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House Dems Debate Cadillac Tax on Insurance Plans
House Democrats met Thursday to devise a negotiating strategy as the two chambers begin to hash out differences between their respective health care bills.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Calif., right, gestures during a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Jan. 5, 2010, to discuss health care legislation.
(AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais) Democrats were nearly unified in calling for the House to push to
include its revenue-raising mechanism -- a surtax on the wealthy --
rather than the Senate plan to tax so-called "Cadillac" insurance
plans.
Unions strongly oppose the tax on insurance, which would disproportionately hit their members. And as health care costs soar, more and more plans will be caught by the tax.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told the caucus she's pushing hard and that union efforts should be directed at swaying the White House rather than her.
"What are you calling me for?" Pelosi said she jokes with labor when they press her on the issue.
As a candidate, Obama shredded his opponent, John McCain, for proposing just such a tax. McCain's embrace of the idea, in fact, deeply damaged his standing among union households, internal labor polling showed.
Now in the White House, Obama is supporting the tax on insurance plans.
Freshman Rep. Jared Polis (D-Colo.), who has long been critical of the surtax on the wealthy, which he worries could hit small businesses, spoke up in favor of the tax on insurance. His comments about union opposition to the tax struck some on the call as surprising. Big Labor may be opposed to it, he told his colleagues, but the unions support the Senate plan, which must mean that they'll go along with a bill that includes such a tax.
"I said that the unions supported the Senate bill, which they did," Polis told HuffPost. "So that was just a simple factual statement that the unions supported the bill in the Senate. That was my only mention of unions in my comment."
The AFL-CIO, however, did not back the Senate bill. "But for this health care bill to be worthy of the support of working men and women, substantial changes must be made," said the union's statement upon passage. "[B]ecause it bends toward the insurance industry, the Senate bill will not check costs in the short term, and its financing asks working people and the country to pay the price, even as benefits are cut. The House bill is the model for genuine health care reform. Working people cannot accept anything less than real reform."
Polis said that he thought the tax could get broad support among House Democrats if the price that defines a Cadillac plan is lifted by a few thousand or if it is indexed to the growth of health care costs or if families under a certain income level are exempted.
James Kotalik, a Colorado shop steward with the Service Employees International Union local 105, told HuffPost he's still pushing Polis to oppose the tax. "The excise tax on benefits in the Senate health care bill will affect many middle class Americans, including me. I work as a radiological technologist and my health plan is good, but by no stretch of the imagination is it a 'Cadillac plan.' Yet it would likely be subject to the excise tax when it goes into effect. And since medical inflation is rising much faster than overall inflation, every year more and more people will be affected," he said. "If the goal is to have accessible, affordable, quality healthcare for everyone, why is the mark being lowered? That's why we continue to urge our Representatives in Congress to oppose the tax on benefits."
Polis, however, has the president for cover. "My position on how we should pay for health care reform is much more similar to President Obama's. President Obama asked us to use this particular mechanism because it can reduce health care costs," Polis told HuffPost, adding that one other Democrat spoke up on behalf of the tax.
Rep. Carol Shea-Porter (D-N.H.) spoke in opposition to Polis. a"I was standing up for my constituents," she said. "I have serious concerns about the excise tax proposal and the effect that it could have on middle class families in New Hampshire and across the country."
Democrats on the call also griped about some recent reporting. Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-Calif.), chair of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, said that reports that the caucus was leveraging health care to get a commitment from the White House on comprehensive immigration reform are incorrect.
Pelosi pushed back against reports that the House would be rolled by the Senate in cross-Capitol negotiations over the final health care bill.
"Don't buy into that," Pelosi told the caucus, according to a person on the call, then added, emphasizing each word: "Not true for a second."
Much depends, however, on who's defining rolled. The Speaker and the members of her caucus did not vow to hold out for a public health insurance option or commit to oppose any bill that didn't include one, as more than 50 members had previously promised.
The House bill includes a public option; the Senate bill does not. (The public option died in December.)
The House members, meanwhile, argued that if the bill doesn't include a public option, aggressive measures are needed to keep insurers honest and make plans affordable. Several caucus members emphasized the importance of increasing subsidies to make private insurance more affordable -- insurance that people will be mandated to purchase.
Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, pushed for the House version of a national insurance exchange, according to a leadership aide. A national exchange would be easier to police and create more competition, advocates argue; the Senate plan creates exchanges in each of the 50 states.
Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.), chair of the Rules Committee, made the case for including House language that revokes the antitrust exemption currently enjoyed by insurers.
More than a hundred members joined the call and 25 either spoke or asked questions, said a leadership aide.
Waxman also spoke out forcefully against giving any special treatment to states that happen to be represented by swing-voting Democrats, according to a person on the call. There was no disagreement on that question.
Senate and House staff will be working through the weekend on merging the bills, Pelosi told her members. The full House caucus will meet on Tuesday back in Washington, as the House gets back to business. The Senate doesn't return until the next week.
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53 Comments so far
Show All"What are you calling me for?" Pelosi said she jokes with labor when they press her on the issue (and directs the press to call the White House).
Response: This is an indication Pelosi isn't a leader in trying to improve health care but just following the instructions of others (be it the White House or special interests). It also seems to indicate she is a very weak person who is more concerned about what people think about her than fighting to do the right thing.
When has Pelosi ever done "the right thing"?
I'll let you know when she resigns. It will be her first.
What a bunch.
Vote all of them out.
What an act.
Vote all of them out.
Liars all.
Vote all of them out.
Universal Health Care is the only moral option.
it is truly a scary photo...brrrrrr...
the classic cheney photo rivals for psychotic chillingness...
I just looked back to the photo, hadn't really noticed it. Now I can't stop laughing. Thanks! I needed that.
It would make a great poster: the Dem party shakers and movers, all with silly party hats on their heads: "They're the life of the party!"
Went back and looked at it harder myself. What a hoot. Check out Pelosi's middle finger. I swear it looks like a muted "gesture".
"As a candidate, Obama shredded his opponent, John McCain, for proposing just such a tax. McCain's embrace of the idea, in fact, deeply damaged his standing among union households, internal labor polling showed.
Now in the White House, Obama is supporting the tax on insurance plans."
Now, who dares act surprised?
Obama broke more campaign promises in his first year in office than any of this 43 predecessors.
Another out and out attack on the working class, to avoid repealing Bush's millionaire tax breaks. Nothing Obama, Pelosi and the gang does ever surprises me.
So what exactly will be considered a 'Cadillac plan'? If it includes ANY worker health plan, it's a regressive tax. Much, much better to tax the wealthy. Last year my wife's United Health Care monthly contribution went up--now we might have to pay a tax on top of that?? Outrageous!
Pretty much any comprehensive plan, like most unions win in their contracts, and most government employees and teachers have, will have high enough combined employer/employee costs to be a "Cadillac" plan.
The specific purpose of this provision is to raise revenue while encouraging people to get low-coverage, ultra-high deductible "consumer driven" plans, so they can be indoctrinated to a proper respect for the "Discipline of the Market!"
At an appearance in Seattle, Speaker Pelosi was asked by a reporter, "Do you think it's fair to send people to jail for not buying health insurance?"
Pelosi responded: Well, the point is that we want to make sure everyone has access to healthcare. For a long time now, people who haven't had healthcare, or provided it, have placed a burden on others. Everyone is paying a price for uncompensated care---I don't need to tell you that--in a hospital. So this is to say we all have to do our part, and that was the point of the bill.
Reporter: ...If you don't buy insurance, you go to jail?
Pelosi: I think the legislation is very fair in this respect. It gives people the opportunity to have healthcare, access to quality healthcare. If they can't afford it, it provides subsidies for them to do so, but do you think it's fair if someone says I'm just not going to have it, and if I get sick, I'll just go to the emergency room and send the bill to you?
-----
First, uninsured don't just "send the bill to you." Most people struggle to pay their bills for the simple reason they want to continue their lifestyle. Not everyone is either a member of congress, a union or destitute. We are fighting to survive and thrive in an increasingly rigged system. What this bill doesn't change is that taxes will still cover the bills of many, and the companies will still be able to pass those taxes through to their profits.
Speaker Pelosi, for a number of reasons I might have to take you up on your "very fair" offer of five years in jail and a $250,000 fine. While I have often been uninsured--not because I wanted to be, but because insurance is not affordable and does not provide adequate protection from bankruptcy and access to care--I had hoped Democrats would rectify these problems. Instead, they have operated solely from the Business Roundtable's premise that the single cause of unaffordable healthcare is the fault of the uninsured. It is a blame the victim mentality that ignores the fact that costs will increase infinitely - so long as companies whose profits are tax dollars can write legislation.
I would like Pelosi (or anyone) to tell me who gets free medical care at emergency rooms?
I once went to an emergency room, and I was not insured, and there was nothing free about it. They didn't want to treat me at all.
Here's what happened. There was something wrong with my wrist, and I thought I may have fractured it. I made an appointment with doctor and waited ten days for the appointment. On the appointed day the waiting room was full, the doctor was not in and his staff didn't know where he was. (Yes, that's what they said.)
The staff people told me to go next door to the hospital emergency room and have the wrist x-rayed. I declined, saying I didn't think it was an emergency. They insisted.
So I went to the emergency room. When I told the emergency room staff I had no insurance but would pay by check or credit card they were hostile. They couldn't do that, they said. They said they did not know what their services cost, and they would have to send a bill in a couple weeks. I said I would pay the bill. They wanted every bit of I.D. I had ... everything but a thumbprint.
I then waited four hours before being seen by a physician's assistant. I never saw a doctor. The x-ray was negative. The issue was diagnosed as a ganglion cyst (benign). I was advised to have it surgically removed. The cost would be $1000.
I next went to see a naturopath (doctor of naturopathy). She identified the ganglion cyst and provided a homeopathic remedy. The cyst was gone within a week (and never returned.) The total cost was about $120.
Later, the hospital sent a bill for around $400. Thinking that was way too high for a wrist x-ray and brief chat with a physician's assistant, I paid two-thirds of it. I was then harassed by bill collectors.
A couple years later, our state attorney general sued the state's hospitals for OVER-charging uninsured patients. Investigation showed hospitals were charging uninsured patients double (and more) what they were billing insurance companies for the same services. The hospitals then agreed to charge uninsured patients no more than they charged insurance companies.
There is no free service at emergency rooms. (In fact, they typically charge uninsured people MORE than they charge insurance companies.) So where do Pelosi and the Dems get off claiming there is?
"The best healthcare in the world!"
If these Bozo's win, it will seem that way in hindsight.
Yes, that is the dirty little secret. I've had my own experience, too. There is no free ride, and that's why I think very, very, very hard before going to an ER.
Next time that happens to you, turn the tables on them. There's a loophole in HIPAA that allows you to get scotts free if you're patient with the process. Here's what I do:
1. Ignore the bill;
2. When it goes to collections (usually after 3 months), ask for validation per the FDCPA. Make it clear that you don't want a print-out of what the collection agency has in its records but the actual records that originated the alleged debt;
3. They'll suspend collection activity (by law);
4. They'll either leave you alone or provide you with copy of your medical records;
5. Either way, you win. If they provide you with the medical records, now, you have grounds to sue them for violation of your privacy.
I've got away with this since the law came out. Once, I had over $15,000 worth of medical bills. You just have to be persistant to the end and you will prevail. I guarantee it! Screw the bastards! They have to be beaten at their own game.
the most amazing part of this is as they sit in their mansions on high
where do they think we are going to get the money to pay for this?! these
freaks the only one of who isn't a millionaire is bernie sanders think
that we can just write a check just like that? i don't know about you
folks but things haven't been going so great the last few years. their
salary lifetime medical these people have delusions about the rest of
us.we have real bills most of us don't become millionaires through
on the job bribery like these monsters do. i will go to jail before paying
that tax!
Ain't it the truth! What you said.
How did Cindy Sheehan lose to this vile woman, Nancy Pelosi?
What's the Matter With Americans?
If they call an employer provided insurance plan pray tell what is a chevy plan?This is a play with words and they know that throwing out cadillac people will say "they must get all of it for free" which is far from the truth.I retired from the feds and belong to Kaiser and they have saved my life a couple of times;I drank for 40 plus years but now am cool and it is good insurance but to call it a cadillac plan is like saying you buy a chev on payments while you buy a cad with cash and feel no pain in the pocketbook.The word cadillac is being used as a tool to make people think that the ones with these plans are stealing money from them.If the unions fall for this shit and haven't already drawn a line in the sand then this piece of shit will probobly pass and everybody and I mean EVERYBODY who is not a millionare will get less than nothing not even a chevy plan.Tony
I guess the CEO Ferrari and Lamborghinni plans won't pay taxes because they "provide jobs" and "help retain top talent".
The Prius plans will be taxed because the electric part comes with a set of heart shock paddles. Such a luxury! We must tax, tax, tax. The wars have to be paid for you know.
As I reported in yesterday's Donna Smith Thread, many states are revolting over the bill. Here's an article about that, http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100108/us_time/08599195214700
Excerpt: "Around the capital, the special deal that Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson got to secure his vital, filibuster-breaking 60th vote for the health care bill is now known as the Cornhusker Kickback. Even as political favors go, it's a whopper: if reform passes, the Federal Government will pay all of Nebraska's new Medicaid costs forever. And it's fueling envy and outrage in the other 49 states. Led by South Carolina's Henry McMaster, the attorneys general of 13 states - 12 Republicans and one Democrat - have signed on to a letter contending the Nelson deal is unconstitutional."
As I mentioned yesterday, it lokks like the best way to defeat this Obamanation of legislation is to scream about the unfunded mandate aspects of it as it looks like the several states will not be able to afford them for a long time, if ever. It's pretty esaay to say: "Don't vote for this trash because its unfunded mandates will bankrupt our state. That's something Single Payer would never do."
karlof1
You are so right! And not taking that money is one of the few things our Gov. Goodhair here in Texas has done. I think the Gov. of Indiana refused it too. Our AG wrote that letter I believe and the cases he sites from the SCOTUS makes it pretty clear this is unconstitutional and is unlikely to stand a legal challange if these twits are stupid enoough to pass this travesty.
Single Payer solves all this and if they had simply proposed that, I think it would have passed.
chessgames56 January 8th, 2010 1:20 pm
pjd412 January 8th, 2010 1:57 pm
Bliss Doubt January 8th, 2010 12:32 pm
Put em together and they covered all the bases.
Wall Street is an 'exchange' so Rep. Waxman wants a Health Wall Street (HWS). Good luck sick people. Your health will be in the hands of HWS dealers.
The notion that everything in life must be controlled by 'markets' is sick to the core.
why are unions and their members against paying their "fair share" like the rest of us?
Unions and their members oppose paying their "fair share" because we traded away good salaries for the the security of the misnamed "Cadillac plans".
To tax these plans is another attack in the war on the working class. What is needed is to roll back the Reagan tax cuts.
And yes, I have advocated for years for a comprehensive (dental, vision, mental) single payer system, so that all will have a true "Cadillac plan" that treats health care as a human right.
There plenty of people outside of unions with these so-called Cadillac plans. My brother is a music director in a poor Catholic parish. If he were not being paid through the Diocese of Brooklyn there's no way this parish would have a music director. His plan includes medical, dental and vision, under Blue Cross-Blue Shield, but apparently it's in the process of being changed and he's pretty nervous about that. He actually got a small raise this year, but but really, because after they raised what he pays into the policy, it was a zero sum. And now his policy would be taxed above that?
What defines this as their fair share and not more than their fair share.
Why is the middle class continually suffering more taxes and the rich bloated continually getting tax cuts?
Because the middle class are the meat in the Capitalist sandwich while the rich and the poor are the bread and get their flavor from the middle.
theowl;It is doubtful that any kind of "living wages" would have been paid to workers without the unions back in 50's,60's and 70's and then union leaders started making sweetheart deals with companies and politicians and screwed their members into accepting less and less and the mob got in and since the mob and politicians are interchangable the unions lost more and more.How some have managed to hang on this long is surprising to me.Always was in the union;about 4 different ones and walked a few pickets.I dont see the logic of your comment;how would it help anyone if the assholes in dc tax the ones who fought and sometimes died for what they have and say it is to give others a chance to buy,using their anology,that would compare to yugo coverage?EVERYBODY loses except the assholes in that dc cesspool and their business asshole buddies.Tony
HOW do all of these politicians manage to get such wretchedly unflattering pictures taken of them?
I am sincerely wondering!
I enjoy the Pictures better than the articles, CD captures the essence of these once human beings.
Because the camera captures what's inside of them which cannot be seen with the naked eye.
This is great.
The Republicans, who never saw a regressive tax they didn't like, get a chance to vote AGAINST one because they know the Democrats will pass it. Then, they can go out and campaign against the Demos from the right AND the left, depending on the issue.
The Democrats will be slaughtered in 2010. Get ready for Petreus in 2012.
one can only hope
Can only hope what?
shouldn't the legislative be encouraging excellent health care plans instead of punishing those who have them?
If we can't have a public option or universal medicare (or at least until we get it) wouldn't the wise thing to do be to reward employers who give excellent health care to their employees?
Shouldn't the tax be on those who refuse to give health care so that the government gets money to help subsidize the health care of those who don't have it or have lousy coverage? Instead we are going to punish those who can't afford it or who have good care.
This whole debate, from the beginning, could not have been imagined better in Through the Looking Glass. Beware of the Jabberwock! All mimsy were the borogrobes!
Off with her head! (said nancy as she stroked her pearls and Bill the lizard scuttled away)
bobv 7:38 ----- you expect the rational? How delightful !!
yeah I know... you'd think I'd get it by now.
Some kind of cosmic mind warp or another I guess.
Somehow, you seem to be under the impression that this is about helping the people. Ha ha!
If we can get the Kucinich Amendment enabling state level single payer systems into the final bill, we can start to fix these problems at the state level ...
The Vermont legislature has announced a plan to develop single payer health insurance to cover all residents. I hope it works. It would be a fine model for other states to imitate.
"Don't buy into that," Pelosi told the caucus, according to a person on the call, then added, emphasizing each word: "Not true for a second."
1-2--3-4--5--6--7-8-9-10...
There. I'm really, really calm now. I am not upset. I will not scream.
Data, Attach the mind translator please:
"Don't believe anything I say," Pelosi told the caucus, according to a person on the call, then added, emphasizing each word: "Not a word."
The mind translator is in fine form today.
Exactly, her lips are moving.
Who are the "stakeholders" in health care? Why the insurance companies and medical corporations, of course. Maybe, THAT'S why this debate is f--ked up.
"'Congress and the White House keep calling the medical industry corporations ‘the stakeholders’ in this reform process,' said Dr. Margaret Flowers of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP)."
We, the people, are incidental to their pursuit of profits.
See (under the Progressive Newswire column):
"Physicians for a National Health Program: As Probation Ends for 'Baucus 8,' Group Vows to Press for Single-Payer Health Reform"
Neither the senate or house bill is much good, but the senate bill is full of it and just plain and simple a gift to the health insurance industry and its big time pimps leveraging their ownership of the big whorehouse known as the US Congress along with that of the White House, another big whore house where pimps have one failed Irishman pretending to be black. Where's his soul? Forget about his birth certificate,
AD
The Cadillac...ROFL! Well, I think we all know where Cadillacs are right now.
I'd hate to see what that "surtax on the wealthy" is like. By corporate government standards, that'll probably be a family of 4 with an income of $50,000 a year or less.