Subscribe to Common Dreams News Updates
Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
To Help Palestine, Be Pro-Israel Too
Three viewpoints on the Gaza war fill the U.S. mass media: pro-Israel, anti-Israel, and neutral or even-handed. All three are harmful to the suffering people of Gaza. The one view that can help them is the one that barely gets a hearing. It's pro-Palestine, pro-peace, AND pro-Israel.
It's easy enough to see why support for Israeli policy hurts the Gazans. U.S. political leaders are heavily influenced by the view that's usually called "pro-Israel," equating support for Israel with support for its government's war policies. Even if our leaders might want to take a different approach (and it's doubtful how many really would), they fear the political repercussions. So they don't put U.S. weight behind any effort toward a just peace.
As long as that one-sided view prevails at the highest levels, the U.S. cannot be the kind of neutral broker that most Americans want us to be. According to columnist Glenn Greenwald, a recent poll shows 71% of the public here wanting the U.S. to support neither side. But our politicians consistently tilt toward Israel, pushed on by the overly loud voices that see Israel always in the right and Hamas in the wrong.
Yet a neutral, even-handed approach in the U.S. news media is dangerous for the people of Gaza too. It treats Israel's massive high-tech firepower, which has killed over 500, as somehow equivalent to Hamas' aimless, largely ineffectual rockets that have killed five. That gives Americans the impression there's a fair fight going on between two equally violent and equally suffering sides. Most people conclude that if neither side is the good guy, it's none of our business and we should just ignore it. At least they themselves ignore the conflict. That gives the "pro-Israel" lobby and the U.S. government a freer hand to follow a one-sided course.
Even for the minority of our people who want to be politically aware and involved in the Middle East, the even-handed view makes a realistic approach difficult, because it ignores or masks so many crucial facts beyond the disproportionate violence.
Israel, not Hamas, broke the recent truce, both by attacking Hamas on November 4 and by imposing an economic strangle-hold on Gaza. Israel's blockade left the people of Gaza desperately lacking in food, fuel, electricity, medical supplies, and other necessities for weeks before the current attack began. Israel has consistently ignored Hamas truce offers. Instead, helped by the U.S., it has tried to destroy the Hamas government, which Palestinians democratically chose to rule them. Israel, helped by the U.S., has also consistently inflamed tensions between Hamas and Fatah and blocked their efforts at creating a unified regime.
Anyone who does not know, or ignores, those crucial facts can hardly hope to frame a just resolution to the conflict. Yet all of that background simply disappears from the supposedly even-handed approach in our news media.
That might seem to leave only one fruitful approach: Stand up for the Palestinians, condemn Israel as the aggressor, and demand that it stop its attack immediately. It's understandable that Americans of good moral conscience might take such an approach. But from a practical point of view, it will not do the Palestinians of Gaza any good. It might even harm them more.
Political action that is merely "pro-Palestinian" allows the mass media to portray the engaged public divided into two neat camps-pro-Israel and anti-Israel-as if those were the only two options. Of course the mass media like simplistic pictures of two protest groups, diametrically opposed, on opposite sides of the street. It boosts their ratings. But it also lets supporters of Israeli policy feel even more justified, saying that "everyone who's not for us is against us."
It also encourages the average American to assume that there is no way out of this mess except to choose sides. In that case, since most know only what the political leaders and mass media tell them, they will choose the Israeli side.
Most importantly, action that is merely "pro-Palestinian" makes it harder to achieve the only political goal that really counts here in the U.S.: getting our government to take a different direction. There are some members of Congress and some mid-level staffers in the Obama administration who are not locked into a knee-jerk pro-Israel position. They are open to the possibility of using U.S. influence to change Israeli policy. The only way to set that change in motion is to encourage these "movable" figures in the government to speak out for a new direction.
But that would be very risky for their own careers. If they appear to represent a stridently anti-Israel view, they won't get anywhere -- except perhaps ushered out of the government entirely. So they need political cover. They have to be able to urge a new U.S. policy as a pro-Israel policy. Then they have at least a chance of making some headway against the existing pro-Israeli tilt.
Fortunately for them, and for us, a genuinely pro-Israel policy -- one that cares about the peace and security of the Israeli people -- will and must oppose the militaristic policies of the current Israeli leadership. The only way for Israel to achieve peace is to recognize the legitimate right of the Palestinian people to their own fully independent and completely viable state in all of the West Bank and Gaza -- with no Israeli settlements or security roads or military personnel left in Palestine; with the Palestinians left alone to have whatever government they democratically choose, even a government devoted to Islamic principles; with no surreptitious Israeli policies undermining the political and economic success of the Palestinian state; with the Israeli people living in peace and safety, within the borders of June 4, 1967 (with minor border rectifications mutually agreed upon, if necessary); with the Palestinian people compensated, both monetarily and by formal Israeli apology, for the injustice and suffering they have endured for sixty years.
This is the truly pro-Israel policy. It's the only one that can break down the wall -- both literal and psychological -- that Israeli Jews have created to separate themselves from their neighbors. It's the only one that can give Israel peace and security and release the energies of its people to realize the Zionist dream, to fulfill the highest aspirations of the Jewish people. It calls for the Jewish people to give up nothing that is truly their right and due.
It's also pro-Palestinian and pro-peace. It opens the way to productive cooperation between Jews and Palestinians, living side in two secure states, not merely in grudging toleration but in genuine friendship and mutuality.
If enough of the "movable" people in congress and the Obama administration start making that argument, both in public and in private, U.S. policy will begin to change -- very slowly, to be sure, but it will change. And that will produce fundamental change in the Middle East. Regardless of what Israeli leaders say to win votes at home, in fact they need U.S. support to continue their policies of occupation and force.
So even if your only goal is to relieve the suffering of the Palestinians, the best strategy right now is to avoid the appearance of being a one-sided "pro-Palestinian" advocate. The best strategy is to declare that you are pro-Palestine, pro-Israel, and pro-peace. Demand an end to the Israeli occupation and a guarantee of full independence for Palestine, but at the same time insist over and over that you support this program because you want the best for everyone in the region, Israelis as well as Palestinians.
This is the program being advocated by Brit Tzedek v'Shalom, J Street, and other Jewish peace organizations in the U.S., as well as by Gush Shalom and other Jewish movements in Israel, which can still bring thousands into the streets to demonstrate for peace and justice. The best way to help the Palestinian people now is to forge a powerful alliance between these groups and the many groups advocating Palestinian rights, recognizing that ultimately we all want the same thing.
- Posted in
130 Comments so far
Show AllVery confusing article. Here's a simple idea. Stop electing bad pols who keep sucking up to AIPAC. Pay attention to local and state level elections and elect better pols. In time, we can improve Washington and our international status.
Sorry, but I will never be pro "Israel". There is no such thing as being jewish, or catholic, or muslim, etc. etc. etc. I am only pro-Palestine, with an awareness of a dislike for any and all state religions. It's the right thing to do, considering the 60 year despicable history of terrorism from "Israel".
I will be pro-Israel the day Israel recognizes other peoples right to exist.
Yohocoma, I couldn't agree more.
Israel is a viable state for exactly as long as the US is willing to feed it weapons, food, oil and provide a military umbrella for Israeli crimes.
The day that lifeline is cut Israel will be ground down to grit but their justifiably angry neighbors. The Israeli nukes will be worthless in the face of ant-like micro attacks from all sides.
That is why Israel is so angered by the Gaza rockets is that they demonstrate that the future of an Israeli state is limited and those limits are visible. Israel already resembles a country of old Zionists and young Jewish fanatics. Anybody in their twenties who can get out is doing so.
It's a failed state with good lighting and plumbing but failed nonetheless.
Fighting the forces of rather dim lighting wherever they may be found!!
Very naive article.
Isreal's motivations have nothing to do with peace and security for Israelis, any more that Bush's wars had anything to do with my security. They know very well that if they just retreated entirely behind the green line and dismantled or transfered the settlements, there would be peace. but Zionism is a project of western racist, imperialist expansionism and they want everything between the Med. and the Jordan - and they want it all free of brown Arabs.
If Prof. Chernus would talk to actual dissident Israelis, he would know this.
---USAn---
"They know very well that if they just retreated entirely behind the green line and dismantled or transfered the settlements, there would be peace."
Can I have some of what you're smoking?
You obviously couldn't handle it.
The "Zionist dream" has led the region to this nightmare.
How about: to help Israel be pro-Palestine too? Think. What will be the result be of this carnage by Israel on the next generation Palestinians that are young today? Will they grow up instilled with a warm and fuzzy for Israel after relatives have been slaughtered? I don't think so. What will this achieve? Nothing but more of the same. It's the 21st century and the only thing that has changed in the way humans resolve conflicts is the development of more and more sophisticated methods of killing. What we need is more sophisticated methods of conflict resolution. Otherwise, Homo sapiens is destined to disappear from this planet. As for Obama, it looks like the people and their revulsion are forcing him to at least say something about it. Obama, change we can count on. Yeah, like $0.02 in change. Until Jan 20, Obama is in "listening mode". Meanwhile........
.I believe I understand where Mr. Chernus is coming from with this article. But I must say that Israel has an awful lot of support while the Palestinian people have little to none. Only by taking sides against the enormous and illegal responses of the state of Israel to what the author himself describes as "Israel's massive high-tech firepower, which has killed over 500, as somehow equivalent to Hamas' aimless, largely ineffectual rockets that have killed five" can justice be best served.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Sorry Ira. Israel doesn't deserve peace and security. And given their positive genius for making enemies, it isn't likely they will ever have it.
Poor Ira Chernus. He's a good man, to judge from most of his writings. Perhaps being targeted by extreme-rightwing Zionist kooks has got him a little wobbly. (This has happened, by the way. Just check out some of those hit-lists compiled by the Zionist hatemongers. Ira's one of their favorite Jewish targets.) What seems most disappointing about Chernus's argument here is that he doesn't seem to realize that the Zionist ideology itself is the problem. Realistically speaking, Israel isn't going to go away. It's a fact of history and a fact of life. And it is armed beyond all imagination. The most we can hope for is that the Israelis will be pressured and shamed into stopping their incessant onslaughts and eventually abandon their racist/supremacist/militarist ideology and reform their sick, exclusive society into an open, secular one for all of its citizens of all religions. But for this to happen, the United States first and foremost, and the influential Jews of the United States, themselves have to undergo some sort of ideological rehabilitation. Which will not be easy and certainly won't happen under the Obama administration as presently constituted. But, who knows, a worldwide depression, which may be just around the corner, could make things change quickly. When one thinks of the progressive thought of so many members of the Jewish intellectual community past and present, such a transformation doesn't seem entirely impossible. It's a matter above all of affecting people's minds, and for this to happen, the stranglehold of the mainstream media on the flow of information has to stop. It's possible that in a worldwide depression the sponsors of the pablum fed to the public on TV and in the press would have no more money to affect the content of the news and discussions in those forums. Maybe such forums would have to go public. And local. In desperate times, things can snowball very fast. Thus far, things have gone bad, economically speaking, but only so bad that the middle classes can no longer afford the things they didn't need in the first place. Once people start lacking the basic necessities, look out. If, in such conditions, the society maintains a modicum of openness, then positive change could occur. But only if--and this is a very big if--the protofascist state that is already in place is knowingly and responsibly dismantled. We're not totally powerless yet.
Thank you, clovis. You articulated some of my thinking exactly.
I just wish I could be as optimistic as you.
I heard some ass on DNC Radio (aka Air Amerika) spouting the Zionist lie about how this is all the fault of Hamas and then he told his audience to ignore or laugh at "those naive anti-Israeli, pro-Palestinian crazies." He then posed that oft-used but fatally-flawed argument: How would you feel if a group of Islamic fanatics were positioned on the U.S. border and were bombarding the U.S. with missiles, killing random Americans, and calling for the destruction of the U.S.?
Of course, the first thing to point out is that Israel is NOT being "bombarded with missiles" no matter how many times you hear that said by NBC, ABC, Fox, CBS, and NPR. Secondly, wouldn't the REAL comparison be Native Americans waging war in the early 19th c. against an invading army that consistently broke the treaties they had signed; massacring innocent men, women, and children; and forcing the dislocation of entire villages, which are then plowed into the earth and replaced with European settlements? After all, we have to keep in mind that the land and homes of Palestinians were taken a mere 60 years ago, when the victors of WWII created the state of Israel out of, not thin air, but the land of Palestine, where people had been living for several thousands of years. After all, neither the U.S., Great Britain, nor France wanted a large, sudden influx of homeless, destitute Jews!
Can't you just imagine the scenario? The horror at the very possibility? "Yikes! I mean, Nazis - no problem, especially if they're scientists. But Jews!? No way! Hey! I know! No one gives a shit about the Arabs living in Palestine! We can ship the Jews over there! After all, didn't the Jews used to live there at one time anyway?"
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
It is as impossible for me to be pro-Israel, as it is for me to support U.S. imperialism. In fact, I consider Israel to be an outpost of U.S. imperialism in the Middle East.
bligh4
I'm afraid Mr. Chernus is naive. A full Palestinian state would not solve the problem. Within a week, the rockets would fly, the suicide bombers would explode, the Israelis would retaliate, and the whole thing would start over again.
Typical Israeli militant talk. Since when did the Palestinians ask for a full state? Quit spouting lies.
.I would think that this position is in need of further study by you. It implies that Palestinians are, somehow, different from other folks, a disturbing viewpoint at best.
The creation of a national identity, with of course assistance in becoming a self sufficient nation, one with full employment and a decent chance at life for all its residents would negate the influence of extremists such as the militant wing of Hamas over the population. People that have mortgages, jobs and children in school are far less susceptible to violent solutions.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Bad article.
The creation of Israel sounds romantic but was a failure-is a failure. Its like a pig heart transplant--you may claim you want to save a life but you have caused misery and victimized others to get it. And you keep doing more research in an effort to sustain the body-thus more victims and the body suffers for it too. Sometimes it better to let nature take its course.
The only hope for Israel is to dismantle the laws that want to preserve it as a Jewish state.
Stop the settlements, stop threatening and attacking neighbors.
A one state solution where one calls it Israel and the other Palestine is the only possible hope for a solution.
Then some sort of agreement about right of return and land issues.
But the onus is mostly on Israel.
If you look at it fairly, the Palestinian arab response is mostly retaliation to what was started by Zionist settlers.
One state, Palestinian jews and arabs, not an artificial Jewish state made by stealing land.
Giving up the zionist dream is the problem. Even Chomsky believes in it.
Anyway
Israel showed its true intentions by its attacks on Lebanon.
It doesnt want peace with its neighbours.
It sees itself as a European style colony among barbarians.
It has little regard for arab history, culture, or non jews.
Sadly, this has been shown time and time again.
They even poisoned the Lebanese coast in a way that would make Saddam proud.
A THIRD WAY:
By Dr. Khaled Diab, Founder Interfaith Olive Trees Foundation for Peace
[whose memories inspired my first novel, "KEEP HOPE ALIVE"]
Massive air strikes, and possible invasions from land and sea of the Gaza strip will not bring peace between Israel and the Palestinians; it will not subdue the resistance to occupation. This war can result in strengthening Hamas and deepen the conflict between the Palestinian factions. It can also result in changing the government in Israel to a more hardened policy positions. If it continues, it can result in the annihilation of all or most of the 1.5 million inhabitants of Gaza and spread well beyond Gaza.
We have seen in the past sixty years on and off wars; these wars will continue as long as there is mistrust and fear of annihilation by any side of the conflict. Wars will rise when there is massive lack of employment, when there is excessive hunger of the masses, when hate has no limit on both sides and there is a conception of hopelessness and continued injustice. If we want to stop this war and future wars we must think of new and different approaches; we must make a big changes in the past approaches.
What will bring peace is a combined and comprehensive approach that is based on three elements that must be acted upon simultaneously. These elements are genuine Political solutions with justice according to the human rights as defined and recognized by the international community and all religions Reconciliation so that the conflicting parties start to understand and empathize with each other, and the creation of real decent work Opportunities. This system of actions is a PRO system for peace: P stands for Political solution with justice, R stands for Reconciliation, and O stands for Opportunities Acting only on one or two of these three element will not be enough and will not succeed. The three parts must be acted upon.
To change the attitudes of hate takes massive education of the benefits of Peace as compared to war. People must be convinced that peace with justice will bring prosperity to all. The Palestinians who have been under occupation for over forty years need a sustained development plan similar to Marshal Plan that saved Europe. More destruction and subjugation, and more corruption will destroy the occupied and the occupier. We need to find ways to keep our hope alive and look for a better future for our planet and all the humanity.
Dr. Khaled M. Diab
http://www.olivetreesfoundation.org/
Eileen Fleming, Author, Founder WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu"
Very hard at this point to be pro-Israel in any way. Maybe some years ago, but after Lebanon in 2006 and now Gaza--the Israelis can rot in hell. They just bombed a UN school and slaughtered 42 civilians. There were no Hamas members in the school. A United Nations official in Gaza said the school was clearly marked with a UN flag and its location had been reported to Israeli authorities. The monsters who are running the Israeli government and the cowards in the Israeli military are war criminals. Protests are forming all around the world, and in many countries people are attacking Jews because they are so outraged at the wanton destruction of human life by the Israelis. Only the morally bankrupt Bush administration is playing cheerleader to this massacre. Israel is putting the lives of Jews around the world in danger--and they should be the ones demanding that Israel stop the carnage.
Many good points, Donna!
The Israelis are targeting U.N. facilities for the same reason they are saying "fuck you" to their own Supreme Court, which has ordered them to open the borders to members of the foreign press: they do not want any witnesses to their crimes. In addition, this way they can control the message.
For example, look at their recount of the ramming of the relief ship Dignity. Fortunately, their intelligence apparatus failed, neglecting to discover beforehand that there were three journalists aboard, including Sami El-Haj of Al Jazeera (the same Sami El-Haj who was detained in Guantanamo for six years for the crime of being born in the wrong country (Sudan), reporting for the wrong news organization (Al Jazeera), being the wrong color (non-Caucasian), believing in the wrong make-believe higher power (Allah), and for reporting the wrong storyline (the truth)).
Also aboard were CNN's Karl Penhaul and Green Party presidential candidate and former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. As Cynthia reported: "Karl reported the truth even when his own station was repeating Israeli disinformation. The fact that we were traveling with these alert journalists added to the flat-footedness and obvious crudeness of the Israeli response. Sadly, Israel has changed its story too many times to count, and that's because they are not telling the truth.
"We lived to tell the story. Karl's incredible reporting, just a portion of our story, can be seen on CNN at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.aid.boat/index.html
"where there's also video and a photo of our damaged boat. A little more of the story and film of the extensive damage can be seen at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.aid.boat/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
"This video and the photos of Karl's report is particularly interesting given that Israel claims that our boat was only scratched and that, in actuality, our captain, while trying to outmaneuver them, damaged their warship.
"I'm told that CNN only played my full statement once--and that's the time that it aired live. Of course, they cut the reference to the U.S.S. Liberty. What are they afraid of?
"Last night I was on PressTV.com, along with others who were on the Dignity, and we debated a representative from WINEP, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. I reminded the audience that the Palestinians don't have nuclear weapons, depleted uranium munitions, white phosphorous, or F-16s, but the Israelis do. The facts, however, tend to get garbled after being processed by the 'Grand Wurlitzer' organ of state-sponsored disinformation utilizing the world's press.
"With the truth clearly on our side, Israel has been reduced to releasing the ridiculous bombast below, given to me by a reporter who came to our hotel in Beirut for a visit. With their multiple, conflicting stories, it is clear that the Israelis did not expect us to live to tell the truth.
"And one final note: President-elect Obama roared like a mighty lion onto the political scene, but now he is as silent as a lamb in the face of the death and destruction that is happening in Gaza. As we approach the birthday celebration of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. let us remember what Dr. King said: 'In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.'"
A press release from the Consulate General of Israel to the Southeast's Office of Media Affairs (dated 30 December 2008):
"Israel continues to take its humanitarian relief efforts in Gaza seriously. Border crossings into Gaza remain open, and every effort is being made to deliver aid to the Palestinian people. Israel is working closely with UNSCO, UNRWA, the Red Cross, and WHO to ensure the entry of the required aid, especially food and medical equipment."
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
First and foremost you call this a war when in actuality it is genocide. Then you talk about the even-handed approach of the mainstream media but repeat the standard threats of political ramifications should any politician oppose Israeli policies. Every time something happens over there people like yourself (well meaning and not) begin writing about how complicated the solutions, justifications for Israeli aggression, and the need for support (in various forms) of the Israeli government. Meanwhile, over 600 people have been killed; with the majority of them being civilians and the houses keep getting bulldozed, the genocide continues day in and day out and a group of people that represent less than 1% of the US population stand ready to shout down the first voice that dares to speak out. What we need is not policy and a simple rule, NO MORE PERIOD!! Israel survives not because of there own abilities but because we support them completely. If any other country in the world behaved as Israel continues we would be inflicting embargoes, threatening military action and calling for UN sanctions yet we supply them with the weapons, resources and financial funding to continue this whole sale slaughter. Within the US "Pro-Israeli" groups are funded by war mongers looking to keep the Middle East unstable, extremist Christians who believe that the "Zionist" will bring about the end of the world and the less then 1% that support Israel simply because of there religious affiliation. Many, many Jews also oppose the actions of the Israeli government but more often then not say nothing for the same fear of reprisals that keep our politicians and media quiet as well.
The only solution to the Israeli occupation of Gaza is for our US policy clearly and unequivocally state that aggression will not be tolerated and all Israeli forces must leave Gaza immediately. Enough with the continually spewed rhetoric about complications and difficulties.
bligh4
I keep hearing charges of "genocide" bandied about, but have not seen any evidence that Israel wants to exterminate the people of Gaza or the West bank.
Frankly, if Israel IS trying to commit genocide- they suck at it. The residents of Gaza are certainly not living like anyone would want to live, but they have a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality than their neighbor Egypt. They also have one of the highest rate of natural increase in the world, their population growing from 300,000 to 1.8 million in little over a generation.
The overuse of the word genocide cheapens the acts of actual genocides, like that committed against the Armenians, the Holocaust, Pol Pot's regime, and the slaughter of the Tutsis of Rwanda.
Israel should pull out totally in Gaza. Then let Egypt take over the administration and provision of the area.
Perhaps you should consult the internationally accepted definition of genocide:
http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm
One would have to be seriously divorced from reality to argue that Israel's conduct over the last half century does not satisfy this definition.
bligh4
Kurt, thanks for the definition. It strikes me that what Hamas is doing to the Israelis would qualify as genocide as defined by your post. They are certainly inciting it, and are physically attacking a group.
Everyone with half a brain knows what genocide really means, no matter the "official" definition. The ones that I listed qualify, Gaza does not.
And by that same definition so are the Israeli zionists, not to be confused with the honest Jews who are sick and tired of the warmongers running the country. I can see why Israel has no middle class now.
Resisting a longstanding, illegal, and brutally oppressive occupation force which is there only to steal land and displace/murder its people, does not qualify as genocide.
Secondly, these rockets are suspiciously ineffective. I do not find it believable that real Hamas members wouldn't discontinue in the interests of a ceasefire given the horror so many civilians are being forced to endure. I think the rockets will continue because Israel needs them to, and will see to it that they do -- they are the required official pretext for continued slaughter. Anyone having even a casual familiarity with Israel's history knows this would be perfectly consistent with the long established modus operandi for False Flag Nation.
"By way of deception thou shalt do war."
I saw bligh4's earlier posts. He once joked about his daughter having a Muslim friend although he admitted his actual intolerance of that Muslim friend. If bligh4 were even paying attention, he would have found out that even the Israeli militants admitted that their intention was not to kill Hamas but to kill the Palestinians they "think" are terrorists. By the way, there was an article on this site about Egypt being just as guilty as Israel. I noticed that the zionist trolls including bligh4 never bothered to show up. My guess is these zionist trolls know everything about the zionist leaders' strange bedfellow relationship with the neighboring Arab dictators that they don't want us to know about. Of course, none of this would be possible without the US supplying all these nations billions of dollars in taxpayer money. bligh4 is supposedly a rancher but loves it when billions of dollars in US taxpayer money are wasted yearly in doling out massive amounts of WMDs to rogue nations around the world including Israel.
bligh4
Hi JWVerez, "admitted his actual intolerance of that Muslim friend" . I guess you feel that if you have a point to make LYING is ok. I never said that. I never implied that. Prove it.
JWVerez is an Islamist troll. There, I can do it too.
Have a nice day.
"I never said that. I never implied that. Prove it."
If you're another idiot like joehope who can't go back and learn to read his own posts that he posted, too bad. Your old posts on this site are still out there and yes so too are your retarded statements about your daughter calling them stupid which I seriously doubt she'd be dumb enough to do. After all, she ain't your puppet but if she is, then she's no less a self-righteous deluded brown shirt like you.
"I guess you feel that if you have a point to make LYING is ok."
Speak for yourself. You're the one doing all the lying while calling truth tellers liars. You're no better than the Pakistini militants asking India proof that the terrorists are from Pakistan.
"JWVerez is an Islamist troll."
Oh really ??? But if I were, it's a hell of a lot better than a NAZI Zionist troll such as yourself waiting for his welfare checks from gubbmint out on his ranch in the south.
bligh4
JW
You made the charges and now suddenly have developed the intelligence to demur on proving them- since they don't exist.
No welfare checks here. You would probably be frightened of a cow, if you saw one up close.
You are clearly a close minded idiot, who is not worth my time. Probably a graduate student living on Mom and Dad's dime.
Late for my Nazi zionist meeting, have to go.
And you're nothing but a rightwing deluded bastard living off government welfare checks and you know it. Thanks for admitting that you're nothing more than a pathetic brown shirt Zionist Nazi.
I would care about preserving Israel and their security if they were a decent law abiding country, as most are. Unfortunately, they are an international terrorist organization fully sponsored by another country that traffics in terror, the U.S.
Until the criminally insane Neocons/Zio-zealots who run the U.S./Israeli alliance from the shadows are somehow upended this blood lust carnival of death in the Middle East will not end.
How anyone could refer to Israel's wanton slaughter of hundreds of defenseless civilians entrapped in the largest open air prison on the planet as a "war" is quite beyond me. I wonder how Mr. Chernus would feel about the Holocaust being referred to as the "German/Jewish conflict" or the "war between the Jews and the Germans."
Call it what it is, Mr. Chernus: It's the GENOCIDE of an utterly defenseless and trapped people who have been suffering at the hands of Israeli brutality for over half a century.
The nationalist hatred and bias displayed on this comment board is despicable. Granted, the article displays naivety, but not because it's calling for a Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestine message. The only "correct" position to take in relation to this ongoing conflict is an *anti-nationalist* position. So far, I'm not seeing that based on the majority of, if not all, the comments that have been posted so far. I would go so far as to say that a lot of the comments are anti-semitic.
"Zionism is the root of the problem, not a moral right to be honored."
This is the what I mean by "nationalist hatred and bias". Both Zionism AND Arab nationalism (Islamism) are the root of the problem when it comes to the Israel/Palestinian war. Of course yohocoma and others fail to see this, they let their bold stupidity get in the way. No doubt, the Palestinians are the victims of an ongoing ethno-cultural/racist apartheid and ethnic cleansing (and arguably, genocide), but as long as they and the Israelis give in to nationalist hatred and ethnic/racist hatred for each other, then they are both to blame.
All I have to say is:
Down with the Israeli government and down with Hamas!!
Nationalism is death!!
Long live the spirit of Greece!! Anarchy for all!!!
There we go again with the anti-semitism charge! Is that the only defense Israel and Israel supporters have left?
If anti-semitism had never existed, Israel and Israel supporters would have to invent it.
Uhh, did you even read his post?
He's calling for the downfall of the Israeli government.
Finally, a little support. Thank you, very much!
:)
1. Yes, I read his post.
2. He does use the charge of anti-semitism.
3. I am obviously not impressed with his totally unrealistic call for anti-nationalism, although I am personally rather anemic in matters of patriotism and nationalism.
4. I do grant, however, that he calls for the abolition of Israel as a nationalist entity ("down with the Israeli government") and that, as such, he cannot be said to be a defender of Israel.
5. I seized upon his remark about anti-semitism as an opportunity to make a more general point about the all too easily thrown about charge of anti-semitism, which is used to be render Israel immune to any sort of criticism.
He lives in a pipe dream. A typical "anarchist". With these types, "government" is always the problem, be it one from the right or the left.
the only thing that can help or redeem what has happened is when jews are willing to die to bring an end to the monstrous idol that is the state that calls itself israel, by forming another lincoln brigade, this time to aid the palestinians rather than republican spain.
Come on let's inject some humour, let's see there was an Israeli, a Jew and zionist sitting in a pub when ...
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
,
This Israeli War on the Palestinians is GENOCIDE.
U.S. Taxpayers Dollars are paying for this GENOCIDE.
Where ever Hitler is today....he is smiling.........
,
Please, it's bad enough without going over the top with accusations of genocide. Israel is not committing genocide. They are not trying to wipe out the entire Arab people.
What they are committing is properly called ethnic cleansing. Of course, most of the time, they are doing it slowly and quietly - creating "facts on the ground" by quietly building Jew-only posh neighborhoods and Jew-only highways on Palestinian land and making thing intolerable for Palestinians - so as to avoid too much international criticism.
In the Israeli Dissident community or USAn Jews like Norman Finkelstein - such things completely uncontroversial*.
Respected right-wing Israeli historian Benny Morris defends Israel by explaining that Israel is doing nothing more than what US did to clear it's land of natives. I'm not kidding.
*a sample:
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/20151
---USAn---
PJD is not a zionist. Read his post carefully. Ethnic cleansing is just a slower form of genocide.
In response to "bligh4"'s comment:
Again, a perfect display of ignorance and a lack of analysis when it comes to the ongoing conflict/genocide that is taking place in Gaza and the West Bank (and yes, it is a genocide if you use the legal meaning that is accepted by nearly every nation-state on Earth. Although I'm not saying that gives it special legitimacy). The Egyptian regime is just as determined to oppress the Palestinian people. They have, on several occasions, had their troops open fire on Palestinians that were trying to cross the southern border, through Rafah crossing (I am referring to the recent break in the crossing that was caused by set explosives). You propose to replace two regimes (the Israeli state and Hamas) with another? How foolish can you be?
bligh4
Eyedea
How foolish can you be? The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. Let's keep having Israel and Hamas at each other's throats. Good Idea.
Your ignorance (and hiding behind the word genocide) is telling.
Have a nice day.
Huh? You've failed to read my other comments. Please read them to understand my position on Hamas and Israel.
I'm not following the logic here. Should people also, during WWII, have been pro-Nazi Germany as they decried that nation's crimes against humanity? In our own nation, should abolitionists also have been pro-slavery in order to stop slavery? I just don't get this mode of thought. When you have a situation of oppression and you want to change it, you put the pressure on the actor in the situation that holds the power -- especially in an instance such as this where the other side, the Palestinians, have little to no political power in the world at large.