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Shame The Doubters Were So Quiet When We Went To War
The British withdrawal from Basra Palace might not have been defeat as such - there was no panic, no Saigon-style helicopters, and no triumphal enemy firing that we know of - but it was hardly victory, was it? The barest handover formalities were observed, and only after the troops had arrived in the relative safety of their airport base.
Anyone under the illusion that we can still salvage some honour from Iraq, however, should attend to the noises off, specifically those issuing recently from Washington and London. First, the US General John Keane questioned the British contribution; then General Sir Mike Jackson described US policy as "intellectually bankrupt". Finally, Maj-Gen Tim Cross chimed in - in a Sunday newspaper interview - to condemn the US approach as "fatally flawed".
With US and British troops still in the field, the blame game - transatlantic or domestic - is as yet something the top brass can play only by proxy, through their allies in retirement. But there can be no doubt that it is being played - and played by individuals of very great seniority and influence.
General Keane has served since his retirement as the eyes and ears of the US political establishment in Iraq. General Jackson became Britain's chief of general staff on the eve of the Iraq war, and has been increasingly open about his misgivings in retirement. Maj-Gen Cross was in charge of post-invasion planning on the British side.
Frank though these recriminations might seem, however, they still skirt the central issue of blame. The US Defence Secretary at the time, Donald Rumsfeld, is a favourite target of British critics, for ignoring or dismissing their warnings. But Mr Rumsfeld is too easy a fall-guy. Since his sacking after the Republicans' humiliation in last year's elections, he has become the scapegoat for everyone's sins.
And why all this talk of "post-war planning"? Do those who led us into this war still cling to the notion that the war was a brilliant idea, brilliantly executed - until Mr Rumsfeld and his inept planners mangled the follow-up? Or are they just saving their skins?
The truth, though, comes ever closer. Listen to Maj-Gen Cross. "Right from the beginning," he says, "we were all very concerned about the lack of detail that had gone into the post-war plan."
I am sure they were. The many leaks to journalists from unhappy members of the defence and diplomatic establishment over those months testify eloquently to these worries. But if there was so much concern at the time - from the British head of military planning, from Britain's newly appointed chief of the general staff, among others - why in heaven's name were they not more open about it? Why did not any which one of them - dare one mention the word - resign?
It is unfair to restrict ourselves to the top brass. A few more names could be added. The Prime Minister's chief foreign policy adviser at the time, Sir Stephen Wall, said 18 months after the invasion - after he had left for a secure berth in the private sector - that in the run-up to the war "we" - note the plural - had allowed "our" judgement of the "dire consequences of inaction" to override our judgement about the legality of the war.
Sir Jeremy Greenstock, parachuted from being "our man" at the UN to the less enviable job of "our man" in Baghdad, repeatedly alluded to problems with the "day after scenario" (as post-war planning was known), but always expressed his misgivings in euphemisms on and off the record. Now retired and comfortably ensconced as director of an academic foundation, Sir Jeremy recently voiced some criticisms for a BBC documentary, but confined his remarks - of course - to the deficiencies of US post-war planning.
Here we had some of the most senior officials in and around the Blair government, and now they "all" want us to know that they harboured enormous misgivings, but only about "post-war planning". So why, individually and collectively, were they so reticent when it mattered?
The arguments against resignation are well rehearsed. The non-resigner argues that his representations will be more effective if kept within the organisation. He speaks of a duty of loyalty or confidentiality. He insists that war is no time for resignations that could depress morale and so jeopardise the mission. He argues that the departure of someone so senior would not halt the doomed enterprise and could make matters worse by removing key expertise. Some admit that they just hoped Blair was right and they were wrong.
Just imagine, though, if the chief of general staff, chief of military operations planning, chief Downing Street foreign policy adviser and Britain's chief representative in Baghdad had relinquished their posts, citing their personal and professional "concerns"? Would British forces, I wonder, have had to steal away from Basra Palace in the small hours of the morning four years on?
© 2007 The Independent



37 Comments so far
Show AllIt's nice to see that a complicit British MSM (main stream media) source is voicing the opinions ...NOW...as many of us here in the US have had for years. This was an act by, of, and for criminals in both countries, not about terrorism, but for resources ie OIL. For those who deny similarities between the Viet Nam fiasco, and this misadventurous debacle in the middle east this is an especially glaring one.
Rather than do due diligence, the MSM abbrogated its responsibility to research & inform, chosing instead to be swayed through fear based on lies, and a propaganda program Goebbels would have been proud of. The media should never bow before anyone, king/queen, or prime minister/president.
Another parallel between Viet Nam & Iraq is what we are seeing going on right now. Serious protests against Viet Nam were going on since the mid-sixties, and the information was out there it was another instance of a trumped up 'false flag' operation designed to terrorize those within both countries through the fear of some ill defined 'other, communist or terrorist. Millions of lives lost through both wars and we slowly become aware the real culprits are a small group of capitalists.
Isn't it the height of irony, that once public opinion shifts past the tipping point of support in a conflict, toward being against it, people seem to come out of the woodwork in droves with their "I told you so". Where were they when that US soldier, British soldier, or innocent Iraqi lay dying somewhere in the desert? Where was the righteous indignant outrage as the Bush/Blair administrations effectively dismantled our rights going back to the US Constitution, or even the Magna Carta? Cheering the criminals on is where, and hiding behind flag & bible.
I will have to give the UK credit, however. At least one errant prodigal son has seen the light, and is returning to the fold of trying peace instead of being warlike. Shame on any American who continues to support this administration's war policy, and double shame on any who think we should deepen the quagmire by going into Iran. Your insanity is readily apparent, and you should be seeing a psychiatrist.
in the military as in government, nobody who signs their paycheck on the back is able to tell the truth, nobody who signs paychecks on the front has to.
re: PaulMagillSmith - "the MSM abbrogated its responsibility to research & inform"
What responsibility does MSM have? They are owned by corporations for the purpose of profit. Their only responsiblity is to their shareholders.
MSM news is selling product just like any other show. Now that public opinion runs against the madness, the MSM jumps on the bandwagon (but only to blow their own horn and to sell their snake oil to the credulous).
The British withdrawal from Basra has been rehearsed - almost a hundred years ago. Or is it re-hearsed as they left 80000 as I recall...
simply put, the americans went into iraq to steal the oil. the brits who have mined out the north sea are now net importers of oil which they can barely afford, so they have tagged along, not unlike the little lap dogs as portrayed in the george michael video about tony blair, in order to get some of the booty when it is made available.
the discussion of peak oil notwithstanding, the growing scarcity of the stuff is more and more of a concern to more and more people, and securing a supply has become less and less of a graceful act.
the aussie foreign minister was clear last month that the oil is why they are there.
the 40 air bases being erected over the entire area by the us, who i maintain could care less about the conflict day to day on the ground, are the last and most clear testimony to the american intention.
the americans are pushing the iraqis, not towards political reconciliation, as most observers feel they should, but towards the iraq oil bill which will allow the corporations who run the us to have at the stockpile. their plan is to clean it out to the last drop as fast as they can.
the brits, along for the ride, kept their piece - but now as it looks like the american disgrace will be complete, they are distancing themselves from the train wreck that only the american public cannot see coming.
obviously, they have written off iraq and are going home. something for the americans to think about, i should think!
RE: locust September 4th, 2007 12:39 pm
re: PaulMagillSmith - "the MSM abbrogated its responsibility to research & inform"
"What responsibility does MSM have? They are owned by corporations for the purpose of profit. Their only responsiblity is to their shareholders."
You're absolutely wrong here, Locust. They are 'renters' not 'owners' of 'our' airwaves, and as good tennants have a responsibility not to have loud parties of people shouting out lies that disrupt the peace & dignity of our neighborhoods.
It's a shame not enough people spoke out.
It's also a shame that no one is speaking out now. We said we'd never fight a civil war that wasn't our own. Doesn't anyone else remember?
Am I crazy? Am I deluded? When did this idea become overcome by events?
Neocons all agreed, without qualifying, all panting to go into Iraq, that we would NOT fight their civil war. I wish someone would speak up to THAT now.
We all know this is a war our soldiers can't win, no matter what you think of our soldiers, what they're doing, or the war. We ALL said we'd never do that to them again, leave them for cannon fodder in a war they can't win, no objectives, no mission accomplished. But we are. Right now. Silently. What I can't figure out is why.
We said a civil war would be the end of the Iraq war. Why isn't it? What changed? An actual civil war?? Did I miss something? Is something more fractured and many-headed than a simple two-sided struggle somehow NOT defined AS a civil war?
Aren't we doing exactly what we said, what we ALL said, we'd never do?
Shame the doubters are so quiet even still, especially now that the war drums are beating for the attack on Iran.
The antiwar movement seems dead in the water. Polls show overwhelming numbers support a troop withdrawal, but it ends there; "thank you for taking our poll, enjoy your shopping". "oh thank you, have a nice day".
It is likely that the troops will remain in Iraq indefinitely and that the stalemate will drag on for years. It's highly probable that this administration will begin bombing Iran before too long, with unpredictable but dangerous consequences and, as far as I can tell, very few seem to give a shit. Most just wring their hands, "but what can I do?", and off they go in their SUV's.
Jean Bricmont's article today in counterpunch, "Why Bush can get away with attacking Iran", says it well.
This sentence penned by the author hit me in the face. ____ "Anyone under the illusion that we can still salvage some honour from Iraq..."___ Still?
(That we can still salvage some honour?)
How could any even think of the word 'honour' when speaking of the war Cheney/ Bush/ Rummy and our free press and media, led us into in Iraq. There NEVER was any honour, nor will there ever be any! The best and most appropriate descriptive words that can ever be used in conjunction with this evil and criminal war, is sorrow, absolute wonder, shame, and utter disgrace.
Our government and the British used the most poisonous weapon of mass destruction that has ever been used in the written history of mankind, DU ammo and bombs, their land is contaminated forever. We invaded Iraq for one specific purpose, control of their oil. We have killed over a million civilians, two million more have fled their country and still counting. We have utterly destroyed the country's infrastructure, hospitals, schools, culture and art.___ Honour? ___ May God have mercy on our souls. Perhaps God will, we proclaim we trust God on our money.
"the 40 air bases being erected over the entire area by the us, who i maintain could care less about the conflict day to day on the ground, are the last and most clear testimony to the american intention."
NOT TO MENTION the massive buildup of US Forces on GUAM Island southernmost of the Mariana Islands, Micronesia, western Pacific Ocean being unincorporated U.S. territory; at a cost o approx $30 Billion....complicit with the Japanese to keep CHINA from interfering in this shitty mess...
Can't the US just hire more mercenaries to take over where members of the coalition of the willing are heading home?
Them and the US generals who waited years to speak out.
What a bunch of cowards who waited for their retirement to kick in before giving their opinions.
Part of their job descriptions is to 'serve and protect'. Oh darn, I guess they did - serve and protect the military/industrial complex, that is. Maybe the ex-generals speaking out are the ones who are upset they were not tapped for lucrative jobs.
I could be all wrong about this, and I hope I am. I'm just upset that these remarks were not made sooner, possibly saving many lives.
KEM: Thanks for pointing out the non sequitur of HONOR and DU. The gods will have to sort out relative doses of culpability on that gender bender gift that keeps on "giving."
Historical lessons, current events, and rational interpretation of intellegence have normally precluded egotism & theocracy for major decisions in our republic. Unfortunately, this is not the case now.
The current administration is manipulated by the ego, the energy cartel, & the radical religious right wing to an extent never before experienced in our history. The invasion of Iraq, the plans to provide arms to some Middle East Countries, current suggestion to invade Iran, & the dreadful war on our environment are only some examples.
Unless Americans begin reacting to logic rather than rhetoric, and take back our government from this illegally placed administration now, the rights that we have enjoyed for two centuries may evaporate--and we can blame only ourselves for this
No we werent quiet, we tried with logic and facts to wake up the people, but we were not just ignored, but shunned. Here are some excerpts from my newsletter to the 'friends of Cradle':
March 2003
It is the year 1903, Lord Curzon is addressing the leaders of the Gulf Nations: 'Out of the relations that were thus created over the past 100 years and which by your own consent constituted the British Government - the Guardian of International Peace - there grew up political ties between the Government of India and yourselves [the Gulf states], whereby the British Government became your Overlords and Protectors and you have allegiance with no other power!'
Now we write the year 2003, how will the next generation judge the speeches we make today in the halls of power? News just broke that we are part of the force that will attack Iraq. We all knew it, we prepared ourselves for it... and fought against it, but we were not able to prevent it. [...] [...] page 2
The sanctions and the bombings and the fear of them was accepted by the Iraqi people with graceful stoicism, hoping one day their patience would be rewarded and the sanctions will be lifted. Without the sanctions - the Iraqi people would have had a 'regime change' of their own choice for quite some time, but a physically and mentally weakened nation has to put all its energy into 'coping with circumstance', and outside pressure always strengthen the resolve to withstand.
anyone, who had at some stage of his/her life experienced and endured hardship will know that Pride is a powerful drive to protect ones integrity and dignity, and a person or a nation will go to any length to hide their desperation as long as possible. Before one would expose need, any assets of some value are secretly sold, and weaponry still left after the first Gulf war was most likely sold to raise funds, and to show to the world, your sanctions cannot hurt us. Admitting such actions would have shown a weakened humiliated regime and because of that, just the assumption that there could still be some weapons left is used as a make-believe deterrent, and to pretend that the nation is still strong is one of the most instinctive and natural reactions to collective adversity and pressure. [... ...]
Throughout history, a battle fought against a weakened enemy was seen as maybe necessary but it was nothing to be proud of. A worthy opponent raises the validity of the victory and the level of honour. Today's 'worthy' opponent, who is able and capable of fiercely fighting back is put into the basket reserved for 'diplomacy'. The psyche of a nation already 'softened up' due to sanctions and constant threats is damaged, especially in the eyes of the upcoming generation, when they see their soldiers retreat, surrender or become deserters, begging the victor for mercy and Mars bars. Our soldiers will have to face their sons. [... ...]
We have to stay for a moment in this region. the Western Nation had time to develop 'unchallenged' and undisturbed by an even more developed power, despite quarrels among themselves. the Gulf nations had till now no period to develop free from any outer pressure, culturally and politically, self determination is something the West never envisaged for areas, in which their resources or strategically their national interest lies. The ultimate sin.
[... ...] [... ...]
If fear pushes people or a nation into submission and compliance in order to avoid greater danger, the worst form of trauma sets in, the collective Stockholm syndrome. [...] Parallel to this we find the 'Judas' syndrome, when the will to survive or 'opportunities' pushes people into situations where they become informants, collaborators, or when the need to provide for their families pushes others to work for the invader. When the weapons fall silent... a hidden killing, the punishment... will continue. [...]
Silently the Iraqi people gaze towards the border to Kuwait, where the soldiers of the coalition of the willing are drilled to get battle ready... what a clear and present danger... 'we hear the drums... we can't get out, we can't get out... they're coming...!!! [Lord of the Rings]
------
afterthought: I found the following quote in a book I bought in March 2007:
'Somewhere in Kuwait, March 21. 2003. the troops of the 101st Airborne Division were forming up, preparing to move. As they gathered the last of their gear onto the trucks that would carry them across the Kuwait border and into war with iraq, they were a magnificient sight.'
'All in uniform, taut and fit, talking quietly. The scene reeked of training and discipline, the quiet professionalism of soldiers who have prepped for months and years, who know their moment is at hand...'
General Wesley K. Clark
-----
When we remember, we know the full extend of what has happen to all involved, yours Alexandra
If our leaders had not purposely LIED about the intelligence and the facts prior to invading Iraq, there would not have been need of any doubters or protestors.
I admit being one of the vast majority of Americans. I beleived Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Powell, and our MEDIA. I was unaware of many things that I've become aware of during the past two years. I never heard of DU ammunition until another bloogger, Paul Magill Smith informed me of it. I always believed Gore was screwed in the Florida vote counts and wondered why our Supreme Court didn't order another election there. It was then that I began to awaken.
Hit me in the face, I thought Bush was right in 2002. Bob Woodward's book about the run-up to the Iraqi war really woke me up. Whatever happened to him lately? Anyway, I'm guilty of ignorance, I watched CNN, CNBS, FOX news, read the newspapers and even wished I was young enough to re-enlist. Hell, I was so patriotic, I would have served for nothing to help my free country. ___ Stupid? No. Ignorant and trusting of our government? Yes indeed, as we should be. Should be, but cannot be anymore. Now I'm shamed to say I am an American ___ and that really pisses me off.
Hi Siouxrose, where ya been kid? Yes indeedy, Hounour in Iraq is not the word. It's no wonder The Royal Family refused to allow their Prince to serve there with all of that DU in the air.
Ironic, the Royal Family of Englend owns most of the uranium mines in the world. Their queen hides the shame, under great big hats. We often wonder who really controls our government? It's the ones we defeated in our war of independence.
When we write. this war was about oil, as PaulMagillSmith comments. Americans suppose that the oil shortage and huge price increases we are experiencing were the forseen natural consequense of oil shortage and that we invaded in a flawed attempt to prevent this crimp in our lifestyle. This if true reveals a fatal moral flaw in our society, and the cheap oil policy we as a nation have insisted upon while much of the rest of the world has paid more realistic prices. I however, believe more attention should be paid to Greg Palest as he presents evidence that we invaded not to keep prices low, and keep the supply flowing, but in fact to keep Iraq's oil in the ground and greatly increase price and profit for the oil industry. If we consider this as a possibility, then Cheney's often repeated insistance that this war has been enormously successful seens less like the rantings of a deluded out of touch vice-president and rather the truthful statement of a man thumbing his nose at the American people and acting without conscience toward either the Iraqi's killed and injured in this invasion, not to mention the millions displaced and the devestation to the economy of both Iraq and its neighbors dealing with the refugee crisis or the debt burden our grandchildren in America will pay. All the while we have reduced the burden of tax upon our newly super rich and set in motion the destruction of the middle class in America. How ironic that those who sacrifice the most for this effort are the ones who are loseing so much. God help us, we can't take much more of this arrogant corporate empire building, supported not only by Republicans and neo-cons, but far to many Democratic leaders as well. Unfortunately our front runners for president with a few notable exceptions support our failed policy. I'm not sure which is worse, their moral vision and empirical ambitions or their lack of comprehension of what is actually happening
KEM PATRICK and Siouxrose, get a room already. KEM PATRICK? What is it about you and DU (depleted uranium) that you can't stop referencing too. Ah DUH. What? Did you think you were the first person to uncover the criminal atrocities of war? Oh and BTW I just gave Cee Miracles a reeming, go help her with that voodoo that you do.
AGRONOMO: You mention Hope springs eternal. Thank you, it broght back some old cherished memories. When I was a young boy, my girfriend Hope was a good lookin Tomboy. She had a pet turtle, and when we'd go fishing at the mill pond, hiking across the meadows or clinmbing up in the haymaw, her turtle couldn't keep up with us. So one day Hope attached tractor engine valve springs to the turtles feet. After that her turtle could bound along with us, sprionggg,___ sproinggg,__ sproinggg.
That's where the phrase originated. ___ (Hope sprung a-turtle).
Thank you Siouxrose, for writing so well, that which I don't have the intellect for.
DAMON13. I don't care what you are spewing from your foul and sensless fingers. I'm sure Cee appreciates your reaming, especially coming from one like you. I certainly would not wish for anyone to think you approved of me or of my opinions, any nore than I would appreciate them from Cheney, you obviously are two of a kind. So spew on,I like having solipsists such as yourself speak ill of me. It helps others to know which side of the fence I'm on.
Someday we may meet in person, I would just love to meet you and settle any little differecnes.
See "Iraq for Sale":
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6621486727392146155
Ha ha, you write horrible when you're mad, not to mention the spell check. But I will tell you this, I will not sit on my ass and let you enable irrational new age commentors who do nothing but make progressives look like freaks. BAN ALL RELIGION FROM COMMON DREAMS. We really don't need mystical interpretations to highlight the real atrocities of war.
Yeah DAMON my spelng is often horrible, I lost one eye in Vietnam and have macular degeneration now in the other and have some trouble with the screen here, my auto correct doesn't work. You know, I thought progresives offered suggestions, some wit at times and were decent people. You a progressive? I doubt we would wish to admit it. Mad? On the contrary, the more appropriate word is disgusted.
I've gotta say, Kem, I've completely lost respect for you, but hit you in the face? I can't hit you in the face because you're a blogger bud. Confessions are of little help. You were blinded by the right. Everyone has been in your place at one time in their lives, maybe, but voting for Bush/Cheney???? I for one can't see how it could ever be an intelligent choice. You watched the debates, yes? He had to be stoned or stupid to look that way and respond as he did. Now that you've confessed, take your hits in the face by damon13. And while your at it. Take this, SMACK! And this POW! How could you do this to us? We've lost our country, man? KABLAM! Get your ass out there, and get us our country back. Proverbial kick in the ass.
Many of the people who claim to have opposed the war are collaborators in the war. Many of the people who stated opposition in the past clearly didn't mean it or have retrofitted information to the new reality to appear to have opposed the war.
Resignation is the only acceptable proof of actual opposition. Powell should have resigned rather than that disgusting pack of lies he put out to the media.
Reporters should have resigned rather than repeat the war propaganda.
The powerful and wealthy could have refused to cooperate with the war at little or no cost to themselves.
Members of the National Guard who were caught by surprise by the plan that forced them to serve in this war had only bad choices. Yet some have risked their future refusing to be war criminals in this illegal occupation.
Senators should have filibustered the war provision and the funding bills. They had nothing to lose. If one had done it they would be heroes today.
Actually RUTHRU, I voted for Gore, but I did believe the Bush lies just like the vast majority. What I was attempting to convey was, most of the Americans were duped, including Congress and that is why there were few protests in 2002. As far as you completely losing respect for me, ___ do I care? ___ Nope! Oh, I'm a blogger, but you can find me and my address on the internet if you look hard enough. When you do, call and make yourself known and I'll meet you for your personal kick ass of me. Fair enough tough guy?
Just went to the archves and read all of you blogs Ruthru, you only had a few. I see where I'm not the only one you have little or no respect for. Most of your rants are similar to those of Damon13, little to offer, many cynical, rude remarks. The best one you wrote was you are migrating to Canada soon because you're tired of America. ____ Not soon enough, dont forget to pack your computer tough guy.
RELAX YOU GUYS....
smoke a joint...chill out...we are all supposed to be on the same side.... while you squabble over small stuff the earth burns.... Bushco sit back and laugh...
WE MUST KEEP A UNITED FRONT TO DEFEAT THE REAL ENEMIES OF PEACE....
PEACE TO ALL OF THE PROGRESSIVE THINKERS OF OUR TIME....
SIMONHHH, when I commanded a squadron of troops, there were always a few misfits on the team. When push came to shove, they ususally did their jobs. But they were always disliked by the all time team players.
Thankyou simonhhh September 5th, 2007 1:03 am for bringing us back into focus. For the record I will unerringly stand in defense of Kem Patrick for his stance on DU. From the numerous blogs he has written on CD alone (almost 1,500 or more now) he deserves respect from newcomers such as ruthru , and damon13. How long have ya'll been enjoined in this fight against tyranny? Kem, haven't I posted before that arguing with the foolish is wasted effort? Move on, ALl of you, ok? We have bigger fish to fry.
I think it laudable of Kem that he could see reason and stop supporting the greedy war machine aka MIC (military industrial complex) especially after serving 23 years in the military himself. Some people never see the light, others are constantly swayed by greenbacks, and others are so completely indoctrinated into the mystical religious belief they travel a road straight down to hell, never realizing that by not speaking out against evil they are becoming the thing they have been trained & propagandized to reject. Kem saw the error of his ways and you guys should praise him for a change of direction rather than give him grief.
If he chooses to rant, as I also do, about the dangers to all living things on this planet from the illegal use of the WMD of DU by the military, then it should behoove you guys to come out of your shell of ignorance to do as much research as I know Kem has done. Faced with the facts, if you don't change your tune about this caring, intelligent, informed man, frankly you are idiots. Bluntly stated, he is right on this subject, and YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
Furthermore, Kem fought in a war (Viet Nam), while I fought in the war against the war by protesting. As so many have in America we have come to a peace about this, realizing that while neither of us might have been right in our position, neither of us were wrong, but regarding the current administration of savages we are in complete agreement...they must be stopped! So let's stop all this bickering, and get on with brainstorming to find viable solutions in a common cause, ok? Thanks.
PAULMAGILLSMITH
absolutely spot on mate.... couldn't have said it better myself. and if KEM wants to talk about DU a trillion times it's ok, cos then more people will get to know about it........... i researched this vile product and now abhor the destruction and misery it has brought to many people. if not for reading one of KEM's "rants" i would not have known about it........but i made it my business to do so...........
KEM PATRICK
spot on too about "honour". what bloody honour is there for anyone in this disaster?????????????
What ever happened to Sir Jeramy Greenstock's book that came out several years ago?
Haven't heard a word.
AND SHAME ON YOU ALL! FOR BEING DUPED!
I saw it the minute Bush stepperd out on the NAt stage in New H. ( more like sledded into view like an 8 year old!)
Disclaimer: Nothing wrong with adults sledding, we had many happy times sledding: my kids, my parents, my brothers, & me.) Difference being we were mature, critical thinking adults on holiday. ( except my 2 kids under 12!)
When CHeney CHOSE HIMSELF as VP candidate I was HORRIFIED! Where were all of you?
Gee, I went to bed feeling sort of lonely, sort of wishing I'd never heard of DU. Thanks for the support Paul and Coco, I always did love you two and Siouxrose too. I don't understand her mystics, but I'm not as smart as she and you others are.
Nope, I didn't see all of Bush's faults watching him read his speeches a few times on TV. I didn't care what he said anyway, because I was pretty sure Gore was going to win the election. Which of course he did, only he didn't get to move into the White House.
Shame on us for believng our president, his staff and our press? Okay, shame on us for being duped. Personally, I'm not a wizard and can't read minds, didn't have the CIA reports to read and was ignorant of many things,___ that's me. If I have any 'attributes', I was part of the by far, large majority. Yep we were duped once. But what happended, Bush stole the presidential election twice.
Gee, as smart as you were and must still be RUCOGNIZANT, why didn't you write a book six years ago and warn everybody of what you immediately detected? Bush would have been easily defeated the second time. Think of what you could have done for all of humanity. Ever notice how many Monday morning quarterbacks show up on Monday?
Disappointing to see the recriminations. In a quick review of comments I didn't see a single fascist. But really, why bother to comment at all? Nothing new revealed in the article, nothing new in the comments. It has all been said. And if the Brits now want to distance themselves from our American brownshirt leaders, their repentence should be welcomed. Not that it will make a whit of difference to shrub and company.
But hope springs eternal. There is a demonstration in Washington 15 September. Lots of folks are disillusioned and don't believe that another demo will accomplish much, but maybe a big turnout will put some spine in the backbone of the doormat dems.
A word on CONTEXT brought to you by the allegory of the blind man and the elephant. WHEREVER he makes content with the creature will determine his perception of it. With that being said, I think it's remarkable and an OMEN of positive energy that KEM can share his own transformation. I mean if we are pre-designated to form opposing sides and no one can grow or be transformed through the contact with TRUTH what is the point of any forum of this nature? How dare anyone badger an individual who is willing to show his own increment of consciousness?
DAMON: The poison and attacks you show in this forum represent your own lack of spiritual awareness. ANYONE can collect data, the work of the soul is what takes lifetimes, and your constantly throwing toxic bricks at people here is nothing short of disgusting! I find it powerful to read others' contexts and perspectives that can only grow and enhance my own. If I disagree, I don't have to attack the other person for holding opinions and a perspective distinct from my own. The whole POINT of being progressive is a readiness to respond to new ideas, not to condemn those who do not conform to your rigid M.O.
KEM: As a kindred spirit, you are ALWAYS welcome!