Historical narratives matter. That's why conservatives are still writing books denouncing F.D.R. and the New Deal; they understand that the way Americans perceive bygone eras, even eras from the seemingly distant past, affects politics today.
And it's also why the furor over Barack Obama's praise for Ronald Reagan is not, as some think, overblown. The fact is that how we talk about the Reagan era still matters immensely for American politics.
Bill Clinton knew that in 1991, when he began his presidential campaign. "The Reagan-Bush years," he declared, "have exalted private gain over public obligation, special interests over the common good, wealth and fame over work and family. The 1980s ushered in a Gilded Age of greed and selfishness, of irresponsibility and excess, and of neglect."
Contrast that with Mr. Obama's recent statement, in an interview with a Nevada newspaper, that Reagan offered a "sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."
Maybe Mr. Obama was, as his supporters insist, simply praising Reagan's political skills. (I think he was trying to curry favor with a conservative editorial board, which did in fact endorse him.) But where in his remarks was the clear declaration that Reaganomics failed?
For it did fail. The Reagan economy was a one-hit wonder. Yes, there was a boom in the mid-1980s, as the economy recovered from a severe recession. But while the rich got much richer, there was little sustained economic improvement for most Americans. By the late 1980s, middle-class incomes were barely higher than they had been a decade before - and the poverty rate had actually risen.
When the inevitable recession arrived, people felt betrayed - a sense of betrayal that Mr. Clinton was able to ride into the White House.
Given that reality, what was Mr. Obama talking about? Some good things did eventually happen to the U.S. economy - but not on Reagan's watch.
For example, I'm not sure what "dynamism" means, but if it means productivity growth, there wasn't any resurgence in the Reagan years. Eventually productivity did take off - but even the Bush administration's own Council of Economic Advisers dates the beginning of that takeoff to 1995.
Similarly, if a sense of entrepreneurship means having confidence in the talents of American business leaders, that didn't happen in the 1980s, when all the business books seemed to have samurai warriors on their covers. Like productivity, American business prestige didn't stage a comeback until the mid-1990s, when the U.S. began to reassert its technological and economic leadership.
I understand why conservatives want to rewrite history and pretend that these good things happened while a Republican was in office - or claim, implausibly, that the 1981 Reagan tax cut somehow deserves credit for positive economic developments that didn't happen until 14 or more years had passed. (Does Richard Nixon get credit for "Morning in America"?)
But why would a self-proclaimed progressive say anything that lends credibility to this rewriting of history - particularly right now, when Reaganomics has just failed all over again?
Like Ronald Reagan, President Bush began his term in office with big tax cuts for the rich and promises that the benefits would trickle down to the middle class. Like Reagan, he also began his term with an economic slump, then claimed that the recovery from that slump proved the success of his policies.
And like Reaganomics - but more quickly - Bushonomics has ended in grief. The public mood today is as grim as it was in 1992. Wages are lagging behind inflation. Employment growth in the Bush years has been pathetic compared with job creation in the Clinton era. Even if we don't have a formal recession - and the odds now are that we will - the optimism of the 1990s has evaporated.
This is, in short, a time when progressives ought to be driving home the idea that the right's ideas don't work, and never have.
It's not just a matter of what happens in the next election. Mr. Clinton won his elections, but - as Mr. Obama correctly pointed out - he didn't change America's trajectory the way Reagan did. Why?
Well, I'd say that the great failure of the Clinton administration - more important even than its failure to achieve health care reform, though the two failures were closely related - was the fact that it didn't change the narrative, a fact demonstrated by the way Republicans are still claiming to be the next Ronald Reagan.
Now progressives have been granted a second chance to argue that Reaganism is fundamentally wrong: once again, the vast majority of Americans think that the country is on the wrong track. But they won't be able to make that argument if their political leaders, whatever they meant to convey, seem to be saying that Reagan had it right.
Paul Krugman is Professor of Economics at Princeton University and a regular New York Times columnist. His most recent book is The Conscience of a Liberal.
Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company
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110 Comments so far
Show AllSorry for the off topic comment but -
It's official, Kucinich is dropping out of the race! He says that he is not endorsing anyone, but he needs to endorse Edwards, and he needs to do it NOW, while it can still make a difference!
If you were a Kucinich supporter, tell him to endorse Edwards NOW!
EDWARDS '08
KEM -- The lines are where the upper lip is made heart shaped (two pieces), and really feels like the seemingly finger of God was pressed into that space beneath the nose and over the pursed lips in a gesture of "quiet now please" while voicing aloud "sheeeeesh".
For a man as articulate and interested as yourself, one could wait a long time for an empty duration in your head.
Boy, now I feel better, you're so astute with words, sometimes it goes over my emty head.
KEM -- No. I just am warped, (and my humor) is twisted obtusely. I'm generally angry a lot the time (that I'm not enraged, or driving), but reading and conversing with you makes me joyous.
The dimples. I was just attempting something to have you imagine what God might have said to make dimples on people, like having one leg shorter to go better around in circles …
"I did though at least expect him to correct the false statements he made when he was trying to protect the Presidency. Instead, he talked about it as though I had laid it all out there for the taking. I was the buffet and he just couldn't resist the dessert."- Monica Lewinsky
http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2004-06-25-lewinsky-clinton_x.ht...
"When I think of the person that I thought was Bill Clinton, I think he had genuine remorse. When I think of the person that I now see is 100 percent politician, I think he's sorry he got caught."-Monica Lewinsky
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/03/04/lewinsky.interview/
"I don't want to present myself as some kind of singular figure…I think what is different is the times…I think we're in one of those times right now. I think that we're bogged down in one of those times right now…I think Kennedy moved the country in a fundamentally different direction…I think the Republican approach has played itself out…What I'm saying is is that I think the average baby boomer has moved beyond the issues of the 60s, but our politicians haven't…."-Barack Obama
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/VIDEO/80115026&o...
18 minutes in
"Obama-Reagan Context You Have Not Read"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/18/172928/040/265/439089
"As Blair has said, in war there will be civilian was well as military casualties. There is, too, as both Britain and America agree, some risk of Saddam using or transferring his weapons to terrorists. There is as well the possibility that more angry young Muslims can be recruited to terrorism. But if we leave Iraq with chemical and biological weapons, after 12 years of defiance, there is a considerable risk that one day these weapons will fall into the wrong hands and put many more lives at risk than will be lost in overthrowing Saddam." -Bill Clinton, March 18, 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,916233,00.html
"During a campaign swing for his wife, former President Bill Clinton said flatly yesterday that he opposed the war in Iraq "from the beginning" - a statement that is more absolute than his comments before the invasion in March 2003."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/us/politics/28clinton.html
I thought your brown eyes comment was funny. Are you angry with me?
Did my hazel eyes comment upset you Nspire? If so, I guess my attempts at humor are not funny. I take it you are telling me to shut my two vertical lines below my nose?
KEM -- One can easily be misled when considering two different unknown processes, that apparently have similar outcomes (like your eye color).
For example, start with a document COPY 0. and make two copies, that includes several times the use of both cat and dog.
COPY I. Substitute cat for dog, and replace all - and then attempt to reverse this, by replacing dog for cat.
COPY II. Substitute dog for cat, and replace all - and then attempt to reverse this, by replacing cat for dog.
Now compare the three different documents, and notice that some of the "same" process was quite able to create different results. This is a result of not using the leading and following spaces around " cat " and " dog ", when matching patterns. Other common words share these 3-letters and will create havoc when attempting to reverse the process.
I have no idea about the dimples, but do remember Christopher Walken's character once saying in a movie, that the two vertical lines below our noses were put there when God attempted to quiet humankind's FEAR, that "shooosh all will be well". Does that help?
The young may hope that Obama is the next JFK. However, I do hope that they will read their history about the abominable practices of the late REagan. And I hope they will read their American History and study psychology so they can see through the lies and deception that will fill the air waves now until the next exection. I look to the young to learn in spite of their elders who praise Reagan or Republican Right-Wing beliefs. Can''t change the ideology of the Rush and Hanity pack, and the mature who do know the difference aren't making enough noise to deflect the young from being swept up into another frenzie based on deception mixed with glamour.
I have hazel eyes. Dimples too.
MIKE BIN SC -- Indubitably morally wrong, for Arnold to have praise for his SS father's boss' boss,
but at least he's an "honest" politico - that doesn't hide his fascism in the cloak of Christian piety and grace.
Arnold is gearing up for Califatherland and the new reich, and isn't shy or ashamed of his father's fatherland.
He is so full of himself that his eyes are brown
I liken Barack Obama's statements about Reagan, to Arnold Swartzeneggar's comments about admiration of Hitler as a great leader.
Both comments can be explained away with much effort, but both comments are JUST PLAIN WRONG, and should never have been made to start with.
Reagan was nothing but shit with skin on it.........
No tribute to Ronald Reagan will be complete without exerps the Brian Mulroney Eulogy:
President Reagan's visit had been important, demanding and successful. Our discussions reflected the international agenda of the times: the nuclear threat posed by the Soviet Union and the missile deployment by NATO; pressures in the Warsaw Pact, challenges resulting from the Berlin Wall and the ongoing separation of Germany; and bilateral and hemispheric free trade. ...
Some in the West during the early 1980s believed communism and democracy were equally valid and viable. This was the school of "moral equivalence." In contrast, Ronald Reagan saw Soviet communism as a menace to be confronted in the genuine belief that its squalid underpinning would fall swiftly to the gathering winds of freedom. Provided, as he said, that NATO and the industrialized democracies stood firm and united. They did. And we know now who was right.
Ronald Reagan was a president who inspired his nation and transformed the world. He possessed a rare and prized gift called leadership – that ineffable and sometimes magical quality that sets some men and women apart so that millions will follow them as they conjure up grand visions and invite their countrymen to dream big and exciting dreams. ...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/reagan_ronald/mulroneyeulogy.html
Who was Chancellor of Germany at the time of the reunification. Oh yes, Helmut Kohl. Didn't Kohl go down in a money kickback scandal?
And didn't Mulroney take money in paper envelopes in hotel rooms?
Reagan was either equally corrupt, naive or already suffering from the effects of Alzheimers. Either way, it happened on his watch.
Chancellor=President=Prime Minister
Dear Sirs and Mesdames,
This subject, in my mind, is the most immediate most urgent and serious matter confronting the Human Race. Despite the fact that many great minds, philosophers, politicians, academics and economists, have all created eminent careers based on their knowledge and understanding of how free enterprise, national economies and the human race interact, they have all failed to admit the obvious. It is glaringly obvious that we have large swathes of the human race that do not have access to money; it is that simple.
Therefore we need a system of economy that literally accommodates the needs and aspirations of every human being. A system that will not rely on taxing others' in order to provide all the multifarious forms of infrastructures, as well as our human and social obligations. A system of taxation in which the haves are continually being pressured to claw back those taxes from the have-nots. We must face the fact, once and for all; this system can never provide all human needs and infrastructures.
We have allowed right-wing ideology to dictate the terms and even if or when large swathes of populations may be fed and housed or have health needs addressed. We tolerate the fact that we have millions of working poor who will never earn enough to meet all of life's basic costs. Many of these are struggling to raise families the bedrock of our future. Those who work lead the most precarious of lives.
Precarious, because their work and income has become the plaything of corporate power, which moves production to lower waged economies. This makes the executives and the shareholders richer but at the cost of the misery they leave behind. Wages go down, but not prices, or costs of living, and the formerly free "social wage entitlements" are removed.
This is the "rationalized" world directed by Corporate Power and implemented by our Governments, the world of "user pays".
Take it or suffer the consequences. The Government calls this "work choices". Hear the Corporate applause? The consequences are total destitution for some; they could buy none of life's essential services.
Complete and total destitution for many unless they work, no shelter, no food, no health care, and no education, none of life's necessities.
So we need a system, which provides equal opportunity and care for all, overlaid with free enterprise. At the same time we can put in place a fair and equitable industrial relations system that eliminates employer employee antagonisms.
Our democracy is in serious trouble. Rich people and corporations channel funds into political parties in order to achieve their own commercial or ideological ends cleverly bypassing democratic inputs. It is happening in all democracies but that does not make it "worlds best practice" or "right". We can correct that quite easily. We make so-called free trade agreements under which corporations are exempted from government regulation that control workers rights, pay and working conditions. Is this democracy, is this really necessary, should corporations have such unbridled power, where will it end?
Introduction of The Universal Economy will immediately and substantially impact and improve such questions as Poverty, provision of universal education, health care, pensions, unemployment, housing and all public infrastructure (roads bridges schools hospitals etc). None of this will require the imposition of taxation.
The concept of The Universal Economy will be easy to introduce, because it benefits everyone, everyone will want it to work. It will be hardest to implement in third world nations, not impossible, just slower to implement. It will kick start economies wherever it is introduced.
This is a concept for the twenty-first century. Put to one side traditional thought processes and embedded conventions see only the greater-good and benefit of mankind then you will support this enterprise with the open heart and mind it deserves. Adopt this concept for the good of humanity.
Give your support, not money.
Yours Faithfully, THOMAS W ADAMS.
http://www.trafford.com/07-2440
Good analysis by Krugman regarding Reaganomics. But I just wonder why liberals never resurface Iran-Contra.
Reagan actually committed treason in illegally approving the shipment of weapons of Iran when that nation was on the US official terrorist list?
Why do Dems continue to let Reagan off the hook when it comes to that?
moonraven - If there is a "obvious solution to the political problem of the US" I would dearly love for you to point out the obvious.
Siouxrose, what was it like when Reagan came in? What changed? Did things get better or worse?
Usually I can come up with some vague generality which is in the ballpark, but this time for sure I don't know. I know what it was like in Canada.
"We're tiny, we're tooney
We don't even have a loonie
'Cause Brian Mulroney
Invented GST"
(Heard it from my friend's daughter)
Personally I'm ignoring Obama's Reagan remark, for I don't really know what his intention was, it was a dumb remark. They all make them at some point during a presidential race. Their speech writers aren't all perfect.
What I'm looking for is substance, honesty, character and the ISSUES. Issues are the bottom line. In my opinion, John Edwards wins on all of those points. The economy, the lost war and occupation of Iraq, clean energy, fighting lobbying in Washington, fighting big business, health care, Social Security, education and the security of our nation. Edwards wins on EVERY issue. The others have some good points and they would be better than Bush. __ So, who in hell wouldn't? My Irish terrier would be a better president than Bush is, she's a hell of a lot smarter, and wouldn't torture frogs or start an illegal, war.
The MAJOR problem is, the media is bending over backwards to hurt John Edwards. For just one little example: when Edwards was finishing a remark at last night's debate, he mentioned Martin Luther King Jr. had endorsed him, and before the words were fully spoken, Wolf blitzer interuppted him as the cameras left Edwards and zoomed in on Blitzer.
They effectively upstaged a very important remark by Edwards. They do it constantly, the TV producers are experts at their business and they take their orders from major corporations, who now control our government. That's Fascism, and that's what we have. Vote for John Edwards, he will fight them and has a proven track reord of doing so __ and he wins.
RE: - My God, the poor guy was only stating history, he wasn't proposing Reagan for President.
It was Obama's statement about "the excesses of the 60's and 70's" that sunk him. There is no way to dress that up nicely. What was "excessive" about those two decades which was not "excessive" about the decades which followed? Those decades where they hay day of the social safety net and worker rights - all things that various corporate interests found "excessive".
Obama did not just comment on Reagan's style and ability to sell "hope."
RE: - My father was not driven by an illusory vision of a perfect society. He was driven by the certain knowledge that when people of good faith and strong principles commit to making things better, we can change hearts, we can change minds, and we can change lives.
This sounds like a veiled dig on Obama. I don't think that one can top an endorsement by Martin Luther King's son! Way to go Edwards!
RE: - Does anybody know that Mike Gravel is running and is excellent?
I do because Nader mentioned his name when he was on The Hour last. Nader was impressed by Gravel but endorsed Edwards. Wouldn't mind hearing more about him, though.
RE: - "We Don't Need No Ronald Reagan" to the tune of that Pink Floyd song that was a popular favorite with 1980s eighth graders.
"We don't need no space control
No Shamrock Summits with Mulroney
Hey Reagan, leave Free Trade alone"
RE: - Reagan was a great president. Listen to the people!
Lizard, I know you are being sarcastic, but it is hard for Canadians to understand why Reagan is held in so much higher esteem than Brian Mulroney. Think of it, if Mulroney was taking envelopes full of money in hotel rooms, what was Reagan, with all his military spending doing?
RE: - Nader's role in Bush's election is now part of history, which in time may be forgotten but does not change.
Bush getting in had nothing to do with Nader - Gore won even with the crooked ballot boxes. That theory has been debunked. Though the Liberals bring it up every election to scare NDPers into voting for them instead of the NDP.
RE: - First of all, neither Edwards nor Nader has any policies. Edwards has campaign promises and rhetoric, and Nader has just his own voice.
Martin Luther King III respectfully disagrees with you. It was Edwards policies which sold King's son on Edward. Though I do agree with one of the people following the debate on Edwards's webpage that Edwards should have mentioned Tommy Douglas. Then again Edwards did not get a chance to respond to Obama at that point so he didn't have a chance to.
RE: -
RE: -
RE: -
lizard opined "[Reagan] was a disgrace and still adored. The American populace will never cease to disappoint you."
Reagan? Adored? I seem to remember his popularity ratings swirling around in the toilet for practically his entire second term.
Reagan wasn't adored by anyone but revisionist GOP historians. Any popularity that he did have stemmed from the Embassy hostages being released on the day of his inauguration, an episode that his operatives had a decisive hand in bringing about.
Other than outright treason, his administration is mainly remembered for bringing about a reign of terror in Central America, which involved directly contravening congressional legislation, aiding our enemies, and running drugs into California; and selling out the federal government to monied interests. The fact that Congress didn't have the cajones to impeach the bastard has lead directly to our present day problems.
And the fact that the present congress still doesn't have the cajones to impeach the present bastard will lead directly to tomorrow's nightmare.
Clemsy pleaded "Thanks Ronnie. So effective were you that the Democratic party gives us only cowards too willing to lead the lemmings over the cliff. Will someone of substance please stand up!"
Standing up is the kiss of death in American politics, and the leading politicians know this. John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy were stand-up politicians, and we know what happened there.
Standing up only makes sense in a stand-up society, and the US left that building in the 1960s. The reason that the Democratic party gives us only cowards too willing to lead the lemmings over the cliff (and the GOP gives us schoolyard bullies only too willing to push the lemmings off the cliff) is because we are now a society of lemmings.
We get what we deserve.
Obama completely lost me as a voter when he linked himself to Reagan. Hillary never had my vote, since she is corporate/military sponsored. Edwards of the top three is the only hope. Yet, "they" won't let him be elected. Kucinich was removed from debates by "rules." Sorry Democracy is dead. The election is rigged. Food for thought: When was a coup d'etat ever elected out?
I am truly sorry that Obama feels positive about Reagan. And, though I had already pretty much discounted any chance that I would vote for someone I view as another Corporate toady that statement pretty much put the last nail in the coffin. I think what he is playing to is the surveys and history that show the candidate with the most optimistic view is most often the person who wins the race. Truth ain't in it.
Veteran '66-68
Reagan/Ray-gun was a dimwit who was led by the nose by the palaeocons of his day. He lived by the cue card. Let's rename the airport in Washington the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Airport; the palaeos screwed the country by naming the national airport for a President who worked for the narrowest of constituencies. Oh, I guess that proposal won't get the support of the spineless Dimocrats...
My God, the poor guy was only stating history, he wasn't proposing Reagan for President.
He was trying to make the point that Reagan brought real change, he wasn't commenting on his economic policies. Krugman's off base here.
Stop the lockstep thinking. Don't like Obama, support Hillary. Edwards is still in the race if neither suit.
Until Obama made the Reagan remark I thought the guy had some class and was leaning toward him. But now I am taking a harder look at him. As far as I am concerned Reagan is right under Bush for worst President honors. He did more to destroy the working class in this country than any other President in recent history. His 'trickle down' economic policies almost destroyed us. The only difference between him and Bush he was quieter about destroying the working class than Bush has been. But, he was just as corrupt, two faced and unprincipled. They are the kind of men who have given conservative Republican's a terrible name in my book. That was when I started taking a long hard look at the Republican policies and did not like what I saw in the slightest. As far as I am concerned Obama hurt himself with that remark. I know the remark made a bad impression on me.
Larry Beinhart recently posted this excellent critique of Reago-Bushonomics.
www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-beinhart/the-economy-is-a-problem_b_82523.h...
The alleged 35% economic growth that's taken place over the past 7 years? Beinhart says it never happened: the "growth" numbers reflect only the growth in money supply.
Republicans have given us war and made us poor.
Krugman's "dear leader" narrative is unhelpful. The power and responsibility are in the hands of the citizens. Citizens have to do their civic duty by talking to fellow citizens about how to serve the society's better interests (also the individual's better interests 90% of the time) so for example school teachers talk to kids about it. But citizens are stopped from doing their civic duty by their dependence on jobs. Jobs are at risk when civic duty calls, because the "higher ups" threaten, and the media turns the blind eye. It's a highly specialized society, people are not self-sufficient. They are dependent. It's by design. If by luck a sensible "dear leader" comes along, the hierarchy changes to allow citizens to do their civic duty. But decades of "democracy" may pass under institutional corruption so the alternative is for citizens to become self-sufficient. Then, citizens may do their civic duty without fear of losing jobs, and talk to fellow citizens about how to serve society's better interests.
You peole remind me of gerbils in a cage--round and round you go on the wheel, going absolutely NOWHERE, when you COULD get off and use what little brain power you have left to figure out the obvious solution to the political problem of the US.
But no--you'd rather escape that kind of work.
You deserve whatever you get.
Thank you Paul once again for a great post & ditto George C. Brown.
For those of you who still doubt the sincerity of John Edwards, please take a few minutes to read the letter below from Martin Luther King, III that so eloquently expresses why John is running.
January 20, 2008
The Honorable John R. Edwards
410 Market Street
Suite 400
Chapel Hill, NC 27516
Dear Senator Edwards:
It was good meeting with you yesterday and discussing my father's legacy. On the day when the nation will honor my father, I wanted to follow up with a personal note.
There has been, and will continue to be, a lot of back and forth in the political arena over my father's legacy. It is a commentary on the breadth and depth of his impact that so many people want to claim his legacy. I am concerned that we do not blur the lines and obscure the truth about what he stood for: speaking up for justice for those who have no voice.
I appreciate that on the major issues of health care, the environment, and the economy, you have framed the issues for what they are - a struggle for justice. And, you have almost single-handedly made poverty an issue in this election.
You know as well as anyone that the 37 million people living in poverty have no voice in our system. They don't have lobbyists in Washington and they don't get to go to lunch with members of Congress. Speaking up for them is not politically convenient. But, it is the right thing to do.
I am disturbed by how little attention the topic of economic justice has received during this campaign. I want to challenge all candidates to follow your lead, and speak up loudly and forcefully on the issue of economic justice in America.
From our conversation yesterday, I know this is personal for you. I know you know what it means to come from nothing. I know you know what it means to get the opportunities you need to build a better life. And, I know you know that injustice is alive and well in America, because millions of people will never get the same opportunities you had.
I believe that now, more than ever, we need a leader who wakes up every morning with the knowledge of that injustice in the forefront of their minds, and who knows that when we commit ourselves to a cause as a nation, we can make major strides in our own lifetimes. My father was not driven by an illusory vision of a perfect society. He was driven by the certain knowledge that when people of good faith and strong principles commit to making things better, we can change hearts, we can change minds, and we can change lives.
So, I urge you: keep going. Ignore the pundits, who think this is a horserace, not a fight for justice. My dad was a fighter. As a friend and a believer in my father's words that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, I say to you: keep going. Keep fighting. My father would be proud.
Sincerely,
Martin L. King, III
Of course, Reagan economics was at the mercy of Paul "squeeze the crap out inflation w/ up-up and away interest rates" Volcker. The gap between rich and poor did not really take off until Bush I and Sir Bubbles Greenspan took over. Clinton repealling the Glass-Steagall Act and some other regulations on Wall Street trading as he left office, coupled with Bush II spending for the phony war was the equivalent of pouring water on the wicked witch, and our economy is melt, melt, melting away.
When I heard Obama say that about Reagan, the man who removed the solar collectors from the White House roof before he'd been there two weeks, I was disgusted. It has steeled my determination to vote for Edwards.
Galen: I would like to share but given the absurdity of the situation, I need every little bit of it for myself. I find this election of the clones very difficult. Unlike other elections there is actually an abundance of choices, and yet it is as if they don't exist. Does anybody know that Mike Gravel is running and is excellent? No. You see, that's why I can't give you any.
Mr Gorbachev tear down that wall:
With this reckless statement, Ronald Regan,contributed to the demise of the first rational Russian leader to recognize the Soviet Union had to change, and was willing to work with us--all to the satisfaction of his unlearned & ignorant supporters.
The cold war was then over, and that wall would have disappeared anyway. Instead we had to deal with an uncontrolled array of break away states with little or no control, unemployed nuclear scientists, and uncontrolled security of their nuclear reserves.
The disasters resulting from his setbacks of essential environmental reforms will haunt us for decades or longer.
His trickle down economic theories can only be describved as witchcraft.
We are now witnessing repeat performances of such dreadful policies made possible by an apathetic/unlearned electorate and a defaulting legislature--only worse. DO we need another Regan or Bush II ??
Once again, we've got as Administration that's trying to treat a compound fracture with a "Band-Aid." Even the New Deal took quite a while for its economic programs to really work on our nation's recovery from the great depression - - and some say that WWII was what finally put that recovery over the top. The fact of the matter is that until we restructure the Tax Code from beginning to end, we will never free ourselves from the death grip of the greediest of the corporatizers. The folks behind Nixon's American Morning, Ronnie's Reagonomics and the Shrub's implementation of Cheney's and his Neo-Con cohorts Facistic/Junker Autocracy will continue to drive our nation into the ground until they are exposed for power and money hungry thugs that they are. It's time for the people and Populist economists to take the reins of government and work for peace, both politically and economically.
Ask me about the Reagan administration once we're done paying for it. All we've paid so far is the interest, and THAT has cost us $1 trillion since he left office.
Debt is always an easy thing to take care of, until you actually have to take care of it. Reagans share of todays debt is about $4 trillion. PAY IT, and then talk about what a great President he was.
Reagan was a great president. Listen to the people!
He made us feel good.
He said don't worry, I'll give you money, and he did! Economy improved.
He was aggressive, tough.
He stood up to the soviets and brought down their Empire.
He was tall, and 50,s handsome.
He increased the defense budget and made us the only superpower.
He kept us awake.
He was our sheriff, right out of the movies, come to make it all right. It was a great time!
He delivered his lines well in spite of having Alzheimer's. Is that a good trick, or what?
Behind the curtain is the truth, but we don't have to look there, do we?
Enough of this "Reagan made us feel good" BS! I cringed when he was elected-twice. He did huge damage to this country. The Reagan revolution sucked, and we are all still paying the price. But the way W has fucked up things, it makes Raygun look good!
The only times I have been unemployed in my life were 1) a year after Ray-Gun took office; 2) at the end of his first term; 3) the last year of Poppy-Bush's term 4) NOW, under the last year of Shrub's second term. In my personal experience, Raygunomics always sucked, and still does.
I only hope enough Americans wake up and quit electing these repug bastards.
I'm no fan of Dr. Phil, but it makes me think of his tagline; "How's that workin' for ya'?" It sure ain't workin' for me!
For Obama to be praising R. Reagan over Bil Clinton shows how he is still wet behind the ears. I have personal reasons to hate Reagan and as a democrat there's no way that I would praise a republican over a democrate even if it were true. From civil to human rights we have fought the racist republican party from the word go. What nerve, Obama can't lighr a candle to Jesse Jackson or many other african-americans that have fought for the right for him to be running against a Clinton. Maybe if he did something for his grandmother who lives in a mud hut with no running water in a village in Kenya he might start to be believeable. The republicans would have a field day talking about his father who was a member of the Luo tribe that is killing hundreds in Kenya. I'm just saying this out front because I know the dirty politics that will come into play. Remember "I didn't inhale"? Well, this guy did more than inhale and it's all being chacked up. I really believe that that is why he so proudly says he can cross the lines and have republicans voting for him REALLY. You dam right they're going to pour big bucks into his campaign. I don't want 4 or 8 more years of republican rule. Don't you think we've had enough? If Obama didn't have his head up in the clouds he would get behind a ticket that would take back the white house instead of wasting alot of money and peoples efforts for a pie in the sky. This guy doesn't sit right with me one bit. Enough said.
The more salient mechanism of our demise was the Democratic party's abandonment of the working/lower class; and its fixation on "the middle class".
Fast-forward to '08 and heretofore progressive voices like Krugman are unwitting flacks for Clintonian triangulation.
scruzn,
People vote Republican because the the Democrats are for the most part made weak or co-opted, as the case may be, by the same people that control the Republicans. It's a good cop bad cop thing. They have the American populace bouncing back and forth as if in a tennis match. But, ultimately, it's a very tiny court and there is no line dividing the two halves.
Change! How do we get from here to there? It's not going to be pretty nor will it be easy.
To effect change our next president is going to have to reach across party lines and build a working coalition from both parties and independent voters. It is to this I believe Obama was speaking in his reference to Reagan. (By inference we are supposed to see him as most capable.)
It is this which then begs the question of who among the current candidates is going to best be able to form that coalition and effect the change that is so necessary to save our country. This is truly what we need to ask ourselves for it is the 1000lb gorilla in the room.
Those who continue to promote the myth of a conservative Reagan are not conservatives. I base this on the agrument that for those who call themselves "Conservatives" here in the US, the term is tightly bound to economics. Reagan ran his government on borrowed money, as did all other Republican presidents of the 20th Century (maybe, with the exception of Eisenhower). The following is a retread of something I just finished writing.
"Conservative" is what? What we call a conservative here in the US is usually some form of "raptor capitalist", more a manifestation of social Darwinism than anything else. Ironically - the same people who preach social Darwinism to thinking right-wingers (sounds like an oxymoron), will have the Bible pounding religious right-wingers believe that said social Darwinists still believe the earth, universe, whatever is only 6K years old.
I am politically a "social democrat", of which Bernie Sanders is perhaps the only political specimen in the US. Economically, I am an archconservative. My only debt is the 10% value of my house (or maybe 14% or 18%, given the current deflation state of the last great US inflationary bubble, and we haven't even hit the "prime" wall yet) still owned by a lending institution. I have my own company (LLC - read small businessman), primarily to avoid taxes through expensing because it's perfectly legal. I don't make the laws - the people who I vote against do. I also own 2% of an oil well in Texas from which I receive income for 4-6 barrels of oil and 40-60 MCf gas per month. I have sold all my security holdings and nearly all my mutual fund holdings – I'm going to sit this one out, even if the value of the dollar reaches that of toilet paper. Better to have some toilet paper than nothing. I'll probably hold on to my oil well interest.
Will the oil and gas I help produce pollute the environment? Yes. I worry more about the pollution that will be caused by use of the remaining 200-300 years of coal deposits than by 60 more years worth of oil, and the residue of the A-reactors that will be built on into the future. If I were advising Bengiman Braddock today, I'd say: "Megawatt size wind generators". Will the world survive? I think so. It did the dying out during the Precambrian extinction and during the extinction caused by the catastrophic comet strike of 60M years ago. Homo sapiens may not, but cats probably will, and roaches certainly will.
I am an economic consevative. The evil cabal that supported Reagan and supported Bush, and still support Bush, are not.
The problem with Obama, and many Obama supporters don't get this, is not that he praised Reagan, it's that he agrees with Reagan on what the "excesses" of the sixties were. This is where he reveals his conservatism.
Reagan was wrong about the excesses, which were in fact mostly positive.
The real excesses were U.S. foreign policies that oppresses the Third World (bombing the crap out of Southeast Asia, using the CIA to subvert democracy all over the world, etc.) and harrassing social movements here at home (womens' movement, AIM, labor movement, antiwar movement, etc.). Those were the excesses and Obama and his supporters don't get it.
And on it goes. Has anybody here been in a discussion with the average Joe? It's amazing how many of them still believe the propaganda. Otherwise intelligent people just buy into it. They DO believe that Reagan's policies took until Clinton's 4th year to begin having an effect. But then, they also believe that the results of Roosevelt's new deal policies were actually attributable to the war.
I bought Krugman's new book, "Conscience of a Liberal" and it is excellent. There are some minor areas where I think he's wrong or over-dices, but overall it makes so much sense. A lot of it I already knew just from studying history and making the connections, but he provides much data to back it up.
When I told my step father (who hated Reagan for his gutting of environmental protections, if for no other reason) about the book he squinted painfully and asked "Isn't there a better term than 'liberal'?" He's very intelligent and when I suggested there is nothing wrong with the word other than the fact that we have allowed the conservatives to demonize it he understood. When the U.S. wants to "democratize" another government the first thing they (we?) do is liberalize the government. Then, of course, we make sure the choices for "elected" officials are all to our liking so they will sell their assets to our corporations, and ultimately after liberalization comes plutocracy.
vaudree January 21st, 2008 5:17 pm
> Nader2000 - you still blame Ralph Nader for Bush getting elected.
Nader's role in Bush's election is now part of history, which in time may be forgotten but does not change.
> Ok, my comment was a bit extreme but you are still the local devils advocate.
I was told the devil paid better. I was misled.
> It is still a choice between Clinton-Obama and Edwards.
No, Edward is running for veep. Probability of his winning the 1st spot at this point is approaching zero.
> And I doubt you like Edwards policies any more than you like Nader's.
Okay, this is what I wanted to respond to. First of all, neither Edwards nor Nader has any policies. Edwards has campaign promises and rhetoric, and Nader has just his own voice. If Edwards makes veep, and later wins the presidency, he'll have policies. Nader never will.
Now, I like what Edwards says he would do as president and I would like what Nader says he'd like to do even more. THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
The point is, the Dem. nominee is going to be either Obama or Clinton, and either one of them is going to be the next president or else it's going to be McCain, probably, or another Republican.
And, get this, the next president is going to have POLICIES.
POLICIES are real-world things. They affect people's actual lives and they affect what actually happens in this actual world we live in. Unlike Ralph Nader's pontifications or John Edwards's posturings and pleadings to the Left.
If you take a hard, realistic look at what the POLICIES of a President Obama would be as compared with a President Hillary Clinton or God help us President McCain or Huckabee, and if you have progressive values and ideas as I do, then there can be no question but that Barack Obama is the preferred candidate and our best hope for the next five years.
Actually, the closer you look at Obama, the more it is clear that he is very progressive, and since most people haven't figured that out and since he plays to the Center instead of posturing to the Left, invoking the rhetoric of unity and patiotism, I think it is likely that he will make a great president, the greatest since FDR, if Hillary doesn't succeed in strangling him first (and probably putting John McCain in the pilot's seat).
What time is the debate tonight?
I mean on CNN - not the one we are having right now as to whether the Clintons or Obama did the most to promote Reagan's legacy.
And I notice that no one has accused Edwards of being either in awe of Reagan's legacy or of trying to further Reagan's policies. I wonder why this is so!
(ok, not really)
Canadians tend to have a very negative view of Ronald Reagan. We wonder why you don't share it.
Everyone in America – regardless of the family you were born into, the color of your skin or the country your family came from – should have an equal chance for a better life." – John Edwards
Bush Jr. And Ronald Reagan Difference?
Reagan could read his script better the Bush.
As far as Obama's statement about The So Called Great Communicater?
Proof That Obama will do anything and say anything to be elected.
Now show me where Senator Clinton does the same thing.
You out there calling her a Corporate puppet.
I will put her pro citizen voting record with any of your heroes.
Is Senator Clinton is elected She will listen to the people. Show me where Reagan Or Bush ever did?
Anyone who calls Senator Clinton A Corporate Slave. I would love to find out how the poster makes his or her money. And when was the last time hhe or she stopped to help someone.
Or does he or she complain about High Taxes but overcharges others for his or her labor.
I believe these Senator Clinton Haters and Reagan have one huge thing in common . They want to keep us devided.
Senator Clinton Lets Hope
genaman
Yes Reaganomics failed regardless of the myth. But Reagan was also evil as well as being an economic failure. Right wing death squads, terrorists, dictators etc in South America were all fueled by the Reagan Administration. This is what he should be remembered for.
I would be curious to know why Mr. Krugman thinks Bill Clinton did NOT change the Reagan narrative. I think it was because his chief successes were NAFTA, welfare reform, GATT, farm deregulation, telecommunications deregulation, financial services deregulation an on and on. Clinton, as Alan Greenspan recently noted, was a great Republican.
At least Sen. Obama is talking about an opportunity to move the country in a new direction. With Sen. Clinton, I feel sure we will have another Republican presidency. It's is a roll of the dice I'm willing to make.
zoya wrote : This is grim. There is no candidate prepared to take on the failure of Reaganomics. Wow, this just goes to
prove that reality is what you think. If you think there are no candidates, even if there are, there aren't. It's the disease
known as tunnel vision. You know, seeing only what supports your argument while effectively ignoring the rest. Have
you even heard of Dennis Kucinich and the message he has been repeating for several years now. How can you say
no candidate is prepared to take on Reagan's failures? Zoya, your post is a fine example of fundamentalist thinking
which seems to be in vogue these days.
How can anyone vote republican after what they have done to our country????
Paul K has it right; Reagan's economic policies were a farce and the right never stops trying to rewrite that history. For me, as an old Berkeley grad from the 60's, the main recollection is that he was a mindless puppet who was afraid to set foot on the parent campus of the University of California. He was marvelous at delivering lines that were written for him but whenever he spoke from the cuff it was a disaster. He enjoyed droning on about his insipid acting career as if it were something real. He famously observed that once you had seen a redwood you had seen them all. Similarly, as he was cutting the budgets for mental health in California he quipped that the state hospital system was the biggest hotel chain he had ever seen. What a guy!
And of course, the biggest lie of all is that he defeated Communism single-handedly, when in fact he was a minor player.
Reaganomics, also known as "trickle down" economics, was then, and remains today, a sham/con to enrich the wealthy. When speaking of so-called "trickle down" economics, the late, progressive economist, John Kenneth Galbraith, gave this brilliantly apt analogy: "If you feed enough oats to the horse, the sparrow will survive on the highway." Additionally, he provided this analysis of the motivations of neo-liberal, neo-cons, such as Reagan and this current crop of consciousless candidates: "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
When Obama pays homage to Reagan for "offering a sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing," he gives credence to this ridiculous fantasy of "trickle down" economics and insults millions of ordinary, working class Americans who, through their taxes, unwittingly fund the neocon crime cabal. Any person who would have the mendacious audacity to credit Reagan for any dynamic contribution to this nation, with the exception of its narcissistic demise, has no business calling himself a progressive, a democrat, or U.S. President. Beware of Neocon Republicans wearing progressive Democratic clothing..... They're everywhere, especially in the 110th Congress and on the current presidential ballot. Remember, they are, first and foremost, ALL politicians.
Big D
Obama is just another big D democrat.
Nader2000 - you still blame Ralph Nader for Bush getting elected. Ok, my comment was a bit extreme but you are still the local devils advocate.
It is still a choice between Clinton-Obama and Edwards. And I doubt you like Edwards policies any more than you like Nader's.
"This is nothing but Ronald Reagan's 'trickle-down' nonsense gone global. It's George Bush's gibberish about a New World Order. Then came Bill Clinton, who is to a real Democrat what near beer is to beer. He has led the Democratic Party - once the proud political home of working folks - into an unholy alliance with Republicans and Wall Street lobbyists to embrace NAFTA, GATT, WTO, AFTA, CBI, MAI and other initials that spell 'gotcha' in all the Romance languages. They sell these deals by using the high-minded rhetoric of Free Trade! Jobs! Exports! Growth! Prosperity! and other come-ons. But every one of these trade agreements and structures rips more economic and political power out of our hands and conveys it on a silver platter to the elite club of international speculators, powerhouse bankers, corporate jefes, and other hustlers - men with smiling lips and squinting hearts." - Jim Hightower
excellent article for 2 points
1. obama had very calculated political objectives when he made the 'reagan' comment.
"Maybe Mr. Obama was, as his supporters insist, simply praising Reagan's political skills. (I think he was trying to curry favor with a conservative editorial board, which did in fact endorse him.) But where in his remarks was the clear declaration that Reaganomics failed?"
obama addressed this tonight in the SC debate clearly stating that he praised reagans political success (unity theme). However, he went on to point out that as an elected representative he opposed reagan's philosophy by voting against it. All of these candidates (including the candidate 'obama' that drew our attention b/c of a nyt's correspondent comments on ideological currents in presidential politics) to some degree represent the status quo. The fact that the economy is headed for a train wreck only emboldens the democrats chances of winning in the general election. This means any dem that wins gets bonus points with coattails. A major portion of the disaster will be pinned on the vest of the outgoing US president, enhancing the dems chances of winning in November.
this presents unique opportunities for the incoming president (perhaps the chance to override a veto, for example, 60 votes in the senate would enable a president to support legislation as it works it way through all the current channels of congress). I think obama can handle this. I believe ms rodham clinton is more beholden to the corporate sponsors of her husband (as is reflected in her own child's profession, hedge funds?) and that personal resentments for numerous reasons (including a legitimate point that America doesn't deserve dynastic rule) will come to the surface that will prevent a clinton presidency from drawing the ire (perhaps well deserved) of the conservative right.
Isn't it bizarre that neither edwards (the kingfisher) nor obama (the comprimiser) are willing to call a spade a spade and question the legitimacy of 32 years of two family rule in America. Why isn't this a legitimate debating point? Instead we get guess who's coming to dinner.
It's true obama and clinton have similar voting records in the senate, which is praised as being more progressive the sen Edwards voting record; despite that edwards is from a conservative part of the country north Carolina who of course elected Elizabeth dole.
All three of these candidates will be beholden to the interests of corporate America.
So senator edwards, clinton or obama will represent the dems in the general. (yes you can vote for dennis, in fact based on his voting record he is the most appropriate candidate for this moment in history, but he will not be elected, b/c the system has always been rigged. But obama can defeat clinton, and he's a relative unknown. he's a product of both richy dailey's chicago and the arcane obtruse nature of the illinois legislature (which is prone to compromise). Which explains his unity theme and conciliatory politics. But strategically it's calculated and the unity theme will give obama incredible strength in the general when he will easily convince moderate republicans (chuck hegel, etc) in the general to support him. Polling suggest obama would be a more effective candidate than clinton in the general. does this scenario appear to be progressive ? no. is there a viable progressive solution ? I'm all ears but as I've noted earlier a 3rd party campaign has never been effective in the general election (1912, 27% vote, 2nd place). Therefore its TINA (there is no alternative) or ABC (anyone but Clinton) ;which isn't necessarily progressive is it? Actually I believe obama is more of an unknown in the equation. The DLC is clearly supporting Clinton (the doomed candidate that represents imperial designs), bill Clintons obnoxious comments suggest this as does hillary's aggressive name calling tonight in the debate (a lot of which was focused on obama…. Hmmm first serious African American candidate, first primary with significant African American vote…….hmmmm, gotta wonder why the black guy has to explain his 4,000 votes in the state legislature to a candidate who never held political office until it was purchased for her with presidential credits from her husband's career.) 'liberal' politicians like leahy, feingold, kerry have supported obama. These are politicians who are more 'progressive' based on their voting records then the average American (1 of the 2 voters in America who voted for bush last time remember red/blue?). Also, they are privy to the club (congress), and understand these people on more personal level (hopefully as our elected officials, right?). leahy, fiengold, kerry (and indeed kucinich with his nod in IA) represent the established left wing of the democratic party. The educated affluent democratic voter in new hampshire who voted for obama. I believe these people, people who serve on congressional committees in our names ( remember fiengolds criticism of gongalez) are offended with the DLC's choice (ala bill) and are expressing their angst by supporting ABC. Theres a rift in the party. It is about race politics and basically payback, rightfully so. The fact is the president will have little control over historical facts (there will be very serious issues India/Pakistan, Kurdistan, nuclear proliferation, environmental degradation, skyrocketing inflation , but who ever the president will be will respond accordingly to training. Both Edwards and obama meet the criteria (trial lawyer, editor of the Harv law review-constituional law lecturer). There was a great photo today in the nyt's of hillary and bill on an airplane. If you look closely at the perspective (kinda like you were looking at a replica of devinci's last supper) you'll see that everyone on the plane , the reporters, hilary is staring at bill.
2. Professer Krugman's honesty evaluation of he Clinton years.
"It's not just a matter of what happens in the next election. Mr. Clinton won his elections, but - as Mr. Obama correctly pointed out - he didn't change America's trajectory the way Reagan did. Why? Well, I'd say that the great failure of the Clinton administration - more important even than its failure to achieve health care reform, though the two failures were closely related - was the fact that it didn't change the narrative, a fact demonstrated by the way Republicans are still claiming to be the next ronald reagan."
george bush and his myriad supporters will assume political responsibility for the economic crisis that's transpiring (as they did when voters in 2006 used an anti war platform to harken in more dem seats in the congress). The future president will deal with it, all of us will suffer under austere economic policies (ala milton friedman). i'm not moving to new Zealand. but absent a violent revolution which none of the scribes here seems to have the stomach for????
My supervisor at work is 27 years old, his black and has an 8 month old child. He has college education and he knows in his gut obama would be a good candidate. Is it because he's black. Of course, do his feelings have merit. Absolutely. Of the only 2 viable candidates running for president, obama has to justify himself Clinton, Edwards, bush all seem to get a pass. Why?
American idol? Wake up we're (kucinich/edwards supporters) in the minority. It is realpolitik.
Little Brother January 21st, 2008 12:05 pm
interesting post...
as for infiltraters of progressive sites? please. this is public space and we're not having a cup of tea or coffee, you do not know what my political resume is in terms of resistance to empire. the point is, if we can't honestly talk about the state of our politics (even if it is american idol) what's the point (lying to ourselves?). this is reality.
vote your conscience, i'll meet you in the streets of denver, but if at the end of the day edwards/kucinich does not have the delegates at the convention, please encourge them to pledge their delegates to the obama campaign.
I thought Reagan was an idiot and I was in middle school when he was elected. In grade 8, a friend and I wrote a song for the occassion: "We Don't Need No Ronald Reagan" to the tune of that Pink Floyd song that was a popular favorite with 1980s eighth graders.
I am not informed enough here to go into this, but did anyone read Bitter Fruit?
We're responsible for terrible things which took place in Central America, certainly under Reagan. Now we have airports named after men who perpetrated crimes against humanity- Reagan, Dulles, Bush, et al.
It just makes me very very sorry.
Lizard: Please share your recreational medication with the rest of us.
I was still an instructor at a community college in Central Florida when RWR was prez. We had a new music director who was pro-Reagan, which kind of stunned me, but he was a decent fellow. I remember him saying to me that I had to admit Reagan had done some good things, to which I replied, "Like what?" I never got an answer to the question.
I'm still waiting for Obama to clarify what he was talking about, because that clarification matters very much, and for precisely the reasons outlined in this excellent piece by Paul Krugman.
I remember Reagan's rise quite well, it was the creepiest free-ride ANY American politician BEFORE OR AFTER has ever had from the Corporate Media (CM). The man continually hosed working- and middle-class Americans, while King George pulled strings in the background, and the CM NEVER called them on it. If it weren't for the alternative voices on the internet now, I have no doubt that the corporate media would be calling King George II Jesus H. Christ on earth, incapable of failure, walking on water in every respect.
dougnwagner will watch the video as soon as I get off here.
RE: - There is no candidate prepared to take on the failure of Reaganomics.
Reaganomics was not just in the United States, but was practiced by Ronnie's close friends Margaret Thatcher and Brian Mulroney as well. Isn't it Bushit's adherence to the principles of Reaganomics - High military spending, slashing of social programs, high tax cuts to the rich - partially responsible for the mess that Americans are finding themselves in now?
What does Edwards say about Reaganomics? Has anyone asked him?
RE: - One part of the legacy of the Reagan era was a change in our vocabulary. Workers used to be described as workers. The word "consumer" was substituted for worker during the Reagan years.
Controlling minds involved both controlling the interpretation of history and controlling the use of language. What is the difference between being a consumer and being a worker? Do they have the same needs? If they are the same person, one would think so, but the "consumer" is the business friendly portions of the same person - and the "worker" is decidedly not as business friendly.
RE: - Workers are fundamentally the producers of our society, and it is insulting to refer to them as consumers.
But didn't Romney tell the people of Michigan that it is the Corporations (and not the workers) which are the producers of society? McCain told the truth about the jobs being gone and not coming back, but those who vote Repug prefer something a bit more cheerful and positive than the truth (which can be so darned negative!).
RE: - Obama praised Reagan? / That's like Uncle Tom thanking Massa' fo' the whippin' he just got.
Pretty much. Though since AOL viewers chose Reagan as the "Greatest American" - they must be a nation of Leopold von Sacher-Masochs. Don't blame me, I voted for Rosa Parks.
'When Irish eyes are smilin' sure tis steal your heart away'
And who did CBC viewers choose as the Greatest Canadian again?
RE: - It's down to Clinton vs. Obama.
Note that it is our local champion of Reaganomics himself - Nader2000 - who is telling us this. I think his team must be afraid of Edwards.
RE: - Only the winners get to write history.
Which makes history less historical and more fiction.
RE: - Obama said that Ronnie Reagan was an answer to the excesses of the 60s & 70s. Makes me wonder if his parents had too much excessive sex back in those days.
I wish it was just that! The "excesses" of those decades seems to be the focus on human rights and workers rights. Of course those fat cats figured the mice were getting uppity - and that is the first chapter in the history of FTA/NAFTA.
BTW - I know why Canadians don't like NAFTA, but didn't Americans get a better deal out of it than we did?
Reagan's 'trickledown economics' was just the corporations pissing on our heads...
Thanks for the historical realism. Although Reagan was "charming" (apparently or so they say - frankly, it never worked for me), it's been nothing but "trickle down economics" ever since, just changing the buzzwords now and then, as tax loopholes and legislation that favors large corporations and wealthy individuals keeps that tap wide open. Somehow the sponges on top keep soaking it all up and the gap between rich and poor just grows.
JOHN R HALL: "The Age of Aquarius" is only beginning, and just as an ocean liner changing course must meet the resistance of the waters to do so, we are hardly yet into the swing of it!
I totally agree about the 60's/70's being a spiritual revolution. For my own sanity I prefer to think of this phase as the opening of a seed. It's been PLANTED and as demonstrated by the life of most seeds, remains UNDERGROUND to safely build up its root structure before rising above the tangible sphere of earth.
The many ecology groups, writers of conscience, protest movements, peace-justice advocates, true artists (who know their gift is intended to raise human consciousness, if not lifestyles for those in need) and songwriters are manifestations of the force that began to come to life in that amazing epoch. A lot of us chose to incarnate to participate in that, probably forgetting the recidivistic wave we'd have to encounter... which is what is occuring now. All things follow wave, cyclic motion so this, too, shall pass. WE must carry the light to retain its cathartic power to bring the changes we hold in our ideals.
Let's not discuss Ronald Reagan without giving mention to the Shamrock Summit - strange how Canadians cringe at the singing of "When Irish Eyes are Smilin'" - and they included that plus the sad consequence of Reaganomics in the video of his death:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/06/05/reagandead_040605.html
(links don't work because of crash but video still does)
And let us not forget how Ronnie Reagan's close personal friend Brian Mulroney is doing these days:
Mulroney's testimony on Thursday December 13:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071212/mulroney_te...
It is possible that Reagan's hands are clean. But how many people who have close friends taking money in paper envelops in hotel rooms have close friends with clean hands!
MC DEE: Right on!
Obama said that Ronnie Reagan was an answer to the excesses of the 60s & 70s. Makes me wonder if his parents had too much excessive sex back in those days. The Age of Aquarius was as close to an age of enlightenment as anyone alive today is likely to see. Those of us in the anti war movement learned to question authority and that civil disobedience is a right and a duty. We ended The Vietnam War by SINGING LOUD in three part harmony with feelin'. Too bad so many young people today are blinded by the promise of Wall Street and the so-called American Dream.