Democrats in Washington Want To Keep Impeachment Off The Table
WASHINGTON - The push to impeach President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney is gaining a hearing in some parts of the country, but not in Washington.
More than 70 cities and 14 state Democratic parties have urged impeachment or investigations that could lead to impeachment. The most common charge is that Bush manipulated intelligence to lead the country into the Iraq war. Other charges include spying on Americans and torturing suspected terrorists in violation of U.S. and international law.
Most recently, the Massachusetts Democratic Party voted to push impeachment of both men. The 2,500 state convention delegates voted almost unanimously against Cheney; the vote against Bush was closer.
Massachusetts’ Democratic Party thus joined 13 others on the investigate-or-impeach bandwagon, including: Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin.
Among the cities and towns, the largest and most recent is Detroit, where the city council voted 7-0 this month to urge Congress to impeach Bush and Cheney for “intentionally misleading Congress and the public regarding the threat from Iraq in order to justify the war.”
“There’s a lot growing in support,” said Tim Carpenter, the director of the liberal group Progressive Democrats of America. “Whether Congress will respond, that’s another question.”
Indeed. The Democrats who run Congress have no interest in impeaching Bush or Cheney, despite pressure from their party’s base outside the Beltway.
It’s noteworthy that impeachment pressure is coming from the home states of the two Democratic leaders in Congress, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada.
Pelosi said last year that impeachment “is off the table.” Under the Constitution, the House impeaches; the Senate then decides whether to convict and remove from office.
It’s also interesting that one of the resolutions came from Detroit, home to Rep. John Conyers, who as the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee would lead any impeachment hearings.
The Detroit resolution was co-authored by Monica Conyers, the congressman’s wife. But she hasn’t had any noticeable clout at home: Conyers said last year that he wasn’t interested in impeachment - just oversight investigations - and he hasn’t changed his stand.
There are both policy and political reasons that Democratic leaders are risking the anger of their base.
One is that some don’t see an impeachable offense in what Bush has done, what the Constitution calls “high crimes and misdemeanors.” They might find such evidence in any of the many congressional investigations, but they haven’t yet.
Another is that they fear a political backlash from voters similar to the one that punished Republicans after they impeached Bill Clinton. One factor on the side of the pro-impeachment crowd: Clinton was much more popular than Bush.
The third is that they’re eager to keep Bush and Cheney around as punching bags for Democratic candidates in the 2008 campaign.
“The political lens they’re looking through is the 2008 election,” Carpenter said. “They want to see Bush and Cheney dangling so the election is a referendum on them. That is not the correct lens.”
To him, the right lens is the last election, when voters threw the Republicans out of power in Congress. Those people, he said, now want Bush and Cheney out.
“There is a groundswell here,” Carpenter said. “Pelosi says it’s off the table. It’s our role to put it on the table.”
© 2007 McClatchy Newspapers
So Dubya can kill people via a war that should have never happened, lie to the American public over and over again, and the Democrats aren’t budging on impeachment even though there is growing support to put Bush and Cheney in their place.
And Bill Clinton gets head from an intern and DOES get impeached.
LIES, WAR, INNOCENT DEATH, ENVIRONMENTAL FIASCO, KOWTOWING TO CORPORATE INTERESTS, BIG OIL, WAR HAWKS = Bush OK
FELLATIO = Clinton not OK
Bush = brain-dead, alcoholic, coke-head rich kid who can barely speak the English language
Clinton = articulate, educated Rhodes scholar with genuine charisma
Can the American people please get a grip. As usual, this makes absolutely no sense in any way. People really need to get their priorities straight.
The Democrats are dead. They lack clout, courage, and interest. Further, they exhibit no interest in or compassion for the people who elected them expecting action and change. I can only assume that this is the result of the powers of Bush, who obviously cannot be defeated, and who can and will freely and fearlessly name an heir to his office in 2008. I suspect congress, too, wil revert to the republicans. In the current environment, my vote is a waste of time and energy.
As a young man I gave a lot of thought to the question: “how did Germany, with an educated public by the standards of the day, allow itself to slip into a fascist State? Not only a fascist state but one bent on genocide”. Unfortunately I have the answer as I watch the United States beg to go there consumed with hate and fear mixed with apathy.
Cindy Sheehan is right about the Democrats and their virulent supporters. We need to move beyond the two-party shellgame.
We need an immediate regime change here at home. I walked in the voting booth with impeachment in my heart and I was not alone. Apparently, the Democratic Party, just like their Republican counterparts, does not want to acknowledge the will of the people.
Impeach, now!
It sort of looks like the Dems are doing what we accuse the Repubs of doing - putting politics above the good of the country. Pelosi et al want Bushco around for the 08 election, but the question is can this country stand 18 months more of Bush - and can the world?! Impeach Bush!
If Congress doesn’t impeach Bush and Cheney I’m afraid we’re headed down the slippy-slidey road to a dictatorship. With his signing statements, his illegal spying, his illegal torture, his violation of the most basic principles of justice including habeas corpus, George Bush hasn’t just put a toe over the line, he’s erased it.
Bush and Company clearly believe not that they are above the law but that they ARE the law.
Unfortunately, far from fighting this power grab, the Congress is aiding and abetting it, especially with the Military Commissions Act which gives der President the power to declare any of us “illegal combatants” and strip us of our most fundamental human rights.
The Democrats are in power, yet on this as on so many other issues, they are unwilling to confront our criminal president. I can only conclude that they are waiting their turn. Apparently Pelosi, Clintons, Reid, Obama, and the rest of the Democratic Party leadership believe that dictatorship is just fine as long as they are the dictators.
Starting to look like the Democrats in DC were selected “from above” to come there, rather than sent “from below” by their constituents. Look at who they’re serving, who they’re protecting, versus who they ignore. A two-party system would be a “luxury” at this point.
Might be past-time to make sure that the primary voting systems don’t have an awful lot of monkeybusiness about them. If such is the case, it may well be that the very concept of voting is the problem — designed to stifle, rather than facilite, popular will.
I can’t believe I am writing this, as opposed to just thinking it - as I have been for quite some time - but I am more than prepared to utilize my vote AGAINST the Democratic Party, simply to prove a point. That doesn’t mean I will vote Green, or any other party as an alternative to the Dems. What it means is that I am - at this point - leaning toward voting for the most viable Republican candidate! Why? Because perhaps what America needs is another Republican. It took Bush Jr. to screw up this country enough to finally get the majority of the people behind real change, but that wasn’t enough to convince the crusaders of mediocrity who are running for the presidency!
Maybe if we actually threaten to vote for their opposition, and follow through with that vote if they do not shape up and answer our call, the consequences will cause the country to enter a state of chaos, exactly what it will take for the tyrannical right wing machine to finally be beaten.
I, for one, am so sick and tired of the gutless sycophants who no longer understand what America stands for, that I am willing to use my vote in a virtually terrorist sort of way, threatening to vote in a certain way to elicit the proper reaction from our would-be leaders.
Dear Rep. Pelosi and Sen. Reid,
IT’S THE CONSTITUTION, STUPID!
Sincerely,
ExDem (and there are more and more of us every minute)
The difference is the media. The media is not critical enough to get Congress scrambling.
When the soap-operalike saga of Clinton and the stain in the blue dress came out, the media were ALL OVER it.
I’ve voted for a Democrat for many years. No more. I’ll never vote for any of those chicken-shit bastards again.
I’m lining up now to impeach the dems in 2008!
Have ya’ll forgotten the House seat is only for 2 years? A new political party is a non starter, warning Pelosi, and the corporate Dems they will be voted out is out best option.I have put Ms Pelosi on notice of this 4x, and will do so more each time she votes against our wishes.I encourage all to write the Dems, and remind them we can vote you out, and we WILL, if you continue to ignore us.They are our representatives, not the corporations.It is better to find candidates that will vote for US, not for the Corps, and vote the traitors to our votes for them, why their terms are only 2 years.Write your Dem leadership , and representative if you have one that is voting against your wishes, and put them on notice, and keep reminding them.Meanwhile we need to find people dedicated to us, and have then run for Congress for us.Do it today!
The bizarre behavior of Democractic legislators could be explained by 2 possible facts:
1) They are hypocrites… which I personally do not believe.
2) The Republicans are using techniques of coercion and blackmail to pressure their votes.
Let’s not forget Watergate and what it was about… wiretapping, spying, gathering information to slander and blackmail (and some of that in Iran-Contra, too). We all know Bush is worse than Nixon, and not very imaginative, and technology is light years beyond what it was 30-35 years ago.
How else do we have Fake Elections, certain politicians who flip to the opposite ideologically, and Democratic legislators who keep approving blatantly anti-democratic Privatization bills which are destroying our democracy by chopping up the national commonwealth and handing it over to oligarchs?
Telecommunications are increasingly under the monopoly control of right-wing corporations who are either pro-Bush, or were pro-Bush until they decided they didn’t like his image any more… but their ideology and mode are still the same (AT&T then and now, HQ now in Texas)
It is very likely that nearly all communications among politicians are being monitored and used by the Republican Party to use by their well-funded propaganda machine not only to push lies in the media, but also monitor, warp, and intervene in any communication they choose.
If this sounds outrageous, look in to who gets government telecommunications contracts and how much privatization has left publicly-elected officials out of the power to control or monitor government communications.
He who owns and controls the phone lines or internet connections (even airwaves, which can be easily monitored with the appropriate radio equipment) has access to all information, and the capacity to sabotage agreements, gather personal information to embarrass, humiliate, or coerce.
We may be dealing with a 21st century Watergate on a much more sophisticated level.
Plus psychological warfare that includes not only Christian Fascist demagogues, but also high-pressure lobbyists and corporate spies in the employ of the Republican Party who are skilled at getting what they want by hook or by crook.
I suspect impeachment isn’t really off of the table, just off of the table for now. If you’re an incumbent democrat, you’re looking at some pretty grim prospects right now.
The last 6 years have left a shambles in both the domestic and international policy arenas. Now that the dems have assumed majority, they have been handed a proverbial 10 pounds of monkeypoo in a 5 pound bag. For many of the problems that they are facing, there is no easy solution.
It is my suspicion that impeachment is still on the table — you can’t just rush into something though, declaring your intention to find the subject of your investigation to be guilty. Imagine a police detective declaring that a suspect was guilty and that he would now build a case around available evidence - it would be entirely improper and counterproductive to that effort.
Gonzalez is the key. They need to have the support of the justice department I think. Under Nixon, the functioning of the justice depaartment was a lot healthier than it is now. I suspect that it is not coincidence that they seem to be circling around Gonzalez and that he’s been so committed to staying in spite the seeming potlitical advantage for the white house to be gained by his departure.
Additionally, I think the dems are planning on making impeachment an issue for the 2008 election cycle which is still (sort of) far off on the horizon. Make an issue of it now and the public will be so sick of hearing about it - beyond the legal and ethical obligations to uphold the constitution, why play your hole card so early in the game.
Its also worth remembering that many of the things that the dems need to do to get us back on track are directly contrary to the interests of their corporate paymasters - people who’s support is a virtual requirement for them to keep their jobs come next election. Its not like they are all that much different than their colleagues across the isle. Bill Clinton was a republican in a donkey costume. Both parties serve at the pleasure of hyperglobalmegacorp, two heads of the same menacing hydra.
Let’s also not forget the Baby Limbaughts who log in to liberal blogs and make strategic comments they think will demoralize the ‘opposition’.
An old old trick in psychological warfare.
‘Impeach the dems’…Sounds like Rush Hawhaw or one of his mercenaries.
Given the Democratic complicity in continuing the war, the recent drive by both parties to turn to the “alternative” fuel, coal, instead of finding a sensible (survivable!) energy policy, the policies to protect pharmaceutical companies from the fallout of the harm they’ve done in shooting mercury into our children…I think we should put impeachment on the table for ALL of them, top to bottom.
dafairley said:
Read this to know how close we really are to a dictatorship:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
Bush will likely provoke an “attack” from Iran, which will give him an ecuse to respond “in kind”, and in the ensuing chaos here and abroad declare martial law.
Do not vote Democrat in 2008!
I’m probably working and donating and voting Green. But pick any decent honest party (ie, not Democrat or Republican), and help them out! And what we really should do is to combine some of those campaigns to get one clear alternative on the ballot to Corporate Party A (ie Republicans) and Corporate Party B (ie Democrats).
But, unless you just really love the government we have to day with a President acting unconstitutionally and bipartisan support for more and more war, DO NOT VOTE DEMOCRAT IN 2008!
It’s as simple as this folks. Bush used his illegal wiretaps to spy on the Democratic leadership. There is absolutely no other reason why he would not have gotten approval through the FISA courtss.
Just like he used the CIA to send a warning to the democrats after 9-11 in the form of anthrax powder. Gee, isn’t it interesting people stopped talking about that awful fast and no one was ever found to be responsible?
The Democratic leadership, like Democratic voters, have been caged.
They understand if any of them seriously try to Impeach anyone in the Bush administration…someone close to them will die.
You think this is some kind of game people?
BTW, the answer is that the Democrats are hypocrites. This is by design with the way their party has been structured and organized since the late 1980’s.
Somewhere around 1988 to 1990, the Democrats decided to abandon their old New Deal coalition. Instead, they started to suck up to big money just like the Republicans. Nowadays, the party is beholden to the same big money interests. Maybe they vary just a bit, with the oil industry on the Republican side and the trial lawyers on the Democratic side. But basically both parties are entirely concerned only with people or groups who can give them large amounts of money.
Both parties are then hypocrites in what they say. Both basically lie to voters about what they will do in office. The Republicans lie to the social conservatives, pledging support for causes they know they’ll never implement. And the Democrats are the same. They still need that old New Deal coalition to keep voting for them. But the leadership of the party clearly does not support the issues that these voters support.
This has been true for awhile, certainly during the Clinton years. Bill Clinton’s real skill was that he could talk like a lefty while governing for Wall Street. This was clear immediately after the election, when all of his pledges to help people and “its the economy stupid” went out the window the day after the election in favor of what Wall Street and Rubin told him to do. Thus we got the first ‘jobless recovery’. And we got NAFTA, Welfare Reform, WTO, war in Yugoslavia, logging riders, etc, etc, etc.
So, the answer is “Yes, the Democrats are hypocrites”. They have no intention of listening to their base, or doing anything that benefits their base beyond the bare minimum they need to do to keep the idiots who don’t know better voting them back into office.
Everything you’ve seen in the last few months about Iraq has been hypocritical. Remember, both Reid and Pelosi promised in the national corporate media on the day after the last election that they would make sure Bush’s war funding was not cut or limited in any way. Everything since has been theater just to fool voters into thinking they really opposed the war when they had already pledged full support. If its not hypocritical to be taking phony votes they knew wouldn’t mean anything to pretend to oppose the war, while all the time working to fulfill their pledge to fully fund the war, I don’t know what is.
It would be funny if people weren’t dying because of this. Like their failure to ‘protect and defend the Constitution of the US’ would be funny if it wasn’t our rights and freedoms being given away by all of this.
” They fear political backlash from voters similar to the
one that punished Republicans after they impeached Bill Clinton”. Come again? Hey Mr.Thomma, you may wanna check your facts befor you present yourself as some sort of political wonk.The Republicans actually GAINED seats in Congress after they impeached Clinton. History actually tells us that there is no backlash when providing constitutional oversight. They gained seats with a purely partisan witch hunt, imagine the response when violations of the constitution ( Supported by 76% of the country)are legally addressed using constitutional provisions that are provided . Check hike?
Frigging pols!
Buy new, only what you must.
Buy local produce to support Americans in your community.
Buy from small American owned businesses only.
Buy used and vintage items from other Americans through yard sales, ebay, and auctions.
Recycle everything you can.
Burn as little fuel as possible.
The only way
Buy new, only what you must.
Buy local produce to support Americans in your community.
Buy from small American owned businesses only.
Buy used and vintage items from other Americans through yard sales, ebay, and auctions.
Recycle everything you can.
Burn as little fuel as possible.
The only way
I can’t blame Cindy Sheehan one iota as I am also disgusted with the Democratic party as well for caving in to Bush and his family of thieves.
It’s OK to institute impeachment proceeding against a President who had a fling with a consenting intern of legal age yet not against Bush and Cheney and their ilk who are responsibles for the deaths of thousands of our own Military not to mention the innocent Iraqi’s.
Where in the Hell is the justice here? If nothing else, they should be tried before a World Court in the Hague and be forced to answer for their crimes against the human race.
Bush and his band are no much better than the Nazi’s of WW2 who stood trial in Nuremberg and
were held accountable for their acts and the same thing should apply to these lying law breakers.
Good points DeFairley, Restore Democracy & CO marc… can’t you hear Marvin Gaye singing, “What’s Going On?”…
Here’s the hypocrisy:
- NAFTA, Welfare Reform, WTO, war in Yugoslavia were started under George Bush I and left for Bill Clinton to grapple with. - Eisenhower started the Indochina war covertly and then left Kennedy to take the blame and deal with the mess.
- CIA Republicans made the deal to keep the hostages in Iran and then blame Carter - Numerous proactive bills were passed during the Reagan disaster and left for Democrats to spend all their energy counterbalancing later on - The Republicans are doing everything they can, once again, to disillusion Democratic voters, split the vote, and pave the way for more Republican political victories.
- The Green Party in some countries has turned into a party of pro-corporates in environmentalist clothing… as in Germany, and increasingly more here. The California Green Party is even staffed with former Nazis at its helm - there’s where you need to look for hypocrites.
- Republicans are campaigning to get Democrats to vote Green because when the elections come around, it keeps Republicans voting for one candidate, and Democrats splintered to lose. This is how Schwazinazi stole California, how Gore lost, and how Nixon won.
And you know it, CIAMarc.
Who says the Dems are not an effective opposition party and that they won’t fight hard?
They’ve been opposing and fighting their own state officeholders who are trying to put impeachment back on the table.
They fight Ralph Nader.
They fight Cindy Sheehan.
They fight the Green Party.
They fight the people who elected them to office.
Too bad they they don’t fight the Damn Republicans with as much dedication and singleness of purpose.
Once again COMarc is correct. The Dems are a bunch of hypocrites.
Never has a political party been handed so much ammunition by the other party. Now watch the Dems shoot themselves in the foot with it!
Another ex-Democrat
no matter what happens, bush walks. so does cheney and all the rest of the privaleged. pardons all around.
Impeach Cheney! Impeach Bush!
The ‘leadership’ of the Democratic Party is only interested in perpetuating the objectives of the incumbents’ major donors rather than those of the majority of the incumbents’ supporting voters’. Unfortunately, the biggest donors to incumbent Democrats are likely to also be big (perhaps,bigger) donors to the Republican Party candidates. Such a hypothetical situation is consistent with the current situation in which Pelosi has put impeachment off the table. Thus, the competition is all about egos/objectives of the incumbent Democrats, rather than about what is good for America. Before anything positive can happen, a viable third party will have to come into existence in the USA. It appears irrational to pretend that there is a significant difference between the two current major political parties.
In analyzing the various comments:
‘Democrat Party’ is what Republicans and Republicans-in-disguise call the Democratic Party.
‘Lefty’ is a typical Republican jargon.
Read between the lines.
One of the main objectives of the 2008 Republican election agenda is to get Democrats to vote for the Green Party and split the vote for Republican victory.
Read your American history, and from something besides a corporate-produced and edited textbook.
FACT: A Green Party presidential candidate WILL NOT WIN an election 1 year from now.
FACT: A Green Party candidate will suck votes away from the Democratic Party just like it did when our country was stolen from President Gore’s leadership.
FACT: A vote for a Green in the upcoming elections is the same as a vote for the Republican Party.
Get Real, and don’t listen to the Hawhaw hucksters planted to divide and conquer.
As for having now where else to go: We can always go to our polling place and vote Green or Libertarioan or Socilist or Populist in order to break the duopoly or we could just go fishing, with the same end in mind.
The Democratic leadership remembers what happened to the Kennedys, Martin Luther King, Mel Carnahan, Paul Wellstone and others.
Half of the D’s leadership are complicit, the other half are silenced.
www.oilempire.us/jfk.html
www.prouty.org
www.theassassinations.com
THE ASSASSINATIONS
Probe Magazine on JFK, MLK, RFK and Malcolm X
Edited by James DiEugenio and Lisa Pease
“The cumulative effect of these assassinations is quite clear. They resulted in the death of the old Democratic Party and the birth of the new Jimmy Carter-Bill Clinton-Al Gore Democratic Party. ….
“Imagine if you can, that if in the mid-1980s, at the height of the GOP Revolution, Ronald Reagan, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich, and George Bush Sr., had all been assassinated in the space of five years. Would the Republicans and the media not suspect something more than coincidence or happenstance? Would their party and their causes be able to sustain the loss? Would Dan Quayle and Bob Dole have been able to pick up the baton? Would history not have been quite different? Certainly, the Democrats were not able to sustain the loss. Nothing comparable filled the gap, nothing even came close. So the constellation fell from the sky and without any pressure from the left, our public debate shifted slowly, inexorably to the right.”
– p. 635, 638
I think this shows how utterly confused Democrat politicians are about the current situation, either that, or they are all cynics. It could be argued that with the current balance of power impeachment is unlikely, but I would say that we’re talking more of cowardice and lack of vision. If one cannot make a convincing case for impeachment with the lies and distortion so far, I don’t know what will. We need leaders, not jaded political players.
There is a way to expand the support for impeachment and pressure the Democratic leadership at the same time. Demand that the Democrats in Congress not give one more dime for the war until we find out the truth about how the Bush administration lied us into the war. Practically speaking, this means expanding and deepening the investigations into their lies about Iraq and Al Queda, and weapons of mass destruction; and making these investigations the number one priority for Congressional oversight. Issue subpoenas for testimony and documents; and don’t give them any more money for the war unless they comply. Their lies have killed hundreds of thousands; and their refusal to tell the truth now will make them responsible when the troops aren’t funded. A poll more than a year ago showed that a majority of voters would support impeachment if it were proved that Bush lied about the reasons the U.S. invaded Iraq. Just demanding impeachment in the face of this cowardice on the part of the leadership will not get us very far. We need a strategic approach that will help create public opinion in favor of impeachment hearings. It is time to stop simply complaining about their cowardice. Make them face a demand for a course of action that they have said they will do! And these should be televised hearings, under oath - subpoena Bush and Cheney. This is a strategic demand on the Democrats that can be backed up by local resolutions, by city councils, state legislatures; and hopefully by civil disobedience in Congresspeople’s offices. This should not be in place of continued organizing to cut off funding to the war and for impeachment; but be seen as a way to bridge the two.
There are sound reasons not to seek to remove the most dysfunctional president in history via the most dysfunctional clause in the Constitution. The task of Congress at this moment in history is to end the war in Iraq and redress the innumerable assaults on the Constitution under this administration. The word “impeachment” has an almost magical ring to it, but it is a cumbersome process that may show the door to the president and vice-president, but will not do anything at all to undo their handiwork. Impeachment proceedings customarily begin in the House Judiciary Committee, and while procedures are far more free-wheeling than those in a federal court, the necessary focus will always be on just two men — and not the nature and extent of each harm and how to address it.
So you think Congress can do both, hmmm? Think again. An attempted impeachment of a president (it works pretty well against federal judges) will drive all partisans to their home corners. The Republicans we need to build coalitions to act against this war will not lightly do so in the midst of impeachment-related hearings and investigations.
And please stop referring to impeachment as if it were the only response of an alarmed citizenry to a despotic president. Congress has many tools — separate tools for separate ills — and should surely have more courage in using them. (Hooray for my state’s delegation, all of whom voted against the war supplemental.) But the chief beneficiary of impeachment proceedings would be the planners of the Bush revolution and the enablers of this war. Find your issue — the war, habeas corpus, the NSA eavesdropping, the politicization of the Justice Department, the campaign to keep people of color from the polls — and get to work on it. It will be hard, frustrating, time-consuming work.
Or you can go with impeachment — it feels so good; it will do so little.
The Impeachment Clause was based on English law and practice at a time when Parliament had too few tools to use against a head-strong monarch. As Parliament gained in strength, impeachment declined. There has not been one in the United Kingdom since 1806. If I thought for a moment that impeachment would restore the Constitution and repair the Republic, my name would be at the top of the petition. It will not bring us out of the mess we are in. Only hard work and organization, issue-by-issue will do that.
Are you ready?
Note to Restore Democray: The republicans don’t need to try too hard to demoralize and demotivate Democratic voters. The Democrats are doing a great job of that all by themselves.r
The Green Party should maybe be courting Gore to run. Not that Gore is perfect, but he’s apparently got 44% of Americans supporting his candidacy–and he could run almost exclusively on the global-warming issue. It would therefore be a good way to make a third party viable. (Unfortunately, Gore has a loyalty problem–in his case, TOO loyal to the Democrats.)
Okay, maybe I’m naive but I actually just received an email from a friend who is frantically contacting everyone she knows about a sudden new phone tally being recorded at none other than Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office. Apparently the House Dem leadership is taking phone calls to see if there is enough outrage and interest by the public to IMPEACH BOTH BUSH AND CHENEY. It could be nothing…then again, it could be the beginning. I’m one of the loudest complainers about the wimpy congressional Dems but I’m going to try it anyway. At this point, anything’s worth a try. Here’s the phone number that was sent to me. Speaker Pelosi’s office: 202-225-0100
Well, it really is her office number. I couldn’t get through because her inbox is filled!!!!! I couldn’t even leave a message. I’ll try later. Hope everyone else does too. Spread the word.
You Democrats in Congress are destroying the party and millions of the party faithful will not vote Democratic in 2008. We voted you to power in 2006 and you have done NOTHING! Where’s the candidate who can declare that he/she will push for repeal of the Patriot Act? We have a bunch of gutless sheep in Washington. We have NO one with courage to set America back on it’s traditional moral grounds in the face of this fascist movement. Where are the Jeffersons, Paines, Adams and Franklins of today? Wake up and IMPEACH, that is after we get Pelosi to step down. Her, we don’t need to be next in line.
RestoreDemocracy is quite right. I greatly question the authenticity (not to mention intelligence) of some of the people here who are suggesting that one way or another we hand the presidency to the repugnicians. We cannot have another gop president in the white house; there are huge differences between the platforms of the democratic party and the gop. But honest people here will be able to see that, and they will make sure that the gop does not take the white house in 2008.
The high crimes and misdeamenors of Bush and Cheney meet the criteria for impeachment and removal from office. it seems to me that by not impeaching them, the consitutional guarantees of equal protection under the law would permit any liar, swindler and serial murderer to go free.
This should make it clear to everyone how worthless most of them are. They have no business in positions of government leadership. They’re a bunch of MISLEADERS.
(another voice from the ‘rat race choir’). how is it that an administration who is responsible for an illegal war, violating the constitution and for torturing people not brought to justice? why are the democrats not trying to cripple this administration? are they all shopping and redecorating? it must be a bubble thing. they live in a world of financing elections and go to the same parties or something. I’ve given up on ‘em except for a handful like my rep Barbara Lee.
Republican=Nutzoid
Democrat=Nutless
They finally reached across the aisle. As they say up nort an down south: Ow you like dat?
i know they must watch tv news. that must be the problem. and they’re so freakin nice! where are the men and woman with some guts, like the ones who took the beach on DDay!
Both parties stink. But by the lights of any reasonable person, one stinks a LOT more than the other.
If you don’t vote for the Dem, the Republicans will win.
Hello prayer in school. Good bye reproductive rights. Good bye the teaching of evolution. HELL NO.
I’d also really like to know: just how were the Dems supposed to get around the fact that they could not hope to muster the votes to impeach Bush, and that the attempt to do so would burn political capital and take time from things that perhaps COULD be accomplished? Did you want them to keep fighting a battle they could not win? Did you want to have the odious Mr. Lieberman OFFICIALLY join the GOP caucus?
I WOULD, however, like to know why Congress has not restored habeas corpus.
I am actually surprised it took Cindy Sheehan so long to make this decision. I thought it would happen when Hillary Clinton treated her like something stuck on the bottom of her designer shoe, but she still managed to hang in there while the rest of the Democrats figured out new and creative ways to allow more young men and women to share her son Casey’s fate.
My hope is that now that Sheehan is no longer affiliated with the decomposing Democratic party, she will say some of the things she couldn’t say before.
The only reasons the Dems could possibly reject impeachment and removal are: (1) their complicity in the overwhelming evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors on the part of the Bush/Cheney Administration; and (2)the fear of the frontrunners for the Democratic nomination in 2008 of having Nancy Pelosi as an incumbent President in 2007 and 2008.
Because of the lawlessness of the Administration there is no way to get us out of Iraq expeditiously except for impeachment/removal. Bush/Cheney won’t budge. Impeachment/Removal places Bush/Cheney on the defensive. Anna Nicole diversions and traitor baiting by Republicans would be subordinate to the gripping, uninterrupted story of cronyism, obstruction of justice, misuse of the war power, lying us into the war, no-bid contracts, etc. as the Dems get the bully pulpit to prosecute well-drafted Articles of Impeachment.
The Dems look like cowering, visionless wimps right now, and if this goes on for the next 18 months the Republicans will hold their own in Congress and possibly win the Presidency. Impeachment/removal provides a vehicle to fully expose Bush/Cheney and the equally telling story of the Republican Congress that supported all of these high crimes and misdemeanors.
The failure to vigorously and aggressively move impeachment/removal of Bush and Cheney simply means the Dems are not opposed to the actions of the Bush Administration. It’s the only explanation.
- iolellity
I think your assertion is a bit ignorant if you don’t mind my saying so. A platform guarantees nothing. It is merely a collective campaign promise and about as likely to be adhered to as long as corporations are allowed to financially dominate politics. Actions speak louder than words.
Elections like the constitution have become relatively meaningless. If you’re afraid the republicans will win the presidency - don’t be. Our next president has already been selected for us and will be Hillary Clinton. She will help to fix a few of our less meaningful problems caused by the republicans while continueing to stab us all in the back.
No doubt you will be happy to have someone in the white house who will put a more democratic facade on the treasonous actions of our collective misleaders. I for one see no alternatives that will put our nation back on track except for:
A) A long bloody revolution to restore the constitution and put a legitimate and responsive government into power..
B) An article V convention call that removes corporate money from politics altogether (at the very least).
Please consider joining us at foavc.org - Friends of the Article V convention. Many of us are republicans (not me) many of us are democrats ( not me again). Personally I am an independant though very liberal and progressive leaning. I would also rather embrace and band together with honest enemies rather than lying backstabbing friends.
After snooty reactions from state political leaders when presented with 11,000 signatures supporting impeachment and request that the state legislature pass a resolution to introduce articles of impeachment at the federal level, we have decided to introduce our own anti-terrorism legislation aimed at all those pols who by doing nothing [or actively working against the constitution] but fiddling while Rome burns are doing more to foment terrorism here and abroad than any Afghan hiding in the hills. Afraid for the Republic, me thinks the time for a tea party is perilously near at hand.
iolellity writes, a few posts above this one, “I greatly question the authenticity (not to mention intelligence) of some of the people here who are suggesting that one way or another we hand the presidency to the repugnicians. We cannot have another gop president in the white house; there are huge differences between the platforms of the democratic party and the gop.”
- I challenge iolellity to spell out some of these alleged “huge differences.” Do any of the Democrats’ platform planks call specifically for ending the Iraq war? For cutting Pentagon spending? For exposing the fraud of the “War on Terror”? For ending US concentration camps and US torture of its detainees? For restoring habeas corpus? For putting Bush & Cheney & all their minions before a war-crimes tribunal? For repealing the Bush tax-cuts for the rich? For repealing the PATRIOT Act? For prosecuting Bush-Cheney for spying on the phone calls & emails of American citizens? For outlawing the Bush Doctrine of “pre-emptive war”? For opposing the trend towards ever-greater media concentration?
Of course not!! The Democrats HELPED the Republicans enact all those measures. There’s not one bit of it, in which the Dems were not complicit. They even let the Republicans stack the Supreme Court with extreme rightwingers who belong to the Federalist Society & support the theory of the “unitary executive” — in itself, another assault on the Constitution.
The only difference between the two parties is cosmetic & superficial, and has more to do with the particular bases they need to appeal to, to get votes. For instance, the Democrats can’t win without support from labor & African Americans. So they devise some rhetoric that’s more pleasing to those groups’ ears (before betraying them at the earliest opportunity). That’s the only difference between the parties.
Democrats need to be accountable to their constituencies, the majority of which are calling for impeachment of Bush AND Cheney - or they will find their constituencies vanishing. I am ashamed of my party for not having the courage to support this issue, save for a few patriots in Washington - Clinton had a zipper problem, and got impeached for it - Bush is screwing America and the Middle East and no one does a thing. I’m disgusted.
I can understand that Pelosi and the rest of the “leadership” want to use Bush & Co. to beat up on in the next election, but what they are not acknowledging is that there might not BE a next election if they aren’t kicked out now. DaveG pointed out what is in the offing, but it bears repeating.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
Then there is the problem of voter suppression, voting machine manipulation, and other campaign dirty tricks. Because of the slim Democratic majority in the Senate (actually a republican majority when you think about Lieberman), Bush and Cheney will never be convicted, but at least they need to be twisting in such hot water that they don’t have time to engage in other nasty tricks. I just hope that the observation made above that impeachment may be waiting on more investigations is true. Maybe investigations will make it so blatantly obvious that Bush and Cheney are traitors to the country that all but the religious right will realize that impeachment is the only way out.
TWISTY MAY You have it right on.
- “they fear a political backlash from voters similar to the one that punished Republicans after they impeached Bill Clinton” -
They need to begin to fear us right now. If the Dems to not put impeachment on the table they will be out of office after their next election.
Pelosi is all talk and no action. We gave her a chance to prove herself and she turned her back on us. Speaker Pelosi, I no longer have confidence in you.
Keep the momentum going, support your local Bush/Cheney impeachment organization, just $20 a month. Keep sending emails to your representatives until they blacklist your address, then start writing letters.
And one last thing, it is time to take a serious look at term limits for congress.
“We The People” need to start a Third Party now:
THE PEOPLE’S PARTY!
Anyone out there with the skills to set up an online petition?
Not impeaching war criminals is making members of congress accessories after the fact. I can’t vote for accessories to war crimes of any party.
Well, what to say? As a recent x-democrat, I can only hope for a viable third party. At this point even a non-viable third party will probably get my vote in 2008 just as an exercise in the historic feel of voting.
I really didn’t expect miracles from a Democratic majority, but I didn’t expect such craven acquiescence either. Impeachment off the table? No forced withdrawal? Someone tell what difference it has made to have the Dems in office.
Greens are not trying to “divide and conquer”. Dems did it all by themselves. They’ve taken us for granted too many times and are still doing it. Who can settle for corporate Repug lite? Can corporate government be fascism lite?
The PDA and any progressives left in the Dems might consider gathering around the real progressive party, the Greens, and claiming the power to control the corporate parties before its too late.
“I challenge iolellity to spell out some of these alleged “huge differences.” Do any of the Democrats’ platform planks call specifically for ending the Iraq war? For cutting Pentagon spending? For exposing the fraud of the “War on Terror”? For ending US concentration camps and US torture of its detainees? For restoring habeas corpus? For putting Bush & Cheney & all their minions before a war-crimes tribunal? For repealing the Bush tax-cuts for the rich? For repealing the PATRIOT Act? For prosecuting Bush-Cheney for spying on the phone calls & emails of American citizens? For outlawing the Bush Doctrine of “pre-emptive war”? For opposing the trend towards ever-greater media concentration?”
Do you really think that these are somehow the only important issues? The democrats have stances which support things like free health care, free education, gay rights, pro-choice, environmental issues; they acknowledge the war on Iraq is wrong. The republicans are against free anything and want to keep Bush’s tax breaks for the rich, they want to make legislation against homosexuals, they want to make abortion illegal, insist global warming doesn’t exist at all, and openly insist they won’t end the war or occupation in Iraq. Those are the differences, and those are the reasons why having a democratic president will be better (that the democrats stance on all of them is not up to my personal standards is moot because it is a two party system and the repugnicians, as I said, don’t share any of these perspectives.) If you can’t see any of that, then I think you are a right wing troll here campaigning for the republican party; and apparently one who is not a member of a minority.
I won’t accept a right wing dictator destroying the planet while a third party starts its long journey to influence. That is not democracy.
mbruton,
I noticed that Hillary was chosen as the next president back in 2004, but I’m not confident that the election won’t be stolen somehow. The Article V sounds interesting, though I doubt that a bloody revolution would lead to restoring the constitution, or that this is even the best that can be done (writing a new one would ideally be better depending on who penned it.)I am not optimistic about America, or Earth, but I’m sure that the republican party will destroy everything faster.
iolellity seems to be saying that the only option to the republicans is the democrats. This is the logic that keeps our corrupt two sided bad penny of a system in place and is of course non sense. Bill Clinton was the best republican president this country ever had. Voting for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama or any of the other Dems being considered “front runners” is a vote to keep the corrupt system in place. If everyone who votes would vote for a third party, I don’t care which one, then we would see real change in this country.
I will never waste my vote by voting for someone whom I do not believe in again. I will vote my conscience. If the Democrats can not manage to win the election on their own merit, by putting forth a real alternative, then they do not deserve to be elected.
There is a dnynamics of organizing. If you take a snapshot of where things are at now, impeachment and removal appear to be impossible tasks. The anti-war organizations need to unite, make it a common demand and also draft very clear Articles of Impeachment, so the Dems don’t go to the lowest common denominator when the broad movement forces them to seriously take up impeachment and removal of Cheney/Bush.
The actions of the Bush clique have seriously eroded what most Americans love about America and they most Americans know it, but don’t know what to do about it. If the Dems want to win, they must offer the alternative. They don’t know what to do, but when the case is presented coherently and intelligently, a large majority will support it. The 20 Republican Senate seats up in 2008 will put the majority of Repubs running for reelection to those seats in a quandry — either they vote to remove or their educated constituencies will vote to remove them. That’s how we get 67 votes in the Senate.
As none of the Dem front-runners want Nancy Pelosi to become President in 2007 (the result of a successful impeachment/removal of Dick Cheney, they will throw impediment after impediment in the way. The anti-war groups and their constituencies must make it clear to them — do it or else we don’t care who wins in 2008, as it makes no difference. Some of us may go third party. Others may not vote, but try to build a third party. When our numbers are reflected in real polls, they will back down and do it.
And remember, this really is speaking truth to power and they are experts and deflecting and diverting — doing the minimal amount necessary in order to get the vote. Anti-war groups that don’t join in are simply front groups for the Dems or provocateurs anyway. Just stop contributing to them (and the Dems if they don’t take up the fight).
Cindy Sheehan was right today. Many of us have ridden her courage and sacrfice. Now let’s give her something to cheer about. Nancy Pelosi for President in 2007. Impeach Bush/Cheney now and end the killing and maiming of Amerians and Iraqis.
If you decide to vote for the lesser of two evils, the outcome is still gonna be EVIL. I am 60 years old and I will no longer let anyone convince me that THAT is a genuine choice. It is not!!!! Vote for what you truly believe in and let the damned chips fall where they may. At least then, you can eliminate the outrage and disgust that so many of us feel in the face of this failed two party system. Apart from Dennis Kuchinich, there isn’t a Democrat in Washington worth voting for. Third parties do not succeed overnight. I’m working toward change for my children and grandchildren. Our current system is a nightmare I wish I could awaken from.
Disgusting! These nutless sacks with shit for brains think of Impeachment like any other piece of legislation before before them. It’s not a new law or budget! It’s an essential part of our Constitution! They have no higher calling then to defend and uphold the Constitution.
Now this “new congress” has death and blood on their hands. I’m so pissed. The time and money I gave in the hope of real change with moral authority behind it is squandered.
At the start of each new U.S. Congress, in January of every odd-numbered year, those newly elected or re-elected Congressmen - the entire House of Representatives and one-third of the Senate - must recite an oath:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.
THEY ARE FAILING US.
With only 2 parties, political speech is controlled and managed; only certain ideas are allowed to be discussed.
With only 2 parties, political action can be controlled: only certain strategies are followed.
Freedom for America demands more political voices, more political parties with seats in congress. 2 party control must end.
Iollelity
“I noticed that Hillary was chosen as the next president back in 2004, but I’m not confident that the election won’t be stolen somehow.”
Have a look at Greg Pallast’s book, “Armed Madhouse”, to see the game plan for stealing the 2008 elections. It’s all planned out.
I was wondering, back in the run-up to the 2004 presidential race, why Bush was so laid back about the whole thing. Despite Kerry’s mistakes — and they were grave ones — and the Rovian smear campaign’s effectiveness against him, he actually won the popular vote by 3 million votes. The Democrats worked night and day to get out the vote, and they succeeded in doing that. They were not defeated at the polls. Check out the book. The name of the game is racism, right here in America, purging the lists, throwing away ballots, and more.
A rabbi - who lived and preached a life of virtue while his congregation ignored him and went on with their selfish ways - was asked, “Rabbi, why do you bother? Nobody listens. You’re not changing anything.” And the rabbi replied, “But you misunderstand. I don’t do it to change them. I do it to keep them from changing me.”
starofthesea:
I’m 61 and I agree with what you said and come from a similar place. It amazes me that the vast bulk of progressives, moveon.org, and the other groups have not actively campaigned for Kucinich. He’s on the money on every issue and is even a Democrat (so they can’t lynch him like they tried to lynch Nader, who was also correct on virtually everything). Progressives seem to whine and then accept the “conventional wisdom” put forward by the same pundits who knowingly accepted and cheerled the lies that got us into Iraq and who now predict a catastrophe of biblical proportions if we pull out the vast bulk of the arms and military in Iraq (us). The pundits and the front runners all say Kucinich can’t win, so the progressives say the same thing — even though if you vote for him, you’re NOT voting for the lesser of the evils.
Kucinich supports impeachment of Cheney and Bush. Kucinich supports universal health care. And on and on. Why then do progressives accept the always wrong pundits’ and “send-them-to-war-despite-the-intelligence Democratic front runners’ analyses and act as if the alternatives are between, as Adam Clayton Powell used to say, tweedlee dee, tweedly dumb and tweedly dumber? Hillary and Edwards lost their right to be seriously considered because they demonstrated profoundly horrendous judgment by voting for the war against more than half of their party in Congress and the overwhelming intelligence that Saddam had no WMDs and was an enemy of al Qaeda at the time. Obama started off well, but then bought in to a strategy that gradually, as opposed to rapidly gets out of there, at the expense of lives and limbs of Americans and Iraqis. But Kucinich’s position is and always has been solid. Yet there’s minimal support among progressives for him and for impeachmant of Bush and Cheney, even though it’s the only way to end the war quickly.
Even the progressives have become so caught up in the hype, they’ve given up on doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing.
Although I do get it, I don’t get it.
Take care.
Let’s examine iolellity’s feeble attempts at 10:02 pm above, to respond to my challenge that he spell out the Democrats’ supposedly large “differences” from Republicans.
He writes, “The democrats have stances which support things like free health care, free education, gay rights, pro-choice, environmental issues; they acknowledge the war on Iraq is wrong. The republicans are against free anything and want to keep Bush’s tax breaks for the rich, they want to make legislation against homosexuals, they want to make abortion illegal, insist global warming doesn’t exist at all, and openly insist they won’t end the war or occupation in Iraq.”
Let’s take the funniest assertion first. No, Mr iolellity, the Democrats most definitely do not “acknowledge the war in Iraq is wrong.” Otherwise, they would not have given Bush $100 billion with no strings attached last week, to continue that war. The only Democrats who have actually said that the war is “wrong” are Kucinich & Gravel. By no coincidence, neither of those 2 has the slightest chance of being nominated.
And actually, Democrats do not support “free health care.” You can be sure they don’t really support it, because it would involve stepping on the toes of big drug companies, HMO’s, and giant insurance corporations. So what the Dems really do on this issue, is occasionally drop suggestive hints about universal health care. But the only Dem who’s really serious about it, Dennis Kucinich, has zero chance of being nominated. That’s because he’s serious about universal health care (among other things). The 3 Dems who have a real chance of being nominated are very careful to structure their suggestions in such a way that the aforementioned corporations do not get their toes stepped on. Naturally, this guarantees that enormous profits will continue to flow to them. Guess who pays for those profits.
Do the Dems “support gay rights?” Not really. It would be more accurate to say that they are less opposed to gay rights than the Republicans, who are of course vicious bigots & homophobes.
Are the Dems against Bush’s tax cuts for the rich? No, they actually helped Bush pass them in 2001. No leading Dem is seriously talking about repealing them.
Are the Dems determined to preserve abortion rights? No. If they were, they would filibustered against Bush’s 2 Supreme Court nominations in 2006, both of whom were known to support the repeal of Roe v Wade.
In sum, Mr iollellity tried to respond to a direct challenge,& simply couldn’t do it. This is partly because he’s poorly informed, but mainly because the facts are not on his side. In almost every area, there is little or nothing of real substance that distinguishes the 2 big business parties. They have a few cosmetic style differences.
I wrote my Congresswoman [Mazie Hirono, Dem/HI], Impeachment is mandatory with Bush’s latest National Security Policy Statement signed on May 9th [NSPD 51].
Under NSPD-51, Bush has the sole authority to govern in a National Emergency, usurping not only federal powers, but also those of the states.
The Administrative Branch controls not only the Military, but ALL Police Powers.
Congress is only a debating society unless, and until, it uses the two powers granted it in the body of the Constitution:
1) The Power of the Purse; which it tossed out last week; and
2) The Power to Impeach.
If Bush and his friends steal a 3rd election, which seems likely, the sitting Congress is finished. It will have no powers after the 2008 election is certified.
If these idiots are going to do anything they’d better get busy - The clock is running. Calling a hearing in the Judiciary Committee to investigate what happened will be ludicrous, but par for the course that Pelosi has laid out.
I think she is so impressed with the FIRST Female Speaker of the House, that she’s forgotten what the job entails!
iris, I’ve just ordered that book from the library; thanks.
xntrk,
Mazie Hirono is my congresswoman as well. If you can get anything out of her other than a generic auto-reply email. let me know how you did it. Otherwise, she’s just another democrat (lower-case ‘d’ intentional).
OK, Got it.
The Republican moles sending in messages want us to either vote Green, or give up and not vote at all… they play the same trick every election starting about a year beforehand.
Not convinced? One year is absolutely not enough time for the Green or any other third party to defeat the Republicans when the votes are counted.
The Democratic Party reflects the various regional ideological and cultural differences of the United States and maintains unity nonetheless. The Republican party is dogmatic, unthinking, and driven by greed and disgusting religious pretenses. Period. The Repub party pays lip-service to liberal jargon on occasion to get votes and deceive, but always ends up serving the ultra-rich and White Males Only…. all else servants of the masters, crypto-fascist, Military Industrial Complex mall rat trainers. And they routinely play the sleaziest of political campaign games.
A third party MUST first consolidate power and have a coherent platform on issues addressing the needs of a wide range of the American population. The Green Party isn’t there yet.
Slander of the Democratic Party by supposed ‘Greens’ is clearly nothing but Crypto-Republican propaganda designed to help the Elephants continue to trample us over, pirate all our national assets into the hands of the oligarchs, and knock us down if we dare get in the way.
Real Greens are be willing to share the power with the Democratic Party for 2008, which has the power-base already established to win.
Fake Greens are fake and on the payroll of the Republican campaign machine.
A third party of any value has got to have some substance and a power base that can defeat the iron-clad Republican machine, which is The Most Critical issue RIGHT NOW for the United States. The Greens don’t have it.. come back when you have something that can win an election and run a country.
IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY, AND BEGIN THE PROCESS A.S.A.P. Thank you Kucinich for actively pushing for this, and for being a real statesman and public servant.
DEMOCRATS must stand united and Not Give Up ship (as the Republicans want us to do), as only 1 year is left before the election.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/24/AR2007042401542.html
Dennis Kucinich introduced Articles of Impeachment for Cheney on April 24, 2007, in House Resolution 333, yet there’s not one mention of it in this article, nor in the 79 comments following it. I don’t understand why Kucinich and this resolution are so invisible! He is one of the few people with the ability to lead this nation to honest and peaceful greatness, but if his incredible actions, including introducing HR33, aren’t even acknowledged by the alternative media, I don’t know how his word will ever get out! I know Common Dreams wrote about it when it happened, which is awesome, but without constant daily reminders, it appears that nobody remembers HR333 is even there! Call your reps today and insist that HR333 be passed! It’s in there! All they have to do is vote on the darned thing!
I’ve nearly lost hope that Americans will ever get off the couch and take back their country, but I imagine if Kucinich did get noticed by citizens and became a viable threat to the criminal powers that be, he and his beautiful wife may very well end up in a mysterious plane crash, which has been the fate of more than one viable peaceful leader in the last few years.
“No, Mr. iolellity, the Democrats most definitely do not “acknowledge the war in Iraq is wrong.” Otherwise, they would not have given Bush $100 billion with no strings attached last week, to continue that war.”
We are talking about the presidential nomination, and for the sake of argument Obama and Hillary, along with a few others who might have been posturing less voted “no.” They also say they have plans to end the Iraq war while republicans say they won’t end it. My point stands; that is, after all, a difference. I don’t deny that congress could have stopped the war already.
“Are the Dems against Bush’s tax cuts for the rich? No, they actually helped Bush pass them in 2001. No leading Dem is seriously talking about repealing them.”
Actually, John Edwards has said that his universal health care plan will be funded by repealing those tax cuts. But ultimately, you haven’t disproven my assertions; you haven’t said that the republicans actually are going to give any positive health care reform. That is where the difference is. I haven’t tried to claim the democratic party is the green party or that Obama, Hillary, and Edwards are Kucinich; just that they are different than mccain, guliani, and bush. Obviously you don’t care about that.
In conclusion, you responded to my post with a small set of arguments which were not evidence based and outright wrong when you entered into specifics about tax cuts. But in any case, as I said before, those who actually care about those issues and will be effected by them (those of us homosexuals who don’t want to have the constitution amended to say we are scum, etc) will care and be able to see that a democratic president is better and different in lue of a third party or green coup.
I’m really not going to bother with you about this again, or anyone else who acts like they are debating facts but doesn’t put out any themselves.
I wonder if we could convince all the Republicans and just enough of the Dems to vote to impeach all the Democrats for not doing their constitutional duty and impeaching the Republicans? Or would that be spun as “playing politics”?
“No president gets to be the worst in American history without a bit of help from the other side.”
Impeachment is not enough. It gives this incomparably corrupt Bush an opportunity to be declared innocent. Too little, too late.
As worthy as impeachment is, too many Dems are wearing Republican boots and would vote him as acting within the powers they themselves have given him. The system, all three branches of our government, is too corrupt for redemption, me thinks, and beyond redemption…
Dave 955, The only one who actually replies is Akaka - Usually a couple of months after I’ve forgotten I wrote him…
I use the Big D on purpose - to me it stands for the Washington pros. The “little d’s” are just the deez and doze guys I grew up with. It doesn’t take long to turn a ‘little d’ into a BIG D - There are very few who retain their little guy stature more then one or two years.
I also write the letters and make a phone call now and then just to irritate the staff and remind them there are actually people who care,
Thus the western empire crumbles on in slow motion, a babble of voices scarcly heard above the groaning weight of crime. The world is running fevers while multitudes huddle in their cubbies typing out their frustration, “… anyone out there know how to set up an online petition?”, “corrupt!”, “impeach!”, “dummies,chickens!!!” I, too have taken the time to make a password to raise my voice to you instead of making paper flowers with my daughter who plays alone in the room. Looks to me like the Adams, Franklins, Jeffersons are fighting my government’s tyranny in Iraq… if we went out and met our neighbors, made little teams…(a feudal system?), and, even if its only to pool for solar panels, they’ll call us insurgents, cells- In the end, our ‘enemies’ have shown us how to fight. But suicide ? Not me. I don’t see any fervant christians going for it either. You have to believe you’re going to heaven to do that, or that you would do ANYTHING to have justice.
Blah, I’m going to make flowers- too late, she’s gone. Cindy ?
Drex May 29th, 2007 2:25 pm
As a young man I gave a lot of thought to the question: “how did Germany, with an educated public by the standards of the day, allow itself to slip into a fascist State? Not only a fascist state but one bent on genocide”. Unfortunately I have the answer as I watch the United States beg to go there consumed with hate and fear mixed with apathy.
Drex,
I asked myself those same questions over FORTY years ago while stationed in Germany. I’d read many of the Nurenburg War Crimes Trial documents and was amazed at how an entire group of people could be swayed into doing such horrific deeds. Like you I now have the answer. We are in the middle of a Civil War in THIS country (forget the one in Iraq). The only difference is that we aren’t shooting at each other (yet).
I was hopeful about the Democrats for about five seconds after the turnover in Congress. Right till Pelosi said they wouldn’t attempt impeachment.
Call Nancy Pelosi’s office: 202-225-0100 (provided by newageartist above), and leave a message saying you’re mad and you want
those two dictators IMPEACHED NOW and that you’re not going to forget about this. Enough public outcry will change their minds.
It will. Don’t give up.
“The California Green Party is even staffed with former Nazis at its helm - there’s where you need to look for hypocrites.”
Such as?
- Republicans are campaigning to get Democrats to vote Green because when the elections come around, it keeps Republicans voting for one candidate, and Democrats splintered to lose. This is how Schwazinazi stole California, how Gore lost, and how Nixon won.
And you know it, CIAMarc.
Gore won Florida, and the reasons why the election was close enough to be stolen had much more to do with the shortcomings of his own campaign than Nader.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about with Nixon. George Wallace, who was the only third party candidate on the ballot in most states, campaigned to the right of Nixon in 1968.
As for Arnold winning California because of the Greens, you just pulled that one out of thin air.
“Slander of the Democratic Party by supposed ‘Greens’ is clearly nothing but Crypto-Republican propaganda designed to help the Elephants continue to trample us over, pirate all our national assets into the hands of the oligarchs, and knock us down if we dare get in the way.”
There’s nothing slanderous about pointing out how the Democrats have followed the Republicans further and further to the right.
“Real Greens are be willing to share the power with the Democratic Party for 2008, which has the power-base already established to win.”
First of all, I’m not going to take lectures from a Democrat on what a real or fake Green is. Contrary to popular opinion, simply being a liberal Democrat does not make one an expert on the Green Praty. Second, what kind of power would Greens have to share with the Democrats? Right now, a Democrat-Green alliance is for all intents and purposes a Democrat alliance.
“Fake Greens are fake and on the payroll of the Republican campaign machine.”
That’s really rich, when you consider that the Democrats in Congress almost always give Bush enough votes to make his agenda look bipartisan. Who’s really helping the Republicans?
“A third party of any value has got to have some substance and a power base that can defeat the iron-clad Republican machine, which is The Most Critical issue RIGHT NOW for the United States. The Greens don’t have it.. come back when you have something that can win an election and run a country.”
But that’s what Democrats always say, and we keep getting worse and worse choices from the two-party system. Third parties gather strength from running candidates, not from sitting elections out. They are built by people who are willing to give their votes and volunteer time. Refusing to support a third party until it can win all but dooms the party to failure.
The charges against these two criminals go on and on. This is the easiest case to document in our nation’s history. The Democrats need to recognize that this is the best chance we have to derail future illegal wars (Republican and Democratic)and to restore the checks and balances in the Constitution.
Drex & Raoul, as per the nazi (”good Germans”) question, insights can be drawn from Wilhelm Reich, and his contention has a lot to do with sexual repression of a society. Leon Uris’ fiction work, Armageddon, speaks of German mysticism, the “worship of the oily muscle” (as Nietschze termed it) and other macho-masculine role models that in a perverse way Hitler, as grand father, personified. George Lakoff’s work on the strict father family model and how it aligns with conservative thinking (on the part of adults raised within such family models) adds further material. When church and family both make their goal socializing the individual to UNNATURAL standards, the individual is left in a sort of civil war with his innate self. When people are thus dispossessed they often seek an authority figure outside themselves to tell them what’s “right.” It’s not so different from the Christian fundamentalists in our midst who adhere to the strict father-family model, push the “abstinence” agenda (while the mmass media is pulsing with sexual cues), are making inroads to guard against both birth CONTROL and abortion rights (for women), while ironically supporting war, military adventurism of the most heinous sort, and the continued abstraction of “defense,” a paradigm of waste so enormous and so “sinfully” based on the goal of killing that it confounds the imagination to envision a more sinister belief system. If this was just some 300 or so Jim Jones style followers I’d say little; but this is a HUGE movement in our midst and it represents those that support the Bush presidency and the considerable wounding its directly imploding upon the world, our own nation, and sustainable ecosystems. Sex, taken as original “sin” has caused a chasm in people’s thought processes. It’s seen in Islam, too, where women even flirting may be punished for “honor crimes.” In certain Arab and/or West African nations the female clitoris is taken out WITHOUT anesthesia. God forbid the female come to KNOW pleasure. This anti-nature, anti-sex, anti-pleasure stance has a LOT to do with the collective anger, pain, aggression, angst and perversion of societies that then channel all that dark, dis-eased and disturbing force on others, or themselves. America is pretty sick these days… 40% are now obese and where I live, we’re talking MORBID obesity! People are so alien to their own bodies, twisted in part due to the fear of their own God given natural urges the church has turned them against. Alcoholism is rampant and I suspect at a higher rate in Florida (the state of escape) then other places. I’ve read that 25-30 million Americans are on anti-depressants and then there are all kinds of street drugs. Porn is a drug, so is sugar, so is violence. How many of our citizens are spiritually, mentally and physically healthy? Advertising, which the film Bedazzled wittily termed “the new 8th sin” has a lot to do with creating these false appetites that sicken the populace of our land and others. When mankind sets up societies that work against nature, they cannot be ultimately sustained. Due to environmental collapse, we are facing that truth and for those who survive the changes ahead, a complete rethinking of the human being’s relationship to Spirit, the opposite gender, and society at large will ensue. Great strides in that debate are being made by The World Social Forum and its foremost thinkers. Many on this site have a role to play…
There is a quick and effective way to deal with changing the Democratic party failures, without forming a third party in this short period of time.
There are Democrats in each state of the sellouts in the lower level of politics with a record of where they stand and the monies they accepted, keep in mind independents and republicans like Ron Paul that demonstrate a strong concern for the Constitution. Speak to them and give them the support to run against the present malfunctions. Under no circumstances allow Pelosi, Reed and others who are obviously shields for the shot callers to remain in office.
Use mathematics to swing power; I am sure there are more than (10) million Americans angry about the present situation that exists. If each would pledge to themself, they will do all they can to speak to (10) other voters and potential voters to explore the reality of the times.
Organize in small or large groups to save America now or become a part of history, describing how weak minds surrendered the greatest experiment of Democracy in history failed, because of fear and ignorance.
We are in serious times and to ignore the evidence of facts, is as suicidal as the suicide bombers. To embrace the present group of decision makers is the same as strapping TNT to your body and family. (Think about it)
Add Oberlin, Ohio, (as of last week) to the list of city councils (unanamous vote) urging impeachment of Bush/Cheney. First city in Ohio to do so.
sioux rose-thanks for your post it was very informative.
The only kind of impeachment that would make ANY kind of difference is the impeachment of the government en masse.
Kick ‘em ALL out. Every Senator. Every Congrressman and woman. Start over from scratch.
The system didn’t fail. The people failed the system.
sioux rose-thanks for your post it was very informative. same for many more here.
A very popular idea among liberals who have recently woken up to the idea that something is seriously rotten in America is the fantasy that “we should just hijack the Democratic Party,” like the neocons supposedly hijacked the Republican Party.
This notion is wishful thinking, & can only be sustained if one ignores the the salient facts & actual history. The Repub Party was not really “hijacked.” There was never any real resistance to the rightwards move, because the party’s real character was always such that it would do whatever was required to advance the interests of the US financial oligarchy.
The Dem Party, on the other hand, cannot be “hijacked,” and a great deal of care has gone into assuring that the party will remain impervious to any attempts to change it. The consultants, apparatchiks, pundits, elected officials, & big donors who make up the party’s ruling sections are perfectly well aware of the idealists on the fringes who would like to “change” the party. You can be absolutely certain that they will only allow such change over their collective dead bodies.
Today’s political corruption is widespread without precedent. This is because it’s a SYSTEMIC problem, not just wrong-doing by some limited number of individuals. No solution can be found inside the framework of the 2-party system, because that system is a direct cause of the massive corruption. A 2-party system is inherently undemocratic; it allows our ruling class to blithely ignore the popular will; and it’s precisely because of this feature that our rulers insist that we endure this system at all costs.
All attempts to “take over” the Dem Party to make it perform as a “party of the people” are doomed to failure, because they accept the 2-party framework imposed by the ruling class to guarantee that they control everything while the rest of the population controls nothing.
Great posts siouxrose and RichM!
Corporate-fascism didn’t happen overnight.
Ralph Nader certainly understood what was happening and warned us.
The corruption of this administration must be prosecuted — either by impeachment or in the courts. The corrupt principles and precedents of this administration cannot be allowed to stand.
We need IRV voting — and a total ban on any participation by corporations in our elections.
And — an end to electronic voting machines and VOTESCAM would also be a good start.
I had a thought while reading all of these comments. I thought that I should go to the voter registration office and change my designation from Democrat to Independent (or even republican).
What would be the Dems response if thousands…or millions…of Dems did the same thing. They may be beholding to the corporations for money but they still need voter support to get elected. At the same time, we could contact our representatives to inform them of our actions and the reasoning behind them. We will not vote democrat until they start to act responsibly and start representing our interests.
It goes without saying that no money be contributed to these betrayers of the voting public.
Does this make sense?
Funky P
DO NOT VOTE.
Let the Rethugs get re-elected - how much worse can it get?
Toss every single WEAK-WILLED Democrat from office. Let this be the least-participated election in history.
Come 2010 our choices will NOT be between the LAZY, GOOD-FOR-NOTHING Dems and Republicans, but honest people seeking office FOR THE FIRST TIME.
If you do vote - VOTE OUT THE INCUMBANT REGARDLESS OF PARTY.
If they held office, THEY ARE CRIMINAL. Politicians seek only re-election. Re-election costs money. Money comes from the corporate interests that run our government. (Those corporations, like GE for instance, SOLD US THE WAR, stop conversation on climate change and dope us with pharmaceuticals so that we can “sleep.” Ambien anyone?)
There is NO difference between a Republican and a Democrat. The exact same things take place. Look at your Democratic Senators voting record for proof. My Senator is Ken Salazar. He has a worse voting record than Joe Lieberman. nuff said. Why would I vote for him to keep a “Republican” out of office? I get the SAME result!!!
NO INCUMBANT VOTES!!!
Peace to you and yours.
- iolellity
My point is that the the election WILL be stolen. Not by the dems or repubs but by the corporatists who pull their strings. Another win by the repubs at this point would tip the scales and cause widespread political unrest of a scale this country has rarely seen since the civil war if not outright revolution or civil war. Therefore the dems have to win and will, but only a dem that is in their back pocket and who will obediently further their agenda of crushing anyone and everyone who stands between them and increased profits and control.
You’ll see some piddling reforms like miserley minimum wage increases. After all what does an extra 50 cents an hour really matter when you have double digit inflation and you can easily close shop and employ near slave labor with impunity. Also, it won’t be long before we are sued under the WTO for even HAVING a minimum wage and therefore interfering with corporate profitability. And if they aren’t able to ramrod Hillary into the being the dem candidate for president then they always have Obama in place as a back up.
I honestly think there may be 6-12 people in the senate and congress who are honest servants to the people and who are doing what they think is right even if I totally disagree with them on many or even most points.
I personally believe the constitution is a great foundation for a just society or at least a solid beginning for one but it needs some teeth - some way to hold our so called representatives accountable when they betray their oaths to it. I’m not saying I have all the answers and careful study and consideration should be taken in adding to it but we definately need a few changes.
The way its going we will be lucky,damn lucky to see 2008…
No incumbent votes, end the two-party corporate bought system, take over the Democratic Party, leave the Democratic Party, blah, blah. Until it’s broken beyond all ability to be endured it’s going to carry on. Why? Because this was all predictable and nobody cared to talk or even think about it until it has become a seemingly obvious problem. Yet even now, as obvious as it is, the critical mass for sweeping revolutionary change just isn’t there. You can’t work within the system, playing by the rules ‘they’ created to beat them at their own game. We are sheep, ineffective and easily manipulated by a manking structure. Siouxrose is on the right track, but it is much deeper and reaches much further. There are many basic presumptions of our inner humanity, of social structure and order, of morality and mores that govern how we act and behave, instilled in us generation after generation with little or no contemplation for where they came from, who they serve, how well they serve us, or where they can take us. These involve the nature of our individuality and principles of spirituality, the meaning of life and congruent social structures, the purpose and administration of government, the intent and spirit of law versus the letter and strict interpretation of it, the essential character of interpersonal relationships and the legal institution of marriage, the history and nature of money and banking, creativity and free enterprise versus profiteering, usury, and power, educational methodology, etc. In each of these, and more, we presume to fix them in accordance to what we think we know from the past rather than by what they will provide us in the future. We are, as a people, so easily bamboozled because our future vision is blinded. We are led down false paths because we are dazzled. And we submit our will because we fear, as Mandela said, our own light and power. So shepard on our flock oh great mankings!
Impeach for justice… What good are all those cowboy movies without the pursuit of justice now… Impeach for justice: Eat a Peach for Peace
The Democrats want to keep the American People off the table. Corporations only need apply.
With the May 9th Executive Order signed by Bush this year, any national emergency real, fabricated or engineered will give Bush complete control of the entire government unless a significant number of the military refuse to take orders.
Its a weird mathmatics indeed when
1933 = 2000
This is a high tech dark age people.
I warned people at my church recently that my greatest worry was that if or when Al Qaeda attacked us here again, Bush would declare martial law, and so would end what freedoms we still have left. The May 9th Executive Order is the set-up to the inevitable final constitutional crisis.
It seems to me if we all voted for a 3rd party we’d be back to the 2000 elections. Vote for the Dems but hold their feet to the fire when they have the majority in both houses and the oval office. The repugs will completely destroy the constitution if we do not vote for the Democratic party on 08…it is our LAST BEST chance to change everything.
Here’s a scenario for you…the dems screw up the next election, Fred Thompson or Rudey gets elected — then the GOP reverses all BUSH’s criminal actions and gives us a VERY conservative government while the the idiots in the country who don’t pay attention THINK the country has been SAVED. We’ll be stuck with a revitilized GOP for decades…and be in this mess for the rest of our lives….
We MUST insure the next election that every office up for grabs goes democratic. If votes are stolen, it will be way past time to get our collective asses out on the streets.
First, congressional investigations have to be held, expose the crimes of Bush and Cheney and their ilk, THEN file for impeachement when facts are available and unavoidable for the people to see. Then try, convict, detain, imprison at the very least. To repeat some others here: this is NOT a game. Politicians have to be careful. There is a crime “family” running this country, do you want to remove them from power without protection?
I have no doubt that al queda wants to attack us before Bush leaves offi