, is the long-term answer.
I’m probably the only one left here, but thanks to all for the discussion.
The Christians have found able allies in all the pro-Israeli Jews in the US, Canada and UK. Israel is an abomination based on zionism, which, in its own way, is as elusive of definitional capture as fascism. But surely religion and racialist religion is mixed up in the ideological apocalypse.
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“ORGANIZED CHRISTIANITY”
The World’s Greatest Prostitution (Cover-up)
“This is the most subtle, engulfing, suffocating, living and breathing organism ever conceived that has interwoven and intertwined throughout man’s history and conscience; purposely “designed” to deceive every man, woman and child on planet Earth.” ….. AvenueOfLight
John Daniel, author of the book: The Grand Design Exposed has written a 22-page booklet entitled “Organized Christianity’s Prostitution Cover-up”. This booklet lays bare the facts:
· How the organized “Christian” Church “cut a deal” with the Roman Emperor Constantine, and thus became the official State religion of the Roman Empire;
· How this organized Church (i.e., the Roman Catholic Church) assumed the “mantle” of the Roman Pontifex Maximus when the Roman Empire fell, and began to persecute true Christians – wiping out hundreds and hundreds of thousands of them through the “Holy Inquisition”, crusades, and every genocide ever made against man.
· How this organized Church will soon reach the pinnacles or power she once held in Europe when her popes ruled over kings, and will once again launch yet another episode of murdering any and all who dare question her “right” to rule this planet!
This booklet shows the reader how the early Christians were persecuted by the pagan Roman emperors until Emperor Constantine and Bishop Eusebius obviously “cut a deal’ in order to make “Organized Christianity” (i.e., Roman Catholicism) the State religion. The few true Christians who survived the various anti-Christian persecutions had gone “underground” or had fled to mountains and wilderness areas. This left a paganized “Christian” organization, now called Roman Catholicism, as a “pretender” claiming to be the one, true Church of Jesus Christ,. And when the Roman Empire fell, the Roman Catholic Church moved into the power vacuum, and basically assumed all the titles and power of the Roman Emperor, the Pontifex Maximus! As John Daniel (www.vaticandesignedexposed.com) tells us in this informative booklet:
“But the ‘Christian’ Roman popes did more than just ‘Hi-Jack’ the Roman Emperor’s Imperial titles. They also imbued the Roman Emperor’s ‘spirit’ of power absolute into the very depths of their being and soul. The idea of stamping out all controversy and division, stamping out all thought, by imposing – unquestioned – “ONE” dogmatic creed upon all, was carried into practice on an unprecedented scale.
…So it is not surprising, when the ‘Christian’ Roman popes ruled full sway during the medieval years, to read accounts of inhuman cruelties, atrocities, and abominations during the crusades, and the methodical butchering, breaking, and mutilating of human bodies done in the torture chambers of the [so-called ‘Holy’] Inquisition…
The Roman Catholic Church ruled the European world for 1260 years with an iron fist. During those years the Holy Word of God, the Bible, was a forbidden book…”
The Roman Catholic Church is once again putting into practice her “Great Power” and her Inquisitional ways. Just look around you! How is she going to accomplish this? To find out, you can order this booklet AND free DVD: “EXPOSING LUCIFER WORSHIPERS” (Plotting Soon World Takeover)
“Avenue of Light”.
P.O. Box 74 – Floral City, FL 34436.
352 726 8952
Please visit our other website of 5 chapters of the bible clearly explaining the beast, antichrist, false prophet, and the 8 heads according to the Holy Word Of God.
http://www.VaticanDesignExposed.com
The FULFILLMENT OF PROPHECY !
Greetings in Christ Jesus;
Dear Blessed of The Lord… Where will you stand in that day before the Heavenly Host and Eternity? For Christ; The Truth, His Testimony and Eternal Sacrifice… OR for the lie and Eternal Death?
The Scriptures clearly state we will definitely go through the tribulation which is a literal (1260) days; (forty and two months); (time = (1 year), times = (two years) and the dividing of time = (6 months) equals (three and a half years); this is an allegory of the little horn power in Daniel which was 1260 years. This is the Lord’s Plan for us… A servant is “NOT” above His Master…This He says is why He has told us these things that they come not upon us unaware! For to the unsuspecting world it shall come upon them as did the flood; unbelieving and unaware; doubtful and destroyed! For who shall He (The Lord) come as a thief in the night, but to those that are sleeping, certainly not to us who await His return!
Some of us will testify before the world courts probably televised, for our Testimony and Witness against them..! As Martial Law is instituted; with no food, water, shelter; ALL COMFORTS GONE and being hunted (persecuted) like dogs (the love of many shall wax cold) seeking to save their lives and having forsaken The Lord Of Glory, the people of the world will go mad and stop at nothing to sustain their lives and death shall abound. All this being under the hand of the (United States GOVERNMENT) through the C.I.A.; openly AND knowingly; being the (False Prophet of Revelation) (13:11-18), having been ‘SET-UP’ by the Vatican under the Jesuit Order; utterly forcing the world to worship the “ANTICHRIST” Pope. But, know this fact: If you refuse you shall have eternal life! The second greatest promise ever given to man! The first was Jesus Christ.
However; it is at this same time that many shall awaken out of sleep to what is really occurring by the “great light” (message) from the angel (messenger)// which will be poured out in these very end days soon to pass, and many through the seeds we have planted will repent; but they shall be few in comparison to the world’s population. Those on the fence struggling Will HAVE To … make the decision whether to get on the ark (Kingdom Of God) by FAITH; (as in the days of Noah) rejecting the lie they promise and making a stand for the Truth OR Rejecting The Lord and HIS Testimony!…It will be during this time with such horrific and unimaginable atrocities taking place upon the earth which our minds will be able to barely grasp even having read “America Betrayed”, and understanding the Inquisition. But I tell you this: It will in Truth be a blessing to be asleep when the Lord comes as to “not” have to go through this tribulation for it will be worse than it ever has or ever will be again.
At this time through Project:”Blue Beam” we fully believe the miracles declared in Revelation 13 will include the (virgin mother) appearing (unto the whole world)….and declaring the ‘ONLY’ reconciliation unto the FATHER will be the falsehood of the setting up of the AntiChrist Pope as the religious, political leader; to be (god on earth) in the flesh to the UNsuspecting world…(The pope) will then set up his counterfeit, Kingdom of Jesus Christ in God’s Holy City (Jerusalem). Matthew 24:15-22// Daniel 11:45
(The abomination that maketh desolate)…
The pope will be ushered in and glorified as the Messiah of the world; Saviour of mankind, eliminator of all man’s problems, forgiver of sins, immortal, eternal and declared the “prince of peace” for he will offer total sanctuary, refuge, safety and eternal life (Peace and Safety) to every human being on the planet if they will worship him; thus denying Our Lord Jesus Christ by obeying his laws and honoring lucifer’s venerable “Day Of The Sun” (SUN)-DAY, The false Sabbath; the first day of the week. Haven’t you ever wondered why if it was the true Sabbath and the day that God declared Holy and sanctified; why is it called AND spelled: “SUN”-DAY rather than “SON”-DAY or SON’S- DAY? Coincidence or by design? This being a great part of satan’s 6000 year plan thus breaking God’s fourth commandment! Instead of worshiping the Lord in Spirit and in “Truth by keeping the (seventh-day)-Sabbath (Saturday) Holy; issued at creation also causing the breaking of the first commandment.
Dear friend our “only” hope rests is knowing that at the fulfillment of this prophecy; The Lord Jesus Christ is about to appear “Gloriously visible to the whole world” (in theclouds); “not” a secret rapture and most definitely “not” in Jerusalem! Pay great and close attention to these words! And by using “fear” instilled in the minds of every human being for what’s going on in the world they (most) will comply….And “all” the world worshiped the beast (rome)… But they will have been deceived into buying the greatest lie satan has ever pronounced and by doing so they shall receive damnation (Eternal Death) and thus be destroyed at Christ’s coming…The dead know not anything! They shall be ashes under the saint’s feet! Not everlasting eternal torment but dead! Totally separated from the Living God forever forgotten!
We must prepare our minds being totally in submission by faith…(In Christ)….and pray continually for faith increased, courage, and strength from above, that we endure till the end! All things are totally in God’s hand, and His will is being done and the Fulfillment of the Holy Scriptures and the Prophecies therein. Pray that He lose not one of us.. Our God, The Sovereign God of the Universe and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ is Faithful and True as are His Words and Promises….The (just) shall “LIVE” by faith; which is only possible through God’s SON; (THE LORD JESUS CHRIST). For HE “alone” paid the debt for every human being ON THIS PLANET and this was the “only” way acceptable unto THE FATHER by THE SACRIFICE OF HIS “ONLY” BEGOTTEN SON .
Can you or I really fathom what eternal sacrifice was made on our behalf or the love that God has for us? (Abraham being a foreshadow of Christ’s atonement); the magnitude of this offering by Our CREATOR (Jesus Christ) is very overwhelming!
May the “Only” Wise GOD Bless you with Heavenly wisdom, strength and understanding during these dreadful and terrible times we are about to face as these things clearly manifest themselves openly to the world and that you come to the knowledge of the Truth in Jesus Christ, by HIS WORD and by the Holy Spirit. Asking and ending “all” prayers “IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST”! This for He came!
www.Xanga.com/Avenueoflight
Avenue of Light/ P.O. Box 74/ Floral City, FL 34436
352-726-8952
http://www.xanga.com/Avenueoflight
Da Vinci Code “Holy Bloodline” Hoax!
The planned events are clearly layed out in 3 books of which Dan Brown’s “The Da Vinci Code” is the latest sequel … Just as Scripture teaches. Matthew 24:15-22… Daniel 11:45…Daniel 12:12
1) Holy Blood, Holy Grail
2) Messianic Legacy: states openly that the Merovingian bloodline”Cannot” be traced back to Christ! Although they are//will claim it’s authenticity!
3) Da Vinci Code :This is how the whole world will be deceived; this book denies Christ’s deity; stating Christ was neither Divine nor the Son Of God; it also denies The Word; being as they put it a “product of man” (lacking the GIFT of faith)… but openly this final sequel fully discloses their long planned agenda against man(Novus Ordo Seclorum). It “IS” worth your time to get these 3 books and “SEE” for yourself….
After the cataclysmic event of Rev. 8 and
“After” not before.. the Pope is set up in Jerusalem.. The whole world begging for mercy;(Peace and Safety)…. It will then be “declared” and eagerly “embraced” that the “(Declared religion)” “Must” be worshipped having SET-UP their Da Vinci Code “holy bloodline” antichrist “FALSE MESSIAH” Pontifex Maximus dictator pope in Jerusalem… He will then be declared a “Direct Descendant” of Jesus Christ from the House Of David…….The abomination that maketh desolate…. Those who have ears, let him hear…
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