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TechnoratiNEW YORK - The George W. Bush administration's plan to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to rescue giant Wall Street firms from their current financial meltdown has unleashed a spontaneous wave of protests across the United States.
![[Protesters gather Sep. 24 in Seattle against Sen. John McCain and the Wall St. meltdown. ]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/protest_bailout_0926.jpg "protest_bailout_0926.jpg")
Protesters said they want the Congress to protect millions of
U.S. citizens who are on the verge of losing their homes due to bad
lending practices of creditors instead of doling out public money to
big investment firms responsible for ruining the economy.
"People are up in arms about this," Matt Holland of the TrueMajority.org, an advocacy group comprising 700,000 members that played a major role in organising the protests, told IPS. "Our members are livid. They're hitting the streets."
According to the group, thousands of people in more than 190 cities and towns across the country took part in demonstrations against the corporate bailout bill proposed by U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson last Friday.
The four-page draft bill, which is currently under discussion on Capitol Hill, did not initially require any legal and financial measures to protect homeowners from possible foreclosures, nor did it put any limits on the salaries of the corporate executives -- although legislators say that has since been amended.
On Thursday, Democratic and Republican lawmakers declared they were close to reaching a deal on a modified version of the bill, but still there was no indication if it would pass the Senate and the House.
"While many are focused on providing relief to the Wall Street, millions of homeowners are at risk of being left behind," said Janet Murgula, president of the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), the nation's largest Hispanic civil rights group.
To Murgula, "it is irresponsible public policy to ask taxpayers to foot the bill for a Wall Street rescue package while simultaneously denying them a sustainable response to the devastation the rising foreclosures rate is having throughout the country."
Independent presidential candidate and populist consumer advocate Ralph Nader agrees.
"The public outrage out there is really enormous," he said in an interview with the left-wing television programme Democracy Now!, calling the Bush proposal "a double standard between the guys at the top and the people who are going to have to pay the bills."
But President Bush does not think there is anything thing wrong with his proposal.
"I understand there's a lot of nervousness, and -- but the economy is growing, productivity is high, trade's up," he said in a televised speech Wednesday. "People are working. It's not as good as we would like, but -- and to the extent that we find weakness, we'll move."
To Nader, there is no logic in Bush's remarks. "I mean, look at all his statements: this could do this, this would do that, farms failing, small business, tada, tada," he said. "The first question we have to ask as citizens is: why is there a need for a bailout?
"If there is a need for a bailout, why 700 billion dollars?" he asked. "If there is a need for a bailout, what kind of bailout? Taxpayer equity? So the taxpayer can recover if these companies make a profit, they can recover surplus."
On Thursday, at the invitation of President Bush, both presidential hopefuls Barack Obama and John McCain attended a meeting at the White House to discuss the current financial crisis facing the Wall Street. However, it remains unclear to what extent they agreed on the Paulson bill.
Latest reports from Hill suggest that members of the both political parties on the legislative committee on banking agreed to put limits on the pay of corporate executives, but there was no news about protection for vulnerable low-income homeowners.
While proposals continue to evolve and be debated, according to NCLR, a pro-homeowner package must include a model for the broad, systematic modification of failing mortgages, which is the best way to keep working families in their homes.
"Unless we respond to the needs of millions of struggling homeowners," said NCLR's Murgula, "a rising inventory of foreclosed homes will continue to overload the market, pushing housing prices down even further."
94 Comments so far
Show AllNader leads!
Obama can't even follow.
Barack Obama was for single payer before he came out against it.
It is a curious thing that the NY times is reporting gasoline shortages in North Carolina, Georgia, and Tennessee right now. People are fighting with one another at the pumps when gas is delivered and the new delivery is sold out within hours. Makes one wonder what the government has up their sleeve and if this is just the beginning. Also, the comment that includes the Army Times article about the "homeland tour" that is beginning Oct. 1, is a very relevant "heads up" at this point with the end nearing for the regime in power. We need to stand up as Americans ("these Americans" as G.W.B. referred to us on Wed night) and not allow the bullies to intimidate us or scare us into a socialized dictatorship. This government is supposed to be working for us, the people of the United States of America. Could be, that this "bailout" has been in the making from the beginning of GW's first private meeting with the major big businesses back in 2001. One thing is for sure, the American people need to stand up and take back our control by making our voices united, very loud, and sealed with a vote. One vote or one voice gains power when they are all added together.
Don't you mean fascism not socialized dictatorship?
Sarah Palin told Katie Couric this bailout is about job creation (tee hee)-- keep talking, Sarah. Sarah Palin is the gift that keeps on giving. Can't wait until Joe Biden rips her to shreds. Of course the Rethuglicans will whine that it's all "sexism" on Joe's part.
They can come up with any acronym they wish, “TARP” , I believe they are calling it now. But, this a B-A-I-L-O-U-T.
They created this debacle with their greed and profited quit well from over the last ten years. The financial industry pushed the Clinton administration hard for the repeal of Glass/Stegall, telling Clinton that what happened in 1929 could not happen again. And yet, here we are!
They knew better, but in the end figured they could scream “fire” and the taxpayer would get stuck with the bills.
Huge profits and huge bonuses with which allowed them lifestyle in which they could look down their noses at the working class.
Now they piper as come due from their greed and they want that very same working class to bale them out,while the slither away to one their 7 homes or perhaps their yacht with their million dollar compensation packages. As Jack Welch former head of GE once put it when someone once questioned his pay,“HELL I’M WORTH IT".That about sums all of wallsteets thinking! We the working class work our tails off creating the wealth which they play with.
The middleclass as been getting put them for the last 30 years. Out sourcing of their jobs, stagnant wages when adjusted for inflation, immigrants taken their jobs because they will work for pennies on the depleted dollar. And now, being asked to bailout the very same people who have been selling them out!
Feel like you have been getting screwed lately,well bend over again because the big one is about to come.
From Professor Nouriel Roubini - "The Treasury plan (even in its current version agreed with Congress) is very poorly conceived and does not contain many of the key elements of a sound and efficient and fair rescue plan. ... It is a disgrace that no professional economist was consulted by Congress or invited to present his/her views at the Congressional hearings on the Treasury rescue plan.
Specifically, the Treasury plan does not formally provide senior preferred shares for the government in exchange for the government purchase of the toxic/illiquid assets of the financial institutions; so this rescue plan is a huge and massive bailout of the shareholders and the unsecured creditors of the firms; with $700 billion of taxpayer money the pockets of reckless bankers and investors have been made fatter under the fake argument that bailing out Wall Street was necessary to rescue Main Street from a severe recession. Instead, the restoration of the financial health of distressed financial firms could have been achieved with a cheaper and better use of public money.
Moreover, the plan does not address the need to recapitalize badly undercapitalized financial institutions: this could have been achieved via public injections of preferred shares into these firms; needed matching injections of Tier 1 capital by current shareholders to make sure that such shareholders take first tier loss in the presence of public recapitalization; suspension of dividends payments; conversion of some of the unsecured debt into equity (a debt for equity swap).
The plan also does not explicitly include an HOLC-style program to reduce across the board the debt burden of the distressed household sector; without such a component the debt overhang of the household sector will continue to depress consumption spending and will exacerbate the current economic recession.
Thus, the Treasury plan is a disgrace: a bailout of reckless bankers, lenders and investors that provides little direct debt relief to borrowers and financially stressed households and that will come at a very high cost to the US taxpayer. And the plan does nothing to resolve the severe stress in money markets and interbank markets that are now close to a systemic meltdown."
If anyone REALLY wants to see how we got in this mess I recommend this video...its concise...and its accurate...I checked the links it recommends
Its called burning down the house...(got a good soundtrack too)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o
That the Community Reinvestment Act, started under Carter, contributed to the sub-prime lending problem is undeniably true. And left at that, no real problem.
But deregulation of our markets caused this problem. Reagan really added to it, Glass-Stegall's removal under Clinton actually allowed these investment banks to create the mortgage mess, but there is plenty of blame to go around, starting with Carter right up top the present. Much of it laid to Bush simply because they depressed government oversight.
Add the sheer greed of Wall Street and others in the financial community to the above and this is what we get.
Reregulation ASAP is certainly dictated. Unfettered markets are not free markets.
We can agree then that this disaster is a bipartisan effort, can we not? Then we must take this one step further and refuse to vote for either culpable party, n'est ce pas?
Can I assume that you'lle be voting Libertarian ?
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Well, you were right about one thing at any rate, the soundtrack was terrific. Going in I suspected, considering the source, that this would be a slick, slanted and suspect bit of propaganda. I was not disappointed.
How anyone with a functioning brain can attempt to place the blame for this crisis on one man, or one party, is mindboggling. The simple truth, you tiresome propagandist for the status quo, is that Reagan began this slide with his mantra of deregulation and removing of all controls from so-called "free enterprise", and every administration that followed contributed a bit more to an increasingly slippery slope. Both parties, every President since Ronnie, must share in culpability, as should the American consumer who relished easy credit and greedy acquisitions.
The solution to this current debacle will not be found by those without consciences who seek to make political hay from an impending depression. No, Wolfie old fascist, the solution will be in the reregulation of our financial system, in the reestablishing of our governments real responsibilities to our electorate, monitoring our foods, our imports, our financial dealings, our government contracts and sweeping out those who oppose such...
Nice try though.....just really, truly reprehensible.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
It is well Documented about Chris Dodd, Chuckie Schumer and Barney Frank...
But you aren't going to read about it in the papers or see it on MSLSD...
They seem to be more interested in covering up for the Democrats than reporting
is there something specifically inaccurate that you take issue with?....
I agee with you that NOBODY gave the public any warning on this...from either Party...but I have checked out the causes of this...and its all true
Is reading comprehension really, truly THAT difficult? I noted that the problem is the system, and there is much blame to go around. You however seek to shunt the GOP's share of the blame over to the Democrats. This does nothing to be helpful, wolfman, and actually obfuscates and delays any possible solutions.
Your claim to have checked out the causes rings hollow when neither Reagan, Bush 41 or Bush 43 comes up in your stuff. I see that your buddy, more civilised buddy but no less agendised, goes back to Carter. Blame individuals all you like, but until we pin the blame where it belongs, on a deregulated financial industry and a defanged government no solution, no real progress will be made. Perhaps, my neoconservative poster, this is exactly what you seek?
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Good point about considering the source first.
snydly
The political spectrum is not a line with two ends, but a broken circle with the ends closer to each other than to the "middle". Purple could get 60% of the votes in this country.
The political spectrum is not a line with two ends, but a broken circle with the ends closer to each other than to the "middle". Purple could get 60% of the votes in this country.
Will it be this year?? And how will we find out that Ralph, Ron and Dennis have proposed a triumvirate Presidency??
I agree with your view of the political spectrum. Here's a graphic I created that reflects that image: http://dave.eriqat.name/images/misc/Political_Spectrum.png .
Dave
http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/
During the debate McCain was rude and condescending and wouldn't look at Obama or acknowledge him. He smirked, laughed inappropriately, was petulant, scowled, and was generally unpleasant and unpresidential. Typical arrogant, disrespectful Republican. It was probably caused by racism on McCain's part.
Obama on the other hand was courteous and respectful. Sometimes I wonder why Democrats are so nice to the Republicans. Bullies don't understand civilness and manners and interpret it as weakness. I guess I'm just not a saint. I probably wouldn't be able to deal with the pricks. Obama was presidential and McCain definitely was not.
Dweedle Dee vs Dweedle Dumb. Just watched the crappy and boring "debate". Obama couldn't even best an almost senile, dim-witted, cipher-headed, bad-tempered, senior citizen. After about an hour I told my daughter she could change the channel and I turned my computer on. Is that the best Democrats can do against the discredited Pugs?
The way to stop it is to have protests in which people say they will vote out anyone who supports the bailout. This is an election year and threatening pols with not getting re-elected would turn them against the bailout very quickly.
The “protesters” would flip the bail-out for Wall Street into a bail-out for “home owners?"
Phooy!
The Wall Streeters paid themselves in US dollars for trading worthless mortgages on the world market and for trading other worthless paper amongst themselves, They took those US dollars and purchased houses, boats, and stocks and bonds in legitimate businesses.
Track them down. Take back the houses, boats, the legitimate stocks and bonds, and cash. Use part of the proceeds to indict, convict and jail the Wall Streeters. Divide the remainder of the stocks, bonds and cash amongst legitimate holders of stocks, bonds and cash. Use a rational plan to distribute it the stocks and bonds to any and all of the parties who invested hard-earned, real money into retirement funds or other legitimate investment programs. Distribute the cash to health care or other legitimate social programs. Perfect? No.
Let the worthless-paper schemes crash. They were not benefitting anyone but their Wall Street inventors. Anyone else who participated in the funny-money schemes did so at their own risk, and deserves to lose.
I would love to own a home. But I cannot legitimately afford to do so. I was down-sized and out a long time ago. And although I was on the cusp of being able to re-afford a home, I made a conscious decision to not participate in any of the something-for-nothing games in the housing market.
And so, for those who are now losing their jobs, or who cannot otherwise afford to pay up on some housing scheme that they fell into – T. S. ! Welcome to the club.
Forget about bailouts. If you have no other way to make it, demand a job prosecuting and otherwise policing the Wall Street crooks that put you into your present position. Consider it to be a cutting-edge career in "the new economy."
When the Venture Capitalists got taken for a ride during the dot con boom they had a trick called "Claw Back" that when they had to come clean up the mess they did exactly what you said, claw back ALL assets etc that the folks responsible paid themselves in salaries, perks, golden parachutes, etc.
Then if the mortgages are held to the rate that they were originally made at, those with jobs anyway, could pay that rate as that is what they planned. Then people stay in their homes, so they can continue to hold down the job, the neighborhood does not nosedive in costs and quality of life, and the homes get paid off at the face value of the mortgage rather than a lot less.
The only folks hurt by this are the top one percenters who still will have the majority of the wealth in the country, just not such a big majority.
A seperate issue is the Criminal behavior of the entire Gang Of Pirates who have used the Bush years especially to loot the entire civilization. Here we need a real HUAC hearings about the real conspiricy, front groups, astroturf, and other subversive activities to destroy America. In this case the RICO statutes need to be enforced incarcerating and confiscating any profits gained by means of the corrupt organization.
If actually accomplished the National Debt would all but disappear, and actual productivity would nearly explode released from the burden of subsidizing the Pirates.
RICO could do what you want.
Joe
snydly
great post and ideas. I sent this to some people, too:
Here are a few things to consider: Put a low, fair and fixed rate re-fi on toxic commercial loans. Cap CEO and exec pay at top GS level until they are off the bailout. Require CEO and board to certify that their pre-bailout actions were legal. Require that corporation comply w/ all federal regs on labor, environment, equal pay for women, etc. Prohibit a bailed-out corporation from going off-shore or being acquired by a foreign entity until bailout repaid. Before bailout can proceed, recover 75% of CEO and board pay, bonuses and option profit from the point they started issuing the bad credit.
We see by now that this is just a going away gift to the US creditors, China and Saud et al, so that they could acquire our assets clear of debt and at pennies on the dollar, in order for them to keep funding our consumption.
Wall Street Lane
It’s a win win game down on Wall St lane
They win on the ups They win on the downs
We take the risks they take the plunder
They profit when the Dow ticks up
They profit when the Dow ticks down
It’s a win win game down on wall st lane
Their wins get expanded when the bubble bursts
They are the bubble baron banksters and they get there first
So won’t you please blow bubble baron blow
blow till your cheeks is all aglow
and don’t forget to bone us
while you hide your bonus
blow bubble baron blow
till your cheeks is all aglow
inflate your bonus while you bone us
You better believe the commander in chief
no one meant to be a thief
send a few trillions of relief
Good grief.... relief for a thief?
sure....
It’s only Ponzi greed and grief
so blow bubble baron blow
Paulson will let you go real slow
for.....
It’s a win win game down on Wall St lane
They win on the ups They win on the downs
We take the risks they take the plunder,
‘Good morning Wall Street’
.
NEWSFLASH:
Ralph Nader will be on the Bill Maher show at 11pm Eastern / 8PM Pacific tonight.
.
With so many millions of us in troubled financial situations with no 'bailout' in sight ... this weekend could be one unlike any we have experienced in our life times.
I heard decades ago that the only difference in a recession and depression, was that in a recession your neighbors were out of work or had lost their homes ... and a depression was when it was you.
What troubles me deeply, is the time conjunction of very justifiable National Protests with our military's new mission to do for the US homeland what they've done for Iraq.
Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/
If you read this Army Times article, please notice that for two weeks from the middle of September is planned the final mission rehearsal exercise.
I heard several very concerning stories from those who attended the Conventions in Denver and St. Paul ... and the military mission here in the United States includes help with civil unrest and crowd control.
Civil unrest may very well be other defined as peaceful protests.
Be smart.
Be safe.
Again I beg of you all to please contact all the Democratic members of House and Senate to oppose this bailout.
We conservatives / libertarians have the House Republicans on the ropes but Bush and company are mercy less in their arm twisting.
The House Democrats and those Senate Democrats up for re-election are the vulnerable to be swayed to stance of NO BAILOUT!
Call them and email them and express your outrage of corporate welfare.
The People's colective brain wave has finally gone from standard flatline to modest spiking. Too bad it's only in-yur-face pocketbook issues that reanimate America's civic neurons -- but for now let's be glad the coma patient at least shows arousal.
I say be glad, but the problem remains: who's gonna interpret and help politically shape what The People are saying about this 'financial crisis?'
There's plenty of generalized indignation on Main Street: But the MSM and most of congress are already successfully containing and diffusing that indignation by sanctimoniously repeating it -- and purposely re-generalizing it (emphasis on RE-GENERALIZING.)
Unless more people come to better understand the disastrous dynamics of government-hijacked-by-private-interests, which caused this crisis, the broad electorate will remain captive to their own ignorance and to the duopoly/plutocracy's 'solutions,' as they are enacted into 'law.'
At tonight's presumably-scheduled duopoly pseudo-debates, the one credible moneywrench that could be thrown into the denial machine would be Ralph Nader.
The US public would benefit hugely from his participation.
It's an unacceptable, further playing-out of the Tragedy that Nader won't be there.
The "October Surprise" came early.
z
The Israelis are asking the U.S. permission to bomb nuclear sites in Iran.
If that happens, I think that is the "October Surprise." And will Bush claim
marshal law and stop the election?
snydly
vote nov 4----hear the results in Oct....
Nannie:
don't wait for the next election TIME TO ACT IS TODAY. Phone up your elected person and tell them you won't vote for them if they support it. It is real simple folks just one phone call each. Hell even use a pay phone if you are afraid of call display.
As I posted on the other story about this same topic.
HOW HAS THIS SO CALLED CRISES AFFECTED YOUR DAILY LIVES?????
gas stations still have gas, stores still have food, the phone and internet work. It has no affect but to the GREEDY slim called bankers and investers who thought they would make a killing and if it is voted through to save them still will.
PHONE WRITE YOUR ELECTED OFFICIAL AND TELL THEM NOT TO SUPPORT IT OR YOU VOTE AGAINST THEM. Just maybe a few thousand calls will wake the person up.
It seems clear that some form of legislation providing a "bailout" will be voted upon. That outcome will then be voted upon in November, as the election ougt to be a referendum of sorts regrding the bill itself and how your Rep votes. You might want to tell her/him just that when you write your next email this evening.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't want one penny going to Wall Street. Paulson, who ought to face criminal charges for fraud and securities manipulatrion while CEO of Goldman Sachs, and Bush, who ought to face impeachment and war crime charges, can't even agree on which lie to tell: Paulson at first says It's either the Bailout or Recession, while Bush says the economy is fine, it's still growing, productivity's up, yadda, yadda, yadda, you know the drill. Just this one very visible contradiction ought to be enough for anyone to not vote a penny for Wall Street. And as most know, there's more to the story and additional facts to use.
.
.
I’ll say it again…
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2000.
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2004.
We NEED Ralph Nader as President in 2008.
Never before as we do now
http://www.votenader.org/index.html
.
Hi, I need your help.
As you may know many conservatives are not on board with the Bush plan to let ordinary American’s pay for the costly mistakes of the badly financial industry. We believe such governmental intervention a violation of the principles of a free market, free enterprise, capitalist system. As such we are hammering the point into our elected Republican members of the House of Representatives and Senate. The only thing that stands in the way for a Bush Bailout of the financial system is the House Republicans aided by Blue Dog Democrats.
What I need is for you to hammer upon the leadership of the Democratic Party, the Democratic members of the House and Senate is your absolute abhorrence to a bailout plan that amounts to corporate welfare.
I don’t want see bi-partisan support for the Bush plan. I want a bi-partisan defeat of the Bush, Cheney, Reid and Pelosi deal.
Please contact these people and let them know what the Democratic Party’s base thinks of it.
Thank You
Normally I would support any activist working to make things better. I just think that the Democratic Party is not the solution to any of our current problems, they are merely another face of complicity with those who create our problems. Third Party and Independent politics is, in my opinion, the only way open to peaceful solutions to rampant capitalism run amok.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Actually I was with Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Push Coalition in front of Treasury today on the Hill, there were about 16 people we just wanted to support the Rainbow Push. Has anyone actually been streaming all of this and watching re; Bail Out? The Republicans are NOT correct in the manner they want to do this. McInsane was literally run out of town today after Schuman was done speaking, the Dems are refusing to comply with The MURDERER's Terrorist Threats! He is scaring hell out of the old folk, they think all their savings will POOF disappear, he is intimidating every elderly person and dumbed down USAn to jam this through so his cronies still have their talons dug in and will have at it as soon as the $$$$ are in their slimey hands. I could care less regarding myself, I may have lupus but still have money making ability. My daughters yes I am F$$KING mad crazy that my oldest in her 30's still has outstanding school loans, bail her out then and many first time unknowledgeable home buyers that knew jack @ Balloon Mortgages and Teaser Rates, they work they pay their bills now they are GD homeless! Bottom Top not Top Bottom. Of course the debate is on after they ran McInsane out on a rail they started getting down to brass tacks in a bipartisan manner, the dogfights on the House floor were truthfully hysterical! It's like when I watch Parliament, more like in is it Japan? Where they beat hell out of each other. Make no mistake this is not an accident on the Dems part it is the end of the line for the occupant @ 1600 and no more yes and shall I bend over now. This is actually a humongous Mortgage Buyout Firesale, markets are not crashed, and the you know that person threatened destruction of the entire economic system if this was not done by what yesterday? Listen to the Financial Experts that explained everything because I just listened and said, " Okay then, we're right", but you all do as you will but t'aint happenin'.
BillofRights
Be afraid! Be very afraid!
Jon Stewart Analyzes Bush’s Latest Fearmongering Speech
(great video clip)
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/26/jon-stewart-analyzes-bushs-late...
"When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."
We have the perfect tool for Direct Democracy. It is called open forum and it just needs to be designed right, it won't not be difficult to form. I can add my part to it, I propose the forum produces a paper trail which can be checked and questioned in the Congressional Building.
Let's evolve this broken tyrrany of pseudodemocracy into what our government was meant to be, By the People, For the People.
Stop robbing us.
Capitalism is dead.
Open forum is real deregulation with real democracy.
Why don't the countries that get our jobs bail out the companies that love offshoring so much. Why put the burden on American taxpayers? These criminals should be behind bars, in prison, for a long, long time. Instead, they've got their greedy hands out as usual. What a country.
How about spending even a fraction of that proposed bailout on all the displaced people in New Orleans STILL without homes! Bloody elite shysters...
The Republicans are against the bailout because they want to "cut taxes" again and they want to keep government regulations at bay. It's ironic that their misguided logic is helping the taxpayer avoid handing over that blank check. All the wrong reasons, but the result has delayed the hasty and ill-advised rip-off of the taxpayer.
Have you seen much coverage in mainstream media where you live about any protests? Any?
Actually there are ongoing protests in Washington, DC, and elsewhere. Im am certain that, by persuing a few news oriented websites , you can find articles and pictures too....Sadly where there should be tens of thousands in the streets there are only a platry few....
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Finally, the right and left agree on something.
If Stalin and Lenin were alive today, they would be very pleased with the "socialized" bailout of the US "capitalist" commercial system. I can almost hear them saying with open arms,... "Come to Poppa."
(LOL)
Not that I support the Democrats. They are complicit in all the crimes that the ruling class has committed against the people of the US and the people of the world. And the crimes against the ecosystem.
If you choose to participate in the farce that is the US election, vote for Cynthia McKinney. That'll piss 'em off.
Amen,
Does anyone notice how Obama is always so happy to talk with Bush and the Republicans?
But, do you notice that he's not sitting down with the groups organizing the protests?
Says an awful lot about what he'll be as a President when you see who he's willing to talk to and who he isn't.
Meanwhile, notice that Nader is the only candidate in this piece who's talking any sense. Vote Nader, or Vote McKinney. Just stop voting for the crooks who've been bought off by the financial sector. You know damn well they won't be on our side. And surely its obvious that the root cause of the problem we now face is the constant willingness of citizens to vote for candidates who don't represent them but who are instead already bought off with millions of bribes, uh contributions.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
Excellent Samson. The definition of political insanity: voting for the same old parties and expecting a different result. How in the hell can you expect justice when you vote for the unjust?
So I'm out on the street yesterday protesting the Wall Street bailout, with my sign suggesting that they should be in jail,
and a drunken man passes by and says "Put Congress in jail, too."
My friend says, "Yeah, and the President and Vice-President, too."
At this the drunken man starts screaming, and I believe that this is what he said (it was difficult to understand)
"It's the Democrats fault! McCain went to Congress 3 years ago, and tried to fix things, but the goddamn Democrats wouldn't let him!"
When you wonder what total imbeciles could possibly still support Bush, that would be one of the 30% who are so ignorant, so misinformed, that they are unable to be part of the reality-based community.
http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2008/09/let-judge-set-bail-not-congress....
When Bush is this desperate, you know it must be bad for what he once called the "HAVE MORES". The war in Iraq is not important; national health care is not important; ect. Since Buffet has bet 5 billion $ on the bailout,you can bet it is a done deal. Vote third party. You are wasting your vote otherwise.
The Republicans want MORE DEREGULATION! The Democrats want to give $700 billion to the mismanaged corporations. Only Third Party stands up to this mockery of our system.
All I hear about is how bad these corporations need this money, but no one has explained why. How many average Americans have enough money invested in these high risk firms that the FDIC doesn't have it insured? Can anyone explain why our economy cannot withstand the failure a few companies? Doesn't the economy as ways self-correct for business failure? Won't another, more competent company take their place?
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
--Albert Einstein
The corporate CEO I work for sent out a message today. Kinda interesting. On one hand, he acknowledges that normally he'd be opposed to this.
But, his point is that its the drying up of credit that is causing the problems. Companies need to borrow money. In our cases, its our distributors who need to borrow money to buy the inventory from us that they'll eventually sell to customers for a profit. Its the fact that the lending is trying up that is causing the problem.
Of course, that leads to other discussions. Why is the lending drying up? Is it just because the banks are taking the economy hostage to get what they want? One thing that is true is that they can do this any time they want for no better reason than that.
But more likely, its the result of all the fraud that has gone on. Two things going on there. One is that every bank now has some 'toxic' debt on their books. Thus, they are all in a bad position where they need more cash and thus are unwilling to lend away the cash they have.
And, its also a lack of trust. The lack of regulation. The lack of oversight. The lack of any significant criminal penalties for fraud in these areas. All of this has created a situation where they can't judge the risk of a debt or a loan.
That's what's bizarre about the Republican proposal to me. Its that they want more deregulation. And the worst part to me is giving the Sec of Treasury incredible powers that can't be reviewed in any way. Given that a lack of trust and confidence is that core of the problem, that's what makes this plan seem more like just one big last attempt to steal a bunch of money before everything collapses.
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"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
PS ... our CEO knows a lot about business. But I don't always agree with him politically. I'm just passing along what he said since it seems to try to answer the question I saw.
He did urge all the employees to contact Congress. I did so, but probably not with the message he wanted. :) My email was probably a lot closer to that of the protestors out in the street!
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"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
George Bailey was never born. Welcome to Pottersville.
PK
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Damn funny!!!! Damn humorous too!!!
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Watching McCain since the Wall Street fiasco started, it's obvious he believes he's the only one who can fix the problem - it's his duty as commander-in-chief. When my mother was at this stage of alzheimers, she believed Ronald Reagan had sent her an invitation to be his special guest at his inauguration.
I've maintained damn near since I heard McCain speak that he has alzheimers. BTW: Where are the REST of McCain's Medical records? Hmmmmmm
Ain't truth strange than fiction? Now it is the Dimocrats fighting to pass the Paulson plan in support of Bush, while the house regugs refuse to go along. Any doubt now who you should vote for in the upcoming election? Nader gets my vote, hands down.
what a bunch of crap! The cowardly (hero) McCain is running from the debate because he knows he's f*cked! here's what i am doing: I am boycotting the debates if Ralph Nader is excluded. Have the courage of your convictions and vote NADER 2008. Otherwise you are just part of the problem.
Boycott the entire election process. It is corrupt, and it only steps to the beckoning of the corporate tentacle of the U.S. govorporation. Let if fall, and from the ashes, in a few decades, there may arise something better, something different, at least. Let us sit as the sidelines & critique those who still believe they can turn vinegar into wine. Throw out the vinegar, grow some new grapes and start over. This is the end, sayeth The Doors. There is precedent for this behavior. There are art and film critics who are not artists or scriptwriters who critique. There are sports writers who do not play sports. There are pundits who are not politicians, but they may be paid by them. So stop participating in a corrupt system. When the pollsters call, tell them you have politely bowed out. Every Christmas the christians can send a holiday card to their senators & representatives just to let them know they are still jerks for screwing the public. Hell, there are a lot of ways to participate as a critic of the Amerikan Way! Here, watch me. I'm not voting for McCain because he's a blundering fool with the mind equal in I.Q. to a box of nails. I'm not voting for Obama because he flipped on the FISA regulation. Some say that the alternative FISA bill would have been worse, but this is the fallacy of false alternatives. What have the Greens done in the past few years? Hell, they have a tough time just updating their damn web site! Libertarians. Ha! Two party system. Ha!
I have to go pull my money out of my bank now before it's taken over by the Feds.
Boycotting the political process is the worst idea possible.
The second line of this post points out the problem. It seems to imply that if we don't vote, the system will fail. But it won't. It only means that if we don't vote, then the winner is just decided by the people who did vote. All you are doing when you boycott the political process is that you let the crooks take control of the system.
Especially when there are good candidates out there running who you can vote for. That really makes this a bad idea. You can go vote for someone like Nader or McKinney. There are really good choices on the ballot. Why wouldn't you want to go vote for them?
If there was a rule in the system that required what Congress calls a "quorum", then boycotting might make sense. This would be a rule that basically said an election was not valid unless some minimum turnout percentage was met. If we had that rule, I could see boycotting as a strategy.
But we don't have a rule like that. The system won't collapse just because you don't vote. By not voting, all you did was give the crooks the control of the system. This is a really bad idea.
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"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
You are right, there's no "quorum rule" in Elections. But I think if the "turnout" ever dropped below 50% in a Prez. election year things could get interesting.
Plus, why ISN'T there such a rule? How can someone claim the kind of right to rule that a modern President does when only 30 something percent of the Citizens have voted for them?
I think the crooks are already in control of the system.
I think it is important to remember that our vote this Nov 4th is not just a vote for Prez. but also for Congress, and Governor, and Council, and Sheriff, and Dogcatcher etc. etc.
I see no reason to boycott these votes, so while you're there take a minute to vote for Prez. too if you really want to, its not really all that much of a hassle.
Don't Panic,
-matti.
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Nader can win....... The voters will decide.
Nader will change things.
Nader is our only hope.
Nader is the only choice.
Fight the Two-party system.
VOTE NADER 2008… You’ll be glad you did and so will I…
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Honestly, the majority of the US population has been "boycotting" elections for years by not showing up. Look where it got us. If the powerful discourage us from exercising our little bitty bit of power, they do not see it as a reproof, but as a relief. It would be best for them if we did away with voting altogether.
I always show up. I may vote for a candidate, a judge or an issue on the ballot. Sometimes I just go into the booth, pull the lever to the voting position, push it back to the finished position and walk out without having voted for anyone.
There is a difference between boycott and passivity. I urge everyone to show up and then vote their conscience. Even a null vote shows you are there and paying attention.
We need to build a big third party that stands for the people and organizes in between elections. I really liked Cindy Sheehan's attempts to build protest actions against the bailout.
Joe
snydly
The political spectrum is not a line with two ends, but a broken circle with the ends closer to each other than to the "middle". Purple could get 60% of the votes in this country.
I was too late getting my money out of WaMu. Now it's in the hands of JP Morgan.
I've been saying for years that if we want to really send a message to our "representatives" we should all boycott the election - what a farce elections are. In fact, I've been boycotting the elections since 1992, ever since I helped elected Clinton to office and he turned out to be a totalitarian. At the time I used to say Clinton was the most totalitarian president ever. Then along came his successor!!!
Instead of voting, just give money to organizations. They "vote" on your behalf all year long by bribing - oops, I mean lobbying - politicians.
Idealism - as in believing in a healthy electoral process - is nice. But that's not the way the political game is really played today. Actually, I'm kind of surprised that politicians are even noticing all the public protest against these Wall Street bailout plans.
Dave
http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/
OK, we've seen voter turnout fall during the time you've been 'boycotting'.
What effect has that had?
It doesn't effect the elections at all. The winner is decided on the person with the most of the votes actually cast. There's no minimum turnout numbers to make an election valid. There's no minimum number of votes to get to win.
Lets say we got to the point where the only people who voted were the candidates, their spouses and their mothers and one lobbyist who has a stake in the election.
One candidate would get 4 votes. The other would get 3 votes. The candidate with 4 votes wins and takes the office. So, by not voting, you just let the lobbyist decide the election. There's no minimum turnout required, so this is a valid electionn and the crook selected by the lobbyist now gets a lot of power over everyone else.
That's a simple example, but that's the way it works. The decisions are made by those who participate. All you are doing by not voting is letting other people make the decision. Now you seem like you don't like the decisions they made. But, since you gave away your chance to have a say in things, is this a surprise?
Note: In the above I assume that the candidate's spouse and mother vote for that candidate. :)
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"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
"It doesn't effect the elections at all."
There may or may not be truth in what you say... IF.. you are only focused upon ONE election.
And that's the problem. No change occurs if you can only gain a perspective that is confined by any one given election. All you do is validate the system. That in itself would not be a real concern if the system wasn't designed to alienate, disenfranchise, segregate, discriminate, deny access and generally... protect itself from any and all meaningful change.
And that effort is in concert. It occurs by every rule and everyone within "The Party"... through a process of collusion. "The Party" disallows any real challenge to what it claims as its sole provenance.
So... go ahead and validate the system if you really believe that unthinking action furthers your political viewpoints. For those of us who desire real change, the only real option available is to abstain (and NO, that's not apathy)... or cast a protest vote.
It is a political act and it is our right to act politically. It is the only democratic recourse available in a system that refuses to consider ideology outside an exceedingly narrow corporatist structure. It is the one remaining free choice that we can make.
That you see little or no value in exercising our democratic right NOT to vote, speaks volumes. You parrot a message that is part and parcel to every controlling dogmatic definition of "democracy", that emanates from within "The Party". VOTE!! It doesn't matter who your candidate is.... just VOTE!!
They so desperately need your validation. Without it... think what might be perceived. But then, we are taught that it's only good manners to look away when we see someone without clothes... and from your post I'm certain that you agree with a philosophy that the pretension that everything is "OK" is de rigor.
Try looking around a bit with your eyes only *half* open... it's good exercise if nothing else. Otherwise you might just continue to convince yourself that your "blind" passion has some real meaning... and we all know that self-delusion can be a cruel mistress.
Just look at yourself.
First of all, what I want to see is zero people vote (or as close to zero as possible). Merely falling numbers of participants is, as you point out, not particularly interesting.
Secondly, as I said, I do vote, just not the way our rulers want us to vote. Voting at the polls is a distraction, meant to deceive the populace into feeling that they're participating, when in fact their vote is irrelevant. I vote with money, which is the fuel the political system really runs on.
Did electing a Democratic legislature across the board in 2006 get the U.S. out of Iraq? Do you recall that that election was more or less a referendum about just that topic, and that the sweeping Democratic win was as close as anything to a mandate to withdraw from Iraq? Were the wishes of the voters implemented?
Dave
http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/
To continue, if people believe that elections in the U.S. are “free,” here’s how the system really works:
1) The mainstream media, which is owned by a handful of multinational corporations, preselects the allowed candidates. In the case of this presidential campaign, the mainstream media early on decided to exclude Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel and Ralph Nader, leaving only Hillary, McCain and Obama as its anointed candidates. The mainstream media also controls political advertising, deciding what ads get aired and how much they will cost.
2) The party conventions further reduce the number of choices, sometimes resorting to juvenile measures, such as shutting off the microphone when people speak before an audience and mention non-sanctioned candidates, such as Ron Paul. The product of these conventions is two officially vetted, “safe” candidates that the people get to choose from.
3) Voters are then channeled into a carefully controlled polling system and supervised the whole way.
a) Voter registration drives are made illegal or onerous, especially when they seek to register unwelcome participants.
b) Polling places are gerrymandered to control participation. The number of polling places is reduced in unwelcome districts. “Snafus” cause excessive delays in some polling places. Of course, these are clever techniques to discourage unwelcome voters from sticking around to vote.
c) Should a voter manage to fight their way to the polling booth, some poll worker then looks up their name on a list of authorized voters and demands appropriate ID. The absence of one’s name on the list or “insufficient” identity documents will disqualify one from voting. And these requirements vary from place to place, at the whim of those controlling the process in each electoral district.
4) In the improbable event that a voter should actually get to vote, the machine can be easily rigged to change their vote without their knowledge. Or their ballot can get “lost” or be deemed “illegible” or improperly filled out.
5) Once in office, most politicians seem to develop a sudden partial deafness toward their nominal constituents, but somehow manage hear their true constituents, the tens of thousands of lobbyists trolling Washington, without a hearing aid.
So I say, why not bypass steps 1-4 and jump straight to step 5 and just give money to the lobbyists in Washington.
Dave
http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/
snydly
The political spectrum is not a line with two ends, but a broken circle with the ends closer to each other than to the "middle". Purple could get 60% of the votes in this country.
Sorry, but I have one more thing to add. Consider your fellow voters. Do you really believe they are informed voters? I used to read the election "books" prior to elections and my college-educated mind could barely understand the propositions. I seriously doubted that the votes cast by most people voting on these propositions were anything more than random choices. And what about the politicians that people are voting for? I know more about Obama and McCain than probably 90% of their supporters. Do the majority of voters even know who or what they are voting for? Or are their votes little more than crap shoots? What good is an electoral system in which 90% of the votes might as well be random casts of the dice?
Dave
http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/
I would confess that your facts are, in the main, accurate sad to say. However, the solution at which you arrive by assimilating these facts leads us only to further hardship and farther from true democracy and equitable solutions to our problems..
Rahter than absent oneself from a process that is in need, and desperate need, of repair, a citizen is obligated to work towards solutions to those problems, otherwise she must claim her share of blame. I cannot stress enough that poor voter turnout, frustrations like you display, and alienation form a sick and sordid system are all normal reactions but at the same time they play into the hands of those who benefit most from nonparticipation.
What you suggest dooms us rather than saves us.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Sioux Rose
The record of this administration in mismanaging everything from make-war to the Katrina aftermath, with trillions in unexplained losses in Iraq (when not utilizing crony contractors who were not regulated via any form of oversight) to show for their "efforts," is cause enough to delay ALL operations until the next administration and make sure that REGULATION is put back into the equation, or this leak will remain open and all funds will pass through it into the blackhole created by those who could care less about the welfare of our nation or its people. It is sad that as another poser mentioned, the death to another nation didn't rouse this much response; but America certainly rises up when her checkbook is taken out of her purse without permission.
Don't take this personally, I'm just quoting Clinton, "It's the economy stupid!" Americans don't care if rednecks, blacks, immigrants, die destroying other countries, as long as they get their Big-Screen T.V.s and Humvees. It is when their personal material well being is threatened, they get angry and demand change, we are seeing this happen right now. The entire political spectrum, from progressive to libertarian, is united against the Bail out.
This is the moment for progressives. We need a practical plan for the economy, that will benefit ALL Americans, to bring the people to our side.
The moment has arrived. Will we rise to the occasion?
Do The World A Favor And Retire!
Green Retirement Planning
"The moment has arrived. Will we rise to the occasion?"
I wonder about this too. As we excoriate Americans in general, are we including ourselves? What have we, individual progressives, done? Besides posting on blogs, that is.
Will we rise to the occasion, indeed.
I retired at 57 in '04.
And not to appear senile, there is some truth how far 700 billion $ would go, divided equally, to each American adult, head of household, single mother, filing jointly, number of dependents with numbers for SocSec. Sounds like a TAX return. Call it that based on the fact Corporations haven't contributed a fucking dime in 40 years, but have no problem whatsoever with asking for our tax money.
Say, 1.5 million dollars down to .5 million dollars according to personal tax return for '08, which would not be taxable by any authority into oblivion. There would still be 300 billion + or- 25 billion.
And I dare say the American people deserve it a hell of a lot more than those fools on Wall St. oh! And no political office holder from local to fed gets a dime.
I can outdo you on age and working life. I'm 72. I retired after working and saving and paying my bills. I paid into social security for 46 years. Over half my income now is from social security.
I have never been so angry at my government in my life. One of the points of contention is executive pay. Bush wants to allow CEOs to continue to be paid a million a month. McCain is arguing for a mere $400,000 per year. The $400,000 a year is ten times more than I ever made in a year. Yet people like me are supposed to pay these peoples salaries.
It is clear that ordinary people are nothing. We are the great, unwashed peasantry who are only important as consumers or workers. Aside from that, we are no more important than factory farm animals.
The CEO of Walmart makes, in an eight hour period, what it takes the workers of that company an entire year to accumulate.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Let me check my wrist to see what time it is. Yep, it’s half past a T x R volt! Perhaps we should facilitate the downfall of the current corrupt govorporation. Now, I wouldn’t actually be in a position to offer tax advice, but I think it would be beneficial to the citizens, the plebeians actually, if we would simply mention to our neighbors that we just might be leaning toward shaving off about 30% of our tax payment to the govorporation next year. I wouldn’t go blabbering about this in the commons, but simply bringing it up during the next PTA meeting, religious gathering, knitting party, drinking binge, pizza eating competition, commercial during American Idol or the Ed Sullivan re-runs, would probably do a great deal toward bringing down the next corrupt administration—that would be McCain-Palin because the republicans have been placing their stealth operatives in many states for several years now. When the litigation starts regarding the massive election fraud, well, it all ends up at the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court is packed with ideologues. Good luck, Amerika because you will really, really, really need it.
For a change, this outpouring of protest seems to be getting through the skulls of our so-called "representatives." They are all aware that the opposition to this bailout is off the charts.
Keep the pressure up - I've sent three letters to my Senator, Jim Bunning - and maybe we can make these banksters eat their losses ... they way we would if we blew all our money in a casino.
Dave
http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/
Dave writes, "For a change, this outpouring of protest seems to be getting through the skulls of our so-called 'representatives'..."
- Interestingly, it's only getting through to the skulls of REPUBLICANS!! Oh, the irony -- it's just too funny! The Democrats can hardly wait to roll over & submit cravenly (their usual position) to Paulson's extortion. They want only a bit of political cover, both from Republicans, & some fig-leafs to protect them from their own voters.
But the House Republicans, of all people, are sensing the public opposition to the bailout, & are seeing a way to exploit it! I mean, of all people to be playing the "populist" card -- the House Republicans!!
The Republican alternative proposals aren't really populist, of course. Actually, they're designed to extort even more deregulation. But they are cleverly designed to APPEAR populist on the surface.
Nothing could be funnier than the idea of the neo-fascists pretending to be populists, while the Democrats -- the erstwhile "party of the people" -- are sitting there begging to be allowed to prostrate themselves before Paulson & Wall Street.
Who said irony is dead? Who ever said that fascists don't have a sense of humor?
There's a strange caricature of Republicans that seems to exist among the left.
At one point, the Republicans were a very fiscally conservative party. And it would have been perfectly natural for those Republicans to oppose something like this. Go back to the 1970's and the debate over the bailout of Chrysler then to see a good example.
And you probably don't have to go back that far. Its really only Dubya that has recently abandoned the old conservative fiscal conservatism.
But, just because the leaders have abandon this position, that doesn't mean their base has. So to me, it makes perfect sense that there i