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It’s Not Going to Be OK
The daily bleeding of thousands of jobs will soon turn our economic crisis into a political crisis. The street protests, strikes and riots that have rattled France, Turkey, Greece, Ukraine, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria and Iceland will descend on us. It is only a matter of time. And not much time. When things start to go sour, when Barack Obama is exposed as a mortal waving a sword at a tidal wave, the United States could plunge into a long period of precarious social instability.
At no period in American history has our democracy been in such peril or has the possibility of totalitarianism been as real. Our way of life is over. Our profligate consumption is finished. Our children will never have the standard of living we had. And poverty and despair will sweep across the landscape like a plague. This is the bleak future. There is nothing President Obama can do to stop it. It has been decades in the making. It cannot be undone with a trillion or two trillion dollars in bailout money. Our empire is dying. Our economy has collapsed.
How will we cope with our decline? Will we cling to the absurd dreams of a superpower and a glorious tomorrow or will we responsibly face our stark new limitations? Will we heed those who are sober and rational, those who speak of a new simplicity and humility, or will we follow the demagogues and charlatans who rise up out of the slime in moments of crisis to offer fantastic visions? Will we radically transform our system to one that protects the ordinary citizen and fosters the common good, that defies the corporate state, or will we employ the brutality and technology of our internal security and surveillance apparatus to crush all dissent? We won't have to wait long to find out.
There are a few isolated individuals who saw it coming. The political philosophers Sheldon S. Wolin, John Ralston Saul and Andrew Bacevich, as well as writers such as Noam Chomsky, Chalmers Johnson, David Korten and Naomi Klein, along with activists such as Bill McKibben and Ralph Nader, rang the alarm bells. They were largely ignored or ridiculed. Our corporate media and corporate universities proved, when we needed them most, intellectually and morally useless.
Wolin, who taught political philosophy at the University of California in Berkeley and at Princeton, in his book "Democracy Incorporated" uses the phrase inverted totalitarianism to describe our system of power. Inverted totalitarianism, unlike classical totalitarianism, does not revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader. It finds its expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. It purports to cherish democracy, patriotism and the Constitution while cynically manipulating internal levers to subvert and thwart democratic institutions. Political candidates are elected in popular votes by citizens, but they must raise staggering amounts of corporate funds to compete. They are beholden to armies of corporate lobbyists in Washington or state capitals who write the legislation. A corporate media controls nearly everything we read, watch or hear and imposes a bland uniformity of opinion or diverts us with trivia and celebrity gossip. In classical totalitarian regimes, such as Nazi fascism or Soviet communism, economics was subordinate to politics. "Under inverted totalitarianism the reverse is true," Wolin writes. "Economics dominates politics-and with that domination comes different forms of ruthlessness."
I reached Wolin, 86, by phone at his home about 25 miles north of San Francisco. He was a bombardier in the South Pacific during World War II and went to Harvard after the war to get his doctorate. Wolin has written classics such as "Politics and Vision" and "Tocqueville Between Two Worlds." His newest book is one of the most important and prescient critiques to date of the American political system. He is also the author of a series of remarkable essays on Augustine of Hippo, Richard Hooker, David Hume, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Max Weber, Friedrich Nietzsche, Karl Marx and John Dewey. His voice, however, has faded from public awareness because, as he told me, "it is harder and harder for people like me to get a public hearing." He said that publications, such as The New York Review of Books, which often published his work a couple of decades ago, lost interest in his critiques of American capitalism, his warnings about the subversion of democratic institutions and the emergence of the corporate state. He does not hold out much hope for Obama.
"The basic systems are going to stay in place; they are too powerful to be challenged," Wolin told me when I asked him about the new Obama administration. "This is shown by the financial bailout. It does not bother with the structure at all. I don't think Obama can take on the kind of military establishment we have developed. This is not to say that I do not admire him. He is probably the most intelligent president we have had in decades. I think he is well meaning, but he inherits a system of constraints that make it very difficult to take on these major power configurations. I do not think he has the appetite for it in any ideological sense. The corporate structure is not going to be challenged. There has not been a word from him that would suggest an attempt to rethink the American imperium."
Wolin argues that a failure to dismantle our vast and overextended imperial projects, coupled with the economic collapse, is likely to result in inverted totalitarianism. He said that without "radical and drastic remedies" the response to mounting discontent and social unrest will probably lead to greater state control and repression. There will be, he warned, a huge "expansion of government power."
"Our political culture has remained unhelpful in fostering a democratic consciousness," he said. "The political system and its operatives will not be constrained by popular discontent or uprisings."
Wolin writes that in inverted totalitarianism consumer goods and a comfortable standard of living, along with a vast entertainment industry that provides spectacles and diversions, keep the citizenry politically passive. I asked if the economic collapse and the steady decline in our standard of living might not, in fact, trigger classical totalitarianism. Could widespread frustration and poverty lead the working and middle classes to place their faith in demagogues, especially those from the Christian right?
"I think that's perfectly possible," he answered. "That was the experience of the 1930s. There wasn't just FDR. There was Huey Long and Father Coughlin. There were even more extreme movements including the Klan. The extent to which those forces can be fed by the downturn and bleakness is a very real danger. It could become classical totalitarianism."
He said the widespread political passivity is dangerous. It is often exploited by demagogues who pose as saviors and offer dreams of glory and salvation. He warned that "the apoliticalness, even anti-politicalness, will be very powerful elements in taking us towards a radically dictatorial direction. It testifies to how thin the commitment to democracy is in the present circumstances. Democracy is not ascendant. It is not dominant. It is beleaguered. The extent to which young people have been drawn away from public concerns and given this extraordinary range of diversions makes it very likely they could then rally to a demagogue."
Wolin lamented that the corporate state has successfully blocked any real debate about alternative forms of power. Corporations determine who gets heard and who does not, he said. And those who critique corporate power are given no place in the national dialogue.
"In the 1930s there were all kinds of alternative understandings, from socialism to more extensive governmental involvement," he said. "There was a range of different approaches. But what I am struck by now is the narrow range within which palliatives are being modeled. We are supposed to work with the financial system. So the people who helped create this system are put in charge of the solution. There has to be some major effort to think outside the box."
"The puzzle to me is the lack of social unrest," Wolin said when I asked why we have not yet seen rioting or protests. He said he worried that popular protests will be dismissed and ignored by the corporate media. This, he said, is what happened when tens of thousands protested the war in Iraq. This will permit the state to ruthlessly suppress local protests, as happened during the Democratic and Republic conventions. Anti-war protests in the 1960s gained momentum from their ability to spread across the country, he noted. This, he said, may not happen this time. "The ways they can isolate protests and prevent it from [becoming] a contagion are formidable," he said.
"My greatest fear is that the Obama administration will achieve relatively little in terms of structural change," he added. "They may at best keep the system going. But there is a growing pessimism. Every day we hear how much longer the recession will continue. They are already talking about beyond next year. The economic difficulties are more profound than we had guessed and because of globalization more difficult to deal with. I wish the political establishment, the parties and leadership, would become more aware of the depths of the problem. They can't keep throwing money at this. They have to begin structural changes that involve a very different approach from a market economy. I don't think this will happen."
"I keep asking why and how and when this country became so conservative," he went on. "This country once prided itself on its experimentation and flexibility. It has become rigid. It is probably the most conservative of all the advanced countries."
The American left, he said, has crumbled. It sold out to a bankrupt Democratic Party, abandoned the working class and has no ability to organize. Unions are a spent force. The universities are mills for corporate employees. The press churns out info-entertainment or fatuous pundits. The left, he said, no longer has the capacity to be a counterweight to the corporate state. He said that if an extreme right gains momentum there will probably be very little organized resistance.
"The left is amorphous," he said. "I despair over the left. Left parties may be small in number in Europe but they are a coherent organization that keeps going. Here, except for Nader's efforts, we don't have that. We have a few voices here, a magazine there, and that's about it. It goes nowhere."
- Posted in


314 Comments so far
Show AllAnybody who could see what they (the corporatists) have repeatedly done to independent one-time thriving family farms and the solid caring communities that existed around them and what they are doing even now, EVEN NOW! to the few of us real farmers who are left, could see this coming...
Diseased, sick motherfuck bastards (corporatists).
prisoners now outnumber farmers in the usa...
That is an amazing statistic. I already feel like a prisoner, even though I still live on my farm, but I expect because I refuse to just be quiet and compliant, that I'll be taken from my farm at some point. The barbwire I see then won't be for my cattle and horses it will be for me. This is sick...a nightmare.
Such imbalance cannot exist in nature without a counterbalancing consequence. That we still have people living the illusion that there is some real 'elite' position they can attain and maintain above all others is becoming a puzzle. That dynamic has proven to collapse under the weight of it's own imbalance via natures laws again and again and again.
I see people who have mislead themselves to believe that they will be safer, better, happier at the top. But at the top we do not find safer, better, happier people. Actually the deep irony is that the happiest and most wholesome people are often found amongst those at the bottom. Lincoln came from the bottom, Dr. King came from the bottom, Jesus came from the bottom. But was it the bottom? It all depends on your beliefs and perspective.
Let us have a little mercy and understanding for those confused souls driven like cattle by their own hopes of a better life to the top. They show us what actions often precede misery of the worst sort. They live at the very bottom of the top.
We reject not for it's power, but for it's powerlessness.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
"I see people who have mislead themselves to believe that they will be safer, better, happier at the top. But at the top we do not find safer, better, happier people. Actually the deep irony is that the happiest and most wholesome people are often found amongst those at the bottom. Lincoln came from the bottom, Dr. King came from the bottom, Jesus came from the bottom. But was it the bottom? It all depends on your beliefs and perspective."
All our wise teachers have taught us that avarice is bad and that living simply and lovingly is good.
It's not that we ignore these teachings, it's that we deny they were ever taught. We know in our heart of hearts that the way we (collectively) live is wrong, unhealthy, and unsustainable. There appears to be little we can do to change it, so we choose to deny it and drug ourselves with everything and anything we can lay our hands on.
Those of us who grok this live in two realities. We have to live in this reality because we have not learned another way of being, yet we also have a foot in another reality where we know our deep-seated visions would allow us to live sustainably, wholesomely, and even happily. We don't give up on that vision because we know in our hearts, in our guts, that it is true.
The question we must ask, is: Is there anything we can do as individuals to change? The answer is: Yes.
"The first thing you must do to change direction, is to stop going in the direction you've been traveling in." Tich Nhat Hanh...or some such.
Yes, redirect our energy, thoughts, beliefs, and actions all we can little by little and then big by big. I agree, I agree, I agree!
Thank you Ted and thanks to Tich Nhat Hanh.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Ted Markow wrote:
at the top we do not find safer, better, happier people...the happiest...are often found amongst those at the bottom.
COMMENT:
I've known many rich people (80 foot yacht, multi-jillion category), many poor people (welfare category), and the rich are certainly safer and happier, the desperate poor closer to mental breakdowns and suicide. Rich is better - for the rich. Rich comes at the expense of the poor.
Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jesus happy? Hardly. All three were deeply, profoundly unhappy at the state of the societies of their time.
"We know in our heart of hearts that the way we (collectively) live is wrong, unhealthy, and unsustainable."
You know this, and I know this, but you must not know the comfortably affluent that I have known: to them "big government, welfare and social programs of any kind, regulations that hamper - "cripple" - free enterprise, is wrong, unhealthy, and unsustainable," and they do truly believe this in their heart of hearts. They believe this with a passion that they only pretend for their religion.
Until the mass of Americans understand this, the mass of Americans will not rise up to change the society of the greedy. It has been pointed out often that no civil or labor rights were ever given freely by the ruling or "owning class", but were bitterly fought for and even died for.
You aren't going to change the minds of the true-believers in Mammon anymore than the minds of Christian martyrs of old: the wealthy will cling to their gold to the death. Until this is understood, they will rule. They will give nothing. You want it, you must take it. They did.
First, I didn't write the quote at the top, but included it as a point of reference.
I think what you write has merit, however, I believe those at the top are diseased, and as such, I take their opinions as such.
I am not equating happiness with poverty, nor am I equating unhappiness with great wealth. I have heard of rich people who act the part of happy people, but who are miserable and lonely behind the scenes. Problem is, they have the money to mask their misery and loneliness, where the poor do not.
The mass of Americans will not rise up to change the society of the greedy. This is a pipe dream. The rich own the guns and the lawyers and will crush us. They are the robbers with the fountain pens and they will crush us as insects - and they know this.
No, what I am advocating is that we stop playing their game. They need us more than we need them, and they know it. Their arrogance and "happiness" is a ruse which disguises their abject fear. They know that they need the slave classes to work their corporations and plantations and yachts because they have neither the skill nor the muscle to do so. It's been this way since money was invented.
I am not trying to change the believers in Mammon, I am trying to kill Mammon. The only way to do this is to stop worshiping Mammon ourselves. We, the wanna-be class, must band together and pull the rug right out from under the ruling class, and the only way to do that is to stop buying their shit and change our sense of reality. Literally, stop buying! Money is their blood and we are the source of it. If we stop the flow of their blood - money - they will die. Well, they will create upheaval and kill some of us, as they are wont to do - but they will do it in their death throes. If we can re-connect to that which is real - our human connections and interdependence, we can do this. Separately, we don't stand a chance, and that's just what the ruling class wants - division. We on the bottom must start stripping away the veneer and come together and support each other and help each other to live lighter and leaner and communally.
I don't know of any other way to take it from them. They have the guns...we have the energy they need. It's up to us. It's up to you. It's up to me.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Ted first makes the basic point (paraphrasing here) that elites with their mammon are no happier than the people. Advocate counters with the observation that the elites appear happier than the people. Ted replies with a seeming acceptance that mammon (power, etc) makes people happy, so we have to redistribute it more evenly. I agree that we have to evenly distribute the power. But I disagree with Advocate's suggestion that power concentration brings greatest happiness. In a society that rewards power concentration and ignores the negative fallout, the happiness of elites is a delusion. It's not a solid, deep happiness but more like a hallucinogenic high, or an escape from unresolved fears, or a camouflaged domination thrill. The negatives eventually catch up as we can see today in this society. The elites are now fully discredited. The only way they can maintain their facades of happiness is to further their delusions. So I think Ted should reassess his agreement with Advocate. Yes we have to evenly distribute power but in this we aren't sacrificing happiness, we're enhancing it, by building that solid, deep kind of happiness that comes with a real awareness of our nature, and appreciation for individual responsibility and its rewards.
What? You must mean another Ted Markow.
Read what I said if you want to respond. I mean, really read the whole thing.
Sweet Lord...
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Thank you rtdrury, well said.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
rtdrury wrote:
Advocate's suggestion that power concentration brings greatest happiness.
COMMENT:
Good freaking grief! I suggested nothing of the kind: nothing about power concentration. And nothing about "greatest."
To say that would suggest that I favor such concentration, but I clearly do not: I said: "Rich is better - for the rich." But I also said: "Rich comes at the expense of the poor."
"Expense" is the key word here. Wealth concentration of the few comes at the EXPENSE of the poor.
Is the person who can afford to go to a dentist happier than one who holds his aching jaw in hand because he cannot afford a dentist? Of course, but this certainly doesn't mean I favor wealth concentration anymore than power concentration.
rtdrury wrote:
the happiness of elites is a delusion
we have to evenly distribute power but in this we aren't sacrificing happiness, we're enhancing it,
COMMENT:
I did say: "the rich are certainly safer and happier, the desperate poor closer to mental breakdowns and suicide."
The suicide rate among the wealthy is far lower than among the poor, the conviction for crimes far lower, and prison sentences for crimes almost nil. The rich don't suffer with maladies because they don't have access to quality health care like most of the poor do, and many of the working class such as many of those forty million or more without health insurance. Few are they who are suffering are happy. The rich don't worry about how they are going to put food on the table, stand in lines at the food bank, find a job so they can pay the rent, or suffer so many, many other indignities and miseries. Miseries. Miseries unknown to the affluent.
By evenly distributing wealth, not necessarily power, we (society) would be alleviating the pains of poverty, and the insecurities of many workers and small business people. Through even distribution of wealth, that which allows greater happiness for the rich (freedom from fear of want, fulfillment of needs, security), and denies it to many of the poor and workers will be redressed.
As for comparative happiness of rich and poor: Sophie Tucker said: "I've been rich and I’ve been poor -- and believe me, rich is better."
So many who don't have wealth love to think that those that do aren't happy - this comforts those of modest means that they are not rich. Now that truly is a delusion.
advocate, I'm curious, do you have any wealth?
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Ted Markow wrote:
I didn't write the quote at the top...
stop buying their shit...
Literally, stop buying!
I believe those at the top are diseased...
COMMENT:
Oops, my humble apologies for not noticing a quote and mis-crediting. In my haste to get off the computer and to a meeting, I blundered. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
I think the times of Che & Fidel and violent revolution is over in most countries, and utterly unrealistic in the US simply because the mass of people are ignorant of how the system works and wouldn't fall in behind the revolution's leaders.
However, I can't imagine getting the masses to stop buying in the US. In the US, the epitome of a consumerist society! in a society where "shop 'till I drop" is a popular even ubiquitous, uncriticized slogan? That, I'm afraid, is even less realistic. Nor, would it actually work: if the ruling class gets our labor and our money through taxes, they can steal from the rest of the world while letting us simmer on the back burner in our own juices of self-denial.
If the entire work force didn't give its labor and its money in the form of purchases or taxes to the owning class, and took what they needed and shared resources with each other, then the people could take over the country. I say "take" instead of "take back" because the owning class ruled from the moment they signed the Constitution.
But that is every bit as unrealistic as armed revolution or simple consumer boycott. What is realistic in my less-than-humble opinion? Only an educated or desperate population that would turn to a third party, or pick anti-establishment candidates in primaries in one of the two established political parties and thereby take them over.
Alas, I don't see even that happening in any foreseeable future. Yet, someday, maybe. I look to the examples of Venezuela and Bolivia for hope, while at the same time recognizing that allegiance to Mammon and unrealistic expectations of joining the ruling elite in the US is stronger than it was in those countries.
Those at the top are not necessarily diseased: most are thriving quite robustly, much like a colony of pinworms in your colon might. No, most of the ruling class are quite healthy: they aren't diseased: they ARE the disease in the body politic, and like pinworms they will thrive unless we flush them out. Or perhaps they are more like a virus and will thrive until they destroy their host: the nation.
I'm sorry to take a stance of absolute disagreement with you advocate, but this time I do.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Leea wrote:
I'm sorry to take a stance of absolute disagreement with you advocate, but this time I do.
COMMENT:
Really? Absolute? Absolute everything? You're sorry? Did I say the sky was blue and you disagree? Or, what is it that you disagree with? You didn't bother to say.
Sorry, I did not bother to respond in any significant way. I would like to say that I don't have the time, but that is no excuse.
I think that you have an excellent point.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
I guess the difference is WHERE you're poor. It is a fact, that people in poorer countries often are happier that people in the wealthiest parts of the world.
I'm not talking about places where people starve. I'm talking about places that function, where people are content with what they have and they have less but having less is the norm and they don't expect more - life is hard but that's life.
If I remember right it was Nepal that was found to be the happiest place on earth in some survey? That's the type of poor I'm talking about. Although we might find the life in Nepal hard it is in many ways simplier than the life in the West, where we feel, we have to have what others have and after we've got it we worry what if we lose it.
I believe that wealth is reassuring - you don't need to worry about how to pay your bills. Obviously it makes it easier to get 'stuff' but the researchers are pretty certain by now that stuff doesn't make us happy.
Yes, the research indicates that the first million gives you a feeling of profound happiness, but soon the feeling subsides so you start working on the next million to get that feeling again, but guess what? The second and the subsequent millions never feel as good as the first one.
So, I agree that those poor in America who struggle to put the food on the table and to keep a roof over their heads surely have more misery than happiness in their lifes than the American rich, however if we understand being poor as a way of life that advocates making do with little, being more than just a passive consumer of goods - put simply a different lifestyle than the Western lifestyle then these people are definitely happier.
I recall reading about another survey recently that proclamed the Danes the happiest people of all. Actually most Scandinavian countries came on top of the list. Apparently a pleasant work-life balance, with people leaving the office on time does the trick. They're all reasonably well off, they have a reliable social safety net and good public services. Yes, they're all highly taxed, but the so accumulated wealth is redistributed to universal free health care, retirement pensions, generous unemployment benefits and first-rate public schools etc. They have an efficient and clean public transport.
It's true, no-one will ever be as rich in Denmark as the rich in America, but the simple economic security people have suffices for most of them to feel good. Their lifestyle is simplier, they ride their bikes, they let their children ride their bikes, they feel secure and that they don't have to do anything except let go. They trust the institution of government an they believe that their country is well run.
Some critisize this relaxed attitude as low expectations of life. It's true the Danes don't want to make it from shoe cleaner to millionaire but I think there is nothing wrong with that. It's not lack of ambition - it's like in Nepal - people are content with what they've got and enjoy their simple life. Seen this way - expecting less and having less and being fine with that - poor beats rich also.
COMMENT:
What em-y wrote is a post worth reading. Love it.
em-y wrote:
the difference is WHERE you're poor. It is a fact, that people in poorer countries often are happier that people in the wealthiest parts of the world.
COMMENT:
Oh, absolutely. Some of the happiest people I've come across were in remote rural areas of Ecuador, supposedly the poorest rural area in South America.
em-y wrote:
researchers are pretty certain by now that stuff doesn't make us happy
COMMENT:
I'm pretty certain that is correct: stuff doesn't, however lack of adequate health care or other basic necessities like food can seriously reduce happiness and many places, including the US do not have it.
em-y wrote:
the happiest people of all. Actually most Scandinavian countries came on top of the list.
COMMENT:
And Scandinavian countries all have quality universal health care, food security, and economic security.
em-y wrote:
THE SIMPLE ECONOMIC SECURITY PEOPLE HAVE SUFFICES FOR MOST OF THEM TO FEEL GOOD
COMMENT:
Best sentence in this incredibly long list of responses. Worth shouting about. Wish I'd said it instead of fumbling around. You've hit on it, em-y: the rich are happier than the "people at the bottom" in the US because the rich have economic security and the "people at the bottom" do not. Pretty darn simple and ought to be obvious.
I am copying your response to save because it deserves rereading.
Just have to chuckle as I read these last two excellent posts... Reminds me of something I watched years ago on PBS. I remember they were interviewing a very old African American, and they asked him the question about whether wealth brings happiness. Well no, he said, from what he'd seen it doesn't, but to be too poor does not bring happiness either. To be in the middle (in other words to have, as mentioned, ECONOMIC SECURITY) brings (or can bring) happiness. Advocate, I saved that old man's words as well. They are copied somewhere in my brain. Nice to put that old memory to words after all these years!
Wow, what a wonderful thread! Yay!
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Lots of people saw it coming. Anyone with a sense of worker's history should have seen it coming. Anyone with even a semblance of common sense should have been able to conclude that the system of increases in profits, and of increases in the rates of increasing profits was heading toward calamity. Unfortunately, even now, when the obvious is about to smack all of us in the head, the die-hard cultists who have placed all their eggs in the greed Capitalist (redundant) basket refuse to come to terms with the system's inherent demise. There needs to exist a new economic paradigm based upon people first. The situation now is extremely dangerous as the Capitalists when cornered for the last time always resort to war to stimulate the collapsing economic infrastructure. Notice the talk these days of bringing back the draft. And what is one to make of the First Brigade and the doing away with the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878? I think we know.
Hedges is right when he quotes, "The American left...has crumbled. It sold out to a bankrupt Democratic Party, abandoned the working class and has no ability to organize. Unions are a spent force. The universities are mills for corporate employees. The press churns out info-entertainment or fatuous pundits. The left, he said, no longer has the capacity to be a counterweight to the corporate state. He said that if an extreme right gains momentum there will probably be very little organized resistance." Ayep. Love those lefties, i.e., Democrats, liberals and so-called progressives and their new (age) found "Messiah".
http://www.metaphoria.org/ac4t0606a.html
Binban good --------- I do believe Obama may prove to be even more authoritarian than bush. There is no discussion of repeal of the new surveillance and police control laws. ----------------- Thanks --------- Peace
Wonderful! Loved it!
And I think virtually everyone who comments at CD knows the answers to these questions posed by Hedges:
How will we cope with our decline? Will we cling to the absurd dreams of a superpower and a glorious tomorrow or will we responsibly face our stark new limitations? Will we heed those who are sober and rational, those who speak of a new simplicity and humility, or will we follow the demagogues and charlatans who rise up out of the slime in moments of crisis to offer fantastic visions? Will we radically transform our system to one that protects the ordinary citizen and fosters the common good, that defies the corporate state, or will we employ the brutality and technology of our internal security and surveillance apparatus to crush all dissent?
One thing I would add to Wolin's explanations for the apathy of the youth is the technological development of a great many highly satisfying entertainment systems, including those of the pharmaceutical variety as well as those based on integrated circuits, that serve both as opiates and distractions, keeping the youth preoccupied and uninquisitive.
I don't know what youth this elder gentleman is hanging around, but I haven't come across one apathetic youth in my life. This guy however, seems to be the epitome of apathy.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
You wrote:
"I don't know what youth this elder gentleman is hanging around, but I haven't come across one apathetic youth in my life."
I think you are very lucky if you know so many politically aware and engaged young people, but I would bet that your experience is unusual. I know a number of young people, and very few of them are politically aware or even care. The young people I know are not apathetic when it comes to their own short-term needs and desires, but are completely oblivious to the threats to the long-term welfare of the society and the role of the political system with regard to addressing such threats.
This may be no puzzle, I live in a farming/ranching community. The youth are still expected to meet the basic tenets of being human. So perhaps it is the adults in your area that are the problem?
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
The young people I know are in Austin and Houston, and I have no reason to believe that they, or the adults involved in their development, are fundamentally different from those in other US cities. But I agree with you that young people coming to maturity in rural/farming areas in the US do have a relatively better chance of developing healthy attitudes toward life and society, especially if they get a quality education.
I've seen a lot of younger people out in my rural area and surrounding rural areas who are no different in their attitudes. They do not have iPods but there's plenty to keep them politically unaware and even taught to cave in to the elites just like their current parents. Unfortunately, the petrocollapse which will cripple the rural areas first before it makes it to the big cities could change everything.
Leea wrote:
I haven't come across one apathetic youth in my life.
COMMENT:
One? Not even one? Wow! Your life must be quite sheltered. Get out more. Visit some public high schools, you'll come across many. Perhaps you can locate one of the many burnt-out teachers who just couldn't take it anymore and quit teaching. Ask them about apathetic youth. I've met quite a goodly number: burnt-out teachers and apathetic youth.
When it comes to recognizing, understanding, and caring about the violent and imperialistic plutocracy that rules the United States, the vast majority of the nation's youth is apathetic. Oh - and so is the vast majority of the elders and everyone in between.
No advocate, not one apathetic youth. I find youth that have been failed by those responsible for their well being and the obvious symptoms that follow. Despair, fear, swallowed happiness.
Perhaps you can listen to the song working class hero by John Lenon. Unlike you I stopped blaming children for their problems, because they are children. Therefore what I see is beauty hidden in a child, the hope for the future.
Apathy is your vision and no matter how many apathetic children you see, you are not going to win some war of idealism with me here, because you will only have great apathy to wield.
Like all of us, you have great caring advocate, but you need to burn off some of what is clouding your vision for application.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Bravo!
I must say I don't have lots of good things to say about young people. It's the usual: they're lazy, apathetic, violent, disrespectful, materialistic, etc, etc.... But -how comes? They don't fall from the sky. Somebody brought them into this world, somebody raised them. Somebody was supposed to teach them things, explain things to them, make social creatures out of them. Somebody obviously didn't. We might complain about it but until we actually DO something about THAT we'll continue to have plenty to complain about. As the old saying goes: It takes a village to raise a child. Mind you, I'd be happy if at least the families did their job...
Leea wrote:
Unlike you I stopped blaming children for their problems
COMMENT:
Oh, puleeeze! Read more carefully.
First someone thinks I suggested that power concentration brings greatest happiness - I said no such thing, and now you are saying that I blame children for their problems when, again: I said no such thing! Reading carefully with understanding seems to be a skill in this forum some should hone more keenly.
Simply describing a person as ill, is not a diagnosis of the cause. Describing a person as apathetic is not a diagnosis of the cause. A child who is apathetic may be so for a myriad of reasons such as poor nutrition or inadequate nutrition, inept and boring teachers, bad parenting, limited learning skills, limited intelligence, unrecognized physical problems such as dyslexia, and more. None of these are the fault of a child and I would not, and did not, say they were.
Leea wrote:
"win some war of idealism with me here"
COMMENT:
War? There's a war? You said, and I presume believe, that "at the top we do not find safer, better, happier people," while you think "the happiest...are amongst those at the bottom." In your opinion that is true, in my opinion it is not. And this is what you call a "war of idealism"?
If, in your opinion, you believe that people with ills they can't afford to seek help for while working for poverty wages at jobs they hate, jobs that make them ill, while wondering if they'll be able to pay the rent, wondering if they will even have that job in a month that they hate but need, trying to make meals with out-of-date canned goods from the local food bank, knowing the next time they get an aching tooth they'll have to get it pulled because they can't afford a root canal and crown, are happier than those whose names are on buildings, banks, businesses, mills, and the society pages, those with whom I've dined with, drunk with, danced with, at some of the finest country clubs in the Northeast, then I can't argue with your opinion. My opinion is based on living up close and personal with both extremes, that's all.
"You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts." -Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
To assemble a sufficient body of facts to adequately support either view is a project beyond the scope of what is here basically an opinion forum. However, I might start out with a recent article in JAMA that shows that those with means have better access to cardio health than those that don't. If death from undiagnosed or untreated heart disease is happiness, then the poor will get happiness quicker, I suppose.
You don't have to dig far in your research to find studies that show that the those with lower incomes suffer more health problems than the affluent. If, as some say, health is happiness, the rich win, the poor lose in the happiness war.
advocate, my comments were in regard to the matter that i thought was being discussed and this was that children are "apathetic", and the clear intention of the people involved in this discussion, which was to say basically that they are bad children, and they don't care about what is happening, and that this is a huge problem. I have heard this many times, in many ways. I don't choose to say children are apathetic or as my dictionary states it; 1. Lacking emotion. 2. Indifferent, unconcerned. The last thing youth are lacking in is emotion and they are typically filled with concern. I did not think we were talking about children's faults, I thought we were talking about children's condition. So in this case there is no ideological war because why would anyone believe that the children of this nation in general are as a condition lacking in this way and that it is specific to them? I was trying to make a point. Children are lacking a good education, they are lacking good support, they are lacking a good government. If because of this we see them act in certain ways, what can we expect? I would not use the word apathetic with children, it just does not seem to suit.
As far as happiness depending on ones wealth, I still believe, based on what I see occurring in the world that wealth is not the determinant of happiness. It is one determinant but there is an illusion that makes it seem so, especially when it comes down to access of health care being the deciding factor in happiness. Health is one factor in happiness but it in no way insures it, and there are plenty of healthy people who are still not happy. Perhaps our difference in opinion here has to do with our difference of focus, I'm not sure.
In my opinion I am entitled to my own facts, I don't subscribe to others telling me what makes the world go round if my own experience must be the sacrificial factor to that subscription. Though I do listen to and consider what I see, hear and experience. How else can we change?
As usual I bear no ill feelings toward you, we are merely sharing with each other and that is where I put the value of participation. I learn from your input, so thank you for the exchange.
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
"One thing I would add to Wolin's explanations for the apathy of the youth is the technological development of a great many highly satisfying entertainment systems, including those of the pharmaceutical variety as well as those based on integrated circuits, that serve both as opiates and distractions, keeping the youth preoccupied and uninquisitive."
Each generation seems to say this about the younger generations. I came of age in the '70s, before computers and cell phones and iPods (though, there were plenty of other distractions, including teevee, movies, and plenty of drugs) and we were all preoccupied with ourselves and our lives. I think the generation of the 60's were the most socially and politically aware and active. However, the Man has learned since then and has it figured out how to squelch dissent before it gets noticed.
I do agree that our entertainment and penchant for walling ourselves off from our communities is a big problem and a symptom of the way our culture is. Bread and circus still works.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
I also came of age in the 1970s. The 1960s had a little something called the "draft," which certainly increased political activism, as did the fact that several times as many of the youth were physically involved in the colonial war of the day. And I agree that the elders have always complained about the corruption and disinterest of the youth, but that does not mean that technology has not over time created more powerful and compelling distractions. "The Man" has been the recipient of a great gift with the creation of the more powerful and sophisticated distractions, and he is not reluctant to take full advantage.
If you really think of young people as undereducated, overentertained drones, how prepared would you be to organize and work with them?
"The puzzle to me is the lack of social unrest,"
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In the remaining weeks of the Bush administration, Ben Bernanke, Fed Chairman, secretly gave away at least 2.2 TRILLION dollars and pledged to give away up to 6 TRILLION more.
The news service Bloomberg filed endless FOIA request asking where the money went and what was given as collateral.
The Fed Responded by saying NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
The fact that literally generations of wealth was STOLEN from the American people, consigning their children and their children to lives of possible enslavement to the corporate state and no large scale protests took place leaves one scratching one's head.
But then you point out that this story was almost completely censored by the mass (corporate) media and you being to understand the awesome power of controlling the information.
The media creates reality.
If they don't report $8 TRILLION dollars unaccounted for then it NEVER HAPPENED, right?
Subsequently, no riots tooks place. Few people protested. The calm was never broken.
It's not going to be OK.
It shouldn't be OK.
Until we get control of our airwaves back it's only going to get worse.
---------------
Whoever controls the media controls the country. Period.
Good Cygnus --------- Continuously Hammer the Media to present the facts! ------- Thanks ---------------------- ------------- Peace
What, then, are we to do?
Prepare.
Short, pithy, and right on.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
If you believe their revelatory statements, nothing.
Do you believe it?
What happens when snowflakes stick together?...............friends come together and have snow ball fights. :)
Leea
Saltmarch------------ Form micro-communities which will provide Air, Water, Earth, Food, Shelter and Love. ---------- Thanks ------------ Peace ----
I have been saying basically this same thing on CD for years:
"I despair over the left. Left parties may be small in number in Europe but they are a coherent organization that keeps going. Here, except for Nader's efforts, we don't have that. We have a few voices here, a magazine there, and that's about it. It goes nowhere."
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It goes nowhere because the American left does not face limitations, it continually thinks that we can do the European system by running a bunch of folks who are good at pointing out the problems but cant get elected because this is not Europe.
Our winner take all system is practically set in Stone because it has evolved from our history of American Imperium and Corporate power. We know this, so what are we doing about it?
If we want to change it or make it better the Real Left needs to infiltrate the Republican Party because that is how Political Power is given a voice and elected. We know Big Money controls most everything so the Real Left needs to get involved with that Power... if we can't beat um, Join um and Change um.
Anyone Got any better idea? We can still hit the streets, boycott Israel, get involved in the community, walk and chew gum and 3rd parties can become a base for education, face reality and work on how to influence the system from within instead of the usual suspects who want us to keep pissing in the Wind.
In other words if you are a frustrated Leftist and have given up on the Dems, Infiltrate the system and become secret agents of change! We don't need anyones permission to jump out of the Box.
I think I am talking myself into it... Where do I sign up?
Cheers
>>Jim Glover: If we want to change it or make it better the Real Left needs to infiltrate the Republican Party.
eew!Are you serious? To me it sounds like a vegetarian has to join other meat eaters to change them or a non-smoker has to be among the smokers to make changes. Have you found anyone to volunteer for your grand scheme? :) OK, kidding apart, how about working with people who are more genuine in their ideas, speech and action - such as Ralph Nader? It will be a life well-spent even if one doesn't succeed in one's lifetime. I see your point, though. What could be done, however, is to apply some of the organizational, fund-raising and slick marketing techniques in the cause of a truly progressive movement. Nowhere does it say that choice must be limited to only between the Dem's and the Repub's.
Highintel: Can we do better?
Well this is a new idea... an alternate strategy I am proposing.
I see your point "Nowhere does it say that choice must be limited to only between the Dem's and the Repub's." Yet winner take all is still what our system has evolved into and evolution is hard to break.
I think Ralph Nader would get more traction if he would speak before Republicans than at rallies where a few show up preaching to the Choir. He could draw big crowds and the Republicans are looking for answers too... I think most of them realize that they have been fooling themselves about many things and that the neo cons burned them badly.
The purpose of political parties is to gain political power and I think even most Republicans are wondering where we are goin and if all this bailout money is gonna screw us down the road with double and triple national Debt. If you are happy to spend a lifetime trying to convince America that Ralph can change the system, You should continue.
I am just saying if something isn't working, figure out why and try something else.
We have the same goals, I am sure, but I am looking for a road that is not a dead end and for me life is too short to waste on what does not work anymore.
Jim 11:55 Congradulations !!!! You have articulated the ultimate in bravery; donning a pinstripped suit and crawling into the belly of the beast!! May the Force be With You!!!
Thanks glenn, I'll need it.
"In other words if you are a frustrated Leftist and have given up on the Dems, Infiltrate the system and become secret agents of change! We don't need anyones permission to jump out of the Box."
I see your point, Jim, but isn't infiltrating the system still playing by the system's rules?
I wonder what would happen if we dodged the systems rules. What if we really jumped out of the Box and just didn't play. What if we stop buying into it...by literally stop buying corporate stuff? I mean, what keeps this system going? What is the blood that keeps the corporate/capitalist system alive? And what would happen if we start rerouting the arteries that feed the system's brain with that blood - our money and life energy - to other systems that the brain has shut down? What if we spent less, saved more, purchased from local farmers and businesses only things that were produced locally and sustainably? What if we banded together with others who are of like mind and started sharing resources and knowledge? Would we not then really jump out of the Box?
Another analogy: What would happen if we, the people, the base of the pyramid, just gave way. What is a pyramid without a base? What is a room without a floor? What are the rich without their servants?
If we're going to jump out of the Box, let's really jump out of the Box. Let's help this system crumble by building another system. As I've said many times - it is up to us...and only us. We don't need to organize to do this, though, at some point, it will happen. All we need to do...is to stop. Can Americans just stop? Can we?
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope