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The Nighmare Of Coat Hangers Revisited
Wouldn't you know it- while we silly feminists have been agonizing
about the impact of the Stupak Amendment after Nancy and the Cardinals
did the C Street Shuffle at the Saturday Night Congressional Jerk I
mean Dance Off it turns out that if we really want to keep our
reproductive rights, all we need to do is get a job at the RNC or the anti-choice group Focus on the Family cuz their health plans cover, wait for it, ABORTION. Really.
I don't even know why this surprises me. The entire health care debate without end has been one long-winded exercise in stupid. From the get go the sad thing is that what passes as discourse has suffered from the same malady as the abortion issue-a deeply flawed frame. In the case of abortion, the minute the word ‘choice' and the phrase ‘pro-life' became the descriptors, the discussion we should have been having about women's reproductive rights was gone.
In the case of health care we have had all manner of false flag buzzwords-public option, triggers, yada yada everything centered around the cost of premiums totally losing sight of the fact that health care is a human right, not a commodity that needs to be delivered in a way that keeps pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies afloat so they will keep funding our elected representatives. Our health care system is ill, it is a disgrace and it is an affront to human decency. Ditto our Congress who, with very few exceptions have apparently had frontal lobotomies and seem to be suffering from some painful form of spinal disintegration. What part of just fix it could possibly not be clear? The answer of course is apparently the whole damned thing and until we insist that Congress get their little patooties (I leave it to you to decide what part of the anatomy you feel that should describe) pointed in the right direction and back on topic, our health care is going to remain in critical condition.
One of the most galling aspects of the Stupak Amendment is that after months of dithering, pontificating, waffling and other forms of ass covering that pass for political debate these days, Stupak happened in the 11th hour before a Saturday vote leaving reproductive justice advocates doing a lot of WTF-ing. I am still deeply shocked that the Democratic leadership that has been so unable to use its majority position to act decisively could all of a sudden simply decide that women's reproductive rights could just cavalierly be thrown to the Blue Dogs for the sake of the last 3 votes. It is just breathtaking even though it has come to light in recent months that our current system has been shafting women on many health care fronts for quite some time-higher premiums, maternity care, etc. As I noted last week, even high risk state insurance pools have been discrimination against women.
But what is the deal with Pelosi making a last minute concession of this magnitude to the Catholic Church? Wendy Norris sheds some light on why this isn't just a matter of the Catholic Church playing the abortion card on a moral basis, it is also has a huge stake in the financial ramifications of the health care legislation,
The justifiable anger at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops for lobbying on the Stupak-Pitts amendment overshadows what is possibly the bigger motive for the Vatican: the billions of dollars at stake for the church's hospitals.
The scale of the church's involvement in the rapidly growing $2.5 trillion dollar American health care industry is staggering.
Abortion may be safe, it may be legal. But if it isn't affordable, it is de facto not available and that is detrimental to women's health and an unacceptable compromise. For additional commentary on this issue, please also read,
- Joanne Bamberger
- Gloria Feldt
- Katha Pollitt
- Frances Kissling and Kate Michelman
- and ongoing coverage on RH Reality Check
- Posted in
29 Comments so far
Show AllSame old shit, different year. Those evil so-called pro-life bastards are really pro-death. When abortions were legalized, the number of abortions performed hardly changed. The significant figure was the number of women killed by abortions. Before legalization, from 2000 to 5000 American women died annually from illegal abortions. After legalization, the number was cut to about 100 a year. That is a 95% change if we go with the lowest figure (ie., 2000) and 98% if we go with the highest figure. The number of abortions performed has actually dropped relative to the increase in population. THESE SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT ... THEY ARE PURITANICAL SCUM WHO WANT TO SEE WOMEN PUNISHED FOR HAVING SEX!!! As long as religious fanatics continue to have such a great influence on our government, there will never be peace and security for ANYONE!
You need to look behind the scenes to the force behind those "PURITANICAL SCUM WHO WANT TO SEE WOMEN PUNISHED FOR HAVING SEX!!!" He sits in his golden tower in the Vatican, in Rome, and he also owns the majority of justices in our Supreme Court.
Actually, the guy in the Vatican is trying to make sure such women are saved from punishment.
Of course for those who see having a baby as punishment, your views are obviously skewed beyond reality. I have never met a baby that was a punishment.
"THESE SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT ... THEY ARE PURITANICAL SCUM WHO WANT TO SEE WOMEN PUNISHED FOR HAVING SEX!!!"
You aren't going far enough. This is only partially about puritanical religion and sex, and much much more about power.
They are scum who want to turn back the clock a couple hundred years, women kept barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen as sex toys and maids. Go to the right wing sites, like Free Republic etc, and you will occasionally find threads arguing that women should not be allowed to vote, for one example.
Always a solution and a money maker would be,on demand vasectomies.Wallmart could have reversible vasectomy clinics.Go buy groceries,a stitch or two,no more swimming boys,an improved economy,everybody is happy.We can all go back home and work on the warocracy and stopping war and genocide.
DEM's suffering from Bush Company pre-electoral extortions, spread to their entire nervous (nnnnoop!) systems.
A Republican will not fund your abortion, but he will happily sell you all the coathangers you want.
There should be a Hyde type ammendment for funding of any controverisal spending by the Federal government. Many taxpayers do not support oil wars, so there could be an ammendment against any federal funding of THAT.
Cant have taxpayer money going towards things they find morally repugnant!
"Many taxpayers do not support oil wars, so there could be an ammendment against any federal funding of THAT"
mujeriego, I've been waiting so long to see someone say that! I'd add the whole military complex, and the faith-based offices in every department of the government that Bush put in, and Obama expanded first thing after he took office.
Pricing lower and middle income folks from getting an abortion is how anti-choicers (note: they're NOT pro-lifers) will make abortion illegal for many. They know that a full on frontal assault to repeal roe v wade rights will cause a backlash against them. Many moderates that I've talk with that aren't ardent supporters of abortion rights still acknowledge that women should have the choice available to them, even if they themselves would not have one. Instead the anti-choicers will slowly make it harder for women to have access to them so they don't need to repeal anything and still get their desired outcome.
I am waiting for the US government to declare the anti-choice, doctor murdering groups as TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS...
The United States has defined terrorism under the Federal criminal code. 18 U.S.C. §2331[25] defines terrorism as
…activities that involve violent… or life-threatening acts… that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State and… appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping…."
Not to sound like some sort of religious nut or prude or something...
But, unless it's a life-saving procedure, or the result of a rape or other such heinous crime, abortion should not be an option.
A woman's - and man's, for that matter - reproductive 'rights' end the moment she/he decides to roll the dice and have sex, esp. unprotected sex.
All choices come with consequences. Adults are aware of the consequences before making their decision. Just because they pretended to be ignorant and then regretted their choice, that doesn't mean they get a pass on taking responsibility for their actions and behaviors.
Heat-of-the-moment weakness also is not a valid Adult defense for avoiding the consequences of your choices - if you kill someone in the 'heat of the moment,' it's still homicide, understand?
[Not to sound like some sort of religious nut or prude or something...]
But you do sound like a religious nut or prude on this issue anyhow... And judging by your username, I'm not sure you'll ever end up carrying a fetus for nine months which means for you (and me) it's not ever going to be our choice that matters is it?
So, if you're not an adult. Abortion is fine when used for birth control?
Thing is, for the last few years the kids have been taught that birth control doesn't work at all. Life-saving procedure. Who decides what is life saving in your book? The women? the doctor? Some gov't bureaucrat? An insurance agent? The priest? What do you mean by life saving? Getting knocked up as a teen (or as a single young women for that matter, or for the woman who already has a child or three, or for the family that can't feed themselves let alone another mouth) is pretty life destroying, if she keeps the baby, that's a recipee for a lifetime of poverty. If she gives it up that's a life spent wondering what happened to her child. If she aborts, well, that's god's will. (after all if god knows all and has your life planned out for you from the moment you're conceived, then it follows that god planned for all of those abortions to have happened. Predetermination is a bitch, eh?)
[Heat-of-the-moment weakness also is not a valid Adult defense for avoiding the consequences of your choices - if you kill someone in the 'heat of the moment,' it's still homicide, understand?]
Actually up here it's called manslaughter, (or a car accident) and you'll not go to jail for very long (if at all) if you're guilty of that crime.
Mind you there are still consequences for any choice made by people. If you chose to join the army and kill people, you'll have to deal with the memory of those acts; even in a 'justified' war like WWII the vets still don't like to talk about the people they killed, some of them never got over the transition from war to peace...
Don't try to argue that the women who chose to get abortions don't think about the consequences of their actions, they do. Some will dismiss the event as not worth thinking about, most will regret some aspect of the event (that it had to happen, that it couldn't have been otherwise, that they regret regretting it...) At least they're alive, and they didn't have to go thru the experience of their grandmother's generations who would get unsafe abortions, or just commit suicide, or be forced to give up the babies and still be branded a whore for the rest of their lives.
You're awfully heavy on the punishment thing. That is a telling thing about your personality, and it's not particularly positive. And BTW, condoms break. Pills fail. Jellies and creams fail. Things happen, and there are pregnancies that happen regardless of the precautions taken. To then add condemnation on top of accident doesn't help anything.
In fact, it's that kind of attitude that tends to piss off alot of people, because you are putting yourself up as the arbiter of morality and consequences. Who are YOU to punish another ADULT for doing what we as a species are designed to do? And you would punish the child, too, with your actions. Way to have a nice CHRISTIAN attitude towards other's mistakes. Flung any undeserved stones, lately?
And for the record, people like you and me (men, that is), have NO business telling women what they should do in such an instance. You and I will NEVER carry a child, endure a life threatening procedure and have to watch our bodies go to hell because of such a thing. If you had to put up with a little alien growing inside you for 9 months, had it come out the end of your dick and then have it latch to you for the next 20 years, you would feel quite different about it, I'm sure. You have NO business telling ANY woman what she MUST do nor do you have any business punishing anyone for their situation, either. It's NOT your business, it's not your body, and it's not your future.
I'll tell you what, when men start actually taking responsibility for the children they father in this country, THEN they can tell women what they should do with those kids. But with as reprehensible of a record as American men have, we got NO business telling women what to do about it. Damn, how sexist do you want to be?
I've often wondered what would happen if somehow some scientist could work out a method of raising/gestating the fetus outside of the womb. The good thing would be that the abortion debate would be over, the bad thing would be watching the large number of former 'pro-lifers' come up with excuses about how they couldn't possibly afford to take care of all those extra infants. Of course the priests and nuns who'd run the orphanages would be very happy with such a situation...
Actually, the human species was designed to have sex to procreate. Thus, to willfully abort a conceived child is to do what is unnatural.
Based on your argument of ownership of body, then no man should ever be thrown in jail for failure to pay child support or suffer any other consequence. A woman has no business determining what should happen with the body of that unborn boy or girl as that body is not hers. It's not her business as it is not her body or her future -- that body and future belong to the child and is the business of that child.
Our current laws and the unequity that exists between male and female reproductive rights should show just how flawed the current pro-abort stance is.
[Actually, the human species was designed to have sex to procreate.]
Rubbish! There is no evidence that humans were designed at all - let alone the idea that we were 'designed' to procreate - we're the product of a messy history of evolution.
Moreover think about what you're saying will you. Human sexual activity rarely results in pregnancy, most of the time people who shag don't produce a conceived fetus. Even when the fetus is conceived there is a very good chance that the thing will abort spontaneously.
[Our current laws and the unequity that exists between male and female reproductive rights should show just how flawed the current pro-abort stance is.]
Pro choice is not the same thing as 'pro-abort' fundy. You show your priestly robes, Father. I'll repeat what I said above, if a god exists and that god knows all and has planned out our lives from the get go, then all abortions are the will of that god. He's responsible for killing all of those little fetus', and it's not the first time that that Mass-murdering psycho has offed millions of babies is it now?
"All choices come with consequences".What consequences do you speak of;are women who make a choice to do what they wish with their own body going to jail,die at someones hand?What?If you are religious judge not lest you be judged and if I were a lady,any lady,there would be a fight to keep a choice with my own body and if religious take my chances with the Creator and not let any man,woman,religion sway me and even if St. Pete says something tell him to kiss it too and say you want to talk to the Big Cheese and then ask why men can kill millions and no one on earth says much of anything?That will get some attention.Tony
Your argument is grounds for abortion. Is your life so sacred? Had you and others like you been aborted, we wouldn't have as many hypocrites spewing righteous bullshit on the internet. Consequences. Who the fuck do you think you are?
Marian Cole
The $1000.00 suited, Gucci shod males who make pronouncements, support and pass legislation about women's health make me sick. It was said above but all they really want is to have women in aprons, with no shoes and pregnant.
All their chatter about not "killing the unborn" appears to be secondary.
I took care of women who were left with wire coat hangars, knitting needles, lye douches, charlatans in back alleys and dirty rooms with their dirty hands out for the money to maim, wound, infect, sterilize, terrorize and in some instances kill women.
Where are the women legislators who could design their own legislation and fight this despicable treatment of women?
This is a simple fact of History. Abortions have alwasy been with us. Tribes the world over practiced abortions as a means to controlling their populations.
In the Pacific Islands they used to lay hot rocks on the womans stomachs. In Ancient Greece Physicians prescribed various herbs and Plants. In 19th centruy America traveling Medicine shows would sell Bottled Chemicals to deal with "womens problems".
In all those societies it was acceptable.
Now Slavery was acceptable then as well. So just as it does not follow that since slavery acceptable then, it acceptable today we can not argue that because Abortions have always been practiced they are acceptable today.
BUT.
We must realize that abortion is purely a Moral issue. It is certainly hard for some people to accept the practice of such and we must accept that.
What are the moral consequences of a world where abortions are totally outlawed? Weigh that against the Moral Consequences of it being the womans right to choose.
While I am personally against abortions and would never recommend one to friend or member of my family, I have come to the conclusion that given the choices and consequences of each it should remain the Womans right to choose.
I do NOT believe when they make this choice that it an easy one to make and I believe that vast majority of women who are in that position have dounts and regrets no matter the decision made. I really do not see how society PUNISHING them would help.
There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding...
I'm simply saying this: the 'debate' over 'reproductive rights' AFTER a woman becomes pregnant, AFTER voluntarily consenting to having sex shouldn't be the starting point.
The starting point is: men and women have the RIGHT to choose to engage in as much consensual sex as they desire, whether their goal is to reproduce or not.
However, that right-to-choose is not disconnected from the possible chain of events that may follow.
Many of the comments here reflect the classic 'want my cake and it eat, too,' defense - wanting to have sex without having to deal with one of the major potential consequences.
That is not an argument FOR abortion - that's an argument for taking a deep breath before you take the plunge and asking yourself this: if something were to happen, like a condom break, am I ready to raise a child?
It used to be called 'looking before you leap.' When did that become the wrong thing to do?
If you're not, then you just wanna have sex for reasons other than procreation. Fine. But how does that mean you then have the 'right' to say I do not want to deal w/the next part?
Back in college, two of my best friends had abortions. It was the most traumatic experience of their lives, and both regret it to this day. Although I did not agree with their choices, I supported them A to Z.
Neither ever had even a near miss after that, however...
I have no opinion re: celibacy, or abstinence, or promiscuity - hell, I think prostitution should be legal - but all choices come with a range of potential consequences. Why are so many arguing that finding ways to avoid those consequences is a good idea?
Like declaring War, choosing abortion to avoid the consequences of your previous choices should be the absolute last choice on the list. That doesn't mean it should be illegal - it just means that if more adults acted like adults, the number of abortions performed would drop tremendously...
I don't think it is only semantic to point out that acting "like adults" is exactly what causes pregnancy.
Adults did not stop having sex for syphilis and have not done so for AIDS. Those of you sexually mature in the mid-80's might recall how similar your first AIDS conversations were to prior herpes conversations despite the differences in the diseases. And before we call our ancestors fools for being so like ourselves, let us recall that both we and our ancestors are in a very real sense nothing but the elaborate blooms of microbial reproduction.
None of us asks to be brought to life; for crying out loud, forgive yourselves that much.
Sure, sex on a given evening or with a given partner is voluntary - let's hope so, at any rate. Nothing in that makes long term celibacy viable. People who attempt it suffer, and people who do not accomplish stable and reasonable sexual socialization during their lifetimes die young.
Sex is only slightly more voluntary than nutrition, and far less so than formal education.
All this talk of "consequences" bears little weight, frankly. In any moderately rigorous sense, anyone deals with the consequences of all actions, one's own and those of others. One who aborts does not "escape dealing with consequences," but deals with the differing consequences of different acts.
If adults acted cautiously, with ample recognition of their options and under reduced pressure to find some surcease from a system hostile to most of their interests, of course they would more effectively unwanted pregnancy and unwanted anything else, and not only abortions but likely divorces and a lot of other unpleasantness would be reduced.
However, that makes no argument in favor of this bogus pretense at a health bill. Its reduction of coverage and harnessing of government to underwrite the insurance should be voted down.
Sad and sorry day ---
During the depression my own maternal grandmother yanked at least three children out of her womb with coathangers.
She survived her surgery but not her bitterness, though she lived to 94 and spoke to us all not only against sex but against love and trust, with all the love that her old lady's frame possessed.
The wounds of false morality cast a plague of pain and denial and a forgetting incomplete and without remedy.
Nothing whatsoever in this monstrosity parading as health bill merits visiting such things upon women or our descendants.
The Dems need a real health bill or a phony one. Let us kill this and pressure them to produce the real one.
The Abortion bandwagon.Those pro abortion lazy fucks who can't be bothered to buy or use several kinds of birth control and are too self indulgent and half witted to see beyond their narcissistic hedonistic addiction.Often these bottom feeders even have several abortions/baby murders because what again INCONVENIENT OR MAYBE THEY DON'T LIKE CHILDREN WHATEVER THE BOOHOO OF THE DAY! LIFE IS A GIFT PRECIOUS AND NOT SOME FILTHIfIED event as these shallow pro abortion inhumane whineys are trying to have us believe.ATTENDING THE MIRACULOUS BIRTH PROCESS IS TRULY BEAUTIFUL.A NEW BORN IS THE GREATEST WONDER IN THE WORLD.A child is precious,a gift from God.Figures of the USSA child murder rate via ABORTION is in the multimillions and try to adopt.Birth control Should be free and liberally so. birth control shelves but Abortion USE YOUR COAT HANGERS,STICKEM UP YOUR ASS WHILE YOU ARE AT IT. A BUNCH OF MONSTERS.
KILL YOUR OWN CHILD I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE HOW ANYONE could do that!
I'd respond, but would feel like I was feeding a troll.
You are absolutely right Sir!the troll respondeth!
I am surprised you did not respond, untypical of an inveterate blatherer of shallow inanities
Addendum As a member of a coathanger manufacturing board of directors ,I'm paid to troll and promote their products!
The Abortion bandwagon.Those pro abortion lazy fucks who can't be bothered to buy or use several kinds of birth control and are too self indulgent and half witted to see beyond their narcissistic hedonistic addiction.Often these bottom feeders even have several abortions/baby murders because what again INCONVENIENT OR MAYBE THEY DON'T LIKE CHILDREN WHATEVER THE BOOHOO OF THE DAY! LIFE IS A GIFT PRECIOUS AND NOT SOME FILTHIfIED event as these shallow pro abortion inhumane whineys are trying to have us believe.ATTENDING THE MIRACULOUS BIRTH PROCESS IS TRULY BEAUTIFUL.A NEW BORN IS THE GREATEST WONDER IN THE WORLD.A child is precious,a gift from God.Figures of the USSA child murder rate via ABORTION is in the multimillions and try to adopt.Birth control Should be free and liberally so. birth control shelves but Abortion USE YOUR COAT HANGERS,STICKEM UP YOUR ASS WHILE YOU ARE AT IT. A BUNCH OF MONSTERS.
KILL YOUR OWN CHILD I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE HOW ANYONE could do that!