Budget Office Analysis Says War Could Cost $1 Trillion
WASHINGTON — The war in Iraq could ultimately cost well over a trillion dollars — at least double what has already been spent — including the long-term costs of replacing damaged equipment, caring for wounded troops, and aiding the Iraqi government, according to a new government analysis.
The United States has already allocated more than $500 billion on the day-to-day combat operations of what are now 190,000 troops and a variety of reconstruction efforts.
In a report to lawmakers yesterday, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that even under the rosiest scenario — an immediate and substantial reduction of troops — American taxpayers will feel the financial consequences of the war for at least a decade.
The calculations include the estimated cost to leave some US forces behind for at least several years to support the Iraqi government, but they also predict other long-term costs, such as extended medical care and disability compensation for wounded soldiers and survivor’s benefits for the families of the thousands of combat-zone fatalities.
The cost of the war in Iraq and other military operations has soared to the point where “we are now spending on these activities more than 10 percent of all the government’s annually appropriated funds,” said Robert A. Sunshine, the budget office’s assistant director for budget analysis.
Those costs — both to sustain the current mission in Iraq and to pay longer-term “hidden” expenses like troop healthcare and replacement equipment — are far more than US officials advertised when Congress gave President Bush the authority to launch the invasion in March 2003.
At the time, the White House and then-defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld predicted a quick, decisive victory and counted on Iraqi oil revenues to pay for the war. And when Lawrence Lindsey, one of Bush’s top budget advisers, estimated in 2003 that the entire undertaking could cost as much as $200 billion, he was fired.
Even that estimate — which the Bush administration described at the time as far too high — was still well off the mark. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that as of June, up to $500 billion has been spent on combat operations in Iraq.
In the coming years, the price tag will be substantially higher. Testifying before the House Budget Committee yesterday, Sunshine told lawmakers that he used two scenarios — an optimistic one in which most US troops are withdrawn, and another in which a sizable contingent remains for several years — to calculate anticipated costs.
If the United States gradually reduced its troop level in Iraq to 30,000 by 2010, the US Treasury would still have to provide up to $500 billion more to sustain those troops, as well as pay other expenses, he said in the report.
In the alternative scenario — in which 75,000 US troops remain stationed in Iraq over the next five years — the nation would have to pay an additional $900 billion, according to the analysis.
Members of Congress welcomed the report, noting that the Pentagon has requested only annual expenditures and has refused to provide long-term estimates.
When the committee yesterday asked Gordon England, deputy secretary of defense, whether he agreed with the estimates, he maintained that “we don’t have that degree of certainty” about the future costs of the war.
Representative John Spratt a South Carolina Democrat and the Budget Committee chairman, responded that the budget office numbers are “an extrapolation from existing costs. And we’ve got five years of experience, so they’re . . . not building an assumption out of the air. They’re extrapolating from known costs to what future costs are likely to be at certain force levels.”
Some of the future costs will be incurred long after major combat operations end, according to the report.
The 16-page analysis estimated that the medical costs would be more than $9 billion if the United States stations 30,000 troops in Iraq, and would cost almost $13 billion if 75,000 troops remain there for the next several years.
The report estimates that training police and ground forces in Iraq and a relatively smaller number in Afghanistan over the next decade will require at least an additional $50 billion. Meanwhile, the government will have to spend at least $20 billion more for US diplomatic operations, to assist local governments, and to promote economic development in Iraq through 2017 — regardless of how many US troops remain in the country.
Lawmakers expressed concern that the White House is not adequately preparing the country for the financial burden.
Representative James P. McGovern, a Worcester Democrat and a member of the budget panel, said that England couldn’t give a firm answer when asked how much the Pentagon needed to pay for Bush’s decision to dispatch 30,000 more troops to secure Iraq earlier this year. England said the costs the Pentagon anticipated a few months ago for military operations in fiscal year 2008 — about $142 billion — will no longer be enough.
The military will need more money because of the “surge” and the purchase of hundreds of armored vehicles capable of withstanding the roadside bombs responsible for most of the US combat deaths. England said the Pentagon will provide a revised 2008 cost estimate in September.
But McGovern said he is worried about the long-term financial impact of the war, adding that his primary concern is that the United States is borrowing money to pay for it. Some leading economists have predicted that, depending on how long troops remain in Iraq, the endeavor could reach several trillion dollars as a result of more “hidden” costs — including recruiting expenses to replenish the ranks and the lifelong benefits the government pays to veterans.
“It is being paid for on the national credit card,” McGovern said. “It is being put on their backs of our kids and grandkids. That is indefensible.”
McGovern said he is considering proposing that a “war tax” be levied on all Americans to cover the ballooning expenses.
“We should find a way to pay for it so that when this war is over we are not bankrupt,” he said.
© Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
What a total f**king waste! Republicans have totally lost their credibility as far as fiscal whizzes. If they had planned to ruin this country they couldn’t have done a better job. The main problem though is the culture of citizen non-participation - the “American Way of Life” that says you can live comfortably in your own little world, get fat on whatever they feed you, read the daily rag, and think you are a citizen. That has to change!
“In a report to lawmakers yesterday, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that even under the rosiest scenario — an immediate and substantial reduction of troops — American taxpayers will feel the financial consequences of the war for at least a decade.”
… with the exception of those American “taxpayers” who are “our” leaders and their cohorts and have made mega-money from this war and the sale of arms and military equipment for other current and future wars and can look forward to mega-profits on privatized water, corporate farms, genetically modified crops, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, health-care insurers … you name it. Taxes? Wazzat? … not with all the loopholes and off-shore shelters, etc., and the best of the best tax attorneys.
“Our” leaders and their cohorts don’t feel anything now for the vast majority of U.S. citizens and likely won’t feel anything until they die. Their hearts shriveled and shut down years ago. Dick Cheney is the poster boy for that.
It was a grand old flag … the red, white and blue … for a time, here and there … and despite all the glory and accolades we are taught to give to the Founding Fathers, the growing economy of a young nation knowlingly rested on the backs of slaves.
Corrupted when we began, we are coming full circle. The prognosis for this Super Power with its sheeple minions to pick up the tab, as the King Midases count their money and play with their portfolios, doesn’t look good.
“As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there’s a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become victims of the darkness.” Justice William O. Douglas
Imagine if a president announced “We’re going to spend $1 Trillion on art!” They would quarter him and execute his family and erase his existence from all documents to protect future generations.
This is the heist of the century. Basically a tranfer of wealth. For one thing it’s money we don’t have. They will soon be able to say we are so broke we can’t pay you back for all the Social Security money you paid in for your whole careers. While at the same time paying all that money to themselves, now their companies will have control of the regions resources.
At least that’s the way they have it drawn up. If we were smart we would make the perpatrators of this fiasco pay for it. And pay for all the anguish they have caused on top of it.
Strip them of all their wealth, take their citizenship away and exile them.
There should be a worldwide mandate disbanding all standing armies and making private corporations that manufacture war goods 100% illegal. Just let the UN take care of military matters. We could have Swiss-style militias.
As everyone here knows, all that money is wasted and spent on terribly negative endeavors. Such a shame to see our misleaders sowing seeds of ugliness and horror!
When it’s all put into perspective one sees:
1) We are between two major cosmic cycles (pisces & aquarius) - a very difficult time for everyone.
2) The civilization on earth is very young and is ruled by a bunch of ape like men who are blind.
3) There are some excellent leaders who love humanity, truth, justice and peace - who working and waiting in the wings, who will take us out of the darkness of the past - and into the light. They will replace the crooked bastards.
4) All of the new beneficient developments (of the last 100 years) WILL make it easy for a genuine civilization without poverty, hunger or war - to blossom.
5) All will be well.
6) #4 & #5 above are part of a divine plan - a charted course that those who oversee humanity’s evolution from behind the scenes (something like the administration for the earth school) watch and help us to stay more or less on course.
etc. etc.
I know my words are impossible for most to to believe at the present time, but you’ll see. I truly think that in another 1 or 2 hundred years many people will be walking on water, without anyone making a fuss about it.
———————
“the time for war has past…
“Man must change or die.
There is no other course.”
Maitreya, The World Teacher
http://www.Share-International.org
Yes willo - you are right that the debt caused by the Bush Administration will be used as an argument against domestic spending on things we really need.
I had high blood pressure yesterday as Tony Snow told the press corps that the Democrats needed to watch their spending and not frivolously add another $22 billion to the budget. Nobody followed up his response by asking Tony Snow about the $12 billion per month being spent in Iraq.
The Bush Administration is destroying our country on purpose because they don’t want democratic values getting in the way of their favored market values.
Their goal is to send the country into massive debt in order to get rid of democratic programs and processes.
And if you want to send the country into massive debt, what better way than by giving billions to your friends (and father) in the defense and oil industries.
What happened to the “BIG LIE” that the Iraq war would pay for itself via it’s oil? They told us Iraq would pay America back from oil sales - WHAT HAPPENED?
Besides this, all the wasted lives for nothing!
What happened to the “BIG LIE…”
It got in line with all the others.
‘I’m a uniter not a divider’
‘compassionate conservative’
‘no nation building’
‘we don’t torture’
etc.
The trick has been to roll them out, one after the other, too fast and too often for critics to take aim.
They depend upon the American sheeple to get distracted by each succeeding slogan (or if necessary, by a disaster or convenient ‘media moment’)
No money for:
schipa
FDA inspectors
reform of Medicare (single payer universal government run health care)
border protection
occupational saftey
presrvation of archived scientific documents
etc.
Lotsa money for:
Mideast wars
corporate and fat cat tax breaks
“faith based” initiatives
nuclear weapons development
weaponization of outer spece.
So, are you better off today than 7 years ago America?
The trillion dollar figure is an ESTIMATE based on the Iraq occupation ENDING at some point. BushCo has stated more than once that the war on terror is a war without end and Iraq is the epicenter of the war on terror.
The 120 acre fortress (15′ thick walls) disguised as the new US Embassy in Bagdad will serve as the control center for the recently completed military bases in Iraq to “secure” the oil reserves in Iraq and other Asian nations. Heavy military presence will be required until the oil companies pump the last barrel of crude out of Asia, and that could take much longer than estimated by the Budget Office.
Tax the rich — until it HURTS, baby.
$1 trillion? And you were worried about that $4,400 pay raise Congress is thinking of giving itself.
Using campaign spending limits to get America better politicians is the only way to solve America’s prolbems enough.
The title should be “…War Could Cost $1.4 trillion.” The $1 trillion estimate is based on a troop withdrawal soon. The estimate is $1.4 trillion if we stay longer, per the article. I just can’t contemplate how much money that is. Even trying to put it into layman’s terms boggles the mind (see http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Cost-of-War/Cost-of-War-3.html for an example).
It would take one about thirty to thirty two years to count to one billion, with continious counting 24-7. How long would it take a person to count to a trillion? Does the United States even have a trillion dollars in gold and silver?
Oh__ I forgot, if we don’t have it, we can print hundred dollar bills. But I’m not sure if our presses could run off that many a year. So we just borrow it from China and sign another IOU. Hope those guys in China don’t charge high interest on their loans, or come to collect someday. Do they break legs if we can’t pay up?
Thanks for the heads-up - because we had no idea… except for the fact that we already know it’s costing over $2 TRILLION, at least. But, again, thanks…
Anyone who still believes any federal agency hasn’t been infected by the loyalbushie cancer - the one where everything said is an outright total fabrication meant to support yet another loony agenda - is living in “maybe this time” land. As in, maybe this time the “nonpartisan” CBO is providing TRUE facts and figures. Maybe this time the escalation really is working like “they” said. Maybe this time Saudi Arabia really will stop funding terrorists…
Since Economics Nobel Prize Winner, Joseph Stiglitz,a personal acquaintance and former Chief Economist at the World Bank worked out (with a Harvard budget specialist) about two years ago that the “cost” will escalate to $1 trillion, I have been using that figure consistently in my writings. However now it is now OFFICIALLY $1 trillion AND counting.
At say $50 per barrel of oil that Saddam would have sold us the oil ON AVERAGE over at least 10 years, America would have ended up with 20 billion barrels of oil, with Iraq spending about $1.5 trillion to buy American and Western goods and services to generate economic developement. And instead of the immoral and horrendous Iraq War and Occupation, if we had told the mad but totally defanged dictator that he should transfer about half his revenues to the majority Shia to help them economically, then this would have had the most profound positive impact on the ME at almost no cost to America.
Saudi and other Arabs would have made sure he lived up to the bargain, Iran would have become the most pro-US country there even under an ayatollah regime, which, BTW, would have weakened into non-existence as the people became prosperous and highly educated.
And if Israel had behaved as the law of Moses teaches - - “Do unto your neghbour what you would like done to yourself” - - simple commonsense advice - - it would have benefitted tremendously from this huge new market with trillions in oil revenue to spend.
Finally, the world would have been at peace, Darfur and other conflicts resolved (they just discovered a huge undeground lake of fresh water the size of Rhode Island or larger under Darfur), and the world mobilised, co-operating, and with the money and resources to tackle global climate change.
I think, US’s daily consumption is about 25 million barrels of oil, of which about 40% comes from the ME. Thus 20 billion barrels in assured supply would be equal to 2000 days of consumption, or about 6 years, which is what this war has lasted so far without even 1 million barrels per day coming out of Iraq after war/occupation spending of $1 trillion!!. Then also, the destruction of Iraq’s advanced infrastructure to the tune of another $1 trillion (I believe), 1 million Iraqi dead of which 500,000 are children, about 2 million wounded and maimed just as large numbers of American war veterans are, and 4 million external refugees and 8 million internal (OXFAM) would not have occurred. Iraq’s pre-war population was about 25 million. Thus fully 50% of the population have had the most traumatic experiences in their lives, all because some neo-con fascists and their evil, rich, “money-changer” patrons wanted this mayhem, not only for the arms money, but for some deep ethnocentric hatred to kill and maim millions of non white Muslims. why? simply because they are non white Muslims - - convenient “savage” other - - not obsequeous to WESTERN “CIVILIZATION” but proud of their own 6000 year heritage in Mesopotamia, the CRADDLE of WORLD CIVILIZATION.
Now the same nafarious lot is trying to go to war with Iran, because though the American land forces are in dire straits in Iraq, the Air Force and Navy are “rarin” to go kick ass of those “ay-ranian sand niggers” and blow them back to the “stone-age”. Same cast of characters in the gov., same cheer leaders and money-changers, same blood lust, same vampire genes!
WHAT IS THE GODDAMN POINT THAT THESE NEO-CONS AND THEIR RICH FINANCIERS WANT MAKE FOR HEAVEN”S SAKE?? If THE WORLD CATCHES FIRE, YOU WILL BURN ALONG WITH IT NO MATTER HOW MANY BILLIONS YOU HAVE GOT!!!
Peace
Aymon
Editors of CD.
where is my post?
Levying a tax is a GREAT idea - not because i like paying taxes for anything this Guana eating government creates, but because, maybe, just maybe, Americans will get off their fat arses and soft cushions to whine about having to be involved and actually paying for killing people. I say 25 to 50 percent income tax and no exemptions, tax credits or itemizations. Let’s see how long this war lasts!!!!
Aamon you make far too much sense. Are you one of those?
Bet you’ll be on the top of the list. We’re gonna miss you buddy.
This price, one-trillion Dollars, think about that number, is quite possible. Let’s put blame where blame is due ok? No mercy should befall those who made this ancient land uninhabitable for life, via DU! Seriously…some will call this rambling rhetoric, but no…Christian Fundamentalists and Israeli big-nosed pieces of s*** wanted this done to the Iraqi people! And I hope you all pay and pay big time…for generations! I also hope your CEO assets are liquidated over in the USA because quite frankly you do not deserve to be rich! Yeah Dick Cheney and Zionist pieces of s*** (the Holocaust of WW2 should have taught you something and made you learn your place but evidently not! The reality is is that you Zionist scum ARE a threat to World Peace! Oh yes, yes indeed!) I am talking to all of you! You all should make appointments to see plastic surgeons to fix the ugly noses of you bastards to make them look presentable, rather than huge and ugly. After every Jewish person and Zionist sympathizer visits plastic surgeons, get back with the majority of people in the world to explain your innate lack of compassion.
KEM buddy, I know, I know, but I gotta say it. Hopefully some sanity wiil pop into a few more heads than us converts.
If i “disappear’ you and other folks here go after these bastards as the argentinian mothers went after their “disappeared” sons.
Peace
Aymon
Lets see, what could we spend a trillion dollars on? Hmm…maybe universal health care, that they say we cannot afford. To think that our grandchildren will be paying for this stupid illegal war for eons to come is a very sad thing indeed. We seem to have a lot of money for this crap that does America no good, but no money for things that would make a real difference in the everyday lives of all Americans.
The Congressional Budget Office is low balling. Repairs and reparations will run another tarabuck. Perhaps a lot more when George’s 50 billion dollar shower of weapons catches fire. This is more than the poor and former middle class Americans can pay for. What will our Fascist masters do? Repudiate the debt? When this happens I hope we all have a full tank of gas and our savings in Canadian traveler’s cheques…
Richitopia got us into this.
Sir Melvin Cleo-puss, it has taken a long time, but you have finally done it!
I hate you.
I do believe, siouxrose and some other very wonderful people who blog here, and millions of other wonderful people in the world are Jewish. I don’t appreciate what the leaders of Isreal, and or, what our leaders here in America are currently doing, am I guilty of their sins? Really?
Oh, I see. If I live in shit house, I smell like shit. Is that your valued and sooooo intelligent assessment? Screw you Sir Melvin Asshole.
No, his post jumped in there, there is a minor computer glitch with the CD command post this week, Cheney is hacking it.
I’ve never understood why there are so many anti-Jewish “progressives” out there…I know Israel is a war-mongering state, but that’s not an ethnic issue, it’s a capitalist/class issue.
I just hope when Herr Bush destroys democracy completely next year that a few moderate neocons get sent to the gulags too for saying he “might be going a little too far.” That’ll teach them to vote for the worst human being that’s ever lived.
Dumbfuckistan indeed.
Bush will be remembered forever more as the President that ruined the United States… what a legacy.
As for the Jew-basher above… why generalize whole groups of people? It’s the elite with the power and money that run the world, and some of them in fact are Jewish, but let’s not overlook the corrupt Catholics. The Church has even more power than all of Israel- yet, you can’t say all Catholics are bad, or even all Catholic priests. The People are duped by those in power, and then, like blind sheep, they follow along those they think “know best”, and simply baah-baah-baah themselves right over the precipice to their doom. It’s sad, but the power centers of the world help facilitate the dumbing-down of entire populations, by rewarding conformity, and punishing dissent. It’s just easier to go along, get along- and then, it’s too late.
Again… the hate thing: I send you a mental hug, and a wish that you can get past this amazing hate you harbor, which is a lot of energy, misdirected.
i think stiglitz & co estimated final costs at around 2 trillion, assuming there is ever anything final about this.
some of you posters here on CD give me some insight into whether or not any of these creeps in DC, including dems like let’s bomb pakistan obama, do any of these assholes have a PLAN for anything? i don’t mean an after the fact rationalization (”we went into to iraq to democratize the Middle East” or some such BS), but a goal that can be rationally assessed, even if it’s heinous (say, extending american empire; if that’s the goal in iraq, then so far hasn’t it been a miserable failure? wasn’t such a failure predictable?)
the reason i ask is cuz when i read stuff like this article, i am reminded of a simple line from livy’s intro to his history of rome, giving a little survey of why republican rome fell: they loved death & destruction.
is chaos itself the goal, even if it’s in the US economy? love of destruction has overtaken rational goal-setting & planning? i mean, obama is not stupid; how else do you explain the “let’s invade pakistan (or iran)” mentality? suicidal fantasies have overtaken the american elite?
You said it much nicer than I did Collidingrivers.
To borrow from Slavoj Zizek, destruction & chaos are the perverse core of liberal, capitalist democracy, not its corruption.
Madeleine Albright waved off the destruction of a half-million Iraqis in the name of ’sanctions’.
A quote from a certain Russian is worth pondering:
“If the present war arouses among the reactionary Christian socialists, among the whimpering petty bourgeoisie, ONLY horror and fright, ONLY aversion to all use of arms, to bloodshed, death, etc., then we must say: Capitalist society is and has always been HORROR WITHOUT END.”
Kem,
I’m not Jewish but it makes no difference, I was still rather shocked / surprised by the person’s nonsense about ‘big noses’ etc. What kind of infantile remark is that? Shall we also ridicule people with small feet, hairy arms, or green eyes? - Heaven’s, we all have red blood, and that’s all that matters!
Such unnecessary racist daubing of green crayon on the nursery walls, -tsk tsk. The offender ought be sent to the Naughty Corner for a while. - (And I expect his mom will give him a jolly good spanking when he gets home from school!)
(and BTW, he is no ‘Sir’ anything of course, just benighted, -more than Knighted!)
Collidingrivers: Nice post pal, -specially the bit at the end!
Bartleby a scrivener: I’m not a raving loon (honest!) but I do actually now consider that BushCo’s ‘plan’ is simply to wreck human civilisation. Why? –well, for the same reason a psychopath might needlessly torture and kill a perfectly innocent victim: a malevolence force has overtaken them and they have seriously lost any ‘rational’ plot.
_____________________
As I was reading the article I was trying to figure out how many people in impoverished countries all around the world would have benefited from that VAST amount of money which the rabid maniac BuSh has squandered, -(let alone all the impoverished folk in the USA who could have benefited).
Example: My friends doing volunteer teaching work abroad have reported back to me how kids in various countries (Tibet, Africa, etc) are very keen to learn in their little makeshift schools, but many can’t afford a PENCIL to write with.
Can any of us here imagine that??
~ So short of cash as to not even be able to afford a single little stub of *pencil* to aid in their education…
Now flash back to the article, where Satan’s Little Helper, - GWB, has insanely thrown an impossibly large sum of the American People’s money down the pan, -for absolutely no good reason at all.
The guy has got to be one of the most crazed and evil people alive, -with the exception perhaps of his co-conspirators, who likewise seem to want to bring the USA, (and the wider world), - to it’s knees…
____________
Anyone here got God’s out-of-hours Helpline number?
I need to make an urgent request involving a crazed US president, and a very, very deep icy crevasse…
Un-Common Dreams.__ There are written articles about GWB, that Bush used to shove cherry bomb fire crackers down the throats of frogs and watch the frogs explode. He is also credited with shooting his brothers with a B-B gun and torturing college plebs with white hot coat hangers.
Then in his grown up days, he was a military deserter, an alcaholic and drug user until he went into a re-hab clinic. I understand that now he’s married and a born again Christian, he hads gotten over those prior maladies and is now just an egotistical,insane skitzo, with homocidal tendencies. The difference between him and Cheney is,___ Cheney is intelligent.
Aymon - “Israel had behaved as the law of Moses teaches - - “Do unto your neghbour what you would like done to yourself”
The Law of Moses also tech for Genocide. See what Moses wrote about Amalek, and the 7 nations of Canaan.
Also -Why are you obsessed with Israel? The 1 Trillion spending in purly US government fault.
correctivelivens, I think KEM is right,
because I have used the word in quotes before to say what a biggot says, and my posts didn’t make a trip into space and back. I think the computer’s been highjacked by alien digital “terrorists”, sapwned by HAL (Space Oddysey - -remember the music?)
bartleby, you are correct about Joe Stiglitz and the $2tril. I did not use that but used his conservative est. based on an end by 2008 or so, if I rememeber correctly.
Also, folks I have taught econ. and finance for many, many years, and believe me, I could never figure out for the life of me what the “benefit” to anybody at all was from war, mass murder, mayhem etc. I know, I know, you have your ready made answers such as the “arms” merchants (who would need large industrial state gov’t collaboration on the scale you are thinking of), other power brokers and all that. None of that stands up to logical economic scrutiny.
For example, simply take $100 billion from the $1 trillion, and fund advanced research in a portfolio (which is known as risk spreading - - the basis for all our soscial security) of say a 10 different issues:
1. carbon capture and internment; 2. fusion energy (I just read today that a working reactor is being planned for 2016 by ITER) that provides the cleanest Sun-like energy from just hydrogen, water (and their isotopes) without radiation or green house gases; 3. elimination or at least a partial cure for malaria, HIV etc., 4. understanding the working DNA (they have just gone back to the drawing board on this one). 5. understabding protein formation; 6. proper, non wasteful use of living space, mind soothing architecture; landscapping - - all used to ease conlict, anxiety, depression, and so on You get the idea.
When this portfolio pays off, the benefits dwarf any gains and profit made from wars and mayhem. Further, this is a renewable portfolio, and grows peace and prosperity so that every year, almost indefinitely, it will yield more than any destrustive stupidity.
Wars on the other hand, even this so called “perpetual war on terror”, come to an end because everyone gets exhausted in body, mind and resources to feed it. All the material used in bombs etc. is a waste, it leaves DU as KEM PATRICK has shown in so many posts, the most ultimate poison that will also poison the war-makers and war-financiers, their children, and their grand children. So much human resource is killed off and disabled that many major rebuliding projects would stop or never take place because of lack skilled man power, the DU and other poisons, peoples hatreds and so forth. War profits are dissipated fast as the war has exhausted people’s spirits to participate or make the economy grow, unless they know for sure, as in the WWII, that after the end there will be peace. And so a new war is needed to make people active, making the whole enterprise a death spiral.
Simply put, spending $1 trillion on public good - - education, health, housing, poverty reduction, research would yield under any economic calculus one uses, orders of magnitude more benefits to everybody than war, mayhem, vast destruction and bloodshed ever do. This is both an EMPIRICAL and THEORETICAL FACT - - just as night follows day.
So that is why I screamed above - - what is the f. point the the war mongers and their money-changer friends want to make - - that they are both economically dumb and morally completely depraved?
Peace
Aymon
Spent enough yet? That money went to someone somewhere. Gigantic transfer of funds to the military-contractors, eh.
Peace dividend? Get ahead and always something comes to take it, or someone.
Aymon sounds right on.
Thanks Kem,
“…Then in his grown up days, he was a military deserter, an alcoholic and drug user until he went into a re-hab clinic. I understand that now he’s married and a born again Christian…”
- There’s only two things I can’t quite believe in your whole post:
1). That he ever grew up.
2). That he is, -in any shape or form, a Christ-ian.
______
Aymon: Thanks for the latest news about ITER, -Nuclear Fusion is a bit of a pet theme of mine!
Hey! don’t worry about the cost of the war. The “war mongers” have enough plans not only to get back this “capital” they have put on this war, but to make enough profit out of this war.
The US is planning to pump up the Iraqi oil to Haifa Bay. It is also “selling” the arms (that are supposed to be for the Iraqi defence forces) to the sunni and Kurdish militants.
Here is the latest news from Iraq.
“US lost 190,000 guns in Iraq”
Baghdad, Aug. 1: The US government cannot account for 190,000 weapons issued to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, according to an investigation carried out by the government accountability office.
According to the July 31 report, the military “cannot fully account for about 110,000 AK-47 assault rifles, 80,000 pistols, 1,35000 items of body armour and 115,000 helmets reported as issued to Iraqi forces.” The weapons disappeared from records between June 2004 and September 2005, as the military struggled to rebuild the disbanded Iraqi forces from scratch amid mounting attacks from Sunni insurgents and Shia militias.
Since 2004 the military “has not consistently collected supporting records confirming the dates the equipment was received, the quantities of equipment delivered, or the Iraqi units receiving the items,” the report said.
“Since 2006 the command as placed greater emphasis on collecting the supporting documents. However, GAO’s review of the January 2007 property books found continuing problems with missing and incomplete records.” US commanders often accuse foreign powers such as Iran of supplying arms to illegal militias fighting in Iraq, but the report shows they cannot fully account for the hundreds thousands of weapons they brought in themselves. In July, Turkey raised concerns over reports that separatist Kurdish militants launching cross-border raids from northern Iraq had received US-supplied guns supposedly destined for Iraqi security forces. (AFP)
www.asianage.com
Cheer Up!!!!!!!!!!!
I do believe we should cancell the next presidential election and crown a KING. Aymon would be my first choice, Kathyodat next, as
our Queen of course, and any of three of the Paul’s who blog here, we could have a long list of great candidates and vote on it.
For the King’s court Counts and Noa-counts? Any of several who blog here and I will volunteer to be the Court Jester and Siouxrose our spiritual advisor and Un-Common Dreams the speech editor and head of the national media. If I left any names out here, it was only because there are too many good ones to list them all and Claudius is recovering from surgery,__ or maybe just had a baby.__ I forget.
Everyone opposed to the war should watch this video…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3inspkrGVbw
College republicans warhawks too busy to serve or contribute to the efforts in Iraq….
Thanks KEM but I yield the throne to this guy James Wolfensohn, who was the head of the World Bank, when he was shit canned by the other son of wolf - - Wolfowitz and his neo-con pals. See URI Avnery’s article about two days ago on Counter Punch.
Uri says he is the only guy to spend his own money in the millions to achieve peace between those two perpetually quarrleling twins - - the Israelis and Palestinians. Further he has all the progresive instincts we have here on this website.
Gandhi August 1st, 2007 7:42 pm said:
” Don’t worry about the cost of the war. The “war mongers” have enough plans not only to get back this “capital” they have put on this war, but to make enough profit out of this war.”
Actually no. The latter part of your post about the loss of all those weapons makes my point that the unintended consequences of war and mayhem and bloodshed on vast scales are so bad, that the risk it creates for the war-financiers other world wide investments makes all those investments much less valuable, and much more prone to total loss. For example, among those arms that have disappeared, there will be increased likelihood for these losses, as well as the loss of the war makers or their close relatives own lives. Thus they will not enjoy the fruits of their blood money in peace - - they never do.
An analogy for a big,bloody war would be big meteorite falling with massive impact in the Pacific Ocean. The area surrounding the impact may be surrealy calm after the impact, but the radial tsunami created would wipe out all the coastal investments of the arms fincanciers as well as others who then will seek revenge on the nut case meteorite thrower.
These are called the Laws of Chaos and Unintended consequences in science, and in Indian civilization - - Karma. Increasing world wide risk is never beneficial to anybody, including the risk makers. It’s as simple as that to state but quite difficult to model.
Peace
Aymon
Yes, Mr. Bush is raping our treasury. And yes, our tax dollars could be re-invested back into our economy.
The fact is that war is a perfect way of transferring resources and money from hard-working Americans to the supper rich.
The “Mad Bomber” does not care:
-That this war is economically bleeding our country to death. We are spending $12Billion a month on illegal wars. Not mention “shut up” money to our Puppet Governments in the Middle East. How long can this go on?
-That every type of government program is under funded. Consequently, Private companies and buying our schools, roads, bridges, water agencies, etc.
-That, because of his genocidal rampages, this country has become the biggest terrorist in existence. The Unites States, along with Israel, are considered the biggest threat to world peace.
It boggles my mind why some Americans still support Bush and his wars. When George bush is stealing their tax dollars and giving them to his rich buddies!!! In addition, he has turned our great country into a police state.
From this stand point, the wars have been an overwhelming success. Hey, it’s been so good that Iran in already in our cross-hairs.
How much is a trillion? A trillion is a round trip to sun, measured in feet.
The trillion is bad enough, but to do it in an immoral occupation and war crimes is evil.
The conservative nature of the type of calculations the budget office is required to do would leave room for more costs to come especially considering there appears to be no end to the occupation.
The green graphic that has a one followed by nine zeros represents a billion. A trillion is one followed by 12 zeros. A trillion is 1000 billion.
Oh Wow!!! __ Framante, you made my day. I’m not good at math, never was. I thought a trillion was a billion times a billion. That figure you gave isn’t near as much as I thought it was. What’s the problem here?
Of course, Guliper up there sort of spoils my elation.___ Shit.
The Neocons of yesteryear hated Roosevelt for providing a safety net for the American People. Their idea was that the robber barons, or “Captains of Industry,” as they preferred to be called should have it all. There should be no workers rights, no unions, no help for the elderly or the sick. In their minds, the people should be standing in their rags with their hands out for whatever largess might be tossed to them from the passing carriages.
The new Neocons have been trying to get rid of social security, medicare, educational aid, housing assistance, and any other social legislation. They can’t vote it out, for that is political suicide, but they have figured out a way and it is working beautifully. Give the treasure of the United States to the wealthy through tax breaks and other giveaways, start a war and give huge sums to the military (of course the arms makers profit, such as the Carlyle Group, and it finds its way back to the Cheney/Bush Gang)
One fine day, the government says, as it turns its pockets inside out, “Sorry folks, there is no more social security, no medicare, no housing authority, no educational funding. We’re broke! Sorry about that.”
And We the People will find ourselves standing, once more, at the side of the road in our rags, hands outstretched, waiting for some largess, as the limos drive by.
And the rich will smile from inside their limos and say, “All is right with the world, once again,”
Well when that happened in France, the king and queen and their counts and noa counts, were impeached. On their way up the wooden steps to the mechanical hatchet, those who were still breathng were not smiling. We don’t have to go that far, but impeachment would be productive. The only man who is holding that up, is Congressman Conyers. It ain’t Nancy anymore, it’s Conyers.
a thousand billion
is not much
in
yen
or lira
tis the way the debt will be paid..
ken
KEM
British trillion (no longer used) was million times billion.
US Billion (cheaper) is 1000 billion,
or 1000 x 1000 x 1000 x 1000 = million times million
FOLKS;
I JUST NOTICED! THE BIG FIGURE IN GREEN IS WRONG!! THAT IS ONLY ONE BILLION.
A TRILLION IS 1000 BILLIONS, AND SO ADD ANOTHER THREE ZEROES TO GET THE TRILLION AS:
1,000,000,000,000.00
That is about:
$3,500 for every man, woman and child in America ( which has 300 million people).
Just $100 from there would take care of all the medical needs of all children in America, or eradicate poverty in US
Happy counting
aymon
I am going to sell my citizenship on Ebay. I will be offering it to anyone in Greece that wants to take my place as an American. I could start a new reality show called “Trading Nations” and see if people from other countries can do a better job as a citizen than most Americans.
I trillion of our hard earned tax dollars. Seems like we need a tax revolt. If congress wont stop the funding maybe we should figure out how we can stop the deductions and resume pay after the war ends.
Kem:
“… and I will volunteer to be the Court Jester and Siouxrose our spiritual advisor and Un-Common Dreams the speech editor and head of the national media.”
~ [Can I swap with you Kem? I fear I’d send the nation quickly to sleep with my over-long speeches and incomprehensible media broadcasts!]
This disnumerate thanks the number crunchers here for elucidation.
~ Whichever way we cut it, even *1* dollar spent on the government’s *sinful* wars is far too much.
And thanks for the mention of karma, Aymon. I strongly believe that to be an unerring Law in the universe: “As ye sow, so shall ye reap!”
Through it’s present actions of sowing the venomous seeds of violence and hatred all across the planet, the poor USA is going to reap a very bitter harvest indeed…
One small comfort in that ominous forecast is that at least Karma is ’site specific’ – meaning that those who are *most* responsible, will be most affected over time. Such a huge ‘pay-back time’ couldn’t possibly be fitted into just one lifetime, they’ll need a ‘trillion-and-one’ lives,
(-that’s 1,000,000,000,000.01?) to rework / repay, for all their many indecent crimes against humanity…
The main perpetrators, -such as the worthless idiots at the helm will not, -cannot- ever escape the divine law. They are incontrovertibly, very, VERY doomed.
- Let it be.
It was their own demented decision to act in such a reprehensible way towards their fellow man.
And woman.
-And many innocent children.
No one *forced* them to offend God and vandalise Eden with their insane wars…
…
…
I’m struck by how hard it is for people to wrap their heads around a quantity like 1 Trillion. As if to represent the innumeracy we suffer from, the graphic that has been posted in the article is missing three zeroes… (”$1,000,000,000.00″ that’s only a billion).
IRAQ THE HIDDEN COST OF WAR IS 2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED
by Andrew Stephen
Published 12 March 2007: http://www.newstatesman.com/200703120024
“America won’t simply be paying with its dead. The Pentagon is trying to silence economists who predict that several decades of care for the wounded will amount to an unbelievable $2.5 trillion”.
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
2.5 TRILLION ACCRUED THE TRUE COST OF IRAQ WAR
FULL TEXT: New Lancet Report, Iraq 2003-2006
category international | anti-war | other press author Thursday October 12, 2006 13:17author by redjade
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/78999
several of you commented on this above, but perhaps the most important thing about this war is precisely to WASTE RESOURCES. why? Orwell 1984: the purpose of warfare is to maintain the class structure of society.
aymon made a list of possible things that could be done w/2 trillion dollars. the possibilities boggle the mind.
but using wealth for social improvement would ultimately lead to the “master of the universe” being dethroned.
better to manufacture perpetual war than for relative socio-economic equality to be achieved.
the higher you are, the colder it gets-melville
Has anyone figured the cost if we stay in Iraq for three more years,__ how abur six? I also wonder how much each dead human over there, including all of the troops, is worth in dollars?
I also wonder how much money Halliburton has pocketed since the war first began and how much the CEO of that swell outfit earns a year,___ or a day?
Un Common Dreams, Okay. Kathy will have to be our Queen since Aymon chickened out, he can be the Finance Minister. We’ll sell the White House, Pentagon and the Capitol building to China for the trillions we owe them and they can have a Green Zone Embassy right here in Washington DC. You know, that ain’t a bad idea.
If Kathy backs away, We’ll put Robin Williams in there for our King. __ Now that really is a good idea.
Mosul to Haifa pipeline
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=332835
Top Ten List:Better Ways to Spend One Trillion Dollars in the U.S.
1. Help Hurricane Katrina victims and rebuild New Orleans
2. Provide health care for the uninsured
3. Revitalize all public schools with state of the art tools and campuses
Others, please contribute.
Wdmax! Brilliant concept for a reality show. Problem is, I don’t think you would have many takers. Well, actually, you would. You’d put coyotes out of business and have many Mexicans bidding furiously for that piece of paper. Trouble is, you’d have to live in Mexico.
I’d be interested in swapping with anyone from Amsterdam. I may just head there anyway.
One final comment: Please copy and paste this headline/link and put it in an email to your elected senators and representatives. PLEASE!!! Put it on your blogs and websites.
Mack: Top ten list.
1. Initiate a massive program to put our electrical needs on wind /solar energy, and shut down every nuke and coal fired plant in the country. It would create millions of good paying jobs and we’d clean up the atmosphere and prove to the entire world we can be decent.
2. Ban the use of all of OUR weapons of mass destruction, starting with depleted uranium.
Like Mack and others, I can’t stop thinking about the trillion dollars (and counting), not to mention hundreds of billions or trillions of corporate welfare as well, instead going to all the important things that never have enough money (in no particular order):
universal preschool through graduate school education
universal healthcare
universal broadband
universal housing
building, maintaining, and strengthening infrastructure (bridges, levees, dams, roads, tunnels, buildings, schools, hospitals, parks, pipes, sewers, lights, etc.)
cleaning up all the superfund and other polluted sites
creating more jobs with living wages
hiring more teachers and tutors
hiring mentors, big brothers/sisters
hiring more doctors and nurses
hiring more cops and firefighters
hiring more park rangers
building more housing
investing in array of renewable energies
investing in basic science and research and development
investing more in AIDS and cancer research
investing more in organic agriculture
expanding mass transportation
parks and playgrounds
hospitals and clinics
promoting art, music, theatre, etc.
promoting foreign language learning and study abroad
eradicating poverty in this country
providing non-military foreign aid to help the poor of the world
eliminating hunger and homelessness
eradicating malaria and other scourges of the world
cleaning up the water supply
hiring more inspectors
clearing landmines leftover from past wars
treating veterans with better care
public financing of elections
parental leave
day care
PBS & NPR
reducing the national debt and eventually creating a surplus
Of course we’ll pay for it with tax cuts. Unfortunately the tax cuts will be for only the top 2% of the richest Americans. The rest will see tax increases. That increase of your minimum wage will be taxed right back to pay for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Has anyone here suggested increasing the corporate taxes? I’m sure the fatcats in our government don’t even want to think about that. After all, they’re the ones who pay for their votes and campaign to get them elected.
@mackTN: I also like to imagine what the United States could have done with ONE TRILLION DOLLARS:
Switch the US from oil to hydrogen power. (Wired estimated it would cost $10 billion.)
Save lives in Darfur.
Improve our failing plumbing/sewer infrastructure.
Pay for research to increase our fuel-efficiency (so we don’t have to be the nation with the lowest mileage standards).
Fund research on better blight-resistant wheat to feed the world. (See Norman Borlaug.)
Fund better education for children who are falling behind the rest of the world in math and science.
Fund cancer and heart disease research.
You’re missing 3 zeros
The number in green is 1 billion
1 trillion is 1,000,000,000,000.00
no need to downplay their waste
True Majority in Action has a short video clip which explains what is going on and gives a simple way to solve the problem.
http://act.truemajority.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=WCeqJvQJ%2By2XHkRP%2FcayUA%3D%3D
It really puts things into a simple perspective.
Thanks libertas, I joined immediately and encourage everyone to check it out.
Let’s not forget you and I are PAYING the trillion, big business is COLLECTING the trillion.
“1. carbon capture and internment; 2. fusion energy (I just read today that a working reactor is being planned for 2016 by ITER) that provides the cleanest Sun-like energy from just hydrogen, water (and their isotopes) without radiation or green house gases; 3. elimination or at least a partial cure for malaria, HIV etc., 4. understanding the working DNA (they have just gone back to the drawing board on this one). 5. understabding protein formation; 6. proper, non wasteful use of living space, mind soothing architecture; landscapping - - all used to ease conlict, anxiety, depression, and so on You get the idea.”
Those are certainly some things I haven’t thought about doing with a trillion bucks there aymon. That’s why I like having you around here even though you remind me of Professor Kingsfield at times.
We can all think of things that can be done with a cool trillion. As can the fatcats in Washington. They’re using our tax dollars to make a killing for themselves. They aren’t financial klutzes. They’re criminal masterminds.
Compare conservative uses of the trillion to proposed liberal uses. Who has the moral high ground?
All this talk of God from the right has never been anything but a smoke screen.