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TechnoratiLt. Choi Won’t Lie for His Country
Lt. Dan Choi doesn’t want to lie. Choi, an Iraq war veteran and a graduate of West Point, declared last March 19 on “The Rachel Maddow Show,” “I am gay.” Under the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” regulations, those three words are enough to get Choi kicked out of the military. Choi has become a vocal advocate for repealing the policy, having spoken before tens of thousands of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people and their allies at last Sunday’s National Equality March in Washington, D.C.
Shortly after Choi’s public admission to being gay, the Department of the Army sent him a letter stating, in part, that “you admitted publicly that you are a homosexual which constitutes homosexual conduct. ... Your actions negatively affected the good order and discipline of the New York Army National Guard.” Since “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993, 13,500 soldiers, sailors and Marines have been discharged from the military for similar alleged behavior. Choi could receive an “other than honorable” discharge, losing the health, retirement, educational and other benefits to which combat veterans are entitled. While Congress acts to remove the restrictions on health insurance for people with “pre-existing conditions,” Choi’s pre-existing conditions, being gay and being honest about it, may be enough to keep him out of the Veterans Affairs health care system for life.
The night before Sunday’s march, President Barack Obama spoke to the Human Rights Campaign, the largest and wealthiest gay-advocacy group: “We should not be punishing patriotic Americans who have stepped forward to serve this country. ... I will end ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.’ ” He laid out no timetable, however.
After receiving the letter from the Army, Choi wrote an open letter to his commander in chief, Obama. He said: “I have personally served for a decade under Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell: an immoral law and policy that forces American soldiers to deceive and lie about their sexual orientation. Worse, it forces others to tolerate deception and lying.” U.S. troops in Afghanistan are serving side by side with NATO forces that include openly gay and lesbian troops.
Longtime gay-rights activist Urvashi Vaid, author of “Virtual Equality: The Mainstreaming of Gay and Lesbian Liberation,” is opposed to war and militarism, but told me, “The military is a large employer, and has to commit to not being discriminatory.” She, too, was at the march Sunday, whose turnout surprised many of the mainstream gay organizations, as they hadn’t actively organized it. She said: “First, it’s a generational shift in the LGBT movement. There is a new wave of activism coming up. And it’s gay and straight. That’s a second big change ... the third shift that’s happening in the LGBT movement is that it’s much more of a multi-issue agenda that is being carried by the people who are marching.” In addition to “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” the LGBT movement is also intent on repealing the Clinton-era Defense of Marriage Act, and on achieving marriage equality. This will be a hard fight, Vaid predicts, based on grass-roots activism in every congressional district. Challenging discriminatory laws couldn’t be more timely: On the day before Obama’s speech to the Human Rights Campaign, a gay man in New York City was taunted with anti-gay slurs and savagely beaten by two men. He is currently in a coma.
Lt. Dan Choi is still technically a serving officer. Obama could halt proceedings against Choi. Activists contend Obama could stop active enforcement of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” through an executive order. Presidential or congressional action may not come in time to save Choi’s military career. If he loses his health benefits, he has a plan. Choi got a message from an Iraqi doctor whose hospital Choi helped to rebuild while he was there. He said the doctor is “in South Baghdad right now. And he’s seen some of the Internet, YouTube and CNN interviews and other appearances, and he said: ‘Brother, I know that you’re gay, but you’re still my brother, and you’re my friend. And if your country, that sent you to my country, if America, that sent you to Iraq, will discharge you such that you can’t get medical benefits, you can come to my hospital any day. You can come in, and I will give you treatment.’ ”
Choi ended, “I hope that our country can learn from that Iraqi doctor.”
Denis Moynihan contributed research to this column.
90 Comments so far
Show AllVery commendable of Lt. Choi not to lie for his country. He will kill innocent women and children for his country. He will invade and bomb foreign lands into smithereens for his country. He'll probably torture innocent men (which may or may not include sodomy) for his country but he will not lie for his country. Is that where he draws the line? Americans and their warped sense of morality...ha ha!
obama will do this as soon as he comes up for air from under corporate america's desk. you can tell its him by his
shoes sticking out the front of the desk. disgraceful that
he won't help. truth is he's scared shit of confrontation!
This is so unfair, l am sure a fag can kill an Afghan or lraqi as well as anybody else besides if he gets his queer ass blown off in a roadside bomb it would save some redneck a lot of trouble.
Just a question...why should we care? If you join the military you're supporting the worlds largest tool of oppression, so why would any intelligent, caring citizen give a damn if you had rights?
Straight, Gay, lesbian, bisexual...transgender...if you're in the military you're supporting the OPPRESSION of others, then you go and bitch when you're being OPPRESSED. Hypocrites.
The machine can't work without fuel...so stop feeding it.
it is like saying "JUSTICE FOR ME and MINE...but NOT for others".
justice for Homosexuals "SERVING IN THE ARMY" but NOT for the PEOPLE in afghanistan or iraq or wherever the HOMOSEXUAL SOLDIERS of the USA drop bombs on them for the sake of "capitalism"
which "should be fixed by removing *don't ask, don't tell*"
SO THAT the USA army can be "like other armies and tolerate homosexuals in a condition of JUSTICE"
AS the USA goes abroad waging its WARS on people:
STRAIGHT, GAY, OLD, YOUNG, CHILDREN or GROWNUP
because the USA ARMY represents the USA EMPIRE.
tat's what CHOI ignores.
Agreed.
The issue of homosexuals being unfairly discriminated in their selection for membership in a maraudiing gang of thugs, who violently defend the US capitalist's interests around the world, is not exactly something I can get the least bit indignant about.
And my own queer (his preferred self-desciption) brother and his married (in Canada) partner would fully agree with me.
true.
while civil rights are in themselves part of the larger principle of justice , which covers everything we can think of as societies...trying to have civil rights of a certain kind at the exclusion of others is a contradiction.
it's like wanting to have the "freedom" of equal civil rights in society - while that "freedom" to be treated , as a homosexual, or a black, or a colored, or a white, or a woman - as the equal of others -- is USED to impose injustice elsewhere - which is what WAR is.
it's like - choi might as well have worded his letter to obama:
"Dear mister president -- i have served our EMPIRE -- now GIVE me MY benefits as an EQUAL member of OUR american society without discriminating against me because I am a homosexual....and i PROMISE you - i will be an EVEN BETTER WARRIOR and Servant of our GREAT Empire...and will be HONORED to be redeployed (it would help if my gayness doesn't impede my Purple Heart decoration and PROMOTION to Captain of my own platoons who are mostly Homos anyway because we REALLY have BONDED as PATRIOTIC AMERICAN warriors) ....
over there - wherever you send me to spread FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY and EQUAL RIGHTS ...even if we have to BOMB them to submission!!....now -- give me MY BENEFITS and PROMOTION..what's the USE of being a PATRIOTIC , sincere, faithful, honorable AMERICAN if I can't SERVE our Great Army without looking behind my shoulders and HEAR WHISPERS that I'm a CLOSET faggot?!! LET ME BE PROUD to SERVE our Great Empire as an HONEST TO GOODNESS GAY AMERICAN SOLDIER....
P.S. my boyfriend's in our unit too...his name is CHUCK ...but he won't announce himself yet and that's just his INCOGNITO name for now....see what I mean? HOW can we possibly CONCENTRATE FULLY on KILLING and SHOOTING at our Targets./....those Central Asian INSURGENTS and REBELS...while we have to CONCERN OURSELVES with HIDING our SEXUALITY?.....this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO inefficient, Dear Commander in Chief....why MAKE US HIDE our GAYNESS when ALL we want is to SERVE our COUNTRY?".
u know -- this is a very salient point.
using one's personal travails - such as being ostracised because of homosexuality while also subsuming that under a larger evil of war is simply unprincipled in itself.
it is like choosing and picking one's "cause of justice" -- wanting one's rights as a homosexual , or whatever, and then ignoring or even upholding another injustice, which is WAR and which "contains all other evils"
INCLUDING the one that is about "don't ask, don't tell".
it is like Homosexuals in the USA in the closet standing by as they see their REPUBLICAN party during the bush years or before thrash homosexuals -- but they wouldn't stand up for the rights of underclasses LEST THEIR CLOSET be exposed - and their privileges as GOP "homos" and 'capitalists' be upturned...
so - they tolerate OTHER injustices, including those against fellow homosexuals because of their fear to LOSE their privileges ECONOMICALLY under unjust "rules".
I am still trying to work out the military requirement that requires a heterosexual orientation. Will the military require erections when they see naked local women? Are they afraid that when they see that cute enemy with the sexy brown eyes they will get all horny and forget about the gunfire coming from the ak 47.
Seeing as we allow both men and women in the military, there should be someone available to sexually assault any prisoners in our torture prisons. Wouldn't it be even more of a torture effect if we could offer both gay and straight sexual abuse to male and female prisoners?
Considering the number of homosexuals any draft would have to dump the prohibition or face a rather humorous method to get out of service. When the conscription soldiers come to get you just start making out with the first same sex person you find.
END WAR, FRENCH KISS YOUR SARGENT!
"... Lt Choi's desire to be honest and open about his sexual orientation is worthy of respect.." hOWEVER HIS dishonesty from the very beginning in accepting the Service Academy appointment was DISHONEST and not worthy of respect.
He stole the appointment from another person who might have been glad to get the 4 year education and serve their respective Service committment.
"...Homosexuals argue for equal treatment in matters of economic and contract law but what they really want is for their lifestyle to have parity with heterosexuals..."
Life is not fair! If I am four foot tall, it is not likely I can get job as an NBA Center or if I weigh 450 pounds it is not likely I can get a job as a belly dancer or I wish to be an Astro whiz but have the IQ of a box of rocks. In all instances, my dreams are not under my control; the same as no one makes life choice of being gay. Conditions set by birth are not controlable.
Lt Choi's desire to get a free quality education was his fre choice. Other gay people have faced the same choice and made the decision to be true to themselves and NOT enter into a lie from the beginning.
This is my first post on any subject but I felt strongly enough about the subject to take the time to register and post. I could not afford nor was I offered a free college education by but piad for my education myself and can cater a meal or fix a car as equally as others in my respective trades.
Damn me if you will but Lt Choi had a choice from the beginning. His circumstances remeind me of the person who made the decision to kill the family dog and then ask to be forgiven because they made a bad decision.
Bring America Back !!!!
****There is at least one Dictatorship operating within our Democracy in the USA:==it is known as the US Military.
The Dictatorship is governed by it's own legal code--the Uniform Code of Military Justice. All orders go down the chain of command----nothing much goes back up the chain of command. Or, whatever the higher ranks want to hear. Sort of like advice regarding Afghan, Iraq, and Iran !!!! They proved this last week.
***When Amy Goodman says Choi does not want to lie for his country , she is Wrong Headed==He does not want to have to lie for our Military==outside of the nation this dictatorship exists within !!!
****The media coverage of Choi--his speaking out, outside the Box of the military is obvious proof that a country does exist outside it.
But, when you are in it, the military may stifle you and your speech as it sees fit, regardless of the rest of the nation which considers Him--Choi--a modern day Hero.
"we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender"
WC 4 June 1940
Although it never came to that point, the sentiment is true for post WWII conflicts where no attacking power has been able to conquer the resistance fighters ... err insurgents.
If Lt. Choi was anything Lt. Ehren Watanda, I'd have more sympathy/respect for him. But as it is, it seems absurd that the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" issue is even an issue considering the known state of affairs within the military. The "sexual orientation issue" also happens to be redundant when people are shooting at you. Bullets do not care whether you are gay or straight.
The military needs to stop cultivating this whole thing as an "issue" and try doing something productive for once, like giving the kids they call "soldiers" adequate armor and defenses... or pulling them out of the countries they are stomping through.
...this post is, of course, operating on the idea that the military has ever done anything productive in it's existence besides kill billions of innocent people, create psychopaths, and waste lots and lots of money.
- Insurgent
Ah, dilemmas.
Obviously it's as unjust to keep homosexuals from military service, and were there some day an authentic American security issue, keeping homosexuals away from service would be tragic.
For the present, I'm all for equality.
But I'd sooner work to keep heterosexuals OUT.
I'd blogged about this after Dem Now interviewed him:
"Pacifists for Gay Soldiers: Questioning Dan Choi"
http://husseini.org/2009/10/pacificists-for-gay-soldiers-questioning-dan-choi.html
The moral clarity, integrity and actions of Lt. Aaron Watada who refused to serve in the empire's blood and torture wars far surpasses the disturbed conscience of Lt. Choi about having to lie, but who has voiced no objections to the actions and objectives of the US military machine. Which encapsulated seems to be "global military dominance by any means necessary". Words close to that are used in the Global 2020 document issued by the Pentagon. Are any courses taught at West Point or the other military academies on ethics and morality? Are the "quaint" provisions of the Geneva Accords even worthy of mention? Has any reporter asked Lt. Choi about his judment of the events at Guantanamo, the provisions for prisoners in the Geneva Accords, the rights of citizens under the now lost Habeas Corpus, the two successive shoot anything that moves sweeps of the seiges of Falluja or whether there is any military order that he would regard as morally unacceptable and would thus refuse to carry out? It is all very well to get on a moral high horse about his integrity and gay identity, but what about the countless military situations where the moral question at hand is the lives, homes and existence of innocent civilians caught in the high tech crossfire of modern warfare? Would he carry out orders which involved military attack on a known location of gay non-combatants just because these gays were identified as being somehow part of the enemy "other"? The brainwashing of the empire is intensely aimed at us all, and one wonders if Lt. Choi is yet to awaken from the spell cast upon the nation by the neocons, Republicans, and the many other well paid practioners of the "necessary manipulation of the mass public mind".
Lt Ehren Watada indeed refused deployment to Iraq, because it is a criminal war. But when he did so (several years ago), Watada requested deployment instead to Afghanistan, thinking it a legitimate war.
He was denied and court-martialed, but the case was declared a mistrial. He was not retried, due to a ruling that a re-trial would be unconstitutional "double-jeopardy".
Sioux Rose
COURT JESTER: Excellent post! Anyone who thinks the military today represents the REMOTEST form of honor or allegiance to principles worth killing or dying for is DELUSIONAL. An individual's sexual preference will not anesthetize the karmic burden wrought from entering into a "career" that given the misuse of the US military (as the fist in the glove to propel global corporate capitalism, without conscience) represents the wonton taking of innocent lives and bases for future (ruined infrastructure, denuded ecosystems, a trail of deadly chemical detritus from weaponry) livelihoods. It's a tragedy that so many have fallen before the altars of mammon and Mars, and worse still, that many of these take their broken allegiances for fealty to Divine or worthy causes.
Once powerbrokers learned they could get people to kill one another by telling them it was God's will, it's been largely downhill (historically) since. And the other carrot used when that stick fails is wampum. Everybody's gotta eat... and when the economy contracts to the point where killing is the only profitable business, the nation has sunk so low on the totem pole of allowable spiritual content that the lords of karma must act as equalizing force. I believe the US has entered that painful process now.
EXACTLY!!! == all talk about "civil rights" and all that are subsumed within the WAR MENTALITY .
consider - these were lessons taught since the times when the Ancient Greeks first codified with such brilliant writing practically EVERY challenge of societies that war today..including the "personal stories" and all that are contained in war, such as theft, rape, pillage, conniving, paid mercenaries, assassins, betrayals, families rent apart, friendships torn, treasons, fratricide, homicide, matricide, patricide, parents butchering their own children, "magic" weapons and talismans, and armors, physical regimens of "great warriors", the trojan horse, money, profit, power, rivalries, lovers, "bonding", favoritisms, women withholding sex from their soldier husbands to stop war, lesbians, amazonian women, bribery, elopements with huge consequences such as the "helen of troy".., thousands of battle ships, invasions, business dealings, cowardice, "lovers dying in battle", orphans, vengeance, honor, dishonor, shame, torture, homelessness, insanity, blood curdling crimes of passion, coldhearted cruelties , ...etc...
it's all there.
read HOMER once again. read the Iliad, read the Odyssey, read the Trojan War.
it's all there. INCLUDING these matters about 'civil rights of homos' .
This is correct.
While it is good in itself that Lt Choi "spoke up" in defiance of the "gay-ban" = the UNDERLYING EVIL that is WAR and SERVING a Militaristic IMperial Culture that COVERS HIS OWN gayness problem - was left unsaid. and in THIS _ lt Choi left something "UNSAID" that is even bigger than HIS personal concerns for being a soldier "denied my rights and benefits for being gay".
LT WATADA's position was/is far more truly principled in that he said he had ENOUGH of this war for its EVIL...and HE TOO, remember - also was going to be court martialled and denied his benefits.
this is not JUSt about "soldiers' benefits".
since thgose benefits themselves are a kind of BRIBERY by the MILITARISTIC culture to INDUCE men and women to "serve".
the BIG , central, ehtical , moral question covering all others is:
"YOU ARE SERVING WHAT?"
the answer is:
EMPIRe, WARS of CONQUEST and THIEVERY by the USA - the world's NUMBER ONE WAR MAKING , WAR INSTIGATING COUNTRY.
what are ALL foreign wars?
go back as far as Socrates:
"ALL FOREIGN WARS are waged for PROFIT and POWER ...they are nothing but THEFT of the the treasures of other Lands".
GREECE had its HOMOSEXUALS - OPENLY so - and were even the BEST warriors by their cultural norms =- specially because of their "love" ties that bound them as "fierce warriors".
the EQUIVALENT to that in the US ARMY CULTURE is "our BONDS as BROTHERS in COMBAT" that supposedly TRANSCENDS ALL ELSE
wchih they supposedly call 'HONOR'....
so long as - under the CHRISTIAN NATION UNDER GOD -- "you're not HOMO or don't say so" .
BEYOND and ABOVE all that and THROUGH all that -
it is STILL
"WARS WAGED FOR PROFIT , POWER and THEFT of the RESOURECES OF OTHER LANDS" ....
and as General Smedley Butler , US MARINES, the most decorated MACHO MARINE of US history's foreign wars said:
"for 30 years - i SUSPENDED my own conscience, knowing that what we DO is EVIL".
The ignorance and disrespect for our soldiers and Marines is a shame.
When someone says...soldiers are robots...they display a stunning depth of ignorance. When they display an ignorance of what the military does do and is intended for, they only embarrass themselves.
When someone says if we could just do away with armies and weapons we'd have peace, or if the US would stop keeping peace (which only children would dispute) they display a good heart, but ignorance of reality and the way the world is.
The world is still like the schoolyard, if your parents tell you to talk the bully out of beating you up, they shouldn't be surprised if you come home with a black eye. If they go to the school and complain to the Principal and he tells them he doesn't have the power to expel the bully, what do they do then? I'm quite sure everyone here know exactly what I mean.
Though I would be the first to say talk as much as you can, any possible avenue before but fighting, try anything you can before committing our armed forces, only children or fools don't know that you'd better be ready to punch that bully in the face and make it stick. That is reality. This isn't the "Age of Aquarius"
Henry8 -- maybe i am just being naive...but i just have a very strong feeling that YOU - of all people - should and could be one of the VERY best proponents of TRUE peace and ANTI-militarism and all the hubristic, arrogant, hypocritical notions of america that you find yourself trying to "defend" in some ways ..if only you would ALLOW yourself...and by that be MORE of an american - in the best sense of it.
Henry8:
"The ignorance and disrespect for our soldiers and Marines is a shame.
When someone says...soldiers are robots...they display a stunning depth of ignorance. When they display an ignorance of what the military does do and is intended for, they only embarrass themselves."
============
Henry8 -
consider this:
substitute certain words in your own sentences and it instantly describes the UNITED STATES of AMERICA in its relationship towards the REST of the world that it has habitually MEDDLED with and HUSTLED for its self-declared EXCEPTIONALIST "right" to do such things - to gain UNEARNED and UNJUSTIFIED advantage - not MERELY in what the USA itself proclaims and imposes as "competition" - but RIGS it so it can play the game IT imposes as "competition" but to advantage itself UNFAIRLY.
for instance, the sentence you put above:
"The ignorance and disrespect for our fellow afghanis and pakistanis and pashtuns and other tribes by the USA and western nations is a shame.
When americans and westerners say...we are backward and just "hajji's, and terrorists and insurgents ...they display a stunning depth of ignorance. When they display an ignorance of what the afghanis and our fellow central asians and south asians do and is intended for, they only embarrass themselves."
The "reality" of the matter is that soldiers in any army are hired or conscripted killers... murderers by any definition.
Your unfortunate gibberish is the obvious product of effective propaganda - manufactured consent.
Your argument is just grand. Now tell us all when was the last war the US had to fight to defend itself from some international "bully" making an unprovoked attack?
Poet
The ironies and hypocrisy on both sides of this argument have the making of a play in the theater of the absurd tradition.
Lt Choi's desire to be honest and open about his sexual orientation is worthy of respect. I wish he was as adamant about the unsuitability of a career as a mercinary in an all-volunteer military willing to fight imperial wars of conquest.
The opposition of those in authority to homosexuals serrving in the military is not matched by a similar revulsion towards the homosexuals on their staffs and in other adminstrative government agencies and thus has the hollow ring of hypocrisy.
Homosexuals argue for equal treatment in matters of economic and contract law but what they really want is for their lifestyle to have parity with heterosexuals. Heterosexuals oppossed to this bring up all manner of excuses ranging from unit morale to economic cost, but the most adament among them realy opppose this because they think it is a sin.
As a result of such dishonesty neither side can or will level with the other about their true desires and as a result of this basic dishonesty both sides keep talking past each other in a conversation that resembles more a continuing non- sequitar rather than any intelligent dialog.
Poet
So Lt. Choi won't lie about being gay. A deeper moral question is will he obey orders to torture, to water board, to stack naked bodies, to loose snarling vicious dogs? Or to shoot on sight anyone that moves, child, woman, aged or man as the US forces do in many situations by documented accounts? Or to be a live or drone pilot loosing high tech bombs of death and destruction on innocent gatherings of people at funerals or weddings? Or obey orders to commit any of the dozens of other atrocities the US military machine is committing now in the Middle East, and has committed in SE Asia in the 1960s and in Central and South America times countless times. Most US wars over the 200 years have been waged on small defenseless nations and tribal peoples with the US military using weapons and technology that far surpassed anything the locals had to defend themselves. Unfortunately, most USAns have absorbed these events as parts of the glorious, triumphant military history. Does Lt. Choi believe the offical claim that the US is delivering freedom and democracy to backward nations---via hellish military attack? Can anyone really put those two notions together in their minds? Does he wish that some enlightened nation had militarily invaded the benighted US and delivered GLBT liberation via killing millions, making millions more homeless, and destroying the water, electric and infrastructure, but sure enough, delivering certified "gay liberation"---please ignore the blood and guts wrapper? In brief, when will Lt. Choi's conscience awaken about other moral issues having catastrophic effects on the innocent lives of millions and thus ranking far beyond whether he has to lie. If his soul is troubled by his dilemma of lying, is it bothered about the morality of performing his duty in being part of the endless vicious unethical wars of the US global empire?
Sioux Rose
COURTJESTER: Wise words, well-spoken. One wonders how it is that a mind like that of Thomas More/Henry 8 can read them, and return to his knee JERK response that the military are the good guys. Why, look at their shiny boots and pressed uniforms? Think of the discipline that must be demonstrated in boot camp? Here are people ready to lay down their lives for...
That's where his mind skips a beat. No, it doesn't appear to Henry that today's soldier is not employed to promote the faintest ideal, rather, he's there to make sure the corporate giants get to lay their tentacles into other nations' bounty. The death of innocents, the statistical FACT that today's conflicts result in far more civilian statistics, that nice cold "collateral damage" idea, is only a foot note to his way of thought.
Does it not occur to those who watch the US go about the world like a drunken giant intent on battering whomever it chooses, that THIS type of behavior is causing more violence? Is it not the crux of paradox that the US is selling most of the weapons that will eventually be used in domestic battles or those with an outside invader, quite possibly our own "pacific" nation, "policeman" to the world, etc.
Deconstructing the myths around militarism, stripping away the fig leaf of patriotism may reveal some pretty ugly balls my friend.
Henry8th thinks the only use for a head is as a place to Hang a helmet.
Matangicita: I want to thank you for the good post that shows good reasoning with insight and truth.
Maybe the U.S. is trying to sweep Abu Ghraib under the rug and out of consciousness, but the rest of the world has not forgotten it.
Choi was on DemocracyNow yesterday waxing poetically about the wonderful virtues of the US Military and the drone killing machines who join to put out forest fires and deliver humanitarian aid.
And unfortunately (and it's not like her), Amy Goodman didn't say a word, sat on her thumbs and let this moron continue to spout his convoluted gibberish.
Hey Dan instead of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" how about "Don't Join."
I know. This is a bizarre place for the left to make a stand. When I was a teen and the Vietnam War was still going on, my thinking was that if it continued until I turned 18 and I was drafted, then claiming to be gay would be one option to get out of it (I am not gay). I know there are some disadvantages, but I thought that was one advantage to being gay. As I have a teen son and I expect some Republican lunatic to be installed in 2013, possibly Giuliani, I was hoping that my son would be able to make that same claim if necessary (I do not think he is gay either) if they reinstate the draft.
Why would people on the left be so concerned about the right to serve as stormtroopers in the Empire's army?
We are NOT going to have a draft again. Never again. Unless there is a Third World War.
Any true 'World War' would be over in a couple of hours, there won't be any draft in that instance.
Gays should be allowed to join and recieve positions concomitant w/ their souls; maybe in medical, intel, whatever, but most gays I've known were not violent, were not gun-types, and were intelligent. Ergo they should have the option of non-combat roles if they choose.
in my humble opinion
You can't choose your service in a volunteer army. Simply don't join. There are no non-combat roles in the Marine Corp. Everyone goes, everyone fights.
Now its differnt in a draft....no one should ever...not ever be forced into combat if they object for any reason. Let them go for medics, office work, whatever....but never combat if they have moral, religious or any objections at all.
But without a draft, if you don't want to serve, simply don't join.
But without a draft, if you don't want to serve, simply don't join.
--- hear hear !
Im still not sure why you would think killing is a good line of work though, gay or straight.
Libertarians press Congress on DOMA, ‘don’t’ ask, don’t tell’
Hate crimes bill opposed, cast as attempt by marriage opponents to buy LBGT votes
WASHINGTON -- America’s third largest party challenged House and Senate Democrats Monday to fully commit to the equal justice for gay and lesbian Americans by rejecting a proposed hate crimes law and repealing the Defense of Marriage Act and the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy barring military service by “out” gays and lesbians.
“Libertarians are the only party committed to equal justice under the law, whether it is protection from violence, marriage equality or the ability of a qualified person to serve in the military,” said Cat Sumner, Libertarian National Committee gay and lesbian policy advisor. “So-called ‘hate crimes’ bills further divide America by creating different classes of victims for the same crime. Instead of dividing the gay and straight communities, we should be treating everyone equally.”
“This so-called ‘hate crimes’ bill is just an attempt by Democrat opponents of marriage equality to hold on to gay and lesbian support without actually fighting for them,” said Sumner. “The Libertarian Party is the only party in America not afraid to engage in a no-compromise fight for a country where gays and lesbians can live their lives without government-sponsored harassment. Libertarians challenge Congress to prove they are truly committed to equal justice for gays and lesbians by dropping so-called hate crimes legislation and instead repealing DOMA and ‘don't ask, don't tell.’”
Libertarians consider the hate crimes bill not just a violation of equal justice under the law, but an attempt by legislators to buy gay and lesbian support while still opposing gay marriage and military service. The original sponsor of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, then-Republican Congressman Bob Barr (GA,) has recanted his support of the bill and is seeking its repeal. He was the Libertarian presidential nominee in 2008, winning the party’s second-highest presidential vote total in its 38-year history.
The House passed a hate crimes bill, H.R. 1913, on Apr. 29. On Jul 16. the Senate attached a hate crimes amendment to a military spending bill, both of which were approved. The House bill and Senate amendment must be reconciled in committee before being sent to President Obama for his signature.
For more information on this issue, or to arrange an interview with the Libertarian Party, please call Director of Communications Donny Ferguson at 703-200-3669 (BlackBerry) or 202-333-0008, x. 225 (office,) or emailDonny.Ferguson@lp.org.
The Libertarian Party is America's third-largest political party, founded in 1971 as an alternative to the two main political parties. You can find more information on the Libertarian Party by visiting http://www.LP.org. The Libertarian Party proudly stands for smaller government, lower taxes and more personal freedom.
The Libertarian Party platform on this: http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/libertarians-press-congress-on-doma-%E2%80%98don%E2%80%99t%E2%80...
There are several major shifts in Obama's military policy not getting covered by either side of the aisle. First, and foremost, is the new approach in training where U.S. soldiers are not taught to hate the people of Afghanistan, unlike the way soldiers were indoctrinated to hate the people of Iraq. While these have been well documented, the shift has barely been noticed. Coupled to this the DADT policy, which Obama has strategically been scheduled for right after he retires a couple of old war horses at the Pentagon. What a pity this hasn't been covered by anyone in the media.
Wow. Sitting here reading MardiGras' convoluted critique of Lt.Choi's decision to 'tell' and out the truth of his situation points to the convoluted lengths human beings are required to go to to rationalize the policies of an enterprise designed to make robots of human beings and engage in violent acts of piracy. That human beings within those ranks must pretend at all costs to be robots tells you something about what might be behind the many domestic violence offenders, suicides, addicted and homeless among our veterans, not to even mention the (unphotographable! don't ask! don't tell!) limbless or dead. Boot camps cannot fully break some humans. Career robot life can't be tolerated long for the human being. "Service" men and women need to be better apprised of what it is they're expected to be serving by recruiters. Ask and Tell should be mandatory....at least at the onset to determine who's 'fit' for living the lies required in killing civilians in order to save them from the dreaded fate of self-governance. It's simple: if you care a whit about the welfare of other human beings, you're out. If you care about the world of robotry above all else you're in. Sorry, this makes me angry. We are a very very angry world and the US an exceptionally angry country, but we are required by our media and to a certain extent even by our law not to ask or tell too much about THAT.
St. Francis of Assisi said, "Always from the child's hand the sword should be removed. I think every nation is an infant."
the Words that are most DAMNING of american hypocrisy --both in instigating wars and its OWN social policies - for a supposedly "democratic, justice, truth and fairness is the american way" nation that goes abroad with WAR to LEcture other nations how to behave , is:
=======
‘Brother, I know that you’re gay, but you’re still my brother, and you’re my friend. And if your country, that sent you to my country, if America, that sent you to Iraq, will discharge you such that you can’t get medical benefits, you can come to my hospital any day. You can come in, and I will give you treatment.’ ”
Choi ended, “I hope that our country can learn from that Iraqi doctor.”
Teddy...remember what Muslims do to gay's. I wouldn't want to depend on Iraq to help me, though the sentiment from this one guy is great.
Henry8 -- no more than what CHRISTIANS do to gays.
remember the young man CRUCIFIED and beaten and left to die - watching the field and the sunrise - alone and in terror and pain
because he was gay? his OWN FELLOW CHRISTIANS did that to him.
what difference does it make then?
what HAVE christians REALLY been doing to gays in america? they've ostracised them, sent them hiding in the closet to live terror-filled lives, in pretense and destroyed in their inner lives - and expected outwardly to "be good christian citizens">
what difference is there , really?
BUT here is an EXAMPLE of where EVEN the "gay hating muslims" CAN be more tolerant:
did you KNOW that even if in IRAN - with its fudnamentalist Shiite -
a person who is gay and DECLARES himself as such - or is KNOWN in his community as such - is as often as not - IF he can find a "protector" (such as a "lover" , etc.) - apply for STATE FUNDED or STATE supplemented funding to have a sex-change operation?
the point is: they FOUND or "rigged" a way in which a "gay" person be allowed to "become who he(she) is" -- become a WOMAN with sex-change.
it is highly limiting in its own way - but they actually SOCIALLY , and LEGALLY "open a door" .
there was in fact a famous case - it was called a "romantic love story" and quite celebrated in Iran years ago:
a GAY man had a lover - he was obviously rather "effeminate" and so was barely tolerated in a very macho society.
BUT his lover HAPPENED to be a highranking AYATOLLAH! can you believe that?
sure, they pulled strings. but eventually the "MAN" of the love-story - used his money - and the "woman" of the story agreed to "become" a woman.
and then -- they got married. they first LOVED each other as Man and man -- but their society does not allow THAT - BUT LEFT OPEN a possibility for that LOVE to live ON - by dictating that a "gay" is "really a woman and NEEDS to be given the chance to BECOME who SHE really is - a WOMAN, after all" ...
but the main point is - they did not LOSE SIGHT of the CENTRAL thing between the two persons: LOVE. EVEN if it began as one between man and man.
and that's the end of the story.
does the USA REALLY have THAT?.
Teddy you say "no more than what CHRISTIANS do to gays.
I'm not defending the bigoted so-called "Christians" and their Old Testament biases, but to compare the treatment of LGBT people in so-called "Christian" countries to that in Muslim countries and call it equal is at best naive. This bent of progressives to paint all religions as being about loving your enemies, tolerance, peace and non-violence is absurd. I have been studying Islam and the Qu'ran for the past few months now and I can tell you that Islam is the opposite to the teachings of Jesus Christ on most issues. There is no turn the other cheek, Allah commands his followers to go to war for him and to retaliate against anyone who attacks them etc. Under Sharia'a law it is stoning to death for adulters (compared to Jesus' "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"), hand and foot to be lopped off for thieves, death for anyone who renounces Islam (actually practiced in 6 Islamic countries and it is prison in all the others) and it is death or prison in all Muslim countries to question or criticize Mohammed or Islam (not conducive to a real reality/truth based education system) so it is part of the reason that Islam is growing - no one is allowed to leave it or even tell the truth about Mohammed's life, and they have the highest birthrate in the world.
Sharia'a law also calls for the death penalty for anyone who is born homosexual. Human Rights groups estimate that since the Islamic Revolution in Iran between 3,000 and 4,000 homosexuals have been executed. There is no tolerance. What you allude to, changing one's sex is for transexuals, a smaller group. This group does have an option to change sex and excape death but changing sex for homosexuals is as much as an aversion as it is, I assume, for you. (And all this intolerance and sexual obsession in a country that has "temporary marriage", Mato, so people can have sexual flings. These "temp marriages" can last hours or years and are easy to get and easy to end, and this doesn't even take into consideration the 4 wives Muslim men are allowed to have to satisfy their lust for other women. And they call the West "decadent" and all Western women whores!)
There are at least 6 Islamic countries that execute homosexuals and all the rest have prison, and this is usually combined with other punishments like whipping. So, no, as bad as many so-called Christian countries can be (especially in Africa which is very homophobic for the most part) Muslim countries and Muslim laws are much harsher, intolerant and cruel to homosexuals and LGBT people in general.
Islam is a cruel, intolerant and violent religion and it can be traced right back to its founder and its god who demands the most incredible punishments for "disbelievers" and others. Mohammed was a bandit who led his followers in raiding caravans and even killing some of the men and ransoming the women and children. He personally led his followers in the mass murder of hundreds of Jewish men in Medina who wouldn't accept him as their prophet, and he sold their women and children into slavery. He led his followers on hundreds of raids. In short, he was a man of violence and intolerance of anyone who refused to accept him and his new religion. His religion cannot in any way be compared to what Jesus of Nazereth taught. It is the opposite, and the Qu'ran states very clearly that Jesus was not the Son of God, was not divine, was not crucified, did not die on the cross and was not resurrected, all the while we hear the chorus of Muslims shouting "we believe in Jesus, why don't you believe in Mohammed?" Well, they believe in "A" Jesus but it is not the Jesus of the Gospels, which Islam proclaims to be corrupt and false. If Christianity had it in its dogma and scripture stating that Mohammed was not a prophet and the Qu'ran was a corrupt, false book, you can bet every Bible and church would be burned and the streets would run with the blood of every person thought to be Christian. Eventhough Islam is very AntiChrist in its teachings, Christians don't react violently to it and you even have the Pope and Archbishop of Canterbury bowing and scraping to Islam expressing their respect for this most disrespectful of religions.
Any violent or intolerant actions perpetrated by so-called Christians throughout history cannot be compared equal to those of Muslims because Mohammed is their role model and he was a violent, even murderous man and called on his followers to "kill unbelievers wherever you find them" and to kill any Muslim who renounces Islam. Jesus was the opposite, so anyone who claims to be a follower of him who commits violent/intolerant acts goes against his teachings and his example. Not at all the same. It's time the "liberals" in the West who are apologists for Islam do a little studying and find out what this religion is really about. You have no idea of the very real danger you are putting your children and grandchildren. Islam is not pretty, and it certainly is not the same as Christianity - at least what was taught by Jesus Christ, instead of the teachings of Paul and Augustine, which is what most of what passes itself off as Christianity now is really based on.
Oh, I might add that I do not believe in any religion but that religion separated us all from the true and loving Creator, so I'm not a Christian and therefore not arguing from that point of view.
AND not in defense of Islam or any religion for that matter....
when you say "ISLAM is a CRUEL RELIGION, it's there in its" basic tenets...
what is one to say about the BIBLE and its GOD that seems happy to lay down LAWS of such constriction while at the same laying down TEMPTING goodies - and THEN gives "free choice" to his creations and THEN when they DO choose to get the temptation -
he PUNISHES them for what he CREATED them to BE?
there in the very beginnings of Christianity or "judeo-christianity" is a GOD OF CRUELTY and JEALOUSY and REVENGE
as the PRICE for "god's love".
what KIND of religion is that?
in that sense - how is islam WORSE?
as I said - these things are merely packaged DIFFERENTLY.
muslims stone homosexuals publicly - as a vestige of older customs that are still alive in less "modernized" societies.
Christians "stone" their homosexuals by denying them rights in a SOCALLED advanced Society.
what is the difference?
there is STILL unnecessary suffering because some are "different" as they are perceived.
i woudl have thought that if you considered yourself a "freethinker" that OBVIOUS thing would have been first in your observation. otherwise it seems that you are only "thinking" things from the standpoint of RELATIVE differences of social "modernity" or norms between "christian" or "western" societies brought up in the context of jude0christian "law and norms and justice"
from that of more "backward" societies that happen to profess Islam.
on the OTHER hand - there is a SUFI tradition in islam , based in yemen - where it is considered rather mystical - and where the emphasis is on "one on one" with god - and actually has gathered , quite openly, influences from religions and evfen NON_religious thoughts OUTSIDE of islam -0 such as buddhism, greek philosophy, etc...where "learners" of the "sufi way" are taught that all religions are just different paths to the same realization of "god" - and that this includes "maintaining one's native culture" without necessarily BECOMING a Muslim.
it's one reason why the southeast asians who have adapted to it are actually considered much more "tolerant" because of its greater ability to practice "tolerance" as opposed to , say, Shiites, or Sunnis or the Saudi arabian ultra conservative Wahdis.
the point IS:
where there are those differences among them - they are no different from differences between a MORMON and a CATHOLIC or Protestant.
and YET BOTH christians and muslims ostracise Homosexuals.
but WHERE ISLAM - or arabic, as far as I know, has NO word for "gay" because they simply don't RECOGNIZE it as existing - even if it DOES and their societies, with or without islam find ways "around the thing" (it as actually OPENLY tolerated among the EARLIER shiites of persia, did you know that, much of their classical poems attest to this, but taht, PERHAPS has MORE to do with PERSIAN culture rather than ISLAM , finding its way INTO shiite islam of generations ago and even TODAY in allowing "sexchange" quite openly) -- WHERE ISLAM does not tolerate it in edicts....by not even having a NAME for it
CHRISTIANITY talks about it - based on "christ" saying ONCE in ALL of his teaching --
and makes an OBSESSION about it - while NEGLECTING what CHRIST talked about DOZENS and DOZENS of times
JUSTICE!
Teddy "what is the difference?"
Well, Teddy, there is a BIG difference between being murdered by an Islamic society and being ostracized in a "Christian" one!! Lord, how can you compare the two? As a gay man myself I can surely have no problem deciding which I would prefer.
And when you talk of "Christian" societies ostracizing homosexuals fewer and fewer even do that. The African so-called Christian societies are the worst but in the West just about all that is left of the ostracizing societies in the developed world is USAmerica and even that puritanical, conservative, bigoted country is slowly changing and there is more acceptance with most large companies giving domestic partner benefits and several states now have marriage or domestic partner rights.
My partner and I are Ex-USAmericans now living in Spain/Europe and the difference in mentality, attitude and actions is notable. Here in Spain, under the present Socialist government, we as a homosexual couple of 18 years have full and equal civil and human rights and are married. Spain, as a glowing example of a true progressive society, had a navy man who acknowleged his transexuality a couple of years ago and the navy treated him with true humanity and transferred him/her to the female navy service. The only controversy with this male to female transexual in the Spanish military was whether the national health service or the navy would pay for his/her sex change! Compare that to the backward attitude of the US military! Many European countries have same-sex marriage or at least domestic partnerships and the European charter of human rights outlaws discrimination against us. Poland, under the leadership of the past conservative Prime
inister and his evil twin as President went out of their way to persecute homosexuals a few years ago, but the Prime Minister was very unpopular and was voted out at the last election, though his evil twin as President still is in office, and still vastly unpopular for his rightwing, religionist views still has time left in his position. When these two were persecuting homosexuals the EU informed them that Poland could and would be expelled from the European Union for this backward position if they didn't cease.
Canada is another shining example of a tolerant society for gays and even some Latin American countries, now that they have thrown off the shackles of the rightwing dictators installed and supported by the US, are moving toward implementing equal rights for LGBT people, like Brazil, Argentina and even newly liberated Uruguay with their new Socialist government after decades of oppression of everyone but the elite by a severe rightwing US puppet regime.
So, Teddy, treatment of homosexuals/LBGT people in so-called Christian countries is not even close to the persecution, oppression and prosecution of them in Muslim societies where the Islamic law calls for death. It is amazing that only 6 or so of them actually kill gays, but even the most "progressive" (and I use the term very loosely since even the most progressive Islamic societies would be at the very bottom of the list in human/civil rights in the West) imprison them. Turkey, arguably the most progressive Islamic country, doesn't even have freedom of religion as it imprisons Muslims who renounce Islam and who openly question or criticize Mohammed/Islam (not long ago a respected woman professor of history was arrested for making statements about Mohammed thought to be "offensive",though true, so even university students are not told the truth about him or his religion, as would be normal in a western university setting.)
Sufis are different, but I am not aware of their being accepting of LGBT people, and they are a distinct minority in the vast pool of Islam.
"does the USA REALLY have THAT?."
I hope so Teddy. I hope so. But if not I believe we are getting there .
but as you can just realize with BARACK OBAMA as WAR PRESIDENT
who has launched the actual beginnings of a war with IRAN - and MORE countries pushing deeper into central asia right to the borders of china and russa - BEYOND escalating in Afgahnistan and NOW spreading INTO pakistan -- and OPENING a "new" front against venezuela and latin america THROUGH colombia and honduras - (the MO of a WAR president and war CULTURE) -
gets his "NOBEL PEACE" prize
"HOPE" isn't the same as IS.
therefore - from the standpoint of any observer - for any american to point fingers at - say - IRAN or MUSLIMS for having repressive institutions - such as against homosexuals
while the SAME is TRUE - though clothed differently - IN THE USA for its ENTIRe existence as a nation ....and what's more in its SYMBOL of its MILITARY EMPIRE and "greatness"....
is simply inconsistency.
I feel that you are very well-meaning american, Henry8 , and that you sincerely wish for peace and kinship among all people.
but sometimes -- i think that you are still viewing things from "within" the established order of american "might and pride" and all its Myths -- and one of these is the "greatness and HONOR" of being "a marine" or a member of ARMED FORCES of a nation whose ARMED FORCES have been REALLY for the purpose of creating and expanding and maintaining an EMPIRE
whose purpose and demonstrable actions - through its corporations, its "business model", its "EMPIRE and FULL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE AT ALL COSTS" - its "shining city on the hill" HUBRIS - its tortures, assassinations, fomenting insurrections and isntabilities, its provocations - its DEMANDS
such as against Russia "to abandon the cold war" (HILLARY CLINTON yesterday) - WHEN IN REALITY it has been the USA all along that NEVEr abandoned it...
these and many more, including the ROMANTIC notion of "HONOR and BROTHERHOOD OF THE MARINES" and SOLDIERING ABROAD where the USA HAS NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER setting foot to ADVANCE its CORPORATE MILITARISTIC AGENDAS ...
you are merely echoing those things. even if you are beginning to question their WISDOM !
it is high time, HENRY8 - my friend - to LOOK CLEARLY at what this MILITARISM and GLORIFICATION has DONE to the USA , its people, and the world wherever the USA puts its DIRTY
DISHONORABLE, UNDEPENDABLE and UNTRUSTWORTHY fingers.
we ALL have NO TIME spending wasteful mental and physical and spiritual energy trying to HANG ON to a MILITARISTIC GLORY that is well past its TIME in human history
when our OWN PLANET our very own MOTHER EARTH is BURNING right under our feet because of SUCH things as MILITARISM for EMPIRE that just RAVAGES entire continents.
and TODAY - its GREATEST practitioner of THAT
is NONE OTHER than the USA
with its "ADVANCE GUARD" of the MARINES!
there is NOTHING glorious nor respectable about that.
"THERE IS NOTHING GLORIOUS OR NOBLE about war - war is HELL, it is nothing but PILLAGE< RAPE and THEFT of the treasures of other nations"
General Smedley Butler, US MARINES! echoing SOCRATES 2,300 years before him and the USA and ITS marines! and bombs and tortures and thievery abroad!
PERIOD!
Sioux Rose
TEDDY: I hereby nominate you for the "Transcending Mars Rules" award. Bravo. Please take a bow. And there's a bonus if you can get Thomas More to see the logic behind why YOU'VE won it! (Virtually won, of course, but virtually means a lot in THIS medium!)
Thank you SiouxRose..although something like that is remote for me to even imagine being worthy of. I am just like anyone else that just - roughly speaking - gets banal and sentimental - for lack of better ways of saying, that there is just so much suffering that is so unnecessary . and it needs to STOP..it needs to stop from our own personal ways to try as best as we can to live as consciously ethical as we could...even if we are mostly trapped in such cruel, unjust systems that just feed upon each other in a never-ending cycle, and YET it is within the power of those that HAVE power and within the power of those that are able to live within their own little spaces to live ehtically, to think of others, to think of the WORLD , to think of small children, the old, the poor, the "ignorant", the innocent..
and think, think, think _
WHAT AM I in this world if i am not even able to SEE that human beings are just that - creatures with frailties just like myself - but who shouldn't be subjected to cruelties by the powerful?.
sometimes - i honestly want to just STOP reading news, just go into my own little "hole" of a life just because I can't helpt crying everytime I read something that is just not RIGHT at all:
a hardworking american lady that i briefly knew as an acquaintance - with such kindness in her heart came down with lymphoma and needs treatment, but can't get off her work becuse she HAS to - and yet doesn't have insurance...so she and her husband are facing a nightmare that has visited so many, bankruptcy, etc. etc....and is REDUCED to writing handwritten please for a little contribution here and there...
poor children in africa who don't even know what an Ipod might be have to struggle to breathe or swallow because they are so sick because, MORE than the civil conflicts in their own countries, their own societies are merely PAWNS in the global "great game" for profits and its consequent "artificial scarcity"...
children or old people in afgahnistan who should be FLYING KITES and joy and celebration of their long cultures are running to and fro hiding from bombs - and because of the meddling by powerful countries - are trapped in the arms of the Repressive Taliban...
the People of New guinea are NOW very worried that they are seeing planeloads of Corporate Cargill "palm oil" seeds to make plantations out of their beautiful islands - and destroy what they STILL SAY is :"our way of living has always been about sharing and giving...."
now "we have to live with these things that they call money"...
and Barack Obama is a NOBEL Peace Prize Winner - BECAUSE?
a member of the NOBEL COMMITTE REVEALED - upon insistent interviewing that "yes - we decided to APPLY the FINANCIAL norms of awarding....after all - if wall street and stocks can WAGER on futures -- we thought, if we wagered on Barack Obama doing the RIGHT decisions for peace -- the PEACE DIVIDENDS would increase...and as soon as word that the award was going to be given, leaked - the STOCKS in SWEDENE ROSE UP overnight".....
in other words they are using WAR and PEACE as PLAYING CARDS for "peace dividends"?
what kind of mentality is this?
if our leaderships have brought us ALL - particularly the RICH who "lead" in everything that is "anything" in the world of "classes" - to the brink of self-destruction and destroying our beloved Mother Earth....
what business does ANY country, LEAST of all the UNITED STATES that has LED in such things in accelerating such disastrous ways of behavior and PROVOKING and CHALLENGING other countries to do LIKEWISE WHILE preaching for them
"NOT TO DO IT"...as if RESERVING to itself the RIGHT to DO HARM as it sees fit....
what business does any country have in claiming "righteousness" when , where people , mostly in rich countries, HAVE had the MANY CHANCES of making CHOICES to do LESS harm as a consequence of their lifestyles LEADING to rresources wars, for example, that any of us are WORTHY of even existing on this planet?.
we, or are LED to , behave in such a way that it is almost like a child that does not recognize his own mother and does not wish to HONOR her for giving him life and sustenance .
WAR is one way of showing that INGRATITUDE towards our Mother Earth.
it's unbearable to watch and KNOW that this is actually what we DO as a species.
incidentally -- don't forget that - bad as hussein was - IRAQ was one of the most social-infrastructurally advanced countries in the middle east -- with a great percentage of highly trained professionals -- such as Doctors .
THE US Lying Invasion - just destroyed it. and talking about WMD's and "civilization". and most americans have absolutely NO sense of the IRONY in how the USA destroyed much of what is one of the oldest civilizations on earth - and then practically - bragging about it with "victory" and "pacifying" and "democraticing"........
Sioux Rose
TEDDY: If someone with a voice like mine was on radio you can be sure the public that doesn't YET get the irony would soon see the menacing analogy between the reduction in their own living standards and the callous disregard with which they have stood by as the nation was thoroughly usurped by a bloodless coup. Some tried to fight back, protest, wake up their sleeping brothers and sisters as this band of murdering, lying, amoral, soulless cheats and sadistic sociopaths hiding behind religion, blue blood money, and patriotism (when propaganda, fear and mind control don't get the "job" done) led the nation to RUIN.
We can only hope that a period of resurrection will follow by the Grace of those who were committed to a better world, kept the ideal of social justice alive in their hearts, and did what they could to improve the lot of others as their way of life.
SiouxRose -- just KNOWING that there are individuals like you - everywhere -- that keeps alive and WELL , despite everything, that belief, or confidence or "faith" that in the end, HUMANITY , goodness , is and will remain the DESTINY , the TRUE destiny of our species...and that one day - despite all the challenges that are now consuming us all -
and MOST CRUCIALLY because we are BEING TAUGHT by Mother Earth- whether we want to learn or not at this moment -
that our TRUE DESTINY as a species is to do TWO THINGS:
1) take good care of each other
2) take good care of Mother earth.
for me - that is and has always been the ONLY matter of ANY importance or meaning.
it is a very , very long road, one that is perhaps EITHER made necessary because of our failures or human frailties or whatever circumstances in existence presented to us to "encourage" or strengthen forces that are destructive and crule
OR
UNnecessary when all the lessons were already probably being shown by Earth all along, but which , in the Rampage for "advantage" - got lost in the recognition by MOST but NOT ALL people or societies.
MY own personal view is that:
our existence , as children of Mother Earth and the Universe, is ONE deep in its essence , of having a destiny that is GOOD for EACH and ALL that ever lived or will yet live , even if that has not been the case -- YET.
but that ultimately -- it is about being ONE with the universe and that this is something that goes beyond our human notions of reality for the moment.
I believe that after all is said and done: our True Destiny as a species is to take good care of what Mother Earth and the Universe has gifted us with..and TOWARDS that taking good care of each other...
and that the TWO are INSEPARABLE from each other, when we finally , or eventually reach a stage - whatever we BECOME thousands of years from now - or millions maybe, if we survive the "tests" or challenges today in our relatively SHORT evolution and "dominance" as a species - a STAGE that (it may be an endless evolution, as far as we know) -
will SHOW us our TRUE nature - and that - like Mother Earth
it is GOOD, and GENEROUS and GIVING - with so MUCH plenty that ALL greed , ALL instincts or "wiring" for "greed"
are simply EVOLVED into NONexistence and irrelevance.
somehow, despite all the problems and cruelties - - i still believe that.
but most of all - because we CAN be certain that THAT "essence" in the nature of our true destiny - IS present in all of us -- and SOME human beings - even in THIS Phase of our evolution as biological entities and societies, ACTUALLY
has BEEN demonstrated by great examples .
most of us JUST didn't learn it or have , for one reason or another, been DISABLED to LEARN it and practice it universally
and to see HOW SIMPLE it really has been:
we are ALL ONE and the SAME and we ALL belong to EACH other and we ALL belong to mother earth who gives us PLENTY to share and to BE what we can yet be for the future -
EVEN - become "like gods" and live on other planets - but ALWAYS with AWE and Gratitude , despite our technological genius and accomplishments to see that
"MOTHER EARTH" is really
the UNIVERSE ...in which Her Children are Children of the Stars
created, evolved, lived , explored, in order to partake of her blessings which have No limits! and in that see ourselves as part of it...and see that
as Divine and Generous and Giving as the "mother" is -
we ARE of that mother - and therefore need have no FEAR that we shall "want" because - truly - if we SHARED - it is ALL THERE for us to play, just LIKE children all in AWE of simply being able to EXIST in all this unbelievable , mystical, glorious beauty of existence.
Sioux Rose
TEDDY: You sure are on a super-surge of writing today! I love your phrasing, "RAMPAGE FOR ADVANTAGE." Did you know that when I use the adage, "Mars rules" that Mars is the Zodiac's ram, and thus terms like "rampage" derive from this creature and its legendary impulse to just rush into things? In any case, may I have your permission to use this quote if the subject of Aries/Mars rules comes up, as it tends to (at least in my cosmic mind)?
Hi SiouxRose...it's always an honor , u know, when you cite what might in actuality just be accidental expressions that somehow might mean something useful from me.
I just wrote something that seemed at the moment ALL i could really find words for, mainly because I am mostly just "grasping" at straws trying to clarify what I feel about things.
I think of it more as having :"stumbled" on some things -- what to you are already all too apparent and for which there is no need for you to even "ask" for "permission" since what is expressed is already something you most likely have a much better, deeper awareness of. it's just words after all...and the THOUGHT , i think, is the really important thing , which you already had . "asking" me for that is , believe me, far too much of an honor i don't really deserve.
but thank you, just the same.
Haven't listened in a while, but Mike Malloy talks pretty plainly about such things on the radio.
It never fails to amuse me how the world's greatest fighting force, the world's greatest military machine, has so far been unable to "pacify" even one city in Iraq, the city of Baghdad.
Different thing entirely. Though I believe most Americans now know that this was a personal agenda of a few chickenhawks and was a lie from the start. I believe most Americans just want us out and to do our best to repair the damage we did, but I don't think we can do that much.
But the money would be better spent rebuilding than maintaing troops there if we are going to spend it.
the americans NOW want to be OUT after they realize it is COSTING THEM in the pocket and their "pride" .
but americans went ALL GAGA abotu BOMBING IRAQ
EVEN after it was revealed and all signs were clear that it was all a LIE.
so - americans ARE complicit as a nation in the dstruction of Ancient Mesopotamia.
and they ARE repeating it towards Afghanistan, pakistan. \
and STILL have NO qualms at all abotu "bombing iran"
"IF iran proceeds with nuclear power"
EVEN IF IRAN HAS EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to do so - while the USA's CLIENT ISRAEL has not even signed such treaties that iran has obeyed as its RIGHT among nations -- which the USA ITSELF ENJOYS .
that is HYPOCRISY, Henry8 - no matter how you slice or dice it.
H Y P O C R I S Y!
I believe if you check, you'll find that the majority of Americans want us out. And not everyone went GaGa over the infantile "Shock and Awe" a name that could only come from a bunch of back room warriors.
Nuculear power is not the same as Nuclear weapons. And I would certainly hate to see Iran gain them as would the whole middle east.
Like the rest of the world I'd say we aren't above practicing a little hypocrisy from time to time. The current administration seems to be making a meal of it.
The best chance for middle east peace is a nuclear armed Iran. Without the ability to protect itself from American aggression, it will only be a matter of time before the US comes after their resources.
Remember, the US has reserved the right to preemptively use nukes in a conventional war if substantial (whatever that means) numbers of US troops were at risk. This means that if we start a conventional war and are getting beaten, we reserve the option to turn things around with nukes.
Of course, this only works if we can sucker others into disarming so that we can be the only ones in the room with a gun. Why do you think we continue to violate the NPT by failing to disarm as we agreed to?
The best chance for middle east peace is a nuclear armed Iran. Without the ability to protect itself from American aggression, it will only be a matter of time before the US comes after their resources.
Remember, the US has reserved the right to preemptively use nukes in a conventional war if substantial (whatever that means) numbers of US troops were at risk. This means that if we start a conventional war and are getting beaten, we reserve the option to turn things around with nukes.
Of course, this only works if we can sucker others into disarming so that we can be the only ones in the room with a gun. Why do you think we continue to violate the NPT by failing to disarm as we agreed to?
So far as I'm concerned, Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a silly policy that has caused the military no end of unnecessary headaches. In today's Army, where Soldiers are expected to respect the cultural values of drug dealing warlords who keep children as sex slaves, the idea that the men and women of the military aren't mature enough to handle serving alongside openly gay service members is nonsense. I've known a few gay Soldiers who were good guys, and their sexuality had little or no affect on unit morale and cohesion. No one really cared what they did in their private lives, and I always felt bad for them for having to try and skirt the issue of their personal lives in the professional environment.
That said, I draw a huge line of distinction between the kind of Soldiers I served with and Soldiers who actively seek out discharge to make political statements. 1LT Choi wasn't awkwardly found out and removed against his will. His military service was less important to him then his politics, and decided to have himself removed to draw attention to the situation he sought to bring onto himself.
The problem with 1LT Choi isn't who he is, it's his decision to announce it. He's well within his rights under Don't Ask, Don't Tell to speak out against the policy publicly, and to attend or lead gay advocacy protests. What he can't do is publicly reveal his sexuality. It's a dumb policy. It's also current policy, and a Soldier has no place ignoring or willfully breaking military law because they don't like it and don't think it should apply to them. If 1LT Choi didn't feel he could live within the constraints of military regulations and laws, he never should have sworn an oath to do so. He's not unfit to serve because he's gay. He's unfit to serve because he found his personal life important enough to betray the commitment he made to the American people to lead Soldiers. His motives don't forgive the consequences of his actions.
There are few things as dangerous to military readiness as a Soldier who disregards laws and orders because he doesn't like them. I feel exactly the same about 1LT Choi's performance as I would if he had put on the uniform and campaigned for a politician, or got on TV to announce he was sleeping with an enlisted Soldier. He isn't someone who slipped up or made an accidental mistake. He scheduled a TV interview on a popular news program to draw as much attention as possible to himself as he disregarded military regulations and broke his commitment to the Army. Since then he has proceeded to appear at rallies in uniform to advocate his politics, a highly inappropriate violation of military regulations. If I had a leader with his apparent priorities and poor conduct it would severely degrade my morale and faith in his abilities.
When that day comes that this policy is changed, I very much hope it's stipulated that service members who have behaved as 1LT Choi has are barred from ever reentering the military.
MardiGras Bandit
You have just made the most reasonable statement I've seen about this issue and Lt. Choi.
We certainly agree about the silliness of the current policy, which was no more than making existing fact in the military into formal policy. We had gay Marines in our units, most knew who they were...no big deal except for the homophobes, not much different than the bigots. They were few and didn't really matter. No one was scared the gay guy was going to "jump them in the shower" or any of that other garbage. They usually went to different bars is about the only real difference.
Toughest Marine I had in Boot was a gay guy, its stereotypes again. But, your point on his leading soldiers is well taken, that kind of mentality gets people killed.
Well Henry,
i'm pretty sure you are not going to bend an inch on any of this, BUT:
Obedience gets a HELL of a lot more people killed than disobedience. On both sides of the weapon - obeying orders to kill, is also obeying orders to go into harms way.
We could use a LOT MORE disobedience, throughout our society, but very importantly, in the military.
Like i said, i suspect you will simply not grant legitimacy to the long-standing, deep traditions of thought and action regarding obedience and disobedience.
But you are wrong.
Of course you may say "We must have obedience BECAUSE..." and "We must have obedience DESPITE..." and you may talk about the importance of the military to our nation or our values or our way of life or civilization or the fate of humanity, OR WHATEVER.
And then others can point out the deeply horrific actions of our nation, and the deeply compromised nature of our "values", and the devastating consequences of our "way of life", and the absolutely unsustainable nature of our "civilization", and the complete disconnect between military obedience and the survival of humanity...
And i suspect, again, that you will simply not accept any of it. We've been through these discussions with you before.
"There are few things as dangerous to military readiness as a Soldier who disregards laws and orders"
--------------------------------
Quite true. Just think if the soldiers of the Wehrmacht in '39 had decided that it would be a crime against peace to invade Poland. That would have made hash of Nazi military readiness for sure, for sure. Saved about 50M lives, of course, but what's that when set against obedience to authority.
I worked in Germany through most of the '60s. Because of my job, I occasionally had to interact with Bundeswehr soldiers. The one thing they all had drilled into them from the moment they were issued with their uniform was that it was *THEIR* responsibility to disregard 'laws and orders' that contradict the common heritage of civilisation we in Europe and the Americas all receive as part of our early-childhood socialisation. That no matter *what* their sergeant or captain or general said, it was their duty to refuse to obey if, in their considered personal judgement, the order would result in an offence against humanity or peace.
And they were quite militant about making sure their NCOs and officers knew they were committed to principled disobedience, too. They and the stroppy squaddies of Britain's Rhine Army made a poignant contrast to the unthinkingly obedient US troops I often dealt with.
Mairead, thank you for sharing. the concept of a principled soldier is new to me. and righteous. imagine, thank you JL, imagine no wars, or US soldiers w/ morality superceding indoctrination.
Your analogy is typical and insulting to our soldiers. Its also a civilians view of the military. Its also the exact reason Europe doesn't want American troops withdrawn.
Your Bundeswehr soldiers would lose a contest with a bunch of Vietnamese teenagers. They are a joke in case you weren't aware of it. Worthless on the battlefield and any military analyst can tell you why.
Henry how are you so sure Europeans (and i'm not talkink about governments there) don't want Usean troops out? For a start France has no Usean troops anymore since the 60's, second check out what's going on in Italy ...
I'll add that there is nothing insulting for the soldiers, international law authorises soldiers to refuse orders when orders are in violation of international laws. And there are no good soldiers, i encourage you to read Dahr Jamail book beyond the green zone...
some soldiers reported - about Afhganistan :
"what we saw in IRAQ compares NOTHING to THESE afghanis".
"if all things were really EQUAL, without our helicopters and drones and missiles and big bombs...and we fought on EQUAL terms - the fighting would be OVER in 3 days - we would LOSE bigtime to these fierce warriors".
No Teddy, we wouldn't lose in three days. Though many here would like to portray our soldiers as robots or they need all sorts of technical stuff or they would lose hand to hand against these "fierce" warriors, its simply not true.
They have the advantage, thats all. Send both groups into the hills and its our boys that would come back. Having to defend fixed positions/villages/etc is a great disadvantage. The rules of engagement are a great disadvantage.
perhaps, perhaps, Henry8...
and at the context of the US soldiers' winning ....
what is the POINT?
is the matter that US soldiers would WIN a BATTLE - become the JUSTIFICATIOn for ENTERING the borders of other countries, invade, occupy, lay down "rules" -- where the USA DOESN"T BELONG to begin with?
you are missing the fundamental point here.
it is NOT about JUST "winning or losing" - it is that the USA HAS NO BUSINESS trying to build its empire at the expense of other nations or people and being in neighborhoods far, far away with its military footprint where it DOES NOT BELONG! period!
as Patrick Buchanan said:
" WE DIDN'T LIKE IT WHEN THE USSR WAS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IN CUBA..........SO.........what are WE doing in Russia's neighborhood of central asia and the caucasus and littoral states?"
"we should get out of this business of empire and get out of those lands before they kick us out".
and as a soldier - one of the first to die in iraq - said - who was called "peaceful warrior" in some articles in 2004 said,:
"EVEN if WE could do these things as leaders tell us ...what does it really say about us? that we can do whatever we want BECAUSE we CAN do it..because we are the world's Lone Superpower?"
I suppose -0 you might also say, Henry8 - that the US soldiers are SO COURAGEOUS --
with their advanced bombs, and drones, and helicopters, and night vision, and texas computers and push buttons , and aerial surveillance, reconnaisance, guidance, radar, big tanks, big bombs, bunker busters, nukes, Starred Generals, corporate mercenary metrics, fancy maps , expensive "combat gear" and uniforms, better nutritional value diets, muscle building exercises, BIG men, with BIG muscles, TRAINED like Superwarriors, etc. etc. etc. etc. ?
and THAT ALL AMOUNTS to "Courage".........against a people with BACKWARD guns, rifles, handmedowns, pilfered gasoline, living in caves and huts, walking barefoot or fighting in slippers and ragged gowns, and eating out of shared tin plates or wooden utensils --whose MAIN "advantage" is because
IT HAPPENS TO BE THEIR LAND which the americans DON"T have any business MEDDLING IN and trying to control and SHAPE according to the ideology of the "shining city on the hill",
and whose presence ONLY exacerbated what problems there were and made it WORSE by MANY degrees.
Afghanistan is historic Arab land? Iraq is Saudi and Iranian land? Careful where you are treading. Blindly painting all brown people as part of the same group of freedom fighters defending their homeland is as bigoted and ignorant as dismissing them all as the same group of barbarian terrorists. Your knowledge of the tribal, ethnic and factional nuances of the lands our Soldiers find themselves in seems limited. Perhaps you should invest some time in studying the vast array of publicly available information about these conflicts before you consider trying to discuss them.
and by the way-- i AM OF the "brown people", grown in a culture mixed of "spanish" conquest, chinese trade for centuries mixed into our culture, a mishmash of "hollywood for 50 years after 400 hundred years *in the convent*" mixed with whatever native cultures there were - all in a context of the vast rich varieties of differences and similarities among asians , and come from a province where for nearly 800 years - islam was already established and many of my own schoolmates and childhood friends in CATHOLIC school were themselves MUSLIMS and eventually became teachers as my mother (a school teacher) encouraged them to be - and sometimes asked her - with our attendance as kids - to be part of their 'wedding ceremonies' to honor our friendships.
do you think i would be so THOUGHTLESS as to NOT try to understand and learn before speaking HERE or ANYWHERE - what the differences might be between KURDS and Afghanis or pakistanis - from Arabs - or sunni or shiite? when i myself grew up KNOWING that , particularly as non-muslims - we had to respect their differences and KNOW that grownup males DO NOT STARE at a muslim man's wife??...
LONG before most americans TODAY became "concerned" with people on a world map most americans can't EVEN PLACE UNLESS they are FORCEd to pay attention because their "loved ones" are DYING "over there" after their own Country's EXPERT , oooooo so expert leaders
decided they were to be invaded and "taught" how to BEHAVE?
Uh...
You are putting stupid statements into another person's mouth so you can attack them.
TEDDY SAID NO SUCH THING!
Are you engaged in a public forum, or arguing with demons in your own head?
Thank you webwalk.
I am limited in my own way -- but I do try to educate myself - not just about current news as they come daily - but always have since I was child because i was brought up to have a hunger for the cultures of other lands . however i express myself - and "mix up" whatever i have gathered over the years - it is really up to people to judge what I 'know' according to their own standards.
as it is - even if in my limited way - PART of my upbringing is knowing SOMETHING about MY fellow asians - whether they are middle easterners, their religious factions (such as my coming from teh philippines has shown me what shiites or sunnis or sufis , etc. are what Haj is , why i grew up seeing mosques in my home province where when one enters, one has to remove one's shoes, why muslims at times "spit" during ramadan (they may NOT swallow ANY food or water at all during the day) ...
maybe that is not enough for some people here....
maybe it is not enough that one of my dearest friends since i was a grown up is a very, very beautiful woman of Persian/french/russian blood - who is Iranian , HIGHLY educated as a mathematician, architect, WESTERN classical pianist and composer and classical persian music, poet of classical persian literature, - and had to wear the Hijjab whenever her Ayatollah in-laws were around - but among ourselves and her friends was the most "western" of women you can find - so full of zest for life and laughter and talking about cultures and creativity ....which gives me a LITTLE bit of idea about why Iranians are WHY they are...
and WHY american ideas about THEM and other middle easterners or , for that matter, other cultures are just about as "accurate" for their so-called "information" and "advancement" as putting a baseball to the foul zone when the intent is to go for the homerun to the right field.
admittedly , even TODAY - i try to learn more, and see what the subtleties are in cultures .
if i present them wrongly - I apologize.
Thanks, for your sharing of your personal history, and all your efforts here.
Your US soldiers lost a contest to a bunch of Vietnamese teenagers.
Your authoritarianism shows once again. Your own toops are worthless on the battlefield as evidenced in Afghanistan. Take away the AIRPower and the Body armor and tanks and the Afghans kick your backsides.
The only time the US soldiers show their mettle is when they are beating up on some third world nation and at the first sign of trouble they gotta call in the flyboys to drop bombs willy nilly on crowds of people.
As to your Military analysts. They know jack shit. As evidenced by all the predictions they made of cakewalks in Iraq and Afghanistan and all the "analysis" they did about the light at the end of the tunnel in Vietnam.
The Australian Pilots that were in Iraq could refuse an order to bomb a target if they felt it would kill Civilians. They did not bomb their targets on many missions. They are "twice" the MEN then those that bomb wedding parties and schoolbuses because they were ordered to do so.
"Your US soldiers lost a contest to a bunch of Vietnamese teenagers."
We did indeed. The most remarkable thing is how gracious they were in welcoming us back. Frankly I don't know why they feel the way they do about Americans , they sure don't feel thaty way about the Chinese, Japanese or French.
"Take away the AIRPower and the Body armor and tanks and the Afghans kick your backsides."
Not hardly my friend. No more than the Viet Namese did. We can kick most anyones ass in the field, like it or not. We kicked the Viet Namames army and the VC in every engagement, big deal. We could take and hold any area we pleased....big deal. You cannopt win there or Iraq or in Afganistan unless the people there want you there to help them.
You confuse winnimng a fight with achieving a goal. If you set a goal that is not achievable as in Viet Nam or Iraq or Afganistan, you are going to lose in the end.
You haven't seen the US once use our total power on anyone since WW2, not in Korea, not even in Viet Nam. You continue to confuse reality with...what was it..."authoritarianism" Its just reality my friend. You may nopt like it, but its the truth.
Easy example....Do you or anyone here think China gives a rats fart about South Korea? Do you or anyone here believe that if our troops were withdrawn (which I favor...STRONGLY) and we said we aren't coming back, we will not be involved in the area in any way, how long do you or anyione here think it would be befiore North Korea visited them? China would not stop them. The UN couldn't do a single thing about them. Thats the truth.
Actually I kind of agree with you about our analysts....even Marine intelligence, its always a day late and a dollar short for the guys in the field.
Yes they predicted the Iraqi army would go under quickly, they did...my sister could have predicted that. The only standing field army that has any chance opposing us is China's. The Russians have nothing much, but they are building.
The characterazation of our guys wanting to drop bombs on civilians, is as untrue and silly as the claims that soldiers are robots, etc. It may suit someones ideology or stereotype, but its simply Horsefeathers.
>>You haven't seen the US once use our total power on anyone since WW2, not in Korea, not even in Viet Nam. You continue to confuse reality with...what was it..."authoritarianism" Its just reality my friend. You may nopt like it, but its the truth.
>>The characterazation of our guys wanting to drop bombs on civilians, is as untrue and silly as the claims that soldiers are robots, etc. It may suit someones ideology or stereotype, but its simply Horsefeathers
You have not used your TOTAL power? What the heck is that supposed to mean. You were "holding back" out of concern for Civilians?
Is that why Cambodia had more bombs dropped on it then you dropped on the nazis in all of ww11? You dropped 2.7 MILLION tons of Bombs on Cambodia and that alone was more then the total tonnage dropped on Germany AND Japan in WW11. Of course those countries could fight back something Cambodia could not. Cambodia was not even in the war!
You dropped 3/4 's of a MILLION tons of bombs on North Vietnam during rolling thunder and that as holding back because "you do not like bombing Civilians?" North Vietnam is a heck of a lot smaller then nazi Occupied Europe yet you seemed to find targets a pelnty to saturate with bombs. What the heck did you THINk you were bombing if not PEOPLE?
You dropped ATOMIC bombs on Cities filled with Civilians but because you really did not LIKE doing it...it somehow shows some restraint?
You dropped Agent Orange over half of Vietnam....Chemical Warfare on a scale never seen and "Unlike in ww11" that was HOLDING back?
I watched videos of your FLYBOYS in Gulf War one. They were interviewing them after they had slaughtered tens of thousands of fleeing Iraqis on the Highway of death.
They were laughing and JOKING about it. They were describing in detail how the iraqis were scurrying around like Chickens with their heads cut off trying to escape the bombs...they seemed to be having a jolly good time.
You worship Guns violence and death. You advocate killing women and children if it means saving the lives of "American Soldiers". THAt SIR IS your IDEOLOGY but please stop trying to claim it somehow shows "honor" or "caring" or a compassion .
All Americans owe Lt. Choi our thanks for helping us rescind don't ask, don't tell".
There is one excellent thing about DADT: Any soldier tired of multiple deployments and putting himself "in harm's way" for the lies of Republicans can say, "Hey, Colonel, sir, I'm gay. Where's my ticket home?"
Sadly, this issue clarifies the President's personal and political cowardice more than it does Obama's obeisance to Wall Street. The issue of gays in the military has little if any economic significance to the financial overlords.
q
This is also the truth. Sadly the country has more urgent problems, this and other social needs will be put on the back burner. And I have to agree with your definition of Obama at this point.
Sioux Rose
HENRY: Since the military has a lot of money these days, I wonder if YOU are paid to post pro-military comments on common dreams. You sure are "here" a lot. I know I sometimes spend a few hours and that's because I have the luxury of being a freelance writer. But there are persons, particularly yourself, who post day in and out, over and over, and therefore they're obviously not working any routine job hours. Yet they have bills to pay. And even if you're retired, could you be moonlighting for extra pay? Is that why you never fail to salute while in the forum? Bet you're even wearing your uniform?
SR,
i try to hesitate before suspecting any particular poster of being a paid shill.
i know (as you point out regarding the military) that there is a lot of money available to powerful organizations who indeed pay people to post on public internet sites... and there simply must be paid people participating in Common Dreams threads.
But i hesitate to publicly raise doubts about specific posters, because we sure could spend a lot of energy going back and forth about who suspects whom of being a paid shill.
Kind of like being at an organizing meeting for a protest action, looking around the room, wondering "Who's the Fed?" Not a ridiculous question, but also in many ways counterproductive to start raising. Infiltrators even raise doubts in the group about who might be infiltrators, to promote a breakdown of trust.
Not that CD is a group organizing political action. And here i go joining in.
Maybe it is possible to have a useful discussion of the fact that some posters come here to covertly disrupt the community. But i have doubts about how we could do that.
Sioux Rose
WEBWALK: I agree with your points, and they are well-made. This subject and a certain party's canned responses bug me. It's like a door so tightly closed, that even when dynamite is applied the hinges remain ONLY true to the fixed pivot they were originally cast into. The thing will not budge! (I'm tired tonight, if the metaphor doesn't work, I apologize. Generally I try to be a diplomat in this forum, so I don't mind being corrected if I have stepped out of bounds, presumably the basis for that assessment isn't just someone's authoritarian credo being projected my way. I don't "get" that about you at all. So I will take your suggestion to heart.)
Sioux,
It's late but, if you get this...
Thanks for your words. i do not always take as much care as i could to be intentional with the way i come across. It is actually a bit easier for me in this forum to take the care i should with my communication, since i have a chance to look at what i wrote and edit it. i still slip sometimes...
i totally agree about "a certain party's canned responses", if you see what i wrote to him farther down the thread...
Good night,
webster