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Record Arctic Ice Melt Threatens Global Security
All the analysis and commentary about safety and security on the tenth anniversary of 9/11 ignored by far the biggest ongoing threat to global security: climate change.
This data visualisation from the Aqua satellite show the maximum sea ice extent for 2008-09.
(graphic: NASA Goddard's Scientific Visualization Studio) Just days before Sunday's commemoration of the attacks, German scientists pointed to yet another smoking gun of climate change: the Arctic sea ice reached a new historic minimum ice extent.
The rapidity with which the planet is losing its northern ice cap continues to astonish experts. The defrosting northern pole is one of the prime drivers of Earth's climate system and is changing global weather patterns in unpredictable ways.
The Arctic ice melt is also accelerating the rate of climate change beyond what humanity is doing with every barrel of oil, tonne of coal or cubic meter of gas burned.
On Sept. 8, researchers at the University of Bremen in Germany reported that the Arctic ice melt bettered the previous minimum of 2007. Other research centers using different satellite and analysis tools say the extraordinary decline of ice in 2007 has not yet been exceeded this year and 2011 remains a close second.
"We think it will end up a little bit short of the record - not that it really matters," said Mark Serreze, director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center in the U.S. city of Boulder, Colorado.
"What is extraordinary this year is that there was no weird weather pattern that created the perfect conditions for the record melt in 2007," Serreze told IPS.
This year, the summer weather was normal and yet it the ice vanished in similar amounts to 2007.
"That tells us the sea ice is too thin now to hold up under normal weather conditions," he said.
Both the Northwest Passage and the Northern Sea Route across the Arctic are wide open again, as has happened almost every year since 2007. An oil tanker recently crossed the Arctic Ocean in the record time of eight days traveling from Houston, Texas to Map Ta Phut, Thailand.
This summer's ice loss is double the summer ice melt of 30 to 40 years ago. A child born at the advent of the satellite era, when humanity had its first complete look at the frozen vastness, would be 32 years old today. Now they would see that more than three million square kilometers of ice - about the size of India - has vanished this summer compared to the summer they were born.
It is now virtually certain a child born in 1979 will not reach 50 years of age before the Arctic is ice-free in the summer. That is a rapid change on a planetary scale, with far-reaching consequences that scientists are just beginning to understand.
One consequence is the acceleration of global warming as the Arctic flips from all white to dark blue, with the ocean absorbing tremendous amounts of heat from the 24-hour summer sun. That shift in albedo - from white to dark - is expected to add an additional amount of heat energy of about 0.3 watts per square meter over the entire land and water surface of the planet, calculates Stephen Hudson of the Norwegian Polar Institute.
Hudson based his calculation on the Arctic having no ice for one month and decreased ice at all other times of the year.
That's enough additional energy to power an LED night light for each square meter of the 510 million square meters that comprise the Earth's surface. That will raise global temperatures about 0.25 C, John Abraham of the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota told IPS.
Of course, most of that tremendous amount of heat will reside first in the Arctic, where temperatures are already an average of three to five degrees C higher than 30 to 40 years ago. This winter parts of the Arctic were 21 C above normal for a month.
All that additional heat threatens to light the fuse of the world's biggest "carbon bomb", the vast permafrost region spanning 13 million square kilometers across Alaska, Canada, Siberia and parts of northern Europe.
Permafrost contains at least twice as much carbon as is currently present in the atmosphere. Even if a small percentage of this is released, catastrophic climate change is likely, experts believe. Permafrost has been slowly thawing for the last two decades and the rate of thaw is accelerating with rising temperatures, world expert on permafrost Vladimir Romanovsky of the University of Alaska in Fairbanks told IPS previously.
This will have profound impacts on human populations around the globe. According to figures from the Global Governance Project, by the year 2050, the world will have 200 million climate-displaced refugees on its hands, the majority of them from low-lying coastal areas, as a result of rising water levels.
While this climate change calamity gains momentum, the U.S. and most of the industrialized world have been distracted by the relatively trivial threat of terrorism and have spent trillions of dollars on defence and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The U.S. could generate 100 percent of its electricity from wind, solar, tidal and geothermal for much less than it has spent on defence and wars in the last decade, said Richard Heinberg, energy expert and senior fellow at the California-based Post Carbon Institute.
However, the U.S. economy is in such poor shape, Heinberg, author of the new book "The End of Growth", told IPS, that the country is no longer financially capable of doing this. Nor can it afford to continue to burn fossil fuels.
"We're going to be forced to use a lot less energy sooner or later," he said.

100 Comments so far
Show All"Record Arctic Ice Melt Threatens Global Security
If the word "security" means it threatens ALL life on Earth, security is the correct word.
During much of the geologic Cretaceous period the air and ocean temperatures were higher than currently predicted for 2099 and the sea levels were then also much higher than predicted for 2099. Most of non-mountainous Texas was under water. There must have been much CO2 and CH4 in the upper atmosphere then. At the end of that period 75% of all species had vanished but not because of global warming but because of the large meteorite impact at the tip of Yucatan. Nevertheless, here we are and there is plenty of life around us. While all life on Earth may be now threatened to different degrees, the current global heating does not mean the end of all life on Earth. After all, 25% of the species survived what appears to have been a gigantic catastrophe at the end of the Cretaceous.
Well that is all very interesting ~~Crowsnest~~ but you are intentionally talking about oranges and what is happenng now is apples. I see you managed to sneak in a the top of the comments after a day has passed with this thread being posted.
We all here know you are a pro GW denier so don't be connfused by facts... As usual you downplay the effects of a very high atmosperic Co2 level, rapidly rising CH4 levels and the result of global warming and dramatic world wide climate changes, the massive loss of Arctic sea ice and permafrost and the very possible repeat of mass extintion of all life, life down to the microbrial level. as occurred 250 million years ago. We are now speeding down that track and it isn't my idea.
The vast majorityof the comments already posted here, less two from a couple of other GW deniers make sense, your's does not Crowsnest... Sorry to see you are still here posting your intentional distrotions of the facts and the truth in an attempt to confuse the issue... And you are so pleasant and nice too.
Crowsnest wrote: "At the end of that period 75% of all species had vanished but not because of global warming but because of the large meteorite impact at the tip of Yucatan."
Your attribution of causes is reductionist. In the real world, multiple inputs combine to form causes. Denialists often engage in such single cause reductionism, as when they say great storms are caused by natural variability, not by AGW. In actuality, it can be easily shown that there's an element of both in every great storm these days.
As to the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event, there were any number of things going on. Notably, India was scraping across the ocean floor, leaving Africa and headed for Asia. That, and volcanic activity subsequent to the meteor you mention did indeed trigger one of the most extreme episodes of global warming in geologic history, culminating in the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, or PETM, 55 mya. No serious person could say global warming was not part of the picture with the most recent extinction event.
I must be misunderstanding your point here. You seem to be saying that life has weathered "a gigantic catastrophe" in the past, so what is everyone worried about? Most of Texas under water, 75% of species wiped out, what's the big deal? If this is not a parody, you need help.
Excellent reply to Crowsnest... Perfect!
Crowsnest, I'm afraid you can't get a nuanced discussion of climate change here. If you want a real left wing perspective on AGW try alethonews.wordpress.com. All I get out of these posts is a reaffirmation of my quitting the Green Party. I've called myself an environmentalist for 40 years, but these people scare the hell out of me.
Glad to hear that ~~Inh~~ ... You have already well proven what you are on other threads here... You should take your own advice and go with the Crow to that other site, where you won't be frightened and can maintain your internal Hell.
I think you know the damage you're doing and you're doing it on purpose. I am not the denier here. I actually worked in atmospheric science and climate change. I'm not denying their is a CO2 effect, I'm saying it's exaggerated. The deniers are people like you who denying the real man made origins of climate change, pretending that its all CO2.
You can dismiss everything that someone says by saying it's coal company propaganda. Yet you get very touch when someone else points out that you keep spouting nuke industry lies. Did you ever read the poll that says 97% of scientists believe in CAGW? I guessed not, because that isn't what the poll asked.
Go ahead, ruin the environmental movement. Make us all look like idiots.
~~Inh~~... You have the gall to write to me, "I think you know the damage you're doing and you're doing it on purpose."
Just yestertday on another thread you accused me with a back-stabbing sneaky jab of being a nuker shill, and lied about Al Gore being a pro nuker... I proved you wrong on both counts.... And any who have read my comments on Fukushima or nuclear power threads knows you are lying about me.
You continually write comments here that the clearly damaging effects of the current high atmospheric Co2 levels are "exaggerated" and so on, saying the authors of articls are wrong, etc, babbling ignorant comments and disrupting threads with your denying nonsense. __ That alone show you up for what you are.
You are a GW Denier ~Inh~ and attempt to hide that fact by mincing words as you did in your post I am replying to now. You actully make ~Mark Abram~ sem to be credible.
You also have suggested on other threads, as you have here, that commenters here at CD leave and not bother with the ignorant type of CDers who are not credible... You were saying that about ~~Aleph Null~~, one of CDs most knowagable and best teachers.
It is you ~Inh~ who does damage by writng the things you do, hoping to create doubt in other's minds... Whom do you believe you are fooling here? __ just you.
When you and your type disagree with what I post and attack me, I am quite satisfied that I am doing some good... To have an intelligent debate on an issue and have honest disagreements is not your style... Your style is that of a pro GW denier.
And finally, you wrote, ("I actually worked in atmospheric science and climate change.") Really? _ Who with, Anthony Watts? __ LMAOff !!!
To... CrowsNest....... ...........Okay, then you make sure you are one of the first to go....along with your off spring and your friends too.... the point of learning about how Humans are affecting the climate is so WE CAN STOP.... if we are adding to our own pain of loss then we should figure out how what we are doing wrong
Right!
So it's back to the neo-Carboniferous Period and we'll just evolve into reptiles and wait for the next big asteroid impact.
That satellite image showing the top of our planet, should be all white.
What a terrible does of reality. I'm glad the scientists are pointing it out.
The article refers to the large amounts of carbon in the permafrost. I assume that this will be released in the form of methane and not carbon dioxide when the permafrost melts. Could someone explain this?
There is methane in the permafrost, yes indeed. There is also an enormous amount of methane in the form of marine clathrates (undersea methane ice) ready to thaw and bubble up into the atmosphere. And there's at least one urgent scientific mission into northern regions right now to assess the scale of the problem. Northern explorers have noted quite a lot of bubbling in the Siberian sea and from ponds which are forming in the tundra, but we don't have many years of such observations for comparisons - so nobody's quite sure whether the methane bomb is starting to discharge immediately, or maybe in a few years.
Methane (CH4) is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. The size of methane deposits is staggering. These deposits have accumulated from biological activity for many millions of years, sequestered by polar freezing. The amount of CH4 in marine clathrates alone has been estimated at around twice the size of all other hydrocarbon reservoirs.
If it starts to bubble into the atmosphere, we'll likely have no way to make it stop before it's all been discharged. Anthropogenic greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions are on the verge of triggering a release of "natural" GHGs which will dwarf human emissions.
The tough part of this for me, philosophically, is the realization that the momentum of heating which is currently in the system is probably enough to carry us over the methane-bomb tipping point. There's a lag in the system. On a similar issue, an oceanographer recently said: "We've mailed ourselves a package, and it's impossible to cancel delivery."
Aleph Null, you left out the part that this has happened in the past, with devastating consequences.
You're right, previous detonations of the clathrate gun are an essential piece of the methane story.
Consider the 93 million mile view for a moment. A star the size of our sun gradually burns hotter over millions of years. Meanwhile, the Earth as a whole (aka Gaia) has maintained temperatures in the narrow range hospitable to complex life forms. How does the Earth pull off this magic trick? The carbon cycle is central to the Earth's temperature equilibrium.
The temporal trigger of ice-age/interglacial cycles is orbital eccentricities which operate over tens of thousands of years, very slightly varying solar insolation. But the solar trigger per se is not enough to account for the temperature dynamics of an ice age cycle, it has always been greatly augmented by positive feedbacks, primarily from the carbon cycle. Like a top which balances by spinning, the Earth has maintained a fragile temperature equilibrium by bouncing between ice ages and interglacials.
While these ice-age cycles are playing out, some carbon from biological sources is continually leaching into frozen reservoirs (permafrost and clathrates). Over many ice-age cycles and tens of millions of years, methane deposits keep growing. The "clathrate gun" (more like a bomb, really) is getting stuffed with ammunition, waiting for a great heating event to discharge it.
Previous detonations of the clathrate gun correspond with the five great extinction events in geologic history. This resembles another cycle, a meta-cycle containing hundreds of smaller warming/cooling cycles. Something happens to warm the earth more than usual (a great meteor impact, an extraordinary volcanic outburst, a continental collision), then that warming triggers further warming from thawing methane.
"Devastating" is a value judgement. The last time this happened, it was devastating for dinosaurs, and an ecological niche was opened up for the evolution of large mammals. At some point, however, Earth systems may lose their ability to moderate solar heating, starting the transition to a dead planet (the "Venus Syndrome").
The issue of the "Greenhouse Gases" is a fascinating one. Apparently the increased CO2 content of the atmosphere at the end of the Cretaceous period decreased during the early Tertiary owing to the continued formation of huge masses of limestone in the oceans. That process presumably also kept the atmospheric CO2 content from increasing too much during the Cretaceous itself. Now, what happens to the very dangerous CH4? It cannot be used by plants or animals. My hunch is that is is converted in the atmosphere to CO or CO2, or both plus H2O either by photolysis with molecular oxygen or by chemical reaction with ozone. The reaction with ozone releases free energy hence should proceed spontaneously. I have no information how fast that conversion would be. It depends of course on the concentration of ozone in the atmosphere. The photochemical conversion depends on the concentration of molecular oxygen in the atmosphere which apparently was significantly larger during the Cretaceous than today. Do you have any quantitative information on both processes?
Your hunch is well-founded. Methane is a more potent GHG than CO2, but much less stable. CO2 is an incredibly stable molecule. Unfortunately, CO2 is one of the results when CH4 breaks down.
There are many chemical routes to methane breakdown. Wikipedia comes to the rescue again with an excellent discussion of Atmospheric Methane.
Reaction with the hydroxyl radical (in the atmosphere):
CH4 + ·OH → ·CH3 + H2O
Methane oxidation (in soils):
CH4 + 2O2→ CO2 + 2H2O
Google has a search facility focused on scientific literature called google scholar which is invaluable for technical questions like this.
scholar.google.com
~~Crowsnest's~~ "hunch" is wrong... CH4 does convert to Co2 over a hundred year time frame. However; when trillions of tons of methane gas (CH4), bursts out from the thawing Arctic's permafrost into the atmosphere, as ~~Aleph Null~~ rightfully explained, it will cause a mass extintion of life, just how massive is not as yet known... It could be as bad as it was 250 million years ago when all life on Earth almost died, or only as bad as 55 million years ago where the dinasours were suddenly wiped out and some life managed to survive.
We cannot live by breathing air which is heavily polluted with methand gas
The massive dscharge of methane from the Arctic will also set off global warrming where almost immediately average normal summer temperatures will soar by at least 40 to 50 degrees F. Imagine having shade temperatures of 140 to 150 degrees F all summer long. Ever been to Death Valley, which is aptly named?
Ch4 is 72 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than Co2 is for the first 25 to 30 years it is in the atmopsher. In addition when that event happens, the"Ticking Time Bomb" of the Arctic's methane releasing, it will insure very high average temperatures world wide and vast amounts of methane will then release from many other areas of the world. That is termed the "feedback loop"
No "theories", it has occurred previosly and human activity was not a factor. We humans have managed to do with adding far too much Co2 into the atmosphere in 200 years that took nature millions of years to accomplish.
Our (only) "hope" is for the Arctic region of Earth to cloud over all year long and stop the ice and permafrost from melting and recover.... There is no other solution to preventing the next mass extention that I am aware of. Is clouding the Arctic region possible? __ Yes. __Will it be done? __ No. That's how it is, reality is not always how we want it to be.
From the Wikipedia article linked above:
"This reaction [with the hydroxyl radical] in the troposphere gives a methane lifetime of 9.6 years."
A more recent study by scientists last year discovered it is 100 years until CH4 has fully converted to Co2... I'll go find the article, it was published in Journal Science...If it were only a year's time,,, when the Arctic methane bursts out,,, goodby.
Does anyone here have a better idea or plan to save our dumb butts?
A correcton to my last post which I can no longer edit due to a reply is: Cloud the Arctic region during the Arctic (summer) months,,, not all year.
Geochemical processes have long thin tails. Methane is most dangerous in the first 20 years, when it's 72 times more potent a GHG. It's 7.6 times worse than CO2 after 500 years, which is certainly bad enough. (These estimates are called the Global Warming Potential of CH4.)
My point, for what it's worth, was that CH4 degrades much more quickly than CO2 (though it takes hundreds of years for the things CH4 degrades into to degrade, and so on). Our dead planetary neighbors Mars and Venus have atmospheres with upwards of 95% CO2, because CO2 is so eternally stable.
All of the great extinctions have been driven by great warming events, coinciding with peaks in atmospheric CO2 (much of which was originally methane). The big problem is how the Earth gets rid of the CO2. The only permanent natural means takes millions of years, as fresh rock exposed by tectonic processes absorbs CO2, then erodes and forms sediments on the sea floor.
I agree,~~Aleph Null~~, I misunderstood, thought you were saying CH4 only lasts for 8+ years in the atmosphere.... We are on the same page... Thank you very much for your very excellent posts, you explain technical things much better than I do.
Here is an article from 2010 about methane.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/03/05-6
[I located it by googling Kem Patrick, for those of you who have been around for a while. Boy did that guy turn out to be right.]
All of Kem's many posts here at CD were zapped.
Glad you remember Kem ~~Joe~~ He really liked you, Locust, Be For Kids, Sue and the many other really swell old timers... He loved CD, but he didn't support Obama and got too nasty with the professional GW deniers.
Google: John Atcheson Geologist and read his article, "Methane Burps, A Ticking Time Bomb"... John Atcheson has a current article here on CD now but it isn't about the Arctic ice... His long ago warnings about the Arctic methane have been ignored, as have those of the ISSS (International Siberian Shelf Study) teams of 400 scientists, led by Dr. Igor Semiletov and Dr. Shakova of the U. of Alaska, Fairbanks.
I hope Kem is well. Tell him we will try to continue his tradition, but perhaps without so much ornery prickliness, : ) as sometimes people can be honestly mistaken.
He has your message Joe, and he is in perfect health.. We have ~~Aleph Null~~
and you here, two excellent commenters and the pro GW deniers are under control... I'll pitch in too,,, got one here at post #30.
I have to congratulate Stephen Leahy on a fine piece of work here. The subject is so vast and complicated that it takes focus, understanding, and writing skill to explain it effectively, and Leahy has definitely got his stuff together.
It's interesting that the forcing from the white-to-dark transition refered to as the ice albedo feedback has been calculated at 0.3 W/m2. The Earth's energy imbalance is currently 0.6 W/m2. The warming feedback from darker Arctic seas will heat the Earth half again as much as human pollution has heated it so far.
I agree. I and I congratulate you, Aleph Null, for some great posts, although for some reason I find your posts depressing! I know, poor joke, but I hope you'll continue posting on this topic. I wasn't posting at CD for a while and I hadn't seen you post before.
Thanks Aleph for your excellent explanation. I recently took this free course online and it did mention Methane but only from human activities such as cattle production. The Methane bomb issue which you describe looks to me very serious considering the vast areas of permafrost in Canada and Russia. For anyone interested, the course is here http://www.pics.uvic.ca/insights/
Cool link. Now CD gives a person homework.
NASA photos with more clarity and contrasting seasons, years:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/sea_ice.php
Sad, but thanks for sharing the animation.
Hey Robvann, THANK YOU for that link! I just took the course too - fantastic. I learned so much. Sad learning...but all truth and knowledge is good.
I thought it was excellent too.. free is good as well. The multiple choice questions were tough!
Thanks robvann. I took the first lesson, and will do the rest tomorrow. Extremely excellent. And easy to follow. Perfect for adults, or science classes, where kids prefer to look at a screen than a book. My thanks to those who made this film.
Yup! I think when we clarify the problem we are just stroking our minds. These are Anne Herbert Moments.
i have to keep repeating myself (in various different forms). Sorry i can't help it:
Let's spend our life energy these last years trashing each other for what we post about voting choices! What could possibly be more important than that activity? It is very positive that the Common Dreams articles that get the most attention and longest comment threads are about candidates, parties, and voting! Who would want to waste their time discussing OTHER activities people might productively engage in? What else besides endless campaign cycles (highly entertaining and superbly produced by skilled professionals to high technical specifications!) should any of us occupy our minds with?
Well, smartypants, the reason I trash folks for their voting choices is because they keep polluting this sight with Paultard garbage. Ron Paul, you know? Enemy of environmental regulation? being hawked as a progressive's wet dream? that guy?
Thanks, i am certainly a smart-ass, i'm desperately trying to get folks attention in various ways as i do sincerely believe the ecological crisis IS past multiple tipping points and sniping about voting is becoming beyond immaterial but a waste of precious time.
i certainly have no love for the libertarian Paul, or for any other candidate that gets any media attention, and am happy to blast out with ripping denunciations on a moment's notice, but then also i catch myself and try not to get bogged down in imagining that our path to a survivable future leads through electoral politics at this late-stage of humanity.
I was a McKinney supporter and, frankly, she was the only candidate who was addressing these issues honestly. She got almost no support here or elsewhere....
McKinney: As islands disappear and indigenous ways of life are threatened, entire populations are displaced. Food production and water supplies are at risk. The United States can no longer justify denial by blaming weather fluctuations or claiming the science is unclear. We need air, land, water, climate, production and consumption policies that reflect the real limits within which we all must live. The Green Party and I support clean renewable energy technologies, such as wind, solar, ocean power, geothermal, and small-scale hydro (not nuclear). We support gubernatorial candidate Jesse Johnson's efforts to abolish mountain top coal removal in West Virginia. (Read more: Coal Valley News - CVN interviews Green Party candidate Cynthia McKinney).
Is it too late? How would we know when we sit on a train heading over a cliff? Assuming BAU, it is too late. But what if we could stop the train?
Very good comment, Stiv.
When (trillions of tons) of methane burst out from the thawing Arctic's permafrost it will get a lot of attention... Will that happen? __ Bet on it and give a million to one odds.
As long as the Arctic ice and permafrost continue to merrily melt off, the methane WILL release and it isn't just bubbling out in many areas,,, it is bursting out, an estimated billlion tons a month... We may have five years, probably less... Be nice to your children.
And above all, STOP BREEDING. The worst thing you can do to a child is bring one into this world.
I agree with your point re politicians and the politics that work against us (as if voters matter anymore).
What I feel, and what I can imagine others feel, is a deep sadness as having to say goodbye to the world as we know it, with all its life-giving beauty. How do we even begin to do this?
I don't know.
ENLIGHTENED CANDIDATES
It is very reassuring to learn from enlightened republican presidential contenders that climate change, and our contributions to it, are a baseless hoax invented by the international scientific community; and that it poses no concerns.
They have pledged to rescue us from from the pending disasters resulting from the environmental reforms by abolishing them; and entrusting them to their supporters such as the include the energy cartel, who have demonstrated that they always place public interests and environmental concerns before profits.
With similar wisdom they realize that social security is ill founded, and must be entrusted to Wall Street investors who have guided our economy so aptly.
Each one of us is a 'fractal' of humanity, containing the inner knowledge and ability to 'become the change we want to see in the world' as well as to draw in our whole communities as Mohandas Gandhi exemplified during his lifetime. Empires can be brought down not by 'protesting' but by focussing our energy, 'living simply so others can simply live', 'manifesting' our truth. We need to work on every level to create sustainable livelihood for all. The Republicans are right that livelihood comes first, and so we can join them to invest our time, resources, goods, services, money, property and expertise in order to take them beyond the Macdonald's gas driven lifestyle to sustainable nature based abundance right in our cities. The half of the population living in apartment and townhouse complexes can join our strengths together through on line Human Resource Catalogues and human resource accounting. Apartment dwellers are already living in the Mansion-house so why not collaborate our corporate resources to live with the abundance we are. www.indigenecommunity.info
I'm with WayneWR.It's been commin' on for a long time.Our gov't ignored the threat of glowarm. They figure we don't know anything. Sorry about us.But for me it's poetic justice. and all the body guards and gated communities will not save them from the destruction MOTHER NATURE CAN PROVIDE.....Q
love you all.....
I'm with WayneWR.It's been commin' on for a long time.Our gov't ignored the threat of glowarm. They figure we don't know anything. Sorry about us.But for me it's poetic justice. and all the body guards and gated communities will not save them from the destruction MOTHER NATURE CAN PROVIDE.....Q
love you all.....