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How to Push Obama
On November 4, the American people by a popular majority of more than eight million votes selected as their new President a Democratic contender who had been attacked by his Republican foe as a radical who "began his campaign in the liberal left lane of politics and has never left it."
If only. In truth, Barack Obama was never the Che Guevara in pinstripes that the rightwing attack machine conjured up. His record on Capitol Hill was never "more liberal than a Senator who calls himself a socialist [Vermont's Bernie Sanders]," as John McCain wheezed at the last stops of a dying campaign. And he has never even been in competition for the title bestowed upon him by former Senator Fred Thompson during last summer's Republican National Convention: "the most liberal . . . nominee to ever run for President."
Thompson had apparently forgotten not just George McGovern but Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis, all of whom sought the Presidency as more left-leaning contenders than did Obama in 2008. And, as McGovern, an able historian, himself reminds us: Franklin Roosevelt put contemporary Democrats to shame when it came to embracing and advancing radical notions.
For today's liberals and progressives, who find themselves moving from the comfortably predictable opposition stance of the Bush-Cheney interregnum to the more challenging position of dealing with the first Democratic President elected with something akin to a mandate since Lyndon Johnson in 1964, it is important to see Barack Obama for who he is and his admini-stration for what it can be. The best way to do this is not by listening to Obama's Republican detractors-or to the lite-Republicans of the Washington Democratic establishment-but by hearing the President- elect in his own words.
After he secured the delegates required to claim the Democratic nomination, Obama found himself at a town hall meeting in suburban Atlanta, where he was grilled about whether-having run as a primary-season progressive-he was now shifting to the center.
The Senator was clearly offended by the suggestion. "Let me talk about the broader issue, this whole notion that I am shifting to the center or that I'm flip-flopping or this or that or the other," he began. "You know, the people who say this apparently haven't been listening to me."
Obama continued: "I am somebody who is no doubt progressive. I believe in a tax code that we need to make more fair. I believe in universal health care. I believe in making college affordable. I believe in paying our teachers more money. I believe in early childhood education. I believe in a whole lot of things that make me progressive."
Those were not casually chosen words. Barack Obama knows exactly what it means to say he is a "progressive." When he does so, he is not merely avoiding the word "liberal," as the sillier of his rightwing critics like to claim. Obama actually understands the subtle nuances of the American left. This is a man who moved to Chicago to be part of the political moment that began with the 1983 election of leftie Congressman Harold Washington as the city's first African American mayor, who studied the organizing techniques of Saul "Rules for Radicals" Alinsky, who worked with proudly radical labor leaders to defend basic industries and avert layoffs, who used his Harvard-minted legal skills to fight for expanded voting rights, who was mentored by civil libertarian legislator and federal judge Abner Mikva, who discussed the intricacies of Middle East policy with Edward Said and Rashid Khalidi, and who learned about single-payer health care from his old friend and neighbor Dr. Quentin Young, the longtime coordinator of Physicians for a National Health Program. And, famously, Obama did not just make anti-war sounds before Iraq was invaded, he appeared at an anti-war rally in downtown Chicago with a "War Is Not an Option" sign waving at his side.
Obama knows not just the rough outlines of the left-labor-liberal-progressive agenda, but the specifics. He does not need to be presented with progressive ideas for responding appropriately to an economic downturn, to environmental and energy challenges, to global crises and democratic dysfunctions. He has, over the better part of a quarter century, spoken of, written about, and campaigned for them.
I first covered Obama a dozen years ago, when he was running for the Illinois state senate as a candidate endorsed by the New Party, the labor-left movement of the mid-1990s that declared "the social, economic, and political progress of the United States requires a democratic revolution in America-the return of power to the people." When we spoke together at New Party events in those days, he was blunt about his desire to move the Democratic Party off the cautious center where Bill Clinton had wedged it. And when we spoke in the years that followed, as he positioned himself for a 2004 U.S. Senate run, Obama told me that he saw Wisconsin Democrat Russ Feingold-the lone dissenter against the Patriot Act-as the best role model in the chamber.
So why not pop the champagne corks and celebrate Obama's nomination and election as a victory for what the late Paul Wellstone described as "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"? Because knowing the ideals and values of the left is not the same as practicing them. As a Senator, Obama did not take Feingold as a role model. In fact, they differed on essential constitutional, trade, and Presidential accountability issues, with Obama consistently taking more cautiously centrist positions. One of Obama's first votes in the Senate was to confirm Condoleezza Rice as Secretary of State. Dr. Young wrote to his friend. "I told him I was disappointed in him," the veteran campaigner for peace and social and economic justice recalled. "Rice was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with this Administration. So, he called me back and he said: ‘Why didn't you pick up the phone and call me? Do you think Bush would ever send to the Senate a nominee for Secretary of State who I could vote for? I said: ‘You ara the constitutional lawyer. It's about advice and consent, right? You should have denied him your consent.' "
Young was, of course, right. But the lesson that should be taken away from the Rice vote, and from the many disappointments that have followed it, ought not be that Obama is a hopeless case. In fact, quite the opposite. In that conversation with Young, the Senator outlined the relationship that the left ought to develop with a powerful but as yet ill-defined President.
Obama was nominated and elected in 2008 by progressives, both younger tech-savvy activists who made his candidacy an early favorite of the blogosphere and old-school liberal precinct walkers who saw in his candidacy an extension of the frustrating work of opposing all that was Bush and Cheney. The Senator won the Democratic nomination because he was the only first-tier contender who could say that he had opposed authorizing Bush to take the country to war with Iraq. In the Iowa caucuses that would define the 2008 race, those anti-war credentials, above all other factors, made the young Senator from Illinois a contender.
Similarly, as he campaigned in key states such as Wisconsin, Obama's call for a new approach to free trade agreements and for massive infrastructure investments allowed him to secure backing from labor and liberal farm activists at critical stages in the process. The progressives who committed to Obama early on were the essential foot soldiers of his long march through the caucuses, the primaries, and the fall campaign. These activists formed a base within the campaign and the Democratic Party, centered on but not limited to the Obama team's quasi-open website and blog, ww.MyBarackObama.com, which did not always cheerlead for the candidate. In June, when Obama broke with Feingold and other Senate progressives to support Bush's rewrite of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the Senator felt enough heat from his own and independent netroots sites that he was compelled to explain himself, making what Obama described as a "firm pledge" that he would revisit the issue as President to shore up privacy protections.
What Internet activists such as OpenLeft.com's Matt Stoller and Firedoglake.com's Jane Hamsher did during the FISA fight was roughly equivalent to what Obama told Dr. Young to do back in 2005: "Pick up the phone and call me." They were undermined by a rally-round-the-candidate mentality that protected Obama during the campaign season. Yet netroots activists made themselves heard and earned a response from candidate Obama. And they can do much more with respect to President Obama. As Hamsher notes, "We can get the public engaged."
And so they must, especially with that portion of the public that took seriously the candidate's promise of "change we can believe in." But to do this effectively, activists cannot wait for Obama to define the playing field. They must assume that he knows what they know. And this requires a radically different approach than the left took to Southern centrist Democratic Presidents such as Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter.
The way to influence Obama and his Administration is to speak not so much to him as to America. Get out ahead of the new President, and of his spin-drive communications team. Highlight the right appointees and the right responses to deal with the challenges that matter most. Don't just critique, but rather propose. Advance big ideas and organize on their behalf; identify allies in federal agencies, especially in Congress, and work with them to dial up the pressure for progress. Don't expect Obama or his aides to do the left thing. Indeed, take a lesson from rightwing pressure groups in their dealings with Republican administrations and recognize that it is always better to build the bandwagon than to jump on board one that is crafted with the tools of compromise.
Smart groups and individuals are already at it. The United Steelworkers union has been way ahead of the curve in critiquing the financial services bailout and in working with Congressional allies such as Ohioans Marcy Kaptur and Dennis Kucinich to challenge the basic assumptions of a top-down bailout. The Laborers union has been promoting a fully developed infrastructure-investment plan that represents a smart stimulus. The American Civil Liberties Union is already prodding Obama to keep a series of promises he made during the campaign with regard to civil liberties and abuses of executive power, and providing concrete examples of how he can do so. The ACLU and other groups will be working with members of the Senate Judiciary Committee such as Feingold to assure that Obama's Justice Department nominees are asked the right questions.
Perhaps most impressive are the moves made by the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee, Physicians for a National Health Program, and Progressive Democrats of America to ensure that the option of single-payer is not forgotten as Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi establish their domestic policy priorities. To that end, sixty activists from these and allied groups met one week after Election Day at the AFL-CIO headquarters in Washington with Michigan Congressman John Conyers, an early Obama backer and the chief House proponent of real reform, to forge a Single-Payer Healthcare Alliance and plot specific strategies for influencing the new Administration and Congress.
The point won't be to teach Obama about single-payer. Less than six years ago, he told the Illinois AFLCIO: "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody . . . a singlepayer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that's what I'd like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House."
Since then, Democrats have taken back the House, the Senate, and the White House. The man who set those prerequisites in 2003 will sit in the Oval Office in 2009. But change didn't just come to Washington. It came to Barack Obama. His statements, his strategies, and his appointments evidence a caution born of the political and structural pressures faced by Presidential contenders and Presidents-elect. Whether the previous, more progressive Obama still exists within the man who will take the oath of office on January 20 remains to be seen. But the only way to determine if Obama really is the progressive he claimed as recently as last summer to be is to push not just Obama but the public.
Franklin Roosevelt's example is useful here. After his election in 1932, FDR met with Sidney Hillman and other labor leaders, many of them active Socialists with whom he had worked over the past decade or more. Hillman and his allies arrived with plans they wanted the new President to implement. Roosevelt told them: "I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it."
It is reasonable for progressives to assume that Barack Obama agrees with them on many funda-mental issues. He has said as much.
It is equally reasonable for progressives to assume that Barack Obama wants to do the right thing. But it is necessary for progressives to understand that, as with Roosevelt, they will have to make Obama do it.
- Posted in




180 Comments so far
Show AllLooks like he'll need a lot of pushing. Outside of his appointments for Secretary of Labor and the Office of Legal Counsel, it looks like round three of Clintonism. Say it ain't so . . . please.
By the same token, Obama distinguished himself from Clinton--casting the DLC centrist approach as part of the failed strategy of the past that was partially responsible for forging the present course--the notion of change was an over-arching break away from political gamesmanship with little gain.
This backing away revisionism is giving Obama a pass. If voters wanted more Clinton they would've voted them back.
As it is Obama strikes me like he is playing a role, first as a candidate and now like some idealized model based on historical mythology--posturing as Lincolnesque, but there is not alot of substance there.
He will get his ass kicked in no time. Just wait.
Obama's silence on Gaza and his cabinet choices bode ill for any real progress but then FDR was no progressive either. It took a near revolution to move FDR and it will take a lot of pressure from below to get through to Obama.
The Jaded Prole
That's what Obama has been saying. He needs to be made to bend our way.
My oath: For every 10 postings I make on Common Dreams, I will do one concrete thing to make my voice heard, including, but not limited to: writing one letter or making one phone call to a newspaper, my mis-representative in Congress (which I just did), or Obama; marching in protest; or creating an act of civil disobedience. Not a bad number considering how often I spout off here.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
als
"Mis-representatives" ... LOL ... touche' ... And there are always tons of petitions to sign online and plenty of opportunities to fill up itsy-bitsy letter boxes with comments via amazing numbers of online orgs.
For the lazy, maybe.
I suggest actual voice and face meetings and using our feet.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Good article. McCain whined, he didn't wheeze.(use of wheeze is shorthand for age thing.) I like the last several paragraphs and the basic position of groups making the US public aware. On the other hand, in an interview on DemocracyNow, Adam Cohen, author of a new book on FDR and the New Deal,Jan. 9, 2009,Friday, said that it was people getting to "insiders" (not his words, my interpretation), such as Frances Perkins, who had FDR's ear, that got changes. Also, that there were progressives/liberals, use your own name for them, in the FDR circle, or near it, and I don't yet hear of a parallel with Obama's circle. www.democracynow.org for interview last Friday, with Adam Cohen. Transcript online,free. (I don't know how correct Cohen is and I'd love to hear someone like Zinn address it also. Not to knock the book, but add and corroborate.)
Concrete suggestions. This is what we wanted to see BEFORE the election, but, as Nichols admits, no one would provide.
I'm not convinced that Obama is "basically" progressive. I think he's good at saying what we want to hear, and knows what that is. The picture in the article fits that just as well.
But it's worth a try. And it's especially important for the "progressives" who campaigned for him, despite his actual positions and votes.
Good luck.
Oregoncharles
"It is equally reasonable for progressives to assume that Barack Obama wants to do the right thing. But it is necessary for progressives to understand that, as with Roosevelt, they will have to make Obama do it."
The question is, not whether Obama will be the progressive he claimed to be, but whether progressives will be the engaged citizens we claim to be. Or...have we capitulated that part already?
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Economic and social conditions are so dire that Obama does not have time on his side to prove his intent. He needs to be running full throttle from Day 1, get a good nights sleep each night and let Hillary take the 3 AM phone calls.
What you see in the first hundred days is what you will get.
"What you see in the first hundred days is what you will get."
I agree with that part.
The onus is on Obama to take the risk and be bold. That is, if he truly wants real change.
And if he does anything truly bold it will be soon.
Either way, he can't hide behind the excuse that people just didn't make him do it. Whether there is a movement that pushes him or not is another question.
Given what I've seen of Obama so far, I doubt he will be willing to take the risk. But that's just my intuition.
.The most charitable thing I can say about President-Elect Obama is that he seems genuinely concerned about running a bipartisan administration. The most critical thing I can say about him is that he is trying to run a bipartisan administration.
There are great principles involved here, there is a nation reeling from an administration that savaged the constitution, embarrassed this country before the entire world, refused its obligations to regulate commerce thus bringing us to the edge of financial ruin, and was guilty of war crimes.
The solutions to this myriad "trifecta" do not lie with bipartisan, middle of the road attempts to please everyone. The solutions must involve restoring the rule of law, first and foremost. That can only be accomplished by a complete and thorough investigation into every charge, and , should the evidence be present, fair trials for all involved, no matter what party or how high the office held.
If we are not a nation of laws then we are a lawless nation. Today, Obama urged Bush to release the second 350 Billion dollar welfare payment to our financial institutions. This despite the clear evidence that the first payment was not used for its intended purpose, that the credit crunch was not eased whatsoever and the foreclosure rate was not slowed at all. There is still no rule in place for the use of that enormous payout so one might rightly assume that we the people will see no benefit from the use of what is our money.
This bodes little good for the folks who seek a progressive agenda from the new administration I would conjecture.....and the sad truth is that despite all the bipartisan overtures Obama will get savaged by the right anyway.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Good point regarding the 350 billion. It dosn't exactly increase any confidence that you can "push" Obama to be progressive. In fact, it seems to confirm the opposite.
"This bodes little good for the folks who seek a progressive agenda from the new administration I would conjecture.....and the sad truth is that despite all the bipartisan overtures Obama will get savaged by the right anyway."
He'll get savaged by everybody. Comes with the job.
Agree with most of the rest of it...sigh... I'm not throwing in the towel, though.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
.Please never ever throw in the towel, Ted, because, when good folks do that we are well and truly doomed.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Sioux Rose
ARDEE: One of your best postings ever, and I particularly like and applaud the mention of nation of laws as opposed to the zero credibility/lawless status.
"The most charitable thing I can say about President-Elect Obama is that he seems genuinely concerned about running a bipartisan administration. The most critical thing I can say about him is that he is trying to run a bipartisan administration."
Talk about an intelligent comment! This is it.
"The solutions to this myriad "trifecta" do not lie with bipartisan, middle of the road attempts to please everyone. The solutions must involve restoring the rule of law, first and foremost."
Absolutely. I'd say the most important thing Obama could and should accomplish.
"If we are not a nation of laws then we are a lawless nation."
Absolutely.
And we cannot have selective compliance to our laws. Neither where we disagree on illegal immigration nor in our government per se where we agree there are abuses. Nor in the prosecution of economic crimes which seem to decrease in punishment in proportion to the size of the amount stolen. Larger the amount, the less the punishment.
Obama is going to be savaged by both sides as already suggested, but if he is the man for the job, he will insist on a non-partisan administration and he will ignore the crys from both sides. (We hope)
"Obama urged Bush to release the second 350 Billion dollar welfare payment to our financial institutions. This despite the clear evidence that the first payment was not used for its intended purpose, that the credit crunch was not eased whatsoever and the foreclosure rate was not slowed at all. There is still no rule in place for the use of that enormous payout so one might rightly assume that we the people will see no benefit from the use of what is our money."
But.....this is an excellent point and gives you pause in considering.....
als
"Selective compliance" is a euphemism for DOUBLE STANDARDS. Let's call a spade a spade and end the habit of beating around the Bushit (sic). Again, I think the biggest and most atrocious double standard is embedded in the "legal person" status of Corporations, across the board. ALL of the suffering and atrocities, destruction and imbalances have their roots in this gross falsity. "Never have so many suffered for the sake of so few." ~Eduardo Galleano, UPSIDE DOWN
This is nothing new. The upside of down is that it is a dinosaur and cannot survive. Unfortunately, it could also take all of the rest of us down in it's suicidal wake if WE do nothing.
.I would thank both siouxrose and you, Thomas, for your far too kind words. Esepcially as I have been rather unkind to your opinions in the past. You demonstrate much to be envied.
Not to mention that you both win points for praising this egomaniac!
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Ardee
"Esepcially as I have been rather unkind to your opinions in the past."
Does this mean that you will only have kind and laudatory things to say about my opinions in the future?
That thud you heard was me hitting the floor after dying of laughter.
.Could be
Are you coming over to the light?
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
How soon they forget....I'm waiting for you , remember?
.It is definitely your turn to be Darth Vader...
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Crap...my luck has run out. I never wanted to look like Cheney, but if its my turn....fairs, fair. Sigh.
W. Truth
It would be fantastic if someone could suggest to President Barack Obama, the great ideas, learned editorals and opinions offered at Common Dreams.org
I certainly endorse the Nichols view of the necessity of constant political activation of progressives to "push" Obama; what else, really, do we have? But let us not be seduced into satisfaction in the way suggested by Nichols when activists "earned a response" from Obama, after which he proceeded to act against their demands. Did that response have a chilling effect on further "push" efforts? We don't really need to keep hearing that Obama will move toward, for example, single payer health care or NAFTA reform "when the time is right" because this is his ultimate "intention." In other words, we can't be complacent about our efforts in having "picked up the phone" when the response is going to be "I really which I could, but has to be later." That's just the death of progressivism by a thousand cuts.
John Niclols wrote "How to Push Obama"
Are you kidding yourself or are you just trying to bullshit us. Obama is a fraud and will bring no change whatsoever and business will be as usual in Washingon DC
with minor cosmetic modifications.
Look at his cabinet picks and his backpaddling and equivocating on his campaign promises. Not a single word about the slaughter of the Gazans.
Yeah, "change we believe in". Ha.
Obama will listen.
Obama cares.
Give him a chance.
However, the suggestions in the article, for things like single-payer or rejecting the bail-out, are not why I voted for Obama.
I will be very angry if he reverses positions.
But I see no indication that he will.
Holy crap! What kind of drugs are you doing, anyway? Or is your head so far up your ass that the light of day is just a memory?
Is there any way that a moratorium could be observed on these CD comments by people who personally (I mean with purple language)attack Joe Hope whenever he posts does one of his predictably pro-Obama posts? Can't we disagree without being disagreeable? So far as I can tell, Joe Hope doesn't start the name-calling but responders are certainly quickly to come back to the epithets. Time out?
Nice suggestion. Thanks.
als
It's OK. There was a LOT of understandable anger that needed venting there and if it had been censored by "moratorium" WE would not consciously know of its presence, which could have caused it to continue to fester; this would not help any of us. Agreed, indeed, it was not vented against the REAL causes, which is where WE must give support and light so that WE CAN HARNESS ALL KINDS OF ENERGIES and AIM them in constructive directions TOGETHER! HOPE energies as well as ANGER, both possibly predating us as far back as the stone-age, (in other words, HARD-WIRED INTO HOMO SAPIENS and evolutionarily-related species). It is a question of AIM, INTENT, in this case, COLLECTIVE.
Anger can be a high-energy mobilizer/enabler when it is REDIRECTED/CHANNELED THRU other kinds of 'happier' types of energies, channeled in CONSTRUCTIVE DIRECTIONS, which also causes far less or no damage to those who are angry. Anger is not a happy emotion; it always hurts the one who is angry. Stuffed anger can kill, literally and figuratively ("our" outgoing, twice-not-elected Exec branch is a good figurative example of the epitome of this kind of destructive consequences of STUFFED anger).
Anger is a secondary emotion. There is always something deeper that translates into anger. Two of the biggest primary emotions that tend to underlie anger seem to be FEAR/insecurity/anxiety and PAIN due to need and/or sickness and/or injury, often UNacknowledged, esp in those who have no control over the venting or stuffing of their anger. Stuffing is a form of denial which sets up a 'field' of dis-integrity in the stuffer that can make a stuffer sicko (sic) in many different ways. Instead of judging, seek deeper causes and how to fulfill the unmet needs they represent. When one speaks in anger, the anger is the MAIN message that most will hear; any other messages embedded in the anger get upstaged and drowned out.
The first step is to enlighten "name-calling" REACTORS to the fact that WE ALL need and want the same things: PEACE OF MIND, LOVE, HAPPINESS, FREEDOM TO BE OURSELVES, etc; (WE must all learn how to recognize each other AS ALLIES) ... the second step is to communicate to them that they can accomplish far more for their own well-being (and for COMMON CAUSES that will benefit their well-being), if they can avoid attacking AN ALLY in OUR strivings toward the same goals, in spite of differences of how each of us think is the best way to achieve our COMMON HEALTH AND BALANCE AND WELFARE; the solutions to a jigsaw puzzle can only be found if there are not too many missing pieces: each one of US (including ALL of the species of life and elements of our planet, EVERYTHING!) contains pieces of THE BIG PUZZLE confronting us, which is: how to empower ourselves to overcome the Interwoven Disaster Complex perpetuated by Sociopathic Corporate Personhood Cow Potty Pollutions!
(i love run-on sentences ... periods are like speed bumps ... lol)
I wish I could hold onto as much hope as Mr. Hope is holding onto; Mr. Hope sees something hopeful that those of us who cannot feel the same hope cannot see AND/OR Mr. Hope is missing a piece of vital info that would make his previous hopes seem hopeless. Between all of us, WE can disentangle the far-reaching webs of illusion and deception that WE are all caught in and free ourselves from the human flaws which create and perpetuate unbalanced hierarchical systems of dominance vs. slavery/exploitation, which have led us to the endangerment of the whole living system that all life depends on. LIFE IS AN ENDANGERED 'SPECIES'!
Wish I could see it otherwise.
Wow, thanks, Jerry D Rose.
I can take the heat though.
Honestly, I really just think it reflects poorly on the people making the insults.
I also understand that these are emotional subjects. Sometimes I let my emotions get the better of me as well.
However, some of the more antisemitic statements should stop. That's unacceptable. I'm tired of that.
als
"antisemitic statements"??? I don't see any antisemitic statements and my last name is Schwartz from my dad's side.
No, see...I'm a Jew too, and while I have called some on anti-semitism (none seen in the thread, though), it isn't up to you or anyone else to throw a blanket cease and desist order out. This is a tactic that has been used very effectively to squelch speech, with deleterious effects. And I'm tired of that!
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Joehope does not start the name calling but he like is asking for it
by his infuraiting stupid remarks. I have the deep suspicion that he
is just a TROLL whose only purpose is to aggrevate the posters and distract them
and waste their time and energy awawy from the real issues.
"but he like is asking for it"
For insults? No thank you.
How about working together? All of us, working together to make sure that Obama's presidency goes so smoothly that we are able to defeat the Republicans in 2012. Let's work together today,so that we don't have to worry about Sarah Palin and Jeb Bush tomorrow. We almost wound up with President McCain in 2009. Four years isn't far away. Realistically, Obama will need at least two terms to accomplish everything that's on his agenda. If we want long-lasting change, then we need to make sure to keep electing Democrat beyond Obam into 2016, 2020 2024 and so on.
"he is just a TROLL whose only purpose is to aggrevate the posters and distract them
and waste their time and energy awawy from the real issues."
At least tell me what it is I'm distracting you from? What are the real issues that I supposedly won't allow anyone to discuss?
We all have our tempers. No one is perfect. Not all of us can have Obama's sense of "cool". I have to admit there was that time I told all the Naderites to move down to Guyana. Perhaps I should apologize as well.
.The best way to avoid insult and derision is to post something of substance, try it sometimes...
Your sophomoric cheerleading grates intensely and the vacuous and empty nature of your comments simply takes up space.
One more thing, while you are a hit and run poster of little repute here, I am curious as to how you went from a sefl proclaimed christian who knew nothing whatever about Jewish religion, culture, or mores to one who now claims the mantle of Judaism?
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
".The best way to avoid insult and derision is to post something of substance, try it sometimes..."
In other words, agree with me or I'll insult you.
"Your sophomoric cheerleading grates intensely and the vacuous and empty nature of your comments simply takes up space."
I apologize for taking up space. There is so little room in these threads! What happens when we run out of space? We must all conserve our use of digital typeface!
"One more thing, while you are a hit and run poster of little repute here,"
Wow. Who are the posters of "repute"? Do you give out trophies? Prizes?
"I am curious as to how you went from a sefl proclaimed christian who knew nothing whatever about Jewish religion, culture, or mores to one who now claims the mantle of Judaism?"
I'm getting tired of explaining this one (I've explained it in several threads). But, to make a long story short, I do not practice the religion of Judaism. I'm a Jewish person (though I didn't find that out till later in life) who was raised Unitarian and later converted to the Christian faith. That I have questions about Jewish identity does not mean that I am without knowledge of Judaism. I have have many questions about both Judaism and Christianity that remain unanswered. Who are you to question my faith?
You can be happy that ardee has not thrown the f-bomb at you. Yet.
.Consider yourself annointed.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
.".The best way to avoid insult and derision is to post something of substance, try it sometimes..."
In other words, agree with me or I'll insult you.
.........................
...No Joe, and you are once again guilty of posting vacuous nonsense. There is a major difference between seeking agreement and finding something of substance in apost. You post empty and frothy crap most of the time. I doubt folks come here to read such as that.
I never saw your explanantion of your religious background, frankly, probably because I mostly scroll past your stuff. I read the one above because I thought its length might mean something, it didnt. Oh, and I wasnt questioning your faith, whatever the heck it may be, its your honesty and integrity that is at question here.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
als
Dear Cavedweller,
Lack of compassion is not by any means the best way to convince anyone of anything. I hear uncalled-for judgment and assumptions in your comment that can only injure rather than help make progress. I hope you are able to overcome the overwhelming anger that induces you to make such hurtful responses before it makes you sick (and maybe even kills you, long before the effed-up $Y$TEM has a chance to do it for you)
Joe:
My comments were way over the top. I apologize to you and to anyone else I offended.
Cavedweller
It may be just me, but there is something deeply disturbing about Americans having to "push" Obama to do the right thing. He knows what the right thing is. It is the basis on which he was elected, all those progressive principles that are described above.
Why the HELL should anybody have to "make" him do what he says he believes in? We aren't involved in his policy meetings, his programs set up to accomplish his goals. All too often, we don't find out about what his plans are until he's already done the thing or made the definitive public statement.
This isn't my idea of an effective president at all. As things stand right now, if what he does is up to Americans, we are never free of our anxiety that he may not do the right thing ALL ON HIS OWN, when America hasn't had any input into his decision.
I dunno. I don't get it. That attitude might work in a marriage where there is a personal equal partnership, but none of us has personal contact with Obama. And he can't listen to everyone. The motive force for his actions needs to come from his own integrity.
HOW to accomplish what he wants to achieve is a bit different -- and that's where conferring with others might be of great benefit to him, as apparently he's doing with Krugman, an economy expert.
I am so freaking TIRED of caring, of being alarmed at his appointments, his vote on FISA, his decision to not to prosecute the Bush administration's war crimes, to not bring America back to its constitutional basis. Any effort I expend feels like an ant trying to push the Wall of China over.
As I say, it may be just me.
It isn't just you, anney - we're all tired.
Consider this, however: It is the nature of a democracy for all sides to exert pressure on the leaders for their own interests. Right now, the corporate fundamentalist right side is ahead. While Obama is a damn sight better than Bush or McCain, he simply can't be all things to all people, nor can he be too far to either side - he simply would not have been elected had he been.
Democracy is messy and it is hard. Being tired is not exclusive to anyone and it is simply not an excuse for us not doing our job as citizens. Progressives have had the snot kicked out of us for a long time, but it's no reason to give up. I believe that we should probably change our tactics, but expecting Obama, or any president, to hew to one side exclusive of others is not realistic. He will be the president of ALL Americans. As with everything else however, the squeaky wheel will get the grease.
Let's start squeaking!
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
"I believe that we should probably change our tactics, but expecting Obama, or any president, to hew to one side exclusive of others is not realistic. He will be the president of ALL Americans."
Great comment!
He will be the president of ALL Americans.
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This mantra is getting pretty stale, too. If a president intends to ignore his own promises and his supporters' call for integrity and a return to Constitutional government, how is he being "president of ALL Americans"? I have not seen a single person asking Obama to follow GW Bush's "conservative" policies except among rightwing nutcases. Why would Obama maintain those policies?
Truly, if a person elected to be president of the US cannot uphold his declared principles of integrity and honor in straightening out the criminal actions of the Bush administration but covers his deceitful actions with "I'm just being the president of ALL Americans", what's the point of electing that person?
You don't help thieves to continue their thievery to stop that thievery against Americans while saying you're being the president of all Americans. You don't enable wars to stop illegal warmongering while saying you're being the president of all Americans. You don't refuse to prosecute war crimes that have ruined America in the eyes in most of the world and in our own eyes while saying you're being the president of all Americans. You don't refuse to restore America to its constitutional basis while saying you're being the president of all Americans.
I don't know WHICH Americans Obama wants to be president "of", but it sure doesn't look like it's me or millions of others who voted for him on the basis of his promises and stated values. It looks like he instead plans to be the president of corporate and military interests to me.
He simply must represent the majority of citizens. He cannot represent a small minority to the exclusion of others.
The last eight years is a prime example of that.
Then why doesn't he represent the majority of citizens who voted for him? Why do you want to shrink the numbers to "a small minority"? It appears to me that HE's the one who plans to represent a "small minority" to the exclusion of others.
Sorry, but you aren't making sense.