Sioux Rose

Struggle: Is that you Martian Bachelor and/or Nebraska Nathan? What is Medieval is the authoritarian mindset that wants to castigate any who look at life from a wider perspective than left and right. That means YOU. And I am far from politically clueless. This site, for one, has informed my judgment and expanded it in things of this world. The better to understand the "As above, so below" Divine equation.

And screw you.

Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."

Struggle March, are you claiming that the current left/right paradigm has honestly or effectively addressed the top five problems confronting humanity? I know Sioux Rose's opinions on politics and she is very well informed and open minded.

Let me quibble about your "Perhaps the best way..." passage if I might. Strike the "perhaps" and you have it right; it's the only way, in fact.

Since 1964 I have argued for what you describe so succinctly. I came to the direct democracy position via a job as computer programmer that involved a very early system to transmit data over phone lines. On the way home one evening I realized the data could just as easily be votes as payroll input, and asked myself, "What do we need the Congress for?"

So I welcome your addition to the cause; that makes two of us.

One more quibble, though. Since votes would be counted by many small computers, probably one in each precinct, there would be a lot of parallel processing, which means that scale no longer makes any important difference. We could poll the planet in 30 seconds. So we might as well aim for the national scale right from the start without regard to population.

Now if we could enlist a few million more people...

Wanna write a book? You write a lot better than I do.

"There is no such animal as a libertarian opposed to capitalism."

The term libertarian has ALWAYS been associated with anarchist movements and ideas... EXCEPT in the USA. European anarchists were using the term, libertarian, to describe themselves nearly a hundred years ago.

The US based 'libertarian' Party has only existed since the early 1970's. For whatever their reason... they chose to hijack the word.

Chomsky considers himself a libertarian-socialist.

"QUESTION: People have characterized your political beliefs over the years as "anarchist" or "libertarian." I don't think the labels are necessarily important, but what is the basic philosophy behind your political beliefs?

CHOMSKY: Let me just say regarding the terminology, since we happen to be in the United States, we have to be rather careful. Libertarian in the United States has a meaning which is almost the opposite of what it has in the rest of the world traditionally. Here, libertarian means ultra right-wing capitalist. In the European tradition, libertarian meant socialist. So, anarchism was sometimes called libertarian socialism, a large wing of anarchism, so we have to be a little careful about terminology..."

You are actually factually wrong Noam Chomsky calls himself a libertarian socialist which means he wants the minimum amount of government necessary to assure social justice.

http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/chomsky.html

IWW members were Libertarian socialists too,

http://www.spunk.org/texts/intro/sp001631.html

just because the right has co-opted the term libertarian to mean the pro "free" market Libertarian party doesn't mean that libertarian socialists don't exist.

Care to try again?

I see mark makes the same point, good for him.

"There is no such animal as a libertarian opposed to capitalism."
"There is also no such animal as an anti-authoritarian doctrinal socialist"

Well metal, I think both these statements you made are wrong. Ever heard of Noam Chomsky, a noted libertarian socialist?

Libertarian socialism is a philosophy with diverse interpretations, though some general commonalities can be found in its many incarnations. Its proponents generally advocate a worker-oriented system of distribution that radically departs from conventional capitalist economics (socialism).[15] They propose that this economic system be executed in a manner that attempts to maximize the liberty of individuals and minimize concentration of power or authority (libertarianism). Libertarian socialists are strongly critical of coercive institutions, which often leads them to reject the legitimacy of the state in favor of anarchism.[16] Adherents propose achieving this through decentralization of political and economic power, usually involving the socialization of most large-scale property and enterprise. Libertarian socialism tends to deny the legitimacy of most forms of economically significant private property, viewing capitalist property relations as forms of domination that are antagonistic to individual freedom.[17]

Noam Chomsky, a noted libertarian socialist.
The first person to describe himself as a libertarian was Joseph Déjacque, an early French anarchist communist. The word stems from the French word libertaire, and was used to evade the French ban on anarchist publications.[18] In the context of the European socialist movement, libertarian has conventionally been used to describe those who opposed state socialism, such as Mikhail Bakunin. In the United States, the movement most commonly called libertarianism follows a capitalist philosophy; the term libertarian socialism therefore strikes many Americans as a contradiction in terms. However, the association of socialism with libertarianism predates that of capitalism, and many anti-authoritarians still decry what they see as a mistaken association of capitalism with libertarianism in the United States.[19] As Noam Chomsky put it, a consistent libertarian "must oppose private ownership of the means of production and the wage slavery which is a component of this system, as incompatible with the principle that labor must be freely undertaken and under the control of the producer."[20]
In a chapter recounting the history of libertarian socialism, economist Robin Hahnel relates that thus far the period where libertarian socialism has had its greatest impact was at the end of the 19th century through the first four decades of the twentieth century.
"Early in the twentieth century, libertarian socialism was as powerful a force as social democracy and communism. The Libertarian International– founded at the Congress of Saint Imier a few days after the split between Marxist and libertarians at the congress of the Socialist International held in The Hague in 1872– competed successfully against social democrats and communists alike for the loyalty of anticapitalist activists, revolutionaries, workers, unions and political parties for over fifty years. Libertarian socialists played a major role in the Russian revolutions of 1905 and 1917. Libertarian socialists played a dominant role in the Mexican Revolution of 1911. Twenty years after World War I was over, libertarian socialists were still strong enough to spearhead the social revolution that swept across Republican Spain in 1936 and 1937."[21]
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See also: Anti-capitalism
Libertarian socialists assert that when power is exercised, as exemplified by the economic, social, or physical dominance of one individual over another, the burden of proof is always on the authoritarian to justify their action as legitimate when taken against its effect of narrowing the scope of human freedom.[22] Typical examples of legitimate exercise of power would include the use of physical force to rescue someone from being injured by an oncoming vehicle, or self-defense. Libertarian socialists typically oppose rigid and stratified structures of authority, be they political, economic, or social.[23]
Libertarian socialists believe that all social bonds should be developed by individuals who have an equal amount of bargaining power, that an accumulation of economic power in the hands of a few and the centralization of political power both reduce the bargaining power—and thus the liberty of the other individuals in society.[24] To put it another way, capitalist (and right-libertarian) principles concentrate economic power in the hands of those who own the most capital. Libertarian socialism aims to distribute power, and thus freedom, more equally amongst members of society. A key difference between libertarian socialism and free-market libertarianism is that advocates of the former generally believe that one's degree of freedom is affected by one's economic and social status, whereas advocates of the latter focus on freedom of choice. This is sometimes characterized as a desire to maximize "free creativity" in a society in preference to "free enterprise."[25]
Libertarian socialists believe if freedom is valued, then society must work towards a system in which individuals have the power to decide economic issues along with political issues. Libertarian socialists seek to replace unjustified authority with direct democracy, voluntary federation, and popular autonomy in all aspects of life,[26] including physical communities and economic enterprises.
Many libertarian socialists argue that large-scale voluntary associations should manage industrial manufacture, while workers retain rights to the individual products of their labor.[27] As such, they see a distinction between the concepts of "private property" and "personal possession". Whereas "private property" grants an individual exclusive control over a thing whether it is in use or not, and regardless of its productive capacity, "possession" grants no rights to things that are not in use.[28]. UNQUOTE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

I think at this stage in our failed "Mafia-Capitalism" that we are experiencing in the US, all of us should become Libertarian Socialists or Left-Libertarians.

TJ

Clap, clap, clap. You tell 'em!

Read the same article on CD . He calls Dims wusses but does not call for third party.

He says nothing definite either way.

Whereas this above article states Obomber just needs a Moore progressive henchman.

Emanuels brother Ari please, another Zionist in the White House?