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TechnoratiTo Help Palestine, Be Pro-Israel Too
Three viewpoints on the Gaza war fill the U.S. mass media: pro-Israel, anti-Israel, and neutral or even-handed. All three are harmful to the suffering people of Gaza. The one view that can help them is the one that barely gets a hearing. It's pro-Palestine, pro-peace, AND pro-Israel.
It's easy enough to see why support for Israeli policy hurts the Gazans. U.S. political leaders are heavily influenced by the view that's usually called "pro-Israel," equating support for Israel with support for its government's war policies. Even if our leaders might want to take a different approach (and it's doubtful how many really would), they fear the political repercussions. So they don't put U.S. weight behind any effort toward a just peace.
As long as that one-sided view prevails at the highest levels, the U.S. cannot be the kind of neutral broker that most Americans want us to be. According to columnist Glenn Greenwald, a recent poll shows 71% of the public here wanting the U.S. to support neither side. But our politicians consistently tilt toward Israel, pushed on by the overly loud voices that see Israel always in the right and Hamas in the wrong.
Yet a neutral, even-handed approach in the U.S. news media is dangerous for the people of Gaza too. It treats Israel's massive high-tech firepower, which has killed over 500, as somehow equivalent to Hamas' aimless, largely ineffectual rockets that have killed five. That gives Americans the impression there's a fair fight going on between two equally violent and equally suffering sides. Most people conclude that if neither side is the good guy, it's none of our business and we should just ignore it. At least they themselves ignore the conflict. That gives the "pro-Israel" lobby and the U.S. government a freer hand to follow a one-sided course.
Even for the minority of our people who want to be politically aware and involved in the Middle East, the even-handed view makes a realistic approach difficult, because it ignores or masks so many crucial facts beyond the disproportionate violence.
Israel, not Hamas, broke the recent truce, both by attacking Hamas on November 4 and by imposing an economic strangle-hold on Gaza. Israel's blockade left the people of Gaza desperately lacking in food, fuel, electricity, medical supplies, and other necessities for weeks before the current attack began. Israel has consistently ignored Hamas truce offers. Instead, helped by the U.S., it has tried to destroy the Hamas government, which Palestinians democratically chose to rule them. Israel, helped by the U.S., has also consistently inflamed tensions between Hamas and Fatah and blocked their efforts at creating a unified regime.
Anyone who does not know, or ignores, those crucial facts can hardly hope to frame a just resolution to the conflict. Yet all of that background simply disappears from the supposedly even-handed approach in our news media.
That might seem to leave only one fruitful approach: Stand up for the Palestinians, condemn Israel as the aggressor, and demand that it stop its attack immediately. It's understandable that Americans of good moral conscience might take such an approach. But from a practical point of view, it will not do the Palestinians of Gaza any good. It might even harm them more.
Political action that is merely "pro-Palestinian" allows the mass media to portray the engaged public divided into two neat camps-pro-Israel and anti-Israel-as if those were the only two options. Of course the mass media like simplistic pictures of two protest groups, diametrically opposed, on opposite sides of the street. It boosts their ratings. But it also lets supporters of Israeli policy feel even more justified, saying that "everyone who's not for us is against us."
It also encourages the average American to assume that there is no way out of this mess except to choose sides. In that case, since most know only what the political leaders and mass media tell them, they will choose the Israeli side.
Most importantly, action that is merely "pro-Palestinian" makes it harder to achieve the only political goal that really counts here in the U.S.: getting our government to take a different direction. There are some members of Congress and some mid-level staffers in the Obama administration who are not locked into a knee-jerk pro-Israel position. They are open to the possibility of using U.S. influence to change Israeli policy. The only way to set that change in motion is to encourage these "movable" figures in the government to speak out for a new direction.
But that would be very risky for their own careers. If they appear to represent a stridently anti-Israel view, they won't get anywhere -- except perhaps ushered out of the government entirely. So they need political cover. They have to be able to urge a new U.S. policy as a pro-Israel policy. Then they have at least a chance of making some headway against the existing pro-Israeli tilt.
Fortunately for them, and for us, a genuinely pro-Israel policy -- one that cares about the peace and security of the Israeli people -- will and must oppose the militaristic policies of the current Israeli leadership. The only way for Israel to achieve peace is to recognize the legitimate right of the Palestinian people to their own fully independent and completely viable state in all of the West Bank and Gaza -- with no Israeli settlements or security roads or military personnel left in Palestine; with the Palestinians left alone to have whatever government they democratically choose, even a government devoted to Islamic principles; with no surreptitious Israeli policies undermining the political and economic success of the Palestinian state; with the Israeli people living in peace and safety, within the borders of June 4, 1967 (with minor border rectifications mutually agreed upon, if necessary); with the Palestinian people compensated, both monetarily and by formal Israeli apology, for the injustice and suffering they have endured for sixty years.
This is the truly pro-Israel policy. It's the only one that can break down the wall -- both literal and psychological -- that Israeli Jews have created to separate themselves from their neighbors. It's the only one that can give Israel peace and security and release the energies of its people to realize the Zionist dream, to fulfill the highest aspirations of the Jewish people. It calls for the Jewish people to give up nothing that is truly their right and due.
It's also pro-Palestinian and pro-peace. It opens the way to productive cooperation between Jews and Palestinians, living side in two secure states, not merely in grudging toleration but in genuine friendship and mutuality.
If enough of the "movable" people in congress and the Obama administration start making that argument, both in public and in private, U.S. policy will begin to change -- very slowly, to be sure, but it will change. And that will produce fundamental change in the Middle East. Regardless of what Israeli leaders say to win votes at home, in fact they need U.S. support to continue their policies of occupation and force.
So even if your only goal is to relieve the suffering of the Palestinians, the best strategy right now is to avoid the appearance of being a one-sided "pro-Palestinian" advocate. The best strategy is to declare that you are pro-Palestine, pro-Israel, and pro-peace. Demand an end to the Israeli occupation and a guarantee of full independence for Palestine, but at the same time insist over and over that you support this program because you want the best for everyone in the region, Israelis as well as Palestinians.
This is the program being advocated by Brit Tzedek v'Shalom, J Street, and other Jewish peace organizations in the U.S., as well as by Gush Shalom and other Jewish movements in Israel, which can still bring thousands into the streets to demonstrate for peace and justice. The best way to help the Palestinian people now is to forge a powerful alliance between these groups and the many groups advocating Palestinian rights, recognizing that ultimately we all want the same thing.
130 Comments so far
Show AllTo help Jack the Ripper's victims, be pro-homicidal vivisectionist too.
To Help Molested Children, Be Pro-Pederast Too.
Thanks, Ira. I'll pass.
Hi Serena! I flagged you too, ain't that swell!
Anyway, I agree we should return to on-topic discourse.
I'll just quote you and respond appropriately to each quote.
"There is only one way to help Palestine and that is to get off one's duff and insist that your government call for an end to the genocide in Gaza. It is YOUR government that is financing it and it is YOUR government that is blocking resolutions and sanctions against Israel."
Are saying that people who are aware of what's going in Gaza should pander to their respective states? What will that do exactly? Every state on Earth is going to take one of three positions:
1. They support Israel for economic and political purposes.
2.They support the Palestinians for economic and political purposes.
3.They remain "neutral" towards the conflict/genocide for economic and political purposes.
Again, as I've stated several times before, you cannot resolve this situation Serena. You can however, take an ethically and tactically correct position, that position being *anti-nationalism*. Is it really so hard to understand that this conflict is spurred on because of nationalist hatred and rising ethnic tensions? The Zionists aren't the only ones you should be attacking. What about the Islamists? These organizations who repress Palestinian workers and then convince their children to strap bombs to themselves and go commit suicide in the name of some false ideal. I have previously pointed out on this thread that I have yet to see anyone criticize and oppose Islamist organizations like Hamas with the same hatred and anger that they oppose Israel and Zionists. The Israeli people and the Palestinian people are simply being manipulated by their individual states and paraded into a senseless conflict based on, again, NATIONALISM!!!!
Why is that so hard to come to terms with?
First off, are those supposed to be stanzas? Secondly, the only comment(s) that I've posted on here that could be taken as hateful, were those that were directed at a Leninist and anti-semite. Hardly the most welcoming people you could encounter, yet you seem content to defend them (or at least Catherine, the anti-semite).
"You have given us a good example,
by your behavior here,
that the issue of hatred and harmful behavior
has very little to do with nationalism."
I don't even know what you're trying to point out, but whatever it is, it's non-existent or irrelevant. If you're attempting to paint the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as not being of nationalist nature, then you really don't know what you're talking about. I've made several POINTS but you seem totally cut off from what I'm trying to get across, you must be an objectivist.
Serena, it's apparent that no one here is particularly fond of you. The same could be said for me, but at least I'm getting feedback. I'm actually engaging in actual discourse, you on the other hand seem to be hopelessly lost within your own dogmatic and immature mind.
Speak for your own damn self. I respect Serena. I find her posts very sensible. At least she's got the courage of her convictions. Your problem with Serena is not my problem. Good day.
In response to the troll, who goes by the user name: "serena":
And you haven't abused me? If you can't handle swear words and emotional discourse then you should probably move to the moon, I hear it's particularly cold and impersonal up there. You have yet to make any intelligent or rational arguments/comments yourself. Just because I infuse my comments with frustration doesn't mean I'm a troll. You on the other hand, act exactly like a troll. You pick on, agitate and annoy those you disagree with. I haven't done that, at all. Yes, I've used harsh language, yes I've been confrontational, but I haven't taken up a condescending and immature tone with anyone (except the Leninist, but he had it coming).
And last time I checked, calling a woman a bitch isn't misogynistic (depending on the context that is). By the same token, classifying ALL Jewish people as Zionists is clearly anti-semitic. If I were to say that ALL women were bitches then yes, I would be misogynistic. I have done nothing of the sort. Catherine on the other hand.....well, the same couldn't be said for her. In any case, I apologize for calling Catherine a bitch (not really, but just for hell of it). But there's no way in hell I'm apologizing for calling her a racist, she is clearly harboring anti-semitic ideas.
Personally, I think you can take your PC and stick it up your ass!!
And just to cover my tracks with the whole "misogynist" claim. Think about this:
George Carlin called Richard Pryor a "nigger", on stage and in front of hundreds of people, for comedic purposes. Does that make Carlin a racist? Of course not. You're really not going to tell me you've never used the word bitch in your entire life, are you serena?
Calling a person a bitch, woman or not, is not misogynistic. The word "cunt" is a common insult used in Britain and Australia, are you going to start trolling them?
I refuse to walk around all day with duck tape over my mouth with the words "Politically Correct" written on them.
Thank you for the response. Sorry about the typo. Now shoo troll, shoo!
This Ira Chernus is just a blatant propagandist. I guess we are to feel guilty now if we are "pro-Palestinians"??? I think people need to read and weigh this man's words carefully. THIS IS NOT THE TIME, WHEN PEOPLE INCLUDING OVER 100 CHILDREN HAVE BEEN MASS MURDERED, TO SIT QUIETLY WAITING FOR THIS CHANGE to happen. Sorry, but Mr. Chernus you are really speaking for the Jewish lobby groups out of fear for your own Tribal identity, which is losing respect quite quickly. There is enough evidence and documentation out that even a cursory research will lead people to the truth in this disasterous "Jewish-State" experiment.
I will NOT in any way let this kind of propaganda ALTER my thinking...which is what he is trying to attempt.
This is the type of action needed in the U.S.:
"Ontario may boycott Israeli academics"
Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:32:31 GMT
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=81006§ionid=351020701
'Canada's largest union says it seeks to impose a ban on Israeli academics working in Ontario in the wake of Israeli attacks on Gaza.'
It has been the Jews that are the main obstacle to any "two-state" solution. I say only a one state solution, given the backhanded and backstabbing history of the Jews. Jews out now!!! They have had over 60 years to Get Along with others and have failed to do so. Many are out of patience with the Jews in Israel. This article is just an appeasement but completely out of touch with reality. Where is the part where the Palestinians in exile get their "right to return"? The Jews CLEARLY want a "Jewish-State". The ultimate solution would be that both groups live in harmony in a State that recognizes the equality and human rights of ALL. But, that is never on the table with these people, because in reality these writers just want to appease the world just enough to keep the status quo. If they really meant business they would speak out against the Racist structure of the Jewish-State....which puts Jews above anyone else. No, they want peace but only so far that that peace entails the Jews keeping the main control.
Etymologically, the name 'Israel' means 'May God fight!' or 'May God show himself to be strong!'.
.Sorry but I contend that definition. My Grandfather was named Israel thus I happen to know this one:
http://www.behindthename.com/name/israel
ISRAEL
Gender: Masculine
Usage: Biblical, Jewish
Pronounced: IZ-ray-əl (English), IZ-ree-əl (English) [key]
From the Hebrew name יִשְׂרָאֵל (Yisra'el) meaning "God contended". In the Old Testament Israel (who was formerly named Jacob; see Genesis 32:28) wrestled with an angel. The ancient and modern states of Israel took their names from him.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
I read the Bible and know about Genesis and Jacob and his being given a new name.
What I gave is not a definition, but an etymology.
There is no incompatibility at all between the meaning you cite and the ones I gave. In fact, they go hand in hand. It is not an accident that Jacob is given that particular name after he battled and contended with the angel. Immediately after being given his new name, Jacob is told: "You confronted gods and men, and you were the strongest."
Also, note that the English verb 'to contend' means "to strive', 'to struggle', 'to compete', 'to argue', and such.
I like that quote you use (assuming it is in fact a quote). It supports a subjective perception of the world. Not an objectivist and dogmatic view.
"The Wars of Gods and Men" by Zechariah Sitchin sheds some light on the deep history of this issue . . .
All national songs, symbols, or names are chauvanistic.
Remember the very first national anthem as repoted by the Two Thousand Year Old Man:
"Let 'em all go to hell, except cave seven!"
Not much new in that department.
My view is that the only important thing to be pro for is peace. Please God the French and Egyptians manage a cessation of fighting.
Naturally I hope that all people will be safe, including Israeli families. However, the main obstacle to peace over several decades has been the mentality of the Israeli leadership. They have refused to work in good faith with any Palestinian leadership, including the secular and reasonable Yasir Arafat. They cynically exploit the history and fears of the Jewish people to justify their positions, and often to divert attention from their own corruption.
The Israeli mentality has become that of a nuclear armed survivalist cult, persecuted by the world. Behind their actions is a belief that it has a special relationship with God which entitles it to do anything it wants, take anything it wants, no matter what the cost to others. They have reduced their perception of Palestinians to being less than animals as a way to excuse their theft of their lands, destruction of their homes, murder of their civilians.
What would you do if you were a Palestinian?
Joe
The Iranian Marxist Tendency has an interesting take on the war on Gaza: http://www.marxist.com/zionism-declares-all-out-war-on-gaza.htm
Watch this clip, it is very interesting and then go to their site:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeaZuj7ruwM
Site:
http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Demonstrations/20081228.cfm
The 19th Century concept of a "Jewish State" inevitably led to an artificial Sparta on the Mediterranean, with all the distortions and militarism implied.
It has been a disaster for the Jewish people, no less than for the Palestinian people.
The bitterness is now well past the point where the two peoples could live together in one state, which all along was the only real solution, though of course never acceptable to fanatics on either side.
What we now see is a permanent tragedy.
None of the "solutions" on offer have a prayer.
And this:
'So even if your only goal is to relieve the suffering of the Palestinians, the best strategy right now is to avoid the appearance of being a one-sided "pro-Palestinian" advocate'
is a truly shameful line. Change it to this:
'So even if your only goal is to relieve the suffering of the Jews, the best strategy right now is to avoid the appearance of being a one-sided "pro-Jewish" advocate'
How does that sound to you, Mr Chernus?
I can't speak for Ira, but I think his message says exactly that, although I would substitute "pro-Israeli" for "pro-Jewish".
Nice, illuminating modification of Chernus's sentence. The substitution speaks volumes.
an interesting line:
"It calls for the Jewish people to give up nothing that is truly their right and due."
And what would that be, their right and due? That their g-d promised them the land?
If Zionism is racism, how can anyone support Israel?
Would you ask us to be more supportive of the Nazis? And American Jews, so indoctrinated to tribal allegiance and unquestioning support of the Fatherland are "good Germans".
Sorry, there should be are consequences for actions. There should be accountability otherwise why should we have bothered with Nuremberg?
using the formulation "the state which calls itself israel" also allows the acceptance of, or non opposition to, ira's phrase, " to realize the Zionist dream, to fulfill the highest aspirations of the Jewish people". , which seems very important to him.
Tribal allegiance and indoctrination into believing they are the only legitimate victim gives them licence to be blind to the humanity of others.
the state that calls itself israel. i think this formulation is very important. it allows us to see that something has appeared in the human collective similar to, or the same as, a cancer tumour. and it can well bring about death for humanity as a whole. the state generally, (and the trans-national corporation) are pathological symptoms of the illusion of scarcity, separation, and fear, taking place within the human mind.--but the mind functions through the body. heroism and beauty must stand forth, as they have already in the example of rachel corrie....
I don't think U.S. political leaders will change policies based on the demands of their constituents (that is, U.S. voters). I don't see any effective means of communicating with them except by massive civil disobedience.
Nevertheless, I did write letters, which no doubt now sit unread in my Congressional representatives' electronic dust bins. If they do read them, they'll tally the opinions and then just pursue the status quo as if it never happened.
I don't think it's really a matter of communication nuance, as Chernus suggests. The United States government supports Israel for so-called "strategic reasons." Israel provides a foothold in the oil-rich Middle East, along with intelligence. U.S. oligarchs want access to oil to conduct future wars and fuel industry.
The U.S. government has supported various dictators around the world for the same sorts of reasons. They don't stand on principle. For instance, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a family-run dictatorship with a fanatical religious faction that pushes Osama bin Laden-style political Islam, yet petro-dollar cycling makes them a close U.S. ally.
Appealing on principles just marks you out as a plebian, and our so-called representatives represent elites, not plebians.
So, U.S. oligarchy and elite interests are part of the problem in achieving change. The whole bloody past and concept of a Jewish state are other obstacles. It doesn't help that the United States always backs Israel, which doesn't need it. I've heard that Israel is the fourth largest military power in the world, with 200 or so nuclear weapons stockpiled.
All U.S. military aid to Israel should be cut off, of course. However, the blood money helps prop up the U.S. military industrial complex, so U.S. officials won't cut off the aid.
I don't mean to spread pessimism. Get out in the streets. However, be realistic about Obama's positions on the Palestinian question, which hasn't been noteworthy. His current silence is quite murderous.
-TIA
.I would echo the applause for a well reasoned and thoughtful position. The lack of protest here in the USA and elsewhere is a condemnation of all humanity. The support of the murderous genocide of Israel for economic and strategic reasons is equally shameful.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
There is protest. Don't expect the mainstream Corporate media to cover it. Get a Free To Air TV system, cheap, and allows free and legal TV copy of unencoded non-domestic worldwide TV and news. Then dump the domestic propaganda TV from your viewing. See: http://www.tech-faq.com/free-to-air-satellite.shtml And consider buying a short-wave radio and listening to world wide broadcasts.
We really are in a bind. If we engage in peaceful protests, and letter writing, we are utterly ignored.
I've tried it with my congressman. I get a form letter back which is written as if I actually appealing for the opposing position. In other words the letter was ignored and the congressman simply rammed his agenda down my throat.
I envy the people in truly democratic nations like Greece and Thailand and before that, places like Serbia when the mass popular movement ejected Milisevic. There they have street protest that include plenty of so-called "violence" and "terrorism" i.e. rocks, vandalism and molotov cocktails. Arrests are made of cource - then the government sits down and actually addresses their grievances.
Here troops would be sent in and there would be massacres and blood flowing in the streets. the government officials would defend their massacre by stating that "proportionality" doesn't apply with "terrorists".
---USAn---
The solution to your bind lies in organising the workers in your arms factories, get them to strike. Get your dock workers to refuse to load ships shipping arms to Israel. Get your airport workers to refuse to handle arms cargo to Israel. Get media workers to strike unless the media agrees to provide viewers, listeners and readers with the truth. Organise communities, do grassroots work. Start a defiance campaign, mobilise university students. Close down university institutions that lock into the military industrial complex. Awaken the American working class to the fact that your democracy has failed and represents only the interests of money moingers.
I really like your post "Thoughts".
We must continue to do what we can. Organize letter-writing campaigns, try to get our friends and neighbors to pay attention to the disproportionate situation and the war crimes that Israel is perpetrating, and if you are so inclined, make a nuisance of yourself in public or engage in other civil disobediance.
But at the same time we should be realistic and not blind to opportunities that might arise which may be short of perfection, but are still steps in the right direction.
Your point about Obama is a good one too.
I see WAY too much reliance these days upon the idea of rescue-from-above. The concept that a great savior will come and through the ultimate goodness and principled hard work of that savior the world will be fixed. This is a highly false view of the way change happens. REAL change, lasting change, occurs on the ground. (Though I admit the odd savior doesn't hurt, still, they tend to be a follower of their times and not a leader. Even if Obama turns out to be a brilliant President it will not be because he works alone.)
The Rovian's figured this out and that's why they started on the anti-science, anti-education, pro-religion, and anti-abortion campaigns. The whole idea was to find the kinds of wedge issues that would churn up the culture of the working poor and middle classes.
And they succeeded in changing the way average Americans think.
It was so effective that you get people who are working three jobs and 80 hour weeks with no benefits and no paid vacation time (because all the jobs are 'part-time') who will INSIST that they want 'small government' because "I work damn hard for a living and I ain't gonna want no lazy welfare Mom to have my money!"
This is the culture that we must work to start changing while we also work to change our government.
Trapped in Gaza, Canadians ask for help
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/01/06/gaza-canadian.html
Canadians helped American when we were trapped in Tehran so maybe Bush will return the favior by offering them some aid and comfort - a vinagar soaked sponge perhaps.
Everything one needs to know about Israel can be read here - from 40 year resident of Israel.
Ira, please read it.
http://www.counterpunch.org/buch01062009.html
---USAn---
Thank you for the link. Hadn't been to counterpunch in a while. Has lots of other good perspectives on this situation too if you scroll down through the recent postings.
The terrorist state of Israel, based on religious racism, has allowed the Exodus of Jews from around the world to migrate to Israel and to claim Palestinian land as their own. Every time I hear an Israeli with a Brooklyn accent talking about how he should have the right to settle where he wants on Palestinian lands, I want to puke. Go back to the fucking US or Russia or wherever you fucking came from. You have no right to be in Israel. The Zionist wouldn't have to be so expansionist if they'd kick these assholes out now. The more this goes on, the more I want to see the end of Israel, period. This whole thing is totally illegal under international law and has been from day one, when the Europeans and the US, in their effort to cover up how they allowed the Nazis to get away with what they did, came up with the idea to give Jews a state in Palestine. Enough already! God damn the Zionists and the corporate elites who finance and arm them.
Just a thought but is the takeover of Palestine really any different than the takeover of North and South America by Europeans?
No.
Is it any different from Turkey trying to wipe out the Kurds? Is it any different from the Ethiopians/Americans trying to invade Somalia? Is it any different from Islamists trying to wipe out Jews? Of course it isn't.
Which makes you wonder why Israel is deemed to be so special from the rest of the states that are trying to colonize/invade other nations or murder/terrorize other people. Of course Israel is a terrorist state, of course they're slaughtering Palestinians, of course they're committing acts of colonialist invasion, but why aren't the people on this site screaming "Ethiopia is a fascist state that commits terrorism"!!! Or "Death to Hamas"!!
God forbid someone on here says something like........"Death to America"!!!!
"De-countryize America"!!
"America is an illegitimate nation".
"The American-nationalist pigs should all go to hell"!!
Four words. Nationalist bias and hatred.
I'm not defending Israel or Zionism. I'm defending the possibility of Israelis and Palestinians freeing themselves from the sick and violent cycle that they are paraded into like chess pieces by their political and religious figureheads.
Hence, anti-nationalism.
1. I'm not living anywhere near Turtle Island.
2. That's an indigenous struggle, not a nationalist one. Nationalism is complete obedience to the governing institutions of a defined "country"(i.e. the State), as well as complete allegiance to a homogenized group of people that define themselves as superior or special in one way or another. The situation on Turtle Island is not that. If you can prove to me that the Turtle Island struggle is a nationalist struggle, then I can guarantee that I would criticize and oppose that struggle.
I believe in self-determination for individuals and communities. I don't believe in nationalist liberation. Nationalist liberation is not self-determination, it is merely submission to authoritarian institutions/organizations that claim to have the interests of "their people" in mind. If you do a quick history check, I believe you'll find that all nationalist struggles end up complete failures....even if they do succeed.
because the US supports and funds Israel--that is what makes it so "special".
The US "supports and funds" Turkey. The US "supports and funds" Ethiopia. The US "supports and funds" Georgia. The US "supports and funds" Equatorial Guinea. I could go on and on and on with this with dozens of nations that are *supported, funded and armed* by the US. Israel just happens to get a larger paycheck from Uncle Sam. It's not because they're zionists or jews. It's because they're a "western democracy" conveniently placed in the middle east. Therefore, they make a good outpost for the US to expand its global authority.
Next time, when you try to make a counter argument, it would be good if you made it longer and more substantial than one sentence.
That, and the fact that Israel constantly tries to portray itself as the "victim" in this situation.
Enough!
You know what, I think Ira almost got it bang on. Sure I want to scream at this apartheid rogue nuclear state but I've tried that for the last 8 years with the U.S. and I'm not sure it did any good. The world needs a solutions now. There are too many other problems right now. Where I would differ with Ira is that I would not say we should be pro-Israel (this just sounds offensive at this point) but what about pro-Israel peace movement.
In many ways if you condemn all Israelis, you should also condemn all Americans for the last 8 years of U.S. death and destruction. But we know there were, just like in Israel now, many Americans bitterly opposed to war.
The U.S. hears very little about the peace movement in Israel, just like the MSM ignored the peace movement in the U.S. If we want a solution these people need the world's support more than ever. People need to hear the other voices of Israel.
People need to hear American Jews denouncing Israel insted of always trying to rationalize and justify and excuse it.
I think it is possible to support Israeli or American PEOPLE (those who genuinely want peace) and still not support Zionism/Imperialism. Why not? I am American and I don't agree with the wars we start or all the weapons we sell. I agree there are Israelis who are in the same situation, feeling strong opposition to Israeli agression. Many Israelis openly question and even oppose Zionism, and we should embrace them. But to be "pro-Israel" might be a stretch for a lot of people because when it comes right down to it, it's still a racist, colonial settler project rooted in Jewish supremacism. Unless and until that is abandoned, I would have a hard time saying I am "pro-Israel."
Good point.
As an American I would have a hard time saying I am pro-US.
Why can't we just be pro-HUMAN.
What is going on in Gaza, as in Darfur, as in Iraq, as in ... is a HUMAN issue.
It's about War and Peace.
That simple.
And you have to decide what side you are on.
So we agree?
Yup, pretty much. :)
i should have said, monstrous devouring idol. herzl thought the german state was the highest expression of human culture..the zionists created something inhuman, similar to a modern trans-national corporation, the state that calls itself israel.
Mauritania recalls envoy
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2448908,00.html
That's number two. Chavez beat him to it I think. We need more nations to follow the leads of these two.
Can there be a "post-Zionist" Israel with equal rights for all of its citizens? If a bi-national state were implemented in the Land of Palestine, then I would support that state, but I don't see how any person could accept a Zionist Israel, since that is based on Jewish supremacism and dispossession of the Palestinian people.
"Post-zionism"? Uhhhh, no. There's no such thing as "post-nationalism", at least not while nationalism has such a firm stranglehold of humanity. As of now, there can only be nationalism and anti-nationalism (and internationalism, but lets not get into that right now). The New New Leftists (moderate and militant) must embrace anti-nationalism if they seek to embolden the struggle they wish to win. Can you see the logic in that? What's going on in Israel/Palestine right now (what's been going for damn near 60 years) is a very fucked situation. So stop trying come up with solutions, they're not going to happen. You can wish and wish with all your might, but your wishes won't be granted. Just come up with a correct position that relates to the situation, and apply that to your aspirations/dreams. Anti-nationalism is the right way to go!!
....not morally right, or ideologically right. But tactically and ethically right.
Uhhh..yes, there can be a post-Zionist state, just as there is a "post-Apartheid" South Africa. You are not going to get rid of nation states any time soon. You can also "wish and wish with all your might" but a post-Zionist Israel is a lot more likely than a post-nationalist world!
You're joking right? Have you taken a look at the current state of things in South Africa? The ANC is a very bad joke. Oh what a surprise, the ANC was created by a nationalist movement!! Apartheid is still prevalent in South Africa, as the ANC is a capitalist political party. You can't have capitalism without apartheid. You want links?
Ira Chernus is trying to build support for the only ethical and practical solution: embrace of universalist humanist values, and policies that reflect them. One can focus on something else but that focus will prevent one from achieving the solution. It must be achieved from the grass roots up. Nirvana will be reached when the people vote in those values in elections and general exchange/association. So the task at hand is to convince the people to embrace those values and their responsibility to vote accordingly.
I'm trying to build support for the only ethical and practical solution: embrace of anti-nationalist, anti-authoritarian, voluntarily cooperative and mutual aide values and actions that reflect them. One must not focus on single issues and one must not choose between power blocs or "camps", it will inadvertently or not, prevent one from achieving their goals. It can only be achieved from the grass roots up. Liberty and freedom will be reached when the people take direct action against their oppressors. So the task at hand is to cause the people to rise up in insurrection and defeat those who seek to exploit, murder and imprison them for profit and power.
You see how that works?
Three times this week that UN schools and refuges have been bombed by Israel.
The UN TOLD Israel that they were refugee centers...they fly the UN flag and Israel has the fucking coordinates.
A UN official speaking on the news is denying the false Israeli claims that Hamas if firing rockets from the UN schools.
How can anyone support these vicious murderers? Even staying silent like "Mr. One President at a Time" is abominable.
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to every one striking at the root" HD Thoreau
Cindy,
Saying "one president at a time" and "no Comment" is not abominable.. in fact it gives an indication of changes in policy to come.
In fact what Obama is doing and saying is very much in the spirit of this article.
Hacking away at the branches of evil is fine but Obama is no more evil than you or me and he certainly is not the root of evil.
More on the Arab view http://english.aljazeera.net/
We are all in a hell of a fix and we need to pull together NOW.
"We are all in a hell of a fix and we need to pull together NOW"
Is that why he is silent?
What if the Palestinians' skin was a shade darker and 600 were slaughtered?
Wonder if Obama would be silent if it was his own "tribe" being slaughtered?
Face it, Obama's PR pitch that he is "pragmatic" is the failed old centrist triangulation strategy of sell-out with a shiny new spin on it.
All this garbage about unity is feel good rhetoric for the naive & assumes that everything and everyone is on a fair footing--when there are times when one must make a stand against injustice and brutality and stand in opposition.
That he chooses not to speak, speaks volumes about him as a human being.
Obama chose not to speak as a human being--and that has NOTHING to do with speaking out of place.
Strike one was when he demanded Democrats in congress to line up behind the bailout transfer of wealth.
This is strike 2 and he ain't even in the door yet.
Welcome back Cindy...
I also find this stunning level of support of Israel by the west as they commit atrocity after atrocity, absolutely outrageous. It is enough to give up hope - the powerful and murderous run the world and nothing is ever going to change.
The only thing that could come to mind is the an alternate universe where Nazi Germany gets cheered and it receives full US and British support as it flattens Europe.
I am tired of all this timid, polite criticism of Israel, followed by condemnation of the ways the Palestinian choose to defend themselves - especially this insisting that they become some kind of Gandhian pacifist.
As an individual, it is fine and admirable for someone to adopt pacifism.
But for me, a white resident of a vile imperialist state, to to preach to another person, or whole whole people how they should defend themselves against their oppressors is the absolute height of racist arrogance!
---USAn---
I see nothing helpful in this comment and it surprises me.
We can rant and rave all we want and we need to. But then what?
They could do nothing without the u.s. and we need to focus on what is going on in our own backyard that keeps it going. Obama is not going to do anything different as well we know. Change isn't going to come thru government. It is going to come through realizing that there is always a creative solution and what we do to another we do to ourselves. We didn't get that yet, thanks to organized religion which is patriarchal and tells us we are sinners.
It is time for humanity to grow up or self destruct. Quite frankly, with all the NGOs (and i know something about that) that have been in israel working for peace, they seem to have been incredibly ineffectual. They are always based in some kind of 'Christiany' thinking that is simply not creative. It is always the same pablum and it is hard to take. Well meaning as heck, yes, but nothing transformational.
It is time for a major paradigm shift.
The Israelis did the same thing during their savaging of Lebanon in 2006. They bombed at least one building that had a huge UN flag on its roof and the coordinates of which had been transmitted to the Israeli air force.
I'm not following the logic here. Should people also, during WWII, have been pro-Nazi Germany as they decried that nation's crimes against humanity? In our own nation, should abolitionists also have been pro-slavery in order to stop slavery? I just don't get this mode of thought. When you have a situation of oppression and you want to change it, you put the pressure on the actor in the situation that holds the power -- especially in an instance such as this where the other side, the Palestinians, have little to no political power in the world at large.
Planb says:
"When you have a situation of oppression and you want to change it, you put the pressure on the actor in the situation that holds the power -- especially in an instance such as this where the other side, the Palestinians, have little to no political power in the world at large."
But not when one enters the zone called 'pro-Israel' or 'Zionism': in that zone, a distorting mode of thought, one that defies all reason, logic, and morality, holds sway. It distorts because it attempts to justify the unjustifiable, to defend the undefendable, namely Israel's sixty-year-long deathwork in the lands adjacent to it.
In response to "bligh4"'s comment:
Again, a perfect display of ignorance and a lack of analysis when it comes to the ongoing conflict/genocide that is taking place in Gaza and the West Bank (and yes, it is a genocide if you use the legal meaning that is accepted by nearly every nation-state on Earth. Although I'm not saying that gives it special legitimacy). The Egyptian regime is just as determined to oppress the Palestinian people. They have, on several occasions, had their troops open fire on Palestinians that were trying to cross the southern border, through Rafah crossing (I am referring to the recent break in the crossing that was caused by set explosives). You propose to replace two regimes (the Israeli state and Hamas) with another? How foolish can you be?
bligh4
Eyedea
How foolish can you be? The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. Let's keep having Israel and Hamas at each other's throats. Good Idea.
Your ignorance (and hiding behind the word genocide) is telling.
Have a nice day.
Huh? You've failed to read my other comments. Please read them to understand my position on Hamas and Israel.
,
This Israeli War on the Palestinians is GENOCIDE.
U.S. Taxpayers Dollars are paying for this GENOCIDE.
Where ever Hitler is today....he is smiling.........
,
Please, it's bad enough without going over the top with accusations of genocide. Israel is not committing genocide. They are not trying to wipe out the entire Arab people.
What they are committing is properly called ethnic cleansing. Of course, most of the time, they are doing it slowly and quietly - creating "facts on the ground" by quietly building Jew-only posh neighborhoods and Jew-only highways on Palestinian land and making thing intolerable for Palestinians - so as to avoid too much international criticism.
In the Israeli Dissident community or USAn Jews like Norman Finkelstein - such things completely uncontroversial*.
Respected right-wing Israeli historian Benny Morris defends Israel by explaining that Israel is doing nothing more than what US did to clear it's land of natives. I'm not kidding.
*a sample:
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/20151
---USAn---
PJD is not a zionist. Read his post carefully. Ethnic cleansing is just a slower form of genocide.
Come on let's inject some humour, let's see there was an Israeli, a Jew and zionist sitting in a pub when ...
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
the only thing that can help or redeem what has happened is when jews are willing to die to bring an end to the monstrous idol that is the state that calls itself israel, by forming another lincoln brigade, this time to aid the palestinians rather than republican spain.
The nationalist hatred and bias displayed on this comment board is despicable. Granted, the article displays naivety, but not because it's calling for a Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestine message. The only "correct" position to take in relation to this ongoing conflict is an *anti-nationalist* position. So far, I'm not seeing that based on the majority of, if not all, the comments that have been posted so far. I would go so far as to say that a lot of the comments are anti-semitic.
"Zionism is the root of the problem, not a moral right to be honored."
This is the what I mean by "nationalist hatred and bias". Both Zionism AND Arab nationalism (Islamism) are the root of the problem when it comes to the Israel/Palestinian war. Of course yohocoma and others fail to see this, they let their bold stupidity get in the way. No doubt, the Palestinians are the victims of an ongoing ethno-cultural/racist apartheid and ethnic cleansing (and arguably, genocide), but as long as they and the Israelis give in to nationalist hatred and ethnic/racist hatred for each other, then they are both to blame.
All I have to say is:
Down with the Israeli government and down with Hamas!!
Nationalism is death!!
Long live the spirit of Greece!! Anarchy for all!!!
There we go again with the anti-semitism charge! Is that the only defense Israel and Israel supporters have left?
If anti-semitism had never existed, Israel and Israel supporters would have to invent it.
Uhh, did you even read his post?
He's calling for the downfall of the Israeli government.
He lives in a pipe dream. A typical "anarchist". With these types, "government" is always the problem, be it one from the right or the left.
1. Yes, I read his post.
2. He does use the charge of anti-semitism.
3. I am obviously not impressed with his totally unrealistic call for anti-nationalism, although I am personally rather anemic in matters of patriotism and nationalism.
4. I do grant, however, that he calls for the abolition of Israel as a nationalist entity ("down with the Israeli government") and that, as such, he cannot be said to be a defender of Israel.
5. I seized upon his remark about anti-semitism as an opportunity to make a more general point about the all too easily thrown about charge of anti-semitism, which is used to be render Israel immune to any sort of criticism.
Finally, a little support. Thank you, very much!
:)
I would care about preserving Israel and their security if they were a decent law abiding country, as most are. Unfortunately, they are an international terrorist organization fully sponsored by another country that traffics in terror, the U.S.
Until the criminally insane Neocons/Zio-zealots who run the U.S./Israeli alliance from the shadows are somehow upended this blood lust carnival of death in the Middle East will not end.
How anyone could refer to Israel's wanton slaughter of hundreds of defenseless civilians entrapped in the largest open air prison on the planet as a "war" is quite beyond me. I wonder how Mr. Chernus would feel about the Holocaust being referred to as the "German/Jewish conflict" or the "war between the Jews and the Germans."
Call it what it is, Mr. Chernus: It's the GENOCIDE of an utterly defenseless and trapped people who have been suffering at the hands of Israeli brutality for over half a century.
First and foremost you call this a war when in actuality it is genocide. Then you talk about the even-handed approach of the mainstream media but repeat the standard threats of political ramifications should any politician oppose Israeli policies. Every time something happens over there people like yourself (well meaning and not) begin writing about how complicated the solutions, justifications for Israeli aggression, and the need for support (in various forms) of the Israeli government. Meanwhile, over 600 people have been killed; with the majority of them being civilians and the houses keep getting bulldozed, the genocide continues day in and day out and a group of people that represent less than 1% of the US population stand ready to shout down the first voice that dares to speak out. What we need is not policy and a simple rule, NO MORE PERIOD!! Israel survives not because of there own abilities but because we support them completely. If any other country in the world behaved as Israel continues we would be inflicting embargoes, threatening military action and calling for UN sanctions yet we supply them with the weapons, resources and financial funding to continue this whole sale slaughter. Within the US "Pro-Israeli" groups are funded by war mongers looking to keep the Middle East unstable, extremist Christians who believe that the "Zionist" will bring about the end of the world and the less then 1% that support Israel simply because of there religious affiliation. Many, many Jews also oppose the actions of the Israeli government but more often then not say nothing for the same fear of reprisals that keep our politicians and media quiet as well.
The only solution to the Israeli occupation of Gaza is for our US policy clearly and unequivocally state that aggression will not be tolerated and all Israeli forces must leave Gaza immediately. Enough with the continually spewed rhetoric about complications and difficulties.
bligh4
I keep hearing charges of "genocide" bandied about, but have not seen any evidence that Israel wants to exterminate the people of Gaza or the West bank.
Frankly, if Israel IS trying to commit genocide- they suck at it. The residents of Gaza are certainly not living like anyone would want to live, but they have a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality than their neighbor Egypt. They also have one of the highest rate of natural increase in the world, their population growing from 300,000 to 1.8 million in little over a generation.
The overuse of the word genocide cheapens the acts of actual genocides, like that committed against the Armenians, the Holocaust, Pol Pot's regime, and the slaughter of the Tutsis of Rwanda.
Israel should pull out totally in Gaza. Then let Egypt take over the administration and provision of the area.
Perhaps you should consult the internationally accepted definition of genocide:
http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm
One would have to be seriously divorced from reality to argue that Israel's conduct over the last half century does not satisfy this definition.
I saw bligh4's earlier posts. He once joked about his daughter having a Muslim friend although he admitted his actual intolerance of that Muslim friend. If bligh4 were even paying attention, he would have found out that even the Israeli militants admitted that their intention was not to kill Hamas but to kill the Palestinians they "think" are terrorists. By the way, there was an article on this site about Egypt being just as guilty as Israel. I noticed that the zionist trolls including bligh4 never bothered to show up. My guess is these zionist trolls know everything about the zionist leaders' strange bedfellow relationship with the neighboring Arab dictators that they don't want us to know about. Of course, none of this would be possible without the US supplying all these nations billions of dollars in taxpayer money. bligh4 is supposedly a rancher but loves it when billions of dollars in US taxpayer money are wasted yearly in doling out massive amounts of WMDs to rogue nations around the world including Israel.
bligh4
Hi JWVerez, "admitted his actual intolerance of that Muslim friend" . I guess you feel that if you have a point to make LYING is ok. I never said that. I never implied that. Prove it.
JWVerez is an Islamist troll. There, I can do it too.
Have a nice day.