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TechnoratiWhat Madoff Really Needs is Company, and Lots of It
Don't get Madoff, get even: Bernie Madoff may deserve his 150-year jail sentence – but he wasn't the biggest crook on Wall Street
Everyone knew that Bernie Madoff was going down – since he had already pleaded guilty to running a fake investment scheme worth between $65bn and $171bn. So there was none of the drama that accompanied fraud trials like that of Jeffrey Skilling, who maintained his innocence even after he was convicted for his part in the collapse of Enron. The only question today was how long inside Madoff would get. His lawyers suggested – in a spirit of optimism only paid advocates could muster – that Madoff deserved just 12 years in jail. The judge gave him the maximum 150. So, with time off for good behaviour, Bernie will be out in time to celebrate his 146th birthday in 2084.
In other words, barring a judicial miracle, the 71-year-old Madoff will spend the rest of his life behind bars. In terms of discouraging others from selling their souls in return for enjoying 20 years of wealth and prestige, Madoff's sentence is a good thing. And it is tempting to indulge in schadenfreude at Madoff's expense, after he had indulged in riches and privilege at the expense of others. But the worst result of Madoff's life sentence is that he becomes the face of the circa-2008 financial tsunami – and that he doesn't deserve, even if he deserves to rot behind bars.
What Bernie Madoff really needs is company, and lots of it. And not just from those who must surely have helped him – since no-one could carry out such a massive fraud for so many years without substantial assitance. He should have company from the overseers of the fraud perpetrated by Wall Street's most famous names, on a trillion-dollar scale that dwarfs even Madoff's fraud.
Indeed, a 150 year sentence for Madoff verges on the heavy-handed, and not just compared to other crimes (Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, also pleaded guily and got imprisonment without parole – but he killed people). Skilling, the mastermind behind the house of mirrors that was Enron, received a sentence of only 24 years in jail, and that was after pleading not guilty. (Skilling is still appealing his sentence, although his conviction has been reaffirmed by the US court of appeals.)
So what makes Madoff worse, apart from the size of his fraud? According to the judge who sentenced Madoff, the length partly reflects the fact that no friends, colleagues or family members were willing to give character references for Bernie to the court. But that's hardly a surprise, since they want to be as far away from the whole business as possible. Feel free to speculate in your own mind as to why that might be. And that is the difference between Madoff and Skilling: the Enron chief executive was one of several running the company who were tried and convicted, spreading the blame and the retribution.
But by allowing the blame to fall on Madoff – who made a billion-dollar understatement in court when he referred to his fraud as "an error of judgment" – lets many more people off the hook. When the compilation clips of the 2008 financial crisis news-reel runs in the future, as it surely will, the face of Bernie Madoff alone can't be allowed to personify the scale of the disaster. Madoff profited from it, to be sure. But he was the scavenger who picked over the bones left behind by the crazy-money operations run elsewhere.
Sadly for Bernie Madoff, his fraud was straight forward: he stole money from investors and ran a Ponzi scheme. (His particular genius was not to promise fantastic, overnight profits, as is usually the way. Instead he offered solid long-term returns, less likely to attract attention.) But if he'd really been smart he would have got into selling collatoralised debt obligations, credit default swaps, mezzanine level revolving syndicated loans, tulip futures and all the rest. Then, if he'd really got lucky, he'd have got a bailout.
38 Comments so far
Show AllYes, round them all up and don't close Guantanamo...send them there, to enjoy the cool evening breeze in those orange suits.
I was just saying to a friend that the people who really need to be behind bars are some of the big players at Goldman Sachs. Anyone read this?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16763183/TaibbiGoldmanSachs#page=2
Here is a quicker smaller file of this EXCELLENT article:
http://www.correntewire
(connect to next line)
.com/great_american_bubble_machine_0
Many of the 'investors' were thieves in their own right.
And the amount of money they claim they lost may not be the actual amounts. If I invested $100,000, and it goes up in value to $250,000, I didn't lose $250,000, though many of the investors will claim that amount.
don't cry just yet for Madoff or the 'investors.'
Deepa
Does Madoff represent what US is? Madoff's ruthless money-making at the expense of others to maintain a luxurious life-style is what the US is doing to sovereign countries around the world in order to sustain AMERICAN DREAM:
High Consumption
Compulsive Acquisition
Instant Gratification
Deepa -- while of course a SOCIETY is a general collection of individuals where not ALL individuals are the same....remembering that a CULTURE within a Society -such as Profit/culture above all, "business is the business of america" , etc ....also MAKES what the individuals of a society be who they ARE..regardless of their individual detachment from the CULTURE of that society that is the accepted norm : in the case of America -- PROFITMAKING above all...MONEY, POWER, "success", "winning"..SELF...etc.
so with that in mind - as answer - how about the old revelation by GENERAL SMEDLEY BUTLER , US MARINE, from the 1930's after 30 years of service "to our BIG BOSS - our supernationalistic capitalism?":
"WE ARE A PREDATOR NATION...OUR FOREIGN policy has always been geared towards gathering as much of the world's resources unto ourselves at the expense of others...the True purpose of our Armed Forces is to make the world safe for Capitalism and our Economic and Cultural Assault....the TROUBLE with US AMERICANS is:
...if our Dollar Can't buy more than 5 or 6 % of value at HOME -- we want to go abroad so it can buy 100 % more...and where the DOLLAR goes, our FLAG follows, where the FLAG goes, our ARMY follows.....WAR is a RACKET ....you wanted to pacify China so our BIG OIL can run unmolested? i'd do it....you wanted to make sure nicaragua, panama, dominican republic, puerto rico and any number of south american countries are pacified for our Big Money, Big Corporations and Big Banks? id' pacify them for you....they have their BIG BRAINS -- people who identify threats to our Will and to destroy..The Military is their BIG MUSCLE...so you can Say i was its Chief Enforcer.....AL CAPONE had nothing on me. i could have taught him ....his turf was Chicago and a few other cities...MY RACKET spanned 3 continents.......
WE are a NATION OF RACKETEERS".
so - in a sense -- it IS CULTURAL. the USA is built upon it. it is its foundation despite the highsounding words of "Freedom, liberty, justice" by europeans who thesmelves
committed Genocide , ENSLAVEMENT , abrogating treaties they themselves put with other people to exploit them, and it CONTINUES to this very day.....in order to be ABLE to WRITE those same highsounding words.........and it CONTINUES to this very day..
all. as General BUTLER SAID:
""
"ALL OF US --- IN SERVICE OF OUR BIG BOSS -- our SUPERNATIONALISTIC CAPITALISM".
and THEN UPDATED in 2008/2009..ADD THIS :
by JOHN PERKINS , former CIA "economic hitman" who described the work of people like him as for the purpose of "undermining foreign governments and institutions that are NOT cooperative to the will of OUR Chamber of Commerce".....
and who said:
"we are an EMPIRE - the largest the world has known -- and we have gotten away with buildign this EMpire through Manipulation, Torture, Assassinations, Blackmail, fomenting insurrections and destabilizations against governments that are uncooperative, Overt and Covert Wars...we'd start with offering loans to weaker countries KNOWING that they need help to develop and KNOWING that they can not pay properly our USURIOUS rates..and when payment time comes, and they can't pay, we approach them and say:
'look, why don't you change your laws, open up your forests, your resources to our companies, lower your wage and labor protections, etc..."
if they refuse - we resort to blackmail through the bribes we gave , if they refuse we resort to assassinations, if they refuse , we foment rebellions to blame them for mismanagement, if they still refuse - we use economic sanctions.....if still they refuse - that's when we send in our ARMY..that's what you see in iraq now..."
I was part of that Project of Empire in South America, Asia , Africa and middle East. we called ourselves "economic hitmen"..for the purpose of making weaker nations PERMANENTLY SUBJUGATED to OUR will.
"WHAT AMERICANS DO NOT REALLY UNDERSTAND IS: WE ARE LIVING OUR lifestyles -- ONLY BECAUSE - it is part of a VERY , VERY VICIOUS system of EXPLOITATION that Dehumanizes and ENSLAVES people EVERYWHERE".
"WHAT AMERICANS DO NOT REALLY UNDERSTAND IS: WE ARE LIVING OUR lifestyles -- ONLY BECAUSE - it is part of a VERY , VERY VICIOUS system of EXPLOITATION that Dehumanizes and ENSLAVES people EVERYWHERE"
One of the BEST posts for a long time!!!
Now we need to get that message into the head of 300 mill people. The rest of the world has already learned it the hard way.
“Collateral Damage” by E. P Heidner, part I and II.
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
Yachtie...the Former CIA "economic hitman" John Perkins who wrote his book "confessions of an Economic Hitman" gave a few interviews over the past year or so --
of course , like anyone that dares buck the "system" and it's prefered "truths" , he TOO could easily be stamped as "unamerican"...or simply be ignored so his revelations disappear into the blackhole of american short-attention span-- merely another "conspiracy theorist"...or "disgruntled former employee"...
but he said that he had this book already ready more than a decade - but ADMITTED even that:
out of FEAR and threats - and that he of course KNEW the whole business and how people can be disappeared by the USA - and he ALSO SUCCUMBED to BRIBES to keep his mouth shut and NOT publish it.
he said he had to submit his manuscript to the CIA for "approval"...and EVEN THAT "approved" version STILL was a very dangerous attempt for years.
so - one can imagine that it is in his INTERVIEWS - probably at constant fear from now on for his life and his family's -
that he is forced to "fill-in" whatever substances are not "allowed" in his book.
the quotes I have are from his Interviews over the many months. but the thing to remember is - whether it is FROM revelations by GEneral SMedley Butler, US MARINES, in 1933 speeches after retirement and "after years of SUPPRESSING my OWN conscience...i will have NO MORE to do with our foreign policy ...it is EVIL" --
or updated by John Perkins in 2008/09
OR EVEN as far back as the first imperial projects as far back as even Thomas Jefferson
or for the foreseeable future of Obama onwards (shifting from outright land invasions in south america for many decades - calling South America as "OUR BACKYARD" since the "manifest destiny" declarations by earlier presidents -- shifting to more "color revolution" type "support" in destabilising uncooperative countries : like Iran or former Soviet Republics, or that latest CIA inspired short coup of Chavez in Venezuela 2 years ago under bush)
NOTHING HAS CHANGED in US attitude .
if anything it has morphed into its LATEST, more technologically advanced stage of thinking of
TOTAL "FULL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE" all over the planet and the heavens
That will tolerate NO rivals - and should they TRY - why -- they're going to be the "new threat to world peace".....
that's ,after all, the PATTERN of US IMPERIAL behavior....
EQUATING "threat to WORLD peace and stability" ANYTHING or ANYONE or ANY country that DARES oppose US INTENTIONS to BE
the dominant power on earth Forever.....
while at the same time BEING -- as most nations NOW see --
BEING --ITSELF -- THE PRIMARY threat to world peace and stability ..all along.
It looks increasingly likely that the CABAL has misjudged the self-propelling dynamic of the crisis and the power of information and knowledge via the Internet, the savior from the MSM. With the hopelessness of logic more and more people realize what’s coming. We are facing disastrous times. Mayday Mayday we are going down!
History has umpteen examples where things developed with their own trajectory. When people have their back to the wall and their a&& on the ground and nothing to loose, acts of wrath and revenge and desperation will take place. There will be a social 'uprising' against the CABAL.
Political systems around the world will harden before they fall. There will be no justice. There might not even be martial law. But there will be ‘cleansing’ of banksters and bullshiticians and Fat Cats.
Berie Madoff was a scapegoat of the SYSTEM to distract from corruption and crime of grandest proportions:
“Collateral Damage” by E. P Heidner, parts I and II.
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
sorry---double submitted
sorry---double submitted
Deepa
TEDDY: Your posts are very educative and insightful. I wish that there is some way where there can be exchange of thoughts with persons like you. You bring lot of knowledge to CD forum.
Thanks , Deepa. I am just like any ordinary person trying to inform myself about the world and its problems - which , imo, - are LARGELY UNNECESSARY - and more often than NOT due to the interferences of powerful countries, and PARTICULARLY the united states - for the purpose of EMPIRE which americans do not LIKE to use - but which amounts to the same thing:
using the power and wealth and advancement of a culture and society to intentionally or otherwise, but ALWAYS through NATIONAL POLICY and cultural beliefs, that ARE exploitative of those that are weaker. -- and in the USA - culture - this is explained and promoted, generation by generation as "the american way" of being "a rugged individual"...a "go-getter"...a "winner"....a "self-made" person...a triumphalist attitude which all amounts to the MYTH of
american exceptionalism.
of course countries will always try to advance their national interests - but largely through the NECESSITY of DEFENDING themselves from being overwhelmed OR exploited by others.
in the modern world - or in fact , in history, study it - NO EMPIRE or nation has spanned such a GLOBAL REACH -
with such INTENTIONAL IMPERIAL motivations.
- example: in ALL the thousands of years of the "empire" of INDIA - or CHINA - one looks at their geographies today - apart from the more recent century's RESULTS from WESTERN imperialism towards carving out NEW "nations" - a consequence of FOREIGN domination -
the GENERAL OUTLINES of the map of CHINA and INDIA REMAIN as they ALREADY were over 3,000 years ago.
does this NOT show that they have behaved - for all of their own flaws (as all countries have) - as nations with NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER in "swallowing" up others?
ONLY THE USA today CROSSES the OCEANS to INTERFERE in the affairs of other REGIONS for the purpose of a GLOBAL REACH of empire.
and its results - through its policies?
unabated, habitual POVERTY in the large masses of people EVERYWHERE where the US hold or terms of "isolation" are strongest.
why is this? the answers are very clear for anyone that dares to look closely and honestly. the USA is an EMPIRE that IS NOT benevolent -- on the contrary - it is DESIGNED to BE a racketeer, exploitative nation
as an EXTENSION outwards of what it BEGAN as! a nation that commited genocide, slavery, exploitation and rapacious methods for its "power and wealth"..and maintains it through '
MILITARISM to "protect" its "interests" based on its NATIONALIST capitalist dogma..which ITSELF is inherently exploitative.
it's a Gangster Nation, when it comes down to talking about the most basic truths..however much americans want to believe in the "basic goodness" of america. but that is after all, only an IDEA - this "goodness"...
it is its ACTIONS and DECISIONS which COUNT.
and whether through lifestyle REQUIRING such exploitation of OTHERS in order to be SUPPORTED by the REST of the world - whether ameircans KNOW IT or not (and if not, only THINK "we did all by OURSELVES because we are rugged individualists" NONSENSE) - or through its politics or commerce - the EFFECTS worldwide are seen :
WARS left and right - the LONGEST , broadest history among modern nations of WARS - over 200 of them in just over one-hundred years! practically every single one of them UNPROVOKED - inspite of the "Pearl Harbor" attack by the japanese which was ITSELF a CONSEQUENCE OF PREVIOUS AMERICAN isolation and economic blockade OF japan because japan WOULDN"T bow to america >
even THIS is REPEATED by the isolation and economic sanctions of america for 50 years against Communist China BECAUSE china KICKED OUT the american imperialists FROM the late 19-th century!!!
in other words -- as BUTLER the Marine General said:
"IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FREEDOM or LIBERTY or JUSTICE...it is a RACKET for OUR big banks, big corporations and big finance".
and WHAT IS THE USA IF NOT
BIG BANKS, BIG CORPORATIONS, BIG FINANCE which americans glorify as the
"success of america?"
because they are PART of it?
how can one of course DENY one's OWN FAMILY even if one's family IS a RACKETEER FAMILY -- the greatest and foremost in the world?
what was the WALL STREET COLLAPSE since 2008 that was a POISON for the ENTIRE global financial network and economy - IF NOT A RACKET?>
what is the FEDERAL BANK printing WORTHLESS PAPER backed up by NOTHING but the "creditworthy US Government" and "credit worthy" BANKRUPT US consumer and BANKRUPT US corporations and BANKRUPT US internal social policies and BANKRUPT WAR policy?
what is ALL THAT if NOT A RACKET - pure and simple?
even its "moral righteousness" IS itself a RACKET.
the USA is QUICK to denounce and BRING TO COURT "torturers" of weaker , smaller nations
BUT suddenly - it's NOT applicable to ITS DOZENS of high officials and perhaps hundreds of soldiers or agents having committed WAR CRIMES GLOBALLY?
as shown by another article how the USA "protects" ITS own war criminals and wishes for the world to "forget" IT has commited WAR CRIMES : the destruction of an ENTIRE country of Iraq based on LIES because of LUST for CONTROL of ITS oil and geopolitical advantage in a region IT doesn't BELONG TO...in order to FURTHER FEED its Imperial expansion RIGHT to the borders and even INSIDE china, india and russia and other countries?
what the HELL Is that all about if NOT a RACKET by a Gangster Nation? that talks about "high values?" ..;when in fact - it is MERELY a johnny come lately in the history of the world- the LEADER in creating a "lifestyle" of endless consumption that has brought the world to the brink of Planetary, environmental, and social collapse as the PRICE of ITS Rise to power and wealth.......
BUT tries to LECTURE the rest of the world about how to BEHAVE?
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/29-9
Since Bill Clinton deregulated the Banking and Finance system,
and he is collecting millions of dollars from Foreign countries, isn't he guilty of the ruination of our industrial
base? An investigation of this game by the Clintons is in
order. We are now in a major depression and no B--- S--- from
Obama will save us. The press is scared to death of the very mention of the fact that Clinton and Bush Families have sold out our industrial base to China, and the only gainers in this country are Walmart and Hillary who was on the board of directors of Walmart.
How much time and money was wasted by the Repugs on a personal vendetta to bring Clilnton down for having his pants open, while his true crime was one that has benefited those same Wall Street crooks immeasurably. Honestly, any time I want a purgative, I just examine the corruption that is the United States version of capitalism.
"Madoff" investors have NOT repeat-- NOT --- lost enormous amounts of money with Bernie Madoff ---- why ?? -- because all investments are nominally and 100% guaranteed.
Yes a Federal Bail-Out for Madoff Investors ?
Why is it that the regular American on the Street may never get to hear the "rest of the story" ?
Because the Madoff case is labeled a fraud, it appears that investors are going to be able to claim their investment back under the US government's financial fraud protection scheme.
The "victims" have also been told by the US tax authorities that they will probably also be entitled to claim back some taxes on these defrauded sums.
If the CEO admits the fund has gone bust, then investors get nothing, but if the CEO admits to fraud they get their money back as compensation from the US tax payer.
Madoff investors get to litigate the fund directors against Lloyds insurers in London for even more compensation.
Done properly could the compensation end up paying out more than the original fund returns ?
The IRS stands to refund as much as 35 percent of Madoff’s $60 billion fraud, or about $21 billion,
Investors who sue Madoff and may receive some settlement are limited to a 75 percent theft-loss deduction. Those who don’t sue can deduct 95 percent of their losses immediately and claim the rest at a later date if they receive none of their funds back.
Jewish Senator Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat, said the new IRS guidance “is clear, comprehensive and comes at a crucial time.”
U.S. District Judge Louis L. Stanton ordered that clients of Bernard Madoff's private investment business seek relief under a federal statute created to rescue cheated investors. Stanton also ordered that business be liquidated under the jurisdiction of a bankruptcy court and named attorney Irvin H. Picard as trustee to oversee that process.
Remember the Madoff family contributed nearly $400,000 to political committees.
The idea that all these professionals in all these companies were all duped is absolute nonsense.
I AGREE. investors KNOW they are protected or backed up by "government" -- by the PUBLIC unwittingly. THAT is why they ARE investors. they can always move their "reclaimed assets" ELSWhERE to play the game over and over again -- ALWAYS
at public expense.
this is why my HEART NEVER bleeds for "investors" in these schemes and under this "VERY , VERY VICIOUS SYSTEM of EXPLOITATION that Dehumanizes and Enslaves people Everywhere" (JOHN PERKINS, Former CIA "economic Hitman" :'CONFESSIONS of an ECONOMIC HITMAN' ) .
And what of the people who invested in feeder funds, feeder funds which then passed on the money to Madoff? These investors in quite a few cases DID NOT know that their feeder funds were passing the money onto Madoff. What of retirement plans of businesses that invested with Madoff, or feeder funds which then passed on the money to Madoff? The workers involved might very well not have known, and not have any choice even if they had known, that Madoff was handling their money.
what was it that President FD Roosevelt said around the Depression?
"WE HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN that Greed is BAD MORALS...NOW -- we know that it is ALSO BAD economics".
and THAT is something ALL investors ought to scratch on the walls to see everyday if they want to play the game or be AWARE of as PART of a CULTURE devoted to "gain" and "profit" at the expense of public commons.
it is a fundamental difference of concepts of ethics as a CuLTURE.
these things we are talking about are operative ONLY because it is ACCEPTED that what is NORMAL is the idea of "private gain" ABOVE that of public commons.
that is OF COURSE the culture of the USA.
You are right for reminding about them. ANY of US could have , or could be, among those. and this also includes investors who over time, under the current "rules" promoted by the USA , actually have LOST the power of their "vote" as it is swallowed up into the upper reaches of the corporate boards.
SO my generalization of "investors" is inaccurate.
What i had in mind more were investors who are more , shall we say, SAVVY about the game of investing. those who know the ins-and-outs...
however - we have to remember : THIS IS the very nature of the "game" of investment. Fundamental to its CULTURE - is, after, all - the brilliant idea , supposedly, that RISK TAKING is also the other side of the "just rewards". is it not part of the american culture espoused as "capitalism" and "free market?"..and above all -- the glorification of "private capital" and "private ownership" ?
the problem here, imo, is that unknowingly or knowingly, the game of private investment also carries within it, fundamentally, the principle of "spreading risk" TO THE PUBLIC that does NOT invest (whether that is wise or not is beside the point since also NOT everyone does it or is in a POSITION to do it) - while - as we have seen in wall street -
PRIVATIZING GAIN that is supported by what is really public commons.
according to capitalist dogma : when "private investors" GAIN through investment - TRICKLE DOWN economics will benefit..but we NOW know or should HAVE known - that is not true at all.
but when private investors (whether through institutions such as publicly funded savings or pensions) LOSE - the PUBLIC LOSES.
so - yes a private investor, knowingly or not - might LOSE and that is a tragedy - but ALONG with THAT LOSS the PUBLIC ALSO LOSES which is even farther OUTSIDE of the circle of "investing" even as ITS funds has been used to partly support or "cover" the losses of private investments.
so in the end -
GAIN - private investors WIN
LOSS - private investors STILL win
and the PUBLIC EITHER WAY LOSSES far more than the actual value of the commons that was privatized FROM IT in order to compensate private investors...either in gain or loss.
WOW.....
Richard Adams hits the nail squarely on the head: until the Wall Street douche bags whom "engineered" a second major financial meltdown in less than 100 years, among other crimes, pay with the same sort of jail time that Madoff received (it appears as if he is being made an example of), then Charlie Chaplin's bitter refrain from Monsieur Verdoux, "Numbers justify," applies.
That bankers and senators aren't dangling from lamp-posts across the country is testimony to the passivity, the submissiveness, the lickspittle nature of the modern American people.
That they aren't is also carte blanche for us who do not wish to obey the law to follow our instincts.
Amen!
Read below and you will get a picture of a crime syndicate which will make Madoff look like a little handbag thief: “Collateral Damage” by E. P Heidner, part I and II.
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
The two documents have just recently been published and are very well researched and referenced (over 400 footnotes). The articles are lengthy, some parts not easy to follow and to digest and they need to be read with an open mind. But they are well worth the effort. They provide extremely distressing information (some reads like a thriller).
The implications will challenge how we look at politics, economy, history, finance, war and terrorism. Many persons in the documents are well known; many are right now in pivotal positions of politics and finance. These people do shape OUR life and that of our children right now. The details are stunning. The consequences are BEYOND BELIEF.
yachtie June 29th, 2009 7:24 pm....I've been trying for months to get as many folks as possible to read these articles. Some do..very few....maybe the length scares them. And, like 9/11, MANY simply do not wish to believe what they are reading and ignore the contents as another conspiracy theory. As you have said, the articles are very well documented and foot-noted. The average citizen is doing him/herself a great injustice to not read and comprehend what is behind this unbelievable plot.
Good luck and I (and hope, you) will continue to spread this most important article far and wide.
Thank you and welcome to the crew.
Keep on spreading the news.
KNOWLEDGE is POWER.
It's one of the most important infos every person should at least have read, even if it is too horrible and too demanding for some cognitive coping strategies that simply refuse to accept facts.
yachtie June 30th, 2009 9:50 pm.............Knowldege is power...no doubt....BUT, so few Americans want the "burden" of that power. AS my friend, Doc Tom Tvedten (9/11 dvdproject.com) says..."You cannot awaken a person pretending to be asleep"...BUT, I and others as yourself, MUST try.
I've got a punishment worse than jail--tax these billionaires progressively. Let them leave if they don't like it. Butd on't let them into the US ever again.
Where would the hapless souls go? Denmark, Canada, UK, The Netherlands, Norway? In places such as these, the poor devils would have to survive the horrors of socialism and all of its pitfalls such as decent healthcare, financial safety nets for all, etc. Oh the cruelty of it! (sorry for the sarcasm.)
Many years ago - i spoke with a swedish lady . and asked her her opinion - difference of ethics and culture and economics, etc.
she told me something I will NEVER forget about the difference between USA and Sweden:
she said:
"IN SWEDEN - while there are of course also wealthy people - we simply find it ABHORRENT for anyone to gain so much wealth if the rest of society is going to suffer for it..it is simply unacceptable to us".
and i read more - particularly the explanations (very involved ones) by the economists in sweden, particularly some that were involved since the 60's in "designing" their economic system and then offering it to the people for referendums which is reflected in what we have seen them do over the decades (high taxes, social welfare, cradle to grave, BUT mixed with private investments and choices which is left up to the people whether they will "have a private doctor OR go BACK to the public doctor" and such things)
and i was surprised that the economists (i saw this on TV and Youtube also ) -
are about unanimous in saying that the US model is simply unacceptable to them.
there is also a very rich man in FINLAND ..i think he is the richest there , and who started the NOKIA company. he is only in his 50's i believe. and said to questions about high taxes for himself and his wife and company:
"I am already rich -- beyond my dreams -- but i became rich BECAUSE of what MY society permitted me to be and provided everything to ALLOW ME to free myself to be creative and entrepreneurial...so it is only NATURAL that i pay back to society what it has given me...I am HAPPY to pay high taxes as my contribution to society so that others will also continue to enjoy the benefits that allowed me to truly be Free for what I want to do".
at that time of his interview i saw - a few years back only - FINLAND already OWNED about 30 percent of the world's patents for advanced technologies - has , as one of its greatest EXPORTS -
ARTISTS, MUSICIANS, POETS, WRITERS, ENGINEERS, DOCTORS, SCIENTISTS, etc....
ALL as a result of a society that thinks of the WHOLE
rather than just "parts" of the whole whose "gain" SUPPOSEDLY
will "trickle down" to the very society which a few "parts" exploit - such as in the US model.
Singapore. Hong Kong. Monaco. And what would you do then?
So Bernie gets about 1 year jail-time for every billion he stole...
"A Virginia man was sentenced Friday to more than 50 years in jail for robbing a western Maryland bank with his grandson."
They stole $33,888 - that's a year's jail-time for every $676.
Hmmm... which one is fair?
A year in jail for trying to steal $676?
A year in jail for successfully stealing 1 BILLION f#@king dollars?
There is no comparisison in the two cases.The grandpa + grandsons robbery didn't really hurt anyone.The depositors were insured ,and besides the frayed nerves of a few bank employees,not many reprecutions.But BMs ripple effect was devestating to many good people and N.G.O.s ,charities and the associates and employees of many firms that frequented Madoff and associates.I think a great idea would be constructive restitution laws.Under constructive restitution incarceration would be temporary.Comvicted felons would work off thier dept to society at a prevailing wage based on the work they do.After they have reimbursed thier victims they could be released to some sort of home detention ,with ankle bracelets or whatever tracking devise untill thier terms were up.This would be much more cost efffective then the presant prison industrial complex.As an added plus the victims would be compensated ,society wouldn't bear the costs of incarceration and the treasury would benifit. peace
One down...thousands to go.
Madoff needs to be joined by more or less the greater top executive and senior leadership of Wall St., K St., various right wing law firms and "think tanks", along with the very corrupt politicians that seem to poison the world. He's a convenient scapegoat - sadly, there are many more people like him. How many millions today are out of work or have lost their homes or in the developing world, are on the brink of starvation due to the games of Wall St or the US government?
The entire US government (minus a dozen or so) and the Bush criminal cabal should be keeping him company. Unless, of course, you believe the Obamasiah is going to save us all and turn it all around. Good luck with that!