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The Big Dither
Last month, in his big speech to Congress, President Obama argued for bold steps to fix America's dysfunctional banks. "While the cost of action will be great," he declared, "I can assure you that the cost of inaction will be far greater, for it could result in an economy that sputters along for not months or years, but perhaps a decade."
Many analysts agree. But among people I talk to there's a growing sense of frustration, even panic, over Mr. Obama's failure to match his words with deeds. The reality is that when it comes to dealing with the banks, the Obama administration is dithering. Policy is stuck in a holding pattern.
Here's how the pattern works: first, administration officials, usually speaking off the record, float a plan for rescuing the banks in the press. This trial balloon is quickly shot down by informed commentators.
Then, a few weeks later, the administration floats a new plan. This plan is, however, just a thinly disguised version of the previous plan, a fact quickly realized by all concerned. And the cycle starts again.
Why do officials keep offering plans that nobody else finds credible? Because somehow, top officials in the Obama administration and at the Federal Reserve have convinced themselves that troubled assets, often referred to these days as "toxic waste," are really worth much more than anyone is actually willing to pay for them - and that if these assets were properly priced, all our troubles would go away.
Thus, in a recent interview Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, tried to make a distinction between the "basic inherent economic value" of troubled assets and the "artificially depressed value" that those assets command right now. In recent transactions, even AAA-rated mortgage-backed securities have sold for less than 40 cents on the dollar, but Mr. Geithner seems to think they're worth much, much more.
And the government's job, he declared, is to "provide the financing to help get those markets working," pushing the price of toxic waste up to where it ought to be.
What's more, officials seem to believe that getting toxic waste properly priced would cure the ills of all our major financial institutions. Earlier this week, Ben Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, was asked about the problem of "zombies" - financial institutions that are effectively bankrupt but are being kept alive by government aid. "I don't know of any large zombie institutions in the U.S. financial system," he declared, and went on to specifically deny that A.I.G. - A.I.G.! - is a zombie.
This is the same A.I.G. that, unable to honor its promises to pay off other financial institutions when bonds default, has already received $150 billion in aid and just got a commitment for $30 billion more.
The truth is that the Bernanke-Geithner plan - the plan the administration keeps floating, in slightly different versions - isn't going to fly.
Take the plan's latest incarnation: a proposal to make low-interest loans to private investors willing to buy up troubled assets. This would certainly drive up the price of toxic waste because it would offer a heads-you-win, tails-we-lose proposition. As described, the plan would let investors profit if asset prices went up but just walk away if prices fell substantially.
But would it be enough to make the banking system healthy? No.
Think of it this way: by using taxpayer funds to subsidize the prices of toxic waste, the administration would shower benefits on everyone who made the mistake of buying the stuff. Some of those benefits would trickle down to where they're needed, shoring up the balance sheets of key financial institutions. But most of the benefit would go to people who don't need or deserve to be rescued.
And this means that the government would have to lay out trillions of dollars to bring the financial system back to health, which would, in turn, both ensure a fierce public outcry and add to already serious concerns about the deficit. (Yes, even strong advocates of fiscal stimulus like yours truly worry about red ink.) Realistically, it's just not going to happen.
So why has this zombie idea - it keeps being killed, but it keeps coming back - taken such a powerful grip? The answer, I fear, is that officials still aren't willing to face the facts. They don't want to face up to the dire state of major financial institutions because it's very hard to rescue an essentially insolvent bank without, at least temporarily, taking it over. And temporary nationalization is still, apparently, considered unthinkable.
But this refusal to face the facts means, in practice, an absence of action. And I share the president's fears: inaction could result in an economy that sputters along, not for months or years, but for a decade or more.- Posted in
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87 Comments so far
Show AllUntil we can have serious and informed conversations about the credit default swaps issue, nothing will save us or the financial institutions. AIG - and others - hold trillions of dollars of liability in credit default swaps. Whether $50 or $100 or $200 trillion, they must be addressed before any liquidity returns.
And, the taxpayers should not make a singe one - more, we have bailed out a lot - of them good. If this requires bankruptcy, so be it but the losers have to be, for a change, the people who made the mess not the taxpayers.
They hate us because of our freedom! Right, and I have this bridge....
Good comments
So the S&P falls 4% every day.
In only 25 days it'll be ZERO.
Then we'll be assured of at least one up day.
Obama told us not to worry about Geithner, Sumners and Voelcker and their history of creating this mess.
Obama informed us they'd be following his blueprint.
Whoever's plan this is it sucks eggs big time.
To keep shoveling bilions in cash into dead banks is a plan that leads to disaster.
If Citigroup and Bank of American were nationalized today there'd be a rally in excess of 1,000 points.
By now it's apparent that Obama has put the concerns of bankers before the citizens of this country.
When the Dow hits 4,000 maybe Obama will wake the heck up.
Momentarily it is up (it will go down again, you can count on it). it always goes up when jobs are slashed--it signals greater profits.Too bad those without work won't be able to consume..
"So the S&P falls 4% every day."
"In only 25 days it'll be ZERO."
Just to nitpick here: It's theoretically impossible for anything to become zero by losing a given percentage per day, no matter how many days you go for.
OTOH, for the S&P500 to reach zero, *all* 500 or so companies in the index would have to each go to zero. But the index is adjusted from time to time, as to what companies are in it's composition. The index is supposed to be the top 500 companies, ranked by capitalization. If a company's capitalization drops so much that it is no longer in the top 500, it gets dropped from the index. OTOH, if a company's capitalization changes such that it now is one of the top 500, it gets to join the index.
Thus, you would need for *all* publically traded companies in the US to get to zero for the index to get to zero. Theoretically possible, but unlikely to the extreme.
as far as theory goes, … try 100 % per day.
"It's theoretically impossible for anything to become zero by losing a given percentage per day, no matter how many days you go for."
I guess sometimes the nit is bigger than the fig.
"as far as theory goes, … try 100 % per day."
Has *any* stock index ever lost 100% in a day? No.
"I guess sometimes the nit is bigger than the fig."
My point remains untouched by this stupid comment.
In case you actually want to tackle it, I'll be nice and remind you that any daily % change in the S&P500 is from the previous day's close. Example: If the index is at 1000 and it loses 50% it is now at 500. If it loses 50% again it is now at 250. If it loses 50% again it is now at 125, and we can now see it will never go to zero even with an infinite amount of 50% daily drops.
Do you get it now? You are welcome.
Thanks for writing up something that I really did not want to waste my time on pointing out the obvious error on the percentages (No, I am not being sarcastic).
if you have "anything" ( most would understand that 'anything' means exactly that -- anything including touching a NIT the size of your "point" )
___ say $ 100
and you lose 100% of that in one day, which is $ 100
___ then your true value is 100 - 100 = 0 and it happened in one day.
Again, your direct quote -- to aid your feeble attention span ( from jakenewton March 6th, 2009 5:18 pm ) is :
"It's theoretically impossible for anything to become zero by losing a given percentage per day, no matter how many days you go for."
¿ Can you 'do the math' now ?
¿ Do you really expect that anyone thinks you're welcome ?
¿ Can you provide a counter example where 100 - 100 is non-zero ?
¿ What theoretical basis do you have, to deny the possibility of something losing 100% of it's traded value in a single day ?
¿ Have you ever consumed a product ( like milk ), that has an expiration date on it, which is tantamount to saying that the value ( price) does to zero on the last day ( even if you still chose to drink it ) ?
Hello Namaste. This was the original statement:
"So the S&P falls 4% every day."
Anyone who even occasionally reads the business page understands this to mean "from the previous day's close" and not from some other date, unless specified such as “for the week”, "year to date" or "since the election".
"say $ 100
and you lose 100% of that in one day, which is $ 100"
I apologize. 100% or "unity" is the one value of percentage loss where my claim is false. But we were talking about a stock index, not a spilled glass of milk. A stock index does not lose 100% in a day.
"What theoretical basis do you have, to deny the possibility of something losing 100% of it's traded value in a single day ?"
None. However in the case of the S&P500 you would need over 500 stocks to go to zero.
"Have you ever consumed a product ( like milk ), that has an expiration date on it, which is tantamount to saying that the value ( price) does to zero on the last day ( even if you still chose to drink it ) ?"
This is off the point but the idea of perishability in economics is an interesting one, such as with milk or airline seats, or even a day of activity in the market place or anywhere else.
Thanks for being able to admit the exaggerated claim,
… as your previous record is one of essentially zero tolerance for someone who goes beyond the envelope of your version of facts. It's good to see you valuing consistency, even for such a esoteric issue falling between the modeling of continuous and discrete systems.
A more common example of my argument would be COUPONS, whose value expires completely on a fixed date.
And yes, I did realize that you were implicitly discussing the S&P 500 index -- and as your temperament is usually ill suited for humility when railing on others -- I decided to take issue with your faulty righteousness.
Perhaps if you gave others more slack in their statements, I would generally feel more generous toward your statements ?
Namaste
"your previous record "
You have one too. You betcha. Nice to see you back.
Folks, there is a difference between discrete values and continuous distributions, but that would be a completely off topic discussion.
By your "netpicking", you are wasting our time by your trivia.
There are more important numbers to look at and contemplate its
dire meaning. Let keep our eyes on the ball.!!
It seems to me that you are one of those who are infatuated with Obama.
For you and your elk, Obama does no wrong. He is the messiah who
will deliver us. Just because he is not Bush will mean he is always right.
Yes,Bush was terrible and Obama will be a big disappointment and a failure.
I devoutly hope Mr. Krugman's analysis is taken seriously in high places, and that the bailout is not going to happen. We already have in place a mechanism for dealing with financial failures - it's called bankruptcy - that should work, although slowly, even though many failures ate coming at once instead of individually.
It's the system's RESET button, to be pressed when things really go kaput so you can start over. The economy is something like a complex computer program; it can run along for an extended period and then crash, because things that complex are never known to be fully debugged.
A voice of sanity!! Thanks!
I have no employer or peers to please so I can simply state the truth. Geithner and Bernanke (by implication, Obama)are "dithering" around until they can create some sort of cover before giving their masters and cronies in the financial industry more trillions. The biggest larceny in the history of the world continues as the heart of our economy is thrown crumbs.(The inadequate "stimulus" plan.)
It is the same with healthcare. Sooner or later it will become painfully and undeniably obvious that single payer is the only path out, yet the dithering will continue and the resources will drain away and the situation will only grow more severe. They are still in denial and Obama is the wrong man at the wrong time. The reality is more than he bargained for--he simply hasn't got a grasp on the pulse. It isn't connecting. Not being Bush isn't enough.
There's only one way out of this mess: To invest in productive, job creating enterprises. Our industrial base is missing-in-action; and if we don't rebuild it and start increasing the wages of workers, the deterioration of this country will continue.
The borrow and spend theory of economics has crippled this country and most people are now aware of it. They are now spending their money on what is necessary to survive this crisis and saving the rest. Even those who are financially better off than most are hunkering down and not spending like they were.
The charade to save the super-wealthy, risk-taking shareholders with taxpayers' money will go down in history as the largest heist and betrayal of the American public.
"There's only one way out of this mess: To invest in productive, job creating enterprises."
I tend to agree. What do you think is the best way to do this?
Taking over the Federal Reserve is a good start. Please refer to my main comments on this thread for more.
Re-write the trade agreements to protect OUR own economy as well as the rest of the world economies!
http://www.economyincrisis.org/articles/show/2556
Keynesian deficits could salvage the economy when the inevitable crisis first pointed out by Karl Marx of overproduction of commodities struck the world, creating the great depression. Because Keynesian deficits were not used to build useful infrastructure, however, in the long run the end result has been the capitalist overproduction of a different commodity: credit!
The attempt to create a foundation for the credit in trades of mortgage-backed securities created only the effort to pre-emptively drain the interest from these mortgage packages decades before they will be paid off. This created a short term demand for the securities which created a surge in the price of housing, but ultimately it left housing prices towering above what the wages of a nonunionized public could afford. At the first whiff of default, the whole structure has come crashing down.
Nothing can secure the overproduction of credit to the level of profit that existed before so that investments will gravitate towards less useful windfalls. If capitalism is to be saved, a rescue it does not deserve, capital must bite the bullet and go off the drip-feed. Taxes must be raised precipitously to steer investment income towards useful employment, however miniscule the margins of profit. The government must promote both labor and consumer unions in order to bolster wages, and full employment must be sought throughout the world.
Anything less invites the return of Jack-a-Dokes.
"the capitalist overproduction of a different commodity: credit!"
Well said.
Time to foreclose on the Banksters !
Right!
Old ideas die hard, such as the one that says private capital should control the money and credit of a nation.
This is why the big boys fear nationalization: it will clearly demonstrate the failure of private finance to act in the interest of the public.
And the greatest heresy of all will get traction: that money & credit are not the prerogative of wealthy individuals & their institutions, but a public utility like electricity & water that should be administered by government in the name of the general welfare, not by private bankers who administer the money & credit in their own class interest.
The private financial elite is in danger of losing its grip on the money power. And befoe they let that happen, they will se us all starve.
Correct.
Old ideas die hard indeed, but Old Power refuses to die, period. The financial elite have been amassing power in their sociopathic inbred families for generations. They're not about to give up their One World Government megalomania now. As they proved already, a massive financial "crisis" and Great Depression is a time of accelerated consolidation of wealth and power, not the opposite.
"Old ideas die hard indeed", you say and you're right. If it is good to help terminally ill patient to die with dignity then it is also good to help old ideas.
I strongly believe that not only banks and major Nation protecting industries like transportation, power generation and electric grid, communication and the like, will be nationalized as it happened in Germany after First Depression. Bankers and captains of industries will be all too happy to relinquish their liabilities to the State as long as they are allowed to keep their privileged positions. For it will be far better for them to obey orders than be summarily executed Bolshevik style. Besides, it will work wonders with planned physical economy as it did in Germany and USSR 76 years ago.
Alas, so far neither Herr Bush nor Herr Obama are not up to the task. And Comrade Lenin is nowhere to be found. But the time for either of them is fast approaching. I also hope that our Chinese comrades will oblige with the wise advises.
v.purto
Sioux Rose
CRUX: You got to the crux of the matter, well said.
I am surprised that after this analysis Paul Krugman is still not calling for the abolition of the Federal Reserve, and the takeover of the creation of all monies by the government.
The government can then loan out the money or distribute the money to solvent banks to loan out at low interest rates to spur the economy and create jobs. Managing money is a social service and ought to be treated as a such. Just like teaching, or garbage collection, finance is a support service that helps grease the wheels of a productive population. Enough of the nonsensical innovations of Credit Defaults Swaps and Collateral Debt Obligations. All these do is reward people who skim money off the backs of people producing real wealth.
If Dr. Krugman is worried about the value of the dollar falling as the result of the collective taking over the Federal Reserve, he ought to share his ideas with us.
The notion of eliminating the Fed is beyond unthinkable. None of these celebrity economists will ever ever mention such an idea unless they wish to be immediately vaporized.
Which makes the question, "So why has this zombie idea - it keeps being killed, but it keeps coming back - taken such a powerful grip?" purely rhetorical.
The problem for Obama is not that he can't come up with alternative solutions, but that he is forced to pose solutions within the current framework. Any real solutions must reach beyond that, and those will not be forthcoming from the administration or any power within the current power structure. If real change is to happen it must come from the people. As long as we are silent and defer to the current power structure for "their" solutions, we will continue to get the same results.
Obama could easily support transparency of the Federal Reserve. Shine some light on the beast with an audit! Bernie Sanders needs to pickup HR 1207 in the Senate and do exactly that:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1207/show
Sioux Rose
In a nation that has been programmed to worship Mammon and Mars, Mammon means you do NOT question the sacred cow personified as the Federal Reserve, and Mars means equally no questions are rendered to the all-important, ever-omnipotent military-industrial complex. As to the Biblical "Let there be no gods before me," those are the two that command most of our nation's blood and treasure, so until this truth is disected, the beast brought down, everything else is shuffling papers. Current prescribed remedies are like offering someone with cancer an aspirin to get through the day.
Yup! One cannot question the MIC either.
Bulls eye again, Sioux Rose. These two entities are beyond challenge by even one so insightful as Krugman. If he openly called for the social ownership of the Fed, or seriously went after the military-industrial-entertainment-media etc. complex he'd be set free by the New York Times to peddle his socialism elsewhere. Of course, as a liberal economist he merely wants to see some regulations put back into place so we won't have these horrendous meltdowns and consequent depressions. Krugman's like most good liberal analysts, like many writers for The Nation. They can analyze the problems often very well and see who the culprits are behind our endless parade of scandals and disasters, but they freeze up when it comes to rational solutions. Except ones that rescue capitalism and make it more presentable for public use.
ThoughtShaman,
Right on the money. Literally! Except for gamblers and thieves, who would object?
The boss class regards the mass class as insects to be squashed.
The boss is not your buddy. He hates you, he fears you, he wants you either dead or in chains forever.
Wake up and rise up.
Not dead, unless you threaten his order, but in chains, yes!
---USAn---
Thus, in a recent interview Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, tried to make a distinction between the "basic inherent economic value" of troubled assets and the "artificially depressed value" that those assets command right now. In recent transactions, even AAA-rated mortgage-backed securities have sold for less than 40 cents on the dollar, but Mr. Geithner seems to think they're worth much, much more.
Obama In Wonderland. Chapter I: Bring Back My Bubble.
Does Tim Geithner have a clue about what to do? I doubt it.
Geithner knows exactly what he is doing...
His first job out of college was with Kissinger & assoc....
He was head of the NYFED... And worked for Goldman Sachs...
He will keep offering up the same repackaged gift to the banksters until the people or congress buy it...
He is a CFR stooge, plain and simple...
When Securitization Blew Up; So Did the Economy
...One thing is certain, this isn't a normal recession. In a normal recession aggregate demand declines, economic activity slows, and GDP shrinks. While those things are taking place now, the reasons are quite different. The present slump wasn't brought on by a downturn in the business cycle or a mismatch in supply and demand. It was caused by a meltdown in the credit system's central core. That's the main difference. Wall Street's credit-generating mechanism, securitization, has broken down cutting off roughly 40 percent of the credit that had been flowing into the economy. As a result, consumer demand has collapsed, inventories are growing, and manufacturing has contracted for the 13th consecutive month. The equities markets are in freefall and all the economic indicators are pointed south. The so called "shadow banking system" which provided wholesale funding for mortgages, car loans, student loans, and credit card debt, has stopped functioning entirely.
Full and unedited from Mike Whitney:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22144.htm
Nah. I constantly get credit offers--not that I would risk more debt--but I still get offers. The credit IS available--the problem is everyone is in hock up to their eyeballs and you can't get blood from a stone. People are living beyond their means as it is and everything is getting more expensive while wages stagnate and future employment security is threatened.
Problem is those at the top of the heap have become accustumed to reeling it in and they think they are entitled to continue looting AND Obama caters to them.they are packing their storehouse for the long winter ahead. There is no future there, we would've been better off if they were jumping out of windows--at least we will be dealing with reality. Boy Obama and his rich white men are leading us down. We are going down.
Krugman's basic point - that the current White House approach to the global financial crisis is to have the invisible hand of the marketplace magically increase the value of toxic waste CDO's - is disquieting. If that is indeed what federal policy is banking on (no pun intended), we are in very deep doo-doo.
I think the distinction that should be drawn hinges on the difference between collateralized debt obligations (toxic waste that often had artificially inflated value) and credit default swaps (toxic waste premised purely upon concerns that a debtor might become insolvent).
Banks, institutional investors, and individuals who played the market on mortgage backed instruments and are now holding this form of troubled asset should be eligible for government relief in some form - especially if those who invested unwisely are actually in the business of extending credit, leveraging, and facilitating the flow of capital that greases the real world economy. In contrast, folks who gambled in the credit default swap market should be left to stew in their own juices. If you want to try to make a quick buck behaving like a hedge fund and placing your bets on somebody's else's insolvency, why should taxpayers subsidize your folly when it turns out you were too clever by half?
CDO's are ultimately based upon real people living in real houses in real neighborhoods. Federal assistance (and future regulatory reforms) should preserve that market because, when functioning properly, the leveraging enhances the economy's overall liquidity.
Credit default swaps, however, are based upon nothing but paper profits for wheelers and dealers who simply were trying to lay off and cover other financial bets, manipulating the ups and downs of the Wall Street system.
As I see it, there is zero wider social utility in the whole credit default swap toxic waste market. Those so-called sophisticated investors who chose to speculate in that particular exotic game of chance at the big casino should not now be bailed out by the public treasury, simply because it turns out they were too smart for their own good. Ever so often, it's necessary for the bookie to get burned.
Bill from Saginaw
Sioux Rose
BILL: Thank you for separating the wheat from the chaff in a manner that makes it easier to understand this multi-tiered web of deceit. If the bailout goes to both "camps," what's next is likely bailing out betters in Vegas, since they're essentially playing similar games of craps.
Bill
Allow me to add my compliments to Sioux Rose's. Indeed, very well stated!
Bill,
I will join hands with Thomas and Sioux Rose in extending my compliments to you for the insightful comments you shared with us today concerning this article by Dr. Krugman. I never fail to learn something from your comments Bill. Thank You......
Thomas Gilbert
Bill,
Even if CDOs ultimately reflect something real, they do not produce anything. They are simply a way of packing risk - a useless innovation except to bean counters. The problem is the moment such an instrument comes into existence, our current market allows for others to *bet* on the price of these instruments, and then yet others can place bets on the bets, and so on. It is pretty easy to see how we end up with tens to hundreds of trillions of dollars in toxic assets that are simply vaporware in this fashion. CDOs should go the way of the dinosaurs too.
Couple the above with the way our credit system "creates" money, and we get a really disastrous mix. I was shocked to learn that 20% of our GDP was from finance. Couple that with the fact that we have a 2.4 trillion health care industry of which, conservatively has a 16% overhead, we have at least 22% our GDP (assuming a 14 trillion value) coming from just two industries that provide no value to the society - ugh!