CIA Chief to Drag White House Into Torture Cover-Up Storm
The CIA chief who ordered the destruction of secret videotapes recording the harsh interrogation of two top Al-Qaeda suspects has indicated he may seek immunity from prosecution in exchange for testifying before the House intelligence committee.
Jose Rodriguez, former head of the CIA’s clandestine service, is determined not to become the fall guy in the controversy over the CIA’s use of torture, according to intelligence sources.
It has emerged that at least four White House staff were approached for advice about the tapes, including David Addington, a senior aide to Dick Cheney, the vice-president, but none has admitted to recommending their destruction.
Vincent Cannistraro, former head of counterterrorism at the CIA, said it was impossible for Rodriguez to have acted on his own: “If everybody was against the decision, why in the world would Jose Rodriguez - one of the most cautious men I have ever met - have gone ahead and destroyed them?”
The tapes recorded the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, two suspected Al-Qaeda leaders, over hundreds of hours while they were held in secret “ghost” prisons. According to testimony from a former CIA officer, Zubaydah was subjected to waterboarding, a form of torture that simulates drowning, and “broke” after 35 seconds. He is believed to have been interrogated in Thailand. The tapes were destroyed in 2005. Both men are now held in Guantanamo Bay.
The House intelligence committee has subpoenaed Rodriguez to appear for a hearing on January 16. Last week the CIA began opening its files to congressional investigators. Silvestre Reyes, a Democrat who is chairing the committee, has said he was “not looking for scapegoats” - a hint to Rodriguez that he would like him to talk.
Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer, believes the scandal could reach deep into the White House. “The CIA and Jose Rodriguez look bad, but he’s probably the least culpable person in the process. He didn’t wake up one day and decide, ‘I’m going to destroy these tapes.’ He checked with a lot of people and eventually he is going to get his say.”
Johnson says Rodriguez got his fingers burnt during the Iran-contra scandal while working for the CIA in Latin America in the 1980s. Even then he sought authorisation from senior officials. But when summoned to the FBI for questioning, he was told Iran-contra was “political - get your own lawyer”.
He learnt his lesson and recently appointed Robert Bennett, one of Washington’s most skilled lawyers, to handle the case of the destroyed interrogation tapes. “He has been starting to get his story out and was smart to get Bennett,” said Johnson.
The Justice Department has launched its own inquiry into the destruction of the tapes. It emerged yesterday that the CIA had misled members of the 9-11 Commission by not disclosing the existence of the tapes, in potential violation of the law. President George W Bush said last week he could not recall learning about the tapes before being briefed about them on December 6 by Michael Hayden, the CIA director.
“It looks increasingly as though the decision was made by the White House,” said Johnson. He believes it is “highly likely” that Bush saw one of the videos, as he was interested in Zubaydah’s case and received frequent updates on his interrogation from George Tenet, the CIA director at the time.
It has emerged that the CIA did preserve two videotapes and an audiotape of detainee interrogations conducted by a foreign government, which may have been relevant to the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the Al-Qaeda conspirator.
The CIA told a federal judge in 2003 that no such recordings existed but has now retracted that testimony. One of the tapes could show the interrogation of Ramzi Binalshibh, a September 11 conspirator, who was allegedly handed to Jordan for questioning.
Video: Joe Biden on the torture tape scandal and Iran
Video: Senator Kennedy on CIA tape destruction
Video: Reuters report on CIA torture tape destruction
© 2007 The Times Online
No Immunity!! This guy’s a crinimal from the Reagan days. But again, this item is from a UK news source. Where is this item in the US MSM? Nowhere is my presumption.
Oh happy day. ___ I do hope Rodriguez has a secure hideout.
This reminds me of the ‘Pelican Brief’ story. Hope it has a like ending.
Of course if and when things get hot in the White House, Bush may inact a terror attack someplace, then of course Hell will break loose and our sitting devils can begin the purge.
Hi Karlof, I haven’t seen much about it in the newspapers or on the TV news either, but it has been well covered on CSPAN. Conyers has been conducting a Congressional hearing on the issue and the nooses are being readied. If Rodriguez tells the truths, he can have immunity and a box of chocolate covered cheeries as far as I’m concerned.
Cheney, Rove and Bush aren’t the only ones who know how to dance in DC, and It looks like a lot of the established in-croud there are ‘totally’ fed up with this administration and they’re going to light some fuses and pull some plugs.
Yes, indeed..you can bet something is in the works to put this in the background. The dominoes are falling and they will do anything to save their butts, including another false flag operation. Please be aware and stay awake.
It appears as if the operatives who actually carry out the dirty work have decided to practice that time-honored tactic: CYA (Cover Your Ass). What is surprising is that did not happen earlier. What is tragic is that they did not sabotage this amok administration earlier. What is sad is that nothing has been learned from this by the American public.
This is one great holiday gift. I’ll send him a whole carton of chocolates if he can bring these criminals down. I absolutely do hope he can keep himself and his family safe. I put nothing beyond the criminals. I’m gonna wrap this guy in constant white light starting right now.
“Please be aware and stay awake.”
Yes. It may be difficult to move around soon - Isn’t there a law going into effect at end of January, whereby permission has to be sought from Homeland Security before any and all air flights within or from the US? That is, permission to travel must be sought by all persons?
See “Homeland Security’s Domestic Travel Permits” - Daily Kos, Sept 26th, 07.
The timing of this event is intended for inaction. This is another of a string of various legal black holes into which the White House should fall into, but with enough spin, they will squeal out, again and again and again.
I want to see Bush tried for war crimes and executed, simple as that, don’t you? This probable authorization of destruction of the tapes would have been bad enough for any other administration, but this is small beans… AGAIN. The depth and width of moral and fiscal corruption of this administration exceeds belief.
Again, get Bush up for war crimes, and work for his anti-Constitutional policies, invasion of a sovereign country and work for his guilt and execution. My basement wall is available for use.
I’m waiting for this headline:
Jose Rodriguez, former head of the CIA’s clandestine service found dead in remote park in Washington D.C. with his hands tied behind his back and a bullet hole through the back of his head. Mr. Rodriquez’s death has been ruled suicide by the authorities
I had not heard that one VOICE. But that’s the type of thing Hitler did and Hitler is not dead. I don’t believe Bush and Cheney have their ducks all lined up yet. Rove ran and many others jumped ship. We may not have too much to worry about, except Bush is a psycopath and ya never know for sure.
To Ask For an Investigation, Go To:
Wexlerwantshearings.com
Hi Kem,
I am more optimistic about the power of truth.
If Bush did try to pull off an emergency rule with a violent pretext as he has the power to do, I just don’t think that after all these revelations, not many would be ready to follow his orders.
Hitler’s power came from Bush family investments in Germanys rise and Hitler had a lot of loyal followers… I don’t see Bush as having any real power now. Hitler was not a Lame Duck who had the Gestapo turning on Him like Bush does now…
Like I have always said “Folks, we are winning now”.
VOICE2 et al: Please tell me how I can access “Homeland Security’s Travel Permits” on Daily Kos. I’ve tried the “search” for “one quarter” which would include today, but 0 stories or comments are found. Thanks.
“Yes. It may be difficult to move around soon - Isn’t there a law going into effect at end of January, whereby permission has to be sought from Homeland Security before any and all air flights within or from the US? That is, permission to travel must be sought by all persons?
See “Homeland Security’s Domestic Travel Permits” - Daily Kos, Sept 26th, 07.”
Dear commondreamer, you must have been reading some old copy of Reader’s Digest, all my childhood that magazine told me that things were like that…..in the USSR!
Felices fiestas para todos, anyway!
This guy may be the John Dean figure we’ve been waiting for…. but the political culture of the American Empire has changed so much, I wonder if even a direct implication of Bush or Cheney (or both) would have any noticeable effect.
I think you are right JIM, we’ll see. We’ll se how far this Congressional investigation goes also. We’ve been stonewalled several other times by Cheney. Like you, I have a good feeling about this one. We do have to remember, a trapped rat can be a dangerous creature.
Conservative authoritarians, reactionaries, fearmongering, war-mongering greedheads in power are going at each other throats and deserting the sinking ship. ‘Twas ever thus. But the oligarchy sees opportunity in chaos…
NATE W: Yep, and what about sheer cowardice? How many on the inside of this pro-torture administration bother to step out of line and blow the whistle before their own cover is blown?
I just ran to the supermarket to pick up an extra item for dinner and a very angelic child sitting in the card before me started singing, “He knows when you’ve been bad or good, so be good for Christmas sake.” And I thought, how young these messages of being good to get rewards start; how the notion of “being watched” to prove that goodness is inculcated at such tender ages. Perfect start for a nation of would-be authoritarians… only it ain’t Santa watching.
I have to agree with Kem Patrick. This guy is no saint, but if he could really give us the Vice-President, who is all over this - as if counsel for a guy like Cheney has free reign and acts on his own initiative - then gifve this guy a get out of jail free card and let him sing with full orchestral backing.
You have to wander why the tapes exist in the first place.
1. Training videos for new recruits into interrogation methods. But this article mentions this guy gave out cart-fulls of bogus info. It would really be an example of why torture fails.
2. To show the Vice-President and President, Rummy, etc., so that they can watch it and feel like steel-guts cowboy marshals bringing justice to evil-doers. Wouldn’t transcripts of interrogation sessions be a safer and easier way to pass on information for the Presidential Brief? There is a morbid hue to why the tapes were made.
Travel Permits info (lobster et al)
Original was in Daily Kos, Mon 17th Sept and was called:
“The Nightmare of DHS´s *Secure Flight* ”
Here is a link from that time, including through to official document Federal Registry:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6892
Re: Travel Permits
Excerpt:
“Beginning in February 2008, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will implement their ¨Advance Passenger Information System (APIS),¨ the gist of which is that you will need permission from the United States Government to travel on any air or sea vessel that goes to, from or through the U.S.
“The travel companies will not be able to issue a boarding pass until you are cleared by DHS. This applies to ALL passengers, US citizens and visitors alike. And how do you get said permission to travel? That´s for your government to know and you to never find out.
Now TSA proposes to do for domestic travel what APIS will do for international routes. That´s what I said: the new TSA rule would require that you obtain PERMISSION to travel within the U.S.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6892
Maybe an honest whistle blower, if Rodrigues performs, can expose the coverup.
I just hope we look back decades from now and say how the hell did we ever sink that low as a country instead of “ah, those were the good old days”
Cross your fingers folks.
Merry Fitzmas! Er, I mean Christmas!!!
Our current President like his father is a CIA officer or a CIA asset. Bush jr. has committed a felony by not revealing his status in the CIA before he ran for political office. It is a violation of the NSA code and the CIA charter for a CIA officer can not run for political officer unless he reveals his status as a covert CIA officer. It is considered treason. Everybody knows his father was the director of the CIA; but no body knows of his sons role in the CIA. Bush Jr. used Operation Mocking Bird, a CIA program that has thousands of media journalist on the pay role of the CIA to help him get elected. Bush Jr used thousands of former CIA officers and military intelligence officers to help him run his campaign. Bush is unelectable. He had to cheat to get elected. He committed treason by using ex-CIA officers and assets to defeat VP AL Gore. He gave democracy a black eye!
If a “false flag” is in the works, Dubya better watch his skinny behind. He’s just the big name front man, and a lame duck. Cheney is the insider. Imagine him as the Decider!
The jig might be up for all the world’s Bushbots. Better late than never.
I love the way this is shaping up! Rodriguez spills the frijoles, points the finger directly at the White House.
Could 2008 bring us a big carload of justice at last? I’m sure hoping for it. Impeach, impeach, impeach!
One, two, many Watergates. This may be the most criminal administration ever, according to experts such as Chomsky, Chalmers Johnson, John Dean, Mario Cuomo, Bruce Fein, Bill Moyers, Greg Palast, and so many others.
Give him immunity. If he gives up Addington, that gives up Cheney and likely Bush and a huge part of his staff.
What he’s ‘determined to do’ is to keep stirring-up this false-flagged Charade (which he probably helped devise as an ‘opinion/damage-control’, initially — as only one means for shared Pretense that such limited-torture is ‘the Norm’, and only-applied to ‘the usual suspects’ of real-Interest).
The ‘reality’ is that never-destroyed and actual/common-tapes of multitudes of many less-’interesting suspects’ would so-horrify all sane-citizens still left in the US that they’ll NEVER be reviewed by any not already made-’Realist’ within the ultra-Nationalistic/insane ‘community’ he slithers-through on a daily basis…
One of the great undiscovered and undiscussed scandals (and there are so many!) of the bush administration is the destruction of documents and evidence of criminal activity.
Post Watergate law prohibits this and I believe it was determined presidential documents belong to the people (us!). But alas, there seems to be no recognition of this by the monarch and his hench(wo)men….. and where is the congress and the courts?
The truth, even when crushed to the ground, shall rise, for the lie cannot live for ever. Martin Luther King
Do we really trust the “House intelligence committee” to have the integrity and competence to perform? Larger things have come and gone, and I expect some noise for a few days/weeks, some insider deals, and perhaps scootery pardons. We can then move on to the next buglaboo, and forget this one.
when people go insane, they usually say: its the drugs.
i believe the washington elite are fed drugs to stay compliant.
do what i say or you dont get the sugar pill!!!
We’ll see.
Wonder how long before Rodriguez gets told about his pardon if he shuts up?
I don’t believe he’s in danger of needing a pardon Kris. I believe he’s doing this, not not to save his ass, but to save our country. Hope I’m right about that. He don’t have to talk and tell the truth, he’s a very smart cookie, I’d be amazed if anyone has anything on him.
edit?
Kem, I hope so, I really do. It just seems every time the cabal seems to be poised for ruin, they pressure everyone into shutting up. Libby is a prime example…Of course, this guy could be the exception, let’s hope so.
slaaughter me a bull, comrades!!!!!!!!!! Happy new3 yearss
That is indeed possible CARU. I have personally known several people who got on cocaine. They did NOT care about ANYTHING else. __ When they had it, they were fine, after their high wore off, they were horrible, miserble, a totally dIfferent person, with a personality of a Cheney, and they cared only for the time of day when they could snort another line or two.
Nothing on this planet, their family, their job, heath, their diet, nothing mattered to them whatsoever, except the “White Lady”. I have seen a highly respected owner of a four star restaurant, end up living under a bridge in his Cadillac, a broken half mad human, the shell of a once good and successful businessman.
I have seen a young man who had a pro football career end, before he finished college, the once most highly recruited lineman in the country became a homeless bum. He said to me one day, after refusing to take a drug test and having to give up his scholarship, “Kem, I can’t help it, cocaine is all I want.” One of the saddest days of my life seeing him drive off. The last I heard of him, he was serving a long prison term for dealing drugs.
Many who end up totally broke, out of a job, can’t afford the powder anymore, prepared to commit suicide will seek treatment. Those who can afford it, or have ready access to it, don’t bother, they have ALL that they desire.
So, if some powerful person in DC has unlimited access to cocaine, and has representatives hooked on it, (and it has been proven that one can be hooked after the first snort), they can easily control those elected. So, CARU, you have a reasonable thought there. A bunch of melowed out Congress persons, who are doing little, except loafing around waiting for their next hit. It may be so. It certainly would not surprise me at all. It’s sad to even think it is possible.
edit?
I keep wondering why the press doesn’t call these things “The Torture Tapes.”
And it is REALLY amusing to still read the line about waterboarding that it is “simulated drowning.”
It is NOT simulated drowning. It uses real water, real nostrils, real epiglottis, real lungs, and lungs filled with the water. It is DROWNING, but a possibility of reprieve or resuscitation..
During WW 2, waterboarding was know as the Chinese water TORTURE. Torture is torture and is never to be acceptable for any reason, by any decent human being.
I’m not getting my hopes up. We all thought the Downing Street Memo was going to take this prick down.
Probably no sheet of paper carries the requisite weight at this stage in the endgame.
I’ll second that.
I find it interesting that it’s the “hispanics” who are the fall guys for Bush and Co.
First Speedy Gonzalez sped off into the ether–now this guy.
Ether.
Kem, all we big kids (ages 8 through 17) at the time of WWII thought that Chinese Water Torture was placing someone’s forehead under a dripping faucet, where the water would drip until it drove the person crazy. Were we wrong?
KEM and CARU: Absolutely agree about the drugs. Wouldn’t doubt for a moment that many in DC are using. I don’t think it’s the cocaine, though. It’s the other ‘O’. You know, the two O’s that make the world go round - oil and opium.
Ever wonder why this country hasn’t come out far more harshly against Burma and China and their human rights violations?
Golden Triangle anyone? Yep, that’d be the highest poppy producing area in the world (though second now to Afghanistan - post U.S. invasion to not find Osama).
The current war for Oil was history’s war for Opium.
No LOBSTER, the adults who knew the truths were wrong to not fully explain such things to us kids and our parents. There are several types of Chinese water torture, some more severe than others. Of course at that time we kids were not informed about sex either, the Clinton Caper would NEVER have hit the news.
Torture was not acceptable then for any Americans, Americans were the good guys and proud to be Americans. Remember that? Our school history books were not so hot, ___ and they still aren’t.
IOWAIRISH. Yes, the fact that the poppy fields in Afganastan are being protected by our troops is known to be so. Tilman was going to spill the beans about that, __ of course he was denied doing so, he evidently talked to the wrong people over there.
Any mind altering drug that is addictive would do the job. I understand Cocaine is the choice of the elite, the HARMLESS drug. It may be harmless if one has a suffecient lifelong supply, so they are always in a good mood and have an elevated sense of awareness. Of ocurse if the price and quanity is controlled, like diamonds are, then people who have become addicted, can easily be controlled. Several years ago, a good friend of mine, a police officer, told me that a $500 a day habit for cocaine was not a big habit. Cocanie is not cheap, so crack was invented. Of course crack can be far from harmless and is for the low class swine, not the ELITE.
I don’t believe Mr. Rodriguez is going to be a fall guy for anyone MOONRAVEN. He’s a fine man, a strong man and it shows in that picture of him. It does not matter what nationality he is either, he’s as good as any other human.
As what now seems to be always, Kem, we are NOT COMMUNICATING.
I was pointing out that the Bush Gang had DELIBERATELY selected “hispanics” to serve as what we call “sacrifical goats” here in Mexico.
Whether they choose to fulfill their role is not the issue I was raising–nor whether they were or are fine men.
Racism in action is what is the issue for ME.
Well MOONRAVEN, since you brought it up, racism was your issue this morning on another site, where you refered to whites as no good Gringos. Sort of humerous to me, for an American Indian to use the insulting Mexican term, but, whatever makes your heart thump.
And your post here today said nothing about the Bush Gang had deliberatly selected Hispanics to serve as sacrificial goats. It was strictly a raciest remark. You were not raising any issue you now claim to be. And it’s not just Hispancis Bush has sold out, there were many others, including Valorie Plame, Joe wilson, etc. A long list of many different nationalities.
So don’t attempt to keep playing the race card, MOONRAVEN it don’t fly. Furthermore, your constant attacks on me personally, for no good or logical reason are fruitless, but it’s a free country, blast on.
Right–THIS post says NOTHING about hispanics being selected as sacrificial goats:
“I find it interesting that it’s the “hispanics” who are the fall guys for Bush and Co.”
Fall guy equals sacrificial goat. DUH.
And you are either deliberately obtuse or perverse, but more than anything else a liar, as I have never used the term “no good gringos” in my life.
In your case, however, I am willing to make an exception.
At some point you may wish to brag to us about how much you are being paid by the rightwingers to troll on progressive internet sites, KEM, since there are some folks who have actually done that for free.
You might also care to add your own name to the list of folks who have been sold out by Bush.
You voted for him expecting a piece of the pie?
Just for the record, this is the post from the Lakota thread about which you deliberately LIED:
“Gringo is a generic word used here in Latin America to identify folks from the US.
If you choose to believe that its use is depreciative, I suggest you examine your own conscience, as your behavior has been shameful on this thread.
Your apology was not an apology at all–just a justification of your obnoxious imperialist behavior.
And my PhD in English obtained from University of Massachusetts in 1972 does not obligate me to find your comments humorous, nor to accept your left-handed “apology”. You are a very hostile person, as well as disrespectful.
As a Native American, I believe I can safely say that we do not want YOUR SYMPATHY. And as for me, I will be happy to let you keep your hypocritical shame, too.”
This is my last communication to you: Take your anti-white propaganda to somebody else.
You failed to mention the other post where you used the term Gringo, directed in a nasty manner at a white person. And the term is not just a generic word used in Latin America to identify folks in America. I live very near the Mexican border and it is also a racial term used in derision agaist white foks, by racially motivated people on both sides of the border, American Latinos and otherwise. Like you used it.
You have said here twice that I’m a liar and a troll. I never lie and I do believe that any who are at all familiar with me, know for certain I am not a troll. I had nothing bad to say about the Indians in that thread, I fully support them, always have.
Nevertheless, you attacked me for no reason at all. The only reason I can see, is that there are many new and old trolls here now, who do attempt to start arguments with bloggers, screw up the thread and cause friction amongst us. That is what you indeed do.
I primarily come here to learn from others. I offer opinions, I don’t always agree with others, but never attack any first like you have done. I often reply to ones like you, for if one accepts such crap, they deserve it. You cannot deny what you first posted here, no matter what you now write to deny it. It’s there for any who wish to scroll back and read it. As far as never replying to me again, That’s great, thank you. Troll on.
Oh, and I never voted for Bush. Your ass-umptions are self evident. I worked for the John Edwards campaign and the Gore campaign. And I’m fighting the Bush administration, ___daily. You should have taken common sense, reading comp and honesty courses in college and recieved a passing grade if you did. You are seriously lacking in those attributes. ~~Throw ya later~~.
Alignment is not agreement
Conflict is necessary for growth
Tolerance and compassion are but refinements of love
Grace and forgiveness are devine
KEM — please consider that MOONRAVEN has lifelong lupus, and literally you may have stumbled and stepped on one of her remaining healthy nerves.
This woman (my observations) is driven, passionate, committed and handles some issues in a somewhat short manner, as she is (and has been) running on fumes. I suspect that she also is an extremely generous giver, for all besides herself, and that this self-sacrificial quality and tendency leaves her quite vulnerable to protect her already ravaged corporeal identity.
Let us recognize (and celebrate) the LIGHT within each of our fellow travelers herein, so as to learn how to better find a path through our darkness. To focus on errant and irrelevant vagaries is the often fruitless left-brain’s temperament to organize and critique reality as reductionist and linear - while the full circle of life is best sensed holistically in parallel, through our enriching right brains.
Don’t be fooled, she’s a plant, there are several here now, they all work together. Some start off beng nice guys and after they have shown so, they begin to mole under a coulpe of the old timers to cause friction, if they succeed after awhile this site will be mostly trolls. They each use several different names here. Joe one day and Herby 005 the next. You can spot them by their style and voice.
Kem - Are you serious?
I’m not trying to start an argument, but I’m pretty sure moonraven has been here longer than you.
Plus, what does it mean to be an “old timer”?
I could ask a few more questions or put out a few more opinions, but sometimes I think it is better to keep some personal things out of public conversations. Hm, I quess that is another opinion. Later.
Maybe your’re right
Oh no kem i am not right. I know that.
She started in April 07.
She sure went off on me with a lot of garbage for no reason. I posted a comment that maybe we could send in another Custer, we have lots of them. __ Meaning, Custer got his ass whipped good. That’s all I meant in a sarcastic manner about our government, and then later I apologized if it had hurt any felings.
I didn’t expect the hatred that resulted. But I had a suspicion that she may be a plant to cause friction. I and some others who have blogged frequently and for a long time are getting it often lately and many have stopped posting. __ Check it out. BTW I meant correct, not right to the right.
Also, I’m serious about these plants workng together in offices. They do attempt to screw up good threads by starting arguments, or putting in comments that make a progressive thinking person appear to be stupid. New readers get digusted with us and don’t return. It’s a Karl Rove, Repuublican type of operation and it works. In politicl campaigns it’s called Rat Fu##ing.
In fact, you seem to fit the MOI. Are you by chance?
edit
Kem, if I was a “smarty pants”, I’d just repeat back to you what you said but with a smirky voice….
I may be a smarty pants, i’m not sure. What about you?
edit smedit
Yeah I’m a ’smarty pants’ sometimes, sorry.
I know we have trolls and it was so strange to hear her write that I was a Bushie and a liar etc. I always respected her.
Hey KEM PATRICK, I’m not sure whether you want me to try to get the last word or whether you are waiting to see what happens…
Regardless, what happens is going 2 happen.
We can agree on that can’t we?
I don’t know what you mean abot what hjappens? I was just ramblin, I felt bad about the harsh words that’s all.
In the words of that icon of the US justice system, Robert Blake:
“Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.”
all i can say is i have not done the crime….
i’m just my small little “slimey” self…
there you go…sorry, but that is
it…moonraven…you are
amazing to me.
bufflao:
I don’t know why you assumed you should feel guilty for the crime of violating the social contract committed by Kem.
Is there something I am missing?
I don’t think so….I’m sorry, but I’m about to be spent…I can’t give any more without taking away from my close family…all i can say is i try to have empathy, and I’m sorry if this rings empty to you….but i’m spent for now.
Hey, buffalo, I am not asking for anything except civility here–certainly not empathy, and I am not at all sure that I am willing to be all that empathetic with strangers in Internet.
You are not the problem, so far as I can tell.
But I did notice that the expert in satire/sarcasm and senses of humor, KEM, completely missed that of my reference to Robert Blake.
Too subtle, I guess.
Who’s have thunk it?
Yeah I just read it, and no it didn’t perk me, it wasn’t an opinion I agreed with. I thunk it was worse than my sarcaasm.
It is truly sad to see a person with a high degree of intellect and education, one who was respected by everyone here, suddenly begin to lose their good soul. You have not just gotten into it with me in the same mean spirited words, using ‘Gringo’ in a derogitory way againfo rjust one example and for no fair reason at all.
You have done it with at least three others today on another thread. Rebel Farmer was shocked at how you wrote to those others, and asked you to cool it. Buffalo Ken here was amazed, he could not believe how you wrote to him.
You really should consider seeing a doctor, maybe the water there is worse than you realize and or, maybe your thyroid is acting up, that can make people irrational. Whatever it is, you are not the same person you were a month ago. You likely have not seen it in yourself yet, but when you do, I hope it isn’t too late for treatment. You certainly seem to be a fine woman when your mind is not messed up.
Maybe that hammock you say you sleep on is screwing up the nerves in your neck. Try sleeping on a board for a few nights and change your water sources. __ Good luck, you are going to need some of that too.
~The rotton Gringo~
Morning has broken and it feels good to be alive and refreshed.
Moonraven - I agree. Having empathy for the “wispy individual entities” here whom we only know through words might be too much to ask for, but an expectation of civility does seem fair and all should try to behave accordingly.
I have my own sensibilities regarding many of the posters here, but if I ever post again, I plan on keeping these personal opinions to myself. My experience has been when things get personal it tends to degrade the entire conversation.
Yep, and the Kill the Messenger strategy seems much overused in regard to my person.
Folks in the US don’t want to hear any bad news? Fine.
I am certainly willing to flush both them and their supposedly perfect democracy into the awaiting bowels of history.