World Must Fix Climate In Less Than 10 Years: UN
BRASILIA - Unless the international community agrees to cut carbon emissions by half over the next generation, climate change is likely to cause large-scale human and economic setbacks and irreversible ecological catastrophes, a United Nations report says on Tuesday.
The U.N. Human Development Report issues one of the strongest warnings yet of the lasting impact of climate change on living standards and a strong call for urgent collective action.
“We could be on the verge of seeing human development reverse for the first time in 30 years,” Kevin Watkins, lead author of the report, told Reuters.
The report, to be presented in Brasilia on Tuesday, sets targets and a road map to reduce carbon emissions before a U.N. climate summit next month in Bali, Indonesia.
Emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere help trap heat and lead to global warming.
“The message for Bali is the world cannot afford to wait, it has less than a decade to change course,” said Watkins, a senior research fellow at Britain’s Oxford University.
Dangerous climate change will be unavoidable if in the next 15 years emissions follow the same trend as the past 15 years, the report says.
To avoid catastrophic impact, the rise in global temperature must be limited to 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit (2 degrees Celsius). But carbon emissions from cars, power plants and deforestation in Brazil, Indonesia and elsewhere, are twice the level needed to meet that target, the U.N. authors say.
Climate change threatens to condemn millions of people to poverty, the UNDP says. Climate disasters between 2000 and 2004 affected 262 million people, 98 percent of them in the developing world. The poor are often forced to sell productive assets or save on food, health, and education, creating “life-long cycles of disadvantage.”
A temperature rise of between 5.4 and 7.2 degrees Fahrenheit (3 and 4 degrees Celsius) would displace 340 million people through flooding, droughts would diminish farm output, and retreating glaciers would cut off drinking water from as many as 1.8 billion people, the report says.
In Kenya, children 5 or younger are 50 percent more likely to be malnourished if they were born during a drought year, affecting their life-long health and productivity.
Countries have the technical ability and financial resources but lack the political will to act, the report says. It singles out the United States and Australia as the only major Western economies not to sign the Kyoto Protocol, an agreement signed by 172 countries to reduce emissions. It expires in 2012.
Ethiopia emits 0.1 metric tons of carbon dioxide per capita, compared to 20 metric tons in Canada. U.S. per capita emissions are over 15 times those of India’s.
PROPOSED ROAD MAP
The world needs to spend 1.6 percent of global economic output annually through 2030 to stabilize the carbon stock and meet the 3.6-degree Fahrenheit temperature target. Rich countries, the biggest carbon emitters, should lead the way and cut emissions at least 30 percent by 2020 and 80 percent by 2050. Developing nations should cut emissions 20 percent by 2050, the UNDP says.
“When people in an American city turn on their air-conditioning or people in Europe drive their cars, their actions have consequences … linking them to rural communities in Bangladesh, farmers in Ethiopia and slum dwellers in Haiti,” the report says.
The UNDP recommends a series of measures including improved energy efficiency for appliances and cars, taxes or caps on emissions, and the ability to trade allowances to emit more. It said an experimental technology to store carbon emissions underground was promising for the coal industry, and suggested technology transfer to coal-dependent developing countries like China.
An international fund should invest between $25 billion and $50 billion annually in low-carbon energy in developing countries.
Asked whether the report was alarmist, Watkins said it was based on science and evidence: “I defy anybody to speak to the victims of droughts and floods, like we did, and challenge our conclusions on the long-term impact of climate disasters.”
(Editing by Mohammad Zargham)
© 2007 Reuters
Lets just tell it like it is and see what humanity is capable of.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Hey, apparently I have been correct about something. One out of ten ain’t bad.
I know what i am trying to do and i am working on it. It is more than just talking, but if we can talk instead of “fight” than that is a first step.
Peace is what we need.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
The world economy is a capitalist economy that can stay afloat only by continual expansion, so there is not a chance on earth that global carbon emissions can be cut 1/2 as needed. We are in big trouble because the world is nowhere ready to deal with this crisis with what is needed.
Oh, they’ll be cut by these amounts in about this time frame, bet on it. The question is, will we choose how to do the cutting or will it be forced on us, and the cuts come from local to global collapse?
The economy can dominate the ecology only as long as the ecology keeps functioning. Since externialities like fresh water, air, arable soil, etc are not in the economy, as soon as these stop being free the economic assumptions also collapse and then it’s a question of whether our political and social structures can change as quickly as our environment. That, I would not like to bet on.
Craig
There is most definitely a “chance on earth”. You do not know what you are talking about. You don’t know the future so why are you trying to dismiss some hopeful ideas. Some of these ideas are only going to happen if folks start recognizing the possibilities instead of just griping about what is wrong.
Lets just drop the capitalist economy. There that is a chance.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
I just bought a Lotto ticket, ___ I have a ‘chance’. There is also a “chance” Bush will admit he was wrong about Iraq and resign.
Ten years is a very brief time period, one day our kids are ten years old, and before we know it, they are driving our cars, pregnant, or marrying their high school math teacher and are graduate nuclear scientists.
KEM PATRICK - that was the best laugh i’ve had in awhile.
Of course, when things get “nuclear” a lot can happen in 10 years.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Charlotte, NC
son of a navy commander….
Hi Ken, how ya doin? When the qualified scientists combine the words dramatic, irreversable and catastrophic, I have their rapt attention.
Kem - I just want you to know, that i have appreciated all your input in these many conversations.
The times are upon us. Don’t you think?
Me, as a younger fella, i’m going to try to start my own business again. Anyhow, kem - Peace.
Ken Hausle
Charlotte, NC
There are so many benefits from using alternatives to fossil fuels and any one of them is a good enough reason to do so. I think that people are starting to realize this and are looking for leadership in themselves to make this happen.
A simple change has to happen first in the heads of folks that have lost the connection to the “Mother” Earth! Make the “Mother” sacred once again and we may have a chance. And this is not about male female either, rather our “Mother” Earth and all her children and what is really sacred. Maybe we should worship “Life” rather than some long dead male figure, seems to make more sense. And this coming from a male………
The last two commentors were spot on. Of course as noted, our world leaders have ten years, maybe less, some highly respected scientists fear we have already passed the point of no return.
but the corporatists want to be able to charge you for your ration of potable water, breathable air and rent/mortgage under the UV shield dome. can’t afford it? too bad. out into the desert with you.
Been watching to many movies my friend, no-one gets out of this one. There will be a new world order, you can bet on that, with or without us.
The biosphere in Arizona was a flop. We’re all gonna die, ___ eat drink and feel Merry.
.
.
.
BTW, Merry is a Playboy centerfold.
To paraphrase another era in our history, “The People fiddled while Earth burned.”
Here’s the problem with this 10 year horizon. Measured the way the people with the power count these things, that’s 40 fiscal quarters. Says the average CEO, “That is a really long time to raise my earnings per share, get my options fully vested, and then, bang, a nine figure golden handshake when I walk out the door. I’ll have enough money that I could air condition Hell, let alone my three houses.”
And THAT dear boys and girls was the tipping point we have been warned about. Ten years is the flick of an eye in both biological and geological time.
The Acrtic IS melting. So is the Antarctic. Tropical storms ARE increasing in number and severity. Weather patterns are shifting. The Gulf Stream is slowing and cooling.
And there isn’t a damn thing we can do but try to minimise the damage to human civilization. We are standing in the path of a runaway multi-billion ton heat engine.
Now is the time to shut down the failed experiment of corporatisation, of consumer culture, and go back to living in a small scale, close to the land. Keep those technologies absolutely vital to human health, ditch the rest.
Make copies of truely vital information and laminate them, so our decendants will not have to re-discover simple things all over again.
Good luck people.
Only three VINLANDER? A piker of a CEO.
Air condition Hell? I dunno, but Tammy Faye and Jim baker had an air conditioned $8,000 dog house. Cheney is their type.
If it said we had 100 years we would still be doomed. The worst part is when the polar bears are sinking to the bottom of the ocean and the penguins burst into fire balls at the south pole, people will still be denying global warming. Sigh…
Did you know that all polar bears are left pawed? The solitary males also often have an arctic fox for a travelling companion.
Oops ___ different subject there.
All this hopelessness is not only tiresome, but at some “point” it becomes self-fulfilling. If you are hopeless, why don’t you just keep it to yourself. But if you must share your despair, it makes me think you are not really hopeless.
Anyhow, some of us want to find solutions and in my humble opinion, the incredible amount of energy that can be unleashed “nuclearly” can go both ways. We have already witnessed the chaotic way. There is an orderly way where things can change rapidly. Don’t you think?
Peace,
Ken Hausle
imagine the clean power generated if…
windmills lined the median strip of every interstate highway
all the area covered by suburbia were covered with solar panels instead
coastal cities floated a few dozen simple mechanical tidal generators
unfortunately the corporate coal & oil lobby will never, ever allow it
what a shame
stinger_28 - yes so it has been.
BUT, maybe it can change. Maybe.
That is my hope and hope is free for all.
Peace
As I have mentioned before on this site, the solution is available right now. It would cost very little up front and create an economic boom a la the New Deal.
The crisis needs to be tackled with a broad portfolio: energy conservation, better gas mileage, gas/carbon/energy taxation, increased public transport, better city planning, wind power, solar power, climate treaties, geothermal, biofuels, carbon sequestration and, yes, some nuclear power. If we implement all these strategies, the planet survives.
The Apollo Alliance has studied this in detail, and has a detailed plan of how to do it: http://www.apolloalliance.org/ Yes, we’re up against Big Oil and the military machine, but this can be done. We have the technology!
I have reduced my driving by 90 percent by getting a new job close to my home and by using the subway to commute to work.
I take lights off whenever I am not using them, especially when I leave my house.
I hardly buy bottled water anymore because of the use of plastic bottles that are made from petroleum.
So much more can be done, especially by our government and corporations.
Hey, Stinger_28, you’ve been reading my mind! Particularly “coastal cities float a few dozen simple mechanical tidal generators…” working models of which have already been deployed off the English coast. This is a real sleeper in the energy field. As is geothermal, using heat exchangers. In fact, we already HAVE all the technology we need to stop burning fossil fuels.
And bidelo, thanks for mentioning the Apollo Alliance. It amazes me that this group, which has had detailed plans on alternative energy for years now, seems to be unknown to most Commondreams readers. Hope they follow your link.
Lastly, know why I’m optimistic that this “revolution” will be done? Because there’s money to be made. Pick up today’s paper and there’s bound to be an article about some corporation getting “green.” Even though the bucks look plentiful in coal/oil/gas right now, those CEOs have already seen the handwriting on the wall.
I’ve heard it said that we will run out of uranium within 50 years at current usage. Now I understand that not nearly as much effort has been spent looking for uranium than has been spent looking for oil. But lets say they’re wrong and we have 1000 years of usable uranium. At current usage, so we need to build 20 times more reactors across the world so we can obtain an appreciable amout of power from nukes. So we’re back to 50 years agian. Who knows, maybe there really is an unlimited supply that will last until the end of time. We can’t figure out how to safely store the nuclear trash we have now so that doesn’t sound like such a very good idea.
If we can figure out how to make fusion work, we could probably figure out how to get rid of that nuke trash.
But none of it really matters, in the long run we’re gone. Unless you believe in heaven or nirvana, if we don’t kill ourselves off the sun will bake us when it’s fuel starts to run low.
It would be so much nicer to say that we lasted until the sun went red giant, but then again, there won’t be anyone around to say how stupid we were.
nondescript - what can be said about u after you say “in the long run we’re gone”? I’d say you are nondescript.
You know just the other day i was talking with someone in america and they said something about IQ. I said i would much rather have love than IQ.
Stupidity is relative.
Peace is not.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Did anyone see any mention of the planet being overpopulated with the human species. If every one would realize that overpopulation is causing all these adverse effects and that we could really get close to the 10 year goal if we would just quit having children for 10 years. Along with natural deaths that would probably get close. But wait that would be to easy. Besides all your investments in housing and stocks would probably become pretty near worthless. On second thought lets just keep pretending that technology is going to save our asses and keep on consuming and expanding.
Laffingbear: Watch the film ‘Children of Men’ for a good idea of what the general population would go through if there was an enforced ban on human births. Maybe Larry Niven was right when he predicted UN peacecorps conducting ‘Mother Hunts’ of illegal preganancies that violated population control measures…
The gravest danger is that some environmentalist Einstein will develop environmentalist theories and science to such an extent, someone will be able to make an environmentalist weapon of war out of what has been learned.
Knowledge is a dangerous thing.
It is the science that is always the danger.
Scientists build knowledge sets.
Humanity driven by human nature uses these knowledge sets to wage “moral” wars. Does that ring a bell, Dinga-Ling?
And environmentalists are not scienitific moral monks. These environmental scientists are not the “good guys”.
Environmental scientists are right now tinkering and building a knowledge base in a science that is EXACTLY about the destruction of the planet, your planet, the one and only planet upon which human life is known to exist, or likely to exist.
Given history, any sane person would say, “Don’t go there.”
Science is witchcraft.
Listen up all you stinkin’ believers in the religion of science!
There are no empirical messiahs.
StarTrek is a fictional story. You are not going anywhere.
Humanity’s only moral hope is lassoing all these lying, “amoral” scientists who calim they have all the answers, and who immorally want to make our lives so much better, but who nonetheless universally have ALWAYS MADE LIFE MUCH, MUCH WORSE.
Don Robertson, The American Philosopher
Racheal Carson was a scientist, Jacques Costeau was a scientist, George Washington Carver was a scientist, Nspire who blogs here is a scientist, are and were they witches too?
We are all going somewhere Don, where of course is the great mystery.
Don Robertson - this is just your opinion.
The People will choose.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Charlotte, NC
Hey Ike, thanks for your mention, but i can’t read all your capital BS.
It is not necessary to scream, I have a hearing aid. I am delighted to know, that my opinions, based upon scientific accounts of people who have spent ther entire adult lives studying the problem, are wrong.
~We have nothing to fear but idiots themselves~. ___ By Snakeshit.
Thank you for offering a diverse and argumentative opinion, in such a polite manner IKE.
Hmmmm, ten years. That’s a dem presidency, sabatoged by the ‘63 junta, followed by two terms of scorched earth repubican presidents, and I do mean, scorched earth… Think this country has the moral courage to face the biggest challenge facing the human race since the rise of the axis powers? When the powers that be - cannot depart from their GROWTH IS GOOD paradigm?
I weep for my grand daughter.
jjpeter - i weep for my grandchildren that are not even born yet, but nonetheless, i am going to hold onto hope.
Peace, and signing out for the evening:
Ken Hausle
When I wrote this, I was thinking of Iraq. Then I got to thinking about the world in general. Now I am not so sure about even that.
—————————————
It Will Go On
The red, setting sun, casts long shadows of the rocks and hills.
When the guns are silent and the napalm has burned out,
The desert still exists, silent save for the susurration of the sand
Blown by the winds, slowly covering the wounds of war.
Forgotten monuments again becoming homes and shelter.
Small creatures creep out in the gathering stillness
To carry on their own lives, eating and being eaten
In the long dance that predates man and will continue long after.
As the climates change, volcanoes and tsunamis rend the land and shore,
With the melting of the ice the seas rise; temperate zones become steppes
Encased in permafrost. Man’s vaunted civilization may crumble away.
Man, himself, may run crying into the limbo that holds the dinosaurs.
The desert, silent save for the susurration of the sand, will still exist.
The red, setting sun, will cast long shadows of the rocks and hills.
Small creatures will creep out in the gathering stillness
To carry on their own lives, eating and being eaten as they always have…
Steve Osborn
21 November 2005
—————————————
As I’ve said before, it may be that the forgotten footprints and piles of junk on the moon may simply be our mark to whatever may set foot there in the far future, saying “Kilroy was here.”
10 years is a scare tactic. The north ocean’s ice cap is as good as gone, and the West Antarctic ice cap could easily fall apart just like the Larsen Ice Shelf did in a 3 week period.
Laffingbear wrote at 4:04PM about our ceasing to breed as a form of emergency climate repair. No doubt that would help in the near term.
But even better, think of it as the most radical form of consumer boycott.
Gee, I took the time to go back and read all of the posts here, a very interesting read too, lots of good comments. What ones were the ones where I was giving mis-information on, could you be a bit more specific there IKE KAY?
For example, I got that polar bear info from a well written book about polar bears, which was written by a man who studied them for several years. And those scientists I mentioned were real people who were wonderful scientists. Then what I wrote about the Bakers is accurate. On the actual subject matter, it is clear that most here agree with me and Ken. Why are you picking on us? Do we have bad breath or something?
If you have a different opinion on the subject, just write it, don’t get personel, unless someone attacks you for no good reason. This is a forum to learn from one another, not to be an ignorant prick.
safiyyah November 27th, 2007 12:42 pm :’The world economy is a capitalist economy that can stay afloat only by continual expansion, so there is not a chance o earth that global carbon missions can be cut 1/2 as needed.’
So true. Without this carbon and nitrogen producing ‘economic growth’, our population growth (from 3 billion in the 1960s to 6 billion now) cannot be sustained.
Perhaps we should come at this problem from the opposite direction: lower population growth so that we can afford to lower economic growth. The stone cold fact is, if we do not do it by family planning, Nature will do it for us by funeral planning.
No more sex, everyone celebate.
Well - this convinces me about my preferred ticket for 2008 - Gore/Kucinich. May be our only hope (and a slim one at that).
Anyone else been having trouble logging in today?
10 years? Phew…I was afraid that Bush’s ‘forever’ war would never end. I wonder what all our bible thumpers will do after they have destroyed the Earth. As I recall that Jewish prophet, hay Zeus, said that the ‘kingdom of heaven’ is on the Earth but our ‘christians’ can’t see it.
One way I personally help young people grow up with a love of the earth is by being a scoutmaster.
I lead hikes on city trails. I lead overnighters. I help boys turn into competent outdoorsmen.
Let me recommend renewed vigor in volunteering in youth groups like scouts, 4H, etc. that stimulate a love of nature.
http://www.unconventionalideas.com
Lester Brown, whom some call the father of the environmental movement, has written a book which describes how we have all the technological and financial instruments that we need, and all the money required, to reduce our carbon emissions on the planet to a sustainable level. It is a wonderful resource for those who are looking for constructive hope in the face of these daunting climate change realities. The current edition is called Plan B 2.0, but Plan B 3.0, the latest edition, will be coming out in January and can be pre-ordered now. It was a wonderful education for a layperson such as myself, and I recommend it.
Who cares? Our military will control the oil supply and we’ll just crank up the AC and ride around in our SUVs and cool off in the sea, of which there will be much more. What’s the problem? George HW Bush told us that our way of life was not up for negotiation, didn’t he?
BIRD FLU — There. I said it. That is the solution to global warming. Cut the population in half. If human’s can’t manage themselves, nature will do it for them.
DU works too.
The Cristian fundies in my area are still breeding like minks.(10-12 kids in a family all taught that god has everything in control)
Wouldn’t want to piss god off by using birth control.
So I guess it’s :praise the lord and fuck the planet!
Bush is doing both, quite well too.
Anyone remember the Y2K hoax? Okay, it wasn’t really a hoax, but man was it hyped. I remember it ’cause I was part of it…as a programmer, not a hoaxter. Spent many a day coding date changes, testing, re-testing, and certifying.
Does anyone remember the predictions of the end of life as we know it? Yup, have the t-shirt for that one. And, we’re all still here on our computers that were supposed to have failed.
Folks, let’s get a grip. No one, absolutely no one, knows how long or how severe the effects of climate change will be. These are educated predictions. Things are bad, very bad, but doing nothing but hawking the end of the world will do us absolutely no good. Failure is not an option here and we are all needed in this endeavor. How about we get off our warming asses and change our own lives? The effects of that is something we can predict with a good amount of certainty!
Jacques Costeau, a Frenchman, an author, scientist, inventor, explorer, enviromentalist, a teacher, navigator, pilot and a wonderful parent, gave us fair warning in his book, “The Ocean World”, which he penned in the 1970s. He stated that we had ‘hope’, if we would stop polluting the oceans and begin to clean up our messes immediately. He gave us approx 100 years time. We ignored his warnings.
Of course, he didn’t dream we would ever use DU for ammunition and spread that deadly, radioactive waste all over the planet. That 100 years is going to get here much faster than a hundred years should. Nuclear waste was one of his major concerns. The French people did not appreciate that great son of theirs to any degree and they now have 56 nuclear power plants in operation and are ‘rumored’ to have dumped tons of nuclear waste in the oceans, as have other nations. It is cheaper than storing it, as is using it for bullets and bombs. All that is necessary there, is to convince the unwary, the ignorant and undereducated, that DU is perfectly harmless. As Billy pointed out, the economics is of most importance. Of course it is. Has anyone ever though about why insurance companies refuse to insure atomic power plants? __ Guess why. __ Yeah, some have thought of it.
We better get the governments of this planet to agree with you IAMMYSELF. It is going to have to be an immediate, MAJOR, group effort. Our government leaders are mostly concerned with getting elected or re-elected and puttig their snouts in the hog troth and wallowing in the dirt of politics as usual in DC.
ruscle is right.
What we need to do is reduce the world’s population. There are too many people, stupid.
We need to eliminate 90% of the world’s population immediately. A lottery wont cut it. Folks waiting for Rapture will be disappointed. I advocate a really nasty pandemic, say ebola. Yeah, its going to hurt.
Climate Change = Wonderful Opportunities building walls, dikes, forts, fences, cages, prisons, dams, pipelines, canals… We’re going to make LOTS OF MONEY. Everything is made from CONCRETE, which consumes MASSIVE volumes of fossil fuels. INVEST IN FOSSIL FUELS and take some of the rewards for yourself!!!
Let’s not give in completely to the doom and gloom good people. Do you know a jellyfish-like creature thrives in polar oceans where the ice has melted? They’re called ’salp’ and they filter carbonic acid out of the water and turn it into solid black CO2 turds that sink to the bottom of the sea.
2. There is a company in Tucscon that has invented a CO2 vacuum cleaner. They plan to use geothermal power in Iceland and other places to filter CO2 out of the air. We’ll all have to pay .25 cents more per gallon of gas to get the system profitable enough to do, but all of us on this website know that people will spend money to protect their assets and their asses. A lot of rich folks live near the ocean and they don’t want to lose their property.
3. Paul Crutzen, Nobel Prize winning scientist who helped us see the CFC/ozone hole connection advocates the use of sulfate distribution over the poles to reflect back enough sun so that we can stabilize the globe’s fever, get these carbon sequestration systems scaled up, and bring CO2 and methane parts per million back down to healthy levels.
4. Of course, will people vote for a 25 cent increase in gas taxes? Probably not in time unless people advocate effectively for it. Doing conservation and CO2 reductions is not enough. It’s like taking your foot off the accelerator and hoping the speeding vehicle will stop on its own as its rolling downhill thanks to positive feedback loops. Reducing our carbon footprints and scaling up carbon capture is our last, best hope. I hope that the yedoma doesn’t start to thaw out all at once.
everybody should be science literate and we are not enough skilled and literate.
If you can imagine 4 molecules of carbon dioxide in the air- one of those four has been made by human activity since the invention of the machine in the 19th century. It takes 100 years to get rid of the carbon dioxide once it is out there.
the carbon dioxide dissolves in the ocean and it makes it more acidic and then sea shells will not be able to be formed.
Bill Bradley said he had figured it out and if everybody drives those cars that get 45 miles per hour- I had one of those in 1965 and I loved it- drove a lot with it well if we still made these cars today then we would not need to import any oil at all and make a good start on the carbon belching. Those who insist on Hummers would have to pay a fine.
Also Kinnibunkport is sporting a windmill- why is that- because daddy Bush thinks that there will be a power outage and he will have his own energy- now the rich people will not be able to get away and isolate themselves from the planet. Bush junior left Middland because it was ruined by the industry and moved to Crawford. This isolation will not work in the long run of course.
I am watching a lot of UCTV on my dish network and I tae the programs and we watch them at the local library to learn more about science of glaciers, global warming, all kinds of studies etc.
I am writing and writing because I am worried.
We also need to stop discussing the abortion issue entirely, we need to reach out to women globally how to control the birth rate by all methods including condoms and morning after pill and abortions too- a family planning clinic in every village. Tunisia did it after 1966 and they did not spend a dime on military stuff.
Educate, peace, live for conviction and ideals and in a lovely community feelings and remember Thoreau - simplify simplify and of course study hard and be part of the solution for our plants, animals, the beaty of the planet. Let us stay alive - to hell with oil and gas.
RC and ALL of us. Did you know that starfish do not have a brain. __ Just trivia but true.
Did you know that the ocean’s phytoplankton produce near 70% of our oxygen? Did you know that their numbers have reduced by near 12% in the past few years? Did you know that if that trend continues, that in another very few years, we will all be dead and that of course includes our children and grand children. The mice and rats too.
What is killing off the phytoplankton? Whatever the reason, do you believe it is a serious problem? ___We’d better believe it is. The most highly suspected reason is, man made pollutions of many different types.
WTF, be our guest, start the ball rolling, let us know where to watch you off yourself.
We need to cultivate an attitude of hope. Hopelessness, despair, cynicism, etc. will only create more obstacles.
I feel extremely hopeful - not all the time, for I am still prone to emotional swings - but most of the time.
Humans are an incredibly adaptable creature. Although one might cynically debate this point and say we are worse than animals, we need to remember the incredible human potential to be kind, loving, compassionate and altruistic - to hold in mind a larger view than “I, me, mine”.
Check out Riane Eisler’s, “The Real Wealth of Nations” in which she advocates for the shift from an economic system based on domination to one based on partnership. Her writing is extremely positive and contains visionary yet practical steps we can start taking now to reorient the market economy (i.e. capitalism) without needing to fall into desperation thinking such as the need for violent revolution.
peace,
Jordan
BTW, the plankton die offs are NOT my observations or scientfic opinions. There are some good articles available on the net about it.
The phytoplankton are tiny plants, not the animal plankton.
I’ll keep that in mind, to be positive and cheerful, when the phytoplankton herds have dropped off another 10% to 20% and it becomes harder to gulp in oxygen. I’ll also be thinking of others, I’m too old to be thinking of myself. Don’t worry be happy,___ like the fun movie, Harold and Maude. __ We got ten more years to be happy.
Of course this is real life isn’t it and reality often sux.
Here’s food for thought…
If auto mobile manufactures had to focus on new methods of propulsion - what do you think would happen to the Billions of dollars invested in petroleum and oil reserves… Why is Bush and other world leaders (Kings of the oil fields) disregarding new forms of energy???
Bush has the IQ of a piss ant SWORD, so don’t expect him to think that far ahead.
Hey, good question. Actually they still have a great deal of control over the auto industry. Clean energy will eventually arrive, the oil barons will control it and will be selling us the electrical power ___ as they do now.
Actully the big money people are just a very few, including the Royal Family of England. They control almost everythng, including the price of uranium, the gold, silver and copper mines. We think it is a lot of corporations, but it’s just a very few families that own them all. They don’t care if we have a depression either, it will help to reduce the populations and they will sill have their loot and their power.
hmm, if countries like SA, Australia, India, Pakistan, China and countries in Parts of Africa were to develop and manufacture Alternative Energy in producing and manufacturing auto mobiles then they would become the world leaders and driving faction in Climate and environmental change.
In fact all of the above mention countries have the capability of doing this - In saying India has already develop and Electrical Scooter which due to the conditions of traffic and road infrastructure would reduce the amount of pollution within the country.
If people stomp there feet together mountains will crumble.
Logging off. Have a great day or noght…
“We better get the governments of this planet to agree with you IAMMYSELF.”
I’m not waiting for anyone, Kem, least of all the governments.
Is everybody in?
The singularity is about to begin…
give the suburbs back to organic farming
http://www.freepublictransit.org
S_W_O_R_D — you ask “Why is Bush and other world leaders (Kings of the oil fields) disregarding new forms of energy???
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
laffingbear/Galen - i hope you don’t mind me trying to go a bit further on your 4:04/4:13 pm posts from yesterday.
What about this. What about all of the unborn children yet to be? Should they be taken into consideration? If so how - how is something like this (future possible human life) “valued”? I think this future life should be given “paramount” consideration. Why else are we here?
Also, i’d like to give a thanks to Don Robertson (4:14 pm post) who got me thinking about this..
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Charlotte, NC
I read somewhere that China is factoring in environmental damage in their economic planning i.e. moving it from externality to internality. I think that is a reasonable way to go. I realize that this rapidly-industrializing nation is devastating their environment, but the idea itself is the seed that needs to sprout.
Also, I read a Common Dreams article last week that asserted that conversion to renewable energy sources would grow the economy. If so, then we ought to be able to satisfy all reasonable people in avoiding climate-change catastrophe. Otherwise, I think PhysicsTeacherGuy worse option for our future is correct. Nature limits us. We don’t limit nature. Perhaps, we can persuade our next president to assert these proposals as policies.
KEM PATRICK said:
Air condition Hell? I dunno, but Tammy Faye and Jim baker had an air conditioned $8,000 dog house. Cheney is their type.
Being Jim and Tammy Faye’s dog may qualify as hell, air conditioning or no.
IAMMYSELF, I applaud your attitude, I wish every human on Earth would do as you do. If the world governments don’t get together on this very serious problem and sensibly act on it, there is not much hope, no matter what we as individuals may think or do about it.
I don’t know of any other solution to reverse the damage already done, and or to stop the insanity we as humanity are currently doing in regards to world wide pollution of our enviroment, than to have all of the worlds governments involvment in efforts to correct the problem.
Yes, a combination of “grass-roots-bottom-up” efforts, which are personal and local in scale coupled with “collective-top-down” efforts which are larger in scale. What needs to stop is government posturing and corporate resistance. No small matter there, but it ain’t going to happen unless there is collective will.
Personally, if i step back a bit it seems to me that humanity has been “successful” if you look at our ability to spread around the planet. Now we just need to recognize that if we want future generations, we simply cannot continue as we have (duh). I suppose this is all obvious, but sometimes it helps “put pen to paper”.
Oh well, if it is obvious, then it should be relatively simple….don’t you think?
Peace,
Ken Hausle
KEN, I think anoter day has passed and nothing productive has been done about the ‘most serious’ problem. I also believe that statement will be quite accurate, several years from now. We have had ample warning about this since at least 1965 and nothing productive has ever been done to correct the absolute insanity, in fact it has only gotten worse. That is an unarguable FACT.
That is reality, and reality is not always good.
Kem - Of course any “classification” of reality is a function of whomever is doing the classifying. So whether or not it is “good” or “bad” depends upon the classifier’s perspective. Collectively though, i suspect most of us here would agree that “reality” could be much better for the sake of humanity.
I hear what you are saying about warnings that have been ignored, but that doesn’t mean it will keep on being this way — does it? Furthermore, i’d argue that a huge difference between today and 1965 is that it is getting harder and harder to pretend that “the problem” is not “most serious”. Most of us can literally sense it day-to-day, and i think tolerance for those who try to obfuscate, misdirect, or “play the People for fools” is diminishing.
In the US of A our leaders have been remiss and are now so disconnected from collective reality that i think unless they “get re-connected” they are about to get removed from office one way or the other. How things transpire obviously remains to be seen, but i intend on trying to focus on solutions and i encourage you to do likewise.
Most of us here are aware of the problems (it least i have become more so as i have been learning much in these conversations over the last 6 months or so). Now i think it is time to start focussing on the solutions - don’t you? Many were discussed and proposed in this thread. They are out there and the momentum is building.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Of course I think we should start focussng on the solutions KEN, that is precicely what I have been saying. Maybe you missed it? I also say it will require a massive effort by all of the world’s governments; do you disagree with that opinion of mine? I also stated we have had ample warnings from hghly qualified scientists since at least as far back as 1965 and to date nothing productive has been done and I don’t see anything being done that will help to the degree necessary. Do you disagree with that obvious fact of reality? If so, tell us what you do see that is being done in any major manner, that is actually going to help. I’m glad you have hope, many do. Will hope alone help? Now before you start typing again and in a manner of telling me I am not correct on the issue, absorb what I just wrote. We need a massive world wide effort,___ NOW. Ten years is a very shor time frame and we need ot act NOW. ___ NOW, not next year or some time in the future.
Kem - no need to be argumentative. We basically agree and if this wasn’t evident in my text, let it be evident now. Climate change is serious, we have been ignoring it at our own peril, and we need to start doing something about it yesterday.
Peace Dood.
Ken Hausle
I agree with you all the way KEN. I got the argument word from your prior post, where you stated “I’d argue thatXXXXXXXX and so on.
Anyway I believe we both agree, we have a most serious problem and it must be addressed immediately, worldwide, with a maJor cleanup program and efforts initiated to elemInate fossil fuel burnnig for starters and to immedately stop using DU for weapons.
We’re doomed. I mean really, really doomed.
If an able bodied 18 year old kid wan’t to do some kind of Peace Corps type thing and fight Climate Change for room, board and pocket money there would be no place to go. We have hundreds of thousands of unemployed people just in the U.S. and millions more who hate their jobs selling useless crap at Wallyworld.
Look at New Orleans where people are thwarted in trying to rebuild a city that would be doomed by a mere 1 meter sea level rise.
Sometime soon the shit will hit the fan and US citizens will die in large numbers due to a weather event. Atlanta is a good candidate. Even then the proposals to mitigate climate change will be penny-ante. 1.6 percent is BS considering the damages we are facing from even a tiny sea level rise. Get yourself a nice long barbeque because there will be an abundance of long pork and nothing else to eat soon enough.
Nature bats last.
This is becoming the number one issue of our time. I think the effects of Global Climate Change are only beginning. Perhaps the sooner issues come, the sooner we can all realize the scope of the problem. Change is vital, but so is universal participation. All change begins with the individual, yet we see the origins of GCC in our consumption-oriented lifestyles here in wealthy nations, while poorer nations pay the price. This is a clear injustice.
Solutions will require education. People need to know what they’re doing is wrong. Most importantly, we need to make change part of who we are, collectively, as Americans. The best approach is to tell other people about what is at stake. Simultaneously, we need all governments of the world to take control of the situation. Waiting for more and more negative momentum to build will be 1) more costly 2) less effective and 3) contribute to bigger negative consequences.
Governments need to act because no matter how much we do as individuals, we cannot directly control the sources of Carbon Dioxide. One coal plant down the street could produce more CO2 in a day then 1000 people could save by biking and using less energy (don’t stop doing those things though!). We want our energy cheap, too, so governments need to make the transition to alternative fuels NOW. Transitions like gradual taxation must begin so that the pain of a radical instantaneous shift to sustainable energies doesn’t destroy the economy, which we need to consider and redefine if need be. Mega-engineering programs like floating mirrored cubes in space between us and the sun need to investigated, but we must not rely on a quick fix.
Panic is the enemy; creating a sense of urgency is preferable. Rather than win over CO2 offenders, we need to win them over. Rather than make enemies, we need to stress the need to take action together. Voluntary participation will do so much more than forced compliance, which will come too late. At some point governments will be forced to act; can we wait until then? Entities that make profits based on high CO2 emissions will have to be denied political power and protection. [I blogged on this at www.jbpeebles.blogspot.com]
It’s painfully obvious that no one (that matters) believes this UN report. I have seen no main stream coverage of this report. Really too bad. Perhaps if it came from an organization other than the UN? I’m not saying the report has no credibility, I’m just saying that the MSM appears to think so. I mean, what bigger story could there be than our own self-destruction?
VeggieCar - yes our “own” self-destruction is of amusement.
But, it won’t go down. It will be thrown up.
Up for all.
Peace,
KH
signing off for a long time now…..really,,,,
ok, who wants to tell Wall Street that the party is over?
Like trying to get someone off heroin or crack.
Wall Street apparently doesn’t recognize the value of future life.
Wall Street therefore seems to be lifeless.
Just like the lifeless corporate and private enterprises that take so much away.
Don’t you think? I do.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
You watch them nuts screaming and waving their arms on the floor at Wall Street, and you realize what a crazy bunch they really must be. Then they have a terrible day with everything going down the toilet, they ring that stupid bell and a bunch of intelligent appearing dorks stand there smiling and clapping their hands………. Nuts.
They don’t know anything but the stock market, they go to bed at night thinking about the market. Like a bunch of ants carrying seeds to their hill hole, that’s all they know.
What a Titanic problem…if you don’t have very good tickets, it might be a good time to go take a stroll on deck…near the life boats…
3 words Nuclear Ice Age. Search commondreams.org for ice age, the article you’ll find is survival reading. 3 years the totality of the duration of Ice Age onset. Meaning from the first year of precipitous melt off, as was observed this summer by the European Space Agency announcing a “Northern Passage”, 3 years from this event, glacial forming, a.k.a. permafrost occurs at mid North America, mid Europe and Asia. The snow that falls next winter won’t melt in the summer after for latitudes midway between the Equator and the poles. Agriculture is expected to suffer greatly and humanity obviously to follow. The present organizational infrastructure is geared toward protecting about a percent of a percent of worldwide humanity. The rest are a target of that massive, newly robotic, satellite and nuclear weapon commanding, organizational structure.