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Global Crises are Spiritual: A Time for Awakening
In modern economic thinking, greed and selfishness are upheld as guiding the ‘invisible hand’ of the market and are therefore exempt from moral consideration. It is time for us to redefine our values and build a just economy for the common good
Many sages, philosophers and theologians throughout history have reminded us that there are two forces at work in society, the material and the spiritual. If either of these two is neglected or ignored they will appear to be at odds with one another: society will inevitably becomes fragmented, divisions and rifts will manifest themselves with increasing force and frequency.
"Above all else," writes Mofid, "The purpose of the economy is to provide basic human needs as well as the means of establishing, maintaining, and nurturing human relationships while dealing justly with future generations (sustainability) and ethically with all life on earth (ecological balance)." (Image: Creative Commons by Massimo Valiani)
It is clear that this is exactly what has happened today. We have a situation of disequilibrium and disharmony. Only the reawakening of the human spirit will save us from our own worst extremes. Physical wealth must go hand in hand with spiritual, moral and ethical wealth.
Since the collapse of the financial, banking and economic sectors, many articles, papers and books have been written on why such scandals took place, on what went wrong. However, these analyses, by and large, are mostly on the economics of the crisis and in turn suggest economic- only- solutions. But as we can most clearly see, the more economic tools are employed, the deeper the crisis becomes.
Those with a more spiritual disposition, with an eye on common sense, all agree on the role of one vital element in all these crises: dishonesty fuelled by greed. We forget at our own peril that honesty and greed are essentially spiritual and moral issues. Furthermore, they know that no part of human life can operate without these values, not least the sphere of business, commerce, media and government.
The greed-motivated neo-liberal capitalist world is out of control. Perhaps it is time for us to redefine our values by acknowledging that the marketplace is not just an economic sphere, ‘it is a region of the human spirit’.
Although self-interest and economic considerations are an important source of human motivation, driving the decisions we make in the marketplace every day, those decisions nevertheless have a moral, ethical and spiritual dimension, because each decision we make affects not only ourselves but others too.
Spiritual Crisis: What is to be done?
Living happily is “the desire of us all, but our minds are blinded to a clear vision of just what it is that makes life happy”. The root of happiness is ethical behaviour, and thus the ancient idea of moral education and cultivation, is essential to the ideal of joyfulness.
We must recognise that our economic problems are closely linked to our spiritual problems and vice versa. Moreover, socio-economic justice, peace and harmony will come about only when the essential connection between the spiritual and practical aspects of life is recognised and much valued. A necessary step in this journey of self-discovery is to discover, promote and live for the common good. The principle of the common good reminds us that we are all really responsible for each other - we are our brothers' and sisters' keepers - and must work for social conditions which ensure that every person and every group in society is able to meet their needs and realise their potential.
In order to arrive at such understanding, my first recommendation is for us to embody the core values of the Golden Rule (Ethic of Reciprocity): “Do unto others as you would have them to do to you”. This in turn will prompt us on a journey of discovery, giving life to what many consider to be the most consistent moral teaching throughout history.
In all, the focus of economics should be on the benefit and bounty that the economy produces, on how to let this bounty increase, and how to share the benefits justly among the people for the common good, removing the obstacles that hinder this process. Above all else the purpose of the economy is to provide basic human needs as well as the means of establishing, maintaining, and nurturing human relationships while dealing justly with future generations (sustainability) and ethically with all life on earth (ecological balance).
Here we should recall the wisdom of Adam Smith, “father of modern economics”, who was a great moral philosopher first and foremost. In 1759, sixteen years before his famous Wealth of Nations, he published The Theory of Moral Sentiments, which explored the self-interested nature of man and his ability nevertheless to make moral decisions based on factors other than selfishness. In The Wealth of Nations, Smith laid the early groundwork for economic analysis, but he embedded it in a broader discussion of social justice and the role of government. Today we mainly know only of his analogy of the ‘invisible hand’ and refer to him as defending free markets; whilst ignoring his insight that the pursuit of wealth should not take precedence over social and moral obligations, and his belief that a ‘divine Being’ gives us ‘the greatest quantity of happiness’.
We are taught that the free market as a ‘way of life’ appealed to Adam Smith but not that he distrusted the morality of the market as a morality for society at large. He neither envisioned nor prescribed a capitalist society, but rather a ‘capitalist economy within society, a society held together by communities of non-capitalist and non-market morality’. As it has been noted, morality for Smith included neighbourly love, an obligation to practice justice, a norm of financial support for the government ‘in proportion to [one’s] revenue’, and a tendency in human nature to derive pleasure from the good fortune and happiness of other people.
In summary, with each passing day, it is also increasingly evident in every corner of our world that great change is upon us and that by standing together in mutual respect, honour and dignity for one another, we will answer this call with creative, viable and sustainable solutions.
We must take the necessary steps now to reach out to our fellow humans and extend our hand in forgiveness, acceptance and genuine friendship. Our choices will be made from compassion while embracing the richness of our amazing diversity. The love and acceptance we have for ourselves will be the source of our strength to assist others. Together we can and will make a difference through dialogue of civilisations and consideration of the common good.
Look around you; do you see an alternative path? In the wise words of the Persian sage and poet, Rumi, “Out beyond ideas of wrong-doing and right-doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.”
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258 Comments so far
Show AllOut beyond good and evil - now that is a goal!
It is time to rebuild with a cooperative economy but for the wholly material reason that it is what people in need want, is to live in a more humane society with justice, and empowerment for all people. Religion and "spirituality" has done nothing but harm that goal by distracting people from militant activism towards navel gazing bullshit about pretend "energies."
Your narrow-minded, self-limiting prejudices become you. And your arrogance, coupled with your hostility for this subject matter, is just over the top, as if you, the great Guitarist (who posts here under a variety of screen names) can trump The Masters in what's been revealed to them (and passed on) in consciousness.
I once dated a construction worker who stated that geniuses drew up the architectural blueprints, but imbeciles had to build (in tangible form), by trying to follow those directions. That metaphor reflects the relationship between the Inspired Ones who recognize the Universal Blueprints, and the level of consciousness in those that Wisdom has been passed down to.
You confuse the ideological distortions (largely imposed by the once all-controlling, authoritarian church-state and its equivalents existing beyond Europe) with the Higher Truths... and that is YOUR blindspot and distortion. Incidentally, KITAJ exposed where such a mindset comes from in his eloquent posts following the Ron Paul thread (from several days ago).
Beware self promoters, for they are ones covering up a lack of talent with glib sociopathic con jobs! It has been known for centuries most priests and other "Wizards" (see Mark Twain's The Mysterious Stranger) are charlatans of the first order. And yes including "pagan" priestesses like SR.
But thanks for proclaiming yourself above us mere mortals SR, replacing an economically based 1% elite with a holy/wholly delusional metaphysical 1% elite is no bargain in my estimation. Empiricism, secular creativity, and networked cooperative intelligence always trump self proclaimed nouveau oligarchs like you SR.
Sigh!
I remember as a child first learning to skate. There were people flying by me doing spins and skating backwards . Some could even do leaps land upright while skating like the wind and I could barely stay aloft falling to the ice times beyond count.
Compared to me they were certainly my betters when it came to skating and I would have been arrogant to the extreme to claim they had no more insight into skating then I.
Indeed. Skating is a learnt skill and the work that people do to gain skill should be respected.
Proclaiming spiritual superiority because you say you receive some kind of message or are naturally attuned to 'energy' because you are better or some how more sensitive is not the same.
>>Proclaiming spiritual superiority because you say you receive some kind of message or are naturally attuned to 'energy' because you are better or some how more sensitive is not the same.
Is it not ? You and others have all but admitted you have never had a spiritual experience. I have. How can you presume to deny me that experience and then whine that I would have it?
The fact is, contrary to the claims of one Denruter ,all persons and objects are surrounded by fields of energy. All of creation is energy and waveforms. I suggest it is arrogant to the extreme to suggest that only YOU can define what others can sense when you admit being blind to what they claim to be experiencing.
Oh and if you talk to the Monks and Shaman , they will tell you that to more greatly experience that world, training is needed and many spend life times in that training.
I would also point out I am still a lousy skater. 10 year olds can skate better then I can even though I have likely spent more of my life at it. Nor could I be another Einstein no matter how many books I read.
I have admitted no such thing. As a human I am as spiritual as the next person. I love, I cry, I experience joy and grief, I have empathy and sympathy, I live in the world. The oneness we feel with others and the world that is called spirituality is what it is to be human, nothing more , nothing less, and being human does not make it less wonderful or 'spiritual'.
And you don't know me or my life, so stop assuming what my experience is.
+ 1, one can be creative, artistic write poetry,love, respect other cultures, be an activist, etc, without having to believe there are pretend non provable forces, energies, or unknown invisible disembodied "spirit" beings, gods, goddesses, shouts, etc. The left and surrealists got that in the late 19th century through the 1950s, it's sad to me we have regressed in that regard, even though living in an information. age. I have hope in the young Gen Ys though, many of them correctly see all this spiritual junk as just pretend.
Disease states that were not recognised before some point in history eg sleep apnea before 1970, were still disease even though they had not yet been proven--lack of proof of a phenomenon does not prove its non existance.
The difference is science has specifically tested for the existence of spiritual phenomena and never found one scintilla of evidence for them. There is a difference between an empirical objective fact being newly discovered and thus not earlier tested for, and specifically testing for something and failing to find it because it does not exist.
Ontological category error fail!
As another narrow-minded, self-limited person, I must disagree with you about religion and spirituality. Your arbitrary separation of "Masters" vs. the rest of us does nothing more than create a division that serves no purpose. How do we distinguish a "Master" from an ordinary person? That's easy: the Master radiates qualities that believers admire. The rest of us don't see it--but that is a deficiency that is apparently in us. Certainly the extraordinary qualities of the "Master" are obvious to all but the most narrow-minded, self-limited people. But that would include most of the population--so I guess we are all dumb.
Religion has been the opiate of the people, not just in the West but in the East, too. How about karma, that doctrine that states evil-doers will get theirs in lives to come? Quite a reason for not doing much about evil-doers during this life, eh? Just as good as the myths of Heaven and Hell, anyway.
Spirituality is a means to a livelihood. It is a way to make a living. It promises much--peace of mind, extraordinary abilities, health benefits, and an unbounded sense of confidence that the practitioner holds all the answers to the important questions. But on the whole, it hasn't delivered much: theories of balance and harmony haven't done much to cure diabetes, spiritual retreats haven't helped lessen the brutal inequalities between rich and poor, and the endless breathing techniques have mainly served to make the adept good at...well, breathing techniques. Leave spirituality out of the discussion of social injustice. That subject can stand on its own.
I suspect that this article, more than most, will bring out differences in how each of us has chosen ideological frameworks to interpret the world. I know many who act, take action, based on religious interpretations of the world I don't comprehend (or agree with), but I will meet them on the streets. Spirituality, to me, includes ethics, emotions, and a sensitivity to the natural world. For me, spirituality is not necessarily "religious." To understand that, in the final analysis, the world we live in defies our rational, scientific analysis, that there is mystery around us like the notion of space itself--that is the essence of spirituality for me. Certainly, I believe many from all belief-systems can agree that we need a world revolution (more than an awakening, but an implied action in response to an awakening, and the author of the article understands that we should create a different economy, a just economy) to remove from power those who are destroying people's lives--and our planet. No simple matter. We can learn a great deal from the struggle of the Egyptian people, their ongoing fight to realize simple goals for a just, democratic society. The 'occupy' movement is giving us hope for how a path may be found through these treacherous times.
Thank you Stiv.
There is room for everyone - be we religious, spiritual, agnostic, and/or atheist. We can agree that this culture doesn't work for the majority of people -- and whether you are guided by a non-religious sense of ethics and moral code, or one one which is outlined by a religion or derived from individual spiritual practice -- in the end we arrive at a place of needing to reallocate wealth and be a part of the changes happening now. Let's respect each other and work together.
Masters, bah hum bug, even the sainted Gandhi severely mistreated his family.
"Gandhi and World War II
Gandhi never quite seemed to realize that the non-violence he urged against the British would have failed horribly if applied to the Nazis. He urged the British to surrender, and suggested that the Czechs and even the Jews would have been better off committing heroic mass suicide.
Even as late as June 1946, when the extent of the Holocaust had emerged, Gandhi told biographer Louis Fisher: "The Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs."
As the Japanese advanced into Burma (now called Myanmar), there was a real possibility of an Axis invasion of India. Gandhi thought it was best to let the Japanese take as much of India as they wanted, and that the best way to resist would be to "make them feel unwanted."
(In fact, the Axis was helping a buddy of Gandhi's to raise an army of Indians that would have seized the country from the Brits, but that's another story.)
Gandhi's funny sex ideas
When Gandhi was 16, he was having sex with his wife at the very moment his father died. The trauma seems to have led him to develop some odd ideas about sex. He thought married couples should only have sex three or four times ... in total. In fact, Gandhi credited his spiritual powers to his ability to avoid ejaculation, and one morning he flipped out on discovering that he'd had a nocturnal emission.
Gandhi also had an unusual way of testing his celibacy. As an old man, he would ask the local hotties to spend the night lying naked beside him. His wife was no longer temptation enough, apparently, and he described her as looking like a "meek cow."
Gandhi, family man
Gandhi's opposition to modern technology, including modern medicine, took odd turns. He didn't want his wife to take life-saving penicillin, because it would be administered with a hypodermic needle. He did, however, allow himself to be treated with quinine and even to be operated on for appendicitis.
He refused to allow his sons to get a formal education, and also tried to force his oddball sexual ideas on them. He so disapproved of the wife of his eldest son that the Mahatma disowned him. This son broke from the family and became an alcoholic. In rebellion against everything his father stood for, Harilal Gandhi even announced at one point that he had converted to Islam.
The Mahatma also had trouble with his second son, Manilal, who had an affair with a married woman. Dad made the matter a public scandal and pushed the woman involved to shave her head. Manilal was also briefly exiled from the family for lending money to fellow black sheep Harilal.
Gandhi and the bathroom
In the movie, Gandhi is seen fighting with his wife over her refusal to clean the latrine in the ashram.
This just scratches the surface of the one of the strangest elements of the Mahatma's makeup ... a fixation on bodily excretions that he pushed whenever he could on his family and disciples.
Gandhi seemed to be almost as interested in Indian sanitation as he was in Indian freedom. At his ashram, he designed latrines and ran latrine drills. "The bathroom is a temple," he once said. "It should be so clean and inviting that anyone would enjoy eating there."
Gandhi also took a great deal of interest in the bowel movements of his friends, and life at the ashram was marked by daily enemas. He also experimented with diet, to see what effect different types of food had on excretions.
Weirdest of all, it seems he also made a habit of drinking his own urine.
Sources:
·Legends, Lies & Cherished Myths of World History by Richard Shenkman
·"The Gandhi Nobody Knows" by Grenier (Commentary, March 1983)
·http://www.mkgandhi.org/articles/boer_war.htm for name of Natal Ambulance Corps
·http://www.kzn-deat.gov.za/tourism/battlefields/conflict/spioenkop.htm for Spioenkop, verified at http://www.classicafrica.com/portfolio/threetreehill.htm
·http://www.progress.org/gandhi/gandhi08.htm and http://www.mkgandhi.org/biography/wrldwar1.htm for Indian attitudes on World War I
·The rebel in the Gandhi family, The Hindustan Times, July 19, 1998; verified at http://www.discovery.com/stories/history/messy/messy3a.html
·http://www.tristagenova.com/humour/gandhi.htm
http://www.triviahalloffame.com/gandhi.aspx
Most saints stink of shit like ordinary humans once the myths are unraveled. Any true critic of the barbarism in top down hierarchical relations ought to strive to unravel all myths even those of "spiritual" heroes!
How does it feel to shit on Gandhi and his grave? You are a disgusting human being, IF that. I guess I should feel in good company, that you feel moved to do a hit job on Gandhi AND me... it's certainly worth something.
The point is these ascended masters you bow before and pretend to be part of are ordinary human beings and we are the better for knowing that, and removing the veil of false consciousness. Marx was wrong about many things, but he was right to confront mystification wherever it reared it's ugly head as being soma promulgated by the ownership class that distracted people from struggle.
BTW nice job putting yourself in the same grouping as Gandhi, while imperfect he DID things at least, delusions of grandeur much?
Once again you LIE and misrepresent my position. I am not coming from ego. I see myself as a mesenger and I quote Truth from MANY sources, and have studied mystics and masters to look for the common threads among the diverse teachings left behind by Adepts. To share that understanding is not the same thing as projecting myself into the league of those thus inspired. I do this work out of altrusim, while I believe you to be a military plant operating in this forum. Therefore your motives are not the same as mine. You work for the dark side... only egos as bent on destruction as yours see a need to damage others or malign their life work. Ego sees life in terms of a pyramid, if I gain at your expense, then all is well. Spirituality doesn't work that way; however, I will call a fraud a fraud and defend myself against False Witness. Your consciousness level reveals NO iota of growth or evolution from that of the witch hunters of centuries ago. Proud of yourself?
And by the way, I am not going to devote the rest of my night to another one of these endless attack sessions. As I've made clear, I''ve got plenty ON FILE, and have already chronicled several hundred pages of these... always the same tired memes, always a repeat of the same tired lies, ad nauseum. Sure, the names vary, yet strangely enough, the commentary does not. I've heard it all from: Martian Bachelor to Shawn Berry to Photius to Scribe to Katrine Lachette to Gardenerorcal, to Peter Pike, to Guitarist, or Ron or the "new" Pinchway or Phantom or Denruter, etc. I watch you guys and am well-aware of the name changes. This is only a partial list of the names you use. That Raven/Read Between/Native Tongue/Lucky You and all HER screen names should show up to join the attack fest is more evidence of the fluidity of names used by the ATTACK SQUAD.
Astute readers paying attention in this forum must find it curious that the dominators like Curious Steve or Ardent 1 "just disappear" and suddenly, a new legion of names show up to dominate the threads in EXACTLY the same manner. Like Greg R, the farmer, who's posting all day on these threads.
All use the Goebbels strategy of repeating lies again and again. Unfortunately, to some, these, rather than the Truth, manage to stick. I am one person trying to make a difference up against a legion of broken spirits, paid to target persons like me... and those I frequently defend. Your karma will find you... regardless of your callous view of all things spiritual.
On file, yes you keep saying that, do you consider COINTELPRO to be ascended masters too SR?
SIgh!
Classy, just like your hero you sycophantically suck up to, the self proclaimed ascended one SR!
I am taking the liberty of posting KITAJ'S responses to similar attacks on the Ron Paul thread. Perhaps forum visitors who did not catch his insights there, will appreciate them here, as they continue to apply to this "discussion."
Posted by Kitaj
Oct 31 2011 - 12:50am
The experiential and experimental evidence that human beings can operate at levels of Consciousness-Intelligence light-years beyond conventional ego consciousness is stacked up to the proverbial ceiling! And yes, evolution does supercede historical episodes and epochs, which are subsets of a larger movement toward Universal Enlightenment. And as I said, I have had many discussions about this over 37 years, so I know that there are people who know exactly what I am talking about and dont react like you do. Engaging in the deep spiritual process benefits all sentient beings throughout the Cosmos in ways you cannot even fathom at present! ______________________________________________________________ That you think that your limited conceptual framework of reality is the end-all and be-all of existence, that it accounts for ALL the inputs to human history and evolution, is Arrogance Cubed! I suggest you listen again to George Harrison ___________________________________________________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAADkgJBxhY _____________________________________________________________ and the Moody Blues album "A Question of Balance" which epitomize the 60's attempt to re-introduce self-transcending spirituality to the West. In denigrating me, you are denigrating everyone who ever tried to act as a conduit of higher Light, and that involves some of the greatest human beings who ever lived, many of whom I accept as teachers and heroes. ___________________________________________________________- Well, it's your karma, and when you die, you will have to deal with it. I actually have compassion for you and regret even starting this conversation that so freaks you out __________________________________________________________ You have shown me that here in 2011, it is still impossible to have a frank conversation about humanity's entrapment in the Emotional Plague and about the full spectrum of human evolutionary possibilities, and that is a cause for sadness. _________________________________________________________ But as I said - and I am sure you missed it and wouldnt act on it anyway, for the "material" side of things, see Zeitgeist: Moving Forward, about the creation of a Planetary Resource Management and Production system that eliminates markets and money. I simply think that achieving this will involve spiritual and psychological healing. But the Zeitgeist Movement is totally scientific, though I hear it is being roiled by ego conflicts. And so it goes...........................................
Posted by Kitaj
Oct 30 2011 - 10:57pm
To all of you above, not just Morticia. _________________________________________________________ And the fact that Nazis exploited bits and pieces strip-mined from the esoteric tradition and totally misread them invalidates thousands of years of entheogenic shamanism and esoteric spirituality? The Nazis were in fact a major mass outbreak of the Emotional Plague, as was the Inquisition. So yes, when sick people exploit spirituality, or science or anything, they use it for domination. One could say that humanity is lurching around trying to recover from a mass sickness. And psychedelics/entheogens - along with many other things - have shown themselves to be unbelievably powerful transformational tools and healing agents. ______________________________________________________________ What is actually happening is the movement beyond race, religion and gender to a universal spirituality. There is as we speak an entheogenic Revolution going on and I assure you that thousands of people know EXACTLY what I am talking about and manage to talk about it without ANY negative reaction or misunderstanding. In fact, in my circles, everything I have said here today is totally routine! What I have expressed here are only the basic preliminaries. ____________________________________________________________ No one is stopping you from validating all of this yourself. And no one is preventing you from doing so. But Nazis? Racism? Wow - unbelievable reaction. 2011 and we STILL cant have a radical discussion about spiritual evolution, the epitome of human existence! I am stunned. As for the Emotional Plague that the indigenous people call wetiko or an equivalent, I left the links above if you care to even glance at an in-depth look at the idea
Posted by dreamjoehill
Oct 30 2011 - 5:21pm
"My point is that spiritual evolution is the main driver of history." A point that I am diametrically opposed to, and one that is in any case purely subjective as "spirituality" itself is purely subjective.
·
Posted by Kitaj
Oct 30 2011 - 11:17pm
The key phrase is "opposed to" because it points to the fact that the inputs to human evolution go far, far, faaar beyond Mr. Karl Marx's theory of history, and that upsets YOUR applecart and de-thrones you as all-knowing. Marx's truth is a partial truth, a subset of much larger truths. You are reacting to the fact that existence goes beyond your little conceptual framework of reality. Too bad, it does. Thankfully. Without spiritual ecstasy, love and Light, existence becomes a dark mortal prison. ________________________________________________________________ Spirituality is not merely subjective, in that we all have the same basic psychophysical instrument, and the neurogeography of the spectrum of consciousness has been extensively mapped, a process that is ongoing. And scientific in that it involves evidence based upon experience and experiement. Your argument presupposes that the only inputs to consciousness can be explained by fundamentalist materialism with its skin-encapsulated ego in a dead material cosmos, which again, is being totally deconstructed as we speak. ___________________________________________________________ And again, if you had ever had a deep experience of transcendental consciousness-Light, you would NEVER react as you are reacting. All because your ego cant handle learning from someone else who has spent more time studying the ideas in question. And that is immature.
Yeah, you right wing lunatics love to cry Free Speech when deploying hate speech to damage the credibility of decent folks. But if someone talks about spiritual things, you think you have the right to shut them up? You remind me of the mentality that posted the target symbol and soon after Gabrielle Giffords ended up shot. Your idea of freedom is YOUR right to shit on everyone else. You understand nothing higher than the law of the jungle. Now, by all means, return to fondling your gun collection.
Sure, Progressives love their guns the way you do, but feel a need to bludgeon those who see the world on non-linear terms, or Goddess forbid, explore psychic turf beyond the parameters of established authoritarian religions or systems of ego-based logic.
I hope your Viagra is made in China and malfunctions.
You are wasting your good words on a deluded cat lady I am afraid. :(
Seconded! - The poor Fake Rose is on one of her paranoid sprees. Occasionally she's interesting and funny, but too often only tiresome. Her "spirituality" has missed the core of spiritual creeds throughout the ages: The Golden Rule of Ethics - Ethical Reciprocity. But she keeps trying, and maybe someday she'll get there. - After her "spirituality" stops being in the way of her being spiritual. :-)
+ 1 Denruter, these New Age quackers do at least as much damage as actual infiltrators. :( x 10000000
While they are praying, or soothsaying, or whatever it is they do, when they get around to doing anything, others, namely me, are delivering propane canisters for space heaters so our occupiers can stay alive in the freezing cold. Because it isn't ascended masters who bring the goods it's every day people paying attention to reality, and keeping movements for justice and sustainability iN THIS WORLD strong.
Sigh!
>>Siouxrose to "guitarist": "How does it feel to shit on Gandhi and his grave?"<<
This is a learned hatred, IMO. Communists have been attacking Gandhi for at least 90 years. Even though someone may call himself just "left wing" or "anarchist" or whatever, some of the comrades' hatred for Gandhi rubs off on these people, it seems. I do not believe that these people have studied Gandhi's life or his work or writings anywhere near as much as they have read up on Gandhi-bashing. It's like the deniers of climate change: they know so much more about why it's a hoax than anything about what the scientists themselves have to say.
To "guitarist":
It's interesting that you so readily launched into a gratuitous, preemptive mudslinging on Gandhi when neither the author nor any of the commenters had said anything about Gandhi before you did.
I don't hate Gandhi, I think he has much to teach us about non violence. My point was more general, and Gandhi was just a data point, that creating a hierarchy of ascended masters beyond reproach is a form of grave mystification and self delusion. Always question your heroes the most if you don't want to fall into mental ossification and decay:
http://www.george-orwell.org/Reflections_of_Ghandi/0.html
P.S. anyone who has followed my postings here knows I criticize Bolsheviks endlessly as a left anarchist who considers the massacre of anarchists at Kronstadt by Lenin and Trotsky to be a grievous crime.
Then you seriously need to read more about what Gandhi had to say and was struggling for, for most of his life. It is NOT JUST non-violence. If you seriously think you are a "left anarchist", I CHALLENGE you to show that Gandhi's views on many things were NOT closer to anarchist than any other philosophy. Seriously, and I use the words "challenge you" consciously here, as I have no doubt that any serious study about Gandhi's views would make anyone wonder if he wasn't an anarchist after all, but tried to blend his spirituality as well, because that was so natural for him and for the culture he came from. I hope you will take me up on my challenge. And, at some point down the road, I hope you will have the courage to share your views once again.
You are really, really, REALLY missing the point, the point wasn't to hate on Gandhi in general, it was a narrowly focused point, that despite his great accomplishments Gandhi's shit stank like anyone elses, the attack wasn't on Gandhi so much as it was on the insufferable self promoting mystifier SR. Though as a left anarchist I WILL say I prefer Kropotkin to Gandhi, as I don't have much stomach for "spiritual" mystification.
I can think someones shit stinks and they are a mortal ordinary human, AND that they have things to teach us, my mind is big like that!
Don't ASSume I haven't read Gandhi BTW I have, and admire his sustainable village concept, non violence, and courage as in the salt march, I still think the spiritual and sexual repression aspects of his though is utter bullshit though!
>>guitarist: "...despite his great accomplishments Gandhi's shit stank like anyone elses...Don't ASSume I haven't read Gandhi BTW I have, and admire his sustainable village concept, non violence, and courage as in the salt march,..."<<
I am amazed that you have read ALL of these and yet had time to do an analysis of Gandhi on so many aspects. Never mind that the one thing you had to quote after all this scholarship was a caricature of him with the clearest of agendas, floating around all over the internet, and that was from the book by the neo-con Richard Grenier, whose ONLY claim to fame is his attacks on Gandhi, and who first published his review of the movie "Gandhi" in the Jewish magazine "Commentary" in 1983.
And all of this to make your general point where "Gandhi was just a data point". When questioned, you also managed to find another objective assessment by Orwell. Very impressive! My bad, assuming! (Never mind that finding something to attack Gandhi with is one of the easiest things to do on the internet and there's a whole industry out there.)
It's really not difficult to find stuff to smear Gandhi, the man. All one has to do is to pull bits and pieces from Gandhi's own autobiography and other writings and put them together. And then there's the internet, and that stuff takes a life of its own, replicating like crazy.
On another comment, you seem to call for backup to attack someone who mentions energy field and healers:
>>guitarist: "Where are our loud mouthed Marxists when we actually need them to mock this Hegelian pre 1850s mindset?"<<
I DON'T THINK that my original guess about the source of your views on Gandhi and that it is ideologically based was too far off the mark at all, even though you might have branched off into a different ideology!
There are various reasons why Zionists, communists, Marxists, Hindu fanatics, British imperialists, etc., would want to have a go at Gandhi. It is easy to understand and oh-so-predictable. And it is easy to spot where a particular criticism is originating from.
This does NOT mean Gandhi should be above criticism. But equally important are the motives and the basis for the attacks.
"Jewish magazine?" WTF kind of anti Semitic bullshit is that? One can be against the Zionist oppression in THE STATE of Israel without naming out all Jewish people, many of whom oppose Israel's crimes against Palestinians, shame on you!
MY source of MY views are my own, I know it may be shocking to you, but some people are able to derive original thoughts such as admiring Gandhi's principles of non violence and vision for sustainable communities, while finding the "spiritual" aspects of his thought, and sexism of his personal life to be a bad example for people. Starry eyed hero worship does us no favors I assure you, it's the worst sort of mystification and false consciousness imaginable. I can see you are looking for people to true believers in Gandhi, well news flash I think being a true believer in ANY ideology leads to ossification of the thought process and is a recipe for an intolerant totalitarian world view. ALWAYS question, learn and evolve your thoughts as you age, if you become stuck on one world view you are already dead inside IMO.
BTW my views are left anti statist the very opposite of vanguardist Marxism, my influences include but are not limited to Kropotkin, Emma Goldman, Noam Chomsky, Murray Bookchin, Arundhati Roy, Howard Zinn, Edward Abbey, EF Schumaker. I even like to mix it up with right wing Libertarians sometimes. In short I learn from a wide variety of thinkers, and am a true believer in none. Sorry that disappoints the true believers out there, or isn't doctrinaire p.c., Marxist, anti Marxist, anti Marxist, Gandhian, or "spiritual" enough for some of you, you will just have to deal with my iconoclastic nature.
Sigh!
>>guitarist: "Jewish magazine?" WTF kind of anti Semitic bullshit is that? One can be against the Zionist oppression in THE STATE of Israel without naming out all Jewish people, many of whom oppose Israel's crimes against Palestinians, shame on you!""<<
It was only a matter of time before you had to resort to this kind of BULLSHIT! There was a magazine called "Commentary" (don't know if it still exists), and it was properly described as a Jewish magazine, although articles and columns with a clear Zionist bent also used to appear. Calling it a "Zionist rag" would have been inappropriate, even though articles by Zionist sympathizers used to appear on it. And there are many Zionists who are pissed off about Gandhi for their own reasons. So you can take your fake outrage and SHOVE IT!
Naming out a publication by the race or culture of the people who publish it is bigoted bullshit. What if I talked about Obama dismissively as the "black President," as though that were automatically a negative, in the same way you see a Jewish magazine as automatically negative? The reason to dislike Obama is NOT because of his race, it's because he is a war monger and tool of the financial elite. The fact that you named Jewish people as a whole and did not specify those committing Zionist state crimes is a red flag you are an overt anti Semite, SHAME!
I notice you wholly avoided the substance of my post and focused on the shorter paragraph BTW.
FAIL!
More fake outrage!
I focused on the shorter paragraph because that's an accusation that I take fucking seriously! And you insist on repeating the same fucking accusation again? What the fuck is your problem? The reference to the Jewish magazine was to draw attention to the writer - a neo-con, Zionist supporter with an agenda.
If I had called that magazine - which you obviously had never heard of - a Zionist publication, instead of a Jewish magazine, we would NOT be having this fucking exchange in the first place. I tried to be technically correct based on what I knew. I don't go around labeling everything as Zionist when I don't know enough. But a Zionist sympathizer writing something in a Jewish magazine is NOT all that unusual. And referring to a publication as "Jewish magazine" simply means that it is not a mainstream, general interest publication like Time or Newsweek.
I know you are being fucking dishonest here. My response is just to expose your continuing dishonest attempt here.
This nonsense accusation by "guitarist" has gone on long enough and far enough!!!
Here is my final post on this matter. I don't feel I should be explaining why I referred to some publication as a "Jewish magazine" as, in my mind, it was clear that it was a special interest type publication and there are lots of them that are of interest to various communities, but not so much outside of those communities. If "guitarist" still insists on repeating this accusation, that is clear proof that he cannot read and comprehend, or, as is most likely the case, he is just being DISHONEST, pretending not to see the context.
********************************************************
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_(magazine)
>>"**Commentary** is a monthly American magazine on politics, Judaism, social and cultural issues. It was founded by the American Jewish Committee in 1945. By 1960 its editor was Norman Podhoretz, a liberal at the time who moved sharply to the right in the 1970s and 1980s becoming a strong voice for the anti-communist left. The magazine was one of the leading voices of neoconservatism by 1976, and remains so today, although in the 21st century it has less influence than before. Benjamin Balint says it was the "Contentious Magazine That Transformed the Jewish Left Into the Neoconservative Right". Historian Richard Pells concludes that "no other journal of the past half century has been so consistently influential, or so central to the major debates that have transformed the political and intellectual life of the United States."
History
Commentary was the successor to the Contemporary Jewish Record. When the Record's editor died in 1944, its publisher, the American Jewish Committee (AJC) consulted with New York intellectuals including Daniel Bell and literary critic Lionel Trilling. They recommended the AJC hire Elliot Cohen (1899-1959) to start a new journal. He had been an editor of a Jewish cultural magazine and was now a fundraiser.
Commentary had the mission of being a nonpartisan journal focusing on Jewish affairs and other contemporary issues--a sort of Jewish Harper's, only more scholarly. Cohen designed the new magazine to reconnect assimilated Jews and Jewish intellectuals with the broader, more traditional and very liberal Jewish community. At the same time Commentary would bring the ideas of the young Jewish intellectuals to a wider audience. It demonstrated that Jewish intellectuals, and by extension all American Jews, had turned away from their past political radicalism to embrace mainstream American culture and values. ...<<
No grave, he was burnt on a funeral pyre. I thought that was common knowledge.
Indigenous Peoples lived here for 12,000 years, some say 25,000 years, based upon the world view of Spirit. The values of cooperation and reciprocity are even today central to traditional Native lifeways. Yet, the American world view of Science has brought us to the point of economic and ecological collapse. That fact cannot be ignored, explained away, or rationalized away.
I do NOT post here under a variety of screen names simultaneously BTW, that is another SR paranoid cat lady LIE. I have been banned in the past for supporting a general strike, and being pro right to bear arms. I have ONE screen here now guitarist, get it? I am glad BTW that CD no longer bans people for being pro general strike or criticizing Dims, or being anti gun control, I believe the occupy movement has had a salutary effect on the CD staff as to how militant huge swaths of the left are now, GOOD!
Guitarist/Denruter & Pinchy Way all WORK together. Your posts like to damage others. You know NOTHING about spirituality, and to link it with making a livelihood is a low blow. I have given away 1000% more of my time, scholarship, and energy than any $ earned. It's not about that. Those metrics do not apply. Spiritual people understand that the real gain is experienced through an increment to humanity as witnessed in an improved living conditions for all sentient beings. Those who work for profit (or answer to the mighty buck) could never understand what motivates others... like me.
The ignorance and enmity I've experienced on this site are a very sad testimony. These responses always emerges when the topic is violence specifically directed at women, or when ecologically sensitive folk speak of Earth as the Great Mother. It shows up when the subject matter moves out of the safe, ego-based zones of intellect, into the nether planes that transcend the intellect.
DROSERA: Christ was an obvious Master, and he stated that the way to the Father (the kingdom of heaven) was through him, which meant, through following his teachings. Yogananda was a Master, so was Moses, and no doubt The Buddha. The average person never achieves that level of consciousness, and that's why Masters come to this world to impart their understanding and HOPE that humanity catches on. I hardly self-identified as being a Master, yet I quote their works frequently on this site.
The analogy I provided about the designer of blueprints with those who must follow them on a tangible level holds.
The usual attackers are about as brave as our "heroes" dropping drone ordnance onto sleeping citizens in Afghanistan. I answer to a Higher authority and find the brazen need for these primitive egos to seek cause to injure my reputation as indicative of their Neanderthal level of consciousness. Since they misrepresent my views and motives, I feel no reason to reason with them. Their attacks (and commentary) are about as compelling as Fox News and its hate radio equivalents, and in my view, this group intellectually mirrors those sources... as they pretend to lean Left.
No true Progressive would feel a need to denigrate the spiritual, even if it was not their cup of tea. Tolerance of other is a cornerstone, just as non-authoritarian approaches do not regard one realm of experience (or strategic approach) as competitive with aother. This group instead identifies with a need to demonize spiritual pursuits the way the Right demonizes things like Acorn, feminists, and liberals. The ugly reflex to attack what is not within their own experience reveals an insidious intolerance for OTHER. IT's character assassination, and it's been aimed not only at me, but at LOTS of the activists and writers that CD publishes. These individuals are here to foment division and knee-cap not only the Left, but any voices that share a new vision. I do qualify in that department, and every time I venture to share things of a spiritual nature, the same creeps show up with the same FALSE allegations. A lot of people in this forum are Good Germans, which is sad, but true.
"Guitarist/Denruter & Pinchy Way all WORK together. "
For the record I am not working with anyone else here, nor do I suspect the spiritual clique here of working together either. People do not have to be conspiring to have agreement on some issues.
There is treatment for paranoia you know, if you get it treated it will save you the trouble of keeping files on us as well as you have claimed to do in the past.
I, nor Noam Chomsky, need "spiritual" delusional to protest U.S. war crimes committed with drones.
Fail!
When you show up together, and repeat the SAME lies/memes, and do this on a REGULAR basis it certainly MORE than suggests that you're working together. It brings to mind the time two of you were discussing my showing signs of "paranoia" as two attackers went to WORK, back and forth gossiping about me, and planting lies and disinformation from 1 AM until 5 AM... in a series that must have spanned 20 posts. Right. Make me a subject of interest, invert the meaning of my posts, falsely define my life work, and repeat these measures over the course of more than 2 years (so that the SITE administration tells me what's going on) and then suggest it's that I suffer from delusions of grandeur, and/or need treatment for paranoia.
You shits stop at nothing. You're shameless in your disrespect for Truth and other human beings, particularly those who ARE doing something to raise the state of mankind. I hope the violence you project, in the forms of targeted character assassination comes back at you. Soon.
Really, The State of Mankind?
Is your opinion of the 99% that low?
Of course it is, she hopes to rule OVER us from a high plane riding a crystal sphere or channeling messages from a crystal pendant, or with "visions" from a crystal ball or some such.
Apparently SR never read Dr. Faustus on what a dangerous combination power tripping and "magick" aree together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Faustus_(play)
The sad thing is, if I made the EXACT same points I always do, and said I CHANNELED THEM FROM VENUS, SR, would luv them.
But never mind me, I am just a little person of the unenlightened 99% and not a member of the silver robed ceremonial inner circle!
Sigh!
it's because you have a penis :wink:
I mean , seriously, how many times has SR made ad homs on male physiology on this thread alone?
Argue with yourself. The fact that you see spiritual growth as competitive with Progressive ideals and the actions these give rise to demonstrates YOUR failure of imagination and need to malign an area that has always been of interest to human beings. Ever hear of "Man does not live by bread alone?" Once there's food on the table and shelter for the night, the human being looks up to the heavens to pose the big questions about life...
Why am I here?
What does it all mean?
Is death the end, or is there something beyond?
Is there a Creative Principle?
ETC.
Just because you're such a dullard who pretends you care about human rights and/or The Revolution, to the exclusion of all else, hardly makes the great mysteries less compelling to those of us who think AND feel.
The fact that so many gang up to invert my posts--which are intended to RAISE the ceiling on conjecture--is very telling. Your group TRULY projects the same mentality as that found in the Middle Ages, a mentality that will tolerate no questions about life itself. For all the castigation I hear against religion, you sound as authoritarian as the Inquisitors who believed that only they had the right to determine the limits of debate.
By calling those of us who see outside those parameters all sorts of names, and the fact that a few of you are still maintaining this "hit squad" (I'd hardly call it a debate), says more about YOU than me. Fortunately, those who have been reading my posts for years understand that I am quite sincere in my beliefs, and I share them with the hope of expanding consciousness.
With no credentials at all you call what you don't understand bull shit, woo woo or whatever else, and in so doing, hope to harm the reputations of those of us who respect these teachings. Then you have the nerve to suggest that you are Progressive? You're "LEFT" the way the Ron Paul contingent is left.. you want a tough Daddy figure to tell you exactly what is thus and so, as he controls the contours of your world. YOU are a prisoner of your own limited cognitive web... and about as creepy as a spider.
And your claim that there's no history around Christ is ludicrous... I guess unless a penis speaks, nothing counts.
The most creative people in the 20th century were atheist Dadaists and Surrealists:
André Breton (1896-1966) Andre Breton
French surrealist
To speak of God, to think of God, is in every respect to show what one is made of.... I have always wagered against God and I regard the little that I have won in this world as simply the outcome of this bet. However paltry may have been the stake (my life) I am conscious of having won to the full. Everything that is doddering, squint-eyed, vile, polluted and grotesque is summoned up for me in that one word: God!
-- André Breton, Surrealism and Painting, footnote (1928)
]
As is clear from your posts, you dish it out in equal measure to what you receive. Pretending those that reject "spirituality" are somehow less progressive than you are. Insisting that you have all the answers and that others are less highly evolved than you. Returning every put-down ante with a "raise you ten" reply. Rooting for karmic retribution against those who disagree with you.
Jeez, if "spiritual wisdom" is what you have--don't let me catch it. It seems tainted with hatred and pettiness. Can't imagine the Jesus you talk about giving the middle finger to doubters the way you are always doing.
pinchyway: You wrote "Those who are into 'spirituality' (religion) are most always barely concerned with ... the material need to equalize classes ... Very few of them are social revolutionaries"
That may be true, but the same can be said for those who are not into spirituality and religion. Revolutionaries are always rare.
One doesn't need to be religious to be motivated to work for justice and peace, but for many people, their religion and spirituality is an important source of strength that allows them to continue to confront established powers, even at the cost of great personal sacrifice (including death).
There are many posters here on CD who predictably lash out, often viciously, anytime an author dares to mention religion or spirituality, unless the author's purpose is to ridicule religion, in which case the congratulatory snickering commences. I share the opinion that organized religion is often more destructive than helpful, but to ignore the positive contributions that religion and spirituality play in many people's lives is closed-minded. These critics don't seem to realize that no one who emanates hostility and contempt is ready to help lead the world to peace.
What bullshit do you think I was eating?