Joan Baez Backs Barack Obama in US Presidency Race

I wonder if Joan will back a sister should the Rising Super Star He Who Can Do Wrong Spouting Inspiration wherever he goes loses the nomination.

I'd like to know exactly what prompted Joan.

Yea Thommo, w said it would be the central front in his great crusade, er,um I mean War on Terror TM. And he as made it so. I am not convinced this was unintentional. If you want a war without end, what better way to get it?

orphan,
Yes the way Baby Bush has gone about fighting the global war on terror is the dumbest ever. The one place in the Arab world where terrorists were kept firmly out was Iraq under Saddam. Then Dumbo wades in with all guns blazing and managed to give Al Qaeda a foothold there. He now can't get out of the quagmire.
The only thing that Iraq (in Saddam's day)had in common with Al Qaeda were the letters Q and A!

Not that I expect you to see this Big Bad Bob, but.....

What in the F**k does killing Vietnamese or Iraqis for that matter have to do with whether or not the lettuce gets delivered? Have you been sucking on your tail pipe again?

Obama is a globalist just like the Clintons and Bushies.Ron Paul really is the real deal.I was very happy to hear that Arlo Guthrie is a RP supporter.

What could be worse than Obama? but President McCain, Vice Pres. Hickabee, and Attorney General Nigroponte. Now that's something to have nightmares about since Hickabee just won W.Virginia. As for Joan, well, what makes her opinion worth anything although she's a great singer, not an expert on Economics, History, or Presidential Candidates.

Thommo yep right on, add Afghanistan and I won't bore you with all the other countries since the Monroe Doctrine, The Yellow Peril, The Domino Theory, Communists everywhere and now the mother of them all this so called "GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM."

We need less in the way of inspiration and platitudes, and more in the way of political medical attention. For those who need inspiration, go to church, listen to Anthony Robbins, or visit an art gallery, take walks outside, etc.

When I have to see a doctor, I don't look for inspiration.

RJKT asked "What song would she sing?"

I guess Joan would have to come up within something like Bangladesh:

"The story of Bangladesh
Is an ancient one again made fresh
By blind men who carry out commmands
Which flow out of the laws upon which nation stands
Which is to sacrifice a people for a land"

Perhaps she can use the same words - merely supplanting Iraq for Bangladesh!

ruthru, thanks for that link to Larry Chin's article.
That's the one everyone should read.

Stiv Whitman February 4th, 2008 11:34 pm

"That's why I'm speaking up on behalf of critical thought, asking you to read Zunes article on Foreign policy, asking you to listen to Michelle Obama's speech."

I appreciate your being straight with me Stiv. I did watch the two videos you posted links to. The young people are certainly inspiring, it is indeed good to see these kids so enthusiastic, and being able to see their efforts rewarded is keeping then engaged. You are also right that speech by Michelle Obama is certainly something to listen to.

I am not one for jumping on the band wagon though, and I wonder, cynic that I am, what will become of these young people if Mr. Obama is either unsuccessful, or lets them down.

I was a child when JFK inspired a generation. I remember my Mother, so enthusiastic, she was a true believer. I remember how shattered her hope was....... I remember LBJ and the build up of the Vietnam war after. I have studied the policies and practices of JFK, inspiring as he was, he was an imperialist, the evidence of his judgment leaves serious doubts. But who knows where he might have taken us had he not been murdered when he was.

The fact is I am not a Democrat, and I do not subscribe to classic American Liberalism and it's centralized top down, big government, approaches to solving the problems inherent in a society. But that is for another thread.

I agree with you that it is an interesting phenomenon, we shall see what things look like tonight.

I have very serious reservations about both Democratic candidates. I would have liked Edwards. But, I am going to vote for which ever Democratic candidate comes out the winner. As far as I am concerned, there isn't much of a choice. Republican's mean more of the never ending wars, deficit, failed neocon policies and mess here at home. A third party candidate is a vote thrown away because they can't win. So it winds up the least of the evils! And I see the Republican's as evil these days. I won't vote for any of them under any circumstances.

So corporations have donated money to the Obama campaign? Gosh, what a surprise. Is that the best you can do? We all know that!

Read the article by Stephen Zunes. The differences are real and significant between Clinton and Obama on foreign policy. But domestic policy is also at stake. Vote Green later, but if you have a chance to choose Obama over Clinton, it should be a clear choice today to set up the best possible options.

This isn't about being naive, it's about the 'real politics' of the limited choices we have--assuming the voting machines are not rigged. New Hampshire was suspicious...

No more Clintons, No to the Republicans.

Wonder what song Ms. Baez and the rest of her 'babes-in-the-woods' gang will sing when Obama ( the true maestro of real-politik ) lets them down ...

" Its a hard rain's a gonna fall" perhaps.

First Joan Baez..now Frederic Chopin..looks like we're just a whisker away from both Heaven and Hell ( in an unprecedented display of unanimity ) endorsing Obama.

The way things are going ,he's clearly poised to trump even Christ : the triumphal ride into Jerusalem .. the wild Hosannas of the billions - with none of the agony, and the finality of the Crucifixion.

In this Gaderene rush ,all clearly have dismissed the saying "put not your trust in princes' , as being old hat . And therefore thoroughly out of date.

Get Eric Clapton to get his old band together and we can have a concert "Impeach & Cream"

Last night in my dreams I visited heaven and met with the late Frederic-Francois Chopin. Even he endorses Obama. That make is final for me. I'm voting for Obama. Hey, perhaps someone could write "Nocturne to Obama"...

I have to say that in this photo, Joan Baez looks positively classy , sleek ( and radiant ) . But none the less a very pale shadow of her former passionately activist self.

Clearly she suffers from the same affliction that has laid low many an activist viz. a surfeit of prosperity.

One can only hope her exquisite bell-clear voice ( that so many of us thrilled to in the late 60s and 70s )hasn't been similarly coarsened.

Any activist , endorsing a politician ,has to be scraping the very bottom of the barrel.(Even if the politician in question is being portrayed as the next Mahatma Gandhi -or Martin Luther King.)

grandma, Big Bad Bob is a moron and a racist, he was referring to illegal immigrants as 'spics' on a CD thread just day's ago. I could not believe it.

Now he insults the beautiful Joan Baez, a woman of vision and peace, a singer who used her musicianship for good.

grandma, don't engage, the pig dig's it and you come in contact with it.

To etiquette. To Joan. and to CD, grazi.

hey now asked:

"I say, shit, in an imperfect world with far from ideal choices, is there anything wrong with getting behind SOMETHING you can STAND FOR, and then standing FOR something?"

I think I can answer this for everbody.

We do stand FOR something, in fact we STAND FOR many "things".

It is precisely those "things" which require us to stand AGAINST politicians like Obama, or at least be wary and ready to stand against him.

It is true that the "good" is often the enemy of the "ideal", and that practical compromise can often be neglected in favor of absolutism.

But it is also true that standing FOR something necessary but difficult, can make one seem to be AGAINST everything. This happens when the majority are focused only on false choices, easy choices, and are desperate to ignore the more truthful, but harder choice that one is reminding them of.

I think that if all the Citizens in this Nation-State are honest with themselves, and have the information they need to see the Truth, they would admit that this current system, the "two-party" system of governance, has been hopelessly and irrevocably broken by greed and Corporatist influence.

That many, in fact most, do not have truthful information, and that when they find it, they so often deny the Truth and seek the easy way, even when they know in their Hearts it is a lie, is not surprising.

It is unfortunate, but understandable.

---------------------------------------------------

This is something the Human People have been dealing with for a long time before now, and will deal with even after this election is over.

Just like the problem of "the good v. the ideal", the "easy false path" problem is part of who we are as Human Beings.

If we are, or if our Society is, to evolve into something more equitable, more sustainable, and more enjoyable for more of us than the Living System we currently employ, then these problems and many others will need to be addressed.

This is why many of us sound so gloomy when things like some Old Singer endorsing a Man willing to owe Rich People 1/2 a BILLION dollars to be President are available for us to comment on.

It's like, "Really, this is the shit your giving us here? Wow, how important and not at all a bullshit distraction!"

Lastly, I'd like to remind -hey now- that when you are NEVER the one who sets up the "choice", picking SOMETHING (anything?) that you've had forced on you is by no means "CHOOSING".

And, only a person who has FREELY chosen their path can truly be said to STAND FOR it, when they defend it.

Otherwise their just following orders, whether they admit it or not.

-----------------------------------------------------

To all of those here and everywhere who have chosen, or will choose, out of LOVE: I commend and honor you.

To all those here and everywhere who have chosen, or will choose, out of FEAR: I reproach and pity you.

We CAN do better than this, but it WILL BE HARD.

Still, we must TRY to have fun, kids, this ride is supposed to be FUN,

-matti.

We love you, Joan, but while Obama is inspiring us, who's going to get health care for 47 million Americans?

Common Dreams Editors, why isn't this article in your headlines instead?

Clinton, Obama, Insurance -- by Paul Krugman
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html?_r=1&oref=slogi...

Or the other one in the NY Times about anesthesia being dropped by Aetna?

Only going to get worse folks, no matter how much we sing.

hey now, you confuse me man, I'm not sure whose fuse was blown? You may want to check your own circuitry.

star.., I hear your concern about the vitriol but I think that there are enough sane people here that when things start to get out of hand, people, like yourself, help bring things back into focus. The anonymity of these forums allow for a certain freedom of expression that can go too far at times but I prefer that over censorship.

I enjoy coming here and reading the comments, as well as being able to put in my 4 cents (inflation), but it's odd not knowing anyone. Who are all these people? I think the only person who is not incognito is Paul Bramscher, everyone else is a mystery. Maybe that mystery allows for more creative expression but there is the price for that too. I wish I could meet most of the commenter's, get together and hash out some ideas and plans, just as long as Paul B. brings the beer.

magicmary: Just in case you want to read the whole article: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7808

magicmary,

Here's the evidence you wanted:

Barack Obama

Goldman Sachs
Lehman Brothers
National Amusements
JP Morgan
Exelon Energy (parent of Commonwealth Edison)
Citigroup
Citadel Investments
Credit Suisse
Skadden Arps
Morgan Stanley
Time Warner
UBS
Harvard University

Hey you guys, I know it is my fault.

It's like, hey, you don't like it, change the channel or turn it off- but don't ruin it for everyone else.

I am sorry.

I know I said I was done with you angry people. And I know there is noone worse than someone who is not angry when you are.

It's like sand in a wound.

For that I am sorry - but I gotta say: you people are REALLY miserable and nothing is going to change that is it?
I mean, hey, I hate Bushie and his whole cabal and all the evil they are perpetrating upon this country as well as this planet.
I find it all entirely vile!!!

But Jesus Christ people, isn't it possible for you all to see something to get behind here, and get behind something?
I mean, hell, Dennis is my ideal candidate hands down.
Love everything he stands for.
I even respect the hell out of Ron Paul and would even be willing to get behind him if the option was there (go figure huh?).
I thought Edwards had some very strong pluses.

Okay, now the field is changing and things are different.
Welcome to the real world.
You might not like it (I still am thinking about Canada myself, believe me)but you have to live in it.

I say, shit, in an imperfect world with far from ideal choices, is there anything wrong with getting behind SOMETHING you can STAND FOR, and then standing FOR something?

I think you guys are all going to blow some fuses in those little noggins of yours the way you're heating up!

Again, I truly am sorry. I am not usually one to go around dissing folks, but you Common Dreams "PROGRESSIVES" are something else, let me tell you.
Good luck to you all,
Hey Now!

rebelnow----I have been at other sites and the vitriole I read just gets to me. Maybe this thread was kinder--I can get them mixed up.

I have no problem with disagreement, but have found lately that when I visit this forum I become so discouraged by much that is posted---the attacks--that I leave without a word. I want to feel better about the human condition/potential not worse, and sometimes it seems like folks here on the left can be intolerant to the extreme. I would never stifle honest disagreement. I just wish people really listened to one another thoughtfully instead of feeling the need to defend their opinions at any cost.

rebelnow----I'd miss you if you run off to them thar hills so stay, even if you can't find it in your heart to support Obama. I'm not a true believer, I just feel like we need to have something to strive toward, and he does offer a kind of national healing that no others in the race have so far---can that be all bad?

I hate having to compromise my "pure principles, but it feels like the possibility of a huge shift in consciousness is coming. Obama may be the one to usher that change in, and if I am right and it is huge, he will be driven along by it's awesome power. How's that for optimism? I am so weary of being pessimistic but "right." I am gonna let myself start dreaming again of better days ahead.

starofthesea, maybe I'm being naive but I don't see the attacks you refer to. I think it's good for people to express their views and thoughts, even if it's in anger or frustration. Much learning goes on here, and for that I'm grateful. Thank you for pointing out the importance of cultivating gratitude.

A endorsement of Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader. Now that would be news. It would also take some courage.

Backing Obama is simply endorsing a candidate who will continue funding our bloated military budget and who will not even attempt to shut down about 700 U.S bases overseas. All his talk about change is obvious hot air.

Common Dreams should not print nonsense such as this.

Well, Chunga, I like Zappa too. If he were alive today, what would he say?

"You know we got to sit around at home
And watch this thing begin
But I bet there won't be many live
To see it really end
'Cause the fire in the street
Ain't like the fire in the heart
And in the eyes of all these people
Don't you know that this could start
On any street in any town
In any state if any clown
Decides that now's the time to fight
For some ideal he thinks is right
And if a million more agree
There ain't no Great Society
As it applies to you and me
Our country isn't free
And the law refuses to see
If all that you can ever be
Is just a lousy janitor
Unless your uncle owns a store
You know that five in every four
Just won't amount to nothin' more
Gonna watch the rats go across the floor
And make up songs about being poor.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhqqOR68VSs

The Obama thing isn't about him, it's about people finding hope that having a black president is going to inspire an erosion of racism, and that's evident at the rallies and the support we've been seeing. You don't get that from Clinton. Certainly not from McCain. I'm not naive. Read the article by Stephen Zunes. The differences are real and significant between Clinton and Obama on foreign policy. It should be a clear choice such as it has been already winnowed down more than most of us would want. I was a Kucinich supporter and donor. I am sympathetic to the Green Party and may vote that way in the end.

You want to hear someone talking about poverty? Or what it was like to be Black?
Check out the links I've been posting about this.

I've been arguing with avowed racists most of my day on various forums. Every racist I encounter that is opposed to Obama for whatever strange racist reason makes me more determined to point out that his opponents are making it clear why it is a big deal to realize that Obama does represent a change from the white status quo; I have been finding that young people are less racist than older people on average and the most racist, the KKK types, are often much older, and scary. I really think that Obama's campaign is about something much simpler than the laws he will pass, or how soon he will end the war in Iraq, but about how racially divided we are as a nation, as was evidenced by the Katrina affair. White people need to wake up. I worked in Oakland Unified schools for several years and I don't think white people, as a group, for the most part, have a clue what African Americans and other minorities go through in this country. Not a clue. If they did know, the ones who weren't Klansmen would want to put a stop to the outrageous injustice immediately. NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND is an outrage and it might not mean anything to you, but it means a lot to Michelle Obama. Have you bothered to listen to her speak? I posted a link for you. You and I probably come from really different life experiences. And yet, I don't think you are a racist, I think you mean well, but I've been dealing with racism on other forums that just blew my mind. And I realized this election could really shake up things and get people to really challenge themselves.

That's why I'm speaking up on behalf of critical thought, asking you to read Zunes article on Foreign policy, asking you to listen to Michelle Obama's speech. I've probably read more negative stuff about Obama than you have, but if you think I've missed something, post a link. I've looked at everything people have posted here, good and bad. Like I said, this is really interesting to me, the tension and promise that comes from hope that racism will be challenged, that the war will end quickly, that poor people will have some sympathy in high places, that we will support each other because it is in our mutual interests to do so.

Simmer down folks! I can be as cynical as the next person, but since we are operating in the here and now, and the here and now is pretty grim and getting more so by the day. So maybe those of us who see so clearly the limitations of each candidiate still running, and the limitations put on the race in the first place, maybe we should agree to disagree cordially.

I supported Dennis Kuchinich fervently---but alas he's been driven from the stage. Obama is still standing and is quite new to the DC game. So perhaps we who will likely never be satisfied with the ordinary fare offered at Restaurant USA Politics need to suspend disbelief for a time. He was a freshmen senator---then quickly decided to run for president----maybe he's laying low, maybe not.He wants to get elected afterall and he needs to get allot of different folks to vote for him--not just us old radical lefties.

All I know is young people are getting excited and if he disillusions them terribly, I will be sorely pissed off, but I'm for giving him a shot. Goddess help us all----we need someone who will stop the criminal divide and conquor tactics employed so successfully by the powerful elite. If he does nothing else other than making us feel less polorized as a people, maybe we have a prayerat coming together as a people and take our nation back from the creeps at the top of the pile.

I think Obama is already offering that, and he is winnning over any number of lifelong Repubs who are just as tired of the enemy patterning as some of us are. Please stop adding to an already destructive pattern in our collective consciousness by attacking each other in this forum. It just makes me want to weep. We will not have the change we are clamoring for, until we make changes in ourselves, and that can start right here in this forum. Be respectful of our differences and try to find something to be grateful for. AN attitude of gratitude is not a bad thing to cultivate.

Concert to Impeach...definately Willie Nelson, a Kucinich backer twice. Great idea.
And what ever happened to peace on Earth..a Willie Nelson song.

I'm sick of the racism--I WANT CHANGE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhqqOR68VSs

"Think I'll head for the hills my self."

And what do you intend to do in the hills, except hide from what will inevitably come after you?

"You can fence yourselves in. You cannot fence the world forever out."

Rebelnow, despite the nice satire, its allegory is flawed. The goals of reducing inequalities in education, health, and wages, of replacing a bellicose superpower policy with one of international law and negotiation, are very plain; the details remain to be worked out.

We make the trail by leaving the farm, by embarking on the unknown rather than by demanding security beforehand, not by staying on the farm. Staying put, or setting out only on an established route after it's safe to do so, is a sure recipe for complete defeat.

The wagon train just might go in a circle; but it might also break out of the trap.

One can pursue alternatives simultaneously -- support an Obama candidacy on the basis of possible progress while not putting all ones hopes in it.

Thanks rebelnow, I needed that!

Think I'll head for the hills my self.

"Hey y'all, what's all the ruckus?"

"New wagon train commin thru town, that's what!"

"So? Why's everyone so fired up?"

"Cause there's HOPE on board."

"What do you mean 'HOPE'?"

"Just HOPE, now you commin or not?"

"Well where's it goin?"

"Who cares as long as HOPE is on board! The guy leadin it says to trust him. He'll tell us when we git there, so you commin or not?"

"Ah hell I dunno, you know me, I don't trust them wagon trains, specially when folks get all fired up like that and don't even know where in hell it's goin. I think I'm gunna head into those hills for a spell. I don't like the looks of those clouds formin. Y'all try an be safe now, and good luck."

Well, I guess if Neil Young can buy into Bush's so-called War on Terror with "Let's Roll," then the folksinger for peace, Ms. Baez, can stump for the man who definitely WILL NOT get us "Out of Iraq NOW!".

Of course if Moon Unit were to endorse Mr. Obama I might have to reconsider my position, na ;-)

colleen February 4th, 2008 8:03 pm - Bla Bla "Take it all with a grain of salt…" Bla Bla.

Thats right colleen, 'cuase any one who does not believe is either diluted (deluded, diluted, whatever) or playing dirty politics. If they could only see the truth, they would believe. It is in part the quality of religious fervor that seems to effect so many of his supporter that bothers me. By the way I am an aging hippie my self, or at least I like to think of my self as one.

Oh and by the by Stiv old boy, Mr. Zappa was a musical genius, and was politically and socially astute. He was a master of lyrical quality in music and could make the most absurd words musically magnificent. But he wrote a lot of songs on many levels. I leave you with these lyrics. The song is Trouble Every Day from the 1966 album Freak Out.

Well I'm about to get sick
From watchin' my TV
Been checkin' out the news
Until my eyeballs fail to see
I mean to say that every day
Is just another rotten mess
And when it's gonna change, my friend
Is anybody's guess

So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day

Wednesday I watched the riot . . .
Seen the cops out on the street
Watched 'em throwin' rocks and stuff
And chokin' in the heat
Listened to reports
About the whisky passin' 'round
Seen the smoke and fire
And the market burnin' down
Watched while everybody
On his street would take a turn
To stomp and smash and bash and crash
And slash and bust and burn

And I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day

Well, you can cool it,
You can heat it . . .
'Cause, baby, I don't need it . . .
Take your TV tube and eat it
'N all that phony stuff on sports
'N all the unconfirmed reports
You know I watched that rotten box
Until my head begin to hurt
From checkin' out the way
The newsman say they get the dirt
Before the guys on channel so-and-so

And further they assert
That any show they'll interrupt
To bring you news if it comes up
They say that if the place blows up
They will be the first to tell,
Because the boys they got downtown
Are workin' hard and doin' swell,
And if anybody gets the news
Before it hits the street,
They say that no one blabs it faster
Their coverage can't be beat

And if another woman driver
Gets machine-gunned from her seat
They'll send some joker with a brownie
And you'll see it all complete

So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day

Hey, you know something people?
I'm not black
But there's a whole lots a times
I wish I could say I'm not white

Well, I seen the fires burnin'
And the local people turnin'
On the merchants and the shops
Who used to sell their brooms and mops
And every other household item
Watched the mob just turn and bite 'em
And they say it served 'em right
Because a few of them are white,
And it's the same across the nation
Black and white discrimination
Yellin' "You can't understand me!"
'N all that other jazz they hand me
In the papers and TV and
All that mass stupidity
That seems to grow more every day
Each time you hear some nitwit say
He wants to go and do you in
Because the color of your skin
Just don't appeal to him
(No matter if it's black or white)
Because he's out for blood tonight

You know we got to sit around at home
And watch this thing begin
But I bet there won't be many live
To see it really end
'Cause the fire in the street
Ain't like the fire in the heart
And in the eyes of all these people
Don't you know that this could start
On any street in any town
In any state if any clown
Decides that now's the time to fight
For some ideal he thinks is right
And if a million more agree
There ain't no Great Society
As it applies to you and me
Our country isn't free
And the law refuses to see
If all that you can ever be
Is just a lousy janitor
Unless your uncle owns a store
You know that five in every four
Just won't amount to nothin' more
Gonna watch the rats go across the floor
And make up songs about being poor

Blow your harmonica, son!

I have loved Joan Baez since I was in sixth grade. Since she was on the cover of Time Magazine. Since I stood behind her in a line for the bathroom at a KPFA benefit in Carmel Highlands. I hope Obama merits her support. I think he will. Let's do this!

Well I guess you told me Stiv old boy! Pardon the heck right out of me for dropping that L. The late Paul Wellstone certainly deserves better, even if the spell checker doesn't like it.

Just to be completely above board, I do not support Hillary Clinton. I did support Dennis Kucinich, and I might possibly have voted for Edwards, but was not totally convinced. I am a registered Green, and I will vote Green, because I believe in the Green party platform, unless of course someone whom I find unacceptable gets the Green nomination, Cynthia McKinney looks like a good bet though, not my first choice, but I'll take it and I will happily support and vote for her, with no illusions.

As for names, they mean little to me, neither does religion. That was not my point. My point is that, in my personal experience, seeing how easily manipulated the American electorate has been in the past, I do not believe Mr. Obama can win the General election, this country is not nearly as progressive as some on this board like to make out. If your issue is that you really really want a Democrat in the White House in 2008, no matter what, I think you should give that a good hard look.

It bothers me that the same people who will slam Hillary Clinton, and slander her with all sorts of unsavory sexist invectives, declaring her unelectable because her last name is Clinton, will turn right around and ignore the reality of what the Republican reactionaries, that are your opposition, will do with Barack Husein Obama and his Muslim heritage. I don't like it, but I see it as reality, and believe that it at least deserves consideration when making an informed choice. The Kennedy endorsement and the label of most liberal Senator in 2007 are not going to help him much in the General election either.

Finally I have yet to see anything from Mr. Obama to make me believe he is authentic, or truly progressive, or even potentially progressive. But I will watch the video you posted the link to, and I will continue to read, both sides of the discussion about him. In the end I expect to vote Green, cause I believe the two party system is a big part of the problem.

So go ahead and support Mr. Obama, perhaps he will get the nomination, and even the presidency, Deibold willing. And perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised, both by his election and by his actions once elected. He certainly will have quite a lot to live up to if he gets into office. But do not deny me my right to raise what I consider to be a valid and even important factor in this election.

People should keep in mind that there have been some supporters for Hillary who have been involved in dirty politics. One of Hillary's volunteers resigned because he was caught sending around the email saying Obama was a Muslim.

Some of the people posting here may have no interest in being truthful...and are only interested in stoping Obama...for whatever reason.

Take it all with a grain of salt...

Sometimes people are paid to post on the internet.

Typical of this kind of poster is to call another poster an aging hippy or lacking intelligence. They smear others.

I enjoy Joan Baez' music and care as much about her political opinions as I care for Kucinich's singing, or Gravel's dancing, or McKinney's piano playing, or... well, you get the idea.

Check out the Zunes article comparing Clinton to Obama on Foreign Policy. Zunes is no slouch. He's done his homework. There is a difference and it is worth noting. No one here is naive.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/04/6836/

dcbeltway February 4th, 2008 4:23 pm

"Agree with the Lorax and we'll probably be forced again to choose between 2 evils as the DLC has already crowned Hillary ughhhh."

Could the DLC be construed as the "Democrat's Lowest Committee?

Was there ever a time in your life when you didn't have to choose between 2 evils or not choose at all?

wow. where's the love? i have chosen Obama for my own reasons, but i would never put down someone who choses differently. i'm (barely) too young to appreciate Joan Baez's place in activist history, but appreciate that she is merely making a choice. vote for whomever you like and give everyone else the space to do the same. ironically, it's this sort of respect for the views of others that draws me to Barack.

So Chunga, you're voting for Clinton then. Ok. Whatever. And that would be WELLSTONE, btw. Names. They mean so much to you, maybe spelling should count for you as well. Vote for the candidate whose name seems the safest to you, the sort of name other people will vote for. Now that's sound reasoning. Very pragmatic. Your a real thinker, I can tell. You know who the opportunists are and you prefer an honest opportunist like Clinton--now that's solid. Go with that. Freedom of choice. Frank Zappa. Whatever. Don't eat the yellow snow.

"And before you go telling me how he is not a Muslim, bla ,bla, I did not say he is a Musilm, I said he has a Muslim heritage."

Spaniards of Obama's age could, by the same token, be said to have a fascist heritage; Spain has a much more recent right-wing extreme history, but after Aznar got too close to Bush, they kicked him out.

Anyone who would vote against Obama for having "a Muslim heritage" would vote against him for even more idiotic reasons. If that's enough to make him unviable as a candidate, then America isn't worth the trouble of voting anyway. I often feel that it isn't, that the country is ruined beyond repair; but if it isn't, it's going to require people who defy the odds and swim against the tide of despair who do the work.

Obama could well have succumbed to despair, and has refused to do so, and he's been serving at the center of the miasma. That puts him one up on me.

With all due respect, magicmary, appeal to emotions is not an argument either.
A professional artist's endorsement that makes you cry carries no weight with thinking people.
Cynicism has nothing to do with it. We just want to see his cards on the table and he refuses to show them.
He is status quo all the way, baby. Gads, and with Zbigniew Brzezinski advising him on foreign policy you can rest assured of continued interventionist policy abroad.

Meg - Looks like more info than I can absorb on Open Secrets. Thanks for the link. If you look at Obama's voting record at his senate website - obama.senate.gov - you'll see he put some time in on limiting what lobbyists were allowed to do legally.

Magicmary - Browse the forum on all the anti-clinton, pro-Obama articles here on CD over the past week. You will find a wealth of disturbing information about the realities of Mr. Obama's record and his financial backers.

Just as you base your acceptance of him, and are willing to place your hope in him, based on the fact that, as you said, "Barack made me cry the minute he said Yes We Can. My tears came from a very deep real place in both cases." I base my opinion in part on the urge I get to check my wallet and my watch every time I hear him speak. He strikes me as a huckster and an opportunist, you know like trying to claim the legacy of Paul Welstone. At least Hillary Clinton owns up to the fact that she is a centrist. Barack Obama runs as a centrist one day and pretends he is a progressive the next.

Mostly though, based on my own day to day experience with every day people, I believe him to be unelectable. I jsut do not see a man of Muslim Heritage, named Barack Husein Obama, being elected president of the USA in the midst of our great crusade, ooops, I did it again, I mean war on Terror.

And before you go telling me how he is not a Muslim, bla ,bla, I did not say he is a Musilm, I said he has a Muslim heritage.

Hank fur, I think he is our best bet. I too have reservations about his seeming support of Israel. However, after reading his books I feel he knows what he has to do to get elected, he is nothing if not a realist. I do think he will do what is right once elected. CFNI which says that don't make endorsements did a sort of endorsement of Obama, that's the group that puts the ads in the paper exposing AIPAC. There is absolutely no way, no way in hell a canidate can criticize Israel and even be in the running. I'm just worried that anyone who becomes Pres and cricizes Israel will be taken out by Mossad, they are rabid insane animals.

Hank Fur,

"What makes you think Barack will bring any of the changes we progressives want. Give me exact quotes on exact proposals. there is a weird lack of information coming from you people."

Obama made a strong statement in support of Palestinian rights before he made that statement. The previous seldom-since reported statement was rare in its description of Palestinians as victims rather than as predators just waiting for Israel to relax vigilance.

We forget just how hostile the media & political environment were in 2002 to anyone who remotely questioned the lies of Bush; anyone who argued online at the time that those WERE lies was treated with contempt and condescension, and outright savagery. Obama took the stand against the war when it could gain him nothing & when it took a good deal of courage to do so.

Do the subsequent votes mean he changed in the Senate, or only that he was acknowledging his status as a freshmamn senator?

It's a sure bet that Hillary will maintain the status quo, just with different people in charge. Obama is not a sure bet either way -- he might be a disappointment, but he might break the bank at Monte Carlo.

I agree with one thing the Obama's are saying: CHANGE COMES FROM THE BOTTOM UP:

Check out Michelle Obama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZiNtTq10i0
30 minutes into this LA rally... Again, it's about expectations and the action--you won't hear this kind of talk from the other MSM candidates. I have been puzzling over this tension.

No one believes Obama is a 'savior' and least of all the candidate. Does anyone even bother to listen to speeches? You don't have to believe it, but I recommend listening to know what is actually being said...

I grew up on Joan Baez's music. I love her dearly. Her desire to change this world for the better is genuine. But I believe she has made a terrible mistake with this endorsement. Obama is not the savior we've been waiting for.

Maybe there is no savior but all of us "little people" coming together in one powerful grassroots coalition and getting our country back.

With all due respect, my dear Chunga, you have not posted anything of substance to support your no vote on Obama. Vitriol and cynicism are not an argument. Please post a point by point rebuttal with footnotes that supports your vehmenence against Obama. A link to a teashirt company is not a footnote.

Political understanding requires more than analysis; it also requires the ability to recognize a crystallizing moment.

Aspirations & frustrations are both crystallizing around Obama in a way that they rarely do; this doesn't make the candidate a miracle worker, or some transcendent figure; it is abundantly clear that Obama does not regard America's military power or its penthouse prosperity the chief assets of the citizenry.

Not only has Joan Baez endorsed him, but the extremely private Robert de Niro has as well. Both performers have stood apart from the culture of celebrity for an authenticity which also is accountable.

These endorsements are not the standard coin of campaigns, the normal line-up of celebrities.

Obama is not the solution; but he is a catalyst, and we see it by responses across the generations. For Hillary, the campaign is a means to an end; for Obama, the campaign is a means to a beginning which will extend well beyond his personal candidacy.

Hey "realists," please tell us "purists": What makes you think Barack will bring any of the changes we progressives want. Give me exact quotes on exact proposals. there is a weird lack of information coming from you people.

I'll start with this:

March, 12, 2007: "[W]e must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs," he said. "This would help Israel maintain its military edge and deter and repel attacks from as far as Tehran and as close as Gaza."

Back to you.

magicmary -- take a look at OpenSecrets.org. Lots and lots of BIG MONEY there.

Dang holier than thou true believers!

So magicmary, are you saying that anyone who does not buy into the Obama feel good platitudes is self absorbed, and not truly interested in change? We who would put our efforts into, other, more genuine alternatives are on a fading road?

You've drunk the cool aid, so everyone who tells you that pleasant, twirly feeling is really just the mild hallucinogenic is spoiling your high?

Well, we shall see, we shall see. I hope no one laced that cool aid with strychnine, you could end up with a real bad trip.

And grandma, did you ever stop to think that others might have read Mr. Obama's book and been less than impressed? Leave Big Bad Bob's punctuation alone who asked you to check his work? This is a real time forum. Bad punctuation, grammar and splelling happen, live with it.

What a bunch of whiners! LEARN that the perfect really is the enemy of the good. That's life. If you really cared you would have read "The Audacity of Hope" long ago. That would tell you what you need to know about Obama - and he's our very best hope (and a good one) right now.

Special to Big Bad Bob - please check out the correct use of commas.

Where is the evidence that Obama is owned by big money?

magicmary -- give us one thing of substance about Mr. Obama -- directly attributeable to him, besides his adorable daughters. I think your tears came from a very real place that is desperate for change. Just don't be fooled here. He is owned and operated by BIG MONEY.

Lets get back to "A Concert To Impeach"
Spread the word on every blog you go to maybe it'll get caught in the wind.
I'm sure there will be plenty of entertainers wlling to take up this charge, REM, John Fogerty, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young.....

Maybe JB is coming out with a greatest hits CD and thinks that by backing Obama, she'll get some free PR?

Joan's a day late and a dollar short:"If anyone can navigate the contaminated waters of Washington, lift up the poor, and appeal to the rich to share their wealth, it is Barack Obama. If anyone can bring light to the darkened corners of this nation and restore our positive influence in world affairs, it is Barack Obama. If anyone can begin the process of healing and bring unity to a country that has been divided for too long, it is Barack Obama. It is time to begin a new journey."

She should have backed Edwards, who ran on public money, and was sunk by lack of coverage, but was the ture (and electable) change candidate. Now we're stuck choosing between two "corporatists"...or getting President McCain.

When I saw Joan (sometime in the 80's) she made me cry when she sang "No Woman No Cry". Barack made me cry the minute he said Yes We Can. My tears came from a very deep real place in both cases. To the cynical I say, get over yourselves. People who come from the heart are rising. Finally. To the cynical: Your old road is rapidly fading. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a-changing! ;-)

Wow, Joan Baez, Oooohhhh, Aaaahhh, Mmmmmm. Well that does it for me! I guess I can just give up thinking for myself now. I mean c'mon, Joan Baez, how can anyone dispute Barack Husein Obama's authenticity now?

Think I'll go by an new T-Shirt:
http://www.zazzle.com/2008_politics/product/235226717573250828

Obama has yet to say anything substantial that would make me think he was ready to be president.

Ted Kennedy is merely flattered by the attention the younger man is giving him, calling him a student. I would far rather have a teacher than a student.

What Ted calls "following him", I call sucking up.

Joan Baez wants the corporations to bake her bread.

Agree with the Lorax and we'll probably be forced again to choose between 2 evils as the DLC has already crowned Hillary ughhhh.

Pathetic in the extreme! You'd think a counterculture icon from the 60's would know better than most that it's the system that's got to be changed. Until then the resident of the white house will necessarily be the pawn of the power elite and powerless to do anything contrary to their plans. And Obama is so thoroughly status quo that he cannot possibly be contemplating anything that would quickly terminate his young political career. And "...appeal to the rich to share their wealth"??? I am truly astonished she said that. I feel sorry for people who suffer such delusions.

Big Bad Bob: My IQ is 26, do I have your permission to vote for Obama?

This endorsement is pathetic. Money really does change people. Hey, Joan, you need a reality check on your 'boy.' Constantly votes to fund the war. Talks about change, but doesn't EVER say what that change will be, and wouldn't hesitate for a moment to bomb Pakistan on 'reliable intel' about Osama. Is there really such a thing anymore as 'realiable intel?' PATHETIC.

A diamond among the rust!

Memories of when we were young and hope sprang eternal...

There's that left/right thing again. The aging hippies grew up in a world polarized in a very different way (US vs. Soviets). We're now in a global corporotized rich vs. poor, powerful vs. powerless world. It's time to leave left and right behind, as useless metaphorical terms serving nobody except those who need to keep populist expressions of democratic power divided.

Joan, you are a beautiful woman, but where have you been while Hillary has been working for woman and children.

The Clinton bashing turned me from ever, and I mean ever, voting for St. Obama. The Democratic party is so polarized now that all the Republican party will have to do is show up. . .

Who Obama surrounds himself with as advisers is critical. And groups like Move on and others on the left must develop support for him with the American people.

You need numbers. There must be large numbers of people who support the changes..and I am talking about

millions of people must support change to get it.

If Obama advocated change like Kucinich did, he would have been picked off by the wealthy special interests. Kucinich may not even be elected again.

If by luck and skill Obama is elected president that will be a time for people on the left to become extremely active to support change. And by even suggesting this idea here ..it will intensify the groups that do not want change to oppose Obama.

I have very serious reservations about Obama, but I love and respect Joan Baez. She is one of a kind.

I don't know about fitness. The office is so complex that the best president is the one who delegates best, surrounds him/herself with the best scholars/thinkers/hands-on people the country has to offer.

My reservations against Obama is that I don't know what he really stands for, and I have reason to believe it's the same old set of roadblocks, hoops, and derailings. Good verbiage, though. But I prefer getting hosed straight on the rocks, without a chaser to wash it down. If we're largely going to be getting a continuation of Bush politics (one-sided mideast policy, Iraq, no single-payer, no electoral reform, etc.) we may as well get it from the horse's mouth.

Obama is simply the lesser of the 4 evils. He is completely unfit to run the country, yet more fit than the 3 other bozos he's up against.

Yay! The Sweet Voice chooses Obama.
See this for a great song already - set to one of Obama's speeches by Will.I.am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY
check it out!

I finally feel some hope.
So what if its a dreamer's hope.
That's all I've got left now...

A CONCERT TO IMPEACH !!

Beautiful notion. Venue suggestions? Let's move on this before the buggers leave office.

This is Wonderful News !! I have always Loved her Music... This Has Made My Week.... Gran for Change in Wisconsin

Concert to Impeach now theres a great idea.

Many times I have dreamed of the Mother of All Cause Concerts with Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, the two remaining Beatles, the children or widows of the two others, Lisa Marie Presley, Arlo Guthrie and his kids (legacy of Woody, of course) and assorted other remnants of the 60s, all of whom would call America to action. I'd like to see The Concert for Impeachment but it's not a very catchy name. The Concert to Take Back America works better.

Joan Baez's endorsement of Obama will have to do for now.

I have always loved her music and now I love your choice for president. Your first endorsement in such a great career is very significant.

Hey, Joan..How about a song for Obama??

Dichterfeund, your points are well made, as usual, and I too want to see those same inequalities in education, health, wages, reduced as well as seeing the US foreign policy become based on international law and negotiation. Maybe Obama is the best hope there is for getting anywhere near those goals. I'm just very suspicious that once one walks through the treacherous doors of power they will become servants of the established order. And we all know what that Order is at this moment. Can Obama put a stop to the insanity? Or even put the brakes on it? Maybe he can. Maybe you are right that it's a galvanizing moment, that if enough people get on board he will be forced to uphold his original convictions and be the servant for the people, and not the MIC.

Foreign reporters seem to be amazed at the level of excitement, worldwide, for a potential Obama presidency. So what the hell, maybe it's a movement? If people like you, and starofthesea, and Joan Baez are supporting him then maybe I'll just sit here and think a spell, before I go an run off into them thar hills.