I do not cry for US soldiers who kill innocent Iraqis in their own country after the US invaded illegally. US soldiers volunteered for this criminal war, and they kill with impunity. So when they die, I have no compassion at all for them. They should not be there in the first place. But I do cry for the innocent Iraqis who die at the hand of the American murderers who go there to kill. American soldiers are no better than the Nazis who invaded the countries of Europe, killing their innocent civilians. Imperialism is criminal. The soldiers of imperialism are criminals. No one should cry for them.

I have been crying for the Iraqi women and children since this illegal war began. We are NOT a pro-life country - not even close. We don't take care of our own and we destroy those in other countries. May God forgive George W. Bush and the rest of his ilk. May God forgive all of us.

The Shrub doesn't deserve any forgiveness, he deserves to be tried as the War Criminal that he is and hanged, PERIOD.

Just like other warlords have got their just desserts, Bush will get his. To bad he will be like 80 years old before it happens.

Wonderful Essay !

Unfortunately many Americans find it easier to identify with the emotional content of a soap opera than the deaths of a million Iraqis !

It is time to unload the misguided language of the "peace movement" as well as Congress and the White House and the Pentagon.

DO NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS, even if Cindy tells you it is the politically correct thing to do !

DAHLIA WASFI FOR PRESIDENT !

If you missed this essay or the comments it is worth consideration.

The Legacy of Oppression and The Legitimacy of Resistance: by Dahlia Wasfi

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/30/3495/

Despite the criminal "conservative compassion" spin of the present war crimes White House regime (and Congress), the genuine meaning of compassion is not merely sentimental pity, but the ability to truly understand the suffering of others from their viewpoint. Then, we are obligated to act in a manner that will reduce that suffering.

And don't miss the new Hunter Thompson documentary, "Buy The Ticket Take the Ride" and "Rush to War", both in video stores.

With Metta Forever

I do cry for the families of the killed soldiers. I also cry for all the Iraq and Afghan people who daily have to live in fear.
I there were no soldiers there would be no war. I can never understand how anyone can volunteer to kill at the order of someone else.
I doubt that I could kill an animal even if I was hungry let alone another person.

Lack of rememberance that we are all one and in this together is cause of all problems in the world. In America especially people are programmed to revel in others demise and to be very competative with each other. TV shows where people can feel better about themselves by watching others suffer or fail, American Idol and Cops for example.

Everything about America is about doing better than others, better car, better clothes, better house. Americans don't even love each other let alone people in other countries. Just this morning I was driving down a street and there was a car broke down. People would honk and drive around it, until myself and two other people got there, saw the stranded car and helped push them off the road.

Luckily though we can remember for them. Forgive every person you come in contact with and love them. Yes even George Bush. This doesn't mean you stop fighting against their wrong doings but in your mind you still acknowledge the oneness. Every person you remember for has an impact on all of us.

Like the people who smashed in to the WTC buildings, we went to Iraq and smashed into their buildings and for four long years continued killing and maiming their people and destroying their infrastructure. I do not support our troops even though they have been fooled into thinking by committing atrocities against others, they are protecting people at home.

My mother told me about a German soldier that they had to house for a week in Norway back during WWII. She said she remembers him playing the piano for them with tears flowing down his cheeks because he was so homesick. Nazis have a well-deserved bad rap, but we have to remember they too were human and sent into wars that they were ill informed about. My knee-jerk reaction is to condemn American soldiers, but I try to remember we have a poverty draft here, plus lots of propaganda and brain-wash and that the brain isn't fully developed until a person is 25. The soldiers we send over aren't fully adult yet.

"Half of Iraq's population of 27 million are children"....

Looks like America's got a supply of Terrorists for generations....

Remember it took the Serbians 590 years to take revenge on the Bosnian massacre by the King of Bosnia 590 years earlier.... In the Middle East Muslims have good memories.... Average Americans can't remember ZIP about Vietnam War.... When Bu$h bumbled a speech in 2003 and inadvertently mentioned the new Crusade in Iraq!!!

Every Muslim from Indonesia to Mecca to the Tunisia felt prickles on the backs of their necks......They all know about the real Crusade 1000 years earlier....

But as innocenti September 6th, 2007 4:54 am stated perfectly
"It seems to me things are going as planned.....the fundamental mission, I believe, is to smash the Iraqi state and replace it with a weak, malleable client entity which is ultimately more easily controlled. If viewed from this perspective, many of the seemingly counterproductive moves of this administration suddenly make perfect sense. Dismantling of the Iraqi army, allowing the looting and destruction of most elements of the Iraqi state, fomenting sectarian divisions [the 'Salvador option' contributed to the immediate increase in Shia/Sunni strife]....This all points to a strategy to ensure a huge transfer of wealth, in perpetuity, from the people of the USA and Iraq, to the pockets of the large vested interests behind this whole calamity."

The "self responsibility" and "small government" experiment in the US has given you no sense of community, massive gun crime, massive poverty, racism backed by full jails, illegal wars, school massacres etc etc. You want to export this to the world????!!!!

crying. is. not. what. this. brings. out. of. me.

Every last member of this cabal deserves to be strung up on a wall with a tube stuffed down their throats for food and antibiotics and then be carved apart, starting at the extremities one cubic inch at a time until just a skinless trunk and head are left to hang in front of a mirror to watch what's left die of old age.

very. very. angry.

You nailed it, koalaburger. What is so stunning is that so many Americans think we are the best country in the world. We don't take care of our own and we destroy the lives of others. And we strut around being proud of ourselves. I don't see anything to be proud of.

"America should be proud of her sons and daughters and honor their commitment to our nation."

We should not be "proud" of these war criminals. We should be ashamed that they have not the courage to stand up against this illegal and immoral war in Iraq and Afganistan.

When men and women join the military, they make a social contract that our leadership must not and will not send them into an illegal, criminal war of profit against a people who was not our justifiable enemy.

The contract was broken. And they should have had the strength to quit or resist.

Anyone who cares about the genocide committed against the Iraqi people by the United States should read Cool War, by Joy Gordon in Harpers Magazine.

Our sanctions had already killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians in the ten years before Bush-Cheney's invasion.

I really wonder, were the US to be tried in some fashion for war crimes, whether these "loyal, proud to be" Americans would once again distance themselves from the soldiers, and whether they would accept the collective shame that the United States deserves. Would they ever utter the words, "We lost"? And will our History books ever tell the real story?

For the Germans several decades ago, it took the students to protest the fact that German history ended with the abdication of the Kaiser and picked up again after World War II. What will it take in America, alleged "Land of the Free"?

www.raycarlson.com

Kristina: May God forgive GWB and all of us. Forgiveness IS all it's cracked up to be.

Before that, however, we must try GWB and the Dick for war crimes, and they must be punished, but we must not turn into brutal people ourselves. Be careful while being honest and activist and calling the elephant in the middle of the room for what it is.

Davepepper, thank you. I agree. It's heartbreaking that the Iraqi children are made orphans, don't have enough nourishing food, are denied education, are traumatized for life, and have had their childhood stolen from them thanks to the greedy Bush-Cheney Crime Syndicate and their enablers who are in Iraq.

Juliann, it's "God's" job to forgive, not mine. I don't forgive him and I don't forget what he's done. To be forgiven doesn't one have to be repentant? I don't see much of that from him, in fact, I see quite the opposite, smug, self assured, smirking. He's enjoying what he's done, so, NO, I don't think he deserves forgiveness but I understand where you are coming from.

Remember, 9/11 was a reaction to 3 major actions of the US military and Congress: US bases in Arab lands, military support for Israels 6 decade war against Arabs, and the previous portions of the Iraq war which indirectly caused hundreds of thousands of deaths of children under 5.

US military actions do not make us safer or more free. It is exactly the opposite. The resulting retaliation gives the US government an excuse to restrict US citizen's freedom, in some cases completely. While an 18 year old recruit is DTS (dumber than feces) and any officer with 20 years in so conditioned in military-think he is effectively the same, these people are adults and should be expected to behave as adults.

As much as I may understand the drive to condemn our soldiers for carrying out the obviously illegal and immoral orders that have been handed to them, I would ask that you first understand what drives them to do so.

I am on the national staff of an anti-war non-profit, whose membership is comprised of both retired veterans and active duty soldiers. These are men and women who have seen combat firsthand, and have dedicated themselves to preventing the loss of even one more life to this conflict. With that in mind, I say to you: if you have never served, or are not intimately connected to someone who has, it is almost impossible for you to understand the connection between our soldiers. This is in no way disregarding one's opinion, but as civilians we cannot relate to the bonds forged in such perilous conditions. My mind leaps to a very close friend, who was enlisted in the Army for 7 years, and is now highly active in the anti-war movement. He was officially discharged exactly four days before we crossed the border into Iraq. Even though he is morally opposed to everything we are currently engaged in militarially, I have sat with him as he wept and told me that he constantly punishes himself for leaving. Not because he believes in our "mission" but because he feels directly responsible for the soldiers he trained to fight this war. He mentions re-enlistment, though his good sense prevents that from happening.

No argument is absolute, but I will say that almost all of our servicemembers joined with the best of intentions, and did so honorably. Behind every uniform, as with every Iraqi citizen, is a human being, a family, hopes, dreams... Please do not attribute the immorality of ths war with those who fight it. They do so for reasons that most of us can and will never understand, and to take away from that is an injustice in and of itself.

We can only hope the next president,whichever corporation it will be, wont be so imperialistic. It looks like we'll be in Iraq for some time to come. I see the only long term solutions are very basic. Reform campaign financing. Restrict lobbyists. Tell Israel to get lost. Get rid of these corrupt congressmen that have lost all sense of reality and integrity. Give the people back their voice. Unless the basics get restored we will only have more of the same. Were an empire now and will probably end up on the trash heap like the others before. Unless....Unless...we find a way to cause change,otherwise it's all over but the shouting!!

I want to ask all those senators, house members,cabinet memebers and military leaders along with our president and our vice president to look in the eyes of the mothers and fathers of children who they call colateral damage - and tell them " this killing is justified and they feel they have done the right thing by supporting this war.

It is difficult to understand that the only kindness these children find may be death.

pikaomega -

I understand your point. I agree most of with your statements, just not the conclusion. The reality is these people are adults, and are responsible for making choices. The bonds you mention are a key characteristic of gangs. Some gangs are good (e.g. the firefighters), some are bad (e.g. most street gangs). In the present situation, the stakes are very high for the Iraqis, and potentially for all of us if the nuclear fuse is lit off.

Loyalty to the US military, and by extension what it is doing, is opposite of loyalty to the US and to their own families, because US military action threatens their safety. Certainly an emotionally tough choice, but there is only one correct decision.

Our miltary, living and dying under the terms of a sworn contract with our government are, generally, behaving as honorable people. It is the avaricious lice in Washington who have not lived up to their sworn oaths to serve the People and defend the Constitution.

Condoning the actions of the murderer posing as Commander in Chief is not the same thing as supporting our troops.

"The Secretary might even cry if he saw Iraqi children scrounging in the garbage for food or going into prostitution to survive"

I doubt it. There isn't that much compassion in the whole Bush administration combined.
Perhaps if the kids could make a campaign contribution? Then they'd be seen and heard.

This morning I was discussing the Iraqi war and possible escalation into Iran with my best friend who is raised Catholic. I mentioned that I was considering going to Washington, DC for the demonstrations on the 15th. She said she thought a prayer vigil might be more effective and that she was praying for our troops. I went into a short diatribe on why I thought it was ridiculous to pray for our troops, after all, they are there mainly on a mission to kill. But she said she was praying for them because that prayer might be the thing that changes their course, lights the light inside them. This is ALWAYS a potential. I, like another contributor to this thread, cannot forgive Bush because the premise is also (beyond repentance, though both are certainly connected) to go and sin NO MORE. To not only fail to see the inordinate pain caused to others for an amoral war/decision but to continue full throttle into more of same (Iran) is beyond objectionable. Could forgiveness alter Bush? I do not think so, not at this point in his evolution; but perhaps my friend is right about WHY we pray for the troops, so as to EN-LIGHT-en them, and hopefully get them to follow the lead of truly BRAVE men of moral courage like Watada. PEACE.

Who cares about the little ragheads? Or the little nigras, or the little beaners? At least they could make tennis shoes, but now they're not allowed to, so what good are they? They're little mud people and they'll take over if the Aryan race lets them. They multiply like rats and they think the world belongs to them, instead of to its rightful white owners. And they'll get free healthcare, free education, welfare and take the white man's jobs if we don't build a real tall fence around our borders. They're all drug addicts and heathens. We need more jails to throw their black asses in. And more guns to shoot them with. Now, where is that beaner maid with my drink?

Marikken, you hit the nail right on the head. The poverty draft is in full swing in America and the extremely young men and women in uniform often don't have the experience and/or education to realize what they're signing up for when they "volunteer". We shouldn't be too quick to condemn them for this atrocious war because, on the whole, they have no ability to set policy or procedure, just as was probably be the case with the German soldier quartered with your mother's family. War is an atrocity unto itself and the conditions of war lead otherwise good people to do horrible things, often just in the interest of staying alive.

The thrust of this article is correct, though. Many Americans are readily able to sympathize with the soldiers who are serving in this imperial debacle. Comparatively few are able to sympathize with the thousand-times-greater suffering that has been inflicted on the Iraqi people.

Dear ezeflyer,
Don't mind that odd taste in your drink. Soon you'll be cured of all that ails you. Hate always leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

check out this link....riverbendblogspot....

People have to understand that these young guys going over to Iraq are mostly being duped. Their taught that they're fighting for "freedom" and are being bribed with cash and free tuition among other things. Bashing the troops wholesale is counterproductive. We need to engage these people as when they come back, they're likely going to have problems, and the administration isn't going to care about them.

Should we also despise the Vietnam vet who's sleeping in an alleyway and suffering from dementia?

You also have to keep in mind that our corporate media shields most of us from the horrors that are occurring in Iraq. It's not that Americans are heartless beasts (as some would like to believe, just as people on the right want us to think that Arabs are all bloodthirsty fanatics who want to conquer the West). They just don't know. I never hear or see anything in the mainstream news about the amount of Iraqis dead.

I said this before in another thread. There's an excellent documentary out there called "Why We Fight" which came out in 2005. In one scene they show a bunch of Iraqis, many young women, holding a candlelight vigil for The US immediately after the 9-11-01 attacks.

That's why I wrestle with this too. I know that there are soldiers that have committed atrocities over there. I know how the Iraqis are being dehumanized with racism as were the Vietnamese. And it almost goes without saying now how this war has been a complete sham and an imperialist rampage.

But you have to ask? Were these American kids monsters before they went to Iraq, or after? And that's if you want to see them that way.

It's just another case of poor and working people being pitted against other poor and working people, a class war of global proportions. That's why as much as I hate what the troops are doing and don't want them there, I can't hate the troops themselves. I'd rather reserve that rage for the people who started it. The Bush administration are the ones with blood on their hands. Not some farm kid who enlisted because some recruiter convinced him into thinking that it would be a good way to earn money for college.

Maybe I'm just too angry to cry for anyone now.

SEPTEMBER 15
Mass March in Washington DC!
Gather at 12 noon at the White House

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."

Thanks for writing this. One of the most shocking things I have observed, in the UK as well as the US, is the stone-faced response to Iraqi casualties. Post an article about it to DU, for instance, and it drops out of sight: only articles about the suffering of returned veterans seems to win pity, even from self-described liberals. In fact, instead of crying for them and acknowledging guilt, mostly we seem to argue about how many of them there are, with much heat and venom engendered in the process. One is too many. What happened to our respect for human life, and its absolute inviolability? Capital punishment and a vengeful penal system may have leached it out of American souls, but Brits have no excuse. No, it is merely the evil old "in group", "out group" mentality of our early evolution at work. And nobody is more "out group" than the civilians of an enemy country. Even their soldiers get more respect. This war is exposing how little progress we have indeed made, how hollow and superficial our claims to civilisation.

"So let's start by
Making it clear
Who is the enemy, here

And we'll show them
That it's not them
Who is superior

It's gonna be bad
It's gonna be wrong
It's gonna feel good

Marching the hate machines into the sun"

~Thievery Corporation

Don't turn on the military. The fact that we attacked a soverign nation for our own interests (and Israel's) should bring home the need for a strong military. If WE could do that, afterall. other nations would be capable of the same against us. Unfortunately we let out leaders get away we their abuse of power. I know I didn't do enough. People get the leaders they deserve.

Ahmen, Geff. You sound like I feel. The entire machine needs to be stopped.

Indeed. Although the criminal invasion of Iraq has been a tragedy for me and my family (American with Iraqi stepfamily), it's clear that those of us who pity the Iraqis are a tiny minority. It seems that the U.S. media constantly emphasize the "heroics" of our troops, and that most people in the U.S. seem to be living in a bubble -- completely ignorant of how bad things really are in Iraq, and subject to extreme propaganda. But that's no excuse for not thinking critically!
By the way, one of my ancestors deserted the Austro-Hungarian army during the first World War because his fellow soldiers wanted him to "torture" (rape) women and children. He risked his life so that he wouldn't have to participate in their sick crime. To me, he was far more heroic than any U.S. or British soldier in Iraq could be. They should follow his example: heed their conscience, and bail out.

Geff, please calm down. Your point is well-made and enticing. It is very tempting to view the world in such black-and-white terms. Either soldiers are criminals or they are dupes, with no middle ground. It is a natural human reaction to stereotype. However, the soldiers serving are not homogenous. While some, such as the psychopaths who raped and murdered Abeer Qasim Hamza, evoke little sympathy, other young men and women truly did not know what they were signing up for, have tried to do what is right, and have been received horrific injuries for their efforts. Also, as (admittedly unethical) studies in psychology such as the Stanford prison experiment and the Milgram experiment show, resistance to peer pressure and heirarchical thinking remain comparatively rare in the human species. For those in the military, resistance is made even more difficult by the brain-washing called "boot camp". Soldiers are trained not to question, but rather to say "How high?" when the commander says "Jump!". This does not excuse the criminal behavior often exhibited by American forces, but it does help to explain it.

The whole war is an American crime and you'll find few on this website who'll argue with you on that point. As an American crime, we all bear some share of the responsibility.

OLD BADGER says, "This war is exposing how little progress we have indeed made, how hollow and superficial our claims to civilisation." This is the point. This is what happens when only old systems of thought are used (by religion, the so-called experts, laws that look to the past/precedent to define today's reality, etc) to hold MINDS (and thus lives) hostage. NO progress. I say it's like navigating mankind's shared vehicle with only ONE oar in the water, that of a white male linear, logical worldview that leaves NO room, lends no credence to the diffusive, feminine, mystical intuitive counterpart. Hello, OTHER oar!!!! How about using BOTH so we cease the circling, then reflecting on this hapless estate send experts in to tout pessimistically that this is evidence of human nature. Human nature my ass... it's what happens when only HALF of Creation's Yin-Yang Divine equation is utilized. And unbalanced equations lead to assymetry which leads to tearing the beloved shared world asunder... hello, global warming. Hello, arms trade superceding our investments in food, alternative, ecosystems' sustaining energies, education, art, peace, beauty the THINGS that matter! Not the things that shatter! And some of you still question whether or not Mars rules? Whether or not this singular archetype, surely part and parcel to the Creation blueprint and very much a PART of ourselves is the ONLY priniciple being allowed to bully its way to dominance? There's a reason for the circle, the ultimate symbol of democracy, where different voices--each acting as counterbalance to the others potential strenths and trespassing weaknesses--are ALL invited to the table, where reality is an expression that invites diverse perspectives, not ONE, the "right" one, etc. AS everywhere species are dying, nature is imploding from this emphasis on MARS seen in our dying rivers and broken forests, our investment in yet more nuclear bunker busters and soldiers as well as citizens increasingly becoming fodder to 'war games.' What led mankind to this juncture? We cannot totally embrace the cure without recognizing the cognitive elements that drew this disease to global critical mass with the possibly most blessed of all nations leading in this massive ill-fated carnage... astrologers have been silenced NOT because we are flakes, but because we have a methodology for viewing the paradigm from a perspective that transcends those divisive ideologies that keep tribes locked in perpetual combat... We see from a HIGHER level and really understand the dynamics at play. The circle is a powerful strategy that can save us from our selves, our most primal/bestial/aggressive aspect... the part that earth school has been developed to process out of us, as we grow into our DIVINE counterparts. Mars is the enemy of that process... and Mars is out of balance and creating a devolutionary process that is ripping against the currents of all things progressive, designed by and through Light in this cosmos of ours.

Jesus forgave the thief on the cross, because he knew the faith was sincere. He did not however remove him from the cross, because we are not protected from the natural results of our sins.

We should forgive Bu$h the inferior, Shotgun Dick and all the others and hang them for their crimes against humanity. Jesus can judge their level of faith.

Geneva conventions and the trials since WW2 have set a standard for justice. It is legal, moral and Christian to allow the natural result of these war criminals' sin to be carried out.

I haven't been proud of my of my country since the day we invaded Iraq! It was wrong then and time hasn't improved it since! I brought a 'Proud to be an American' tee shirt right after 9/11. I haven't worn it since we invaded Iraq and started killing their people and tearing up their country. It no longer holds the same connotations it once held. So, I probably won't be wearing it for a long time to come.

keyman 12, Thanks for the heads up I had no idea that Riverbend had posted on Thursday.I'm so happy she made it out of Bagdad.No posts since June ,we have all been worrying about her and her family.@.5 million refugeesm,two million internally displaced,over a decade of bombing and ...sanctions,possibly a million dead hundreds of thousands injured,depleted Uranium dust contamination and the future cancers . This is G.W.B.s G.H.W.B.s and W.J.C.s legacy,but let us not forget Cheney ,Rumsfield ,Reagon ,and on and on a legacy of U.S. imperialism. peace