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Stop Bombing Us: Osama Isn’t Here, Says Pakistan
Osama bin Laden and the top Al-Qaeda leadership are not in Pakistan, making US missile attacks against them futile, according to the country's interior minister.
(The Times)
"If Osama was in Pakistan we would know, with all the thousands of troops we
have sent into the tribal areas in recent months," Rehman Malik told The
Sunday Times. "If he and all these four or five top people were in our area
they would have been caught, the way we are searching."
He added: "According to our information Osama is in Afghanistan, probably Kunar, as most of the activities against Pakistan are being directed from Kunar."
Washington does not directly acknowledge its missile attacks on Pakistani territory by unmanned drone aircraft but Pakistani officials say the US has carried out more than 40 attacks inside its borders in the past 10 months, killing hundreds of people.
CIA officials claim these attacks have been highly effective in disrupting Al-Qaeda's ability to operate. However, Malik insists they are a waste of time because the Al-Qaeda leadership is on the other side of the border in eastern Afghanistan."They're getting mid-level people not big fish," he said. "And they are counterproductive because they are killing civilians and turning locals against our government. We try to win people's hearts, then one drone attack drives them away. One attack alone last week killed 50 people."
US officials in Islamabad say Pakistan's government is being disingenuous, claiming to oppose the drone attacks to win domestic support, while being quite happy to benefit from them.
On Friday two missiles fired from a drone destroyed a communications centre in South Waziristan that belonged to Baitullah Mehsud, the leader of the Pakistani Taliban responsible for a recent string of suicide attacks in Pakistan.
Pakistan's military admits it has been helped by intelligence from US surveillance flights over the tribal areas as well as the mountain region of Swat, where thousands of troops have been battling against another Taliban group which had taken over the area, forcing more than 2m people to flee.
Yesterday, the government told the refugees that it had cleared Taliban forces from most of Swat and they should return home.
Most refugees are reluctant, worried about continued hostilities and lack of food after fighting disrupted the harvest. Abdullah Yusufzai, a medical student who returned to the main city of Mingo-ra, said: "There is a real shortage of food and fighting is ongoing in the hills and the army is still blowing up houses of suspected militants."
The army has not yet caught the leaders of the Swat Taliban though the interior minister claims that the main leader, Maulana Fazlullah, has been hit twice and is badly wounded. "I'm quite confident we'll get them," he said.
"Not only have we killed most of them but we've also destroyed their hideouts and arms depots," he added. "We discovered long, wide tunnels they were using for weapons."
According to Malik, the families of the militant leaders had been discovered hiding in the refugee camps. Fazlullah's family was found in a camp in Haripur and taken into custody.
Troops will remain in Swat to prevent the Taliban from returning but the army's main focus is switching to the tribal areas of Waziristan, home to one of the area's fiercest tribes. South Waziristan is the headquarters of Mehsud, and the north is also a base of Jalaluddin Haqqani, an Afghan warlord with close links to Al-Qaeda believed to be responsible for the capture of an American soldier last week.
"Wherever these militants are, we'll get them out," said Malik. "The decision of the government is very firm - no mercy, no negotiation. They must surrender or die."
For all Washington's talk of an "AfPak strategy", he said, Pakistan's efforts to take on the Taliban their side of the border are being hampered by the failure of American and British troops in Afghanistan to monitor their side.
"Two years ago we were being criticised by the West for our ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence agency] helping the Taliban cross into Afghanistan," he said. "We have stopped the border crossing. Now we're finding the same situation - they're coming from the other side, bringing arms and fighters from Helmand into Baluchistan and into Waziristan. Should we say it's Afghan or western intelligence helping them?"
He argued that Nato troops in Afghanistan should have first sealed the border before stepping up the fighting. "If we can't seal it totally we should seal it as much as possible," he said. "If we can't have a wall, at least let's put up barbed wire."
"They should replicate what we've done," he added. "We have 1,000 checkpoints on our side - they have only 100, of which only 60 are working. It makes no sense to both be fighting either side of the border without stopping the militants crossing."
Karachi target
Political leaders have warned that Baitullah Mehsud, Pakistan's Taliban commander, is exploiting the political and refugee crisis to destabilise Karachi, the largest city in the country, writes Nicola Smith.
Thousands of Pashtun refugees loyal to Mehsud have fled to Karachi in the past few months to escape fighting in the northwest. More are expected to arrive from South Waziristan, on the border with Afghanistan.
This has led to fears that Pakistan's commercial capital, home to the banking industry and stock exchange, is becoming "Talibanised".
Syed Mustafa Kamal, mayor of Karachi, warned that Taliban insurgents are using their refugee status to establish strongholds.
Explaining that remittances were funding Taliban fighters, he said: "Karachi has become the revenue engine for the Taliban. If our enemies hit Karachi, then Pakistan's stability will be in question. Karachi is the fuel for Pakistan's economy."
The mayor claimed the city had 3,000 madrasahs (religious schools), which were closed to local students, and that the Taliban had begun to threaten women in short sleeves. Police said militants planned a terrorist strike.
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31 Comments so far
Show All"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006
QUESTION: "Mr President, in your speeches, you rarely mention Osama Bin Laden. Why is that?"
GEORGE BUSH JR: "I don't know where he is. I just don't spend that much time on him
9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
—FBI agent Rex Tomb, June 6, 2006
"The goal has never been to get Bin Laden."
—General Richard Myers, chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff
Benazir Bhutto said Osama bin Laden was dead in an in terview with David Frost in Nov '07....a month after this interview so is she.....
~ Some people live their whole lives without ever waking up ~
~ and that's why you gotta keep throwing out life lines Drowning Man. Things get lost in the memory hole really fast nowadays. Bullet point pieces of argument like you throw out here are what's needed...both to help "wake up" as well as to stay afloat...hopefully to reach shore once in awhile...once in awhile a grateful beam of wood.
Of all the things I know about Osama bin Laden, all at a great remove and doubtless many of them untrue, there isn't one of them that leads me to believe he is (more likely was) stupid. If he organized 9/11 he was sufficiently smart to know what would happen next, which is what did happen next: it would give the US an excuse for, effectively, an all out war on Muslims in the M/E, and anywhere else by extension.
Did he do it? I honestly don't know. But I do know which countries benefited most.
Don't believe anyone. Everyone lies.
Remember the Bin Ladens and Papa Bush were/are(?) partners in the Carsyle (sp)Group.
Thank you, Drowning Man (July 12th, 2009 11:45 am), for these necessary reminders!!
Don't forget this classic...
"I don't know where bin Laden is, and I don't care. He's not our priority anymore." -George W. Bush, October, 2002.
Bombing countries.....it is just what we (the US military) DO.....and how they do it so well!!!!!!!!!!!! Without impunity and without any objections from countries around the world!!! So nice to have quiet bystanders like the citizens and governments in the over 137 plus countries where we have military bases who don't get in our way!!!
It was never about Osama in the first place....we just needed SOME kind of excuse to gear up our military and continue the expansion process that has been going on since the Spanish-American War!!! ONWARD AND UPWARD!!!!
With all the help of satellite surveillance and drones we still can only see a fraction of whats going on on the ground.
Go to Google Earth and explore and you soon realize how much you DON'T see.
Somehow, someday History will prove that Bush, Cheney, Jeb Bush, Karl Rove Condelizza, and several others in the Bush nazi regime was a lot more involved in 9/11 than Osama was. Perhaps they should look on the Bush ranch.
Jarhead I go th... July 12th, 2009 12:17 pm........... Basically, it has already proved this.............6 years of research and 400 footnotes.....
http:/www.israelshamir.net/Contributors/
Collateral_Damage_911.pdf
Coming in the fall of 2001...
**** 9/11 THE MUSICAL ****
Orchestrated by Dick Cheney and his PNAC Band
Featuring the hit song "Dancing Around the Investigation" by George W and his Pet Goat.
With Master Illusionist Rudy Giuliani making all of the evidence disappear before your very eyes.
And introducing Osama bin Laden as Emanuel Goldstein.
Produced in cooperation with CIA Associates
All (Constitutional) American Rights reserved.
Benazir Bhutto, before being assassinated made the Statement on a Televison Broadcast that Osama Bin Laden was dead, and had been dead for several years.
It's nearly 2 years after the fact, so why did I just now hear about this? I googled the interview with Frost and saw an excerpt. And what was up with Frost's lack of response? Why wouldn't he say, "Excuse me, did you mispeak-- or did you just say that Bin Laden was murdered?"
And, as usual, the MSM did nothing to pick up the story.
It worse then the MSM failing to report this.
The BBC carried two versions of the story. The first the clip you likely saw with her mentioning the death of Bin Laden.
That was the live version on on their website a short while.
They then EDITED that version and removed the reference to Bin Laden.
After complaints they reinstated the original. The man she refers to Omar Sheikh was arrested in February of 2002 suggesting that if she spoke correctly and Bin Laden was in fact killed by this man it happened BEFORE that.
That is before all those videos of him cropping up. Omar Sheikh was charged with the muder of Daniel Pearl.
Mushareff made a public claim that Omar Shiekh was a member of MI6.
Those who sugest this all conspiracy theory stuff claim that Ms Bhutto misspoke and was actually speaking about Daniel Perl. If you watch the interview you can see she well spoken and I doubt highly would make such a notable mistake.
Why seal the border?
The USA wants the war to go on forever, justifies totalitarianism domesticly and imperialism internationally, maybe we can blame Iran for something.
The USA still has alot of disgruntled Pashtuns to slaughter.
Americans NEED a 'boogy-man', and have from the beginning.
That so many would believe that 'Jesus was betrayed by Judas for thirty pieces of silver' and that Bin Laden could still be 'around' with $50 million on his head is such an absurdity as to be in the same ranks as the Santa Claus myth.
A jolly fat 'white guy' riding around in a sleigh pulled by flying Reindeer (why do you think they call them 'reindeer')giving stuff away after sliding down a Chimney, not to mention that 'four point landing on the roof'. Now in just a few months from now there will be millions of children who 'really really believe' that story---but in just a few years will laugh at the concept.
All of those who believe in Bind Laden however are 'adults'--and many of them are in powerful positions.
That alone should scare the hell out of anyone with a rational mind--but to consider the fact that the 'believers in Santa' stop believing because they LEARN the truth----and those who 'believe' in Bin Laden DO NOT WANT TO LEARN THE TRUTH------that is 'really really really scary' ---
Good Luck America, you really need it.
Wakey wakey!! Boom
If the media focused their attention every night on showing the opulent lifestyles of the DoD Arms Dealers and Military Contractors; then we would quickly "Chapter 13" the business of war.
The trillion dollar war doesn't just pay for drone planes and stinger missiles. It buys dude ranches and planes and boats - lots of cowboy toys.
Sorry to burst our American bubble...
Pakistan has immensely larger problems than where Osama sleeps. Here is one that seems to be right out of a sequel for "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein:
ISLAMABAD: As the nation frets about the electricity tariff being increased by 17.5% and the prime minister attempts placating the restive masses with a promise of no-hike-till-loadshedding-ends promise, reality is that if the World Bank (WB) gets its way then the tariff hike will be nearly twice as much at 31 per cent.
And while the parleys continue between WB and the Pakistani delegation on the exact tariff increase, the track record tends to show that ultimately it’s the IMF and the WB which tend to get their way. Officially, the issue is expected to be sorted out by coming Wednesday, it was learnt.
After resolving this issue of exact hike of power tariff along with timeframe between Pakistan and the WB, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) will forward request to its Executive Board for release of next tranche worth $840 million to Islamabad. In case both Pakistan’s economic managers and WB remain unable to sort out their differences then IMF’s next tranche might be delayed, which otherwise is due by end of the ongoing month.
The IMF has agreed to allow Islamabad to take a budgetary hit for continuation of power tariff subsidy and its cost will be borne by cutting down Public Sector Development Programme (PSDP) in the range of Rs50 billion during the current fiscal year, it is learnt.
Placating the restive masses! We have seen what that meant in Latin America and the Soviet Union. It means mass murder.
When I finished "The Shock Doctrine" I concluded that Cubans are among the luckiest people on earth as long as their government does not deal with the IMF and WB scoundrels.
One more excuse out the window.
And when the much celebrated Sir David Frost in the interview with Benazir Bhutto realized what his guest just had said, he pretended not to have heard it, because he understood that with those words she had signed her death sentence. That is the perfectly controlled world we live in, those who speak unpleasant truths suddenly die from an assault or a plane crash.
Deepa
How about Cuba bombing Miami, because Luis Posada Carriles, who was involved in the bombing of a Cubana Airlines Flight 455 on October 6, 1976 killing 73 people on board, lives there? Among the killed were six young Guyanese students on their way to Cuba to study medicine and the entire Cuban Olympic fencing team.
If indiscreminate bombing of civilian areas by the US is justified, then why not bombing of Miami by Cuba for harboring a terrorist??
Barack, Hillary, Richard! Here's an idea you can use! Just
blow up everybody in the world! You'll be sure to get the evil persons!!!
Probably not a bad idea. The world would heave a sigh of relief.
The Bush regime started the mess in the first place, and bin Laden was no doubt captured a long time ago, just like Saddam. Saddam popped up just to boost Bush rateing, and Laden popped up now and then, just to keep us in fear. Now it's just an excuse by Obama to destroy Pakistan that the Bush generals had intended to do, since they still run the show. When one criticizes Obama, so are they Bush.
Osama who?
If the fall of the entire Soviet Union didn't slow the violence that had been called "the Cold War," what can the presence of one or another admittedly clever zealot matter?
The US hires by many times over the largest body of munitions, strategical and tactical experts in the world. What are the odds that they do not know that tossing bombs around Pakistan by remote control is not an efficient way to kill one man of indeterminate locale?
Nope, the drones are designed to kill civilians, to produce what's called collateral damage.
A major problem of logistics in population control is that when one puts soldiers in another country, many come to realize that the population is human. Through the racism emerges compassion, consciousness of guilt, recognition and betrayal by one's leaders.
That has very much less chance of happening if everything they kill comes to them onscreen.
Somewhere someone is going over media depictions of the kills and writing up analyses of the effects of munitions deployment.
I sympathise or empathise with the Pakistani people, if empathy is possible; given I've never lived through what they're being put through with the corruption of their government much "thanks" to the U.S. government and its ruling "elites", and now the war on many of them. Nope, I can't say I've lived through such conditions; but can certainly sympathise.
And it's great that their interior minister is making this demand or plea, but I (hate to do so, but nevertheless) believe that it will unfortunately be treated as is often the case, which is ignored; by the ruling "elites" of the government of the USA, that is. Making me perhaps only more certain that his plea will be treated with disregard is as Major Doug Rokke says in his presentation or speech a little further below and in which he explains a number of things that we need to or certainly should realise about these wars; Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Iraq is not particularly or clearly related to these other two wars, but ..., well, I'll be referring to it anyway in this post; a little further below.
The war on Afghanistan is for the oil pipeline, albeit I'd also add that it's for expanding the empire of the West; and the pipeline was never to end in Afghanistan, but is (in terms of the plans of the ruling "elites" of the government of the USA) to be constructed all the way to Pakistan, where the USA's or the West's oil cies will be able to ship the oil from. And the US wants to make sure to control, so dominate, Pakistan, as well as Afghanistan; not only the latter.
Given such hellbent intent, objectives, to begin with, I would love to see the US stop all of these criminal wars, that is, one-sided wars, (of aggression - as all one-sided wars always are) but am not expecting that there'll be any truly good will among the ruling "elites" of the government of the USA.
Anyway, the following is the link to Major Rokke's speech or presentation. It's very good, he's a funny man, and he touches upon ... at least several important points.
"9-11.. Hello!: Major Doug Rokke" (10:35), ranxer, Aug 19 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGVSHGWZ3JM
Iraq? What does he say about Iraq? He says a few, or more, important things on this topic, alone. For one thing, this war is not really because of the Bush administration. The planning for it began in 1995 during the Clinton administration.
What?! I had that reaction to his words, until he explained what happened during summer, June I think, 2001. General Tommy Franks then went to Bush to ask him to ("pretty please? would you do this for me, please?") launch the war on Iraq, and Bush refused, not being ready to do this, ... yet. Okay, good. So Bush delayed, giving Iraqis nearly a couple of more years of non-massacre or non-armageddon, ... BUT, CENTCOM was already positioned in the Middle East and ready to commence the launch of the war, evidently being very, very anxious to do so.
Similarly, the war on Afghanistan isn't really due to the Bush administration; it was planned during the Clinton administration the moment the Taliban backed out of the pipeline negotiations in 1998. Everyone knows about it, right? It's the pipeline for Unocal, primarily anyway.
Lastly, and just as a side note, he, Major Rokke, agrees with the views of Lt Col. Robert Bowman, retired Major General Albert Stubblebine, and a fair or good number of other people who have qualifications for this sort of analysis; and they have convinced me that they have to be right. What's this about? Readers might wonder what this is about.
Okay, let me put it to you this way.
NO [airplane] hit the Pentagon on 9-11! Or certainly not AA 77, certainly no large airplane, anyway. An aircraft hit the Pentagon, but definitely not an airplane, or not a large one, and it'd have be a considerably [wingless] craft.
These people clearly know what they're talking about, and I haven't heard of wingless airplanes; none that could be flown without wings, anyway.
I don't recall if I read what Lt Col Bowman's view is on the WTC Towers, but Doug Rokke and Albert Stubblebine both agree with many other people, including myself, which is that the towers didn't come down because of the airplanes that were flown into them. Another way of describing what happened is called [demolition]. And many, many people believe that this is what happened, or, iow, what was done; with explosives placed inside the towers, which obviously would have had to be done sufficiently in advance and which, in turn, means ..., I think you know or can discern what it means. Many architects, engineers, physicists, firefighters (NYFD), especially among the NYFD members who served as first-responders, and that, I suppose, would also be true with NYPD who were present and heard the explosions occurring in the towers far below where the airplanes hit, or saw flashes similarly below the strike points far above. Etc. There are many people who share in this view.
But we would not know many, if any, of these things if we paid too much attention to getting information from msm corporate "news" media.
Lamb sez: "Washington does not directly acknowledge its missile attacks on Pakistani territory by unmanned drone aircraft ..."
Next paragraph begins: "CIA officials claim these attacks have been highly effective in disrupting Al-Qaeda's ability to operate."
***
So the U.S. will not acknowledge the attacks, but sez they are highly effective? I miss the days when propaganda required some creativity.
People should have caught onto the Bush family of corruption long ago. Prescot Bush was Hitlers banker, George Sr. Was and is tied up heavily with the Bin Laden family, George Jr. is to stupid to be tied up with anything except his dope.
... and now Obama is continuing their legacy of Evil, Deceit and Deception.
Obama is a WAR Criminal - He is carrying out and continuing the crimes of the Bush War Crime Family.
It is obvious they are not bombing Pakistan in search of Osama Bin Laden, but have ulterior motives.
END These WARS - Support Our Troops By Bringing them ALL Home - NOW!
Ron Paul was right, where have you been?!
Ron Paul for President 2012
One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America