You don't need to buy anything, you're beautiful the way you are...................................................................................................................................................believe me?

Check out the 2008 Shop with a Conscience Consumer Guide here: http://www.sweatfree.org/shopping

It is produced by the International Labor Rights Forum, Sweatfree Communities and Sweatshop Watch.

Where are all the culture warriors at? The season kicked off slightly after September and not one squawk from them. Anhueser Busch has a billboard that only states: "Happy Holidays!" Someone contact BOR so we can see the throwdown between the King of Kings vs. the King of Beers.

I wish this movie would come to my town. Anyone got a bootleg copy?

I am feeling so disheartened and sad at the state of our country and our planet that I have made the decision to opt out of the insanity of "shopping" this holiday season. Instead I am sending my hanunkah cards with a message that says the above and that instead I am sending donations to various groups who are helping to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, reconstruct communities after various disasters - in their honor. I can't think of a more humane thing to do to help and repair the world.

SHEILA: I have a cousin who married a very wealthy man. Two of her children are born in June and some years back my cousin decided to throw a party, more like a town fair, and my family was invited. There were all kinds of booths and rides, etc. I told my father I was NOT giving her rich kids a gift. That instead I would donate money to a conservation program in THEIR name. My father was so insulted by this, as were others; but doing the spiritually ethical thing has always trumped conformity for me!

Y'all are still missing the key point: We want people to buy less and give more to the Church. Can't be more transparent than that.

I, for one, have no choice but to stop spending money at Christmas for presents. I have become used to the concept of living indoors and eating on a somewhat regular basis. My gifts this year will consist of services that I can do for the recipient (mow lawn, wax car, ect). It's not that I am being socially conscience, I just have no option.

On 13 November the House of Representatives unanimously passed Bill 3585 entitled "Native American Heritage Day Act of 2007". Section 2 (11) of this bill states: "the Friday immediately succeeding Thanksgiving Day of each year would be an appropriate day to designate as Native American Heritage Day".
The bill states the purpose is: "To honor the achievements and contributions of Native Americans to the United States, . . .".

When my daughter and son were 10 and 8 respectively, we decided as a family to spend what Christmas money we had, ( not much) to buy presents for our Mississippi summer visitors--a summer program here in Wisconsin that brings a school bus load of kids for a two week visit. Our guests that year, brother and sister had 5 siblings at home.

We sent a box of gifts, lots of books, some sweet treats and my children's Nintendo (this was 20 years ago) because Travis couldn't get enough of it when he was here.

Twenty years later, my now grown kids say it was the best and most memorable Christmas they ever had. And the gift they got was so precious---the gift of giving.

How radical, even revolutionary is a church spreading the message that is anti-consumerism. Not only that, but encouraging a voluntary re-distribution of the wealth. Am surprised frankly, that they haven't been banned. No doubt Homeland Security has them on a watch list.

et tu SiouxRose!

We here gave up buying Thanksgiving / 'Christ-mess' garbage from the shops many years ago, and I only ever design and make *my own* cards these last 20 years (for birthdays, Christmas, funerals, weddings / -any occasion) and people actually *look forward* to getting ours (even complaining if they don't get one!) coz they are 'different' / 'interesting' / 'funny' etc.

My (idealist) younger son does things like going to work in soup kitchens for the homeless at Christmas time, and we've been known to just have a humble cheese sandwich for Christmas lunch, ~ all by way of protesting against the rabid consumerist nightmare this *UN-HOLY* farce has descended into...

Friends and wider family now accept that what _they_ get up to, at this time of year, is just not for us. Even when my wife and I got married, - in place of asking for any 'stuff' we just had a collection box for Greenpeace at the ceremony!

I've always liked the title of a song by Donovan, from many years ago. It was called *Dare to Be Different*.

~ So we do!

Starofthesea: Nice timing, we posted at the same moment!
I think you missed my previous invite? If you want to make contact, try deepart 2000 (at) hotmail (dot) com ~ be nice to swap a few notes?

After 911 Bush said to go shopping,that is reason enough for me to keep it to minimum, but I wonder when Bushwacker will say that by not shopping you are aiding and abetting the enemy?

I for one believe money is a good thing. Celebrate Christmas how you want. Make things. Give food to the poor. Mow lawns. Charge your credit cards out of sight,if that's what turns you on. Do whatever you please. Nobody is forcing anyone to spend,spend,spend. Sheesh!

starofthesea; I listened to Reverand Billy and Morgan Spurlock on the radio this morning on DEMOCRACY NOW!, and watched the same show on FREESPEECHTV tonight. It was hilarious! Billy's been on Amy Goodman's show before and FSTV had him and his choir on several times over the years.

On todays broadcast, they were down in Disneyland and he was thrown out, and also thrown out at a big mall. It is in Spurlock's movie, the gentleman who made the documentary,'Supersize This'. Go to Democracy Now.org, and watch todays (nov.21st) program.

siouxrose; I finally got to see Caroline Casey (the astrologer) at the Green Festival in San Francisco a week and a half ago. She's great!

tnewman; Great website! Thanks.

WTF "Y'all are still missing the key point: We want people to buy less and give more to the Church. Can't be more transparent than that."

I was wondering if anybody else picked that up. Give to the church, give to the church; the church is like the United Way or the other way around, just a middleman.

I realize it takes money to do some things but if you want to help don't just give money but volunteer. Go down to the food kitchen and serve food to the poor, habitat for humanity always needs volunteers. You just don't realize how many older poor people in your area needs their house painted, a wheel chair ramp built or some brush removed. Quit going to the major churches there nothing but moneygrubbers that send most of your donations somewhere else or spend it on their own rich followers.

Most of the small churches I know are more apt to ask for volunteer's first and small donations to support the volunteers second. Actually these churches always have one or two rich people who will say, well if your going to paint that little ladies house I'll buy the paint. Happens every time.

PEACEMAN: There is a profound almost lost knowledge held by those who study the higher plan, "As above, so below" in earnest. I wish we could screen officials before they were given the controls of government. It is quite evident who's grown ethics (from lifetimes of previous works) and who has not. Astrologers have been demonized because those of us with THIS particular education raise issues that completely counter the self-proclaimed authority of religious elites, who throughout the centuries, have unified with the apparatus of state governance. Why was the astrologer burned as heretic, the crime attached to his/her knowledge silenced on threat of death? This is a subject that's rarely come into public discussion, and yet MILLIONS were killed. In those times of suspicion as grounds for public spectacles of sanctioned murder, many women with an understanding of natural law were sacrificed. ANY authoritarian entity (and academia often evidences this trait) is anathema to free thought, democratic society, or human evolution!

SIOUXROSE; Correct! As you know, astrology and astronomy were studied together as one science by mystics for thousands of years. To control the masses, the religious elites (spiritually and morally undeveloped black magicians) seperated the two, and tried destroying the ancient teachings of the developed souls. In the third century AD, Pope Gregory had the Library in Alexandria, Egypt, ransacked, and much of the occult knowledge destroyed or hauled off to the Vatican. What they then compiled is what is called 'the Holy Bible' of today. Predating that event was the burning down of the school in Crotona, in Italy, which was founded by Pythagoras. They were after him for teaching Universal Law.

Look what they did to Giordano Bruno. And Gallileo recanting. And Socrates. The list goes on. This is why I say in so many of my posts...ignorance is not bliss, it is unforgivable!

Zodiacal cycles are 1910 years. The last 50 years of an ending cycle and the first 50 years of a beginning cycle create much change, upheavel, and chaos. SIOUXROSE...I've got to go out asap. I'll finish my comment later, if you want. Let me know.

Right on Shiela and Siouxrose!!! I like Hefer International. It's a worldwide group, helping families and communities improve their lot by learning about raising animals for food and sales of goods produced from them. They are then encouraged to pass it on to relatives and neighbors. Check it out.

http://www.heifer.org/site/c.edJRKQNiFiG/b.204586/k.9430/Gift_Catalog.htm?msource=kw1844

Siouxrose, I always enjoy your comments,...and...I have been studying astrology off and on for years. In fact, I have collected many charts of those running for president (also current and past).

There is a site, Lois Rodden's ASTRODATABANK....Are you familiar with it? They do some pretty interesting studies....like alcoholic and drug abuse tendency, serial murderer traits, psychic indications....Are you interested in sharing some of this info.?

MaS

This make me wanna say, but don't make me say, "Good God!" "Hep me!"

PEACEMAN,UN-COMMON DREAMS--- Thanks for the heads up about Democracy Now and the film clips there. WIll check it out.

And thanks UNCOMMON for the more direct means of communication. I have put it in my address book. It is good to have another medium for contact with other kindred souls. Will send you mine via email.

You guys are wimps. JC Penney is opening at 4AM on Black Friday. If you are not there you will miss the sales!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly MrFoad offering plain old friendly assistance to people rather than presents works for me!

It's amazing how useless the collective absurdity of American social life can be sometimes. I live alone and sometimes need help lifting stuff or with my car if it breaks down. I have one friend who helps me this way and that friend is very important to me. They aren't rich or glamorous. I value them a zillion times more than anyone I know who throws big expensive parties.

MAS 1946: I met Lois at a convention of The American Federation of Astrologers. She was having hot flashes and asked me to take over her lecture! Even star gazers get the hormone blues!

PEACEMAN: Thanks for the posting. I believe I was THERE when the Library of Alexandria burned down. Luckily teachings we truly come to embody remain part of our "cosmic DNA." We wonder why genius manifests in some. I believe it's old learning recapitulating. What makes one person gravitate towards science, another towards music? Our greatest loves (inclusive of those inexplicable reactions to people that we only "first" meet...) are imprinted into our souls. This is also true of our greatest fears. The person who breaks out from eating potatoes, might have been part of Ireland's potato famine.

Dr. Ian Stevenson's book: Thirteen (? Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation is amazing. When a soul incarnates too quickly, let's say from a gunshot wound demise in the prior sojourn, the individual may have a birthmark in that same spot. Disease is a powerful way to learn compassion, and those of us who played a role in compromising another's lifeline or health in a former incarnations (given this planet's history in bloodshed, that's not uncommon. I believe I was a warrior male in a prior lifetime. I have too much power for a typical female, have a strong fighting spirit, and unbelievable stamina/athletic expression) tend to wrestle with health challenges this time round.

The understanding of karma is auspicious because only when we together build a better world can we guarantee more favorable conditions for ourselves and others. A society that invests in all the things that tear down and foster despair cannot be a happy place for any to reside. That's the consciousness our delightful prodigees of The Shock Doctrine have not yet quite "gotten."

SIOUXROSE; As always, your thoughts and words are sublime and a beacon of light on an ocean of darkness.

The greatest 'warriors' are not the ones with weapons to kill and maim, but are armed with the knowledge of the truth of being and an understanding of the law of cause and effect.

Madam Blavatsky was the type of woman you describe about yourself, as well as my hero, Emma Goldman. They had that 'male warrior energy' in their never-ending battle against the people ruled by Mars.

Peace and Harmony to you and yours.

Hi again,

Siouxrose and Peaceman...OK, all this Mars talk, and people being ruled by their Mars. So, where are your Mars'? Mine is in Cancer...oops...oh well, I'm very good at growing plants, and gardening nurtures me in return.

So, let's talk Mars in the natal charts of the presidential candidates.

Dems: Hillary Clinton...yikes Mars in Scorpio conjunct Saturn and Pluto and making some not nice aspects...in the 2nd house, financial resources used for? Does this support the creepy feeling I get thinking about her as president? Yes indeed.
Barack Obama: Mars in Virgo, 11th. Part of a grand trine that is split by 2 oppositions; Scorpio ascendant messing with 7th house partnerships and Mercury in Leo in 9th messing with Jupiter and Saturn conjunction in 3rd. Perhaps if he recognizes and has dealt with these oppositions, they can be a foil for understanding polarities and use the perspective it gives to unite our country. Pluto in Virgo, 10th opposing Chiron...with beneficial aspects...I see mother and father energies, though a polarity, being tapped to work industriously to heal.
John Edwards: Mars in Gemini in 12th...Hmmm, also Sun. Merc. there and weak. Seems obscure and too nice, not tough enough to take on the problems we face. I see him more as a behind the scenes facilitator, one with genuine caring, applying the mental strengths he has to the work at hand.
Bill Richardson: Mars in Leo, 7th, conjunct Saturn and opposing massive conjunctions in 10th, including Sun and MC. I see prideful struggles getting in the way, but see also the desire to be a diplomat...maybe a good Sec. of State?
Joe Biden: Mars in Scorpio 12th house, in fact a packed 12th house, Sun, Merc. and Venus all opposing Saturn conjunct Uranus but Mars trines Pluto 8th. Perhaps able to work opportunities to benefit a stronger leader...VP?
Dennis Kucinich: Mars in Scorpio 7th, packed 7th including Sun, Chiron, Merc. and Jupiter. Mars squares Saturn conjunct Pluto 4th, and only good aspect is Mars sextile MC. I see not a complex person, but one with a keen mind, guileless and sincere, willing to stick his neck way out to provide sound assessments for healing. This however messes with the status quo.

I don't have times for Gravel, Huckabee Giuliani, Paul, Thompson or Dodd. Do you have their birth times? Some of these guys don't have much of a chance, though.
Dodd has a simple chart, but with Mars conjunct Moon and Pluto which I'm willing to bet is opposite or square Asc. or MC.
Huckabee also has a simple chart, Mars in tight conjunction with Venus and Pluto, don't feel so good about Neptune squaring Uranus.

Repubs: John McCain: Mars in Leo 10th, squared by Uranus in Taurus 7th, impatient, impulsive, reckless, resents interference...not so good, but tempered by trine with Jupiter giving high principles and action with integrity. I respect this man, especially for his knowledge thru experience, and he has certainly paid his dues, however I just don't get a feeling of the kind of ability to be commander in chief. I think past his prime in this context, perhaps DOD position.
Mitt Romney: Mars in Pisces 10th conj. Merc. Complex chart where one would hope he has worked out his internal conflicts; ruthlessness and underhandedness undermining the benefits of his grand trine that speaks well of him. Other trines give strength to this man's motivations and connections that aid his endeavors.
Rudi Giuliani: Mars in Leo conjunct Pluto...not so good,and Sun in tight conjunction with Uranus makes him quite the unconventional, eccentric Maverick. It would be very important to know the houses these planets fall in as the powerful, forceful intimidation factor needs clarification.

Got to throw in Al Gore here...Mars in Leo 1st, conjunct Saturn and Pluto...I never would have guessed...this group squares North Node, but has good trines to his Sun in 9th., sextiles Neptune in 3rd. Sun opposes Neptune, Venus opposes Chiron. Very interesting since Gore has done much to promote healing knowledge and influences for the environment.

Now, using Astrodatabank's info. on serial killers/psychopaths, I took the highest percentage and most promenant aspects into regard. Well, most of the candidates have some of these chart traits, some multiple traits in this category, including some of the more seemingly benign men. Mitt Romney squeaks by with just one, and Hillary Clinton has none!

I also looked to psychic ability as being a probable good talent to have for this job. Alas, Hillary has no psychic talent in her chart, but maybe a slight dose of female intuition, one would hope.
Mitt Romney has multiple traits that also include aspects to Pallas, governing political balance, diplomacy, wisdom, and being in position as political favorite son. Joe Biden had one trait as did Edwards, Paul and Gore.

So, it looks to me to be a race between Romney and Clinton...Of course the disclaimer here is that astrological considerations are just "bunk." And, why would any forward thinking person use such information to make such an important evaluation?

Uhhh, I got the following message at end of my post....Don't know if it will be given here.

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You aren't allowed to edit this comment, either because you didn't write it or you passed the 30 minute time limit.

Just in case, I will save my post. I really want to have this discussion with Siouxrose and Peaceman. Not shopping today...instead will work on gardening project.

Hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving with family and friends!

mas1946; You lost me already but it isn't hard to do. Don't feel bad about the comment not being posted. I commented on another article earlier this morning and it wasn't posted.???

I can't speak for my friend, Siourose, but we both (as the overwhelming majority of Common Dreamers do) worry about the destructive path this government has taken, over the years, especially the current administration.

As for astrology or any particular religious preference you may or may not practice, that is your choice. We do not impose our 'belief system' on others, nor do we want their belief systems imposed on us. So my friend, are you responding to our comments for ridicule or what? This happened some months ago and I won't waste my time going back and forth over who's right and who's wrong. I believe it to be a waste of energy.

We had a wonderful Thanksgiving and I hope you and your family and friends did too. Thank you for not shopping today.

One more thing, mas1946, I am not an astrologer, but I do believe in planetary influences. The more important thing is to put the right person in the White House in next years election. Of all candidates in the race, I firmly believe Dennis Kucinich is the best person to do the job for the American people and the world in general.

Nothing like being close to Mother Nature. Good luck with the gardening project.

Peaceman,
Ridicule? No way...my last comment was for the purely scientific folks and/or atheists,...bless them anyway, who might read my post and scoff themselves. I refer you to your comment, "They had that 'male warrior energy' in their never-ending battle against the people ruled by Mars." Taken with your comments and the comments of Siouxrose from posts Nov 22 and 23, I was curious and interested about what you thought, especially in regards to the extensive astro. chart work I've done to gleen extra info. about the candidates.

I hope to have a really rich discussion with the both of you on the Mars placements of the presidential candidates.

PAX

Mas 1946; Please except my apology. I misread your statement. I'll respond in the morning with my explanation. (I'm tired from the long drive yesterday) Return to this article in the morning and read the little I can offer. The charts are impressive and if Siouxrose can respond, it would be better. You two are the astrologers, I'm a believer. But I think the 'Mars ' issue is paramount in the discussion,

PAX

I got a good laugh from MAS's 12.10 post. Good humor and very well written.

When it comes to Siouxrose, you don't have to believe her beliefs in astrology or re-incarnation, but you can sure believe her when it comes to love of one another, our fellow humans, compassion, common sense and decency. She's a wonderful person and has taught me a lot of good things, sometime with just one simple sentence.

I woudn't knock her opinions on astrology either, because she is far better informed on the subject than most. Remember when the general public, demonized the man who learned the world was actually a sphere, not a pancake shape. When we are ignorant on any subject, we should be careful of what we say about those who are more informed than we are. Do we live other lives here? Some have very good reason to believe we do, not everyone has had what is often termed, a mystical experience. It's sort of like seeing a UFO, if you've never seen one, it is difficult to believe they exist.
But there is very solid evidence that ndeed they do.

And as for Mars? Perhaps that's where humanity came from to here before humanity destroyed that planet's atmosphere and oceans with atomic waste. But, that's another subject.

This subject is, What would Jesus buy? Ask him, he'll listen to you, if you listen very carefully, you'll recieve an answer, __from your conscience and soul, if you still have them. Some have sold theirs, often it is not difficult to determne who has.

mas1946; From what I've learned many years ago, that countries and individuals which come under the influence of Mars tend to be strong, militant, and full of fight. England, with all it's charm and achievments over the centuries is ruled by Mars and they.have a long record of war-like behavior (as a nation). It is also the nation the humanitarian and peace activist, Bertrand Russell came from. There have been many like him in that countries' extraordinary history. The British are some of the nicest, kindest, people on this planet and that seems to contradict the 'Mars' aspect of force and power.

Getting back to the candidates, astrology aside, the most important item on the agenda is getting Dennis Kucinich elected. Out of all the presidential contenders, his voting record in Congress outshines the rest of the pack, and DK is consistent in his positions. But MSM, from the beginning, has kept the spotlight on the corporatist favorites, Clinton and Obama.

When you read articles on Common Dreams and other progressive websites, and read comments by the readers, you'd think we have an 'army' of peaceful, egalitarian, 'live and let live' people in these United States, but we are a tiny minority in America. The vast majority still let a small minority do the thinking for them. On the positive side, more and more folks are beginning to see what this morally bankrupt government is doing to our country and way of life and are taking action. The movement is still small, but it is growing by the minute. This is one of the reasons why the Bush/Cheney Republican Crime Family and the Democratic collaborators have passed so many anti-American, un-Constitutional (illegal) draconian laws to prosecute American citizens. Years ago, any liberal progressive person was labeled a 'communist'. Now we are labeled 'terrorists'. Everybody's a terrorist suspect. Boy, have we evolved as a nation!

Mas1946; I haven't answered your question pertaining to the astro charts (which are admirable) because, as I said, I'm not an astrologer even though I believe in planetary influences.Thirty something years ago, an astrologer worked out my chart and many things in my life and affairs were in sync with the charts. As she explained things on the chart, which took quite some time to work out and prepare, it sounded 'Greek' to me, and I asked her to write some things down in plain English. Over the years, it made me a believer.

Now, the question is; are we as a nation continuing on the path of 'Mars' dominance for world conquest or can we reverse the current trend which is heading towards WW3, and finally become a real nation of PEACE and PROSPERITY FOR ALL?

"This subject is, What would Jesus buy? Well said, KEM PATRICK. Well said.

Hi KEM PATRICK,

I appreciate greatly the contributions to CommonDreams chats of Siouxrose and of you too. I am by nature an investigator...like to root out what is perhaps not common and see if it applies. That's why I consider astrology and other subjects like Siouxrose discusses, like reincarnation/past lives.

Gee, I think I still have my soul...uh, let me see,...oh yeah, it's still there. Whew! You had me worried for a minute...ha, ha. Conscience there too. However, you may judge me otherwise....alas, I am not a vegetarian. I do feel the same politically as most here do...horrified at what has become of our country and the destructive path it has taken.

What Would Jesus Buy? Not from Walmart...Not from China more these days than even before....Not products made in sweat shops where social justice is unheard of...Don't support chemical and drug industry...

I try to get down to the far end of town to buy my gas from Citgo, oil from Venezuela. Wish I had the bucks to buy a hybrid or bio fuel car...but I am not a conspicuous over consumer...I drive a 17 yr.old Honda, am employed in service to the public (dentistry)...my employers are rabid Republicans. They think having college educations makes them smarter than me on the subject of politics, so I am deluded in their eyes. Best not to discuss politics with them!!!

Well, I look forward to reading your posts in the future. Today I'll be taking a hike on the beach with a friend and then sharing a light lunch while discussing "The Celestine Prophecy."

Hope your weekend is good for you...later, Marianne

Hi Peaceman,
Thanks for your reply. Agree with you wholeheartedly! But, please do remember that I was responding to comments made about Mars in your post...got me going in that direction. Pluto and Saturn are important to look at too. And, by the way, what sign is your Mars in? Mine is in Cancer, sign of the fall, but I make it work well for me since it compliments my Venus in Taurus...get my fire from other places.

See my reply to KEM about "What Would Jesus Buy?"

later, Marianne

mas1946; I must be slipping! The MOST IMPORTANT subject above all else, be it philosophy, astrology, sociology, and all the other 'ologies' combined is...the SELF. We as individuals control are thoughts and concentrate on what we desire individually or collectively (as a group) waiting for the materialization of that thought to manifest into a reality. Each person makes a difference in their thinking, whether for good or evil. (How about positive and negative, or constructive/destructive) in their life and affairs. When you, and me, and Laddie and Doddie, and everybody projects thoughts of a higher nature, we overcome the forces of 'Mars', so to speak. The great spiritual teachers of the ages taught this principal.
The Persian Master Zarathustra said, "GOOD THOUGHTS, GOOD WORDS, GOOD DEEDS" in that order.

PAX

We all originally lived on the planet Mars in a former life. Earth was seeded but not yet prepared for settling, and it still isn't, it's an unstable, wobblng planet, whose upper plates still move and shift. When a massive atomc war broke out in the universe and on Mars, the few who escaped from that conflict, (which had destroyed the atmosphere of Mars), migrated to Earth and the rest is history.

We all have some of that Mars like warrior in us, can't escape it, it's heriditary and stays with us in every life we live here. It's a long and facinating story, which began many millions of years ago in the Milky Way galaxy. Unfortunantly, the written history was lost at the fabulous city of Atlantis and our history has since been passed down over the ages by story tellers and those deemed to be wizards, soothsayers, musicians, and astrologers etc. Much of the true history has been mangled by published books and has been lost, except at times we may obtain a glimpse of it in our dreams. Some of the 'fables' passed down from father to son, are more factual than fiction.

I'm quite certain you have your soul Marianne, it stands out like a beautiful rose in a field of weeds.

Am I the only one who has trouble with the edit feature?

KEM: You are such a sweetheart! Thank you so much for your loving nods of cyber-approval! Your posting at 2;19 sounded like you read Gordon Michael Scallion's "Notes From the Cosmos." He explains life on Mars. Edgar Cayce explained this, too.

MAS1946: I applaud your putting energy towards researching the "Mars factor" of candidates. Since this is not an astrology forum, I am not comfortable going into the complexities of their charts. However, if anyone has kept up with this thread, what might bear mentioning is the following criteria: Mars directly relates to and commands the nature of the individual's ego and self-interest. When Mars is thwarted (in a hard aspect) the person will either use more aggressive means, or passive aggresive covert means. Anyone interested in politics probably has a well developed ego, i.e. Mars.
Mars in the signs works like an energetic focal point. In Aries, the positive individual will come up with new technologies. Mars has a lot to do with motors, as well as weapons. The negative (poorly aspected) Mars Aries can see none but the self, and will run roughshod over others' feelings.
Mars Taurus would be interested in financial security, probably own a robust set of appetites for food, pleasure and sexuality. They are rather earth bound, as material needs will trump their perception of other factors.
Mars Gemini are fighters with words. The best code breakers, the ones who are good at polemic, excellent lawyers, masters of logic, chess players, and so forth. (Hard to win an argument as Gemini's twins give them facility in arguing EITHER position.)
Mars Cancer: Sensitive stomach, a great need to protect one's emotions. At the present time Mars IS transiting Cancer and stays TOO long. It entered in September and hangs there till May with the exception of its retro dance back into Gemini for January and Feb. Since the US is a July 4 Cancer nation, it needs an overdose of Mars like a cosmic hole in the head.
Mars Leo: The lovers, those that protect children, put passion into their creative forms of expression, often are champions of the arts. Big egos here. Great sense of romance.
Mars Virgo: Should get jobs with ANY quality control apparatus as they will notice the morsel of dirt, the shelf that is uneven, the file that's out of sequence, etc. They are the zodiac's natural critics. A bit tough to be around.
Mars Libra: The diplomats, the centrists, the ones who truly do see where both sides can meet in the middle. Mr. Clinton had this signature and boy does it define him! Mars Libra needs a mate, has a huge sense of WE overwhelming the usual ME sense.
Mars Scorpio: Probably invented the Mafia. Here the urge/impulse of fiery Mars operates through the retaliatory sting of the legendary Scorpion. NO one wrongs them! Mentality like the character that hated "Fortunato" in Poe's "Cask of Amontiago." They are masters of revenge.
Mars Sag: Born athlete, half-horse, do NOT fence them in. Some really grow the other "muscle" the brain and become adept philosophers, very given to amassing an understanding of humanity by reading up on other cultures. They are natural cross pollinators of mass thought.
Mars Capricorn: The authoritarians. Those who really believe in "father/fuhrer" knows best. They are highly disciplined, can put aside immediate gratification in pursuit of their long-range goals. I'd expect plenty of career military guys and/or navy seals to own this signature (though anything in Capricorn creates huge potential for self-discipline.)
Mars Aquarius: Space cadets or space cases, naturally imaginative and visionary, they truly SEE the future and live partly there. They are quirky, have odd friends, like to socialize with really original people. Such types can found societies or inventions.
Mars Pisces: Not my favorite cosmic cup of tea. I would not be surprised if most of Bush's pres secretaries have this position. Pisces is inherently dualistic, and can wear ONE mask while portraying an entirely opposed agenda. They are chameleons who can do what the moment calls for, without owning any sense of compromised loyalty.
This thumbnail assessment of ONE of our key chart components, a powerful archetype that does impact every one of us, is skeletal because astrology is like music. Each planet's position can be compared to a note, and only when taken together, can the skilled ear/mind recognize the full symphony that makes us who we are.

MAS1946; Aquarius.

Ye gods!

You single Sue? Just kiddin, __ I'm not.

I never read any books about the subject of Mars and how we arrived here and who we are, where we originated. I wrote one, but it's sitting here on a shelf gathering dust. I'm a Leo BTW. Sounds like me and I love women too. ____ From a respectable distance of course.

What a funny thread to have a cyber flirtation. It makes me smile. I do believe we are evolving into a community, my friends. Terrific! The astrological info was very interesting and my ears always perk up when the subject is raised, especially by such knowledgeable people.

Are you single? Of course it doesn't always matter.

Good morning, Kem... life sent me new young lover the day after my birthday. We are currently in a spate, so I am doing MY thing in the Keys where I met several of the great loves of my life. Let's see what fate has in store. The young man is learning it's not wise to play with fire.

Oh oh, is he a SAG or a Gem? Your near the Bermuda Triangle too. Keep us up-dated.

As far as fire, did you see my post about same and MIND? here

Namaste

Oops _____ YOU'RE not your.

KEM: I get the tough cases. He's a Capricorn! The Gemini moon helps! Parents are devout born-again Christians who fear that their son is hanging out with a heathen/witch. Should be lots of fun. I have good fire insurance. (As a Leo like you, I seem to thrive on drama, or the 'gods' send it my way!)

ICH BIN CAP

Good thing you have the Gemini moon there NSPIRE. Neat moniker BTW. Do Leo's have a moon, or do we moon? ----I fear we have drifted off course here. I tend to be guilty of starting that at times. Hard right,___ full rudder. Head for the Keys.