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The Pope and the Anglicans
God is decreeing to begin some new and great period in His Church,
even to the reforming of Reformation itself. . . .
--John Milton, Aereopagitica
If it had happened a few centuries ago it would have been part of the Counter-Reformation. Occurring now, it was still pretty significant. It was the news that Pope Benedict XVI had invited members of the Anglican Communion to abandon their church and join his. His invitation was addressed to Anglicans who are uncomfortable with gays and women as clergy.
It was a generous invitation and it was extended just 10 days before Halloween which is of no particular significance since that is only one day before All Saints day, a day that, unlike the Pope's invitation, has nothing to do with spookiness. The invitation was a blanket invitation to Episcopalians, as they are known in the U.S., to abandon the Episcopal ship and set sail with one captained by the Pope.
In an October 20th press conference at the Vatican, Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that something called an "Apostolic Constitution" had been created that would enable Anglican faithful and their clergy to enter "into full communion with the Church." He described it as a "single canonical model for the universal Church which is adaptable to various local situations and equitable to former Anglicans in its universal application." He explained that the Pope hopes that the new enrollees can "preserve those Anglican traditions precious to them and consistent with the Catholic faith. Insofar as these traditions express in a distinctive way the faith that is held in common, they are a gift to be shared in the wider Church." (The gift to which he was referring includes neither women nor gays.)
It is gratifying that those who have deep-rooted opposition to gays and women in the priesthood have been welcomed to the company of the faithful who believe as they do and do so in the name of the Lord. The invitation is proof to the recipients that what was perceived as bigotry by those from whom they parted, is not bigotry at all but good sound theology. Inviting the congregants to join is not, however, the most amazing thing about the Church's new openness.
For many centuries celibacy has been the watchword for those entering the Church's priesthood. The reasons for it are diverse and it has in many cases been more honored in the breach than in the observance as shown by the hundreds of millions of dollars paid out by the Church in settlement of claims involving priestly pedophilia. Notwithstanding those episodes and tales of priests who secretly father children, the Church remains adamant that priests should live a life of celibacy. It is also aware, however, of the economic hardship that will be imposed on a married Anglican priest whose congregation moves whole cloth over to what was formerly the opposition, if he cannot join in the exodus. Accordingly, the new plan permits Anglican priests who are married to be ordained as Roman Catholic priests. They will not, however be eligible for promotion to Bishop or higher ecclesiastical office such as Cardinal or Pope, a minor drawback since few priests attain those posts.
The possibility of a married Anglican priest becoming a member of the clerical opposition came as especially good news to the Church of the Good Shepherd, a parish in suburban Philadelphia. The Good Shepherd has been in a state of warfare with the Episcopal Church for many years. According to a report in the NYT, for the last 17 years the parish has refused to allow the local Episcopal bishop to come for a pastoral visit or confirmation. Because of the tolerance the Church has for Anglican priests (as distinguished from gays or women) even if married, the Church of the Good Shepherd will be able to take its priest, with it. Bishop David Moyer who has led the church is married and father of three children. Although a Bishop and, therefore, not authorized even under the new rules to be married, he hopes that he may be grandfathered in. (Taking the Bishop along will be easier for the congregation than taking along its real estate. In 2009, the Episcopal Diocese of Pennsylvania sued to take over the church building that has an estimated value of $7 million and only the Lord knows who will win that lawsuit.)
The newfound openness shown by accepting disaffected Episcopalians into the Roman fold may be just the first step. If the Pope wants to make a home for other people who don't much care for gays and believe that women should be treated differently from men, he may want to reach out to the Taliban. Their attitudes are not as dissimilar as one might hope.
32 Comments so far
Show AllThe Church will crumble soon enough.
It is the ultimate anachronism. And please. Let's not speak about the wonderful Catholic Workers and activists.
I'm sorry. You can't be against women's reproductive rights, and tie yourself to a nuclear warhead, go to jail and think you are making a difference.
Yes, folks. I am including the untouchables such as Father John Dear. If you wish to do peace activism, why do it while paying homage to the empire of all empires.
If Jesus must be dragged into this. Didn't he say you can't serve "God", and serve empire at the same time. Why aren't these good Jesuits, et al, at the Vatican with protest signs against their own empire.
It puts me in mind of certain Jewish 'peace' groups who are still looking for a two state solution. That Israel should embrace 'Jewish' values and become the ethical state that they know it should be. A light unto nations. Same as these priests and their Church.
You simply can't have it both ways. You can't work for the empire of all empires - the empire of the soul - and claim to be a liberator. By being part of the Church, you are speaking volumes. Not to mention, rendering unto Ceasar what is God's. Or. Your own. Like your body. And humaness.
They play it safe as far as their position within their own empire is concerned. And rail against the American empire. To me. That is the height of hypocracy.
Physicians - Heal Yourselves of the need for the meta father figure. The patriarchy of all patriarchies. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.
It is a harsh world out there. True. I can understand after years of being taken care of.....Medical insurance, meals and housing. The freedom to travel around the world and many perks. I have known a few priests that are activists. But they don't know what it is like to be on their own in the world. They can't connect to the rest of the society. Because they are distanced from it.
They counsel couples on how to have a Godly relationship/marriage. Enough said.
I only reference Fr. Dear because he is a darling among many. I have heard him speak and enjoyed his stories. But there is a piece missing. And this is true of any member of any cult. It is being in love with Jesus and following a leader.
One can only be creative within a very limited scope when looking to leaders - even when you believe the leader to be the son of God. If it weren't for Jesus, would these men be acting differently? Do they really need to believe he was God incarnate in order to work for peace in the world?
Many have worked for peace and justice without believing in anything other than their own intelligence and empathy and compassion. Is that not enough?
Rave over. I know i will offend people here. Although it is not my intention.
The bottom line in all religious organizations is the belief in 'original sin'. The mythologies have done more harm than good. Most religions are fear based. And our civilizations are based in these myths and beliefs. And they keep us as children who are afraid of ourselves.
This Church is afraid of the feminine. Of human sexuality, in whatever form it takes. Of true connecting between humans. Of the connection of each individual to something that transcends themselves. They want to play God. This is delusional beyond the pale. And, from my own point of view, anyone who works for this institution is part of that delusional system.
I simply felt compelled to say something here. I am always amazed that this instition/empire, with its emperor who speaks for the logos and wears ermine capes and silk robes, still exists. And is taken seriously. In the twenty first century.
It is a tribute to medievilism that is never ending.....And so it goes.
Sioux Rose
READY TO TRANSFORM: Excellent post. A lot of people just don't get it. They think tradition is something good and beautiful, and bypass the prejudices inherent to these (patriarchal) traditions. You sure nailed the pope! Patriarch of patriarchies, and let's face it, any patriarchal religion is essentially misogynistic. It lends spiritual cover to all the heinous acts against women in the world. Where is the church on rape? On the way today's porn desecrates the female, MOTHER of LIFE? Where is it on militarism and empire?
And I love his conclusion: invite in the Taliban (since they also operate on the principle of superiority to women & gays). I'd add more but yesterday's article on the young girl gang-raped in Cal prompted me to express myself intensely. Any belief system that turns women into second class citizens is accessory to the crime of matricide which IS taking place in too many regions of this maimed world.
Sioux....Good to hear from you once again.
Understood.....
In the mean time the theology of liberation continues to simply precipitate from the midieval aspects of institutionalized theologies.
“Love and Fidelity meet, Justice and Peace embrace.”
(Ps 85 :10-11)
Now, now, let's not rush to judgement!
If you were a high-ranking official in a spiritually totalitarian regime held together by spit and superstition, and your traditional methods for acquiring and controlling membership-- miracle, mystery, and authority-- had been slowly rusting away since the Enlightenment... why, YOU'D be trolling for bigots too!
· Yr Obd't Servant
Wrath Slinger just needs some rich Anglicans to pay for paedophile priests.
As an Anglican (that's Canadian for Episcopalian), I will be curious to know if membership includes full communion. (Not that I'm planning to convert any time soon -- I believe women and LGBT people should have full rights within the church.) Some time ago I was Matron of Honour in a Catholic wedding and not allowed to participate in communion with the wedding party because, horror of horrors, I had not been baptized in the 'Catholic' church. Maybe there will be mass baptisms -- could get interesting -- sit back and watch the show!
The reference to "mass baptisms" triggered this frivolous tangential thought:
Several years ago, after my brother-in-law received a preliminary report that his doctor had detected a heart murmur that might indicate a serious condition, the BIL Returned to the RC Church in a big way. He wasn't exactly an apostate, having worked at a private religious school for decades, but he didn't go to Mass, raise their two kids Catholic, etc.
All that changed in a murmuring heartbeat-- which turned out, BTW, to be transient and not the sign of doom for which it was first mistaken. My BIL didn't just rejoin the local humdrum diocesan church-- he took up with a church in the city known for the extraordinary enthusiasm and politically liberal cast of the local congregation.
My sister obligingly accompanied the BIL to holiday high masses-- and of course, the younger of their kids was promptly put in instruction class to receive the sacraments-- my then-teenage niece point-blank refused. Anyway, the holiday High Masses in particular go on for hours, and feature untypical "extras" such as incorporating baptisms for the newest infants and converts.
My poor sister came to loathe these drawn-out affairs. "The 'Kiss of Peace'!" she would wrathfully exclaim at Christmas or Easter dinner-- when the BIL was clattering pots in the kitchen. "It's not just shaking hands to the people sitting next to you! It's, like, this ORGY where everybody in the damn church slobbers all over each other! You can't get away from it! I BELIEVE in 'peace', but who needs all the GROPING?"
She would balefully check to see how many infants were on hand, just to estimate how many quarter-hours of her life would bleed away during the "baptism" phase of the show. It still cracks me up whenever I think of it-- all of those dewy-eyed, rapt parents having one of the Moments of their Lives. And, perhaps during an accidental moment of almost-utter silence, wondering where that sound of TEETH grinding was coming from.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Organized superstition
Christ is weeping !!
Christianity today, as it is practiced , should more rightfully be called Paulinism.
What Christians accept as edict and as tradition and as right and as "Christian Values" has more to do with what Paul taught and the Roman Empire desired then what Jesus SAID.
Mary Magdelene was one of the true founders of the Christian movement after the death of this "Jesus". In the bible she was the first person that jesus appeared to after he "rose from the dead". A woman. A harlot.
This was something that could NOT be tolerated. The MAN must rule. The Divine can only be revealed through the mouth of the MAN.
This totally contrary to what Jesus is said.
The teachings of this Jesus Christ were corrupted within decades of his death so as to ensure the MAN ruled and the woman made subservient.
I am certainly open to the opinion that Pauls teachings distorted.
Questions arise however. Was he open to women in the Church as leaders and has Priests? Was he open to the ideal of a nom hierachal approach to the spreading of the Christian faith and of the Church that would follow?
The early Gnostics chose Church leaders by lot, drawing the names from a hat with anyone of the faith having their name in that hat. They also chose new leaders with regularity so no organized Priesthood of power and advantages could arise. This was the truest to the teachings of Jesus.
Paul was opposed to that wishing an organized Hierachy where authority delegated from a Priesthood.
Sioux Rose
GW NORTH: Excellent post. You have a great capacity to see past ceremony into the heart of a thing, just about ANY thing, as seen in your many posts in this forum. Thank you for being a witness to Truth.
So, you're uncomfortable with gay clergy in the Anglican church. So, you convert to the Catholic church where 85% of the clergy, including Bishops, Cardinals and the Pontiff himself are gay. -It simply staggers the mind!!
Yeah, but the thing is-- unless you're, like, an ALTAR boy, it probably won't even come up!
· Yr Obd't Servant
I care what the Pope says and does. I care about the impact of Pope Benedict[ Arnold's] authority and how it increases the suffering and death of hundreds of thousands if not millions of women and girls every year throughout the world, mostly in underdeveloped nations. Not only girls and women are harmed by the ignorance and arrogance of this Pope but the men who love the women they have married and see their loved one die due to the Pope's ban on reproductive health care family planning clinics. The husband and wife who are deeply in love and attracted to each other but due to pregnancy complications cannot risk the woman getting pregnant. I care that the Pope expects them to abstain from sex, the only pleasure many poor working people have,while sleeping next to each other for the rest of the woman's fertile life. The Pope, with his many luxuries and pleasures, will not lift the ban on contraception, sterilization,and abortion even to save a woman's life.He will not allow any discussion of lifting the celibacy vow because then he would need to lift the ban on contraception ect.Pope Benedict knows that the Anglican married priests probably will keep their method of birth control a secret like most Catholics in the first world who have access to reproductive health care. Very few Catholics give a damn about the poor people living in Catholic third world countries who suffer more children than they can provide for( one of the reasons their country remains in a third world status) and some women suffer permanent injury and some die due to a lack of reproductive health care for women.I care what the Pope says and does because this Pope teaches lies about God that portray God as bias, unjust and cruel.
Sioux Rose
GENIE: Your post is refreshing for its empathy and honesty. Too many in America, and a few in this forum, are so habituated to the idea of "individuality" that they cannot recognize that voluntary belief "in the Pope" or otherwise does nothing to touch the issues YOU wisely relate. The church is misogynistic, and its early leaders probably understood what my friend Lynne once said, "Good sex is a straight shot to God." God forbid enough people got it, there'd be no need for the church; so just like the tribe observed by Joseph Chilton Pierce ("Magical Child," the book chronicles his account, a la Margaret Mead) that insists the mother abort her link to her own child at the tender age of two so that the child not develop BEYOND the need for the tribe, MOST communities make use of covert rituals that do likewise. And indeed these stunt human progress and possibility.
Bennie16 realizes on some primitive subterranean level, that the Catholic church is in the last throes of its checkered life. He's just trying to broaden his base. The theological perfection obviously isn't as important to him and his myrmidons at the Vatican as the political perfection of the invitees - no gays, no women, yada yada.
The Eastern Orthodox priests were already included in the flock - ages ago. They can marry. They just don't get invited to the really good parties - would that be acceptable to the Anglicans? pfpfpfpf!
The nugget questions are - Is the Host literally the flesh of Christ?, Is Christ God or just the Son of God?, Is Christ human or divine? and Was Mary a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus? ( no kidding) You'd expect that acceptance of the Catholic canon would be a priority requirement.
But no - just don't be married, female, or LGBT.
Interesting religion....
Naaahhh, this latest is just a way to keep the Vatican behemoth from starving to death.
"If you were a high-ranking official in a spiritually totalitarian regime held together by spit and superstition, and your traditional methods for acquiring and controlling membership-- miracle, mystery, and authority-- had been slowly rusting away since the Enlightenment... why, YOU'D be trolling for bigots too!"
rAmen.
"If the Pope wants to make a home for other people who don't much care for gays and believe that women should be treated differently from men, he may want to reach out to the Taliban."
Maybe Herr Ratzinger should also reach out to the TaliBaptists.
This is a late post and it may be wasted, but here goes. I'll post it again when applicable at a later date.
So many progressives are pissed off against the Catholic Church and Christianity as a whole, and in a way, rightfully so.
But this isn't the fault of Jesus. God has given us free will. The institution of Catholicism, being an institution and made up of human beings, was corrupted almost from the beginning. It all happened in 325 BC when Constantine made the Catholic Church part of the Holy Roman Empire. Like all institutions, in the final end, it always seeks it's own perpetuation through control and the institutional church uses religious absolutes to control the flock. Case in point; denying the right of priests to marry; abortion; birth control; homosexuality and the covering up of the pedophile scandal. The church, being an institution, must survive above all costs. This is the mind of all institutions. But it is not the mind of Christ.
I think the reason why so many liberals are so pissed off at the Catholic Church is that so many appreciate the mind and radical teachings of Christ, but see the hypocrisy in much of the Catholic Church and Christianity as a whole. But this does not nullify the teaching's of Jesus. Again, the church is human and an institution, blinded by the human ego.
By the way, "original sin" is the dysfunction of the human ego,.....period, and hell does not exist. This was created by the myths of the Bible written by human beings. God forgives all. We are all broken people in a broken world. We just need to see the wounds in the world as the wounds of Christ. Through the incarnation of Christ, we are the eyes, ears and hands of Christ, and thus it is left to us to do the work of Christ, healing a broken world.
But it is hard to follow the teachings of Christ without a community, so we have the "community" of church.
This is where the dilemma presents itself. I stay Catholic because I believe in Jesus Christ, the radical liberal who preached against all institutions of power. I think Christ really wanted us to come together in a community of democratic citizens, questioning the abuse of power at the top, unjust governmental rule.
Sioux Rose
STEPHEN: I agree with many of the observations/points you raise. Some of us need community more than others being the only differential. I see Jesus as a High Teacher and Avatar, and I totally concur that the church has been quite selective about what's been done (or espoused) in His name. If The Christ returned in a way that made his identity unquestionable, the church would have A LOT to answer for.
Sioux Rose: Boy, you are so right!
Another Pope-bashing column by Brauschi. It's getting a little boring. If he hates the Catholic Church so much, why bother to care what it does? No one is asking him to follow their laws.
He and Maureen Dowd make a great couple.
The Catholic Church will survive until the end of time, just as she has done for 2,000 years, faithfully proclaiming the love and life of Christ. The Pope is Christ's vicar on earth..our spiritual leader beginning with St. Peter (the Rock) after Jesus ascended into Heaven; the historic successions a matter universally accepted fact. Those, who by their own ignorance of history and hard-hearted individualism, fail to look into (study) the true teaching of the Catholic Church will wallow in pathetic chaos, grasping at the latest New Age explanation for all God's creation, never really understanding the exquisite beauty of Truth and it's wonderful gift of.....
Peace
Oh-oh, another romanticist. Hmmm, that word contains "roman". Heh, a doubly-fit term, then.
The Church changed a lot after the first couple of or few centuries, for during the first few, apostles could marry and have families, the only requirement being that they be faithful to speading knowledge of the teachings and ways of Jesus. Apostle Peter was married when Jesus appointed Peter as head apostle, and, from what I've read, some other first apostles were married and Paul didn't dislike sharing some of his personal time with women or a woman, after his war on the first Christians.
The list of popes that the Church maintains doesn't include Peter and I wonder why.
The Church also has priests who are homosexual, just that they're supposed to be inactive, sexually speaking; and there's nothing wrong with this. Practicing homosexuality is arguably something Jesus would instruct to not do to be one of his disciples, but he certainly wouldn't ostracize a homosexual who's not sexually active.
Women being ordained priestesses and deaconnesses? This apparently was permissible during the early Church, the first centuries of it.
Tons of doctrine? This wasn't present during the early Church.
Mysoginy? It's been a human characteristic far longer than the Christian faith has existed and in many places, plenty of different religious systems.
From what I've read, women started agriculture and (I guess) thereby provided fuller nourishment than men, who only hunted animals and (I suppose) caught fish. In the sciences we're often taught that men are stronger than women, but there's a problem with this perception. The sciences have far more males than females and not because women are weaker or less interested in the sciences. Mysoginy is probably a factor, but when we take one female and one male, then we find starkly different statistical results. We find women are stronger on a per capita basis or evaluation. When I was still doing my bachelor's degree in math., before switching (unfortunately) to computer science, I got to see that the strongest in the math courses were women and "man" were they strongest. The guy with the highest grades achieved maybe 82% (we weren't graded A, B, C, etcetera, but by %, and I often didn't do half of the assignments, leaving a max. possible 85% achievable for final score or grade since the assignments were strong enough to merit 30% of the final grade, in some math. courses). Meanwhile, four of the female students (and the rest of us were mostly males) all had an easy enough time of averaging around 95%, or higher; and they surpassed the content of the courses with full permission to do so. During pure and applied sciences studies in college, one good prof. in algebra asked the class who we thought was stronger in math., males or females. No one replied; I guess we all realised that we didn't know the answer. He then said that women are stronger and explained the statistical skewing that I just mentioned.
It had never dawned on me to even wonder who was stronger in math. I had never seen anything misplaced about women doing what I was doing. I like gardening. So do women. Let's get together and then cook up some excellent recipes.
For a little time, I wondered if it was good for women to be ordained ministers, until hearing one provide a sermon, which convinced me that it's GOOD.
However, ordained ministers in Christian churches should not be practicing homosexuality. To be homosexual, but not a practicing one, is okay; however, I don't think Jesus would endorse those who practice their homosexuality.
He was not an extreme conservative, but nevertheless warned against liberalism, having left it understood that liberalism can be perverted, corrupt, wrong, and he was right about this. We find examples with so-called "liberals" and "progressives" in the U.S., today, f.e. They spew out as much hypocrisy as the people they flame against. Their chosen Dem. Party is war criminal as much as the Repub. Party, if not worse. They pretend to vote for "lesser evils", thereby admitting to vote for evils, while never being able to defend their use of the "lesser" qualifier. They lie ... en masse. Satan, once Lucifer, liberally opposed the grandeur of God and got the boot for this act; and whether this really happened, whether it's metaphor, or not, it's still an example of liberalism gone rogue, amok, ....
The Church hasn't always heeded Jesus' warning about liberalism, for treating women as lesser than men is to be stupidly liberal, and then the idiots who do this choose to conserve these stupid ways. That's obstinately, stubbornly stupid liberalism!
I prefer a female minister who is true to the ministry, than any male idiot who only pretends to be an authorised minister just because the churches are too incompetent and negligent in their ordinations.
What's important is to be true in the ministry, which means true to the teachings and ways of Jesus. And this, btw, means that no ordained ministers should receive or even seek high incomes, for then they're definitely not with Jesus; they're then with pig capitalists.